TROMBONE-L Digest 1556 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re[2]: Valve Trombone question by "Dave Hall" 2) Re: New member by "John McVey" 3) REMINDER - LIST SHUTDOWN by Listmonitor Trombone-L 4) Re: REMINDER - LIST SHUTDOWN by Earl Needham 5) Re: Euph update - by "J.c. Sherman" 6) re:lead pipes by "John Palmer" 7) New Year by Bob Koester 8) Re: tuning stuff: a little (lot) longer by "Richard Human, Jr." 9) LIST OUTAGE by Listmonitor Trombone-L 10) Happy New Year! by Mike Coyle >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:00 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:40:53 -0600 From: "Dave Hall" To: Cc: Subject: Re[2]: Valve Trombone question Message-ID: <199912311345.IAA20854@p1fed3.frb.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Thanks for the lead but my number 36339 is outside the range of the Reynolds list. I guess it is possible that they left the 'A' off the serial number and it is listed in the F.E.Olds - Reynolds list. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Valve Trombone question Author: at dalsmtp Date: 12/30/1999 4:35 PM Dave Hall wrote: > I have a valve trombone with the inscription 'Roth-Reynolds Inst. Co. > - Cleveland, Oh' and a serial number of 36339. I am trying to > determine when it was manufactured and something about it. Can anyone > either tell me something about the trombone or point me to web sites > that may have some information. Thanks. Dave, I would look here http://www.musictrader.com/serialnos.html under Reynolds. Hopefully the Roth-Reynolds used the same serial numbering system as the regular Reynolds. Eric Swanson >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:01 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 08:54:34 -0500 From: "John McVey" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: year10@ratedg.com Subject: Re: New member Message-ID: <85256858.004C70EE.00@m-ms03.frb.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Welcome Laura, Asking this list to recommend a specific trombone for you is a great idea because you will most likely get many good responses with good ideas. I hope this is one of them. Rather than recommend a specific horn, my suggestion would be to find a music store that has a variety of major professional-level makes of trombones available. These makes include Bach, Benge, Conn, Edwards/Getzen, King, Shires, and Yamaha (and a few others I'm sure I've unintentionally omitted). You should pick a horn that feels good to you, easy to hold and easy to play, is in your price range, and matches the general style on which you plan to concentrate. By that, I mean if you are mainly interested in concert band or orchestral situations, you may be more interested in a larger-bore tenor (.525 - .547 bore), perhaps with the F-Attachment. If you are more interested in smaller groups or jazz situations, you may want a smaller horn (.490 - .508 bore). As an example, I play in a variety of groups, including a large concert band, a couple of swing bands, a Dixieland band, and a small jazz ensemble. I use a bass trombone (Bach 50B2) and a large bore tenor (Bach 42k) in the concert band and one of the swing bands, and I use a small-bore King 2B for the more intimate jazz groups. My preference is for Bach and King, but choose the makes you like. There are many marvelous players who use all professional makes of horns. My best advice is to find a professional horn that is in your price range and feels good to hold and play. If you are not sure of what you are looking for, check around for a good professional trombone teacher, and ask his/her guidance. It would also be a good idea to take a few lessons from a professional if you get the chance. Our situations are somewhat similar. I played up through a couple of years in college (1971) and then put it down for 21 years. Since I started back 5 years ago, I have occasional lessons from the best teachers I could find, many of whom are on this list (David Fetter, Sam Burtis, David Sager, Jeff Adams, and a couple of others). I also signed up for masters classes whenever I could, and since I live in the Baltimore/Washington area, Ive attended the Eastern Trombone Workshop for the last three years and traveled to New York twice to spend the day at Mannes College of Music listening to some of the finest players in the world. What this has done for me is to keep expanding my knowledge of what is technically possible and what the trombone can and is supposed to sound like. That, first and foremost, keeps me humble, but it also helps me keep the sound picture in my mind of what I want to sound like. Good Luck, hope this helps, John McVey http://mcveyj.digiweb.com/mcveyj/ Laura on 12/30/99 10:18:12 PM Please respond to year10@ratedg.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." cc: (bcc: John McVey/IRM/FRBOG/US) Subject New member : I have been on the list for a week or so and thought I'd introduce myself and ask a question or two. I played throughout jr/sr high school and was pretty good at the time! :-) However, I didn't pick up a trombone for 15 years after that! I recently started playing again in our homeschool advanced band. My son is also playing at a beginning level. I have contacted our community/college orchestra about possibly playing with them. I have missed playing my horn sooo much over the years, but have been busy having kids and doing the mom thing. We have been renting an instrument, but I would like to purchase one that would suit both our needs if possible. We have a student model that we both play right now, but because I know I will stick with it(even if he doesn't) I'd like to upgrade. I'd appreciate any thoughts on brand/type of horn that may work for us--reasonably priced, as we also have a flutist, clarinetist and budding horn player. Thanks! I enjoy reading the list and have learned more theory in the last week than I did in six years of band! Laura Baxter >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:02 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 08:13:53 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: REMINDER - LIST SHUTDOWN Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just a quick reminder - the trombone-l will shut down at 12:00 noon CDT, 31 December, 1999. It will remain off-line through Monday, January 3, 2000. If you do not receive a message on Monday stating that the list is online, please contact me via e-mail - tsks@cjnetworks.com. Wishing you all a safe and happy New Year's Eve, LM --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:02 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:31:33 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: REMINDER - LIST SHUTDOWN Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991231073133.0083aab0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:13 AM 12/31/99 -0600, Listmonitor Trombone-L wrote: >Just a quick reminder - the trombone-l will shut down at 12:00 noon CDT, 31 >December, 1999. It will remain off-line through Monday, January 3, 2000. > >If you do not receive a message on Monday stating that the list is online, >please contact me via e-mail - tsks@cjnetworks.com. > >Wishing you all a safe and happy New Year's Eve, > >LM After waiting for around 6 years, the date is upon us. I really wish the list would be active throughout, as it would be a comfort. Here's goes nothin'... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446 W103d 12.700 (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:03 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:30:49 -0500 From: "J.c. Sherman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Euph update - Message-ID: <386CBE18.87ED1B47@clevelandopera.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple thoughts: First, many have been mentioning poor intonation on Besson Euphs. I'm a little startled. True, I know many trombonists who naturally place the responsibility for good intonation on the instrument, rather than on the player. I've never had issues with the Bessons, but I have spent a good deal of time with them in the past. I currently play a 1932 Conn double-bell euph, which, despite the added "growth" is a fantastic euph (and a terrible trombone). It's intonation is naturally worse than anything made now, but a wonderful sound. But I've never been fooled into thinking it cannot play in tune. That's my problem. Second, I've played several Hirshbruners. They are very nice, with tremendous build quality, and play well. Their problem is with value (they're very expensive) and their sound doesn't have the character I look for. J.c. Sherman TonyC789@aol.com wrote: > Hey Guys (+ Gals), > > Thanks so much for your input. With all the expertise out there, I've > narrowed the field to three: > > Yamaha 642 - Rap is: Nice Sound Good Pitch > Willson 2900 - Rap is: Better sound than Yamaslammer, 6th partials sometimes > trouble > Besson 697GS - Rap is: GEORGEOUS sound BAD Pitch (6th partials) > > Oddly NO-One recommended the Hirsbrunners. Since My tubas are 'brunners, this > surprised me. > > I'll keep youse posted. Thanks again!! > > Tony Clements >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:03 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:38:40 -0500 From: "John Palmer" To: "Trombone List Contributions" Subject: re:lead pipes Message-ID: <001b01bf539c$bb3b6a20$fe488d18@kico1.on.wave.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Eric. I do mean Callet...I'll blame my mispelling on the font. John Kingston >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:03 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:50:44 -0600 From: Bob Koester To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: New Year Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991231095044.00730170@mail.spidertel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Best wishes to all for a healthy, prosperous, safe and happy New Year. Regards, Bob Koester _______________________ bob koester mediation services, inc. bkoester@fixbusinessdebt.com >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:03 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:31:34 -0500 From: "Richard Human, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: tuning stuff: a little (lot) longer Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit HNY All, > From: "Aaron Roth" >> And then, what >> note should you tune your horn to, Bb or A? And if you tune it to A, how do >> you know if you have the slide in the right place? It doesn't matter, really. I'd rather that we say we tune *with* an A or a Bb, rather than *to* it - because when you think about it - we should be using the tuning pitch as an central agreement of where a given pitch will live - added to our knowledge (through dedicated practice and listening) of our instruments' and our *tendencies* - we tune with the pitch given. If you pay enough attention - and play enough ensembles, you know right off the bat when the tuning pitch is offered whether it is low, high, or somewhere in between. Some of the best players I've had the pleasure of sitting next to hear the pitch and move their tuning slide a few millimeters in or out without even playing a note. I though it was a bit brash, but they nailed everything. They hear that this oboist is pitching us at 438 (not uncommon) and pull out a bit. When you walk into the concert band you push it in a bit. That's what the tuning slide is for. Of course - the rub in tuning when you realize that the pitch given is completely arbitrary, and will have very little to do with the rest of what follows. It's a starting point - a reference - not an absolute. The trombonist of merit will factor in the tendencies on the fly - the better the trombonist - the faster they factor. Somewhat related... On my horn (Bach 42 w/retrofitted & modified Thayer - Elliot mp) there are a few notes that ring the bell when I play them "right." I say "right" because sometimes I have to play them intentionally flat or sharp - depending on the context of the orchestration and what others around me are doing. When I say "ring" I mean that after I finish playing the note - if there is silence afterwards - you can hear the bell vibrating that pitch. Fifth partial Bb in fifth position, fifth partial A in second, sometimes sixth partial Eb and E as well. Since I do a lot of second playing - I live in that range - I really know my horn in that area. I don't have to think very much to put the notes where I think they are going to be. It also helps to sit (a) beside a great player and (b) in the same section for an extended period. When I am tuning in orchestra - I play A where it will ring for me, then, knowing where A "usually" is - I adjust the tuning slide so that it does so where I think it should - that place where I have learned to play internally in tune on the rest of my instrument (or at least close...as my quartet would say!). If it's a different ensemble - I use fifth partial Bb. I rarely use 1st position, fifth partial D just because I don't like lipping pitches. It changes the tone too much and screws with ensemble sound. I also don't like my fifth partial C - on my horn it's just weird. I'd rather play it in sixth given the chance - but that's rare. Each player and instrument is different - what I do only works for me - obviously. Given my druthers - I'd play all day with low brass players because we listen like mad - we have to. That's why when we hear the CSO low brass section play alone they sound like gold. They know themselves - and they know each other probably better than their own spouses. No woodwinds to get in the way of the overtones - there's lots of room up there for resonance. It's a great sound. A good composer or arranger will take advantage of the low brass' ability to make overtones by scoring the strings and woodwinds correctly - using them to support the over tones, not "make" them. This also applies to the trombone-tuba section itself. When playing chorale passages - the bottom three parts can often play a bit more strongly than the principal (depending on what sound the conductor wants and the section has decided on). The principal can support the overtones made by the lower three parts - and his tone will be amplified and carried right along *if* the writing is conducive and the section is good. Both don't happen very often - most of the time there are strings and woodwinds cluttering up the atmosphere, requiring the principal to push the line out a bit. But in the case of the Brahms chorale, for example - it happens magically. I read somewhere that (was it NY?) some major low brass section really worked on their sound - they played chorales before each rehearsal and performance to lock in and focus. Our quartet does this - as do brass quintets I play in. It's taking the tuning pitch that extra step - allowing us to not only feel out the intonation - but kind of like cats when they sniff noses to see where the other has been - we get to know each other again at every rehearsal. Kinda got off topic.... but I like talking about this stuff - it's the meat of what we do. I wish I had heard about it and started thinking about it much earlier than I did. :-) Happy new year all - take care of yourselves. Richard >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:04 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:50:30 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: LIST OUTAGE Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In approximately 10 minutes, the list outage will begin. A similar message will be posted upon restoration of service. LM --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks >From ???@??? Sat Jan 01 20:18:04 2000 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:58:40 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Happy New Year! Message-ID: <199912311800.MAA07118@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just thought I'd try to sneak in before the machines shut down and wish you all a Happy New Year! Be good, have fun, and don't drink and drive! Mike