TROMBONE-L Digest 1531 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Name That Tune! by "Richard Human, Jr." 2) Re: Trombonist in Philly by CaryMusic@aol.com 3) Re: Some nice Early December Thoughts by David Buckley 4) Re: Name That Tune! by CaryMusic@aol.com 5) The Joy of Teaching by Chris Waage 6) St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach by paulel9@bellsouth.net 7) Back to Equipment - Blessing B88 by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 8) OTJ Classifieds Update 12/6/99 by Chris Waage 9) Callet mouthpiece question by Mike Coyle 10) Re: Back to Equipment - Blessing B88 by paulel9@bellsouth.net 11) RE: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 12) Re: The Joy of Teaching by Sequoia Middle School 13) RE: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 14) RE: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 15) trombonists in Philadelphia area by Charles 16) Good Trombonist in the Philadelphia area by Andrewsjon@aol.com 17) Re: Our thread on responding to music by "Malone,Brian" 18) Mouthpiece by Nossy121@aol.com 19) RE: trombonists in Philadelphia area by Bob Koester 20) RE: trombonists in Philadelphia area by Bob Koester 21) Re: Mouthpiece by Chris Waage 22) More "Stuff" for sale. by T2PHXS@aol.com 23) Buying Question by Yoda505@aol.com 24) Michael Davis Quintet by "Jay Sheridan" 25) Re: Buying Question by Scott Ruedger 26) Re: This Whole Music Thing.... by "Richard Human, Jr." 27) UNSUBSCRIBE by FidaAmica@aol.com 28) Re: Mouthpiece by "Joe L. Norcross" 29) Re: [TPIN] TPIN Cryogenic Evaluation by BRASSRX@aol.com 30) unsuscribe by TineDream6@aol.com 31) Re: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach by Mike Coyle 32) Re: This Whole Music Thing.... by Dave Tall 33) instructions on how to unsubcribe by Mike Coyle 34) Re: trombonists in Philadelphia area by Tbcwes@aol.com 35) Re: The whole flying thing by Eric & Candice Swanson 36) Re: unsuscribe by Eric & Candice Swanson 37) Re:Re:Buying Question by Yoda505@aol.com From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 08:41:40 -0500 From: "Richard Human, Jr." To: Trombone List Subject: Name That Tune! Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Friends, We received this message at the OTJ and haven't been able to hunt down the info. Ideas? Richard ------ The following message was sent to the Online Trombone Journal via the Contact form. From: ian hodur - ilh1@humboldt.edu Category: Other Message: I don't know if you will able to help me but here it goes. I heard a song a while ago and I would like to find it again. I don't know the name of the song or the performer. Its from the point of view of a little girl looking for here "Daddy" who is play the "long swangin thing". She often asks "oh where my daddy?" Its old and sort of Blues/Jazz. If you could help I would greatly appreciate it. From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 09:50:39 EST From: CaryMusic@aol.com To: Matmutt@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trombonist in Philly Message-ID: <0.356eef83.257d273f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << << Are there any good trombonist in the Philadelphia area >> >> For Pop and Dixie it would be hard to be Pete (Uncle Trummy) Pepke!! From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:42:23 -0500 From: David Buckley To: bigbird@islandnet.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Some nice Early December Thoughts Message-ID: <384BCB4F.E8283E6E@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting posts. I guess this is what happens when you live in the balmy breezes of Lotus Land.. Dave Buckley. John Capon wrote: > Hi folks, > > I just receive this and thought it applied to the art and craft of > Tomboning and the life style of Trombonists. > > I apologise for it not being right on the subject of tromboning but I > guess I have been playing so long that just about everything applies. > > A lot of the thoughts expressed in the following sound a lot like the > things Arnold Jacobs used to say in the lessons I was fortunate to have > with him. The sound of his voice during lessons jumped into my brain when > I read this. > > We miss you Jake. > > John > > 1. Be a Fundamentalist - make sure the Fun always comes before the > Mental. Realize that life is a situational comedy that will never be > cancelled. A laugh track has been provided, and the reason why we are put > in > the material world is to get more material. Have a good laughsitive > twice a > day, and that will ensure regular hilarity. > > 2. Remember that each of us has been given a special gift, just for > entering - so you are already a winner! > > 3. The most powerful tool on the planet today is Tell-A- Vision. That is > where I tell a vision to you, and you tell a vision to me. That way, if we > don't like the programming we're getting, we can simply change the > channel. > > 4. Life is like photography. You use the negative to develop. > > 5. It is true. As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought > particles tend to get caught between the ears, causing a condition called > truth decay. So be sure to use mental floss twice a day. And when you're > tempted to practice tantrum yoga, remember what we teach in Swami's > Absurdiveness Training class: *Don't get even, get odd.* > > 6. If we want world peace, we must let go of our attachments and truly > live like nomads. That's where I no mad at you, you no mad at me. That > way, > there'll surely be nomadness on the planet. And peace begins with each of > us. A little peace here, a little peace there, pretty soon all the peaces > will fit together to make one big peace everywhere. > > 7. I know great earth changes have been predicted for the future, so if > you're looking to avoid earthquakes, my advice is simple. When you find a > fault, just don't dwell on it. > > 8. There's no need to change the world. All we have to do is toilet train > the world, and we'll never have to change it again. > > 9. If you're looking to find the key to the Universe, I have some bad news > and some good news. The bad news is there is no key to the Universe. The > good news is that it has been left unlocked. > > 10. Finally, everything I have told you is channeled. That way, if you > don't like it, it's not my fault. And remember, enlightenment is not a > bureaucracy. So we don't have to go through channels. > > By: Swami Beyondananda > > John Capon > > Music Director, Malaspina Choir > Artistic Director, Summer Jazz Academy > Brass Instructor, Malaspina University/College > Leader, John Capon Quartet > Music Director, Gabriola Chamber Players > > R.R. 1, Site 3, C14 > Gabriola, BC, Canada > V0R 1X0 > phone: 250 247 8531 > > http://www.islandnet.com/~bigbird/ > > Watch for new CD - "Full Circle" check the above web site for where to > buy and when. I have been promised delivery of product in December. > > Email: bigbird@islandnet.com > > fax: 250 247 9357 (please phone 250 247 8531 first to make sure fax is on) From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 09:59:38 EST From: CaryMusic@aol.com To: richard@trombone.org, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Name That Tune! Message-ID: <0.c4803788.257d295a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/99 7:54:21 AM, richard@trombone.org writes: << "Daddy" who is play the "long swangin thing". She often asks "oh where my daddy?" Its old and sort of Blues/Jazz. If you could help I would greatly appreciate it. >> I think you're referring to a novelty risque song called "I Want My Daddy with that Big Long Slidin' Thing". It was recorded by Dinah Washington back in the fifty's I believe. It belongs to a genre which was big in the 20's. Andy Razaf (lyricist with Fats Waller) wrote dozens of these songs which were only played in clubs. Of course the market was very small since no radio station would-could play them. A friend of mine had it and lost (loaned) it to someone. Wow would I love to get a copy of the song if you have it. Thanks, Will Cary From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:48:05 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: The Joy of Teaching Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been teaching private lessons since 1982. Over the past 17 years, I have worked with literally hundreds of kids, with every imaginable level of ability, commitment, and parent support - I personally think parental support is every bit as important as ability and commitment. A little over two years ago, I took on a tuba student. Matt was just starting his freshman year in high school, and had the desire to improve. He went in as last chair - the typical spot for a freshman in this program. The upperclassmen all picked on him. He practiced hard, and worked his heart out. He made first chair in the second band by the end of his freshman year. Halfway through his sophomore year, I had to pass him on to another teacher because I moved. His new teacher (Steve Seward, tubist with the Kansas City Symphony) took the fire that had developed and poured gas on it. His parents are behind him 100% - they bought him a new CC tuba at the beginning of this school year. He has continued working hard, and made first chair in the top band at his school. They have taken him to Chicago to see the CSO and take a lesson with Gene Pokorny, and have driven him all over the state for musical activities. In this morning's batch of e-mails, I had a message from him: >Just to let you know, on Saturday at All-State Auditions I recieved third >chair in the band. > >Matthew Ya know - that one e-mail made my whole week! I can't take the responsibility for him making the All-State Band. He did the work - lots of it. The competition for All-State in Missouri on tuba is pretty tough. However, it is wonderful to know that I was a part of the process, a guide along the way, if you will. If you chose teaching, realize a few important facts: 1. You will never be rich *unless* you buy the right Lottery ticket. 2. You have the opportunity to forever be a part of a child's life. #2 is worth more than anything else in the world . . . . Most importantly, don't teach just because "you need the steady gig." Half-hearted teaching is a miscarriage of the education process. Teach because you love it. I heard a line years ago that went, "Don't go into music because you want to. If you want to, it's the wrong field. Go into music because you HAVE to." 100% truth, and applies to teaching as well. Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 11:50:42 -0600 From: paulel9@bellsouth.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach Message-ID: <384BF772.B04CD32E@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Yeo wrote: > > Which composition in the history of Western classical music would you > wish to have with you were you alone in the world and could only have > one? > > Answer: OVERWHELMINGLY, with no prompting - from conductors of ALL > ages, races, sexes, nationalities: > > The St. Matthew Passion of J.S. Bach. > > Me, too. (And nary a trombone to be found...) > > There's a reason, but more on that later.... When I read Doug's post, I borrowed a 3 CD set of the St. Matthew Passion (1987-CSO/Solti)from the Memphis Public Library and listened from beginning to end. I had never heard of that piece before and I found the liner notes to be more interesting and enjoyable than the music Bach composed for the Passion. I must admit that I, a hobbyist with little formal music education, have difficulty understanding the response Doug mentioned from the conductors, and I look forward to reading the reason he hinted at. Best regards. -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:54:03 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Back to Equipment - Blessing B88 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Listmembers, I thought I would let you know about an experience that I had this weekend. I friend of mine brought over his son's Blessing B88-O for me to try. I have some experience with the Blessing B-128 and the Blessing B-7, so I was interested in trying the B88 for myself (since I suggested that he buy it). What a suprise! I am used to playing small bore horns, and I have been fighting with an old Holton TR-158 (.547 bore) for a few months, so I was expecting the Blessing to play about like the Holton. Wrong! I could not believe how effortless the B88 was to play. Using a Bach 6 1/2AL, I was able to effortlessly run all the way up to treble cleff C and beyond. I found this amazing since I normally use a King 3B with a Jet Tone mouthpiece. Also, I don't know where a lot of the hype comes from the Thayers, but I could detect no difference in resistance with the trigger engaged on this Blessing. The workmanship on this model also was very good. Fit and finish was certainly the equal to any Bach or Yamaha that I have seen recently. I only detected two negatives in my test of this horn. The slide springs were noisy, and this distracted me. However, this could be because I have never played anything with springs installed. Also, the rotor linkage did not look like it would be that long lasting. If I can't have a string linkage, my favorite would be the linkage used on the old Olds trombones followed by the linkage on the Holton TR-158. This is strictly speaking from an engineering perspective, however. I did find the position of the trigger on the Blessing to be a vast improvement over the Holton. Once I had it properly lubricated, the slide was the equal to anything I have tested to date. In all, I was very impressed. This trombone was purchased from a reputable dealer for around $800.00. Based on this test (and my experience with other Blessing products), my next horn may well be a B8 (B88 without the F attachment). Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:55:48 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: OTJ Classifieds Update 12/6/99 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 11:30 a.m. on December 6 with a large number of new listings. OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:05:54 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Callet mouthpiece question Message-ID: <199912061808.MAA18674@ties.k12.mn.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anybody out there play on a Callet bone mouthpiece? If so, what are your thoughts? Also, is the Callet size 5 equivalent or close to a Bach 5G? Thanks, Mike From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:05:15 -0600 From: paulel9@bellsouth.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Back to Equipment - Blessing B88 Message-ID: <384BFADB.72B44F2F@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "DOWDY, KENNETH S" wrote: > Based on this test (and my experience with other Blessing products), > my next horn may well be a B8 (B88 without the F attachment). Ken, I'm not surprised. Blessing makes fine instruments, for the most part, and one must not bow solely to snob appeal to only look at one or two of the other manufacturers. Almost every trombone I've ever played, could play better than me! ;-) -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:31:08 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Although I suspect Doug's reason for liking the St. Matthew Passion, I'm afraid that your experiences mirror mine. A bit more than a year ago, I began to listen to recordings of various Masses and other religious music from the early Baroque period. I borrowed St. Matthew's Passion because I thought, hey, I love religious music and I like Bach. I was underwhelmed. Granted, the message is beautiful, but the message deserved different music. I'm not sure who recorded the version that I listened to, but I did not make it all the way through all of the CDs. To me, I find the Mass recordings made by Paul McCreech and Roland Wilson to contain music that powerfully drives home the message of the text. But like so much about music, this is only one man's opinion. I am looking forward to trying McCreech's performance of Bach's Epiphany Mass. Both McCreech and Wilson seem to be gifted in capturing the atmosphere of this kind of music. I have found few orchestras that can equal that ability. On the lighter side, can one really speak of passion without the trombone? Ken Dowdy > When I read Doug's post, I borrowed a 3 CD set of the St. Matthew > Passion (1987-CSO/Solti)from the Memphis Public Library and listened > from beginning to end. > > I had never heard of that piece before and I found the liner notes to > be more interesting and enjoyable than the music Bach composed for the > Passion. > > I must admit that I, a hobbyist with little formal music education, > have difficulty understanding the response Doug mentioned from the > conductors, and I look forward to reading the reason he hinted at. > > Best regards. > > -- > E. PAUL LUKAS > TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST > BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND > MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA > PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET > From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 10:30:18 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: The Joy of Teaching Message-ID: <384C00BA.ADDCE2C9@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6 Dec., Chris Waage wrote: > I have been teaching private lessons since 1982. Over the past 17 years, I > have worked with literally hundreds of kids, with every imaginable level of > ability, commitment, and parent support - I personally think parental > support is every bit as important as ability and commitment. Without parent support, the student knows little of what commitment is all about, and without that there is not much use for ability, because it has a good chance of never being recognized, in the first place. beginning of this school year. He has continued working hard, and made > first chair in the top band at his school. They have taken him to Chicago > to see the CSO and take a lesson with Gene Pokorny, and have driven him all > over the state for musical activities. > > In this morning's batch of e-mails, I had a message from him: > >Just to let you know, on Saturday at All-State Auditions I recieved third > >chair in the band. > > > >Matthew > > Ya know - that one e-mail made my whole week! Way to go Matt, and way to go "firestarter" Chris! > However, it is wonderful to know that I was a part of the process, a guide > along the way, if you will. You bet! > If you chose teaching, realize a few important facts: > 1. You will never be rich *unless* you buy the right Lottery ticket. > 2. You have the opportunity to forever be a part of a child's life. > > #2 is worth more than anything else in the world . . . . > > Most importantly, don't teach just because "you need the steady gig." > Half-hearted teaching is a miscarriage of the education process. > > Teach because you love it. Nuff said! Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:16:21 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Paul Lukas's comment on the St. Matthew Passion and Ken Dowdy's response to it get back to the thread we had recently about what constitutes good music. I do not own a recording of the St. Matthew Passion, and it is not high on my wish list, simply because I don't have time to listen to any of the stuff already in my collection that takes 3 CDs to play it all. If I bought it or borrowed it, however, I know I would be moved by it. Why am I so confident. Do I think I have somehow more refined taste than Paul or Ken? Rubbish. The chorus I sang in in college prepared the St. Matthew Passion. I worked hard to learn to sing it my part of it. I heard all the solos, children's chorus parts, orchestra parts--everything I didn't take part in--in the final rehearsals. The conductor took pains to show the chorus how our part fit in with the whole. While I was in college, I also sang other Bach pieces with the choir and studied plenty more in classes. I have invested hours and hours of work into the St. Matthew Passion and hours more into other s of his works. I expect that, after all these years, hearing the St. Matthew Passion again would repay the effort. I am not so confident that I would be moved by the B Minor Mass or the St. John Passion. Why? I have never studied or prepared either of them. I have not yet put any effort into learning what they are about. (It should not be necessary to learn to perform pieces like that. Repeated hearings over a few weeks or so, score in hand, and perhaps singing along, should do the trick.) Great music is not great because of it's immediate appeal. It may have little or no immediate appeal. It is great because it repays the effort to discover what makes it tick. It is great because repeated listening and/or study reveals new beauty. One cannot get to the point of total familiarity. None of us should expect to get the rewards in advance of the effort! Again, I am not flaming Paul or Ken. I am sure that both of them can name music that they have worked at learning that moves them greatly. I am sure both of them know that these pieces move them much more now than at first hearing. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:45:52 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dave, First off, I did not take your reply as a flame at all. However, it does bring out a major difference in how music is viewed. I must respectfully disagree that good music must be listened to repetitively to be understood. Secondly, I would like to stress that I did not intend to say that Bach's Passion was "bad", it would just not be on my list of the number one thing that I would want to play or conduct, or even listen to. Music such as Bach's has multiple purposes. One such purpose is liturgical. In the case of liturgical music, repetition is a given. However, the music must still match the text and cause its desired effect on the participant (note that I did not say audience). This is a highly personal thing that transcends "good" or "bad" music. I am quite familiar with the texts of the various passion oratorios, as well as the Messiah by Handel. None appeal to me because, in my opinion, none of the music rises to the splendor of the text. On the other hand, "Isaiah Mighty Seer in Days of Old" by Luther and Preatorius, or the Sonata con Voce - Dulcis Jesu by Gabrieli move me to tears each time I hear them, just as they did the first time that I heard them. I can say the same about the Great Doxology in Valaam Chant, which has very little complexity, but perfectly (for me) sets the words of the text to music. I would agree that good, meaningful music never gets boring. But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. With any "good" music, you will probably learn something each time you hear it. However, something has to cause you to want to hear it again. Music is like beer or cigarettes in this way. If I have to "get used to it", it probably isn't worth getting used to. That is why I never bothered to "get used to" Mahler, Stravinsky, or Rap or cigarettes. Another factor involved in the "understanding" or "enjoyment" of music is its context. Liturgical music is written for worship, and to assist the participant in worship. It is intended, by design, to impact the hearer on the "first pass". However, it can also fail outside of its context. There are few things more boring to me than listening to Schutz's motets sequentially. There are few things more uplifting that hearing them in the context of the liturgy. I have never heard Bach's Mass in B Moll. However, I am sure that I will enjoy it. Why, because I can relate to Bach's music in the context of the Mass. In St. Matthew's Passion, or The Messiah, I am just a member of the audience, not a participant. Some of this is perhaps my own fault, but it is the way that I react to this music. I am, however, moved by the effort that the composers put in to those works. In many ways, music is much like religion. There are those who must be able to "understand" God in order to worship Him. Others must be able to "feel" Him. Even others really don't care one way or another. The same is true with music. Some need to understand the music to enjoy it. Others, like myself, need to be able to feel it. If I can feel it, I seek to further understand it. Otherwise, I move on to something else. Some may consider this a sloppy way to do things, but there is just so much music out there, representing so many different cultures and time periods, that I just don't have time to get bogged down. For me, the time I would spend trying to "understand" some music would prevent me from enjoying and exploring the vast repository of what is out there. Others may not feel this "musical wanderlust" and be quite content to stay in one area. Both are necessary, in my opinion. Some people need to explore what is around them, but others must take care of the important task of developing what is already known. Just one person's take on the subject. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Guion, David [SMTP:8guion@jmls.edu] > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 2:16 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: RE: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach > > Paul Lukas's comment on the St. Matthew Passion and Ken Dowdy's response > to > it get back to the thread we had recently about what constitutes good > music. > > I do not own a recording of the St. Matthew Passion, and it is not high on > my wish list, simply because I don't have time to listen to any of the > stuff > already in my collection that takes 3 CDs to play it all. If I bought it > or > borrowed it, however, I know I would be moved by it. > > Why am I so confident. Do I think I have somehow more refined taste than > Paul or Ken? Rubbish. The chorus I sang in in college prepared the St. > Matthew Passion. I worked hard to learn to sing it my part of it. I heard > all the solos, children's chorus parts, orchestra parts--everything I > didn't > take part in--in the final rehearsals. The conductor took pains to show > the > chorus how our part fit in with the whole. While I was in college, I also > sang other Bach pieces with the choir and studied plenty more in classes. > I > have invested hours and hours of work into the St. Matthew Passion and > hours > more into other s of his works. I expect that, after all these years, > hearing the St. Matthew Passion again would repay the effort. > > I am not so confident that I would be moved by the B Minor Mass or the St. > John Passion. Why? I have never studied or prepared either of them. I have > not yet put any effort into learning what they are about. (It should not > be > necessary to learn to perform pieces like that. Repeated hearings over a > few > weeks or so, score in hand, and perhaps singing along, should do the > trick.) > > Great music is not great because of it's immediate appeal. It may have > little or no immediate appeal. It is great because it repays the effort to > discover what makes it tick. It is great because repeated listening and/or > study reveals new beauty. One cannot get to the point of total > familiarity. > None of us should expect to get the rewards in advance of the effort! > > Again, I am not flaming Paul or Ken. I am sure that both of them can name > music that they have worked at learning that moves them greatly. I am sure > both of them know that these pieces move them much more now than at first > hearing. > > > ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > David Guion, Cataloger > John Marshall Law School > 315 S. Plymouth Ct. > Chicago, IL 60604 > Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 > > "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, > it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx > > ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 17:02:56 -0500 From: Charles To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: trombonists in Philadelphia area Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19991206220256.006a280c@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Two names that are often overlokked, but are really fine players: Dave Matus Larry Priori From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:42:00 EST From: Andrewsjon@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Good Trombonist in the Philadelphia area Message-ID: <0.ab4660b1.257da3c8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I recently had the opportunity to work with an excellent trombonist from Philadelphia. Dale DeVoe is a fine trombonist. (Former Kenton Trombonist.) I would work with Dale any time. Jon From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:35 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:14:06 -0500 From: "Malone,Brian" To: Subject: Re: Our thread on responding to music Message-ID: <008201bf4047$fa1b1dc0$6bbf5d18@neo.lrun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, I want to thank you for your thoughtful response to Richard Human's post. Perhaps because I have read and been impressed by many of the articles you have posted on your website, I was expecting something elucidating. I was not disappointed! Not having seen Richard's original post, I was also grateful for the second chance to hear his thoughts. (Thank you, Richard!) There is indeed something refreshing about serious topics discussed seriously. We have a moment of contact with the source of our own inspiration and creativity when we reflect deeply on the WHY of things, and are left the better for it. -- Brian Malone From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:35:01 EST From: Nossy121@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Mouthpiece Message-ID: <0.b93e9f92.257db035@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I (an amateur player) have been looking into mouthpieces(not screw-rim) for some time and would like to get some opinions on what to get. I have been told by many a player to purchase a Stork, which I am hesitant to do. What are your opinions---specifically on the Bach megatone series. Thanks, M.j. From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:14:10 -0600 From: Bob Koester To: "Trombone List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: trombonists in Philadelphia area Message-ID: <01BF401E.141CEDE0.bkoester@fixbusinessdebt.com> Don't forget Eddie Cascarella, Richie Genovese, Freddie Joineer, Fred Linge, and Bob Moore...(there are some names from the past for us old guys :-) Bob -----Original Message----- From: Charles [SMTP:chardy@totcon.com] Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 4:03 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: trombonists in Philadelphia area Two names that are often overlokked, but are really fine players: Dave Matus Larry Priori From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:15:28 -0600 From: Bob Koester To: "Trombone List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: trombonists in Philadelphia area Message-ID: <01BF401E.42700F60.bkoester@fixbusinessdebt.com> Almost forgot Vince Forschetti, Roger DeLillo, boy it gets to be a long list in a hurry. -----Original Message----- From: Charles [SMTP:chardy@totcon.com] Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 4:03 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: trombonists in Philadelphia area Two names that are often overlokked, but are really fine players: Dave Matus Larry Priori From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:23:23 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Mouthpiece Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" M.J.- Here are the questions I ask anyone who's looking to change mouthpieces: 1. What are you currently playing? 2. What do you like about it? 3. What do you NOT like about it? 4. What is your predominate style of playing - classical, jazz, etc.? Once you answer those questions, it's a matter of getting a few mouthpieces and trying them out. The extra mass of the Megatone Bachs is nice - I like the feel of those much better than the standard Bach. However, a mouthpiece is a very personal decision - what works for me might work for you, but might not. Chris >I (an amateur player) have been looking into mouthpieces(not screw-rim) for >some time and would like to get some opinions on what to get. I have been >told by many a player to purchase a Stork, which I am hesitant to do. What >are your opinions---specifically on the Bach megatone series. > >Thanks, >M.j. _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:26:03 EST From: T2PHXS@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Cc: T2PHXS@aol.com Subject: More "Stuff" for sale. Message-ID: <0.8bc213a8.257dca3b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Listees, First, thanks to all the response on my 88HTO. It is sold.(Went fast.) I do have another for sale. What it is- 89H with case, no mouthpiece. This one comes with a .525/.547 dual bore slide w/ 2 leadpipes. Great horn. New condition. Great price. $1125.00. (Includes shipping.) Or..... You can buy this same horn w/o the straight neckpipe and counterweight for.... $975.00. (Also includes ship..) For those that are'nt sure what an 89H is- Valve section is removeable as is the straight neckpipe section to be played as either a straight horn ( 8H ) or as an 88H. (With valve section.) On 89Hs the wrap is traditional, not open/wrap. Next..... Other stuff. Mouthpieces- All in new/excellent condition. #1. Greg Black - I. One piece medium weight 4G/5G. $70.00 I. 4G rim. $35.00(Std. wt.) I. 5G cup. $45.00(Std. wt.) I. 5GS cup. (Small shank.) $35.00(Std. wt.) #2. Giardinelli - 1G. $17.00 #3. Benge- 11/4H. #17.00 #4. Conn- 5GR. $17.00 And last...... A Bach counter weight(For tuning slide balance.) $7.00 All the mouthpieces are large shank EXCEPT for the 5GS cup. All prices include shipping. (Prices can be adjusted SLIGHTLY downward if any are bought in groups.) Please email me privately if interested. Thanks to all. Mike Brown, Phoenix Symphony From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:26:15 EST From: Yoda505@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Buying Question Message-ID: <0.2f370f27.257dca47@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Members: I was browsing through the atalog at Giardinelli.com and was wondering if there is a difference between a Bb/F Tenor Trombone, and a Tenor Trombone with the F Attachment. Thanks ahead of time for your help, David Getsfrid From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:23:55 -0500 From: "Jay Sheridan" To: Subject: Michael Davis Quintet Message-ID: <001201bf4062$7f5f7c00$cb644c0c@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF4038.954A8B60"
Hi. I have to tell you about my trip to Cleveland on Friday to hear Michael Davis and Bill Reichenbach play. I was familiar with Bill's playing (from his CD) but had not heard Michael actually play. What a treat the evening was. These two are both excellent trombonists (of course, everyone knows this) and are also very nice people. Bill's wife was along on the tour and I spent quite a bit of time talking to both Bill and his wife. Michael spent alot of time doing an interview with this older lady, I can't remember her name or where she is from, that actually fell asleep during the performance. Granted, they didn't start playing until after 10 PM, but she fell asleep with this wonderful music, and loud music, being played. The evening was well worth the 2 1/2 hour or so drive plus hotel room. For good trombone playing, I will drive nearly halfway across the country (like 16 hours to Boston, although I will wait until late Spring or Summer so I avoid the snow).
 
Jay Sheridan
Director of Bands
Patrick Henry Local Schools
Hamler, OH
sheridan-tbone@worldnet.att.net
 From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:25:32 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Ruedger To: Yoda505@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Buying Question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The terms mean the same instrument, a tenor trombone in Bb with an F-attachment. Bb/F is just an abbreviated way of writing that... Scott On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 Yoda505@aol.com wrote: > Dear List Members: > I was browsing through the atalog at Giardinelli.com and was wondering if > there is a difference between a Bb/F Tenor Trombone, and a Tenor Trombone > with the F Attachment. > Thanks ahead of time for your help, > David Getsfrid > From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 22:19:54 -0500 From: "Richard Human, Jr." To: Trombone List Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing.... Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all, I have to apologize at the genesis of this message for any offense I may cause. Of course, my remarks are not pointed at anyone but myself, and are actually more of myself thinking in type than anything else. When Bach (and there is no mistake that we consider him primarily in these diatribes) reached the end of his mortal life there were over 90 obituaries written to mark the occasion. Only three, that's 3, mentioned him as a composer. Yet, do we not revel in his insight, his dialog, and his contrapunctal conversations still today? William Buckley said of Bach, and I think this speaks to the essence of humanity's great music in general, "The music of Bach disturbs human complacency because we can't readily understand finiteness in its presence." William Buckley goes on to say (and this speaks more wonderfully than any words I could ever attempt to hack together...) "And it reminds us, too, that there are among us men and women who will not drink from this most precious vessel of our cultural patrimony. To some he does not speak. If we understand that, then we understand, surely, what the problems are in Geneva, where grown men are actually talking to each other as it it were a challenge to formulate arrangements by which the world should desist from the temptation to destroy itself. If a human being exists who is unmoved by the B minor Mass, it should not surprise that human beings exist who are unmoved by democracy, or freedom, or peace." Lewis Thomas of the Sloan-Kettering Institute answered, when he was asked what message he though that human beings should send out into space included with the best of our accomplishments, "I would send the works of Johann Sebastian Bach." He then paused and said, "But that would be boasting." > From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" > I must respectfully > disagree that good music must be listened to repetitively to be understood. > Secondly, I would like to stress that I did not intend to say that Bach's > Passion was "bad", it would just not be on my list of the number one thing > that I would want to play or conduct, or even listen to. I don't know Kenneth, and I am sure, if only by reading his post, that he is a well-reasoned and thoughtful gentleman. But, his remark really struck me, and hurt a bit as well. To be fair, not all good music need be studied, and not all good music requires our devotion. I offer, however, that the *best* of any art requires it. Our American culture has fallen too, too far into the instant gratification slime pit to realize that there is a totally new and exciting, if not downright uplifting level of interaction that is going on. That is the interaction of artists and thinkers. It is so very refreshing to share thoughts with Douglas Yeo because he is one of those rare men of Christian faith who is not threatened by reason, by intelligence, and by the notion that someone else might have different ideas and beliefs, that another human being could also be devoted to the same God, but through different channels. It is people like him, and Kenneth, and others on this list, who have cried while sitting in the back row who really "get" music. Bach is not for everyone because he requires the most from the listener. "From those whom much is given, much is required." This is not just a cutesy phrase that your pastor offers when it's time to build a new fellowship hall. > Music such as Bach's has multiple purposes. One such purpose is liturgical. > In the case of liturgical music, repetition is a given. However, the music > must still match the text and cause its desired effect on the participant > (note that I did not say audience). This is a highly personal thing that > transcends "good" or "bad" music. I am quite familiar with the texts of the > various passion oratorios, as well as the Messiah by Handel. None appeal to > me because, in my opinion, none of the music rises to the splendor of the > text. On the other hand, "Isaiah Mighty Seer in Days of Old" by Luther and > Preatorius, or the Sonata con Voce - Dulcis Jesu by Gabrieli move me to > tears each time I hear them, just as they did the first time that I heard > them. I can say the same about the Great Doxology in Valaam Chant, which > has very little complexity, but perfectly (for me) sets the words of the > text to music. I would offer that Bach's music had one singular purpose, and he backs me up. "SDG" was inscribed on almost every work of Bach. "Soli Deo Gloria," to God alone be the Glory. So, so unlike any composer before or after, Bach expressed himself for one purpose and one only - to bring people to the God of might, passion, strength and tenderness that he believed in. Having said that I should say this. I am not a Christian. I am still struggling to find rhyme or reason in this whole world. But, Bach, more than the Bible, any pastor I have heard or any witness I have been given, offers me evidence that there exists a higher being. I think pure music (avoiding the word "good" on purpose) maintains Bach's example of singularity of purpose and focus. Pure music is not commercial. Pure music is not produced hastily and without inner sacrifice and contemplation. Pure music is not offered without purpose and meaning. Pure music is not managed - it is not sold and bought. It just is. I have heard 12 year old children sing hymns, and they offered what I call pure music - because the impetus of the recreation was borne of pure emotion, of feeling and belief. Where we "find ourselves" in the continuum of music is wholly irrelevant. That we find ourselves at all is the important bit. Kenneth has found what moves him. That is enough. > I would agree that good, meaningful music never gets boring. I am driven to offer that it is us who fails to reach pure music, not the opposite. > But I also have to agree with a previous poster that music that has to be > studied in order to be appreciated is not worth the bother. If nothing Doug or I have written previously has addressed this idea then no more writing is needed. > With any "good" > music, you will probably learn something each time you hear it. However, > something has to cause you to want to hear it again. This is true - but I would not look to the music for the source. As we grow and mature we are in a better position to appreciate the world around us. Bill Cosby makes my point much better. "The older I get, the smarter my parent become." Who, do you think, are our musical parents? >Music is like beer or > cigarettes in this way. If I have to "get used to it", it probably isn't > worth getting used to. That is why I never bothered to "get used to" > Mahler, Stravinsky, or Rap or cigarettes. Ouch! Rotten example! Cigarettes kill you after many "hearings." I can't imagine anyone who has heard Mahler ever equating his music to a deadly toxin. Exercise is good for us. We often have to develop an exercise routine. Warming up is very beneficial. We all have to develop (get used to?) a routine. Practicing is required in order to excel. These all take time - effort - energy - and improve our lives. Why is it that people so flippantly toss music aside so readily? Of course! I must have not gotten the memo! If at first you don't succeed then just forget it! It's not worth doing! Ridiculous? Yep. My point exactly. It is *so* depressing to me that the idea of instant satisfaction is so ingrained in our culture that we equate it with quality. Instant breakfast. Instant pain relief. Instant banking. Instant redemption. Some things in life should not be easy. > In many ways, music is much like religion. There are those who must be able > to "understand" God in order to worship Him. Others must be able to "feel" > Him. Even others really don't care one way or another. The same is true > with music. Some need to understand the music to enjoy it. Others, like > myself, need to be able to feel it. If I can feel it, I seek to further > understand it. Otherwise, I move on to something else. Simply put - as musicians we have the responsibility to expect more from ourselves - and to search out more. Just my opinion. Being a musician bears with it a huge responsibility - to be counted in the lineage of Bach - Beethoven - Brahms - Mahler - Copeland - Ives - Bernstein...this is not the gig for the faint of heart, or soul. > Some may consider > this a sloppy way to do things, but there is just so much music out there, > representing so many different cultures and time periods, that I just don't > have time to get bogged down. For me, the time I would spend trying to > "understand" some music would prevent me from enjoying and exploring the > vast repository of what is out there. So - you only eat one kind of food, right? Just french fries for you. Forget the beef, the pork, the sauces and dressings. Should people only play a few notes on their horn...just the best ones? Should each person play just one piece of music - just the one they can play without error? It sounds ridiculous - I know - and I am not trying to be rude to Kenneth. If I sound that way, then I apologize a second time. I think that dedicating oneself to discovery in one pointed area allows one to comprehend a vast number of ideas. There is not that much difference in the learning process, or the thinking process, for anything. > Just one person's take on the subject. > Ken Dowdy And one person's take is as valid - to him - as another's. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I find, that through them, I am more sure of my one. I hope that you are the same by mine, and if not - then that's good as well. Music cognition, at the first hearing - is dependent on short-term memory and expectancy. The theory of expectancy - developed by Meyer, dictates that the meaning of music is dependent on our expectations of it. I won't go into the whole theory here, but basically our understanding (appreciation?) of what we here is dependent on the message we receive being closely akin to what we expect to receive. If it is too much different, then we have no ready association for the incoming sounds and the music loses meaning. If it is exactly what we expect, then we become bored. Bach's music, on a superficial level, is exactly what we expect. We have studied and heard so much Baroque music that we quickly categorize the harmony, the instrumentation, the polyphony, and say "Oh, this Bach." Many people become bored. If however, we listen from the perspective of the chess master, attempting to become aware of each moment and it's meaning - and also at the same time the next cognitive level higher, and again the next, and the next - if we can fathom the board as one singular organic entity that has both life and purpose, and when choosing our move see the only "right" move as opposed to the vast - infinite - number of other possible inferior choices - then we have an inkling into the the mind and music of Bach - just an inkling. No man has played chess like he crafted music. No man has felt, or made, love like the music of Bach It is infinite in its correctness, and correct in infinitness. That is the only way I can describe it, and it is a poor description at best. I have come to regret, at times, my choice of instrument. Being a sub-standard piano player, I will rarely have the opportunity to perform the music of Bach - to be in the middle of all that...well, I can't even find a word. It can't be described - I can only hope you find it. Just my thoughts - Richard From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:58:42 EST From: FidaAmica@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Message-ID: <0.d412ddb4.257ddff2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to unsubscribe to this list. From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:52:43 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mouthpiece Message-ID: <048801bf4066$85d601e0$04000005@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try every mouthpiece you can, buy the one that works for you and your horn ______________________________________ Joe L. Norcross Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net -----Original Message----- From: Nossy121@aol.com To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 4:36 PM Subject: Mouthpiece >I (an amateur player) have been looking into mouthpieces(not screw-rim) for >some time and would like to get some opinions on what to get. I have been >told by many a player to purchase a Stork, which I am hesitant to do. What >are your opinions---specifically on the Bach megatone series. > >Thanks, >M.j. > From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:20:52 EST From: BRASSRX@aol.com To: tpin@parnassus.dana.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: [TPIN] TPIN Cryogenic Evaluation Message-ID: <0.7c7bd050.257de524@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Update on the TPIN Cryogenic Evaluation: Phase one is finished with our four testers (Nick Drozdoff, John Hagstrom, Stanton Kramer, and Mark Ponzo) each getting a chance to play four different trumpets (Bach 37, Benge CG, Besson, and Blackburn) and filling out an evaluation of each trumpet playing characteristics. The evaluation sheets will now be forwarded to Jason Blough to compile and write the results of these trumpets before the Cryogenic process. All four trumpets will now be shipped to Washington, DC where John Lynch will perform a spectrum analysis on each instrument using his on salpingometer. Thanks to our four testers for taking the time to be involved and to share their thoughts on the trumpets being used for the test. I've found members of TPIN to be very generous as we have four members willing let us use theirs trumpets, many of you willing to donate money to help defray the shipping and insurance costs involved shipping the trumpets 4 separate times to complete this test (we could always use more help with the fund) a couple of us willing to use our time, facility, and equipment to complete this test and the rest of you for your interest in seeing the results. Also we are also sharing the results of this test with our brass brethren, the trombone newsgroup. Thanks to all....the test now moves to phase two (spectra analysis) Wayne Tanabe The Brass Bow Music Co. 101 North Hickory Ave. Arlington Hts. IL 60004 847-253-7552 847-253-0792 fax Brassrx@aol.com www.thebrassbow.com From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:28:19 EST From: TineDream6@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: unsuscribe Message-ID: <0.683f888c.257de6e3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i would also like to unsuscribe From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 22:42:29 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: St. Matthew's Passion by J.S. Bach Message-ID: <199912070446.WAA06031@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_18636636==_.ALT" Hiya folks,

I am currently listening to "Kommt, ihr Tochter, helft mir klagen", the opening to Bach's St. Matthew Passion.   It is one of the more sublime and austere moments in music to me.  Like most of Bach's large liturgical works it is a veritable meditation on the human condition.  Bach, unlike many others who have come before and after, always manages to weave the pathos of human frailty with the dignity and vastness of spirit.  Whether instrumental or choral, solo or ensemble, it is evident that Bach's music is a direct link to the cosmic divine.  Dreyden said of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, "Here is God's Plenty".  This holds far more true of Bach's work than anything I can think of.

This being said, I still would have a hard time choosing it as the one piece I would choose were I to find myself (perish the thought) alone in the world and allowed to have only one piece with me.  No one piece can express everything that makes music what it is.

I have always found questions such as the subject of this post to be an exercise in futility at best and silly at least.  It reminds me of the notion in Buddhism which holds that there are questions which are unaskable.  In the west we believe some questions to be unanswerable, in the eastern tradition questions such as the big metaphysical ones are considered unaskable. Informed as they may be, our thoughts on such things are mere speculation and opinion and it is far better to learn to live with the questions than to force an answer (everyone's criticism of dogmatic fundamentalism). 

As music is the voice of God (to me) I put this question in the same realm as the big metaphysical ones.  And all of this is not even giving real thought to the horror that it would be to be alone in the world to begin with.  I wonder if this music stuff would even have the same meaning in a world without sharing and companionship.  Even if I suspend disbelief long enough to entertain this idea I could never hope to come up with a satisfactory answer to the question due to its severe limitation.  I would have to take a whole trunk load of music (yeah, I know, this violates the premise  :)

OK, "O Haupt voll Blut und Wunden"  has just come on and all my little speculation is grossly over shadowed and has melted into absurdity. Thank God for the relevance and beauty of his most wonderful gift to us - music  :)

Mike

At 11:50 AM 12/6/99 , you wrote:
>Douglas Yeo wrote:
>>
>> Which composition in the history of Western classical music would you
>> wish to have with you were you alone in the world and could only have
>> one?
>>
>> Answer: OVERWHELMINGLY, with no prompting - from conductors of ALL
>> ages, races, sexes, nationalities:
>>
>> The St. Matthew Passion of J.S. Bach.
>>
>> Me, too.  (And nary a trombone to be found...)
>>
>> There's a reason, but more on that later....
>
>When I read Doug's post, I borrowed a 3 CD set of the St. Matthew
>Passion (1987-CSO/Solti)from the Memphis Public Library and listened
>from beginning to end.
>
>I had never heard of that piece before and I found the liner notes to
>be more interesting and enjoyable than the music Bach composed for the
>Passion.
>
>I must admit that I, a hobbyist with little formal music education,
>have difficulty understanding the response Doug mentioned from the
>conductors, and I look forward to reading the reason he hinted at.
>
>Best regards.
>
>--
>E. PAUL LUKAS
>TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST
>BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND
>MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA
>PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET
>--
>E. PAUL LUKAS
>TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST
>BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND
>MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA
>PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET
> From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:49:02 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: This Whole Music Thing.... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991206214902.00b38bd0@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:19 PM 12/6/99 -0500, Richard Human, Jr. wrote: >> From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" >I would offer that Bach's music had one singular purpose, and he backs me >up. "SDG" was inscribed on almost every work of Bach. "Soli Deo Gloria," >to God alone be the Glory. So, so unlike any composer before or after, Bach >expressed himself for one purpose and one only - to bring people to the God >of might, passion, strength and tenderness that he believed in. > >Having said that I should say this. I am not a Christian. I am still >struggling to find rhyme or reason in this whole world. But, Bach, more >than the Bible, any pastor I have heard or any witness I have been given, >offers me evidence that there exists a higher being. > >I think pure music (avoiding the word "good" on purpose) maintains Bach's >example of singularity of purpose and focus. Pure music is not commercial. >Pure music is not produced hastily and without inner sacrifice and >contemplation. Pure music is not offered without purpose and meaning. Pure >music is not managed - it is not sold and bought. It just is. The concept and discussion of "pure" as opposed to "tainted" music is one that will continue as long as there are musicians, I think. I don't personally believe that music which is "commercial, "managed" or "sold and bought" is inherently impure. If this is so, any composer or performer who is paid for their work is automatically disqualified. Any performance which is planned, rather than spontaneous, is automatically disqualified. Bach himself made his living performing and composing. Also, purpose and meaning can have cultural ties and antecedents which work against someone outside that culture easily recognizing and relating to them. This is certainly not to say that all music is "equivalent". However, I do believe that your philosophical requirements for "pure" music are too stringent for the world we actually live in. >> Some may consider >> this a sloppy way to do things, but there is just so much music out there, >> representing so many different cultures and time periods, that I just don't >> have time to get bogged down. For me, the time I would spend trying to >> "understand" some music would prevent me from enjoying and exploring the >> vast repository of what is out there. > >So - you only eat one kind of food, right? Just french fries for you. >Forget the beef, the pork, the sauces and dressings. Should people only >play a few notes on their horn...just the best ones? Should each person >play just one piece of music - just the one they can play without error? I understood him to say that he didn't wish to delve deeply into one type of music so that he may sample broadly of the many musics of the world. Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 22:45:51 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: FidaAmica@aol.com, TineDream6@aol.com Subject: instructions on how to unsubcribe Message-ID: <199912070449.WAA06227@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" to unsubcribe you need to write to the address below, not the list. ********** HOW TO GET OFF THE LIST ********** To sign off from the list, email to listproc@lists.missouri.edu with the following request: signoff TROMBONE-L or unsubscribe TROMBONE-L From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:24:15 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: chardy@totcon.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: trombonists in Philadelphia area Message-ID: <0.55fc9936.257df3ff@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/99 6:05:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, chardy@totcon.com writes: << Two names that are often overlokked, but are really fine players: Dave Matus Larry Priori >> Also, John Ilika. From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:07:47 +0000 From: Eric & Candice Swanson To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: The whole flying thing Message-ID: <384C4FCE.3E2B@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JennWhaa@aol.com wrote: > > Hello out there. Like many on this list, I have had an airplane horror story. > Is there any alternative? Jen, You could pack your hard case into a cardboard box as if you were going to ship it UPS, and then check it. That would give better protection to the horn, and protect the case too. If you use styrofoam, it won't weigh very much. And you can leave the box in your hotel room when you get where you're going and reuse it for the return trip. Remember to take a roll of tape with you to reseal. This is better than just checking the case, and doesn't cost very much at all. If you hardly ever fly, you might not want to invest in a flight case. Check with the airline first for maximum baggage size limits. Eric Swanson From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:10:00 +0000 From: Eric & Candice Swanson To: TineDream6@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: unsuscribe Message-ID: <384C5053.52D4@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TineDream6@aol.com wrote: > > i would also like to unsuscribe Send an email message addressed to: LISTPROC@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU The body of the message should contain the following: UNSUB TROMBONE-L Make sure you send the message from the account that currently receives the Trombone-L postings. From ???@??? Tue Dec 07 07:35:36 1999 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:22:47 EST From: Yoda505@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re:Re:Buying Question Message-ID: <0.4b29ebd.257e01b7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, David