Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 13 Date: Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 13 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Daniel Pliskin) 2. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Harlan Feinstein) 3. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Keith Marr) 4. Fw: Jazz Cimbasso (Eliezer Aharoni) 5. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Dennis Clason) 6. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Howard Weiner) 7. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Craig Parmerlee) 8. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Dennis Clason) 9. Buffalo, NY premiere on Sat (Monique Buzzart?) 10. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 11. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 12. Re: Fw: Jazz Cimbasso (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 13. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 14. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Tom Izzo) 15. Re: Jazz Cimbasso (Walter Barrett) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:01:47 -0700 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Trombone List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved brass instruments? I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford one, pick up a cimmasso and play it? DanP > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:49:37 +0100 > From: Timothy.A.Richardson@EUR.ARMY.MIL > To: swan325@earthlink.net; trombone-l@samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > > Bored hearing the melody? > > Never! > > You know the old saying: I know the melody. And you know the melody. > And I'm paying you to play the melody, so play the freakin melody. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric & Candice Swanson [mailto:swan325@earthlink.net] > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:46 PM > To: Trombone List > Subject: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > > OK, I can't resist sending this. I happened across the cimbasso page > and found a link to a guy from the WDR Big Band in Cologne playing jazz > cimbasso. He's not bad. If fact I think he's my favorite jazz cimbasso > > player of all time. If you get bored hearing him play the melody, skip > up to about 3/8 of the way through to hear his jazz playing. > > http://www.quesonegro.de/I_cover_the_waterfront_cimbasso.mp3 > > Eric Swanson > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:12:18 -0700 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Daniel Pliskin Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Daniel Pliskin wrote: > Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved > brass instruments? > > I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than > euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford > one, pick up a cimmasso and play it? Can't speak from personal experience, but yeah, should be able to. I think they're typically pitched in F or G, usually have 4 valves. Don't think it's in the tuba family, more like a baritone horn, though roughly the same bore as bass trombone. (Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these counts) I imagine the parts are in concert key? --Harlan ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:21:43 -0000 From: "Keith Marr" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: "Harlan Feinstein" , "Daniel Pliskin" Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Our tuba player is looking for one. I forwarded the sound clip to him. As long as it's a 4-valver he says it'll be no problem to play. Probably easier for him to pick up and someone like me who hasn't used valves for about 465 years! Cheers! Keith in Bb/F/D Bass Trombone: St Albans Symphony Orchestra, Page Three Big Band and Mid Herts Jazz Orchestra Soloist: Alto, Tenor and Bass Trombones ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:26:44 +0200 From: Eliezer Aharoni Subject: [Trombone-l] Fw: Jazz Cimbasso To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <000b01c88466$3e73db90$7eb019ac@home6eca4ca62f> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response > The Cimbasso is actually a low version of a valve (bass) trombone, so it > is cylidrical (euphoniums, like tubas, cornets and flugelhorns, are > conical). > Cimbasso is a regular brass instrument, and the difficulty mainly lays in > the pitch and one's ability to adopt to the basic tonality of the > instrument. > Most contemporary Cimbassi are pitched in C, made mainly in Germany and > have rotary valves, and are very much like tubas in range, but in Verdi's > time they were mainly in F, mainly Italy -made and had upright valve. They > were also used in rural wind bands and also called " Flicorni Bassi > Gravi". > The modern ones are in upright position and have an adjustable "leg" so > that they are easy to fit to the player's position. > > The ones in upright position > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Pliskin" > To: "Trombone List" > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > > >> >> >> >> Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved brass >> instruments? >> >> I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than >> euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford one, >> pick up a cimmasso and play it? >> >> DanP >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:49:37 +0100 >>> From: Timothy.A.Richardson@EUR.ARMY.MIL >>> To: swan325@earthlink.net; trombone-l@samford.edu >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso >>> >>> Bored hearing the melody? >>> >>> Never! >>> >>> You know the old saying: I know the melody. And you know the melody. >>> And I'm paying you to play the melody, so play the freakin melody. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Eric & Candice Swanson [mailto:swan325@earthlink.net] >>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:46 PM >>> To: Trombone List >>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso >>> >>> OK, I can't resist sending this. I happened across the cimbasso page >>> and found a link to a guy from the WDR Big Band in Cologne playing jazz >>> cimbasso. He's not bad. If fact I think he's my favorite jazz cimbasso >>> >>> player of all time. If you get bored hearing him play the melody, skip >>> up to about 3/8 of the way through to hear his jazz playing. >>> >>> http://www.quesonegro.de/I_cover_the_waterfront_cimbasso.mp3 >>> >>> Eric Swanson >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! >> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:29:45 -0600 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Harlan Feinstein Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <47D81309.60501@nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed A cimbasso is (basically) a valve contrabass trombone. The parts (where they exist, which is usually in Verdi and Puccini operas) are usually covered by a tubist. If you can play an F-tuba, adapting to a cimbasso isn't that big a deal. Harlan Feinstein wrote: > On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > >> Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved >> brass instruments? >> >> I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than >> euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford >> one, pick up a cimmasso and play it? >> > > > Can't speak from personal experience, but yeah, should be able to. I > think they're typically pitched in F or G, usually have 4 valves. > Don't think it's in the tuba family, more like a baritone horn, > though roughly the same bore as bass trombone. (Correct me if I'm > wrong on any of these counts) > > I imagine the parts are in concert key? > > --Harlan > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > -- -- Dennis L. Clason, Ph.D. University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:13:52 +0100 From: Howard Weiner Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Dennis Clason Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <0MKwh2-1JZWOt34oZ-0004cm@mrelayeu.kundenserver.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:29 12.03.2008 -0600, Dennis Clason wrote: >A cimbasso is (basically) a valve contrabass trombone. The parts (where >they exist, which is usually in Verdi and Puccini operas) are usually >covered by a tubist. I actually didn't want to get involved (invalved?) in this discussion, but I can't let Dennis' comment go unchallenged. The "cimbasso [that] is basically a valve contrabass trombone" has nothing at all to do with the historical instrument called "cimbasso"! Here is what I wrote during a similar discussion on the list a mere ten years ago: [self-quote] The term "cimbasso" has been the source of much confusion. A recent article by Renato Meucci, "The Cimbasso and Related Instruments in 19th-Century Italy" Galpin Society Journal 49 (1996) sheds much light into the cimbasso darkness. The name: The origin of the name is not known. Meucci writes: "There can be no doubt that the terms "corno basso" and "cimbasso" were synonymous. However the difference rested in a distinction of terminology: while _corno basso_ was academic, found only in treatises and theoretical works, _cimbasso_ was everyday musicians' jargon used in scores and tutors. I wish to advance here the theory that the term _cimbasso_ derives from an abbreviated form of _corno basso_ (or perhaps _corno in basso_) originally written _c. basso_ or _c. in basso_, whence _cimbasso_. This is indirectly confirmed by the lack of consistency in spelling, which varies from _cimbasso_ (most frequently) to _simbasso_ and _gimbasso_, with abbreviations such as _gibas_ found in manuscript scores and documents." What is or was a "cimbasso"? A manuscript from c. 1832 describes the _cimbasso_ as "a kind of serpent but of different shape, having a similar range and able to play in all keys." The original "cimbasso" was thus a wooden instrument (though some were apparently also made of metal) in bassoon form, with a cup mouthpiece. Meucchi's article shows several contemporary illustrations (with fingering charts) and also a photo of one of several surviving museum instruments. In the course of the 19th century, the "cimbasso" was supplanted by the ophecleide (both keyed and valved models), this in turn by the bombardone and pelittone (perhaps best described as forerunners of the tuba). The hitch is that all these instruments were also referred to as "cimbasso"!!! Then in 1881, a valved contrabass trombone was built at the request of Verdi, who didn't like the sound of the "bombardon." He felt that the bombardon didn't blend well with the trombones. The new instrument became known as the "trombone contrabbasso Verdi." It was for this instrument that Verdi wrote the parts in Otello and Falstaff. For those who want to know more, I highly recommend Meucchi's article. [edit: Meucchi's article in the Galpin Society Journal is the translation of an Italian-language article which includes an appendix listing several hundred works, mostly operas, that call for cimbasso.] The "Alexander cimbasso" is a whole different story. In the 1950s and 60s there was a fellow here in Germany, Hans Kunitz by name, who developed a sort of (slide) contrabass trombone. He gave his invention the name "cimbasso" because he was conviced that it was the instrument Verdi intended when he designated "cimbasso" in his scores. (I am aware of the chronological problems inherent here, but most people have unquestioningly accepted Kunitz's assertion. I'm just reporting.) In any case, Kunitz was also active as a writer on instruments, publishing a series of books on "Die Instrumentation" (Breitkopf & Haertel) still available today. In the volume dealing with the trombone he propagated, among other questionable things, his "cimbasso" as the true bass of the trombone family. Although it has to be obvious to any half-way informed reader that Kunitz was making things up as he went along, his writings on the trombone form the basis for much of German trombone scholarship even today (MGG, MGG2). That's also the reason for the misnamed "Alexander/Thein/Kalison/ etc. cimbasso," which is simply a bass/contrabass trombone. [/self-quote] Howard -- Howard Weiner h.weiner@online.de http://howard-weiner.de/ Tosca jumped to a conclusion. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:30:29 -0400 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Daniel Pliskin Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <47D82F55.8030806@acticalc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yes. If you can play a tuba you can play a cimbasso. Most of them are now made with 5 valves, matching the popular tuba fingerings. But considering they are typically pitches a4th or a 7th below a bass trombone, you don't really need to use the complicated fingerings very much. If you play in the middle register, which is plenty low for jazz improvisation, you'll be on the first 3 valves most of the time, and they work like the first 3 valves on any brass instrument. Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved brass instruments? > > I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford one, pick up a cimmasso and play it? > > DanP > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:31:14 -0600 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Howard Weiner Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <47D83D92.2010606@nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Howard, I recall the discussion from the last century (!?!), and there's no question that you're correct. I should have qualified my statement by saying the instrument used as a cimbasso *today* is basically a valve contrabass trombone. Dennis Howard Weiner wrote: > At 11:29 12.03.2008 -0600, Dennis Clason wrote: >> A cimbasso is (basically) a valve contrabass trombone. The parts (where >> they exist, which is usually in Verdi and Puccini operas) are usually >> covered by a tubist. > > I actually didn't want to get involved (invalved?) in this > discussion, but I can't let Dennis' comment go unchallenged. > > The "cimbasso [that] is basically a valve contrabass trombone" has > nothing at all to do with the historical instrument called "cimbasso"! > > Here is what I wrote during a similar discussion on the list a mere > ten years ago: > > [self-quote] > The term "cimbasso" has been the source of much confusion. A recent > article by Renato Meucci, "The Cimbasso and Related Instruments in > 19th-Century Italy" Galpin Society Journal 49 (1996) sheds much light > into the cimbasso darkness. > > The name: The origin of the name is not known. Meucci writes: "There > can be no doubt that the terms "corno basso" and "cimbasso" were > synonymous. However the difference rested in a distinction of > terminology: while _corno basso_ was academic, found only in treatises > and theoretical works, _cimbasso_ was everyday musicians' jargon used > in scores and tutors. I wish to advance here the theory that the term > _cimbasso_ derives from an abbreviated form of _corno basso_ (or > perhaps _corno in basso_) originally written _c. basso_ or _c. in > basso_, whence _cimbasso_. This is indirectly confirmed by the lack of > consistency in spelling, which varies from _cimbasso_ (most > frequently) to _simbasso_ and _gimbasso_, with abbreviations such as > _gibas_ found in manuscript scores and documents." > > What is or was a "cimbasso"? A manuscript from c. 1832 describes the > _cimbasso_ as "a kind of serpent but of different shape, having a > similar range and able to play in all keys." The original "cimbasso" > was thus a wooden instrument (though some were apparently also made of > metal) in bassoon form, with a cup mouthpiece. Meucchi's article shows > several contemporary illustrations (with fingering charts) and also a > photo of one of several surviving museum instruments. > > In the course of the 19th century, the "cimbasso" was supplanted by the > ophecleide (both keyed and valved models), this in turn by the > bombardone and pelittone (perhaps best described as forerunners of the > tuba). The hitch is that all these instruments were also referred to > as "cimbasso"!!! Then in 1881, a valved contrabass trombone was built > at the request of Verdi, who didn't like the sound of the "bombardon." > He felt that the bombardon didn't blend well with the trombones. The > new instrument became known as the "trombone contrabbasso Verdi." It > was for this instrument that Verdi wrote the parts in Otello and > Falstaff. > > For those who want to know more, I highly recommend Meucchi's article. > [edit: Meucchi's article in the Galpin Society Journal is the > translation of an Italian-language article which includes an appendix > listing several hundred works, mostly operas, that call for cimbasso.] > > The "Alexander cimbasso" is a whole different story. In the 1950s and 60s > there was a fellow here in Germany, Hans Kunitz by name, who developed > a sort of (slide) contrabass trombone. He gave his invention the name > "cimbasso" because he was conviced that it was the instrument Verdi > intended when he designated "cimbasso" in his scores. (I am aware of > the chronological problems inherent here, but most people have > unquestioningly accepted Kunitz's assertion. I'm just reporting.) > > In any case, Kunitz was also active as a writer on instruments, > publishing a series of books on "Die Instrumentation" (Breitkopf & > Haertel) still available today. In the volume dealing with the > trombone he propagated, among other questionable things, his > "cimbasso" as the true bass of the trombone family. Although it has to > be obvious to any half-way informed reader that Kunitz was making > things up as he went along, his writings on the trombone form the > basis for much of German trombone scholarship even today (MGG, MGG2). > That's also the reason for the misnamed "Alexander/Thein/Kalison/ etc. > cimbasso," which is simply a bass/contrabass trombone. > [/self-quote] > > Howard > > > > -- > Howard Weiner > h.weiner@online.de > http://howard-weiner.de/ > > Tosca jumped to a conclusion. > -- -- Dennis L. Clason, Ph.D. University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:40:35 -0400 From: Monique Buzzart? Subject: [Trombone-l] Buffalo, NY premiere on Sat To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Any trombonists here in the Buffalo area interested in new music? If so, read on (NYC trombonists, too)... Meet the Composer's "New Music for Soloist Champions" program premieres at Hallwalls on Saturday; I'll be doing a new piece for trombone and tape by Alice Shields (which as of now is set to open the concert)...and can get you a comp or pair of comps if let me know by 12 noon tomorrow, Thursday March 13th. More info at http://www.hallwalls.org/music_03.html Sorry for this late notice, I just got an email today that comps would be made available to the performers, so I wanted to spread the word. FYI, the NYC premiere of this concert is next week, on Wednesday, March 19th at Symphony Space - info at http://www.symphonyspace.org/event/2248 (tickets $15-$27) I can get comps for that, too, so let me know if you'd be interested in attending. The concert is repeated a third time at SUNY-Purchase on Monday March 24th http://www.purchase.edu/calendar/ViewEventPopup.aspx?eventId=3681 (free admission) Alice's new piece "The River of Memory" (2008) is more a tape and trombone piece than a trombone and tape piece, if you get my drift - quiet and mediative, a contrast to the stunningly dramatic "Mioritza: Requiem for Rachel Corrie" I commissioned from her in 2004. Both are good additions to the repertoire. Here's the press release from Meet the Composer: This March, America's preeminent commissioning organization Meet The Composer (MTC) steps out from behind the scenes to present three concerts across New York state. Entitled New Music for Soloist Champions, this is the culmination of a year-long project in which eight soloists - all major figures in the new music world - collaborated with eight diverse contemporary composers to create a wide-ranging body of new solo works. Funded by a grant from the New York State Music Fund, Soloist Champions was initiated by Meet The Composer in an attempt to recognize and support performers who have long been at the forefront of championing new music. "Individual performers are the engines of innovation in the new music field," says MTC President Ed Harsh. "With the Soloist Champions project, Meet The Composer wanted to give eight artists in this key group the resources to amplify their own initiative, to commission composers whose work they believe is rich and powerful." Meet The Composer chose eight soloists who are proven leaders in the world of new music and offered each the chance to commission a new work, approximately 12 minutes in duration, from the composer of his or her choice. The resulting pieces will be performed in three marathon-style concerts: March 15 in Asbury Hall in the Hallwalls Contemporary Arts Center in Buffalo, NY; March 19 at the Peter Sharp Theater at Symphony Space on New York's Upper West Side; and March 24 at the Recital Hall at SUNY/Purchase College in Purchase, NY. The performer-composer pairs are as follows: o Monique Buzzart? (trombone), champion of women composers, with composer Alice F. Shields, whose wide-ranging music is informed by classical Indian music and dance. o Dominic Donato (percussion), member of Talujon Percussion Quartet and performer with numerous new music ensembles, with composer Ushio Torikai, whose widely-commissioned works reflect her Asian heritage and Western training. o Margaret Lancaster (flute), known for inter-disciplinary works that incorporate dance, drama, and electronics, with composer Joan La Barbara, who has created a unique vocabulary of experimental vocal techniques. o Lisa Moore, the founding pianist of the Bang on a Can All-Stars, with composer Don Byron, whose singular voice explores the divergent traditions of Latin, Afro-Cuban, hip-hop, and klezmer music. o Min Xiao-Fen (pipa, a traditional Chinese instrument similar to the lute), celebrated for extending the pipa's range into jazz and new music, with composer Huang Ruo, a bright young presence on the contemporary music scene who has written a piece that kinetically incorporates the art of Norman Perryman while integrating Min Xiao-Fen's voice with Chinese folk music, the avant-garde, and Chinese folk-rock. o Mary Nessinger (mezzo-soprano), who lends her first-rate classical technique to new music, with composer Steven Burke, whose work is becoming known for its distinctive combination of beauty and compositional rigor. (Also featured will be Ted Mook, cello.) o Todd Reynolds, pan-genre violinist/electronic musician, with composer Michael Lowenstern, producer and composer of electronic music. o Taimur Sullivan (saxophone), who has given world premieres of over 100 compositions, with composer Jason Eckardt, whose work explores perceptual complexity and performance virtuosity. The eight resultant pieces reflect the diversity of our times by exploring a broad spectrum of musical genres. By assembling such a rich variety of performers and composers and presenting their work to three distinct audiences across New York state, Meet The Composer hopes to foster appreciation for such musical innovation while empowering soloists to continue their passionate advocacy for new music. -- *************************** Monique Buzzart? monique@buzzarte.org http://www.buzzarte.org ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 6:10:56 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Daniel Pliskin Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <275713.1205413856437.JavaMail.root@web16> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Yes and no. Certainly get a sound. But cimbasoo is a finicky beast. The nice ones play more like tubas than bass trombones. The bad ones play like bass trombones it a stuffed bison stuck in 'em. Really, like any double, it takes time to get the kinks out... especially pitch wise! J.c. ---- Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > > > Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved brass instruments? > > I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford one, pick up a cimmasso and play it? > > DanP > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:49:37 +0100 > > From: Timothy.A.Richardson@EUR.ARMY.MIL > > To: swan325@earthlink.net; trombone-l@samford.edu > > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > > > > Bored hearing the melody? > > > > Never! > > > > You know the old saying: I know the melody. And you know the melody. > > And I'm paying you to play the melody, so play the freakin melody. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric & Candice Swanson [mailto:swan325@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:46 PM > > To: Trombone List > > Subject: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > > > > OK, I can't resist sending this. I happened across the cimbasso page > > and found a link to a guy from the WDR Big Band in Cologne playing jazz > > cimbasso. He's not bad. If fact I think he's my favorite jazz cimbasso > > > > player of all time. If you get bored hearing him play the melody, skip > > up to about 3/8 of the way through to hear his jazz playing. > > > > http://www.quesonegro.de/I_cover_the_waterfront_cimbasso.mp3 > > > > Eric Swanson > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! > http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 6:11:43 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Harlan Feinstein Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <30914548.1205413903279.JavaMail.root@web16> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Regardless of bore size, they're contrabass valve trombones - far away from a euph... J.c.S. ---- Harlan Feinstein wrote: > > On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > > Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved > > brass instruments? > > > > I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than > > euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford > > one, pick up a cimmasso and play it? > > > Can't speak from personal experience, but yeah, should be able to. I > think they're typically pitched in F or G, usually have 4 valves. > Don't think it's in the tuba family, more like a baritone horn, > though roughly the same bore as bass trombone. (Correct me if I'm > wrong on any of these counts) > > I imagine the parts are in concert key? > > --Harlan > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 6:15:16 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Fw: Jazz Cimbasso To: Eliezer Aharoni Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <703195.1205414116162.JavaMail.root@web16> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Backwards. Most these days are in F, but CC, Eb, and BBb ones are still produced for those who prefer thse keys. Most of the CCs are dogs (woof). In Verdi's time, the bass trombone was in F, and the Cimbasso, tuba Verdi, was a BBb. But remember, cimbasso was always a very broad term, though not as much in Verdi's time. They could be anything from a bass horn (serpent) to an ophicleide... anything low and "brass". Even the F bass valve bone was used, admittedly. J.c.S. ---- Eliezer Aharoni wrote: > > > > > > The Cimbasso is actually a low version of a valve (bass) trombone, so it > > is cylidrical (euphoniums, like tubas, cornets and flugelhorns, are > > conical). > > Cimbasso is a regular brass instrument, and the difficulty mainly lays in > > the pitch and one's ability to adopt to the basic tonality of the > > instrument. > > Most contemporary Cimbassi are pitched in C, made mainly in Germany and > > have rotary valves, and are very much like tubas in range, but in Verdi's > > time they were mainly in F, mainly Italy -made and had upright valve. They > > were also used in rural wind bands and also called " Flicorni Bassi > > Gravi". > > The modern ones are in upright position and have an adjustable "leg" so > > that they are easy to fit to the player's position. > > > > The ones in upright position > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Daniel Pliskin" > > To: "Trombone List" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Is playing cimbasso all that different from playing other valved brass > >> instruments? > >> > >> I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more cylindrical than > >> euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve player, who can afford one, > >> pick up a cimmasso and play it? > >> > >> DanP > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:49:37 +0100 > >>> From: Timothy.A.Richardson@EUR.ARMY.MIL > >>> To: swan325@earthlink.net; trombone-l@samford.edu > >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > >>> > >>> Bored hearing the melody? > >>> > >>> Never! > >>> > >>> You know the old saying: I know the melody. And you know the melody. > >>> And I'm paying you to play the melody, so play the freakin melody. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Eric & Candice Swanson [mailto:swan325@earthlink.net] > >>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:46 PM > >>> To: Trombone List > >>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso > >>> > >>> OK, I can't resist sending this. I happened across the cimbasso page > >>> and found a link to a guy from the WDR Big Band in Cologne playing jazz > >>> cimbasso. He's not bad. If fact I think he's my favorite jazz cimbasso > >>> > >>> player of all time. If you get bored hearing him play the melody, skip > >>> up to about 3/8 of the way through to hear his jazz playing. > >>> > >>> http://www.quesonegro.de/I_cover_the_waterfront_cimbasso.mp3 > >>> > >>> Eric Swanson > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Trombone-l mailing list > >>> Trombone-l@samford.edu > >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! > >> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Trombone-l mailing list > >> Trombone-l@samford.edu > >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 6:16:55 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Howard Weiner Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <6790061.1205414215772.JavaMail.root@web16> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Right on, and more than I had time to type. Howard, your contributions are always so terrific! J.c.S. ---- Howard Weiner wrote: > At 11:29 12.03.2008 -0600, Dennis Clason wrote: > >A cimbasso is (basically) a valve contrabass trombone. The parts (where > >they exist, which is usually in Verdi and Puccini operas) are usually > >covered by a tubist. > > I actually didn't want to get involved (invalved?) in this > discussion, but I can't let Dennis' comment go unchallenged. > > The "cimbasso [that] is basically a valve contrabass trombone" has > nothing at all to do with the historical instrument called "cimbasso"! > > Here is what I wrote during a similar discussion on the list a mere > ten years ago: > > [self-quote] > The term "cimbasso" has been the source of much confusion. A recent > article by Renato Meucci, "The Cimbasso and Related Instruments in > 19th-Century Italy" Galpin Society Journal 49 (1996) sheds much light > into the cimbasso darkness. > > The name: The origin of the name is not known. Meucci writes: "There > can be no doubt that the terms "corno basso" and "cimbasso" were > synonymous. However the difference rested in a distinction of > terminology: while _corno basso_ was academic, found only in > treatises and theoretical works, _cimbasso_ was everyday musicians' > jargon used in scores and tutors. I wish to advance here the theory > that the term _cimbasso_ derives from an abbreviated form of _corno > basso_ (or perhaps _corno in basso_) originally written _c. basso_ or > _c. in basso_, whence _cimbasso_. This is indirectly confirmed by the > lack of consistency in spelling, which varies from _cimbasso_ (most > frequently) to _simbasso_ and _gimbasso_, with abbreviations such as > _gibas_ found in manuscript scores and documents." > > What is or was a "cimbasso"? A manuscript from c. 1832 describes the > _cimbasso_ as "a kind of serpent but of different shape, having a > similar range and able to play in all keys." The original "cimbasso" > was thus a wooden instrument (though some were apparently also made > of metal) in bassoon form, with a cup mouthpiece. Meucchi's article > shows several contemporary illustrations (with fingering charts) and > also a photo of one of several surviving museum instruments. > > In the course of the 19th century, the "cimbasso" was supplanted by the > ophecleide (both keyed and valved models), this in turn by the > bombardone and pelittone (perhaps best described as forerunners of > the tuba). The hitch is that all these instruments were also referred > to as "cimbasso"!!! Then in 1881, a valved contrabass trombone was > built at the request of Verdi, who didn't like the sound of the > "bombardon." He felt that the bombardon didn't blend well with the > trombones. The new instrument became known as the "trombone > contrabbasso Verdi." It was for this instrument that Verdi wrote the > parts in Otello and Falstaff. > > For those who want to know more, I highly recommend Meucchi's article. > [edit: Meucchi's article in the Galpin Society Journal is the > translation of an Italian-language article which includes an appendix > listing several hundred works, mostly operas, that call for cimbasso.] > > The "Alexander cimbasso" is a whole different story. In the 1950s and 60s > there was a fellow here in Germany, Hans Kunitz by name, who > developed a sort of (slide) contrabass trombone. He gave his > invention the name "cimbasso" because he was conviced that it was the > instrument Verdi intended when he designated "cimbasso" in his > scores. (I am aware of the chronological problems inherent here, but > most people have unquestioningly accepted Kunitz's assertion. I'm > just reporting.) > > In any case, Kunitz was also active as a writer on instruments, > publishing a series of books on "Die Instrumentation" (Breitkopf & > Haertel) still available today. In the volume dealing with the > trombone he propagated, among other questionable things, his > "cimbasso" as the true bass of the trombone family. Although it has > to be obvious to any half-way informed reader that Kunitz was making > things up as he went along, his writings on the trombone form the > basis for much of German trombone scholarship even today (MGG, MGG2). > That's also the reason for the misnamed "Alexander/Thein/Kalison/ > etc. cimbasso," which is simply a bass/contrabass trombone. > [/self-quote] > > Howard > > > > -- > Howard Weiner > h.weiner@online.de > http://howard-weiner.de/ > > Tosca jumped to a conclusion. > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Harlan Feinstein , Daniel Pliskin Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <65560.5414.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Harlan Feinstein wrote: > > On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Daniel Pliskin wrote: > > > Is playing cimbasso all that different from > playing other valved > > brass instruments? > > > > I know it's odd shaped and it seems to be more > cylindrical than > > euphoniums. But can anyone low brass valve > player, who can afford > > one, pick up a cimmasso and play it? > > > Can't speak from personal experience, but yeah, > should be able to. I > think they're typically pitched in F or G, usually > have 4 valves. \ Mostly in F with 4, 5, or 6 valves. But I have seen them in G (Mirafone straight model), CC (Thein) and even in BBb (Thein). > Don't think it's in the tuba family, more like a > baritone horn, > though roughly the same bore as bass trombone. No, they're "in" in Trombone/Trumpet family. They are cylindrical instruments. Usually thought of as a Valved Contrabass Trombone. > (Correct me if I'm > wrong on any of these counts) > > I imagine the parts are in concert key? Concert pitch. Tom > > --Harlan > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Timpani & Percussion. http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 765-0154 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:53:23 -0400 From: Walter Barrett Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso To: Trombone List Message-ID: <9ED9F055-C4A5-4B2A-BCD5-32A87BF9239F@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Mar 13, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Tom Izzo wrote: > > Mostly in F with 4, 5, or 6 valves. But I have seen > them in G (Mirafone straight model), CC (Thein) and > even in BBb (Thein). Meinl Weston also makes one in Eb! Walter Barrett ?After I die, I shall return to earth as the doorkeeper of a bordello, and I won't let a single one of you in.? -Arturo Toscanini Alto, tenor, bass trombones Bass trumpet, euphonium, tuba Yamaha Artist/Clinician http://www.walterbarrett.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 13 ******************************************