Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 36, Issue 2 Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 36, Issue 2 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Tommy Turk (Stan Brager) 2. Re: Tommy Turk - Redux (Stan Brager) 3. Re: Tommy Turk - Redux (Chris Tune) 4. Re: Happy new yearrrrrrrrrrrrr (Wayne Dyess) 5. Re: Berlioz, Beethoven (Frank Darmiento) 6. Re: New York Phil concert (Dave Demko) 7. Re: Tommy Turk - Redux (Wessner, John) 8. Re: Tommy Turk - Redux (Bob Koester) 9. Re: Tommy Turk (robert riddle) 10. Re: Berlioz, Beethoven (Howard Weiner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 10:37:54 -0800 From: "Stan Brager" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk To: "Dave Hanson" , Message-ID: <002701c84ca5$942d4a10$6501a8c0@Trombonisaurus> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Tommy Turk was indeed one of the top early trombonists who played an exciting brand of be-bop. I have the LP of the 1949 JATP concert. The players were: Roy Eldridge - trumpet Tommy Turk - trombone Charlie Parker - alto Flip Phillips, Lester Young - tenor Hank Jones - piano Ray Brown - bass Buddy Rich - drums The date was September 18, 1949 at Carnegie Hall. The tunes on the LP are: The Opener, Lester Leaps In, Embraceable You, and The Closer. Here's what the liner notes say about Turk: "Trombonist Tommy Turk was one the very few JATP musicians who was not a major national figure. [Norman] Granz found him in his native Pittsburgh and he made a couple of tours with JATP. After this tour he returned to Pittsburgh where he continued to be a popular local attraction. By the late 1960's he had moved to Las Vegas and died there in 1982, after being shot by a gunman in a hold-up. His playing owes much to Bill Harris, although his bumptious style lacks the subtlety of his role model." I hope this answers your questions. Stan Stan Brager ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hanson" To: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk I was recently going through my many CD's and ran across one with the little known trombonist Tommy Turk on a Norman Granz, Jazz at the Philharmonic recording. Also at this event was Charlie Parker as I remember but have lost the jeweled box it came in, that lists all the players. This was performed in 1949 long before I heard jazzers like Frank Rosolino and J.J. Johnson. Anyone on this list familiar with Tommy Turk ? Happy New Year all ! Dave Hanson Atlanta ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:52:45 -0800 From: "Stan Brager" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux To: "Dave Hanson" , "Trombone-L" Message-ID: <002301c84caf$e544ac90$6501a8c0@Trombonisaurus> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I realized that I had a couple of CDs of JATP. One of them is from another Carnegie Hall concert on November 2, 1949. This one features 3 more cuts with Tommy Turk: Leap Here Indiana (Back Home Again In) Lover Come Back To Me The personnel is somewhat different with Sonny Criss joining Charlie Parker on alto, Fats Navarro on trumpet, and Shelly Manne on drums. Roy Eldridge, Lester Young and Buddy Rich are out. Other than these changes, the personnel on the above 3 cuts are the same as the September concert. Norman Granz does all the introductions. Cuts 5-8 feature Coleman Hawkins on tenor with Fats Navarro and the rhythm section. Rifftide Sophisticated lady The Things We Did Last Summer Stuffy Stan Stan Brager ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hanson" To: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk I was recently going through my many CD's and ran across one with the little known trombonist Tommy Turk on a Norman Granz, Jazz at the Philharmonic recording. Also at this event was Charlie Parker as I remember but have lost the jeweled box it came in, that lists all the players. This was performed in 1949 long before I heard jazzers like Frank Rosolino and J.J. Johnson. Anyone on this list familiar with Tommy Turk ? Happy New Year all ! Dave Hanson Atlanta ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:58:22 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux To: "'Stan Brager'" , "'Dave Hanson'" , "'Trombone-L'" Message-ID: <000601c84cb9$0bb63390$23229ab0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd like to hear these JATP. I've heard many times just how advanced Tommy Turk was. From the sound of it, he was way, way ahead of the typical 1940's jazz bone player. Also, from the sound of it, he was probably a different, more "instinctive" type of player (maybe I'm wrong about that). What techniques is Tommy using? I'm guessing he had multiple tongue and "across the grain" well in hand. Does he seem to have a master plan of attack or a logic, to his soloing, or does he seem to be really out on the ice (I sometimes imagine myself having been shoved out onto an ice rink and told to-- DANCE!!! My little analogy for improv). . . just totally impromptu? Chris Tune -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Stan Brager Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:53 AM To: Dave Hanson; Trombone-L Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux I realized that I had a couple of CDs of JATP. One of them is from another Carnegie Hall concert on November 2, 1949. This one features 3 more cuts with Tommy Turk: Leap Here Indiana (Back Home Again In) Lover Come Back To Me The personnel is somewhat different with Sonny Criss joining Charlie Parker on alto, Fats Navarro on trumpet, and Shelly Manne on drums. Roy Eldridge, Lester Young and Buddy Rich are out. Other than these changes, the personnel on the above 3 cuts are the same as the September concert. Norman Granz does all the introductions. Cuts 5-8 feature Coleman Hawkins on tenor with Fats Navarro and the rhythm section. Rifftide Sophisticated lady The Things We Did Last Summer Stuffy Stan Stan Brager ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hanson" To: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk I was recently going through my many CD's and ran across one with the little known trombonist Tommy Turk on a Norman Granz, Jazz at the Philharmonic recording. Also at this event was Charlie Parker as I remember but have lost the jeweled box it came in, that lists all the players. This was performed in 1949 long before I heard jazzers like Frank Rosolino and J.J. Johnson. Anyone on this list familiar with Tommy Turk ? Happy New Year all ! Dave Hanson Atlanta _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:44:14 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Happy new yearrrrrrrrrrrrr To: swan325@earthlink.net Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Sorry to hear about your windshield, Eric. Sounds like a gig I did recently in Tyler. I got a traffic ticket in a small Texas town (grump on Wells, Texas) on the way home. I had my cruise control set at 62 and thought all was well. I just missed the 50 MPH sign... it was sleepy out. I'll throw in my two cents... I played in Nacogdoches with the Tom Houston Orchestra. Pay there was only $175, and I drove 2-and-a-half hours one way to get there. But my wife and grandson made the trip with me. I probably spent almost as much as I made, but we had a great time. There's a lot to be said for that. Tom's band is a "cut-down" big band. 4 saxes, 6 brass, 4 rhythm, and 2 vocalists (including the leader). Tom is also a fine clarinetist, so we were doing lots of Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw. There were dancers from 6 states, several tables from Dallas and Houston, and most were the ballroom dance type. That made for a fun evening. I had fun on Buddy Morrow's "Night Train" and Sinatra's "I've Got You Under My Skin". This one was a half step higher than the version my band plays. We made the drive back home today, arriving home around noon. Not bad. The only negative we had was the hotel's promised continental breakfast didn't happen. :-) Wayne On Jan 1, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Eric & Candice Swanson wrote: > Well, if we're all telling what we did last night.... > > I was hired to play at a big party that had three bands. Two big > bands > of about 13 pieces each with a singer, and another small 4 piece band > with a sax player/singer, Johnny Reno. I was playing with one of the > big bands I regularly play with, Hunter Sullivan, but playing 2nd > instead of my regular bass trombone chair. At the last minute, I got > called to play in the other big band also (on lead). No big deal > because the band was to only play one 45 minute set before the two > main > bands played, basically alternating 45 sets. For a while around > midnight, all three bands were on stage and play simultaneously (the > same song). Anyway, I agreed to play the extra 45 minute set for > $200. > The Sullivan band paid $400, so I made $600 for four hours. Not bad. Dr. J. Wayne Dyess Professor of Trombone and Director of Jazz Studies P. O. Box 10044 Lamar University-Beaumont, Texas 77710 Visit our alumni jazz band website @ http://www.ndotex.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:52:09 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Darmiento Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Berlioz, Beethoven To: Dick Sleeman , Trombone-L Message-ID: <99388.70105.qm@web37413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dick - Don't know about the Berlioz, but the original notation version of Beethoven's 5th is for alto trombone. There are edited versions in print written for tenor (they move some of the high alto trombone notes to the trumpet section). The original part is in a nice range for the alto--if you play alto. If you're not comfortable on alto then do it on tenor. However, I think you wind up sounding too much like Kenton's trombone section playing the high E & F on tenor--unless you have a Watrous-like upper register. Frank --- Dick Sleeman wrote: > Listmates, > > We are going to play Berlioz's "Harold en Italie" > and Beethoven's "Fifth". > Are the 1st trombone parts written for alto? > Could they be played on a tenor? > > Best wishes for 2008! > > Regards, > > Dick Sleeman > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > Frank T. Darmiento Scottsdale, Arizona frank@darmiento.com www.SackbutMusic.com --------------------------- Frank Darmiento's latest jazz CD 'Sudden Impact' is available from Summit Records at: http://www.summitrecords.com/product.tmpl?SKU=339 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 16:57:26 -0500 From: "Dave Demko" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] New York Phil concert To: trombone-l Message-ID: <6e4c5d5c0801011357u7df2020kaa6e59946ce9daf@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Jan 1, 2008 12:06 PM, wrote: > >Dave - > > The trpt. solo in Bolero is in the 1st C part, usually played by the > Associate (3rd) trpt. as the 1st usually plays the piccolo trpt. part > (which is also really a solo part). The announcers usually don't know > much, and just look at an orchestra roster to say "who's on 1st". . . . and I Don't Know is on third. (rimshot!) ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:56:26 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux To: "Trombone-L" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" He was different than anybody else I listened to during the 50s - not counting JJ & Kay. I don't recall any multiple tonguing, but he definitely played articulated rips against the grain. I was probably too young to know then and too old to remember now how structured his solos were. I listened to him in quartets and quintets in clubs. He kicked butt, as was necessary in the setting. He was not playing for the likes of us today, but for people like my uncle, a salesman who knew every bartender in town and told my father that he thought the "choruses" were medleys. (That has contributed to some of my cynicism about people who critique jazz to this day.) His usual pianist in those days was John Bunch. It was all good musicians playing hard driving straight ahead jazz. I don't recall any be-bop heads. jw -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Tune Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:58 PM To: 'Stan Brager'; 'Dave Hanson'; 'Trombone-L' Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux I'd like to hear these JATP. I've heard many times just how advanced Tommy Turk was. From the sound of it, he was way, way ahead of the typical 1940's jazz bone player. Also, from the sound of it, he was probably a different, more "instinctive" type of player (maybe I'm wrong about that). What techniques is Tommy using? I'm guessing he had multiple tongue and "across the grain" well in hand. Does he seem to have a master plan of attack or a logic, to his soloing, or does he seem to be really out on the ice (I sometimes imagine myself having been shoved out onto an ice rink and told to-- DANCE!!! My little analogy for improv). . . just totally impromptu? Chris Tune -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Stan Brager Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:53 AM To: Dave Hanson; Trombone-L Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux I realized that I had a couple of CDs of JATP. One of them is from another Carnegie Hall concert on November 2, 1949. This one features 3 more cuts with Tommy Turk: Leap Here Indiana (Back Home Again In) Lover Come Back To Me The personnel is somewhat different with Sonny Criss joining Charlie Parker on alto, Fats Navarro on trumpet, and Shelly Manne on drums. Roy Eldridge, Lester Young and Buddy Rich are out. Other than these changes, the personnel on the above 3 cuts are the same as the September concert. Norman Granz does all the introductions. Cuts 5-8 feature Coleman Hawkins on tenor with Fats Navarro and the rhythm section. Rifftide Sophisticated lady The Things We Did Last Summer Stuffy Stan Stan Brager ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hanson" To: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk I was recently going through my many CD's and ran across one with the little known trombonist Tommy Turk on a Norman Granz, Jazz at the Philharmonic recording. Also at this event was Charlie Parker as I remember but have lost the jeweled box it came in, that lists all the players. This was performed in 1949 long before I heard jazzers like Frank Rosolino and J.J. Johnson. Anyone on this list familiar with Tommy Turk ? Happy New Year all ! Dave Hanson Atlanta _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:42:10 -0600 From: Bob Koester Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux To: "Wessner, John" , Trombone-L Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Bunch. Now there's a name from the past. What a great piano player!! When I first played Tony Bennett at the Latin Casino in Cherry Hill, NJ in '67 or '68, John Bunch was with Tony. What a treat!! Happy New Year to all, Bob Bob Koester, President MSI Financial Notice: This e-mail message and any attachment to this email message contain confidential information that my be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or disseminate this email or any attachments to it. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify us by return email or by telephone at 913-341-7108 and delete this message. You may also notify us by surface mail to MSI Financial, 3965 West 83rd St. #114, Prairie Village, KS 66208. Forwarded messages, replies to prior messages, or all of this message or attachments may not have originated at this email address. This notice is automatically appended to all emails leaving this email address. > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:56:26 -0500 > From: jwessner@towson.edu > To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux > > He was different than anybody else I listened to during the 50s - not counting JJ & Kay. I don't recall any multiple tonguing, but he definitely played articulated rips against the grain. I was probably too young to know then and too old to remember now how structured his solos were. I listened to him in quartets and quintets in clubs. He kicked butt, as was necessary in the setting. He was not playing for the likes of us today, but for people like my uncle, a salesman who knew every bartender in town and told my father that he thought the "choruses" were medleys. (That has contributed to some of my cynicism about people who critique jazz to this day.) His usual pianist in those days was John Bunch. It was all good musicians playing hard driving straight ahead jazz. I don't recall any be-bop heads. > jw > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Tune > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:58 PM > To: 'Stan Brager'; 'Dave Hanson'; 'Trombone-L' > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux > > I'd like to hear these JATP. I've heard many times just how advanced Tommy > Turk was. From the sound of it, he was way, way ahead of the typical 1940's > jazz bone player. Also, from the sound of it, he was probably a different, > more "instinctive" type of player (maybe I'm wrong about that). > > What techniques is Tommy using? I'm guessing he had multiple tongue and > "across the grain" well in hand. Does he seem to have a master plan of > attack or a logic, to his soloing, or does he seem to be really out on the > ice (I sometimes imagine myself having been shoved out onto an ice rink and > told to-- DANCE!!! My little analogy for improv). . . just totally > impromptu? > > Chris Tune > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] > On Behalf Of Stan Brager > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:53 AM > To: Dave Hanson; Trombone-L > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk - Redux > > I realized that I had a couple of CDs of JATP. One of them is from another > Carnegie Hall concert on November 2, 1949. This one features 3 more cuts > with Tommy Turk: > > Leap Here > Indiana (Back Home Again In) > Lover Come Back To Me > > The personnel is somewhat different with Sonny Criss joining Charlie Parker > on alto, Fats Navarro on trumpet, and Shelly Manne on drums. Roy Eldridge, > Lester Young and Buddy Rich are out. Other than these changes, the personnel > > on the above 3 cuts are the same as the September concert. Norman Granz does > > all the introductions. > > Cuts 5-8 feature Coleman Hawkins on tenor with Fats Navarro and the rhythm > section. > > Rifftide > Sophisticated lady > The Things We Did Last Summer > Stuffy > > Stan > Stan Brager > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Hanson" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:44 AM > Subject: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk > > > I was recently going through my many CD's and ran across one with the little > > known trombonist Tommy Turk on a Norman Granz, Jazz at the Philharmonic > recording. Also at this event was Charlie Parker as I remember but have lost > > the jeweled box it came in, that lists all the players. > > This was performed in 1949 long before I heard jazzers like Frank Rosolino > and J.J. Johnson. Anyone on this list familiar with Tommy Turk ? > > Happy New Year all ! > > Dave Hanson > Atlanta > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:15:08 -0800 (PST) From: robert riddle Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tommy Turk To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <32496.87624.qm@web52802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi! and Happy New Year one and all!!! Tommy left Pittsburgh sometime in the mid/late 1970's and moved to Las Vegas where he made a very good living playing shows and jazz gigs from what Iv'e been told.He recorded an album right before he left entitled " The Truth".As was mentioned Flo Cassinelli was on this date as well as Reid Jaynes(piano),and I think Mike Taylor on bass though I'm not 100%sure of that,John Schmidt(drums)who was only 19 years old at that time.I was lucky enough to meet and hang with Tommy a few times when he would come back for an occaisional visit.Unbelievable control and technique combined with a great melodic sense. He was always very informative and supportive of what I was trying to learn. VHY Bob Riddle ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:17:15 +0100 From: Howard Weiner Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Berlioz, Beethoven To: frank@darmiento.com, Dick Sleeman , Trombone-L Message-ID: <0MKwtQ-1J9zk03rdY-0007l4@mrelayeu.kundenserver.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 13:52 01.01.2008 -0800, Frank Darmiento wrote: >Don't know about the Berlioz, but the original >notation version of Beethoven's 5th is for alto >trombone. The original first trombone part of Beethoven's 5th is notated in alto clef, which however does not mean that it was intended for alto trombone. At the time Beethoven wrote the 5th, the alto trombone was not known in Vienna and Beethoven himself had probably never seen one. >The original part is in a nice range for the alto--if >you play alto. If you're not comfortable on alto then >do it on tenor. However, I think you wind up sounding >too much like Kenton's trombone section playing the >high E & F on tenor--unless you have a Watrous-like >upper register. Until thirty or forty years ago, in most symphony orchestras (don't know about Kenton's) it was normal for the part to be played on tenor. Howard -- Howard Weiner h.weiner@online.de http://howard-weiner.de/ Tosca jumped to a conclusion. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 36, Issue 2 *****************************************