Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 13 Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 13 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Leaky Rotary Valve (TRBNTERRY) 2. Re: How to take old Yamaha counterweights off? (Richardson, Timothy A Mr CIV USA IMCOM-Europe) 3. Re: Leaky Rotary Valve (Eric Edwards) 4. Re: Leaky Rotary Valve (Michael D McLemore) 5. So Cal listers... (ALEX ILES) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:08:51 -0500 From: TRBNTERRY@webtv.net (TRBNTERRY) Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Leaky Rotary Valve To: thetubameister@adelphia.net, TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu (Trombone-L) Message-ID: <19274-47B28973-2492@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII How much I really appreciate the input from several of you in regard to my leaky rotary valve. One of you mentioned that the leak often starts around the bearings. Pardon my ignorance, but how does the air by-pass the rotor and escape through the bearings ? As I said in my original post, I pour rotor oil down the F slide each time I play, which works on my old Besson euphonium worn valves. A good friend and repairman of mine, Stu Brenner, has been using STP instead of slide grease on slides for years. I'm wondering if STP, which is thicker, could stop the air leakage around the bearings. I'm acutely aware of how even a pin sized leak can affect a horn's playability, as I've had several experiences with that. I'm certainly going to take all your suggestions into consideration. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Terry "God looks down with favor upon those who create beauty" ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:51:18 +0100 From: "Richardson, Timothy A Mr CIV USA IMCOM-Europe" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] How to take old Yamaha counterweights off? To: , "Prinz" <1002-797@online.de> Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <461766D8F1473C49B52754F636B6D03731DB52@GRAF0308APCS081.EUR.DS.ARMY.MIL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And now we know the real story behind the M-80 in the cup mute legend. -----Original Message----- From: thetubameister@adelphia.net [mailto:thetubameister@adelphia.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 3:14 AM To: Prinz Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] How to take old Yamaha counterweights off? Blow torch. Seriously. J.c. ---- Prinz <1002-797@online.de> wrote: > Hello listers, > can anyone tell me how to get the long flatYamaha counterweights off? > Not the round ones they have now (and always had on the 354), > but those they used on the older 681 and 683. > > Thanks in advance > > Ludwig Prinz > prinz@online.de > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:12:19 -0600 From: "Eric Edwards" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Leaky Rotary Valve To: "Trombone-L" , "TRBNTERRY" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" The STP is much too thick for the bearings. A good key oil, I recommend Selmer or Yamaha, or 3 in 1 oil would be better. The oil bath doesn't work as well on rotors because there is a lot less surface area for the oil to cover. Thanks Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara, Jared & Lily Edwards "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has faded" "The wise man, when he holds his tongue, says more than the fool when he speaks" -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu]On Behalf Of TRBNTERRY Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:09 AM To: thetubameister@adelphia.net; Trombone-L Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Leaky Rotary Valve How much I really appreciate the input from several of you in regard to my leaky rotary valve. One of you mentioned that the leak often starts around the bearings. Pardon my ignorance, but how does the air by-pass the rotor and escape through the bearings ? As I said in my original post, I pour rotor oil down the F slide each time I play, which works on my old Besson euphonium worn valves. A good friend and repairman of mine, Stu Brenner, has been using STP instead of slide grease on slides for years. I'm wondering if STP, which is thicker, could stop the air leakage around the bearings. I'm acutely aware of how even a pin sized leak can affect a horn's playability, as I've had several experiences with that. I'm certainly going to take all your suggestions into consideration. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Terry "God looks down with favor upon those who create beauty" _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:12:38 -0600 From: "Michael D McLemore" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Leaky Rotary Valve To: "'TRBNTERRY'" , "'Trombone-L'" Message-ID: <000001c86e42$1bdc2bd0$0202a8c0@mdmclemore> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mike, I hand lapped valves all day long 5 days a week during my 4 year tenure at Greenhoe, so I will try to impart some of what I learned. You have to have a good fit on all three surfaces; the top and bottom bearings, and the face of the rotor. If you have air leaking through the bearings, you have more than just a problem with the bearings. The fit of all three surfaces depend greatly upon each other during the lapping process to insure a proper fit. If the bearings are "over-lapped" this creates a wobble in the rotor path. This wobble allows the face of the rotor to have excessive and inconsistent contact with the casing during the lapping process. IF you have a good bearing fit, and the rotor path is true, and the parts are in good order, and you are using the proper grit lapping compound, THEN you can ONLY take away the proper amount of material from the rotor face during lapping. In the end, you want just enough clearance so that there can be an airtight seal made on the face of the rotor with a THIN coat of oil. The bearings must have a good fit to keep the rotor path true, not to make an air tight seal. The rotor must seal itself or there will be trouble. In most cases, workers in factories just grind away at the lapping process until there is no way that the rotor can have contact with anything, even with the wobbly bearings. It feels smooth, but leaks like hell and will play like hell, too. It's the old "the more horns I crank out the better" mentality. I hope that this sheds some light. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. Best regards, Mike Michael D. McLemore mmclemore@charter.net -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of TRBNTERRY Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:09 AM To: thetubameister@adelphia.net; Trombone-L Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Leaky Rotary Valve How much I really appreciate the input from several of you in regard to my leaky rotary valve. One of you mentioned that the leak often starts around the bearings. Pardon my ignorance, but how does the air by-pass the rotor and escape through the bearings ? As I said in my original post, I pour rotor oil down the F slide each time I play, which works on my old Besson euphonium worn valves. A good friend and repairman of mine, Stu Brenner, has been using STP instead of slide grease on slides for years. I'm wondering if STP, which is thicker, could stop the air leakage around the bearings. I'm acutely aware of how even a pin sized leak can affect a horn's playability, as I've had several experiences with that. I'm certainly going to take all your suggestions into consideration. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Terry "God looks down with favor upon those who create beauty" _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:46:37 -0800 From: ALEX ILES Subject: [Trombone-l] So Cal listers... To: Trombone-L Message-ID: <95521F48-F011-4952-A2C5-5C228A40A5EB@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Tonight [one night only!!] at Charlie O's Bar and Grill... The Bill Reichenbach/Alex Iles Quintet. Three sets...first one starts @ 8pm Hope to see you there!! Charlie O's Bar and Grill 13725 Victory Boulevard Van Nuys, CA 91401 818-994-3058 LX ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 13 ******************************************