TROMBONE-L Digest 1527 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Alan Raph's "Dance Band Reading" by Steve Butterworth 2) re. "snob" by Chris Waage 3) Michael Rath Trombones by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 4) Re: Michael Rath Trombones by Chris Waage 5) Bakersfield Bones-Last call by Sequoia Middle School 6) RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 7) RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism by Chris Waage 8) Whoops! by Sequoia Middle School 9) yeo mpc for sale by Charles 10) Help needed by Howard Weiner 11) Re: Conical Tbone Comeback by sabutin@mindspring.com 12) Re: Conical Tbone Comeback by Sequoia Middle School 13) Re: Conical Tbone Comeback by Dennis Clason 14) Online Archive of Digests by Listmonitor Trombone-L 15) re. Online Archive of Digests by Listmonitor Trombone-L 16) Re: In praise of elitism by "Daniel Pliskin" 17) Re: Help!! Dark Eyes by "Daniel Pliskin" 18) Digest Archives by Listmonitor Trombone-L 19) RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism by "Daniel Pliskin" 20) RE: Conical Tbone Comeback by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 21) RE: In praise of elitism by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 22) RE: Music for the Masses (was It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism) by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 23) Re: Conical Tbone Comeback by Sequoia Middle School 24) OK Guys! by TonyC789@aol.com 25) RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism by Chris Waage 26) Re: OK Guys! by Sequoia Middle School 27) RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism by "Daniel Pliskin" 28) Re: Help!! Dark Eyes by Larry & Carol Bronisz 29) Minick bass on ebay by "Rodney Ellard" 30) Snobbism by Andrewsjon@aol.com 31) Re: throat constriction/noises by Tbcwes@aol.com 32) Re: throat constriction/noises take 2 by Tbcwes@aol.com 33) Re: Another Timely Virus Warning for us Trombonists by Wayne Dyess 34) Conical Bore Trombones by Steve Butterworth 35) Re: Navy School of Music by Wayne Dyess 36) RE:Snobism by Yoda505@aol.com 37) Re: Snobism by Atlbrvsnt@aol.com 38) X-MAS CONCERTS IN LOUISVILLE, KY by Robert Coulter 39) Fwd: Snobism by Yoda505@aol.com 40) Re: Another Timely Virus Warning for us Trombonists by "Aaron Roth" 41) RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism by Earl Needham 42) Re: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism by "Gary D. Maxwell" 43) Re: trombone FAQ by Angie Brunk From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 07:28:42 -0500 From: Steve Butterworth To: Servo149@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Alan Raph's "Dance Band Reading" Message-ID: <384665FA.5D86E385@istar.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Dance Band Reading book was basic pablum for me at Humber College in Toronto. It was only printed in bass cleff and treble cleff(Non-transposed!) in recent history. This made reading it with the trumpet players very interesting. They wereconstantly playing it a ninth away from where we were and we thought they just couldn't read! This is a great book for anyone with younger students looking for solid style exercises and concepts. So to answer the question. There was only one bass cleff edition in recent memory. Steve Servo149@aol.com wrote: > Listers- > I have recently been looking for a copy of Alan Raph's "Dance Band Reading" > for Tenor Trombone. After having searched Hickey's and having only come up > with the Bass edition, I thought I might ask if any of you had leads on how > to get the Tenor edition. > Many Thanks, > Tate Addis From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:23:36 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: re. "snob" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just an interesting tidbit....unsure of the totality of truth, but it was an interesting story. Historically, members of the noble class have some sort of suffix they add to their names, i.e., "Duke of Saxony", which identify their lineage and level of royalty. Many commoners started adopting this practice, but merely added the Latin phrase "sine nobilitat," or "without nobility." With time, this became shortened to the first vowels, or "snob." Snob . . . without nobility . . . how appropriate. ;-) Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:02:16 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Michael Rath Trombones Message-ID: <007701bf3cd6$4f3e15c0$6d5ffc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF3CAC.5035AE40"
Dear Listers:
    I just spent 8 days in the UK on a brass band tour and a friend that I have cultivated in the UK, Steven Ford, who plays bass trombone in the Clifton & Lightcliffe Brass Band in the Yorkshire area, graciously took our brass band trombone section to the Michael Rath trombone factory in Bradford. I had the opportunity to test one of these instruments, and I am pleased to report that it was a very good instrument. I personally preferred the F-attachment model over the straight bell section. The F-Attachment is equipped with the Hagamann valve, which I was quite surprised to learn responds just as well as a Thayer valve, which I have played for over 10 years. The guys in the shop were quite accomodating, as I had never witnessed how slide tubes are drawn, but believe me, it is a fascinating process. They start with a tube of brass about 12" long, and they place it on a mandrel, and then they place both the tube and the mandrel in a machine that resembles a metal lathe and the machine streches the tube to slightly longer than a standard tube. they then cut the end of the tube, and slide the tube of the mandrel. Believe me, after seeing this, there is absolutely no way that slide tubes are made crookedly, unless there is something untrue about the mandrel over which they place they tube. Whatever hapens after all of the tubes are made and assembled is another story.
    One of my students who plays bass trombone in this band tried the bass trombone, and even though he had to do some adjusting to having a low Eb in first position instead of a low D, said that the bass trombone played better in the upper register than his Edwards.
    The price of their tenor trombone with F-attachment is right at $2300, and they can make it any way you want it. Like all of the endeavors the British encounter, there is a VERY HIGH, UNCOMPRIMISED standard of quality. They completely guarantee your satisfaction. I have temporarily misplaced the literature they gave me, so I don't have their web address. Perhaps some one their in the UK can help me with this. From what I understand, Steve Dillion will be their US distributor very soon. 
 
    
Paul Kemp
Chattanooga Symphony
 From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:13:47 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Michael Rath Trombones Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://www.rathtrombones.com/ Chris Paul Kemp wrote: I just spent 8 days in the UK on a brass band tour and a friend that I have cultivated in the UK, Steven Ford, who plays bass trombone in the Clifton Lightcliffe Brass Band in the Yorkshire area, graciously took our brass band trombone section to the Michael Rath trombone factory in Bradford. I had the opportunity to test one of these instruments, and I am pleased to report that it was a very good instrument. I personally preferred the F-attachment model over the straight bell section. The F-Attachment is equipped with the Hagamann valve, which I was quite surprised to learn responds just as well as a Thayer valve, which I have played for over 10 years. The guys in the shop were quite accomodating, as I had never witnessed how slide tubes are drawn, but believe me, it is a fascinating process. They start with a tube of brass about 12" long, and they place it on a mandrel, and then they place both the tube and the mandrel in a machine that resembles a metal lathe and the machine streches the tube to slightly longer than a standard tube. they then cut the end of the tube, and slide the tube of the mandrel. Believe me, after seeing this, there is absolutely no way that slide tubes are made crookedly, unless there is something untrue about the mandrel over which they place they tube. Whatever hapens after all of the tubes are made and assembled is another story. One of my students who plays bass trombone in this band tried the bass trombone, and even though he had to do some adjusting to having a low Eb in first position instead of a low D, said that the bass trombone played better in the upper register than his Edwards. The price of their tenor trombone with F-attachment is right at $2300, and they can make it any way you want it. Like all of the endeavors the British encounter, there is a VERY HIGH, UNCOMPRIMISED standard of quality. They completely guarantee your satisfaction. I have temporarily misplaced the literature they gave me, so I don't have their web address. Perhaps some one their in the UK can help me with this. From what I understand, Steve Dillion will be their US distributor very soon. _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 07:25:45 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Euphonium and Tuba Playing Subject: Bakersfield Bones-Last call Message-ID: <38468F79.5C1159FB@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------13F8AECA7D6D1581B978CDCC" Here is the last infor coming from Ron Christian, for those of you in California and may be planning on joining us for our first Christmas (Low Brass) gathering.

For our Christmas performance all bass-clef reading low brass instruments in addition to the trombones are being included and encouraged to attend.

There is absolutely no age discrimination.

He is having to limit to 100 players (I'll bet he won't send you home if we go over (:>))
Call ASAP to reserve your spot (661) 834-8181, or email him at <rnrxian@lightspeed.net>

This will a pre-show Christmas concert for the last performance of Bakersfield Music Theater's. "A Christmas Carol".  The show begins at 2:00pm

When:  Sat., December 18th
Time:  Rehearsal from 10:00am - 12:00(noon)
            Our concert from 1:15pm - 2:00pm
Where:  Bakersfield High School - Harvey Auditorium
            16th & 'H' Street
Dress:  White shirt/black pants & Christmas head/neck gear
            (Santa Hats, Reindeer antlers, gaudy Ties, etc.)

If you have a music stand, please bring it.

Hope ya all come.

The messenger.
Gary Maxwell
Bass Trombone
Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:00:56 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Chris wrote (in part): > Granted, I'm not a fan of the "new music" that's out there. Some of it > sounds like it was music composed by musicians to let performers show > other > musicians how great they are at playing their instruments. However, when > it comes right down to it, musicians are here to communicate. If the > audience walks away going "Huh?" at the end of the performance, there are > only two possible causes: > 1. The music was performed badly. > 2. They were unprepared for what they heard. > I don't completely subscribe to the idea that a failure of communication rests solely with the receptor. I firmly believe that there is a third cause: that the communicator failed to adequately communicate his ideas. Poorly composed music that is expertly performed is still poorly composed music. Also, as a "music consumer", I have certain expectation when I purchase a ticket to a performance. I should not have to "prepare" myself for what I am about to hear. I attend classes to learn. I attend performances to be entertained. If a person has to spend 5 minutes preparing me for what I am about to hear (yes, I have been to such performances), I can be nearly certain that I am about to hear a piece of music that will not mean that much to me. I really think that it boils down to your purpose for writing the music. If you write it to satisfy yourself, and you are happy with it, the piece is a success. If someone else appreciates it, that is icing on the cake. If, on the other hand, you are writing a piece of music to convey an idea to an audience, and they all go "Huh?", then it is you who have failed, not them. > What it comes down to is personal taste, a desire to expand your > understanding of music, and the willingness to learn. > Amen! As long as we can understand that it is personal taste, we can enjoy our music without passing judgement on music that we do not like. I view music as an extension of the person creating it. There are people that I don't care to associate with. I am not going to tell anyone else not to associate with them. There is music that I don't care to hear. If someone else likes it, they should listen to it without prejudice on my part. Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:14:21 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I left out a #3 in my list of causes: 3. Bad compostion There is such a thing as bad music - just because you are capable of putting pen to paper (or pigment/toner to paper, if using a computer) and find someone perform it doesn't make it good music. Chris >Chris wrote (in part): > >> Granted, I'm not a fan of the "new music" that's out there. Some of it >> sounds like it was music composed by musicians to let performers show >> other >> musicians how great they are at playing their instruments. However, when >> it comes right down to it, musicians are here to communicate. If the >> audience walks away going "Huh?" at the end of the performance, there are >> only two possible causes: >> 1. The music was performed badly. >> 2. They were unprepared for what they heard. >> Ken Dowdy wrote: > I don't completely subscribe to the idea that a failure of >communication rests solely with the receptor. I firmly believe that there >is a third cause: that the communicator failed to adequately communicate his >ideas. Poorly composed music that is expertly performed is still poorly >composed music. Also, as a "music consumer", I have certain expectation >when I purchase a ticket to a performance. I should not have to "prepare" >myself for what I am about to hear. I attend classes to learn. I attend >performances to be entertained. If a person has to spend 5 minutes >preparing me for what I am about to hear (yes, I have been to such >performances), I can be nearly certain that I am about to hear a piece of >music that will not mean that much to me. I really think that it boils down >to your purpose for writing the music. If you write it to satisfy yourself, >and you are happy with it, the piece is a success. If someone else >appreciates it, that is icing on the cake. If, on the other hand, you are >writing a piece of music to convey an idea to an audience, and they all go >"Huh?", then it is you who have failed, not them. > >> What it comes down to is personal taste, a desire to expand your >> understanding of music, and the willingness to learn. >> > Amen! As long as we can understand that it is personal taste, we >can enjoy our music without passing judgement on music that we do not like. >I view music as an extension of the person creating it. There are people >that I don't care to associate with. I am not going to tell anyone else not >to associate with them. There is music that I don't care to hear. If >someone else likes it, they should listen to it without prejudice on my >part. > > Ken Dowdy _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 08:52:39 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Euphonium and Tuba Playing Subject: Whoops! Message-ID: <3846A3D7.A6D1E004@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course, I did not mean to exclude those outside of California. Every Bass Clef, Brass Wind instrumentalist is invited to join us on the 18th. Come on World! I already have you down Joe. I'll be looking forward to sharing a stand with you. As always, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:11:42 -0500 From: Charles To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: yeo mpc for sale Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19991202161142.0069d618@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have another Yeo mouthpiece, new (played once) $95 + shipping. Call @ 904 7494010 or email chardy@totcon.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 18:59:42 From: Howard Weiner To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Help needed Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991202185942.2877ac78@mail.privat.toplink.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone out there recognize the following quote. It is supposedly by George Bernard Shaw, supposedly from his "On Playing Wind Instruments", in _On Music and Musicians_. This "version," however, has been retranslated from Russian back into English, and is nowhere to be found in the volumes of Shaw's Collected Works containing his music criticisms. "I would rather think that the draught [?] for wind instruments is passed from one generation to another. My father broke his family comfort by immoderate draught [???] for a trombone; my uncle played for many years - very well, I must say - the ophicleide. Some day I shall have a trombone, too." Any help in finding and identifying the original text will be greatly appreciated. Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" - attributed to Frank Zappa "Beschriebene Musik ist wie ein erzŠhltes Mittagessen" - Franz Grillparzer zugeschrieben From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 13:32:47 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: burger2go@compuserve.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Conical Tbone Comeback Message-ID: <199912021834.NAA02333@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:15 AM 11/30/99 +0100, you wrote: >Hey - >I know I brought this up on the list, and was shot at by some sceptics, but >I have been playing the Cortierer Conical Trombone for about four months, >and I am sure that this is a horn to make. The one i am playin is from 1929, >and had been used alot, so the slide is not the greatest. I saw a gold >plated one on ebay, and should have bought it, but the knife my wife has to >my throut convinced me otherwise. ======================== ---snip--- ============================ > >I have been working with a brilliant young brass maker - a master graduate >of the Alexander Factory - and we have corrected and improved all of the >manifacturing problems associated with this design, through modern technics >and materials (no PVC...). It is my thought to produce three horns, one in >the .500 - .509 range, one in the .530 range, and one in the .547 size. The >intention is to make a horn that has the same resistance and blow of horns >in this range, but allow the player to enjoy the wonders of a conical horn. >Each will fit to two different bells, one a more conventional but conical >design, and the other more closely resembling a flugle horn (no, not a >euphonium - which is quite different in flare). The horn will have no >interuptions in the conicality when in first position, and there will be no >interuption for a tuning slide. Also, the will be only two internally >dropped edges, both with less than a .5 mm edge, so the horn will have very >little internal interference. I am very excicted about the prototype, and >just pose a simple question - If I am able to find a builder to produce >these commercialy ( it is improbable that I will make a dime - I just think >it's a great horn!!) do you think you'd try one? It would seem to be a >better cry than these mutant dual bore horns. Comments to list or my >personal email: >burger2go@compuserve.com > >Thanks for your thoughts > >Eric Burger >USAREUR Band >Heidelberg Germany ========================== Eric... Of course I'd try one. I am rather skeptical about both the design and your chances of success in building the horn, but the IDEA is great. My skepticism derives from this idea...what WORKS best eventually becomes part of common practice design, in a "survival of the fittest" sense. If this design is so good, why didn't it survive and predominate? Slide tuning horns, for example, didn't predominate even though they have particularly good playing characteristics because they were too heavy in the slide for most people to play and also because they were more expensive to make and more complicated to maintain. Open wrap, on the other hand, appears to have generally won over closed wrap. because it offers more pluses than minuses. As far as PRODUCING the horn...money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money . If you can raise the cash, you can produce some horns. If they make money, you can produce more, and the best of luck to you in the endeavour. Later... S. P.S. I mean what I said about trying the horn. I'd LOVE to find a new idea that works in horn design. From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:24:26 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: sabutin@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Conical Tbone Comeback Message-ID: <3846C76A.CFE62E56@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > I am rather skeptical about both the design and your chances of success > in building the horn, but the IDEA is great. > > My skepticism derives from this idea...what WORKS best eventually > becomes part of common practice design, in a "survival of the fittest" sense. > > If this design is so good, why didn't it survive and predominate? > P.S. I mean what I said about trying the horn. I'd LOVE to find a new > idea that works in horn design. I tried very hard to purchase the gold plated Couturier trombone listed on ebay, but was beaten out by $2 (another story). I was very interested in trying it also, because I own its smaller brother: a conical bore trumpet made Sept.24, 1918. It's a pretty decent horn and plays very well in tune. I'm glad of that, since there are no tuning slides on the valves, just the main slide off the lead pipe. Mine happens to be in excellent condition and I use it from time to time, but I also ask the question; Why didn't it catch on? I come up with the same answer as Sam. Cost. It's very well built, but without removable slides a real devil to clean. It also has a rotory valve for changing from 'Bb' to 'A'. Accepts a cornet mpc and tapers all the way to a 4-1/2" bell, even has a "shepherds crook". I just don't see it catching on today anymore than I do the Monet. Too much cost for your basic, hardworking, barely making bills, hungry musician. Again, like Sam, I like the idea and definitely want to try it. Make one. I'll endorse it. (:>)) Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:15:00 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Conical Tbone Comeback Message-ID: <199912022014.NAA41042@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: sabutin@mindspring.com trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from sabutin@mindspring.com 12/02/99 1:32pm -0500 > Eric... > > Of course I'd try one. Me, too. > My skepticism derives from this idea...what WORKS best eventually > becomes part of common practice design, in a "survival of the fittest" sense. What works best doesn't necessarily prevail -- historical contingencies can override function. You don't need to look any further for an example than the QWERTY keyboard you're sitting at. QWERTY is drastically sub-optimal for speed typing. QWERTY was *designed* to be suboptimal -- the first type- writers struck the paper from below. The keys jammed if you typed too fast, and because the keywork was hidden you couldn't see the jam. There were lots of other layouts available in the early days. Why didn't one of them win? Because one of (if not the first) touch typists trained himself on a QWERTY keyboard. People assumed it was the keyboard rather than training to touch type that allowed such speed. Bingo -- I'm still typing on a sub-optimal keyboard, designed for an instrument found only in a few museums. Sure, I could retrain myself to use a Dvorak keyboard -- but the benefit doesn't outweigh the costs. (Aside: Why QWERTY? Stephen Gould speculates that it's because typewriter can be quickly typed from the upper row alone. For all the details on the QWERTY keyboard, see Gould's essay in Bully for Brontosaurus.) Want another example? How many Beta format videocassettes have you seen lately? Sony developed the VHS format with JVC. They saw serious problems with VHS, so they went their own way and developed Beta. But they wouldn't license Beta reasonably, so JVC, et al. sold VHS. Another example, from evolution. Giant pandas have a false "thumb" on their forepaws, used to strip leaves from bamboo. A thumb is a useful thing to have if you eat bamboo leaves, but pandas' ancestors lost their thumbs. Claws are useful if you need to tear into things ... For a giant panda, a fully articulated thumb would be a lot handier than the limited movement they have from this enlarged radial sesamoid. What does this have to do with trombone design? As far as the conical trombone goes, I'm not sure it does. There are serious structural problems to solve -- not least being maintaining slide alignment without a fixed brace. But history does tell us why we don't have "G" attachments on tenors: the "F" attachment was already in place. Both serve essentially the same purpose, and the pedagogic infrastructure for teaching the "F" attachment was in place. So, even though it is suboptimal (in the sense of minimizing slide movement generally) the "F" attachment wins. The idea that evolutionary designs are necessarily optimal is a fallacy related to Optimism (What IS, is good). What IS may be good, but it may equally be the result of blind fortune. Which may be the origin of the aphorism, "I'd rather be lucky than good." For me, I'd rather be lucky AND good. Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:32:42 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Online Archive of Digests Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alan Charlesworth made a very good suggestion today. Is there anyone who might be willing to (on a volunteer basis) receive the digest version of the trombone-l on a daily basis and create a web-accessible archive? If so, please contact me by return e-mail. LM From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:35:10 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: re. Online Archive of Digests Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After sending the earlier message, I discovered a method for doing this. Please disregard the previous message. From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 12:43:25 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: In praise of elitism Message-ID: <19991202204325.94794.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Maybe I told y'all this story and maybe not. Anyway· I tend to be a bit of a music pusher. I was driving two work mates out to lunch and popped Rite of Spring, into the cassette player, assuming that I'd get a reaction. As it played, I mentioned that Stavinsky, when faced with the sense that everything musical had already been said, took on a form of music, which incorporated polyrhythmic and polytonal layers, to more closely mimic the chaos of real life. As a result of being so experimental, he had gone into hiding, several times, after this piece had been performed· While this was going on, the Polish engineer, in the back seat, started freaking out. I had expected him to be the worldlier of the two. "This doesn't sound like Beethoven" he started. His agitation grew and grew until I began to be concerned with his health, my health and the health of our relationship. But it all fit so well into the tail I was telling, I allowed it go continue. Meanwhile, the machinist to my right was commenting that it sounded like a movie sound track, to something like Konan the Barbarian. He was right. Stravinsky-sounding music has become main stream. We, the general public, just hear it as soundtrack and not as music. Now if we could just get those moviegoers and TV watchers to acknowledge that the music and not the acting is moving them, we might be able to make some real money. I'm reminded of what an African friend had said. There are two kinds of music, what you dance to and what you sit and listen to. I'll add that being ignorant of music theory doesn't mean that you don't have sophisticated taste in music. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 12:50:41 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Help!! Dark Eyes Message-ID: <19991202205042.53948.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Although I am 100% Russian, by ancestry, I could never get the words right. I always felt they should be: Orche Tchornia Orche Tchornia I'm so hornya For Orche Tchornia Perhaps they are a Russian version of same. If you really MUST know, I could ask a Russian engineer that I work with. DanP >From: AlRobnett@aol.com >Reply-To: AlRobnett@aol.com >To: "Trombones and related issues forum." >Subject: Re: Help!! Dark Eyes >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:33:30 EST > >Nick, > >The most familiar Dark Eyes is a Russian folk song with the transliterated >name, Orche Tchornia > >Allen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:00:24 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Digest Archives Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After researching the listproc software, I found the easiest way to make a digest archive available would be to upload one. It will be available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks If anyone has the digests from 12/1 and 12/2 and would be so kind as to send them to me, it would be much appreciated. LM From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 13:08:46 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism Message-ID: <19991202210846.6655.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK. I guess I'm getting a bit tired of this thread. Will all of you that don't think of yourselves as music snobs please write and let us what kind of music you believe the masses should be listening to. Being that I'm a music snobs, myself, I have no idea what you're all talking about. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:09:03 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Conical Tbone Comeback Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Isn't a conical bored trumpet that has a shephards crook and takes a cornet mouthpiece called a cornet? Anyway, I have a trumpet and a couple of cornets. What I find interesting is that the trumpet really requires the movable first and third slides to be played in tune. The cornet seems to play pretty well in tune without them. In fact, the older of the two cornets does not even have a first valve saddle or a third valve ring. Its lead pipe also goes into the #1 valve instead of the #3. The bell also comes from the #3 valve like a fluegelhorn. Is the better intonation perhaps a benefit of the conical bore? Or is it just that my cornets are higher quality instruments than my trumpet? Ken Dowdy > I tried very hard to purchase the gold plated Couturier trombone > listed on > ebay, but was beaten out by $2 (another story). I was very interested in > trying > it also, because I own its smaller brother: a conical bore trumpet made > Sept.24, > 1918. It's a pretty decent horn and plays very well in tune. I'm glad > of > that, since there are no tuning slides on the valves, just the main slide > off the > lead pipe. Mine happens to be in excellent condition and I use it from > time to > time, but I also ask the question; Why didn't it catch on? I come up > with the > same answer as Sam. Cost. It's very well built, but without removable > slides a > real devil to clean. It also has a rotory valve for changing from 'Bb' to > 'A'. > Accepts a cornet mpc and tapers all the way to a 4-1/2" bell, even has a > "shepherds crook". > I just don't see it catching on today anymore than I do the Monet. > Too much > cost for your basic, hardworking, barely making bills, hungry musician. > > Again, like Sam, I like the idea and definitely want to try it. Make > one. > I'll endorse it. (:>)) > > Gary Maxwell > Bass Trombone > Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra > From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:17:04 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: In praise of elitism Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I'm reminded of what an African friend had said. There are two kinds of > music, what you dance to and what you sit and listen to. > Or rather, what you --dance to --put on for background because you can't stand quiet --jump into mosh pits by --have wash over your ears in stores or when you're on hold --etc. and what you sit and listen to. Part of the challenge nowadays is to get people to sit and listen! Bebop jazz was born when certain jazz musicians were not content to make music to dance to. They wanted to make music to sit and listen to. They recognized that not all music really repays the effort of sitting and listening. That's about when jazz became art music. It's about the same time when jazz lost its mass audience and became music for connoisseurs. I remember years ago I used to listen to a radio station in San Diego that played jazz in the morning and classical music in the afternoon. Then they changed their format to all classical. When I called to ask why, I was told that the station had new owners who insisted on a single format and that the audience for jazz was smaller than the audience for classical music. I have no idea if that is or was generally true outside of San Diego, but I assume that they had done their homework. Personally, I enjoy big band dance music more than bebop. I guess that makes me a jazz lowbrow. But as I have said before, music for connoisseurs takes more effort to listen to than music for the masses, but amply repays that effort. That's essentially what I mean by saying that it's better music. Strauss waltzes, Foster songs, and whatever late 20th-century music is of comparable quality are good in their own way, but far less substantial than a Bach fugue or Beethoven symphony or Schubert song. That's why it turns up on pops concerts and informal concerts, but not at "highbrow" concerts. But as I say, it is necessary to recruit people who are willing to put in the effort in the first place. For anything, there will always be fewer connoisseurs than masses. In a mass market society, there is danger of Gresham's Law working in the arts as it does in the money supply. (The bad drives out the good.) ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:26:11 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Music for the Masses (was It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In an ideal world, the masses would listen to whatever pleased them and would not be thought poorly of because of it. However, since the world is far from ideal, I don't think it at all unreasonable that the masses be required to listen only to music composed and performed by me, and that they should enjoy it. Just kidding. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Pliskin [SMTP:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 3:09 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism > > OK. I guess I'm getting a bit tired of this thread. > > Will all of you that don't think of yourselves as music snobs please write > > and let us what kind of music you believe the masses should be listening > to. > Being that I'm a music snobs, myself, I have no idea what you're all > talking about. > > DanP > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 13:35:05 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: kdowdy@oppd.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Conical Tbone Comeback Message-ID: <3846E608.2822DD72@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DOWDY, KENNETH S wrote: > Isn't a conical bored trumpet that has a shephards crook and takes a cornet > mouthpiece called a cornet? Not in this case. I thought so also, but, and I do not remember his name, a collector on the Brass-L varified mine to be a Trumpet. It seems that there were 19" and 21" trumpets made with the name Corturier on them, along with cornets of same make. > Anyway, I have a trumpet and a couple of > cornets. What I find interesting is that the trumpet really requires the > movable first and third slides to be played in tune. The cornet seems to > play pretty well in tune without them. In fact, the older of the two > cornets does not even have a first valve saddle or a third valve ring. Its > lead pipe also goes into the #1 valve instead of the #3. The bell also > comes from the #3 valve like a fluegelhorn. Is the better intonation > perhaps a benefit of the conical bore? Yes. And that was what A. Corturier of La Porte, Indiana was trying to do. Develop a trumpet that was literally built in tune at the factory. Conical does lean towards better intonation. > Or is it just that my cornets are > higher quality instruments than my trumpet? Don't know the quality of your trumpet or your cornets. (:>)) From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:56:48 EST From: TonyC789@aol.com To: botuba@netsurfer.ch, bcompose@ix.netcom.com, tasha5@earthlink.net, tom@johnsondigital.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu, Subject: OK Guys! Message-ID: <0.ca7b732d.25784520@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My conductor, Leonid Grin, asked me today to play a slol with the San Jose Symph. He SPECIFICALLY excluded the Vaughan-Williams. It is on our "Favorite Classics" series, so I want to do something lightish. What should I play? I am considering the Broughton, is it available with orchestra? Thanks for your help. Tony Clements From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:05 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:31:47 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A high school marching band playing "The Hits of Tom Jones." ;-) Chris >OK. I guess I'm getting a bit tired of this thread. > >Will all of you that don't think of yourselves as music snobs please write >and let us what kind of music you believe the masses should be listening to. > Being that I'm a music snobs, myself, I have no idea what you're all >talking about. > >DanP > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com http://www.waageworks.com "Wisdom comes from Knowledge. Knowledge comes from Good Judgement. Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement." _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 14:38:52 -0800 From: Sequoia Middle School To: TonyC789@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: OK Guys! Message-ID: <3846F4FC.FAE220F7@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if it is written for Orch & Euph/Trbn and I don't know if it is "light" enough for what you want either, but how about, "When Jesus Wept", by William Schuman? It's certainly a quick prepare. Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ TonyC789@aol.com wrote: > My conductor, Leonid Grin, asked me today to play a slol with the San Jose > Symph. He SPECIFICALLY excluded the Vaughan-Williams. It is on our "Favorite > Classics" series, so I want to do something lightish. What should I play? I > am considering the Broughton, is it available with orchestra? Thanks for your > help. > > Tony Clements From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 15:16:21 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism Message-ID: <19991202231621.10288.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >OK. I guess I'm getting a bit tired of this thread. > > > >Will all of you that don't think of yourselves as music snobs please >write > >and let us what kind of music you believe the masses should be listening >to. > > Being that I'm a music snobs, myself, I have no idea what you're all > >talking about. Great answers, but I'm afraid I'm going to lose my job. It's one thing to appear to be working and actually be writing e-mail. It's quite another to laugh out loud, here in my cube. On the other hand, I surely haven't heard from any non-snobs, on the list. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 16:58:39 -0700 From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: nick@hudson66.freeserve.co.uk, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Help!! Dark Eyes Message-ID: <4.1.19991202165554.00b37ab0@mail.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The relies so far have mentioned the Russian folk song Dark Eyes. I think Nick may instead be referring the Latin style tune. Jack Teagarden recorded it (my source has no notes) and my mom thinks Artie Shaw played it as well. Is this a description of it Nick? - Larry At 08:17 PM 12/1/99 +0000, Nick Hudson wrote: > > Hello all, > > I wonder if any of you guys can help me out? I'm getting together some sleeve > notes for my latest solo recording and need to find some details about 'Dark > Eyes' (composer/dates/interesting info etc....) > > It seems a very popular melody but know one seems to know much about it! > > Thanks to you all in advance. > > Kindest regards and best wishes > > Nick Hudson > > The Nick Hudson Web Site > www.hudson66.freeserve.co.uk > From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:57:34 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Minick bass on ebay Message-ID: <001301bf3d29$63c6f540$5cb694d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF3CE6.546C6DC0"

Disclaimer: I have no personal interest involved here.
 
There is a Minick bass trombone on Ebay.  Rod
 From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:16:37 EST From: Andrewsjon@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Snobbism Message-ID: <0.5132db8a.257873f5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/2/99 4:32:48 PM Central Standard Time, basstbn@waageworks.com writes: < A high school marching band playing "The Hits of Tom Jones." > ...Or any band, orchestra, marching corps, lounge act, R&B band, karaoke club, playing "The Hits of Beethoven." (Roll over Beethoven, Roll Over...) Jon From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:26:55 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: g.richards@xtra.co.nz, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: throat constriction/noises Message-ID: <0.14faf6e6.2578846f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only voluntary throat restriction I use is in soft playing. This a technique that is quite useful in long soft passages when one can use a nice covered tone for blending or the distance effect. -Wes Guess I should get ready for the flames. I don't know what you guys think of this technique and short of being disrespectful, I don't care. Well, that is not true - I do care what you think. All I can say is that this works for me. I have spent a good deal of time tuning it and it works well for ME. I find it most useful in chamber and solo work. From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:28:01 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: g.richards@xtra.co.nz, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: throat constriction/noises take 2 Message-ID: <0.5f23623c.257884b1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually for clarification, it is my glottis that I use to restrict the air flow in SOME soft passages. wes From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:02:41 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: Andrewsjon@aol.com Cc: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Another Timely Virus Warning for us Trombonists Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >In a message dated 12/1/99 9:08:51 PM Central Standard Time, >DyessJW@hal.lamar.edu writes: > ><< This is not a traditional jig or a reel but is a Balkan virus in13/8 whose >insidious counter-Celtic rhythms will erase ALL tunes in your memory and >the memory of anyone who hears it, and replace all of them with a random >excerpt from Snoop Doggy Dog's greatest hits. >> > >What key is the Valkin Virus in? Snoop Doggy Dog? Cool. I am SOOOOO sorry that I forgot to add the trombone content to that virus alert. Silly me. And da trombones went (sing a smear here): neyah, neyah, neeeyaaaaaahhhh, neya, neya, neyaaaaa, neyah, neyah, neeeeeyyyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) W.D. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Wayne Dyess, Ed.D. Tel. +1-409-880-8146 _/ _/ Lamar University Music Dept. _/ _/ P.O.Box 10044, Beaumont, TX.77710 _/ _/ _/ _/ United Musical Instruments (UMI) _/ _/ "If it sounds good, it is good." -Duke Ellington _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Old trombone players never die; They just slide away! From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:53:01 -0500 From: Steve Butterworth To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Conical Bore Trombones Message-ID: <3847308D.D04BF0ED@istar.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By conical bore trombones, do you guys mean dual bore horns? Or is this something with a dual bore slide and an exagerated bell flare? There are a number of what could be considered conical bore trombones on the market. They are most notably German type trombones with dual bore slides and larger bell sections. I know of a number of bass trombonists who play dual bore Edwards trombones. Yamaha has started making a series of German trombones for the European market that are dual bore with the rotor at the back of the bell section. The problem with German trombones for most of us is that the spacial set-up does not resemble a typical trombone therefore it is difficult to switch(Bell is usually cloder to your nose than we're used to).The Yamaha has "standard" proportions with a German sound. There are more and more conductors asking the trumpets to play Rotary valve trumpets. Are we next? Is anyone aware of other manufacturers designing and building German trombones in this fashion? I have tried a couple and they are very nice horns, especially for Brahms, Bruckner, Beethoven and especially if the trumpets are playing rotary valve trumpets. Just some Thursday night ramblings. Steve From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:23:45 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: jfend@accelnet.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Navy School of Music Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 8:22 PM -0800 12/1/99, Randy Fendrick wrote: >I was standing the shower recently, (the best place to think) recalling >the days when I was in the Navy School of Music in Washington D.C.These >dates were from April 1958-Jan. 1959. My trombone instructor was a guy >in the Army, whose name I do not recall. I never heard him play, but >remember very well when he caught me sight reading my lessons. Real >stupid on my part, but when you are an 18 year old kid you do stupid >stuff. Does anyone out there recall who this guy was and does anyone >know where he might be located? If you can shed any light on my past, >please e-mail me privately as I would like to contact this guy. I don't >know why but it sounds good now. Thanking you all in advance, >Cheers; >Randy Fendrick, trombone & co-leader Southside Chicago Seven, >Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra. My doctoral dissertation was "A History of the United States Navy Band, 1918-1988). What a glorious time in history, from the late 1940s through the 1950s. Wonderful musicians. Upon looking at the 1958-1959 section of my dissertation, I find very little in the way of trombone content (uh-oh). But I do see where Frederick Fennell and composer Don Gillis guest conducted the U.S. Navy Band during a clinic in 1956 at the Department of Commerce Auditorium in downtown Washington. In those days, the School of Music was hosting what became an annual event: The All-Eastern Band and Instrumental Clinic." These type of things continue to this day. That chapter concludes with a brief biography of several of the Navy Band's tour soloists, but because the scope of my dissertation was limited to the band -- I didn't delve into the personnel of the School of Music. One of the things one learns when writing one of these things is that you just can't do it all. I would like to throw out the following challenge to someone. If you are looking for a doctoral dissertation topic (which no one else can have written), then perhaps a history of the famed Navy School of Music might be an interesting topic. In June of 1926, Charles Benter (then the conductor of the U.S. Navy Band) was given approval by Congress to establish "The Navy School of Music" in conjunction with the Navy Band. It was the same year that the band's national tours were established, thereby bringing national exposure and recognition to the band. It would be interesting to know some of the names that helped to establish the success of what is now the Armed Forces School of Music, which moved to Norfolk, Virginia. But when? Many questions to be answered. Sorry I couldn't help with your question. Good luck in finding that name. Sincerely and best wishes, Dr. Wayne Dyess Ed.D. University of Houston, 1988 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Wayne Dyess, Ed.D. Tel. +1-409-880-8146 _/ _/ Lamar University Music Dept. _/ _/ P.O.Box 10044, Beaumont, TX.77710 _/ _/ _/ _/ United Musical Instruments (UMI) _/ _/ "If it sounds good, it is good." -Duke Ellington _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Old trombone players never die; They just slide away! From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:13:27 EST From: Yoda505@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE:Snobism Message-ID: <0.d0ad7b2c.25788f57@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that everybody should have to listen to an elementary school band playing a medley of Louie, Louie and Anagodadivida(sp?). :-P David Getsfrid From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:21:16 EST From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Snobism Message-ID: <0.6d4b828e.2578912c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think that everybody should have to listen to an elementary school band > playing a medley of Louie, Louie and Anagodadivida(sp?). > > :-P > > David Getsfrid Ooh, I remember "Louie, Louie" well. We played the same thing for literally the entire song except the last measure. My fellow 5th-grade trombone friend got in trouble because he got frustrated with the song's monotony and tore his music up. It was a milestone for me: the first song i memorized! ~Tommy From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:51:57 -0500 From: Robert Coulter To: Alise Oliver , "Bottom, Steve and Jessica" , Subject: X-MAS CONCERTS IN LOUISVILLE, KY Message-ID: <38473E5B.1F4F3BB@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Commonwealth Brass Band in holiday concert.... Sunday, December 5 4pm Saint Frances in the Fields Episcopal Church Louisville, KY Monday, December 6 7:30pm Wall Street United Methodist Church Jeffersonville, Indiana Program to include such favorites as: Sleigh Ride, Christmas Tryptich, In the Bleak Mid Winter, We Three Kings Swing, Carol Sing-a-Longs, and much more....(including soloists: David Centers euphonium, Quentin Sharpenstein tuba, Bob Webb cornet, and others) If you come, say hi to the young(est) tuba player there.(that would be me) Robert Coulter Solo BBb Bass Commonwealth Brass Band(etc...) From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:14:21 EST From: Yoda505@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Snobism Message-ID: <0.8f51b36f.25789d9d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.8f51b36f.25789d9d_boundary" Ha ha ha. Sounds like our bands 2nd Chair bone. He HATES repetitve stuff. But Louie, Louie has to be one of the greatest songs ever written. It is up with the charts by Mussorgsky, Wagner, Mozart, Bach etc. Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP; Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:25:54 1900 Received: from po.missouri.edu (po.missouri.edu [128.206.12.137]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (v65.4) with ESMTP; Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:25:36 -0500 Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by po.missouri.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA20307; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:25:11 -0600 Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by po.missouri.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16275 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:21:59 -0600 Received: from Atlbrvsnt@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id 7.0.6d4b828e (4198) for ; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:21:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <0.6d4b828e.2578912c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:21:16 EST Reply-To: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Precedence: bulk From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Snobism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > I think that everybody should have to listen to an elementary school band > playing a medley of Louie, Louie and Anagodadivida(sp?). > > :-P > > David Getsfrid Ooh, I remember "Louie, Louie" well. We played the same thing for literally the entire song except the last measure. My fellow 5th-grade trombone friend got in trouble because he got frustrated with the song's monotony and tore his music up. It was a milestone for me: the first song i memorized! ~Tommy From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:26:45 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Another Timely Virus Warning for us Trombonists Message-ID: <19991203052646.1137.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Uh-oh! I've yet to hear that 13/8 jig and I already occasionally get excerpts from Snoop's work in my head. Maybe arranged for trombone quartet....Hey, my former marching band did "Bills, Bills, Bills" by Brandy when it was hot off the press and some Master P in a show last year. Now if we could get a marching band to play in 13/8.... -Aaron R. Playing a diverse range of music on trombone! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:14:30 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991202221430.0088bc20@mail.yucca.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:08 PM 12/2/1999 PST, Daniel Pliskin wrote: >OK. I guess I'm getting a bit tired of this thread. > >Will all of you that don't think of yourselves as music snobs please write >and let us what kind of music you believe the masses should be listening >to. > Being that I'm a music snobs, myself, I have no idea what you're all >talking about. Probably anything by the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards would be OK... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446 W103d 12.700 (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:03:50 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: It's Not Elitism, It's Snobbism Message-ID: <38475D46.7AF067B0@lightspeed.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A middle school band playing anything recognizable. Gary Maxwell ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Waage wrote: > A high school marching band playing "The Hits of Tom Jones." > > ;-) > > Chris From ???@??? Fri Dec 03 07:57:06 1999 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:38:35 -0600 From: Angie Brunk To: g.richards@xtra.co.nz Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: trombone FAQ Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:05 PM +1300 12/2/99, Richards wrote: >While I agree in essence with the idea of expanding the trombone FAQ, the >fact that the trombone-L archives are easily accessible and >keyword-searchable makes the effort involved seem rather unworthwhile. Any >true seeker of knowledge shouldn't mind wading thru all the unrelated and >repetitive stuff a search of the archives brings up to find a nugget of >pure enlightenment therein. I suppose you walked to school uphill both ways in 3 feet of snow-an liked it! Really, what makes you want to hoard knowledge unless one is a "true seeker of knowledge" and how does one become a "true seeker of knowledge?" I'm putting on my reference librarian/archivist's hat here. Keyword searchable does *not* mean easily acessible. A FAQ is a finding aide if you will-a good point at which to start one's search for information. If a FAQ is not updated, it is useless as a starting point for information gathering. For some people, the information contained in the FAQ may be enough. That does not mean they are not a "true seeker of knowledge." It just means, at that time, there information needs were pretty basic. If they seek more in depth information, hopefully the FAQ would give them an idea of where to start looking next. The list archives may be keyword searchable, but they have a very low precision rate because of the nature of this list. Librarians and archivists create finding aids and string together often complex boolean searches because sifting through search results that are more chaff than wheat does not help anyone. It often frustrates even the most dedicated researcher. Angie Brunk MLS Indiana University School of Library and Information Science 1999 "As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever."--Clarence Darrow