TROMBONE-L Digest 1545 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Trombone euphemisms by BUNTING N W Dr 2) Luggage on airliners by Earl Needham 3) Re: Service Bands in the midwest by "Brooke and Ryan Ringnalda" 4) Re: Service Bands in the midwest by "John McVey" 5) Re: Service Bands in the midwest by BOWLSBY@aol.com 6) RE: Service Bands in the midwest by Eric Burger 7) Music Appreciation by Howard Weiner 8) Personal:Jack Bailey by sabutin@mindspring.com 9) RE: Service Bands in the midwest by "Jeffrey Diehl" 10) Air Travel (again) by Atlbrvsnt@aol.com 11) Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1530 by DOUGNCYNDY@aol.com 12) Re: embouchure issue by Mike Coyle From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:02:07 -0000 From: BUNTING N W Dr To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: Trombone euphemisms Message-ID: <17FD488B2E65D311B4EE009027AA4C3BB27F@PCGSERV1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Also, "sludge-pump" "kid-shifter" ... apparently wrt the G-bass bone with it's 8ft slide in the front of a marching band. (Denis Wick mentions this in his book "Trombone Technique" > -----Original Message----- > From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com [mailto:Atlbrvsnt@aol.com] > Sent: 16 December 1999 03:02 > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Trombone euphemisms > > > Here's a non-verbal euphemism i remember a friend using when > we were in first > grade: > The music teacher brought in instruments for us to all blow a > note on every > once in a while, and she walked in with a trombone case one > day. Another boy > in my class said, "I know what that is! It's the..." > He then moved his right arm back and forth very rapidly :) > ~Tommy > From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:30:23 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Luggage on airliners Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991220073023.0425d424@yucca.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just got this from Avweb, it's sure interesting. Earl >...FLIGHT ATTENDANTS WANT HELP, TOO >Flight attendants, meanwhile, say the new Customers First still puts >them last. In 1998, the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) asked >the FAA to set an industry-wide limit on carry-on baggage to fight >increasing numbers of injuries caused by heavy, oversized baggage. What >travelers drag onto planes has reached laughably dangerous proportions. >AFA's list includes a stuffed moose head, a mini-refrigerator, a set of >free weights and a big-screen TV. Some airlines have taken steps to >allow fewer carry-on bags. Continental, however, known in the business >as "Carry-It-All-On" Airline, is installing even larger carry-on bins. Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446 W103d 12.700 (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:42:06 -0500 From: "Brooke and Ryan Ringnalda" To: Rug129@aol.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Service Bands in the midwest Message-ID: <199912201442.JAA07652@mail2.mco.bellsouth.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Josh, I can give you some info atleast on the Navy, but it is basically true for all of the branches. Military musicians are very versatile and capable perfomers. They have the ability to play a military ceremony in the morning and turn around and play a big band gig that afternoon. The armed services offer the GI bill, which matures in 8 years and can be used for any form fo education, and they offer tuition assistance while you are on active duty. But be prepared to work and not have that much time to go to school. Our band does over 900 gigs a year. The Army also has a college loan repayment program I believe. You can expect to audition and pass, then be accepted by the program. be surr BEFORE you sign the dotted line. You will have to attend boot camp of some sort, anywhere from 6-10 weeks in the Air Force and Navy to 10-12 weeks in the Army and I believe longer in the Corps. After basic you will attend the Armed Forces School of Music, (Unless you go Air Force) for up to 6 months and then reprt to your first band. Advancement is hard anywhere but not impossible. Good players and "sailors" (sorry everyone else) are rewarded as they deserve. As far as playing ability you HAVE to play at a high level. As a trombone player rough guidelines may be: A range from the trigger and pedal range up to high F Ability to read alto, tenor, bass, and TREBLE clefs fluently Good sightreading chops Great musicianship Just being able to play the horn "decent" isn't going to get you a job anywhere. The job market is scarse out there and these are fairly good jobs. If you want more info atleast on the Navy Music Programs let me know and I can give you people to contact. Its a good job and good oppurtunity to travel and play your horn. Take care. Sliding along, Ryan Ringnalda Navy Band Jacksonville ---------- >From: Rug129@aol.com >To: "Trombones and related issues forum." >Subject: Service Bands in the midwest >Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999, 10:18 PM > > I had a long email going but i decided no wanted to read all that so here is > the short point. > > I am looking for info on military bands. I would prefer playing with jazz > groups and small ensembles. I play a variety of brass instruments and I may > even be able to play some of them at a decent level. > I want to know what I can expect in pay, advancement oppurtunities, and other > incentives. Can they help with college?What about existing student loans? > Would I be able to go in as an officer or would I have to sign up as > enlisted?(HS diploma and 2 1/2 years in music program at a university) Should > I consider reserves or ROTC rather than going straight in? > > Who are the appropriate people in the midwest to talk with? I did talk to > someone who was supposedly an officer recruiter for the midwest area and he > said that most musicians who go in as officers have a doctorate(i took that > as a big load of bull). > > Basic Basic Point > Who can give me incentive money? Who will pay me well? Who Should I talk to? > > Josh Reynolds > Bass Trombone, Tenor Trombone, > Tuba, Euphonium, Trumpet, Shells, > and Didgeridoo > From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:49:55 -0500 From: "John McVey" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Service Bands in the midwest Message-ID: <8525684D.0051765B.00@m-ms03.frb.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi Josh, I retired from the Navy about 6 years ago, so I can't speak specifically about the environment now. However, there are certain constants that don't change, regardless of the time or branch of service. To enter the miltary as an officer in any specialty nearly always requires a degree of some kind. Since the musician field in every branch of the military is so tight and competitive, I expect the officer recruiter you spoke to was not far from wrong. A basic college degree in music wouldn't even get a second look, and a master's degree might possibly, depending on skill level, but not likely. There are just too many applicants with advanced degrees and/or professional level experience. Potential recruits may audition for the service bands, and the service bands have websites you can check to see what positions might be open. In general, successful applicants go into the military as enlisted grades E-5 or E-6, and progress from there. All services have programs that will help you finish your college degree. One thing to remember, the musician field in all services has always been very competitive and difficult to get into, simply because there are so many applicants. If you get the right breaks, and are very, very good, then you might have an advantage, but without any competitive edge such as someone inside who knows you and wants you, you compete for the few positions with everyone else. My advice to you is to stay in school if possible and get your degree, but begin auditioning as soon as possible, and keep it up. Play as much as you can in as many different styles as you can, and keep your eyes open for openings. Here are some links to check. http://www.bupers.navy.mil/navymusic/index.html http://www.bolling.af.mil/band/ http://www.army.mil/armyband/ Good luck, John Rug129@aol.com on 12/19/99 10:18:33 PM Please respond to Rug129@aol.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." cc: (bcc: John McVey/IRM/FRBOG/US) Subject Service Bands in the midwest : I had a long email going but i decided no wanted to read all that so here is the short point. I am looking for info on military bands. I would prefer playing with jazz groups and small ensembles. I play a variety of brass instruments and I may even be able to play some of them at a decent level. I want to know what I can expect in pay, advancement oppurtunities, and other incentives. Can they help with college?What about existing student loans? Would I be able to go in as an officer or would I have to sign up as enlisted?(HS diploma and 2 1/2 years in music program at a university) Should I consider reserves or ROTC rather than going straight in? Who are the appropriate people in the midwest to talk with? I did talk to someone who was supposedly an officer recruiter for the midwest area and he said that most musicians who go in as officers have a doctorate(i took that as a big load of bull). Basic Basic Point Who can give me incentive money? Who will pay me well? Who Should I talk to? Josh Reynolds Bass Trombone, Tenor Trombone, Tuba, Euphonium, Trumpet, Shells, and Didgeridoo From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 11:28:16 EST From: BOWLSBY@aol.com To: john.mcvey@frb.gov, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Service Bands in the midwest Message-ID: <0.31a69484.258fb320@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it really that competitive now? I had 4 years of proivate trombone lessons and played in the California State Honor Band when in high school. While I have been good at classical and jazz, I never have been a very good soloist. When I auditioned for the Air Force in 1977, I was in a hallway of a concrete building, played long tones and scal;es and lip flexibility stuff...the audutioners heard me just warming up and I was accepted without further audition. I ended up playing 1st chair bone in the SAC HQ band in Omaha (Offut AFB) for 4 years. It was a great experience for me on many levels. Other than the leader and assistant leader (Lt Col & Captain, no one else in the band was an officer. There were some decent players though...they were the kind who just spent hours upon hours playing. We were all enlisted and started at E-1, went through basic training and left the service 4 years later as an E4. There were only a few who had a music degree and only 1 with a masters (he was pretty worthless as a percussionist I might add). You had to be good to get in the door but I am surprised that it has been so competitive as described. It is a pretty good gig though :) Jeff Bowlsby From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:47:03 +-100 From: Eric Burger To: "'Rug129@aol.com'" , "trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu" Subject: RE: Service Bands in the midwest Message-ID: <01BF4B2C.B1915840@fra-pci-lak-vty214.as.wcom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Josh, here's my perspective on your questions: I am looking for info on military bands. I would prefer playing with jazz groups and small ensembles. I play a variety of brass instruments and I may even be able to play some of them at a decent level. (snip) It is most important in any of the service bands that you play what you play best - however, there may be a greater need for one than another, and it might end up being financially beneficial to play your second. You had better be willing to play that one instrument a lot, though.. I want to know what I can expect in pay, advancement oppurtunities, and other incentives. Can they help with college?What about existing student loans? (snip) the pay is good ($16000 a year + benefits to start) depending on the service, advancement can be quick or slow, and all services will pay off student loans and assist you with tuition while on duty - this is the best part... Would I be able to go in as an officer or would I have to sign up as enlisted?(snip) without an advanced degree and pretty good conducting & arranging chops, you will be enlisted, however at a higher rank than most entering. with a degree, you can work your way up to warrant officer or commissioned officer... Should I consider reserves or ROTC rather than going straight in?(snip) No. Who are the appropriate people in the midwest to talk with? I did talk to someone who was supposedly an officer recruiter for the midwest area and he said that most musicians who go in as officers have a doctorate(i took that as a big load of bull).(snip) he's right. Here's the warning: If you are very, very, very good, you may be able to get into on of the special bands(audition information is on each web site), But, like most of us, you can join the army, Air Force, navy, or marines. The marine recruiters are probably the best at getting you the accurate information, army worse. Every service requires an audition, which entails scales (10%) a prepared solo grade 3+ (40%), and sight reading (50%). All aspects of your playing will be evaluated (tone, technique, posture, etc.) and if your score is high enough, you will be offered a position. Some service recruiters will try to tell you that to get in you have to join first in another job, then audition later. this is fraudulent enlistment tricks, and anyone who lets me know the name of this recruiter will get this fool fried...Don't enlist without the guarantee of the job position (i.e. Trombone Player) Basic Basic Point Who can give me incentive money? Who will pay me well? Who Should I talk to? Everyone has the same pay scales, however the army offers faster promotion, then navy, then marines and Air Force. this is because the army has a much bigger program, and more places to go... the navy and marines really take advancing the quality of the player, but their schedule will make attending school while in difficult. Air force has the best quality of life (Facilities, housing,) but their slow promotion rate can be frustrating. Please remember, though - while the services offer good pay and incentives, you should never join just for the cash - serving your country will ask a lot of you, and if you are not willing to give freely of yourself, you will be miserable, and detract from the important mission these bands do... SSG Eric H. Burger United States Army Band, Europe (Heidelberg, Germany) From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:14:52 From: Howard Weiner To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Music Appreciation Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991220191452.2c879fc8@mail.privat.toplink.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I got the following on another mailing list. These are apparently quotes from papers or exams. No trombone content, but too good not to pass on... ++++++++++++++ The melody was plaid for the most part... This piece got my attention from begging to end. Before [the piece] started, all of the women excited the stage... The horsachord was used in this piece. The [melody] includes chronic scales... [The piece] began with pluckola by the violins. It starts... maderato. The piano is in sink with the voice... When the orchestra begins, they are pianissimo, and retarded. ...and then the tenor vices join in. It sounded similar to Russian music such as the Nut Cracked Suite. At the same time, Bernadette Peters was dancing to the melodic hormone and instrumental rhythm... There were schwartzandos... Blasts from the timothy drums are heard... Five strikes of barbells followed... Then the two instruments play in unicef... The mood is calm and Gentile throughout. The flute plays a credenza... The orchestra played ... throughout this whole arraignment... It would be better to see the opera perfumed in Italian. Stravinsky has been dubbed the greatest composer of the 20th century. His works have influenced composers for 3 centuries. Robert Schumann ... wanted to become a virtuoso but became a composer because of a disabling finger. Haydn was fascinated with flatuates... Bach's music was mostly in homographic texture. [Tchaikovsky] was composed when he was very young. Chamber music is music written for 2 to 8 players. It does not need a composer. The four basic vocal ranges are "bass, mid-bass, middle range, and tweet." The concert was one of the best I have ever heard. It was my first concert like this... In the middle of the piece, the soprano and tenor did a troll. 1st movement is a duel between the piano and the jello. Jello played vibrato, tremelo, and harmonics while the piano played as a accompaniment. (from a description of the Britten "Jello" Sonata in C, Op. 65) The tenth movement is [performed] with heaving concentration on the bras section. The trumpets whaled in the distance... [This piece is] polymorphic in texture. The notes were staccato and they used the thrill technique with this movement. The bong, generally, adds to the music. -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" - attributed to Frank Zappa "Beschriebene Musik ist wie ein erzŠhltes Mittagessen" - Franz Grillparzer zugeschrieben From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:20:48 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Personal:Jack Bailey Message-ID: <199912201921.OAA30296@smtp7.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (Sorry to take up trombone-l space for this but I've had some personal correspondence w/Jack Bailey that seems not to have reached him. Thought I'd try the list.) Jack...I replied to your email on Dec. 15th. I'm receiving your emails, so write me if you get this. S. From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:34:10 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Diehl" To: , Subject: RE: Service Bands in the midwest Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Josh (& all), Let me add something - the U.S. Navy does NOT pay off your college loans. You do it yourself. The U.S. Army CAN help you with that, however. I don't know anything about the other services. As for the Navy, you cannot be accepted into the Navy Music Program as an officer. Musician officers are selected exlusively from the ranks of Navy enlisted musicians. Membership in the U.S. Navy Band will get you to E6, and membership in the U.S. Naval Academy Band will get you E5. Promotions from those levels are not easy to come by; albeit not impossible. (Incidentally, the Naval Academy band is the ONLY premier U.S. military band at the E5 level.) All the others are at E6. Get your degree and make your choices from there. And please review Eric Burger's post. He has made some very good information available to you. (Therefore I'm going to incude it in its entirety. Delete now if you've already read it.) Jeff Diehl Senior Chief Musician & Bass Trombonist U.S. Naval Academy Band >>> Eric Burger 12/20/99 08:47PM >>> Josh, here's my perspective on your questions: I am looking for info on military bands. I would prefer playing with jazz groups and small ensembles. I play a variety of brass instruments and I may even be able to play some of them at a decent level. (snip) It is most important in any of the service bands that you play what you play best - however, there may be a greater need for one than another, and it might end up being financially beneficial to play your second. You had better be willing to play that one instrument a lot, though.. I want to know what I can expect in pay, advancement oppurtunities, and other incentives. Can they help with college?What about existing student loans? (snip) the pay is good ($16000 a year + benefits to start) depending on the service, advancement can be quick or slow, and all services will pay off student loans and assist you with tuition while on duty - this is the best part... Would I be able to go in as an officer or would I have to sign up as enlisted?(snip) without an advanced degree and pretty good conducting & arranging chops, you will be enlisted, however at a higher rank than most entering. with a degree, you can work your way up to warrant officer or commissioned officer... Should I consider reserves or ROTC rather than going straight in?(snip) No. Who are the appropriate people in the midwest to talk with? I did talk to someone who was supposedly an officer recruiter for the midwest area and he said that most musicians who go in as officers have a doctorate(i took that as a big load of bull).(snip) he's right. Here's the warning: If you are very, very, very good, you may be able to get into on of the special bands(audition information is on each web site), But, like most of us, you can join the army, Air Force, navy, or marines. The marine recruiters are probably the best at getting you the accurate information, army worse. Every service requires an audition, which entails scales (10%) a prepared solo grade 3+ (40%), and sight reading (50%). All aspects of your playing will be evaluated (tone, technique, posture, etc.) and if your score is high enough, you will be offered a position. Some service recruiters will try to tell you that to get in you have to join first in another job, then audition later. this is fraudulent enlistment tricks, and anyone who lets me know the name of this recruiter will get this fool fried...Don't enlist without the guarantee of the job position (i.e. Trombone Player) Basic Basic Point Who can give me incentive money? Who will pay me well? Who Should I talk to? Everyone has the same pay scales, however the army offers faster promotion, then navy, then marines and Air Force. this is because the army has a much bigger program, and more places to go... the navy and marines really take advancing the quality of the player, but their schedule will make attending school while in difficult. Air force has the best quality of life (Facilities, housing,) but their slow promotion rate can be frustrating. Please remember, though - while the services offer good pay and incentives, you should never join just for the cash - serving your country will ask a lot of you, and if you are not willing to give freely of yourself, you will be miserable, and detract from the important mission these bands do... SSG Eric H. Burger United States Army Band, Europe (Heidelberg, Germany) From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:28:55 EST From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Air Travel (again) Message-ID: <0.d3e8303d.259023c7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List- Pretty soon, I'm gonna have to fly to at least one college audition. With what airline(s) have you had the best experiences, as far as lack of damage, and/or leniency in carrying on your horn? I don't have the money to get a golf case, but i definitely will put a cone inside the bell and line the case with old clothes. Thanks for everything. ~Tommy From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:28:09 EST From: DOUGNCYNDY@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1530 Message-ID: <0.b6a53d34.259031a9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/99 7:05:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu writes: << Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 22:30:54 -0800 From: David Oliver To: Trombone List Subject: First Quartet Performance Message-ID: <384B581E.DCAD4D48@access1.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I' ve completed another milestone with my first quartet performance. It was on trombone 4/bass trombone. I was subbing for Del (another lister) in the Denver Concert Band trombone quartet. One of our best pieces (I think) was "Achieved is the Glorious Work". I did my best to come up to the Blair Bollinger level. Those you who have the "Four of a Kind" CD know what I mean (1st track). Del told me about the trick with the independent 2nd valve to play C in a flat 2nd in the 1st measure. I still consider myself a tenor player, but bass trombone has been more of a positive than negative. I guess it isn't too much of a stretch for someone who's dinked around on bass guitar since I was a senior in high school (I'm 37 now). I always think back to hearing a bass trombone for the first time on a "Brass Impact" record (Paul Faulise). Of course I like the electric bass sound on the recording too! There are some great trombone sounds on that record - if brief. If you look back on the 60's "top 40" recordings, the bass trombone was everywhere. I'd still like to know who played bass trombone on that Beach Boys "Be With Me" track on their "20/20" record. It's a great use of bass trombone. I'm having a blast playing the TR-181 in a 9 performance church Christmas program - yep, plenty of them David Clydesdale arrangements. I really like the "Sleigh Ride" & "I'll Be Home for Christmas" arrangements of his that we are doing. Yes, it's Bass Trombone/Tuba, but in the first case it is split. In the second case, I say - dump the tuba! ;) In fact, it looks like most of the arrangements are Clydesdale. I need to get back to my 88H and them etudes soon... BTW, I played my 1936 Conn 4H with an older Conn 3 MP tonight. Very nice. The Remington mouthpieces seem to produce a sharper sound than the "cup" shaped mouthpieces. Maybe it's just me. I do know that 12C is just too small for me with the bass doubling. I think 11C is limit on the tenor side. For any of you in the area, the Denver Concert Band Holiday Concert is this upcoming Saturday (11th) at 2 p.m. It is in downtown Denver at Central Presbyterian Church, 1660 Sherman St. Free Admission. David Oliver Westminster, Colorado USA Bass/Tenor Trombone, Denver Concert Band >> From ???@??? Tue Dec 21 08:35:09 1999 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:45:01 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: astro@pconline.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: embouchure issue Message-ID: <199912210546.XAA11337@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Mike and list, I wanted to respond to this as it related quite closely to my current experience and what I have gone through in about the last three years. Although I have not taken a 15 year rest as in your case I did have some playing problems, one of which was losing the feel for this "sweet spot" as you say. I should say first that the root of the problems that I was experiencing was the use of air. I am now more than ever convinced of Jacobs' teaching of wind and song and that the sound functioning of the air stream and the breathing mechanism solves so many problems. I did have a lesson with Mr. Jacobs the week before he died. He helped me tremendously and I was very upset when he did die not only because of the loss of such a wonderful human being but (selfishly) for the fact that he would not be around to help me solve my problems. I then turned to Nick Atkinson in Ottawa for help. He has certainly done a tremendous job in solving problems and I believe he is Canada's brass pedagogy secret. (shameless plug for Nick!) Mike wrote: > > The greatest frustration I found was that I KNOW how to play the trombone > > and can remember the experience of playing like it was yesterday. however, > > when you don't yet have the musculature and strength you cannot do what you > > used to! Very madding stuff and it takes the patience of a saint to try to > > remain slow and steady and not start trying to play all your favorite > > pieces, or worse yet, favorite Rosolino and Fontana licks! This was my life everyday when I was having the worst of my problems. And yes it is VERY frustrating. I should say that I was/am also playing professionally while all this was/is going on. Go slow and steady and try to see any and all improvement as you go, this is one thing that kept me going and not totally quitting. Did I play anything better today than I did yesterday? More often than not the answer was yes. Think of that when you are practising. There is a lot of stuff that won't go the same as it did yesterday or the day before but try to concentrate on the improvements. Mike wrote: > I have taken the approach that i should treat the instrument > > as a beginner in many respects and try to let it all come back naturally as > > it wants to now. Yes and no. I agree with trying to treat the instrument as a beginner but this becomes very difficult considering the amount of knowledge you have in your head potentially getting in the way of the naivete of a beginning trombone player. Use that knowledge to go carefully and steadily improve. I have taken the approach of using all the knowledge that I have gathered over the years studying with various teachers (Ted Griffith, Murray Crewe, Joe Alessi, Nick Atkinson, Arnold Jacobs) and using it everytime I pick up the horn. I try to imagine that one of them (or a few, or all) are sitting with me on a gig or when I am practicing and try to do what they have told me over the years. This has worked very well of late and I have seen significant improvement and consistency over the last month or so. There are times when I may tend to slip a little and I realize it is as a result of not paying attention to what I am doing thinking that everything is okay. Those are the days I have to stop and reset what I am doing and what I started that day. I hope this helps somewhat. I know what you are going through and would like to think I have some answers and certainly know that I don't have all answers. Write or post if you have more questions. Cheers Peter Collins