TROMBONE-L Digest 1536 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Band and Basketball Games metamorphosizing into Marching... by Feneley 2) Re: Pets by 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) 3) Ensemble Music by Brett Wilson 4) RE: Band And Basketball games don't mix by BrianB@PR-CN.COM 5) Pets - The Looies by CaryMusic@aol.com 6) Re: Assorted opinions by "David Carter" 7) Re: This Whole Music Thing by "Robert Holland" 8) Re: This Whole Music Thing by "Robert Holland" 9) Re: Band And Basketball games don't mix by Jeff Hettling 10) trombone-tennis elbow by renegar@mindspring.com (John and Robin Renegar) 11) Re: trombone-tennis elbow by Steve Butterworth 12) Re: Pets - The Looies by Galen Zinn 13) Re: Pets - Old English Sheepdogs by Galen Zinn 14) Oops Again by Galen Zinn 15) Re: This Whole Music Thing by Mike Coyle 16) Re: trombone-tennis elbow (REALLY longwinded) by Beth Lewis 17) Hetman's oil & Thayer valves by "stevencarr" 18) Olds bass trombone maybe for sale by Joestanko@aol.com 19) Re: Band And Basketball games don't mix by Elie A Harriett 20) Fw: Band And Basketball games don't mix by "wayne e. collins" 21) Re: This Whole Music Thing by "Kenneth Dowdy" 22) Re: Assorted opinions by "Kenneth Dowdy" 23) Re: Fw: Band And Basketball games don't mix by NHSGrizzly16@aol.com 24) Re: This Whole Music Thing by Mike Coyle 25) Fwd: Re: Evolution by Mike Coyle 26) Jazz Camp-XMAS Gift to yourself! by JazVermont@aol.com 27) Re: Victor Ewald by Bill Fatch 28) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by Wayne Dyess 29) Re: This Whole Music Thing by AlRobnett@aol.com 30) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by AlRobnett@aol.com 31) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by Earl Needham 32) Ballade(tenortbn)/Ewazen by Beth Lewis 33) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by Matmutt@aol.com 34) Re: Warm Down...... by Feneley 35) SNOBBISM ALERT by Andrewsjon@aol.com 36) Re: This Whole Music Thing by Mike Coyle 37) Re: SNOBBISM ALERT by Mike Coyle 38) ticked off! (was SNOBBISM ALERT) by Mike Coyle 39) the music thread by Angie Brunk 40) Re: the music thread by Mike Coyle From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:23:13 -0500 From: Feneley To: TBone List Subject: Re: Band and Basketball Games metamorphosizing into Marching... Message-ID: <38524231.809171D4@glccomputers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah, the great memories.... I was attending college at Northern Michigan College of Education, now Northern Michigan University, Marquette, MI, in the Fall of 1954 and it was Homecoming Parade. Cold. It's always cold in the Fall in Marquette. So, we're marching up this steep hill on Front St. after leaving the downtown area and heading back for the institution playing some march. Anyway, at the crest of the hill I went for 6th position and the slide slipped out of my fingers and went bouncing out into this intersection probably 15 to 20 feet ahead of the band (bones were in the front row). A car went through the intersection right in front of the band straddling (sp.?) and missing the now resting slide right before my and the entire section's terrorised (or was it laughing) eyes. Damage? A couple of nicks in the lacquer from bouncing along on the tarvey. Pleasant memories of yesteryears. Ken Feneley From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:58:40 GMT From: 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) To: REOnofreyJ@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Pets Message-ID: <38524a06.18984616@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:56:02 EST, you wrote: >Mike, > >Interesting concept, however, I have 2 dogs, Lhasa Apsos -- Molly and Kelly. >Maybe I'm an aberration, but I happen to hate cats (not to mention being >severely allergic). > >Thanks, > >Rick Onofrey I have one dog: 9 year old Great Dane bitch. She is slightly scared of my trombone - the instrument, not the sound and the bass more so than the tenor. give me a day to find out about the f# .she can't stand my sister's piccolo or altissimo clarinet though. I am also allergic to fluffy footballs (oops - cats) Simon Greatwood From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:55:54 -0500 From: Brett Wilson To: Trombone-L Subject: Ensemble Music Message-ID: <3851AF2A.268A2F8F@speedynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, I'm working on putting together a trombone ensemble at school to play for our Winter concert which will be in early March. Right now I'm looking at having 8-10 trombonists. I'm looking for music that would be at an intermediate level. I was thinking of either a trombone quartet with two on a part if there are 8 players or parts divided 2, 2, 3, 3 if there are ten players. Or quintet music with two on a part if there are 10 players. If anyone has any suggestions as to what to play I would appreciate it. Thanks, Brett Wilson From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:57:55 -0500 From: BrianB@PR-CN.COM To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Band And Basketball games don't mix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Need less to say I will guard my horn more carefully. > If anyone has similar stories I would like hear them. Yes, always guard your instrument against errant basketballs. (And your sousaphone against errant hockey pucks, but that's another story.) Given the sobriety level of some of our fans at University games, we always had to guard our drums against those fans who wanted to prove they had no sense of rhythm. If they couldn't reach the drums, they would from time to time try their luck at whatever other instrument was left unguarded. Fortunately my own horn never suffered any permanent damage during these events. As I was saying, its not always the game that can be dangerous. We were the first OUAA band to get a technical foul (for our musical protest against the new "no playing while the ball is in motion" rule). Also, we were the band most likely to be attacked by its own team's fans (our rather odd trumpet player used to wait for moments of silence to make loud, inappropriate comments). Brian xDCCWB From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:36:53 EST From: CaryMusic@aol.com To: 8guion@jmls.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Pets - The Looies Message-ID: <0.cd21fb65.2583c995@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looie Armstrong, our first Shar Pei, was crazy about the tuba. Anytime I practiced Looie would come running and stay for the session. If I put the horn down he went for the mouthpiece. He would lick it in every direction ... we think trying to get some sound. One day I had forgotten about Looie and heard this crunching sound... Looie had decided he had to bite it. If he had lived longer we might have had the first Tubapooch and made a million. I was thinking about modifying a 6 1/2 AL for him....... Our second Looie, Looie Tooie, hated the clarinet. When our band practices, Looie sits at the feet of the blackstick and barks. He had to be banned from practice. Charlie Black, a black lab, is a singer. Terrific range.. could care less about any of the horns. Cary Hobbs From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:44:25 -0600 From: "David Carter" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Assorted opinions Message-ID: <004801bf43ee$c17c75e0$02000003@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting results. I've found that young players can play large bore horns if the mouthpiece is not too large. (also they have an easier time if the horn does not have a f valve due to problems holding the horn.) I've had beginers do well on the 8H and regular begginer mouthpieces with an adapter. I move them up to a larger mouthpiece when I feel they are ready. DC -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Dowdy To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:48 PM Subject: Re: Assorted opinions >Couple things on this subject: > >I had a chance to work with my 5th graders again today. It is always an >uplifting experience for me. I had the string weenies for a while, too. I >played my trombone along with them, which was the first time any of them >(4th, 5th, and 6th graders) ever played along with a brass instrument. The >trombone blended well with the group and really helped the two cellos who >were trying to compete with about a dozen violins and violas. > >One of the 5th grade trombone students was really struggling. She has not >been playing for very long, and she was having a really hard time "filling" >some of the notes. He attacks we also anything but attacks. She was using >one of the new Olds .500 bores (school issue), and I knew there was nothing >wrong with the horn. I had her hand me the setup, and sure enough, it had a >6 1/2 AL attached to it. Without really letting her know what I was doing, >I put a Bach 12C on it and handed it back to her. The improvement was >dramatic and instantaneous! > >I have purchased a couple of 7Cs for some kids that have lips about the size >of my butt, but from my experiences so far, I remain sold on the 12C for >kids of that age using .500 bores. > >Also, about my favorite mouthpiece of any kind is the Schilke 24 that I have >on my soprano bone. Seems like I can play it all day and not be the worse >for wear. I picked up a Schilke 40B for the 3B to see what it would be >like. When I took it out of the box, I was sure that I had goofed up. I >was expecting a very shallow cup, and this thing has a cup deeper than >anything else that I have. It is also the heaviest mouthpiece I have toyed >with. On top of it all, it is also quite a bit longer than any of my other >mouthpieces. So much for me getting a smaller, trumpet like mouthpiece for >my trombone! > >Well, I have two weeks to try it out, so I played on it for a couple hours >yesterday, and a few more today. The intonation on my trombone changed a >bit (third position is not where it used to be). But also, the tone became >much more mellow. The high notes up to high C come out sounding almost >hornlike and not at all forced. And what really astounded me was that in >spite of the very narrow cup diameter, it sounds very good all the way down >to low F. The only thing I can't do with it is pedal tones. I think this >one will stay in my collection for a while. > >Ken Dowdy > >-----Original Message----- >From: kingbone@earthlink.net >To: Trombones and related issues forum. >Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 7:15 PM >Subject: Assorted opinions > > >>ooooooooh! Lots of things to spout off about in the latest digest. >> >>1: The question of what mouthpiece to use with a Conn 14H. I fall into the >>non-6 1/2 AL camp. Personally, I wouldn't use anything larger than an 11C >on >>any small bore horn. However, I will admit that I experimented with a 7C >and >>found it No. 2 behind the 11C. I have never been able to adjust to a 6 1/2. >>You can blindfold me and put a run of mouthpieces in the horn and I'll pick >>the 6 1/2 out every time. I play primarily on a King 3B and the 11C >Megatone >>was a world of difference when I converted from a 12C. The 11C rim feels >>better and the extra mass of the Megatone darkens and beefs up the sound >just >>a tad. The 6 1/2 has never worked for me on a large bore, either: I use a >5GS. > > > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:15:38 -0600 From: "Robert Holland" To: "Trb. List" Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing Message-ID: <199912111525.3851600@Chicago5> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Joao Pedro Leao wrote: > As a devout atheist I must remark that among the most admirable traits > I find in Bach is the consistent level of inspiration and achievement shared > by his sacred and his profane music! I happen to find myself raised to the > same levels of intelectual, sensual and -- yes! -- spiritual stimulation and > delight when listening to the B Minor Mass (or St. John's Passion) These remarks resonate with me. Without unburdening myself of my particular spiritual outlook, I find myself often drawn to types of music that embody spirituality that I don't necessary share. For me it's a sense of commitment and participation (among other things) that's attractive. Several of the arrangements I've done are from sacred vocal music. If one objects that I'm simply a dilettante, appropriating spiritual music for my own use, well, that's really too rigid an outlook. Atheism and spirituality and agnosticism and such are not nearly so discrete within the sphere of music, nor are they necessarily mutually exclusive (as suggested in another post by another writer). Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net http://members.aol.com/EnsPub/briar.htm From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:24:31 -0600 From: "Robert Holland" To: "Trb. List" Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing Message-ID: <199912111525.3851900@Chicago5> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ken Dowdy wrote: > But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be > studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. I'm quite late joining this discussion. I'm impressed with much that has been said and haven't a lot to add. But I have to respond to the above statement. I'm really quite flabbergasted that anyone with an honest sympathy toward music could offer such an opinion. Lay persons? Sure, I hear it all the time. I doubt it's difficult, though, for any of us to reach back into memory to recall some effort we've made on behalf of our musical understanding/appreciate/enjoyment that wasn't rewarded. How limiting it much be to believe that all that exists in a musical work must be on the surface or not be worth the bother. Quite to the contrary, when preparing a recital or such, my best insights always come when I'm so thoroughly familiar with a piece that I'm getting sick of it, but then something new falls out of it and I'm energized again. Those strokes of insight are certainly worth the bother to me. Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net http://members.aol.com/EnsPub/briar.htm From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:52:18 -0600 From: Jeff Hettling To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Band And Basketball games don't mix Message-ID: <38528F51.EBBEB75A@starpoint.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hal Starkey wrote: > Dan Thorpe wrote: > > I have a recent experience that I believe makes a point that high school > bands get no respect when compared with sports. Tonight I was playing at > a Basketball game with our pep band. We were setting up before the game > when a ball came flying in and knocked my recently acquired Blessing > B-78 of my trombone stand (I have a Bach 42-B for concert and Jazz Combo > playing) the inner tubes were bent two ways. One managed to north and > west and the other went south and east. Needless I could not play it, > and I didn't have my Bach there (Thank God). I ended up playing my part > on Euphonium the rest of the night. Need less to say I will guard my > horn more carefully. If anyone has similar stories I would like hear > them. > It could have been worse, at least it was for me. Well I was at a vollyball game playing pep band between the B squad and varsity games. For some stupid reason our director has the low brass sit on the bottom of the bleechers, not the top. Well anyways, I was playing and a loose vollyball came and hit dead center of my slide while I was playing it. Least to say I wasn't happy. I knew that I didn't break any teeth because it hurt too much. (that and I did a quick one over with my toung) My slide was locked because there was a small dent on the outer slide and when I could get that off, I found that my inner slide was bent to hell. I wasn't fortunate enough to find a euphonioum, (even though I could play better than our players that started on the euph.) so I ended up playing the bass drum for the rest of the night in a very bad mood. That's when I swore never to play for a game where balls fly out of control. My horn that I was playing at the time was a King 609F, I was just happy that I had sworn to myself never to take either one of my Edwards to pep band, or outdoors. The only thing that made me happy was when I got the bill for getting the slides fixed, $12. I'm very fortunate to have a repair person that knows me well and can fix anything. BTW she is also my pianist. From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:32:06 -0800 From: renegar@mindspring.com (John and Robin Renegar) To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: trombone-tennis elbow Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've been struggling for the past 2 or 3 months with very painful tendonitis in the left elbow. I've been using a tennis elbow strap, which helps, and heavy doses of Motrin. It is still quite painful to lift the horn, etc. Anyone found a cure for this? John Renegar From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:49:35 -0500 From: Steve Butterworth To: renegar@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: trombone-tennis elbow Message-ID: <38529CBF.3127DEAB@istar.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are a number of physio-therapists for musicians in my area so there must be some in yours. Perhaps the local AF of M office could point you to one. They usually video tape you playing and suggest different posture or holdong positions. For flare-ups, I put my Sabona copper bracelet on. They are usually worn by golfers but they really help me-may be psycological, but it works. You should avoid drugs as they just mask the problem. I'm sure a physiotherapist will prescribe light weight lifting to tone the finer musicles in your arms which will take some stress off of the tendons. Best of luck, Steve John and Robin Renegar wrote: > I've been struggling for the past 2 or 3 months with very painful > tendonitis in the left elbow. I've been using a tennis elbow strap, which > helps, and heavy doses of Motrin. It is still quite painful to lift the > horn, etc. Anyone found a cure for this? > > John Renegar From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:08:59 -0700 From: Galen Zinn To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Pets - The Looies Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ya wanna have a great pal for your morning walk? Get an Old English Sheepdog! Oh yeah, he/she will be a good excuse not to practice the trombone too! They need lots of grooming! Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:30:12 -0700 From: Galen Zinn To: Trombone List Subject: Re: Pets - Old English Sheepdogs Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3027756613_204570_MIME_Part" Re: Pets - Old English Sheepdogs Ya wanna have a great pal for your morning walk? Get an Old English
Sheepdog! Oh yeah, he/she will be a good excuse not to practice the trombone
too! They need lots of grooming!

Galen Zinn        
E-mail: zinger@musician.org
Please excuse the previous post which was partially titled "The Loonies". From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:33:33 -0700 From: Galen Zinn To: Trombone List Subject: Oops Again Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Can't seem to get my fingers to do the walking this morning. The correct word was "looies". Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:40:25 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: briar@chicagonet.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing Message-ID: <199912111944.NAA00436@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Ken Dowdy wrote: > >> But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be >> studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. Robert, Somehow I must have missed the assertion above that states: "music that has to be studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother". Ken (tsk, tsk :) - I have the utmost respect for you, you know that, but I too have to take issue with that notion. It is probably my composer roots that have always made me an analytical freak, but, I just love delving into the blood and guts of difficult works. As a younger man I detested the music of Elliott Carter (Americas elder statesman of composition), but I was determined to find out what his stuff was about. After MUCH arduous work I can now say that I adore Carter's music. Often, it is not until one is familar with the grammar and syntax, not to mention the musical sensibility, of a composer's music that it can be understood and then has even a chance of being appreciated. There are individual piece by certain composers whose magic is only revealed after extensive listening and analysis. For instance Elgar's Introduction and Allegro for strings used to baffle me until I lived with it for a while. Also, there is a Fantastic Russian composer named Sofia Gubaidulina who writes some of the most exciting and provocative music of our time. I find most of her music to be very accessible - check out her Symphony in 12 movements!. However, she wrote a piece for violin & orchestra called Offeratorium which is loosely (very loosely) based on Bach's musical offering theme (yes, the same one Webern did that profound arrangement of) and its logic and meaning alluded me for months, again until I "lived" with it long enough to see its subtle charms revealed. Even now, it is still revealing itself to me. I understand that some people just don't enjoy having to work so hard to appreciate some music, but I don't think it is a matter of simply coming to appreciate it, it is a matter of coming to identify with it and truly understand its language. Many other pursuits are similar in life, mathematics for example, which one needs to study extensively before understanding the beauty of the high-level intricacies. Almost anything that is difficult to grasp initially will reveal a previously hidden beauty if looked at long enough. There are. of course, somethings in life which are just vapid and meaningless to being with and will never reveal anything other than their flawed and wanting nature - unfortunately, such is the case with a lot of contemporary music by less than brilliant composers (true of the past too, but most music of earlier times is generally easier for us to comprehend today. thus more easily disgarded). We live in the day of fast info sharing though, so everyone's outpourings can be immediately shared. whether they should be or not :) Mike PS spell check just kills me sometimes with its suggestions for proper nouns - it wanted to change Gubaidulina to Genitalia (I'm sure Sofia would really have appreciated that) and Elgar to El gar (spanish for The gar :) At 10:24 AM 12/11/99 , you wrote: >Ken Dowdy wrote: > >> But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be >> studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. > >I'm quite late joining this discussion. I'm impressed with much that has >been said and haven't a lot to add. But I have to respond to the above >statement. > >I'm really quite flabbergasted that anyone with an honest sympathy >toward music could offer such an opinion. Lay persons? Sure, I hear it >all the time. I doubt it's difficult, though, for any of us to reach >back into memory to recall some effort we've made on behalf of our >musical understanding/appreciate/enjoyment that wasn't rewarded. How >limiting it much be to believe that all that exists in a musical work >must be on the surface or not be worth the bother. Quite to the >contrary, when preparing a recital or such, my best insights always come >when I'm so thoroughly familiar with a piece that I'm getting sick of >it, but then something new falls out of it and I'm energized again. >Those strokes of insight are certainly worth the bother to me. > >Robert Holland >Briar Music Press >briar@chicagonet.net >http://members.aol.com/EnsPub/briar.htm > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:46:38 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: John and Robin Renegar Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: trombone-tennis elbow (REALLY longwinded) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Have you seen a doctor and physical therapist? If not, you should do this ASAP! Elbow straps and antiflammatories may make you feel better, but they will not take care of the problem. Seeking qualified medical help and following their advice concerning excercizes, cutting back on playing time and other aggravations is about the only way to go if you're serious about getting over this. All of the physical therapists I've seen heavily stress doing the prescribed exercizes regularly. You have to build up the weakened muscles/tendons. This could take months or longer, but you'll be glad when you can play as much as you want to again. Another important thing to remember: if it hurts, DON'T DO IT. If that means not playing at all for a while, not using the computer, not opening windows (etc.), that's what you gotta do. Our bodies are very good at letting us know when the strain we put upon ourselves is too much, and you should not ignore it. There are no over-night cures, but through the help of physical therapy and conscientious use (rest) of the affected arm, you may be able to get over the injury within months (which is better than not playing any more for the rest of your life, right?) Of course there are ways to lessen the strain of playing _slightly_ by taking breaks every few min., playing a lighter instrument, adding a counterweight to improve balance, etc., but with lifting the instrument "quite painful" for you, the best thing for you right now is to NOT pick up a trombone (or pick it up as little as possible if your livelihood or school is involved) and get yourself an appointment with a sports medicine doctor, who will be able to tell what the problem is (could be something other than radial epicondylitis/tennis elbow) and refer you to a good physical therapist. A doctor who specializes in performing arts medicine would be even better, but those of us not living near very large cities don't have that luxury. Anyway, from my experiences, the doctor will refer you to treatment, meaning she/he will only diagnose the problem, prescribe a different anti-inflammatory, and tell you to see a PT, so it's really important to keep up with the physical therapy. For problems as severe as you describe, you'll probably need something more drastic than just changing the way you play (posture, grip, etc). Though this certainly helps, you have to remember that you have an injury, and in order to let it heal, you must give it rest, exercize to build back up (when the time is right),and when you do start playing, you must be a lot more careful--if something hurts, put the horn down for a while (it's that simple). Other things that help and PT will probably have you do: Ice (with a papertowel or rag to protect your skin) for 20 min. as many times as you can (I was told 6-7X a day at first) especially after doing something strenuous like practicing or the prescribed exercizes. Using an ace bandage (wrapped loosely) so that you don't have to hold an ice bag to your arm for 20 min. helps. Stretching-- It's hard to describe these in this format, but your doctor/PT will take care of this. You should always stretch before/after practicing, and every 3 hours or so during the day. Aerobic exercize is pretty important too, so stay active. You probably have scar tissue, and a treatment that you could ask about would be Graston (similar, but more intense, to soft tissue mobilization, massage, etc., and ALWAYS coupled with progressive exercizes and ice). It's not for the faint of heart though. Anyway, the absolute best thing you could do right now is seek medical advice and play as little as you can get away with (why keep injuring yourself?). There's a really good periodical that has tendonitis-related articles and studies in a few past issues: Medical Problems of Performing Artists. If interested, most music libraries should have it. Best of Luck, Beth Lewis On Sat, 11 Dec 1999, John and Robin Renegar wrote: > I've been struggling for the past 2 or 3 months with very painful > tendonitis in the left elbow. I've been using a tennis elbow strap, which > helps, and heavy doses of Motrin. It is still quite painful to lift the > horn, etc. Anyone found a cure for this? > > John Renegar > > > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:27:31 -0500 From: "stevencarr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Hetman's oil & Thayer valves Message-ID: <041d01bf4416$2659c590$173d0818@cc938625-a.narltn1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_041A_01BF43EC.3D6B5390"
Does anyone use Hetman's oil on their Thayer valves?  If so what weight?  I've be using it on my tuba (piston and rotor) for about a year.  It seems to work well even though the tuba will sit for weeks without being played. (The bass bone gets played often).
 
Just looking for any experiences . . .
 
Thanks
 
Steve Carr
 From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:32:40 EST From: Joestanko@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Olds bass trombone maybe for sale Message-ID: <0.61e60fe5.25840ee8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend of mine has an Olds P-24G double valve in line bass trombone that he may want to sell. It has practically no use, is in mint condition, and comes with hard case. If anyone knows what this model may be worth, or is interested in it, email me privately please. Thanks. Joe Stanko From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:58:49 -0600 (CST) From: Elie A Harriett To: Trombone-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Band And Basketball games don't mix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I completely sympathize with you there. When I was a member of a pep band, I was always carefully guarding my trombone. While I always took the lesser of my two tenor trombones with me to play, I never treated one like my "bad" horn over the other and guarded it less. Remember, your good horn will become the one in peril if you damage your "bad" one. As director of our school's pep band, however, there's one guy who always takes his bass trombone with him to the court, and we have several others who do the same with their really expensive horns. They guard them as if they were holding small children, as well they should. Elie ################################################ Elie A. Harriett Graduate Teaching Assistant - Instrumental Music University of Nebraska - Omaha PAC #236 60th & Dodge Sts. Omaha, Nebraska 68182-0139 (402) 554-3352 From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:03:10 -0500 From: "wayne e. collins" To: "t-bone" Subject: Fw: Band And Basketball games don't mix Message-ID: <011101bf4423$84061b00$bfab2ad1@johnny> > > > Dan Thorpe wrote: > > > > I have a recent experience that I believe makes a point that high school > > bands get no respect when compared with sports. Tonight I was playing at > > a Basketball game with our pep band. We were setting up before the game > > when a ball came flying in and knocked my recently acquired Blessing > > B-78 of my trombone stand (I have a Bach 42-B for concert and Jazz Combo > > playing) the inner tubes were bent two ways. One managed to north and > > west and the other went south and east. Needless I could not play it, > > and I didn't have my Bach there (Thank God). I ended up playing my part > > on Euphonium the rest of the night. Need less to say I will guard my > > horn more carefully. If anyone has similar stories I would like hear > > them. As to sports vs. band in high school, I agree with Dan. Though there wasn't that much friction between sports and band at my high school, but we did have some run-ins on occasion with the Junior Varsity football squad. Both the band and JV practiced at the same time. The JV team practiced on the field next to our marching practice lot and they were not shy about spouting the usual band epithets towards us. My freshman year: One day during a practice break, our principle trombonist decided to reply to the incoming taunts from the fball team. Without going into detail, we'll leave it to say that he demanded satisfaction on the field of honor. An appointed date and time were set when 9 JV squad members and 9 band members would square off in a one hour football free-for-all, staright tackle, no pads, no helmets, on the JVs home field (as ours was asphault). Our cobbled-together team included three trumpet players, three trombonists (me included), the principle tuba player, the male clarinet player, and our team anchor - the 6'3, 230 lb. second chair euphonium (T.C.) player. Anyhoo, the game went on as planned (including an official timekeeper). Final Score: Band - 35, JV - 7 The taunting stopped. So did band football when the director found out! Legend had it that the JV team got the riot act from their coach, as well. We preferred to think it was because they lost to the band. :) From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:56 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing Message-ID: <003401bf4423$e92196e0$ae180f3f@default> Robert, I'll try not to open up this wound too badly again, but I would hope that you realize that music is appreciated at different levels. I would agree that a musician (performer, arranger, composer, conductor) should be as familiar with the piece as is possible. However, the vast majority of personnel in contact with music are not musicians. In fact, the majority of those paying musicians salaries are not musicians. I think we are spoiled somewhat in this age of recordings. Someone can write some far off into left field music and just insist that we listen to it until we get it (or at least are afraid to admit that we don't lest we be considered dense). However, when you are performing the piece, you have one shot to make an impression because the audience cannot rewind and listen to it again. In my view, really good music makes that impression and implants the desire to hear the piece again and again. No, you probably won't be able to FULLY appreciate good music on the first pass, but it should not leave you yawning either. I'm afraid that as an "honest" appreciator of music, I am just tired of people feeding me crap and telling me that it is my problem that I didn't take the time to fully submerse myself in their product. I read somewhere that more than 300 new classical CDs were issued in the last 12 months. This is just classical, and does not even count any of the other forms out there. There is just too much out there, and too much of it that is REALLY GOOD, for me to spend too much time (and money) trying to understand one particular piece. That is really all that I am saying, and am myself quite flabbergasted that it is so difficult to understand. Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Robert Holland To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 10:27 AM Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing >Ken Dowdy wrote: > >> But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be >> studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. > >I'm quite late joining this discussion. I'm impressed with much that has >been said and haven't a lot to add. But I have to respond to the above >statement. > >I'm really quite flabbergasted that anyone with an honest sympathy >toward music could offer such an opinion. Lay persons? Sure, I hear it >all the time. I doubt it's difficult, though, for any of us to reach >back into memory to recall some effort we've made on behalf of our >musical understanding/appreciate/enjoyment that wasn't rewarded. How >limiting it much be to believe that all that exists in a musical work >must be on the surface or not be worth the bother. Quite to the >contrary, when preparing a recital or such, my best insights always come >when I'm so thoroughly familiar with a piece that I'm getting sick of >it, but then something new falls out of it and I'm energized again. >Those strokes of insight are certainly worth the bother to me. > >Robert Holland >Briar Music Press >briar@chicagonet.net >http://members.aol.com/EnsPub/briar.htm From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:17:40 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Assorted opinions Message-ID: <005101bf4425$8b7d8100$ae180f3f@default> That is a very interesting idea, and tends to confirm a suspicion that I have had for a while. A couple students that I work with play the euphonium, which is larger bored than the average student trombone. They start with 12Cs and seem to be able to move to larger mouthpieces with no real problem. The more that I look at the problem, the more I am inclined to believe that the real problem with students and the 6 1/2 AL is that the mouthpiece is not well matched to the student horn's venturii. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if rather than giving my student a smaller mouthpiece, I would have given her a bigger horn. Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: David Carter To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Assorted opinions >Interesting results. I've found that young players can play large bore horns >if the mouthpiece is not too large. (also they have an easier time if the >horn does not have a f valve due to problems holding the horn.) I've had >beginers do well on the 8H and regular begginer mouthpieces with an adapter. >I move them up to a larger mouthpiece when I feel they are ready. > >DC From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:22:34 EST From: NHSGrizzly16@aol.com To: ozone@vol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Band And Basketball games don't mix Message-ID: <0.6a61b26d.258428aa@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our band gets tons of respect. In fact, everyone makes a big deal if we don't play at a game. They even write letters to our newspaper editor. For basketball season, our jazz band plays. From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:25:36 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: ksdowdy@email.msn.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing Message-ID: <199912112229.QAA07585@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Was just practicing and heard my email alert go off and wanted to pass this along, Ken. I am glad you clarified this. I may have misunderstood your first post. I agree with you about the general public not wanting to or having to take the time to "fully immerse themselves in the product". Paul McCartney, when asked if it was the quality of their music that made the Beatles so popular, answered: "no, we were mediocre at best, but mediocre is good enough for the general public." AMEN - we have done the general public a horrible disservice by feeding them more and more crap over the years. - and then we complain that people have bad taste! My personal feeling is that the quick dismissal of some good, albeit "dense", music happens with musicians too. I think when it is just shear habit or laziness it is an awful shame. Having talked with you enough over the past few weeks I know it is not stupidity or laziness on your part when you say you just don't want to waste the time or money "trying to understand one particular piece." You have discerning tastes and kn ow what you like and what you don't and I respect that. I am glad that, for the most part, my own interest in composition does not lean too far toward the kind of music I think you are making reference to. However, even my stuff, which has been called rather approachable on several occasions by critics, is too atonal and "cerebral" for many people's taste. I would never try to push it down their throats - quite honestly, as I try not to base too much of my money-making on my composition, I can afford to not care what anyone thinks (except my cats and significant other - they have to live with it :) - I can maintain my elitist stance on my own art that way and not feel ignored or misunderstood when people don't "get it." Of course, I gladly sell out and write TV commercials and radio spots when they call and offer me big bucks :) - that music is simply "pot boiler" material for me (it is always released under a pseudonym for that reason). We all have to eat, right? Mike At 04:05 PM 12/11/99 , Ken wrote: >Robert, > >I'll try not to open up this wound too badly again, but I would hope that >you realize that music is appreciated at different levels. I would agree >that a musician (performer, arranger, composer, conductor) should be as >familiar with the piece as is possible. However, the vast majority of >personnel in contact with music are not musicians. In fact, the majority of >those paying musicians salaries are not musicians. I think we are spoiled >somewhat in this age of recordings. Someone can write some far off into >left field music and just insist that we listen to it until we get it (or at >least are afraid to admit that we don't lest we be considered dense). >However, when you are performing the piece, you have one shot to make an >impression because the audience cannot rewind and listen to it again. In my >view, really good music makes that impression and implants the desire to >hear the piece again and again. No, you probably won't be able to FULLY >appreciate good music on the first pass, but it should not leave you yawning >either. I'm afraid that as an "honest" appreciator of music, I am just >tired of people feeding me crap and telling me that it is my problem that I >didn't take the time to fully submerse myself in their product. I read >somewhere that more than 300 new classical CDs were issued in the last 12 >months. This is just classical, and does not even count any of the other >forms out there. There is just too much out there, and too much of it that >is REALLY GOOD, for me to spend too much time (and money) trying to >understand one particular piece. That is really all that I am saying, and >am myself quite flabbergasted that it is so difficult to understand. > >Ken Dowdy > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Holland >To: Trombones and related issues forum. >Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 10:27 AM >Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing > > >>Ken Dowdy wrote: >> >>> But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be >>> studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. >> >>I'm quite late joining this discussion. I'm impressed with much that has >>been said and haven't a lot to add. But I have to respond to the above >>statement. >> >>I'm really quite flabbergasted that anyone with an honest sympathy >>toward music could offer such an opinion. Lay persons? Sure, I hear it >>all the time. I doubt it's difficult, though, for any of us to reach >>back into memory to recall some effort we've made on behalf of our >>musical understanding/appreciate/enjoyment that wasn't rewarded. How >>limiting it much be to believe that all that exists in a musical work >>must be on the surface or not be worth the bother. Quite to the >>contrary, when preparing a recital or such, my best insights always come >>when I'm so thoroughly familiar with a piece that I'm getting sick of >>it, but then something new falls out of it and I'm energized again. >>Those strokes of insight are certainly worth the bother to me. >> >>Robert Holland >>Briar Music Press >>briar@chicagonet.net >>http://members.aol.com/EnsPub/briar.htm > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:45:21 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Re: Evolution Message-ID: <199912112249.QAA08456@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ok kids, I got this hysterical post from Ken Dowdy and I believe he was too humble to post it to the list - he has given me permission to post it, however. I thought it was a really funny conclusion to our discussion of instrument and mouthpiece size :) Here it is: >X-From_: ksdowdy@email.msn.com Fri Dec 10 19:09:01 1999 >From: "Kenneth Dowdy" >To: >Subject: Re: Evolution >Mike, > >I am currently working on the next generation trombone for orchestral use. >It is made of brass stock machined to a diameter of .750, with a bell >flaring out to 32 inches. The mouthpiece consists of the face mask from an >MSA gas mask attached to a demand air regulator, which is in turn fed from a >300 hp Atlas-Copco compressor. My early calculations indicate that it will >have a "dark, warm" sound (probably warm from the blood running from the >listener's ears, and dark because they will black out). It should top out >at about 200 decibels, which should eliminate the need for any amplification >or sound mixing. I heard that Jo Aliesi (sp?) was leaked the specs for this >"ultra-bone" and went into an orgasmic seizure. > >Ken Dowdy > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Coyle >To: Trombones and related issues forum. >Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 11:26 AM >Subject: Evolution > > >>Hi folks, >> >>Don't be scared by the subject line, this post is not about evolution vs. >>creationism, nor is it an ontological inquiry requiring extensive use of >>personal hermeneutics, at least not in a metaphysical sense. God knows >>we've had enough topics lately that could easily have resulted in polemical >>diatribe from everyone's direction :) >> >>We have recently been discussing horn/mouthpiece size and design which has >>gone in the direction of getting larger and larger - at least in >>orchestral playing. It is hard to imagine what the logical end of this >>growth pattern will be. Do you think things will continue in this >>direction; people using larger and larger equipment? Will it just plateau >>when it reaches the limits of practicality? Or, do you think there will be >>a reversal to smaller equipment? I can't imagine. >> >>Frankly, when I picked up the horn again after a long hiatus from the brass >>circuit, I was shocked to see the stats on some equipment currently in use. >> When I saw the size of Alessi's mouthpiece and talked with some other pros >>about this phenomenon (most notably Tom Ashworth and Doug Wright - not to >>say that either of these guys uses bizarrely large equipment, they don't), >>it was hard for me to believe that a principle player would be playing on >>such large equipment. When I went to a schilke 60 years ago it felt like a >>coffee cup and many people at school thought it was far too large >>(including my teacher at the time, Don Knaub). I don't think bass bone >>players have gone to anything much larger, but the tenor players seem to be >>going nuts in the enormous direction. Where is this going? Clearly this >>has contributed to the volume excesses we all talked about recently. Is it >>a fad or a matter of "one-upsmanship"? I really don't mean to sound >>cynical, I am just fascinated by this and don't have a clue where it's >going. >> >>Look forward to reading your thoughts. >> >>Mike >> >> > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:48:49 EST From: JazVermont@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Jazz Camp-XMAS Gift to yourself! Message-ID: <0.25b5d423.25843ce1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Give yourself the gift of a week in the Vermont mountains playing 8 hours a day in on of our five bands. Jazz Vermont, Band Camp for Grownups still has spots for bone players and preregistration special price has been extened to 12/31/99 just before the millenium rings in. Check it out at: http://www.jazzcamp.com Byron Siegal, Director Jazz Vermont From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:47 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:54:21 -0500 From: Bill Fatch To: Tbcwes@aol.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Victor Ewald Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991211195421.006a1ffc@naples.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:36 AM 12/11/99 EST, Tbcwes@aol.com wrote: >Anyone have info on Victor Ewald? > >Thanks, >Wes > Hello Wes, Here's a sample of what you can find at: Victor Ewald was born in St. Petersburg on November 27, 1860, and died there (thecity now being called Leningrad) on April 16, 1935. He was an engineer by profession; from 1895 to 1915 he was professor at the Institute of Civil Engineering, continuing the practice of his profession after the 1917 revolution as well. He was also interested in Russian folk music, taking part on expeditions to northern Russia to gather folk songs. He was, in addition, a well-known violoncellist in the salons of the St. Petersburg nobility, notably in the circle of Mitrofan Petrovich Belaiev (1836 - 1904). Hope this helps, in the meantime........... Cheers, Bill Fatch New Etudes & Duos for Brass From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:10:08 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Chris Waage wrote: >What does everyone use for warmdown? I use long tones, starting on pedal >Bb, and descending as low as I can go, pianissimo. > >Suggestions? Yep. Quit playin'. I'm one of those who has never felt a need for a warm-down. I just quit playin' and put the horn in its case and off I go. Works for me. Wayne Dyess _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Wayne Dyess, Ed.D. Tel. +1-409-880-8146 _/ _/ Lamar University Music Dept. _/ _/ P.O.Box 10044, Beaumont, TX.77710 _/ _/ _/ _/ United Musical Instruments (UMI) _/ _/ "If it sounds good, it is good." -Duke Ellington _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Old trombone players never die; They just slide away! From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:24:43 EST From: AlRobnett@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing Message-ID: <0.ac1ad31b.2584616b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/11/99 1:45:39 PM Central Standard Time, << >Ken Dowdy wrote: > >> But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be >> studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. >> I sympathize with Ken's notion to the extent that I want appreciation of music to be more than an intellectual exercise, but I believe that extended exposure to a genre (study may be too strong a word) may be necessary for appreciation. It has occurred to me that Beethoven, living in our time, would no doubt be a preeminent composer of modern music. However, if he could have been suddenly exposed to our music by some kind of time machine, I suspect he would have been thoroughly turned off. Allen From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:40:02 EST From: AlRobnett@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: <0.e6792750.25846502@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/11/99 7:11:25 PM Central Standard Time, DyessJW@hal.lamar.edu writes: << I'm one of those who has never felt a need for a warm-down. I just quit playin' and put the horn in its case and off I go. >> Wayne, I was glad to see your post. I suspect strongly that much of what passes for "must do" has more psychological value than anything else. Sort of in the vein of always wearing the same underwear in the World Series playoff's. On the other side, though, it strikes me as ironic that, all my life I have used the phrase, "You've gotta hold your mouth just right", and now I'm in a situation where it is probably true. Allen From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:50:46 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991211195046.0421e518@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:10 PM 12/11/99 -0600, Wayne Dyess wrote: >I'm one of those who has never felt a need for a warm-down. I just >quit playin' and put the horn in its case and off I go. > >Works for me. > >Wayne Dyess I like to warm down IF it's been an exceptionally hard gig -- it helps my chops recover a bit. Or at least feel better. HOW do I warm down? I like to play entire melodies on pedal tones. Like -- "Deck the Halls" starting on pedal B flat... No, REALLY! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446 W103d 12.700 (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:04:27 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Ballade(tenortbn)/Ewazen Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Could someone tell me a few things about this piece: relation to Ballade/bass tbn, length, tessitura, difficulty? Thanks, Beth Lewis From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:27:28 EST From: Matmutt@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: <0.60a56ed0.25847020@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/11/99 8:11:07 PM EST, DyessJW@hal.lamar.edu writes: << Yep. Quit playin'. >> Amen, Wayne; Warming DOWN cuts into serious hang time with the guys. I prefer dippin the lips in some type of cold brew. Always works well for me. Manhattans are particularly effective. Larry Priori From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:38:19 -0500 From: Feneley To: TBone List Subject: Re: Warm Down...... Message-ID: <385318AB.70900428@glccomputers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A7245CD80A17C3F9B1D57659" Now here's a guy with the absolute foundation to any sensible 'warm down.'
  
Amen, Wayne;
     Warming DOWN  cuts into serious hang time with the guys. I prefer dippin 
the lips in some type of cold brew. Always works well for me.  Manhattans are 
particularly effective.           
                    Larry Priori
Sipping correctly actually provides what can be called "controlled cooling."

Anything else is just more trombone playing.

Ken Feneley
  From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 02:38:47 EST From: Andrewsjon@aol.com To: astro@pconline.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: SNOBBISM ALERT Message-ID: <0.6398b9a4.2584ab07@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/11/99 4:29:48 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: << AMEN - we have done the general public a horrible disservice by feeding them more and more crap over the years. - and then we complain that people have bad taste! >> This is pure garbage! It presumes that the music that you enjoy is superior to other forms of music. It just is not so. Snobbism! Jon From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 02:14:29 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing Message-ID: <199912120818.CAA29360@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:24 PM 12/11/99 , Allen wrote: >it has occurred to me that Beethoven, living in our time, would >no doubt be a preeminent composer of modern music. >However, if he could have been suddenly exposed to our music by some kind of time machine, I suspect he >would have been thoroughly turned off. You're right Allen. No one could possibly be expected to gravitate to or understand a new thought without having followed , or lived through, the chain of tradition. And, of course Beethoven would have been "turned off" had he been dropped into our time so suddenly - there are 200 years between our time and Beethoven's and to have jumped that time span with no thread of musical transformation would be impossibly incongruous. The problem is that those of us alive now HAVE grown up with and studied the history of ideas which have led to our present music. What is our excuse for not trying to grow with the times? We have the luxury of hind sight and the ability to trace the changes in western music from the late classical period to the present. Were we to give Beethoven the benefit of experiencing the musical growth of those intervening 200 years I would imagine that he would have been as capable of understanding and appreciating the music of our century as most intellectually willing and theoretically astute musicians of our time are. There seems to be a hint of the notion of "dumbing down" in this discussion which smacks of the populist, egalitarian scorn for the very kind of intellectual distinction-making which has allowed cultural progress. William Henry, in his learned and fearless book, "In Defense of Elitism", quotes Margaret Mead who speculated that "the United States was entering a new Dark Ages of medieval mysticism and mumbo-jumbo, of belief based on self interest, mob politics, and fear rather than research and open-minded inquiry." It seems she was right - a brand of anti-intellectual populism is running amok! And, for a group of people (that would be us) who are chiefly interested in classical music and jazz, neither of which is quite the language of the common man, this strikes me as sadly ironic. Mike >In a message dated 12/11/99 1:45:39 PM Central Standard Time, ><< >Ken Dowdy wrote: > > > >> But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be > >> studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. > >> >I sympathize with Ken's notion to the extent that I want appreciation of >music to be more than an intellectual exercise, but I believe that extended >exposure to a genre (study may be too strong a word) may be necessary for >appreciation. It has occurred to me that Beethoven, living in our time, would >no doubt be a preeminent composer of modern music. However, if he could have >been suddenly exposed to our music by some kind of time machine, I suspect he >would have been thoroughly turned off. > >Allen > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 02:14:36 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: Andrewsjon@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: SNOBBISM ALERT Message-ID: <199912120818.CAA29366@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jon, Next time you choose to publicly deride something by a lister as pointedly and deliberately as you did in this post, please have the courtesy to use the person's name (not just cryptic email address). I wrote the line you quoted and want full credit for it. Also, by asserting that my idea was "pure garbage!" clearly shows that you have made a very strong judgement concerning our ideas and imply that your idea is "superior" to mine - that blatantly contradicts you entire argument as music is idea as well. I guess we should judge Bach's St. Matthew Passion and gansta rap by the same criteria. Prior to PC people were allowed to judge things based on merit and did not have to subscribe to the heinously ignorant notion that all things were worth one's attention. I would also guess that you believe all opinions are valid and have equal weight. If that's so, should you ever have a heart attack and need medical advice why not go ask the attendant at your local gas station what he thinks you should do :) point: yes, every one has an opinion but some are far more informed - similarly, all music has a right to be heard but it cannot be judged by the same set of criteria. I won't say that some things are better than others because "better" is a rather timid and subjective word. Some things have far more depth and intellectual relevance though and that does set them apart from the common. I am not ashamed to admit that I believe we should aspire to be the best we can be, not give into the populist notion that intellectualism is bad and "dumbing down" somehow makes us all a little more equal. (Jon, read my latest post on "This Whole Music Thing" if you really want to read something that will make you mad :) Mike At 01:38 AM 12/12/99 , you wrote: >In a message dated 12/11/99 4:29:48 PM Central Standard Time, >astro@pconline.com writes: > ><< AMEN - we have done the general public a horrible disservice by feeding >them more and more crap over the years. - and then we complain that people >have bad taste! >> > >This is pure garbage! It presumes that the music that you enjoy is superior >to other forms of music. It just is not so. Snobbism! > >Jon > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 02:40:45 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: ticked off! (was SNOBBISM ALERT) Message-ID: <199912120844.CAA29995@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Listers, The post that was titled SNOBBISM ALERT sets a very ugly precedent and I hope we can refrain from such things here in the future. Some people may not take this as seriously as I do because it seems that it is acceptable in our current culture to openly insult and dismiss people who hold certain ideas - ideas that are not part of the populist norm. Ask any Christian who speaks openly of his religious beliefs if he feels more subject to criticism than people of more "popular" religious beliefs, beliefs which are not automatically and unfairly connected to arch-conservatism, dogmatism, and bigotry (for the record, I am not a Christian but know many who feels this way). It is true that there are certain groups who seem to have automatic immunity due to their popular status. Is this fair? NO. Is this in the best interest of honest exchange between all peoples? NO. I may disagree, and frequently do with great fervor, with the ideas of others, but it is a dialogue of difference in the light of understanding that I think is what is most beneficial to idea exchange and the hope of broadening one's own ideology. I am not overly sensitive to someone's disagreement or thoughtful criticism of my ideas, but starting a post with "This is pure garbage!" hits a very tender nerve in me. Do I take it personally? You're damn right I do. This really made me angry! Mike At 01:38 AM 12/12/99 , you wrote: >In a message dated 12/11/99 4:29:48 PM Central Standard Time, >astro@pconline.com writes: > ><< AMEN - we have done the general public a horrible disservice by feeding >them more and more crap over the years. - and then we complain that people >have bad taste! >> > >This is pure garbage! It presumes that the music that you enjoy is superior >to other forms of music. It just is not so. Snobbism! > >Jon > From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 02:54:27 -0600 From: Angie Brunk To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: the music thread Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've found the thread on listening to music very interesting, though I've been disappointed to see spots of "my music is better than your music." I'm disturbed even more by the occassional posts suggesting that either the listener or the composer is to blame if someone doesn't like or "get" a particular piece of music. I try to be open minded, but not so open minded that my brain falls out. :-) I have my own tastes in music, but trying to classify them would challenge even David Guion. I'm not terribly fond of most of the "top 40" stuff that is playing right now. I'd rather be staked to an aunt hill than listen to most country or rap, but I live in the real world. Every so often, I have to spend long periods of time in the car with my little sister, or father, or worst of all, one of my friends decides it's time to drag Angie out for her annual trip to a night club. On these occassions I'm exposed to things that I don't normally listen to. I always find at least a few tunes that speak to me. I just bought my first country CD today; Rex Hobart and the Misery Boys-Forever Always Ends. Now this is old fashioned tear in your beer-my dog died and my wife left me country music. IOW, the kind of country music I heard a lot growing up, and the kind I most enjoy making fun of today. Why did I make the trip to my local Borders to buy the CD? An old and dear friend happens to play steel guitar and other instruments in the band. He and I were friends from earliest childhood to high school, but as is almost ineviatable, lost touch when we went to college. He is a lapsed trombone player. He used to tie my hair to my tuning slide in band. (How's that for mandatory trombone content?) I'd heard vague rumors that he was in a honky-tonk band, but I couldn't believe it. We ran into each other again, and has a nice chat. He told me about the band, and we exchanged our views on music. I just *had* hear the CD. You won't see me sitting around obscure hole in the wall county bars-the kind with chicken wire around the stage-very often, but I was impressed by the level of musicianship. I was especially impressed with Nate's performance on steel guitar and harmonica. He played skillfully, but still sounded like he was having fun. He managed to inject his own style into his riffs without being a showoff or letting the music suffer. I probably couldn't pick a steel guitar out of a line-up, but he seemed to make the thing speak. I probably don't enjoy this on the same level as someone who listens to county on a regular basis. Quite frankly, I don't want to. I just want to kick back with something completely different from what I normally listen to and laught at a few goofy memories. Angie Brunk-The Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner 'An it harm none do as ye will. "Well behaved women rarely make history"-Laurel Thacker Ulrich "I'd rather be his whore than your wife" just doesn't have the same sting as "I'd rather kiss a Wookee." From ???@??? Mon Dec 13 08:10:48 1999 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 03:01:07 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: angie@cybersolvers.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: the music thread Message-ID: <199912120904.DAA30465@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Angie, as usual, your post was, for me, the antidote to some previous ones (including my own :). I too don't like the idea of pointing the finger at the composer or the listener if there are disagreements about the music. >From my previous posts it would be impossible to tell that I DO like some pop stuff - a lot! I love listening to Sound Garden, Cake, and the Butt Hole Surfers in the car - and I think Ween is one of the cleverest groups going, but I would not presume to judge any of that music by the same standards as I would the classical music I enjoy. They are worlds apart and don't call for comparison. Do I think one is better than the other? No. Do I think one has more stimulating and intellectually challenging content. Sure do! M At 02:54 AM 12/12/99 , you wrote: > I've found the thread on listening to music very interesting, >though I've been disappointed to see spots of "my music is better than your >music." I'm disturbed even more by the occassional posts suggesting that >either the listener or the composer is to blame if someone doesn't like or >"get" a particular piece of music. > I try to be open minded, but not so open minded that my brain falls >out. :-) I have my own tastes in music, but trying to classify them would >challenge even David Guion. I'm not terribly fond of most of the "top 40" >stuff that is playing right now. I'd rather be staked to an aunt hill than >listen to most country or rap, but I live in the real world. Every so >often, I have to spend long periods of time in the car with my little >sister, or father, or worst of all, one of my friends decides it's time to >drag Angie out for her annual trip to a night club. On these occassions >I'm exposed to things that I don't normally listen to. I always find at >least a few tunes that speak to me. > I just bought my first country CD today; Rex Hobart >and the Misery Boys-Forever Always Ends. Now this is old fashioned tear in >your beer-my dog died and my wife left me country music. IOW, the kind of >country music I heard a lot growing up, and the kind I most enjoy making >fun of today. Why did I make the trip to my local Borders to buy the CD? > An old and dear friend happens to play steel guitar and other >instruments in the band. He and I were friends from earliest childhood to >high school, but as is almost ineviatable, lost touch when we went to >college. He is a lapsed trombone player. He used to tie my hair to my >tuning slide in band. (How's that for mandatory trombone content?) I'd >heard vague rumors that he was in a honky-tonk band, but I couldn't believe >it. We ran into each other again, and has a nice chat. He told me about >the band, and we exchanged our views on music. I just *had* hear the CD. > You won't see me sitting around obscure hole in the wall county >bars-the kind with chicken wire around the stage-very often, but I was >impressed by the level of musicianship. I was especially impressed with >Nate's performance on steel guitar and harmonica. He played skillfully, >but still sounded like he was having fun. He managed to inject his own >style into his riffs without being a showoff or letting the music suffer. >I probably couldn't pick a steel guitar out of a line-up, but he seemed to >make the thing speak. > I probably don't enjoy this on the same level as someone who >listens to county on a regular basis. Quite frankly, I don't want to. I >just want to kick back with something completely different from what I >normally listen to and laught at a few goofy memories. > > >Angie Brunk-The Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner >'An it harm none do as ye will. >"Well behaved women rarely make history"-Laurel Thacker Ulrich >"I'd rather be his whore than your wife" just doesn't have the same sting >as "I'd rather kiss a Wookee." >