TROMBONE-L Digest 1534 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) playing in the morning by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 2) Re: Ray Anderson by Jay Heltzer 3) Re: Got the Y2K Bach (was Authentic Performances)! by Joao Leao 4) Re: Career Decisions (orchestra vs. band/jazz) by David Buckley 5) Dale's Web Site by David Buckley 6) Re: question about mouthpieces and bones by "Kenneth Dowdy" 7) Re: Fw: question about mouthpieces and bones by paulel9@bellsouth.net 8) Re: playing in the morning by Amtrom1@aol.com 9) Re: playing in the morning by "Richard Human, Jr." 10) Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by Chris Waage 11) PETS (was "playing in the morning") by Mike Coyle 12) Re: playing in the morning by Mike Coyle 13) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by Mike Coyle 14) RE: Pets by REOnofreyJ@aol.com 15) Re: Career Decisions (orchestra vs. band/jazz) by Mike Coyle 16) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by Larry & Carol Bronisz 17) Re: playing in the morning by paulel9@bellsouth.net 18) Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") by "Kenneth Dowdy" 19) morning playing and some theory by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 20) Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") by James Scott 21) F-Attachment Recommendation? (2) by MBennetts@aol.com 22) F-Attachment Recommendation? (1) by MBennetts@aol.com 23) RE: Conn 52H by "Hugo García Sampedro" 24) Re: F-Attachment Recommendation? (1) by Mike Coyle 25) Re: F-Attachment Recommendation? (2) by "Thomas Jay Beauchaine" 26) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by Bodie Pfost 27) Re: playing in the morning by Beth Lewis 28) Warm-Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by " Dan Cloutier" 29) Re: playing in the morning by MikeSuter@aol.com 30) Conn and Bach, Remington and ? by Dennis Clason 31) Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") by Dennis Clason 32) Re: playing in the morning by dcoliver@access1.net 33) Conn 88HTO vs Conn 88HO by j.grisham@pmail.net (Josh Grisham) 34) Re: playing in the morning by "Daniel Pliskin" 35) Re: playing in the morning by TonyC789@aol.com 36) Morning Playing by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 37) Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") by "Daniel Pliskin" 38) PETS by Andrewsjon@aol.com 39) Re: PETS by "Daniel Pliskin" 40) Re: Conn 88HTO vs Conn 88HO by "Rodney Ellard" 41) Re: PETS by Mike Coyle 42) Re: PETS by Andrewsjon@aol.com 43) RE: Crown tooth theory by Don Wampler 44) Re: Elvis Music by JFBermann@aol.com 45) RE: Crown tooth theory - take 2 by Don Wampler 46) new horn/MP = new chops? by "Sean Vander Veen" 47) PETS by James Scott 48) Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") by Nossy121@aol.com 49) Re: PETS by "Kenneth Dowdy" 50) trombone choir/percussion ens? by Beth Lewis 51) Pets by "Douglas Calvin" 52) Re: new horn/MP = new chops? by "John Lavoie" 53) Re: F-Attachment Recommendation? (1) by "John Lavoie" 54) Re: playing in the morning by Tbcwes@aol.com 55) Pet Poll Conclusions by Mike Coyle 56) travel success by Andrew Michael 57) The Music of Earthquakes by Andrew Michael 58) Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) by "Peter Jarnebrant" 59) Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") by "Ted R. Toulouse" From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:13:11 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: playing in the morning Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082DEC@LEE2> I feel a little silly bringing up something so mundane after the inspiring Bach threads! But, I've started a new experiment. I'm getting up 10 minutes early every morning and playing before work, just a short warmup, then maybe a short snatch of whatever is on the stand (happened to be the Bach cello suite #3 this morning). My chops in the morning feel terrible - dry, stiff, inflexible, don't want to play high or soft. So, I'm curious if any of you have the same trouble, and if you think a short morning workout is worth the effort. From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 07:56:59 -0600 From: Jay Heltzer To: RANDOLPH@ab.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ray Anderson Message-ID: <384FB52A.ADC96EF7@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Randolph wrote: > i was wondering if any person out there listenes, and enjoys, ray anderson. > i am much more of a classical musician myself but when it comes to jazz > i am alwayw intrigued by his music and his technical prowess. i was hoping > someone could offer some insight into his techniques and his equipment > such as the type of trombone he plays and mutes. Being a classical guy has nothing to do with who you should or shouldn't like from another genre. Who remembers the "What's in your CD player" thread a year or so ago? Bach, Zappa, Johnny Cash, Spice Girls... I think we were all amused and entertained. Back to Mr. Anderson, I think he is one of the more creative jazz artists around. Not to say that he is better than Mike Davis, JJ, Watrous, or whomever. His appeal to me is how expressive he can get with his unique sound and style. I consider him one of the better jazz communicators out there. He just happens to "speak a different language than some others". As to his equipment... got me! Jay From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:01:09 -0500 From: Joao Leao To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." , leao@gog.harvard.edu Subject: Re: Got the Y2K Bach (was Authentic Performances)! Message-ID: <199912091401.JAA28056@gog.harvard.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, last nite browsing through the dozens of SMP editions at Tower Records (after a superb concert at Berklee by Phil Wilson and his Rainbow Band) I ran into a sampler for "Bach 2000" what purports to be a complete edition of the known works on 153 CDs ! Anyone knows anything about this project? Are these new recordings or re-editions? Just curious. (I know it is off track but we have been off for a while, haven't we?) -Joao > So, what all the hoopla is saying is that my Walter/Wendy Carlos "Switched > On Bach" isn't an authentic performance on a period instrument? > > ;-) > > Chris > _____________________________________________ > Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > http://www.waageworks.com > > "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. > Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. > Good Judgement comes from Experience. > Experience comes from Bad Judgement." > _____________________________________________ --------------------------------------------- Joao Pedro Leao * jleao@cfa.harvard.edu Computer Systems Manager - Central Engineering Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics 1815 Massachussetts Av. , Cambridge MA 02140 Phone: (617)-496-7990 extension 124 ---------------------------------------------- "All generalizations are abusive (specially this one!)" ------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:31:33 -0500 From: David Buckley To: DyessJW@hal.lamar.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Career Decisions (orchestra vs. band/jazz) Message-ID: <384FBD45.3561AB21@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great post Wayne. What do you do in your spare time? Sure sounds like you are having a good time with your life. Amazing where asimple comment on miking and balance can lead. Have a great Christmas. Dave. Wayne Dyess wrote: > Friends, > > This discussion has made a number of jumps... was Michael Davis, then > a discussion of performing with P.A. systems, and now this. You guys > are fun! > > > > I see this as an honest question. I know, because I have often given > this serious thought (especially so when I was in college). I had > this burning desire to play professionally, but my experiences with > orchestras in those days was not nearly as good as my experiences > with bands and jazz in particular. That is... until I attended the > Aspen School of Music. That pretty much turned my head around. > Playing with a really GOOD orchestra was a whole 'nuther thing than > what I was experiencing at school. > > So I gave fleeting thoughts to a professional orchestral career as a > life-goal. But then thought, "nawwwww." I personally (that's ME) > didn't get the same thrills that I got from PLAYING in band and jazz > band. I love to PLAY. I don't especially love to sit and count > rests. But like I said -- that's ME! > > So when I made the final audition and was selected into "the World > finest" United States Navy Band, it was a thrill of a lifetime. I > still view it as such. It was one of the greatest things that ever > happened to me. That military experience, I truly believe, opened > many doors for me. By the time I was about to graduate from college, > my goals had shifted more toward a teaching career. But thanks to > the draft and the Vietnam War, I went to Washington, D.C. instead of > to the classroom (or nearest bandhall). Personally, I LOVED my 4 > years with the band. I was ready to sign the dotted line for another > 4 years, which would have most certainly have sealed my fate for a > career in the military music program. But my wife was an only child > and was terribly homesick. > > So our compromise was that I would get out of the Navy and try my > hand at teaching. If I didn't like it or missed playing too much, we > would move back to D.C. and that would be that. Al Beck, the > Assistant Leader of the Band at the time, even told me that they > would "hold a seat" for me should I change my mind. I got the > feeling they didn't make that offer with everybody. But I had proven > myself as section leader and one of only 4 tour soloists -- so I felt > privileged at this kind offer. I also felt a sense of security in my > future. Nice, indeed! > > The rest, as they say, is history. I took a good, solid and > well-established junior high band job in southeast Texas and have > been here ever since. From day one, I was offered a position at > Lamar University to be their adjunct instructor of trombone. They > had never had a trombone playing trombone teacher before (ain't THAT > sad?). I did that for 2 years while leading my junior high band to > all sorts of honors, including the coveted Sweepstakes award (yes, > Virginia -- my band marched at marching contest. We had 9th graders, > too). We also played music like "The Trombone King", a transcription > from the Verdi "Requiem", and Alfred Reed's "The Music Makers." > > Then I was offered the full-time position as Instructor of Trombone > and Assistant Marching Band Director at Lamar, and I've been here > ever since. That was in 1977. I am now full professor, and have > served as Associate Director of Bands, have directed the Concert > Band, the Pep Band, the Marching Band, 2 jazz bands, and an > assortment of music education classes. My current primary > responsibilities are Director of Jazz Studies and professor of > trombone. Never a dull moment. > > Not only that, but I feel that I have the best of both worlds. > Perhaps I have the best of ALL worlds. I play in a really good > regional orchestra. We import a majority of our strings from the > Houston area. I can get my orchestral kicks and it feels pretty > good. But I also have plenty of other playing opportunities, as > well. ...opportunities that wouldn't present themselves if I were > teaching public school. > > For instance, here is a list of my playing experiences recently: > > Faculty Brass Quintet -- weddings, recitals, school concerts, etc. > Symphony of Southeast Texas -- my orchestra "fix" > Guest artist -- most recently with the Grapevine H.S. jazz band > Soloist -- recitals, orchestra, jazz band, band. > Concert Band of Southeast Texas (semi-pro) > Wayne Dyess Orchestra -- 17-piece professional big band > Isle of Capri "Reading" big band -- "kicks" band > The Heartbeat Band -- R&B "soul" band (more FUN; no music) > Freelance work -- November included the Supremes and Temptations > Gulfcoast Trombone Band -- includes Dean McCarty (list member) > (5 bones and rhythm; a jazz group) > Gulfcoast Trombone Choir -- we had 30 at the last meeting > with Tom Izzo, guest > Jimmy Simmons Combo -- straight ahead combo jazz. More FUN! > "Just Friends" featuring Darrell Holt -- 6-piece band; society gigs. > > And I'm sure I have left something out. Oh yes -- those yearly tours > with Keith Brion and the New Sousa Band and my sub-work with the > Brass Band of Battle Creek! How could I possibly forget THAT fun????? > > After playing with a GOOD orchestra (back to that Aspen Music School > experience), my "take" on orchestral playing changed. Now, I love it > all. But I am happiest in a band. Perhaps because of my extensive > and positive experiences in band. Perhaps because the trombone is on > my face most of the time. But I am also most challenged by jazz and > improvisation, so I enjoy that as well. Mostly, however, I just LOVE > playing. > > And yes -- I also LOVE teaching! The good Lord put me right where he > wanted me. And I'm happy with His decision! > > Keep blowin'! > --Wayne Dyess > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > _/ _/ > _/ Wayne Dyess, Ed.D. Tel. +1-409-880-8146 _/ > _/ Lamar University Music Dept. _/ > _/ P.O.Box 10044, Beaumont, TX.77710 _/ > _/ _/ > _/ United Musical Instruments (UMI) _/ > _/ "If it sounds good, it is good." -Duke Ellington _/ > _/ _/ > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > Old trombone players never die; > They just slide away! From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:41:11 -0500 From: David Buckley To: Trombone-L Subject: Dale's Web Site Message-ID: <384FBF87.5533B659@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dale Sorensen just introduced me to his web site. It is a great resource for trombone players, especially students. He has a discography of trombone CDs and a list of Canadian trombone music plus a number of other things including his very busy schedule since he has moved back to PEI. Well worth a look at . Read and enjoy. Dave buckley. From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:36:02 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: question about mouthpieces and bones Message-ID: <001e01bf425b$1cee4e20$691d0f3f@default> Douglas, I'll answer your question directly and try to keep out of a flame war in the process. First, if you are on a budget (which I gather from your post), the 14H will serve you well. Second, the 6 1/2 AL is the wrong mouthpiece for that horn, at least it was for my 14H and the other half dozen that I have toyed around with. I am not against the 6 1/2 AL since the two large shank models that I have work beautifully with every .547 bore that I have tried them with. However, it seems that both the small shank Bach and the Conn versions that I have tried do not work well with the 14H. If you want something of about the same size, use the the old Conn 3 (NOT to be confused with Bach 3), which is what most 14Hs that I have seen shipped with. If, on the other hand, you like the Bach style of mouthpiece, try a 7C. It is not that much smaller, but the backbore seems to be better suited for the 14H. Personally, I prefer a much smaller mouthpiece with the 14H, but I am not going to step into that pile again. Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Calvin To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 11:35 PM Subject: Fw: question about mouthpieces and bones >(I hope this goes through this time) > >Hello again, This is quite the discussion group! I'm having a blast reading >all these and even more, feeling and hearing a lot of improvement in my horn >playing. You all are inspiring! > >My horn is a '69 Conn 14H -- in need of some fixing up of dents, etc. I'm >using a Bach 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. > >It all seems to be working alright, but I'm a complete novice about all >these things. Is this horn and mouthpiece the best combo for playing jazz, >funk and salsa? (serious range and high notes needed) Are there other >mouthpieces I should try? What inexpensive) horns would be an improvement >over mine, or should I just get mine fixed up? > > >Thanks, >Douglas Calvin > > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:55:06 -0600 From: paulel9@bellsouth.net To: lunasol@igc.org Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Fw: question about mouthpieces and bones Message-ID: <384FD0DA.15EFA5B2@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Calvin wrote: > Hello again, This is quite the discussion group! I'm having a blast reading > all these and even more, feeling and hearing a lot of improvement in my horn > playing. You all are inspiring! > > My horn is a '69 Conn 14H -- in need of some fixing up of dents, etc. I'm > using a Bach 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. > > It all seems to be working alright, but I'm a complete novice about all > these things. Is this horn and mouthpiece the best combo for playing jazz, > funk and salsa? (serious range and high notes needed) Are there other > mouthpieces I should try? What inexpensive) horns would be an improvement > over mine, or should I just get mine fixed up? Douglas, I gag at the thought of helping someone from the San Francisco-based Institute of Global Communications (IGC - http://www.igc.org), a group of anti-social socialists, whose members, for the most part, stand for the overthrow of society as we know it, and further distribution of wealth from those who have earned it to those who have not. Nevertheless, since your question about trombone selection has merit, I will respond to it. With regard to horn selection, to those of us with limited means, the best horn for us is often the horn that we already own. The Conn 14H Director is a sturdy .500 bore trombone that many of us have played. A good cleaning, dent removal, and slide alignment will make you proud of the horn and thereby give you the confidence to improve your playing. In addition to a daily practice routine, selected from those in the list archives, you might consider trying a smaller mouthpiece such as a 7C, 11C, or 12C, to improve your high range. Try not to get caught up in the mistaken notion that another instrument is necessary to play the music you like. A well-developed embouchure, daily practice, and regular lessons will get you much further than another trombone. Regards. -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:08:12 EST From: Amtrom1@aol.com To: richardt@lee.army.mil, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <0.c7fc868f.25812dec@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My quintet has been rehearsing at 8:30am all semester and I can tell you that a warmup, even if it's only 10 minutes, makes a huge difference. After you get used to playing, both physically and mentally, in the morning, it will become easier and easier. Different mornings still bring various obsticals such as stiff lips, etc, to the table to be dealt with. Therefore I have different exercises for different feelings. Generally, I have found that the Tommy Dorsey warmup (just blowing through the horn) helps significantly. I do a little buzzing starting around a Bb and gliss down to the pedal register. I have found that this gets the lips vibrating very well in the morning. Once I can get a nice resonant buzz in the trigger register I go to the horn. I'll do the normal long tones, slurs, and a few scales. I go first for a full sound (not loud) and then finish up with soft articulation/response excercises. This can all be done in a span of ten minutes, or an hour if you like. After I have done this, I'm good to go for a two hour quintet rehearsal. Hope this helps. From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:16:07 -0500 From: "Richard Human, Jr." To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I think practicing is a personal thing, and what works for one probably won't work for the other in exactly the same way - but we can all agree on what concept are beneficial and which ones are not. For me, and most people I have talked to, the earlier in the day you can focus your mind on what your day is going to entail, the more productive you are going to be. As a musician, I very much enjoy a cup of tea along with a nice, long Baker routine in morning the because 1. I like tea 2. It gets my body doing something - lungs and face moving 3. It helps me to focus my mind on a singular task 4. It aggravates my cat - and that's always fun :-) 5. I like playing the trombone - so it puts me in a good mood 6. My neighbors wouldn't know when to wake up otherwise. :-) I have found, also, that warming up early equals some really nice chops later in the day. If I have to wait to have a first warm up until an hour before a rehearsal or gig at night, then I feel less ready to play. This could be completely in my head - my face might not even care - but to me it doesn't matter. I play better when I feel that I am ready, and I feel more ready when I've put in my time earlier in the day. It's money in the bank. It may be something you have to get used to - it may be something that isn't for you. I think the concept of beginning your day with the horn is a good one - you may need to alter the time you do it, the method in which you do it, or both. I warm up very slowly - that's just me. Some people can just rip into it, I can't. You'll have to find the method that works best for you. Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who will listen that every brass player should warm down after every gig or rehearsal. Five minutes will do it. Some people swear by it, others swear at it. For me - it's very important. I have yet to meet an athlete who changes clothes and leaves the gym before relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, stretching. It can only help. Good luck! Richard > From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL > Reply-To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL > Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:13:11 -0500 > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Subject: playing in the morning > > I feel a little silly bringing up something so mundane after the inspiring > Bach threads! But, > > I've started a new experiment. I'm getting up 10 minutes early every > morning and playing before work, just a short warmup, then maybe a short > snatch of whatever is on the stand (happened to be the Bach cello suite #3 > this morning). My chops in the morning feel terrible - dry, stiff, > inflexible, don't want to play high or soft. So, I'm curious if any of you > have the same trouble, and if you think a short morning workout is worth the > effort. > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:40:38 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Richard Human wrote: >Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who will listen that every brass >player should warm down after every gig or rehearsal. Five minutes will do >it. Some people swear by it, others swear at it. For me - it's very >important. I have yet to meet an athlete who changes clothes and leaves the >gym before relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, stretching. It can only >help. What does everyone use for warmdown? I use long tones, starting on pedal Bb, and descending as low as I can go, pianissimo. Suggestions? Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:46:07 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: richard@trombone.org Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: PETS (was "playing in the morning") Message-ID: <199912091648.KAA01844@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Richard, et al: You mentioned your cat and that reminds me of a debate (granted, a stupid debate) that a bunch of us at gig once had. Somebody suggested that brass players (actually, it eventually got into a discussion of all musicians) had very distinct pet preferences (particularly between cats and dogs). He said that trumpet and tuba players tended to be dog people and trombonists and horn players tended to be cat people! Though I generally hate generalisms (irony intended :) I couldn't say much as I own two cats and two other trombone players I know own cats - one of them (a rather famous trombonist) currently has about 5 cats!! And, every trumpet player I could think of, if they had any pets, had dogs! I wanna know what pets you guys have. Now I know this is absurd and totally silly, but, what the heck, we have all wasted our time on dumber things, probably. List type and name of pet - I'll start: Cats: Milhouse & Lucy (both of whom are watching me type right now) You have my total permission to flame me for wasting your time :) Mike At 11:16 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I think practicing is a personal thing, and what works for one probably >won't work for the other in exactly the same way - but we can all agree on >what concept are beneficial and which ones are not. > >For me, and most people I have talked to, the earlier in the day you can >focus your mind on what your day is going to entail, the more productive you >are going to be. > >As a musician, I very much enjoy a cup of tea along with a nice, long Baker >routine in morning the because > > 1. I like tea > 2. It gets my body doing something - lungs and face moving > 3. It helps me to focus my mind on a singular task > 4. It aggravates my cat - and that's always fun :-) > 5. I like playing the trombone - so it puts me in a good mood > 6. My neighbors wouldn't know when to wake up otherwise. :-) > >I have found, also, that warming up early equals some really nice chops >later in the day. If I have to wait to have a first warm up until an hour >before a rehearsal or gig at night, then I feel less ready to play. This >could be completely in my head - my face might not even care - but to me it >doesn't matter. I play better when I feel that I am ready, and I feel more >ready when I've put in my time earlier in the day. It's money in the bank. > >It may be something you have to get used to - it may be something that isn't >for you. I think the concept of beginning your day with the horn is a good >one - you may need to alter the time you do it, the method in which you do >it, or both. I warm up very slowly - that's just me. Some people can just >rip into it, I can't. You'll have to find the method that works best for >you. > >Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who will listen that every brass >player should warm down after every gig or rehearsal. Five minutes will do >it. Some people swear by it, others swear at it. For me - it's very >important. I have yet to meet an athlete who changes clothes and leaves the >gym before relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, stretching. It can only >help. > > >Good luck! > >Richard > > > > >> From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL >> Reply-To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL >> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:13:11 -0500 >> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." >> Subject: playing in the morning >> >> I feel a little silly bringing up something so mundane after the inspiring >> Bach threads! But, >> >> I've started a new experiment. I'm getting up 10 minutes early every >> morning and playing before work, just a short warmup, then maybe a short >> snatch of whatever is on the stand (happened to be the Bach cello suite #3 >> this morning). My chops in the morning feel terrible - dry, stiff, >> inflexible, don't want to play high or soft. So, I'm curious if any of you >> have the same trouble, and if you think a short morning workout is worth the >> effort. >> > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:47:11 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <199912091649.KAA01937@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Richard, Nope, I wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and play like a god! NOT!!!!! Actually, these days I wake up feeling like I have been beaten with a bag of doorknobs (I'm a little stressed). However, I must say that I think my playing is actually better in the morning and if I do a short warmup like you described, in the morning, I play better all day. I'm sure this is one of the most variable and subjective things we will talk about for quite some time. It will be interesting to hear what other people feel about this. At times when I feel my chops are less flexible than others, I'll take the time to place a warm (not hot), damp washcloth on my lips for a minute or two (this is kind of a variation on Glenn Gould's practice of soaking his hands and forearms in hot (not warm) water for about 15 minutes prior to playing. I'm also a keyboardist and I have tried Gould's practice there as well - I think it is a little obsessive (imagine that from Mr. Gould! :) Also, especially in the winter when the air in the house is generally rather dry, I run room humidifiers, especially in the music room where the piano resides, to maintain the level of 50% relative humidity and that helps the morning "dryout" syndrome. In addition, I use lip balm or cream or oil in the winter fairly consistently to avoid the "dryout". Recently I have been using pure vitamin-E oil - a lot of commercial lip balms contain chemicals which are not particularly good for you in the long run and some (i.e. blistex) actually create a dependency and will cause really dry lips if discontinued (until you totally "detox" from the stuff). Every brass player I know has some sort of lip care regimen and I look forward to hearing from y'all on this. We could have a trombonist health & beauty tips page :) Mike At 08:13 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >I feel a little silly bringing up something so mundane after the inspiring >Bach threads! But, > >I've started a new experiment. I'm getting up 10 minutes early every >morning and playing before work, just a short warmup, then maybe a short >snatch of whatever is on the stand (happened to be the Bach cello suite #3 >this morning). My chops in the morning feel terrible - dry, stiff, >inflexible, don't want to play high or soft. So, I'm curious if any of you >have the same trouble, and if you think a short morning workout is worth the >effort. > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:48:58 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: <199912091654.KAA02682@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I do the same thing, Chris. MC At 10:40 AM 12/9/99 -0600, you wrote: >Richard Human wrote: >>Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who will listen that every brass >>player should warm down after every gig or rehearsal. Five minutes will do >>it. Some people swear by it, others swear at it. For me - it's very >>important. I have yet to meet an athlete who changes clothes and leaves the >>gym before relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, stretching. It can only >>help. > > >What does everyone use for warmdown? I use long tones, starting on pedal >Bb, and descending as low as I can go, pianissimo. > >Suggestions? > >Chris >_____________________________________________ >Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > http://www.waageworks.com > >"Wisdom comes from Knowledge. > Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. > Good Judgement comes from Experience. > Experience comes from Bad Judgement." >_____________________________________________ > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:56:02 EST From: REOnofreyJ@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Pets Message-ID: <0.c3e44a4b.25813922@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, Interesting concept, however, I have 2 dogs, Lhasa Apsos -- Molly and Kelly. Maybe I'm an aberration, but I happen to hate cats (not to mention being severely allergic). Thanks, Rick Onofrey From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:05:38 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: txtbone@earthlink.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Career Decisions (orchestra vs. band/jazz) Message-ID: <199912091707.LAA04588@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wayne wrote: >>The good Lord put me right where he >> wanted me. And I'm happy with His decision! >> >> Keep blowin'! >> --Wayne Dyess Hey Wayne, you are a truly fortunate man. God seems to have decided to be far more subtle in reveaing his/hers/its reasons for my existence. If envy were not a deadly sin, I would feel it in your direction. ;) Your experience is inspiring - keep up the good work, bud. MC >> >> For instance, here is a list of my playing experiences recently: >> >> Faculty Brass Quintet -- weddings, recitals, school concerts, etc. >> Symphony of Southeast Texas -- my orchestra "fix" >> Guest artist -- most recently with the Grapevine H.S. jazz band >> Soloist -- recitals, orchestra, jazz band, band. >> Concert Band of Southeast Texas (semi-pro) >> Wayne Dyess Orchestra -- 17-piece professional big band >> Isle of Capri "Reading" big band -- "kicks" band >> The Heartbeat Band -- R&B "soul" band (more FUN; no music) >> Freelance work -- November included the Supremes and Temptations >> Gulfcoast Trombone Band -- includes Dean McCarty (list member) >> (5 bones and rhythm; a jazz group) >> Gulfcoast Trombone Choir -- we had 30 at the last meeting >> with Tom Izzo, guest >> Jimmy Simmons Combo -- straight ahead combo jazz. More FUN! >> "Just Friends" featuring Darrell Holt -- 6-piece band; society gigs. >> >> And I'm sure I have left something out. Oh yes -- those yearly tours >> with Keith Brion and the New Sousa Band and my sub-work with the >> Brass Band of Battle Creek! How could I possibly forget THAT fun????? >> >> After playing with a GOOD orchestra (back to that Aspen Music School >> experience), my "take" on orchestral playing changed. Now, I love it >> all. But I am happiest in a band. Perhaps because of my extensive >> and positive experiences in band. Perhaps because the trombone is on >> my face most of the time. But I am also most challenged by jazz and >> improvisation, so I enjoy that as well. Mostly, however, I just LOVE >> playing. >> >> And yes -- I also LOVE teaching! The good Lord put me right where he >> wanted me. And I'm happy with His decision! >> >> Keep blowin'! >> --Wayne Dyess >> >> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ >> _/ _/ >> _/ Wayne Dyess, Ed.D. Tel. +1-409-880-8146 _/ >> _/ Lamar University Music Dept. _/ >> _/ P.O.Box 10044, Beaumont, TX.77710 _/ >> _/ _/ >> _/ United Musical Instruments (UMI) _/ >> _/ "If it sounds good, it is good." -Duke Ellington _/ >> _/ _/ >> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ >> >> Old trombone players never die; >> They just slide away! > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:21:15 -0700 From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: <4.1.19991209101629.00b4f820@mail.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For warm down I use the Prelude (mvt 1) of Bach Cello Suite #1. At the end I make sure to play pp where there are G's above the staff. I use it for a warmup too. - Larry At 10:40 AM 12/9/99 -0600, Chris Waage wrote: >Richard Human wrote: >>Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who will listen that every brass >>player should warm down after every gig or rehearsal. Five minutes will do >>it. Some people swear by it, others swear at it. For me - it's very >>important. I have yet to meet an athlete who changes clothes and leaves the >>gym before relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, stretching. It can only >>help. > > >What does everyone use for warmdown? I use long tones, starting on pedal >Bb, and descending as low as I can go, pianissimo. > >Suggestions? > >Chris >_____________________________________________ >Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > http://www.waageworks.com > >"Wisdom comes from Knowledge. > Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. > Good Judgement comes from Experience. > Experience comes from Bad Judgement." >_____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:06:11 -0600 From: paulel9@bellsouth.net To: richard@trombone.org Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <384FE183.3C86A19@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Richard Human, Jr." wrote: > I have found, also, that warming up early equals some really nice chops > later in the day. If I have to wait to have a first warm up until an hour > before a rehearsal or gig at night, then I feel less ready to play. This > could be completely in my head - my face might not even care - but to me it > doesn't matter. I play better when I feel that I am ready, and I feel more > ready when I've put in my time earlier in the day. It's money in the bank. > This is the first time I've heard someone other than me say that. I've got an important gig tonight at 8 PM. The first thing I did this morning was to review the day's plans, then pick up the horn and do my warmup routine. To do well this evening, I'll need good chops, and the morning warmup almost certainly guarantees that it will happen this evening! -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:15:58 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") Message-ID: <001601bf4269$11b5f540$ea1a0f3f@default> So much for generalizations! My family's pets are all rodents, birds and fish. My two "daughters" are Annabelle and Isabelle, who both happen to be Norway Rats. My oldest son's (the trombone player) pet is Ovtavian Augustus Caesar, a grey and white speckled mouse. The family favorite for a while (and my fourth "son") was the recently departed Cocoa Bear, a rather large brown Guinea Pig. Regarding cats; my wife and I feed squirrels as out pastime. Cats that find their way into my back yard become rapidly aquatinted with the marksmanship that I learned in years of competitive shooting. Fortunately for them, my living within the city limits me to a BB gun of rather low power, so the peck they get on the butt is mostly symbolic. BTW, rats are quite fond of music, and are very entertained when my wife plays her flute, or I my recorder. They are not real impressed with the trombone, but what would you expect from an animal called "the devil's lapdog". Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Mike Coyle To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 10:49 AM Subject: PETS (was "playing in the morning") >Richard, et al: > >You mentioned your cat and that reminds me of a debate (granted, a stupid >debate) that a bunch of us at gig once had. Somebody suggested that brass >players (actually, it eventually got into a discussion of all musicians) >had very distinct pet preferences (particularly between cats and dogs). > >He said that trumpet and tuba players tended to be dog people and >trombonists and horn players tended to be cat people! Though I generally >hate generalisms (irony intended :) I couldn't say much as I own two cats >and two other trombone players I know own cats - one of them (a rather >famous trombonist) currently has about 5 cats!! And, every trumpet player >I could think of, if they had any pets, had dogs! > >I wanna know what pets you guys have. Now I know this is absurd and totally >silly, but, what the heck, we have all wasted our time on dumber things, >probably. > >List type and name of pet - I'll start: > >Cats: >Milhouse & Lucy (both of whom are watching me type right now) > >You have my total permission to flame me for wasting your time :) > >Mike > >At 11:16 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>I think practicing is a personal thing, and what works for one probably >>won't work for the other in exactly the same way - but we can all agree on >>what concept are beneficial and which ones are not. >> >>For me, and most people I have talked to, the earlier in the day you can >>focus your mind on what your day is going to entail, the more productive you >>are going to be. >> >>As a musician, I very much enjoy a cup of tea along with a nice, long Baker >>routine in morning the because >> >> 1. I like tea >> 2. It gets my body doing something - lungs and face moving >> 3. It helps me to focus my mind on a singular task >> 4. It aggravates my cat - and that's always fun :-) >> 5. I like playing the trombone - so it puts me in a good mood >> 6. My neighbors wouldn't know when to wake up otherwise. :-) >> >>I have found, also, that warming up early equals some really nice chops >>later in the day. If I have to wait to have a first warm up until an hour >>before a rehearsal or gig at night, then I feel less ready to play. This >>could be completely in my head - my face might not even care - but to me it >>doesn't matter. I play better when I feel that I am ready, and I feel more >>ready when I've put in my time earlier in the day. It's money in the bank. >> >>It may be something you have to get used to - it may be something that isn't >>for you. I think the concept of beginning your day with the horn is a good >>one - you may need to alter the time you do it, the method in which you do >>it, or both. I warm up very slowly - that's just me. Some people can just >>rip into it, I can't. You'll have to find the method that works best for >>you. >> >>Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who will listen that every brass >>player should warm down after every gig or rehearsal. Five minutes will do >>it. Some people swear by it, others swear at it. For me - it's very >>important. I have yet to meet an athlete who changes clothes and leaves the >>gym before relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, stretching. It can only >>help. >> >> >>Good luck! >> >>Richard >> >> >> >> >>> From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL >>> Reply-To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL >>> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:13:11 -0500 >>> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." >>> Subject: playing in the morning >>> >>> I feel a little silly bringing up something so mundane after the inspiring >>> Bach threads! But, >>> >>> I've started a new experiment. I'm getting up 10 minutes early every >>> morning and playing before work, just a short warmup, then maybe a short >>> snatch of whatever is on the stand (happened to be the Bach cello suite #3 >>> this morning). My chops in the morning feel terrible - dry, stiff, >>> inflexible, don't want to play high or soft. So, I'm curious if any of you >>> have the same trouble, and if you think a short morning workout is worth >the >>> effort. >>> >> > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:32:12 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: morning playing and some theory Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082DF0@LEE2> One of my theories is that whenever I find it difficult to play something, that by definition becomes something I need to work on. If I can't play well in the morning, then I need to work on it until I can. Thus, I welcome finding things I do badly, because they represent opportunity. (Yes, I have no shortage of this kind of opportunity ) But it depends a little on why. If it is just my body and/or mind not being used to playing early, perseverance should take care of it. If it is insufficient recovery time from my last evening practice, then it may get worse. (This is where the fuzzy line being trombone playing as a skill event, requiring frequent and volume practice, and as a strength event, requiring brief, intense, and infrequent workouts comes in.) That is why I am curious as to your results from morning practice periods. I have been doing a lot of reading about weightlifting and bodybuilding since the last mention on the list of some radical new theories. I am amazed at how hard it is to sort out fact from the hype, fanatical opinions, half-baked theories, superstitions, and high dollar nutritional supplement advertising. These guys/gals are much worse than us! But it now seems to be becoming clear that a lot of people are making much better progress by working very intensely and using surprisingly long recovery periods - sometimes two or three weeks between workouts. I am now lifting weights once a week for 25 minutes and seem to be getting steady benefits. I don't look like Arnold (yet!) but I have toned up and the back twinges and shoulder aches I used to get if I played standing for too long have disappeared. I still believe that trombone is more skill than strength, and even if it were not true, my personal deficits for the type playing I do are much more skill than strength related. But I wonder how much range improvement you might get, if you played every third day, etc. Or, maybe my morning play shouldn't be on trombone at all - maybe that is the time to be working on a double. yours, /tim From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:44:14 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: Mike Coyle Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mike, Sorry, but this trombonist is definitely a "dog person". I'm allergic to cats, although I like them well enough. This topic is timely for me, since I had to put down my 13 year-old Golden Retriever cross a couple of weeks ago due to bone cancer. He was the ultimate "trombone player's dog" - he loved to hang out (usually in the way of slides) when trombone quartets were being played, or when a brass quintet was rehearsing here. Once, when I was preparing for an audition, and was aggressively "going after" the Mahler 3rd solo, I stopped playing, wondering "what's that sound"? I realized that it was him snoring! I guess my playing wasn't very exciting that day after all! Anyway, my vote will always be in the "dog column" in this debate - hope there's enough trombone content in this thread. Jim Scott Calgary Philharmonic On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Mike Coyle wrote: > > > Richard, et al: > > You mentioned your cat and that reminds me of a debate (granted, a stupid > debate) that a bunch of us at gig once had. Somebody suggested that brass > players (actually, it eventually got into a discussion of all musicians) > had very distinct pet preferences (particularly between cats and dogs). > > He said that trumpet and tuba players tended to be dog people and > trombonists and horn players tended to be cat people! Though I generally > hate generalisms (irony intended :) I couldn't say much as I own two cats > and two other trombone players I know own cats - one of them (a rather > famous trombonist) currently has about 5 cats!! And, every trumpet player > I could think of, if they had any pets, had dogs! > > I wanna know what pets you guys have. Now I know this is absurd and totally > silly, but, what the heck, we have all wasted our time on dumber things, > probably. > > List type and name of pet - I'll start: > > Cats: > Milhouse & Lucy (both of whom are watching me type right now) > > You have my total permission to flame me for wasting your time :) > > Mike > > At 11:16 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I think practicing is a personal thing, and what works for one probably > >won't work for the other in exactly the same way - but we can all agree on > >what concept are beneficial and which ones are not. > > > >For me, and most people I have talked to, the earlier in the day you can > >focus your mind on what your day is going to entail, the more productive you > >are going to be. > > > >As a musician, I very much enjoy a cup of tea along with a nice, long Baker > >routine in morning the because > > > > 1. I like tea > > 2. It gets my body doing something - lungs and face moving > > 3. It helps me to focus my mind on a singular task > > 4. It aggravates my cat - and that's always fun :-) > > 5. I like playing the trombone - so it puts me in a good mood > > 6. My neighbors wouldn't know when to wake up otherwise. :-) > > > >I have found, also, that warming up early equals some really nice chops > >later in the day. If I have to wait to have a first warm up until an hour > >before a rehearsal or gig at night, then I feel less ready to play. This > >could be completely in my head - my face might not even care - but to me it > >doesn't matter. I play better when I feel that I am ready, and I feel more > >ready when I've put in my time earlier in the day. It's money in the bank. > > > >It may be something you have to get used to - it may be something that isn't > >for you. I think the concept of beginning your day with the horn is a good > >one - you may need to alter the time you do it, the method in which you do > >it, or both. I warm up very slowly - that's just me. Some people can just > >rip into it, I can't. You'll have to find the method that works best for > >you. > > > >Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who will listen that every brass > >player should warm down after every gig or rehearsal. Five minutes will do > >it. Some people swear by it, others swear at it. For me - it's very > >important. I have yet to meet an athlete who changes clothes and leaves the > >gym before relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, stretching. It can only > >help. > > > > > >Good luck! > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >> From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL > >> Reply-To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL > >> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:13:11 -0500 > >> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > >> Subject: playing in the morning > >> > >> I feel a little silly bringing up something so mundane after the inspiring > >> Bach threads! But, > >> > >> I've started a new experiment. I'm getting up 10 minutes early every > >> morning and playing before work, just a short warmup, then maybe a short > >> snatch of whatever is on the stand (happened to be the Bach cello suite #3 > >> this morning). My chops in the morning feel terrible - dry, stiff, > >> inflexible, don't want to play high or soft. So, I'm curious if any of you > >> have the same trouble, and if you think a short morning workout is worth > the > >> effort. > >> > > > > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:00:58 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: F-Attachment Recommendation? (2) Message-ID: <0.87dc7709.2581485a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like I said in the other posting, I'm working with an f-attachment for the first time. I've got a part to play on Sunday that involves playing successive 1/8 notes of e-flat in the bass clef followed by e-flat below the bass clef. Please don't snicker when you hear that I'm having trouble hitting the lower e-flat cleanly. Last night I was woodshedding the piece and found that it was easier to get cleanly on the lower e-flat if I also use the trigger to play the higher e-flat, even though it's not needed for the higher one. Reasons seems to be that (1) I don't have to adjust the slide position between notes and (2) the horn's resistance stays the same from the higher note to the lower, since the f-attachment is engaged for both notes. I know that I should ask my trombone teacher, but like most 55-year old amateurs, I haven't had a trombone teacher for many years (though that might change soon). So meantime, I would appreciate your comments. Is this the "best" way to play that pattern? Is it a sloppy amateur shortcut that I should avoid, while learning to play the instrument properly? Is it something I should do if it "works for me?" Thanks in advance. Mike Bennett From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:00:55 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: F-Attachment Recommendation? (1) Message-ID: <0.c661bebd.25814857@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just purchased a wonderful almost-new Conn 88HTO, the first instrument I've ever owned or operated with an f-attachment. I'm working on getting some facility with the f-attachment, and when I work on using it for any length of time (even for 30 minutes), my left hand ends up getting numb (particularly the thumb) and takes a few hours to completely recover. It's tolerable, but if there's an easy way to stop doing that to myself, I'd like to know. Any advice? Multiple choice suggestions I've thought of are as follows. I'd particularly enjoy hearing that choice 3 is correct, and what you would fill in in the blank. 1. That's just the way it is. If you don't want your thumb to fall asleep, play your pea-shooter. 2. Experiment until you find a grip that doesn't make your thumb fall asleep. Everybody's hand is different, so it's something you have to learn for yourself.\ 3. It would probably help to adjust as follows: ___________________ Thanks in advance. Mike Bennett From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:17:57 -0300 From: "Hugo García Sampedro" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Conn 52H Message-ID: <01bf4271$b7f52fe0$LocalHost@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << The drawbacks...at least w/the bored out 6 1/2AL m'pce I'm using, ....>> Hi Taking advantage about this issue, I would like to share my experience about .525/.547 dual bore slides. (I own an Edwards .525 / .547 one). What I feel about this dual bore slide is that the regular tenor shank mouthpieces (in fact their backbores) don't carry enough air to full fill the horn (obviously, according to my taste). As this slide has removable leadpipes, if you put no leadpipe in it, you can accommodate a large shank / backbore mouthpiece directly in the inside of the inner slide and try it. For me this makes a big difference in the sound and feel. Obviously, as it don't have leadpipe it has some drawbacks (specially in the high register) and I don't use it in this way (also it goes too further into the pipe), but this makes me think that at least something is right (makes sense) about my theory. Once I asked Edwards if they made leadpipes in this fashion and the answer was "no". Perhaps sometime I will order a special one from a repairmen. Also, certain German brands that make dual bore trombones make the .525 / .547 available to use with large shank mouthpieces. If someone has some ideas, opinions, etc. concerning this, I will be grateful to here about them. Thanks a lot -Hugo From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 12:39:18 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: MBennetts@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: F-Attachment Recommendation? (1) Message-ID: <199912091841.MAA16896@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mike, I used to play an 88H and a Conn 62H (double valve bass trombone). I never had the problem you have described with those horns. However, I switched to a Bach 42B many years ago and found that numbness problem also. Two things I would recommend: 1. Give it time, it takes time to adjust to a new instrument and you'll eventually find a comfortable position and your body will strengthen the muscles needed to accommodate the extra girth and weight of the f-attachment horn. 2. In my case, I found that the switch to a new horn and hand position was making me tense up a bit. The more tense I was (trigger hand, shoulders, neck) the more numb I would get. When I consciously tried to relax my grip things got better. That is much easier said than done I realize, but if you try to be aware of it you'll eventually be able to relax your grip. I know other people who have had the same problem and in most cases it was too tight a grip that was causing the problem. Good luck, Mike At 01:00 PM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have just purchased a wonderful almost-new Conn 88HTO, the first instrument >I've ever owned or operated with an f-attachment. I'm working on getting >some facility with the f-attachment, and when I work on using it for any >length of time (even for 30 minutes), my left hand ends up getting numb >(particularly the thumb) and takes a few hours to completely recover. It's >tolerable, but if there's an easy way to stop doing that to myself, I'd like >to know. Any advice? Multiple choice suggestions I've thought of are as >follows. I'd particularly enjoy hearing that choice 3 is correct, and what >you would fill in in the blank. > >1. That's just the way it is. If you don't want your thumb to fall asleep, >play your pea-shooter. >2. Experiment until you find a grip that doesn't make your thumb fall >asleep. Everybody's hand is different, so it's something you have to learn >for yourself.\ >3. It would probably help to adjust as follows: ___________________ > >Thanks in advance. > >Mike Bennett > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:02:15 -0800 From: "Thomas Jay Beauchaine" To: "List Trombone" Subject: Re: F-Attachment Recommendation? (2) Message-ID: <004d01bf4277$eae54a60$60a61ad0@2fast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, IMHOP there are no wrong positions and/or times to use the f-attach. If it works, use it. I am a huge fan of alternate positions, I've never played with anyone who uses them more than I do. And I work a lot less than they do! In high school, my band director (who also is a trombonist) taught me an interesting practice technique. You play a piece and you must go from pos. 1 out until you have exhausted the positions available and then you may turn your slide around and do the same coming in. Does that make any sense to you? The slide is going all the way out and all the way in, sometimes there are quick turnarounds, depending upon where in the staff you are, but it is an excellent way to really learn how many ways there are to play a passage. You can do it with the f-attach too, finding all the positions with the horn, in essence, in the key of F. Don't get caught up in just using "typical" positions with and w/o the f-attach. Use everything your horn gives you. I'm interested in what others will say on this subject as well. Good question! Tom Beauchaine Musikapelle Leavenworth Moses Lake Community Orchestra From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:11:38 -0800 (PST) From: Bodie Pfost To: Chris Waage Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I do glissandi. Starting from low Bb...down a half step, back to Bb, down a whole step, back to Bb, etc. And then I do it an octave below in the pedal range. It works really well. And if I've had an especially hard day of playing 6+ hrs, I will ice my chops when I get home. It keeps the swelling down. -- Bodie Pfost > > What does everyone use for warmdown? I use long tones, starting on pedal > Bb, and descending as low as I can go, pianissimo. > > Suggestions? > > Chris > _____________________________________________ > Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > http://www.waageworks.com > > "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. > Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. > Good Judgement comes from Experience. > Experience comes from Bad Judgement." > _____________________________________________ > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:29:47 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: "Richard Human, Jr." Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I just thought I'd add my 2 cents here... I've always appreciated having an AM warm-up, but never particularly enjoyed practicing/ensemble playing in the morning. However, this summer I played with the orchestra at Interlochen, which rehearsed at a gruelling 8:20 AM (to 10:50) five days a week. I was always there by 8 AM, as were most of the other brass players. It was a real challenge to not only get to a rehearsal at that hour, but to be alert AND able to play 1st part. During that time, I found that I needed very little warm-up (if any) later in the day IF I got it done in the morning (a real plus for those times when you have a half hour or so to practice and don't want to spend it warming up). Anyway, in case anyone cares, I found that the sooner I moved from long tones to two+ octave slurs in the morning, the better. Also, I think that the physical differences between our bodies in the morning (vs. afternoon) should be considered in deciding whether or not to do all of your practicing in the morning. As brass players we are in many ways our own instruments, so the fact that the "instrument" is radically different in the morning than in the afternoon/evening should be considered. I'm no doctor, but I suspect that things like circulation are a lot worse in the morning. I've had some tendonitis problems, and I know that practicing right after I get up or in a cold room does not do the tendons/muscles any good at all due to slower circulation (applying heat/aerobic exercise before practicing seems to help). So I do most of my _practicing_ in the afternoon after I've had the chance to "wake up" a little more. It should be pointed out that I don't feel that AM playing causes tendonitis; it just doesn't help the situation. All this probably doesn't apply to anyone who's uninjured, but does to those wanting to prevent injuries. Beth From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:35:06 -0800 From: " Dan Cloutier" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Warm-Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:16:07 Richard Human, Jr. wrote: >Finally, I strongly recommend to every one who >will listen that every brass player should warm >down after every gig or rehearsal. Five >minutes will do it. Some people swear by it, >others swear at it. For me - it's very >important. I have yet to meet an athlete who >changes clothes and leaves the gym before >relaxing, cooling down, taking a shower, >stretching. It can only help. Although I also advocate warming down occasionally (when the rehearsal or practice session was particularly strenuous), the lips--according to Gray's Ananotmy and the late Arnonld Jacobs--have a much more immediate blood supply than the legs or arms, and therefore do not need the same amount of attention as do the arms and legs when it comes to warm-up and warm-down. Having said that, sometimes a little ice on the lip after a long day really makes a difference for the rest of the week. --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:39:57 EST From: MikeSuter@aol.com To: richardt@lee.army.mil, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <0.2d37bd23.25815f8d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, I'm not sure of the attribution, but I've always heard it was said by Dave Taylor: "If you call me at 7am you won't awaken me, you'll interrupt my warm-up." I adopted this plan about 10 years ago; regardless of my day's schedule I do my full warm-up soon after I arise. It's been a boon to my consistency. All The Best, Mike From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:52:13 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Conn and Bach, Remington and ? Message-ID: <199912091952.MAA69130@nestor.NMSU.Edu> So, having considered and reconsidered my diatribe about large bore trombones, I've got a question worthy of some consideration. I really do believe that Remington (and to a lesser degree, Tom Beversdorf) had a lot to do with the Conn 8(8)H becoming the American trombone. How (and why) did the 42(B) gain ascendency? Is Conn's production move from Elkhart to Abilene solely responsible? Why the 42B? To me, the Conn 8 and the Bach 42 are very different beasts. Why not something more Conn-like? The Holton Jay Friedman helped design comes to mind. I'm tilting here at the windmills of my mind. Does anyone else have thoughts on the matter? Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:52:12 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") Message-ID: <199912091952.MAA69126@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: astro@pconline.com trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from Mike Coyle 12/09/99 10:46am -0600 > List type and name of pet - I'll start: And I'll follow Dog: Diva -- a Belgian Malinois (the short-haired Belgian Shepherd), Named because she sings along when we practice. (Diva owned me before we married). She finds my 3B especially stimulating (she's reached the point where she starts singing when I fit the slide to the bell). My 50B is ignorable, except when I'm playing a high F#. Susanna's piccolo is cause to go elsewhere. BTW, to the others out there with singing dogs -- is F# (first space TC) especially important to your dog? Ruffer Rottenweiler ignored everything except that F#, and Diva really howls up a storm for that note. Cat: Cyrus the Great -- a cameo shaded Persian. He owns the house and and the dog and us. Named for the Persian king. (Cyrus owned Susanna before we married.) Cyrus goes to find a quiet spot when someone practices. Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 07:59:59 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:57:11 GMT From: dcoliver@access1.net To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <385017a7.1d69.0@access1.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is basically exactly what Doug Yeo recommended for me to do to speed up re-acquiring my skills again after my long layoff of 17 years, and it was worth it. I think this is a must for all of those listers out there in the first 6 months (at least) of returning to the trombone. I rarely do it now, but maybe I should look into it again. I certainly need to keep at improving pedals - on tenor and bass. David Oliver Westminster, CO USA Bass/Tenor Trombone, Denver Concert Band >I feel a little silly bringing up something so mundane after the inspiring >Bach threads! But, > >I've started a new experiment. I'm getting up 10 minutes early every >morning and playing before work, just a short warmup, then maybe a short >snatch of whatever is on the stand (happened to be the Bach cello suite #3 >this morning). My chops in the morning feel terrible - dry, stiff, >inflexible, don't want to play high or soft. So, I'm curious if any of you >have the same trouble, and if you think a short morning workout is worth the >effort. > > ------------This message was sent using Access1 Mail! http://www.access1.net From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:33:46 -0600 From: j.grisham@pmail.net (Josh Grisham) To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Conn 88HTO vs Conn 88HO Message-ID: <199912092033.OAA02802@po.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey again list! I hate to bring up another thread about Conn 88H trombones, but I think I really need some advice on this matter. As some of you may remember, I am going into buying a Conn 88H trombone, and I've decided to go open wrap--it's what I like.. "once you go open, you never go back" I guess you could say.. now traditional wrap feels a lot different for me and I don't really like it as much. Anyway, I have the opportunity to get a brand new Conn 88HTO (with thin bell), and I don't know if I should or not. I do know that the thin bell will help with responsiveness, but I think that it could hurt sound. Can the thin bell make you have a bad sound? I've heard before that the thicker the bell you have, the better (darker I guess is the word for it) the sound that you get on the horn. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I like a really dark, fat sound, but if this horn will make my sound bad, then I might not want it. Currently, I play a Blessing B-88-O. Also, I have the option to get a standard Conn 88HYO trombone.. 88H with open wrap and yellow brass bell instead of rose. I don't really think I want the yellow brass, even though my teacher swears by it, and wants me to get one over the rose. I really want to get a darker sound, but I'm afraid that the thin bell might cause my sound to get brighter instead. Can anyone help me out very quickly? I'm in a pretty tight pinch for time! Thanks a bunch! --Josh Grisham <>< j.grisham@pmail.net From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 12:47:15 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <19991209204715.31407.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I can't whole-heartedly recommend playing in the morning. You see, I wake at about 6:00 AM. During the week, it gives me plenty of time to make the train, to work. On weekends, it means that I'll need to play trombone with a practice mute for about three hours. The added weight of the practice mute is how I tweaked my left arm. It starts to feel better by around Friday. By Saturday noon, it's back hurting again. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:54:12 EST From: TonyC789@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <0.42983765.258170f4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't play worth s**t in the morning! Luckily, my contract is set up so I never have to play before 10 AM. If I absolutely HAVE to, I play about 15 minutes of LOW notes. This usually gets me warmed up enough to be able to play before 10. WHERE'S MY FREAKIN' COFFEE! Tony Clements From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:54:28 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Morning Playing Message-ID: <007f01bf4287$966e6a60$9f5efc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007C_01BF425D.ACBE2F00"
Folks:
 
I'm going to add a different twist to this thread. I've had some talented students who have studied with me in the summer (in each case there has been a certain amount af natural ability) in the past and when the conversation came up as far as how much they practice, they never seem to have enough time, yet they're not working a job except to go to school (and this is usually middle school, not even high school or college). I ask them what time they get up, and they would say 10 AM or later in the summer time. Until Monday I have been getting up at 3AM to go to work as a newspaper carrier, a job that was great until this year with a merger & new owner and finally push came to shove and they wanted my routes after almost 9 years of faithful service. (Believe me, it was a great load lifted from my shoulders). In any event, I have been used to getting up early, and it has done wonders for my productivity the whole way around. I am aware that adolescents (sp) need more sleep, but sleeping in until 9, 10 or 11 or even later in the morning is usually a great waste of time, unless you work a 3rd shift job.  Get out of bed and play some easy things for 30-40 minutes--it really does help. It has been my experience that the students who get out of bed earlier get more done and are more productive than the sleepers. My wife would probably threaten divorce if I started playing before she left for work at the library (however, she is a viola player), but when ever the time permits, I strongly advocate doing a certain amount of playing early in the day. (Perhaps I should get a practice mute) A habit of this will mean less time needed to warmup in the afternoon for ensemble playing. I understand that this will not work for everyone, but I think it is a great habitmto get into if at all possible.
 
BTW, all of my late sleeping students have fallen by the wayside as far as productivity on the trombone. Don't sports teams have morning practice? Why shouldn't we? There's definitely something to it.
       
Paul Kemp
Chattanooga Symphony
 From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 12:55:10 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") Message-ID: <19991209205510.85085.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed cats, 3. Well, maybe 2 ¸. The Vet said one of our cats, our special needs cat, was "cognitively deficient". Did he think we'd go elsewhere if he just came out and called her stupid? DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:09:14 EST From: Andrewsjon@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: PETS Message-ID: <0.d7c7ea11.2581747a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/9/99 10:49:32 AM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: << You mentioned your cat and that reminds me of a debate (granted, a stupid debate) that a bunch of us at gig once had. Somebody suggested that brass players (actually, it eventually got into a discussion of all musicians) had very distinct pet preferences (particularly between cats and dogs). >> Hello, Cats, Dogs. Both are great. (Both taste like chicken.) (They also behave similarly in the microwave.) Jon From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 13:15:08 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: PETS Message-ID: <19991209211508.1095.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Cats, Dogs. Both are great. (Both taste like chicken.) (They also behave >similarly in the microwave.) Oh, I see you're an animal lover·you love steaks, chops and fillets. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:39:00 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Conn 88HTO vs Conn 88HO Message-ID: <004401bf428d$d05ad960$d0f094d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Take a friend to the store with you. Take your Blessing with you. Play the horns. Have him listen. Have him play. You listen. Try Sabutin's blindfold test (or close your eyes or turn around while your friend is playing). Take your head out of the equation. Use your ears. Buy the one you like the best. Or the one the Christian Lindberg endorses. Rod From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 15:43:23 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: PETS Message-ID: <199912092147.PAA08890@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Geez, let's get this guy some house plants :) M At 03:15 PM 12/9/99 , Daniel Pliskin wrote: > >>Cats, Dogs. Both are great. (Both taste like chicken.) (They also behave >>similarly in the microwave.) > > >Oh, I see you're an animal lover·you love steaks, chops and fillets. > >DanP > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:55:14 EST From: Andrewsjon@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: PETS Message-ID: <0.6a549f95.25817f42@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/9/99 3:47:50 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: << Geez, let's get this guy some house plants :) >> Mmmmm. Salad! Jon From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 16:01:07 -0600 From: Don Wampler To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu, dmw@americancentury.com Subject: RE: Crown tooth theory Message-ID: <385026A3.581BE38D@americancentury.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Coyle wrote: >>I ran across this post in the trombone-l archives and would like to know >>what others have to say about this. I happen to be one of those players >>who centers over the most prominent tooth (though I can play on the >>opposite side as well). I remember reading a story about Herbert Clarke >>which alleged that he could play equally well from one corner of his lips >>to the other........... Hi Mike, (I'm a new list member. I've read a number of the archives for the past couple of years but just recently subscribed to the daily digest.) Interesting theory and post.. My embouchure is a bit off-centered. (directly over my crown tooth, though I hadn't heard that term until this post.) I refused braces as a kid since they said I'd have to quite playing to wear them. I've consciously centered the MP at times over the years only to have it slide back the second I quit forcing it over. However, I never really noticed a decline in my playing when I pushed it over to center (then again, it never stayed long enough to tell for sure....) I decided not to worry about it once I got to college in 1977 and began playing with Susan K. Smith. She's now an Edward's artist with the Nashville Symphony and at the time, had an even more off-centered embouchure than I did. I assume she still does. As I recall, she had a "crown tooth" though I haven't seen her for years and can't be certain from my memory. Anyway, I figured if you could play like that, who cares where the MP is placed. A lesson with the great Sabutin a few months ago put any remaining concerns I had about it to rest once and for all. As he says, messing around with the embouchure must be done with GREAT care! If the one you have provides what you need, there are enough other things to worry about on the horn rather than messing around with what already works. :-) I appreciate the post though, since I had never heard of a crown tooth, even though I have one! From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:03:05 EST From: JFBermann@aol.com To: zack@pop.uky.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Elvis Music Message-ID: <0.b47976b7.25818119@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear George, A few years ago the Memphis Symphony made a pretty good album called Symphonic Elvis. The arrangements were quite good, especially an arrangement of Love Me Tender by my colleague Mike Renzi. You should contact the orchestra and see if these charts are available for rental. All My Best, Jim Bermann From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 16:11:33 -0600 From: Don Wampler To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Crown tooth theory - take 2 Message-ID: <38502915.93B40C13@americancentury.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Coyle wrote: >>I ran across this post in the trombone-l archives and would like to know >>what others have to say about this. I happen to be one of those players >>who centers over the most prominent tooth (though I can play on the >>opposite side as well). ..... Mike, Now that I've thought a bit more about your post, I believe I have a theory on the matter too.....probably nothing new.....maybe even inaccurate... It makes sense to me that the embouchure will center over the most prominent tooth. And it has little to do with "playing on the teeth" as Rick's teacher(s) taught him not to do (what did they mean Rick, perhaps pushing for volume or range?) , and actually even little to do with mouthpiece position on the lips/teeth. It has to do with air flow. Air will flow around any solid matter that impedes its forward progress. Whether you're playing low, high, loud, or soft, the lips are in contact with your teeth, though perhaps positioned a bit differently on them. If there are no gaps in your teeth, the air will flow behind your teeth and cheeks to the most prominent point near the center of your mouth before escaping out through the lips. Think of a lazy stream that narrows to a small downstream outlet. The water speeds up as it gets closer and eventually even the swirls near the banks get pushed through the opening furthest away before the stream widens again. My "newly-hatched-being-created-as-I-type" theory says that this is what happens with the crown tooth. It's the furthest point downstream prior to the flow widening again. Now, what will alter this theory a bit is if you have a gap in your teeth. In that case, the air will naturally flow through the gap even if one or the other teeth happens to protrude a little. (A wide tributary right before the narrow outlet.) Also, if you have nice pretty straight teeth with no gap, your mouthpiece position and lip muscle has more of an impact since there is a more even spread of the air in front behind the teeth. In a "crown tooth embouchure" (I think I'll use that term from now on. I like it better than "off-centered"...the latter connotes "incorrect"), mouthpiece position and lip muscles can't overcome the more forceful, natural tendency of the air flow. That's why the mouthpiece always slides back into "natural" position without being consciously kept in the middle. So, in thinking about Tim's post, I would say centering the MP over the furthest point at which the teeth meet the front of the lips (the tip of the crown tooth) would be the optimal mouthpiece position. Having said all this, I basically have no clue or research to back it up. It was still interesting to consider though. :-) From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 04:53:13 -0600 From: "Sean Vander Veen" To: "trombone list" Subject: new horn/MP = new chops? Message-ID: <002101bf42fc$c2259d20$0400a8c0@SEAN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's great to have a new horn, and the high notes just flew right out for a few days. But, it's a different story now. I struggle to get out what I HAVE to, not want I would like to. I switched from a .525 and a Bach 6-1/2AL to a new .547 and a Schilke 52. I know that the new MP is bigger, but why didn't I have any problems to begin with. My theory is that I have to use new muscles now, and that they have tired out (fast). I really like the tone I get from the MP, so I don't want to give that up. My questions are, is my theory correct and if not, what is it? And, how to make the best adjustment without causing too much damage? Do I play until it gets better, or do I take more breaks, etc... Sean From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:22:17 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: PETS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This got me thinking today - I went to school at Manhattan School of Music and Juilliard, and studied with Ed Herman (Joe Alessi's predecessor in the NY Phil). Mr. Herman had a boxer - "Edwina" - who was infamous amongst his students, because if you were having a lesson at his house and messed up - Edwina would give you "the look". She gave a real look of disgust to anyone who ever missed a note, or played something out of tune. Everyone used to laugh about it. One day at Manhattan School, a bunch of trombone players were sitting around in the cafeteria, swapping stories, and the topic of "Edwina" came up. Everyone was joking about getting "the look" after missing a high "D" in an etude, or messing up "The Ride", when one player who wasn't the strongest student at the school told us that the dog threw up during his lesson. I've never seen so many people laugh so hard for so long. Hope this (true) story still has the same effect! Jim Scott From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:44:51 EST From: Nossy121@aol.com To: astro@pconline.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") Message-ID: <0.9d2b7629.258198f3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hmmmm, my entire family id allergic to cats--I have a dog I suppose I'm not cut out to be a trombone player after all. From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:08:08 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: PETS Message-ID: <004701bf42a2$a91abc20$d51c0f3f@default> Maybe we should get Jon a pet rock :-) Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Andrewsjon@aol.com To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 3:56 PM Subject: Re: PETS >In a message dated 12/9/99 3:47:50 PM Central Standard Time, >astro@pconline.com writes: > ><< Geez, let's get this guy some house plants :) >> > >Mmmmm. Salad! > >Jon From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:17:00 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: trombone choir/percussion ens? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Does anyone know of any works for trombone choir (or quartet) and percussion ensemble? Thanks, Beth Lewis From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:43:55 -0500 From: "Douglas Calvin" To: Subject: Pets Message-ID: <001401bf42c9$2c847080$2949f7a5@sunnyside> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I'll throw in my two cents. Grew up always with two cats and a dog. Dad and Granddad owned a pet shop for many years. Spent my youth at summers on the farm....get on well with most all critters (even the occasional arch-conservative). Currently have two cockatiels -- yes birds. Pablo and AnaJosefina. They are very comical and the happiest couple I think I've met. Pablo is a great whistler. From Hank Williams to Eric Dolphy. Loves live music the best. On more than one occasion he has joined in with band practices and taken a solo here and there, to the amazement and delight of anyone around. The downside is he also loves to chew music, books and most anything else (the piano included!). Thanks for the comments on my mouthpiece and horn. Douglas Calvin From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 99 23:49:09 -0500 From: "John Lavoie" To: sean.e.vanderveen@uwrf.edu, "trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: new horn/MP = new chops? Message-ID: <304CBF41CBDA3D110804000A9C0B5C5E@webmaster.Trombonegod.zzn.com> Content-Type: text/html Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I started out on a Bundy with a 12C as a
freshman in High School.  One day they handed me
a Bach 50B with a 1 1/2 G MP.  When I went home
that night to practice, I had a lot of
difficulty hitting a Bb sitting on top of the
staff (the F sitting two ledger lines up was my
upper limit on the Bundy).  After a lot of
practice, a month later I was popping high Bb's
(4 ledger lines up) with ease.  You're
definitely right, moving to a larger mouthpiece
requires the use of more muscles than a smaller
one.  Diligent practice will help you adjust
well.

John Lavoie

From: "Sean Vander Veen"
<sean.e.vanderveen@uwrf.edu>

It's great to have a new horn, and the high
notes just flew right out for a
few days. But, it's a different story now. I
struggle to get out what I HAVE
to, not want I would like to. I switched from
a .525 and a Bach 6-1/2AL to a
new .547 and a Schilke 52. I know that the new
MP is bigger, but why didn't
I have any problems to begin with. My theory is
that I have to use new
muscles now, and that they have tired out
(fast). I really like the tone I
get from the MP, so I don't want to give that
up. My questions are, is my
theory correct and if not, what is it? And, how
to make the best adjustment
without causing too much damage? Do I play until
it gets better, or do I
take more breaks, etc...

Sean








John Lavoie
Sophomore, Ithaca College
http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb


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From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 99 00:01:32 -0500 From: "John Lavoie" To: MBennetts@aol.com, "trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: F-Attachment Recommendation? (1) Message-ID: <754CBF41CBDA3D110804000A9C0B5C5E@webmaster.Trombonegod.zzn.com> Content-Type: text/html Mime-Version: 1.0
The thumb is not a finger that I would say is
normal to have this problem with.  I had a
similar problem when I switched to a Bach 50
(read post I sent a couple minutes ago).  My
problem was a ring finger getting numb (I use
the "Yeo" grip).  It was getting numb because I
was supporting the entire weight of the horn
with that finger when it was vertical (also the
finger I used to cram it into my face, USED
to).  This was just something that I learned to
deal with until I learned how to hold the horn
more evenly with my other fingers.

My suggestion to you would be to experiment with
your grip a little, and make sure that you're
not holding up the horn with your thumb. Since
you're using it for the trigger, you should not
be supporting any weight with it.  I'm not sure
of how the Conn trigger mechanism is ste up, but
also make sure that it's not in an awkward
position, or being cut into by the edge of the
trigger (a la Bach's 'Spatula' triggers).  You
should keep your thumb (and entire body for that
matter) as relaxed as you can, don't let any
tension build up.

Now, concerning your second post about using the
trigger on the E-flat.  There is nothing wrong
with using it, but no players use it because
there is not any benefit to them to use it.  
Players learn how to develop the same sound on
each side of the instrument (Bb side and F side)
since you're not used to playing on the F side
your F side notes MAY be more fuzzy or stuffy
(having an open wrap and a thayer will greatly
reduce these symptoms). Using the trigger in the
middle register on this note might also help to
make low E-flat stand out less.  If it's what
you find works best, then by all means do it!

Good Luck,
John Lavoie


From: MBennetts@aol.com

I have just purchased a wonderful almost-new
Conn 88HTO, the first instrument
I've ever owned or operated with an f-
attachment. ÊI'm working on getting
some facility with the f-attachment, and when I
work on using it for any
length of time (even for 30 minutes), my left
hand ends up getting numb
(particularly the thumb) and takes a few hours
to completely recover. ÊIt's
tolerable, but if there's an easy way to stop
doing that to myself, I'd like
to know. Any advice? ÊMultiple choice
suggestions I've thought of are as
follows. ÊI'd particularly enjoy hearing that
choice 3 is correct, and what
you would fill in in the blank.

1. That's just the way it is. ÊIf you don't want
your thumb to fall asleep,
play your pea-shooter.
2. ÊExperiment until you find a grip that
doesn't make your thumb fall
asleep. ÊEverybody's hand is different, so it's
something you have to learn
for yourself.\
3. ÊIt would probably help to adjust as follows:
___________________

Thanks in advance.

Mike Bennett








John Lavoie
Sophomore, Ithaca College
http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb


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From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:29:28 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: richardt@lee.army.mil, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: playing in the morning Message-ID: <0.4bb53cb6.2581e9b8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I find early morning practice/warm up or whatever you call it very beneficial. After the morning practice you are ready to go all day. Also, it brings you to a focus early on in the day. I make life run smoother in my experiences. Ahhh. Can't wait until 6AM. -Wes From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 23:40:09 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Pet Poll Conclusions Message-ID: <199912100543.XAA08595@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK kids, >From the overwhelming amount of mail I got privately, my informal poll shows this: 52% of respondents own dogs 34% of respondents own cats 9% of respondents own rodents 4% of respondents own birds 1% of respondents think cats and dogs taste like chicken Interesting to note that 29% of respondents named their pets after famous musicians; 26% after ex-presidents; 14 % Hilary Clinton; 14% after Biblical characters; 9% after alcoholic beverages; 5% after characters on Baywatch; 2% after Palestinian terrorists; and 1% after household appliances. 22% of those responding also admitted to hearing voices in their heads. also: 1% said they enjoyed my posts 99% said I had far too much time on my hands MC From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:55:01 -0800 From: Andrew Michael To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: travel success Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I had to do some traveling with my horn recently and the trip also included a day of work out in the desert on what can almost be called jeep trails. But, more about my double life in the next message. Based on advice from the list a ways back when I was last reading, I bought a Reunion Blues gig bag and a SKB hard golf travel case to stick it inside. This also held one of my wifes travel guitars. I have to say this worked great. The horn and guitar both survived two flights and a day in the back of a truck including a blowout. So, I just wanted to thank those that came up with this idea (assumming they are still around). Andy From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:09:56 -0800 From: Andrew Michael To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: The Music of Earthquakes Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1267315642==_ma============" Over the last few years, I have mentioned this talk on the list a few times including some long discussions when I was developing it. And now, there is another opportunity for those in the San Francisco area to come hear it. And this time it will include a new piece I wrote for voice, trombone, cello, and seismograms. So here are the details (also can be found at http://quake.usgs.gov/public_talk ):
Free Public Concert and Lecture The Music of Earthquakes - Waveforms of Sound and Seismology - By Andrew Michael, Seismology & Trombone with Stephanie Ross: voice, David Schaff: cello & Duckweed: a USGS old-time music group Is a cello like an earthquake? Is a trombone like the earth? Is an earthquake like an orchestra? Listen to earthquakes and musical performances while we uncover the secrets of music and seismology. Thursday, December 16, 1999, 7:30 pm (Duckweed starts at 7:15 pm) Moscone Center, Room 134 Howard Street between 3rd and 4th, San Francisco Presented by the U.S. Geological Survey, Dept. of the Interior, and the American Geophysical Union
And here is a longer description: The Music of Earthquakes mixes performance and lecture, music and science,acoustic instruments and computer generated sounds. A musician controls the source of the sound and the path it travels through their instrument in order to make sound waves that we hear as music. An earthquake is the source of waves that travel along a path through the earth until reaching us as shaking. It is almost as if the earth is a musician and people, including seismologists, are the audience who must try to understand what the music means. By listening to both music and the audio playbacks of the earth shaking, we will explore this analogy and find new ways to learn about the earth, earthquakes, musical instruments and music. This lecture has been a popular feature at the USGS in Menlo Park, several Universities, and was an invited presentation at a symposium on science and art organized by the American Association for the Advancement of Science. The USGS and the American Geophysical Union are offerring it as a free public event during the 1999 Fall Meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. Thanks, Andy Michael From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:54:26 +0100 From: "Peter Jarnebrant" To: Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) Message-ID: <005401bf42ec$433dc560$789dc6c3@telia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have found that doing *false notes* is great for warm down. I usually play lip slurs starting at low Bb, up to F, down to Bb again, down to the *false* F w/out trigger. Repeat this about three times on each position making sure that you really relax your chops, and I find that your lips really cool down. The effect could perhaps be related to stretching after a physical workout (which trb playing of course is!). I try not to care too much about sound quality, other than playing very open and *untied*. This can of course be varied infinitely to find what works for you. Peter J. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bodie Pfost To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: den 9 december 1999 20:11 Subject: Re: Warm Down (was Re: playing in the morning) > I do glissandi. Starting from low Bb...down a half step, back to Bb, down > a whole step, back to Bb, etc. And then I do it an octave below in the > pedal range. It works really well. And if I've had an especially hard > day of playing 6+ hrs, I will ice my chops when I get home. It keeps the > swelling down. > > -- > Bodie Pfost > > > > > > What does everyone use for warmdown? I use long tones, starting on pedal > > Bb, and descending as low as I can go, pianissimo. > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Chris > > _____________________________________________ > > Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > > http://www.waageworks.com > > > > "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. > > Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. > > Good Judgement comes from Experience. > > Experience comes from Bad Judgement." > > _____________________________________________ > > > From ???@??? Fri Dec 10 08:00:00 1999 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 03:12:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Ted R. Toulouse" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: PETS (was "playing in the morning") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've always owned cats. My Dad took care of the dogs we had. So the one I own now?? Rodney "Tigger" Don't ask about the dual-naming. He's going through an identity crisis. By the way, I suggest cutting the cat's manhood off as soon as possible because you won't have a clean house for very long!! I sat down to do a project with my keyboard today only to realize Rodney had completely chewed through my AC adapter's cord. Oh, he's still alive, just with less hair!!!!!! Ted Toulouse