Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27 Date: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Jazz Bakery (sabutin) 2. (no subject) (sabutin) 3. Re: Reply to those who have tried to answer my query (tom@sagamorebenefits.com) 4. Trombone notation (Jeff Thompson) 5. No longer the Jazz Bakery (Jeff Thompson) 6. Re: Trombone notation (Simon G. P. Bailey) 7. Sam Burtis w/Dave Liebman Big Band, 4/12-14. Michigan + Ohio (sabutin) 8. Re: blogs, breathing vs. blowing (Gabriel Langfur) 9. Fwd: Re: No longer the Jazz Bakery (sabutin) 10. trombone notation (Jeff Thompson) 11. Re: trombone notation (Simon G. P. Bailey) 12. Re: Trombone notation (Wayne Dyess) 13. Re: blogs, breathing vs. blowing (Earl Needham) 14. Dave Liebman Band (edneeley@juno.com) 15. Re: Dave Liebman Band (Adrian Drover) 16. Re: Dave Liebman Band (zemry1) 17. FW: RE: Dave Liebman Band (Elliott Moxley) 18. Re: Dave Liebman Band (Art Triggs) 19. Re: Dave Liebman Band (Gabriel Langfur) 20. Re: Dave Liebman Band (John Burton) 21. Re: Dave Liebman Band (edneeley@juno.com) 22. Re: Help! A question for everyone. (Jackie Harris-Stone) 23. Re: Ed Neeley (Peter Soukup) 24. Re: Troll dues (sabutin) 25. Re: Troll dues (Barry Green) 26. Re: Dave Liebman Band (Wayne Dyess) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:08:44 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Bakery To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Chris Tune wrote: > >You are a racist. No. I am not. You indict yourself with every word. I reject the American middle class way of life. Without regard to race. It is based on economic imperialism, on bogarting the joint to the SERIOUS detriment of most of the rest of the people on the face of the earth. And I firmly believe that if it does not change that attitude, the U.S. is going to get blown off the face of the earth in the fairly near future. It has ALWAYS been outnumbered. Soon it will be outgunned as well. I have adopted the life strategies of many outside the box cultures...the beat generation, the hippies, black, Hispanic and (MULTI-racial) jazz subcultures primary among them because they were the models to which I was most exposed as someone living in America when I came up...as a way to get by in a society the very basis of which is anathema to me. I know asses of every race. And good people of every race too. I do not give flying FIG about race. Only about action. And I do not like yours. Not one bit. So it goes. S. P.S. I thought Air America pretty well SUCKED. And I am no fan of Al Sharpton, either. I fit in none of your boxes, Chris. None of 'em. Bet on it. P.P.S. Is that direct enough for you? Or would you like some definitions? I am not "playing" with words. This is the way I think and talk. 24/7 It's the way I play, too. AND live. 24/7 >Racist means that race is a primary feature, a primary decider in >your world view. Today's racists aren't people trying to put down >people with some different ethnic background. Today people try to >play on foolish people's fears and emotions (take yourself for >example. . .) and make race the BIG ISSUE. Or, worse they make race >bating a profession--take Reverend Al Sharpton. . . .as example. > >But this doesn't change the fundamental fact--You are a RACIST. >I've also seen people be put down because they are black (my boss a >couple of years ago. . .now my friend). Myself, because I'm white >(VERY white was the term this racist person used). > >If you don't think it is appros to talk about how blacks put down >their friends and neighbors as "Oreo Cookies" or "Uncle Tom", then >you don't understand the origins of disadvantage for the Black >person in society. You may never understand. You are too busy >crying because there is no more "Air America". > >And you waste a lot of times playing games with words. Whether they >are "au courant" enough for your fool sensibilities. Incidentally, >I hope you come out here and do whatever you want. I can take it. >I just can't take the idiocy. > >Chris >----- Original Message ----- From: "sabutin" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:12 PM >Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Jazz Bakery > >> >I drive through all of those. . . South Central AND ritzy suburbs. . . >>> >>>Although there are "tendencies" and demographics. . . and of poverty >>>does tend to adhere with those who don't want to be "too white" and >>>therefore study right through college. . . . >>> >>>. . . it is not remarkable at all to find an African-American family >>>in a very nice home, very nice automobile in Beverly Hills, CA. . >>>.not uncommon by any means. >>> >>>also, although not very well known, but there are, in fact >>>anglo-saxons, orientals, etc. living in south central L.A. >>> >>>just shows who really lives off of stereo-types. >>> >>>Chris. >> >> >>C'mon, man... >> >>"Tendencies?" >> >>"Demographics?" >> >>And worst of all..."...poverty does tend to adhere with those who >>don't want to be "too white" and therefore study right through >>college." >> >>"TOO WHITE!!!???" >> >>Please. >> >>In America, poverty tends to adhere to whatever classes are initially >>burdened with the dirty end of the stick...usually those who arrive >>last or have been down so long it ALL looks like up to them...and are >>fairly easily marked as a servant caste. Skin color of course being >>the marker of choice wherever there are enough darker folks to fill >>the menial occupations of a upwardly mobile consumer society. It's >>just SO convenient. >> >>Sure there are darker people in primarily white suburbs. The >>overseers, mostly. And not TOO damned many of them lest white flight >>strike and housing prices plummet. >> >>And sure there are "others" in the ghettoes. Those who do not want to >>play the usury game, those who CANNOT play the game, and those who >>are getting in early on the almost inevitable gentrification >>movements as prices in the more choice areas skyrocket out of reach >>of the middle class. >> >>Really, Chris... >> >>S. >> >>P.S. It's "Asians" now, too. Not "orientals." >> >>Try telling Margaret Cho she's an oriental and see what happens. >> >>Tell me when you're gonna do it. >> >>I'll fly out. >> >>I would LOVE to watch. >> >>> >>> >>>---- sabutin wrote: >>>> > > From: Stan Brager >>>> >> >>>> >> I spoke with The Jazz Bakery and they'll allow people from Northern >>>> >> California in for this event. However, they'll have to sit >>>>in the back. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >I thought they'd abolished segregation in So. Cal. >>>> > >>>> >A. >>>> >>>> >>>> Dream on. >>>> >>>> Drive through South Central or a ritzy LA suburb for more on THAT subject. >>>> >>>> S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>_______________________________________________ >>Trombone-l mailing list >>Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:35:14 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: [Trombone-l] (no subject) To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi all... The amazing Dave Liebman Big band...you have to hear it to believe it, the band walks the line between freedom and control better than any large group that I have ever heard...has a few performing dates in April. 4/12-University of Michigan. Concert. 4/13-Hope college in Holland, MI. Concert. 4/14-University of Toledo. Clinics and concert. I am available for teaching work on either side of these dates in some sort of fairly easily traveled radius...say a couple of hundred miles, max...if anyone wants a clinician, guest artist, etc. Comps will be available, too. Email me for more info. See ya somewhere. Later... Sam ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:18:59 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Reply to those who have tried to answer my query To: Message-ID: <200701262117.l0QLH7H3029643@server5.samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A couple of you suggested a blockage of some kind in the horn but I'm confident that's not the problem. Several years ago I read an article that Watrous wrote in England on how he begins his warm-ups on high G and I have been doing the same ever since. I have always had a wide range and some suggested I'm suddenly (over two years!) using more pressure or somehow my embouchure has changed. I don't think that is it. Some mentioned over-blowing trying to compensate with the rock band. But I know that's not the problem, we're all miked so I don't over-blow. It's funny that some of you mentioned dental work. I had several replies that were emailed directly to me and many mentioned possible dental work. Well, it just so happens that I had a filling drop out of my back tooth about three years ago, about the time I noted a change! I went two entire years without getting it fixed but last summer I finally succumbed but I had waited so long I had to have not one but two caps put on! Earl mentioned his pitch has been going down as his teeth have been wearing down! With new caps maybe I suddenly have less room in the cavity of my mouth therefore changing the pitch. Price suggested practicing with a tuner but I have already been doing that and in fact leaving it on my stand even when I'm playing a gig. Thank you all and I'll let you know if I figure anything out. Tom -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu] On Behalf Of trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:00 PM To: trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 26 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:58:30 -0500 From: Jeff Thompson <7cuh-asb6@spamex.com> Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone notation To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <200701262201.l0QM1Qdd002859@server5.samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Hi all, I've been reading Kurt Dietrich's book on jazz trombonists. In it, he often refers to the playing range of various trombonists. In discussing the highest note they played on some record, he mentions notes like G3 or Bb2 or D3. I guess the 2 or 3 helps determine which octave a note is in. But I am not familiar with this notation system. Can someone explain it, or refer me to a pertinent web page? Thanks, Jeff Thompson ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:00:21 -0500 From: Jeff Thompson <7cuh-asb6@spamex.com> Subject: [Trombone-l] No longer the Jazz Bakery To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <200701262203.l0QM3NTD002903@server5.samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Hi Chris and Sam, A small request. Could you guys change the subject line of your current conversation to something else, besides the "Jazz Bakery"? Thanks, Jeff Thompson ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:10:57 +0100 From: "Simon G. P. Bailey" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trombone notation To: Jeff Thompson <7cuh-asb6@spamex.com> Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <96C1A3C5-EE64-4EE0-A998-53A12AE3C80B@uibk.ac.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jan 26, 2007, at 10:58 PM, Jeff Thompson wrote: > I've been reading Kurt Dietrich's book on jazz trombonists. In it, > he often refers to the playing range of various trombonists. In > discussing the highest note they played on some record, he mentions > notes like G3 or Bb2 or D3. > I guess the 2 or 3 helps determine which octave a note is in. But I > am not familiar with this notation system. > Can someone explain it, or refer me to a pertinent web page? i'm not sure, but his name sounds german. in german notation, c1 is middle c. however if he's talking about trombonists, a D3 is high. very high. combined with the fact though that in scientific notation middle c is c4, it seems most likely that he _is_ using german notation. see some more information here: http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm don't know if that helps, but it might. :) regards, sb ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:12:13 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: [Trombone-l] Sam Burtis w/Dave Liebman Big Band, 4/12-14. Michigan + Ohio To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" (Sorry...that post from me with ""no subject" as the title that you just received? Duh. Here it is again, WITH a title this time just in case you threw the first one out. Sorry.) ============================================================== Hi all... The amazing Dave Liebman Big band...you have to hear it to believe it, the band walks the line between freedom and control better than any large group that I have ever heard...has a few performing dates in April. 4/12-University of Michigan. Concert. 4/13-Hope college in Holland, MI. Concert. 4/14-University of Toledo. Clinics and concert. I am available for teaching work on either side of these dates in some sort of fairly easily traveled radius...say a couple of hundred miles, max...if anyone wants a clinician, guest artist, etc. Comps will be available, too. Email me for more info. See ya somewhere. Later... Sam ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:15:49 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] blogs, breathing vs. blowing To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <258126.87568.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I tend to think that if you're doing breathing exercises with careful attention to form and timing, they are as much about exhaling as about inhaling. I recently bought a couple of breathing toys, including the "Breath Builder" - the ping pong ball inside a tube with breathing tubes attached. To keep the ball suspended over a period of time, you have to be blowing OUT steadily over that entire period of time, or it will drop before you are done. Interesting...I'm still figuring out how to use it effectively. Gabe ----- Original Message ---- From: Denton Thomas To: trombone-l@samford.edu Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:43:09 PM Subject: [Trombone-l] blogs, breathing vs. blowing Ladies and Gents, What trombone-y blogs/columns you all read? I keep up with Jay's Reflections and some of Matt Guilford's blog. Any others you recommend? Second, I'm looking for information/exercises about blowing. Not breathing, exactly, but blowing/exhalation & efficiency. I know lots of good breathing exercises and I do some daily (keep moving, 4in 4out gradually longer, expand by holding/sipping, use intercostals not the glottis, many other jewels). Blowing exercises seem somewhat elusive. I know some concepts from Jan Kagarice, and bits from reading about hatha yoga. Good reading and/or practice suggestions wanted. Despite what some are thinking, I am disinterested in nsfw comments on blowing ... :p Denton -- DentonLT@usa.net / dentonlt.com +1.512.680.7395 DMA in Progress: Performance, Trombone The University of Texas at Austin _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:18:45 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: [Trombone-l] Fwd: Re: No longer the Jazz Bakery To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" > >>Hi Chris and Sam, >> >>A small request. Could you guys change the >>subject line of your current conversation to >>something else, besides the "Jazz Bakery"? >> >>Thanks, >>Jeff Thompson > >jeff... > >I am through with the whole thing. Sorry if your subject got hijacked. > >It started out pretty lighthearted. > >Suddenly, le d?luge. > >Sam > >>_______________________________________________ >>Trombone-l mailing list >>Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:50:40 -0500 From: Jeff Thompson <7cuh-asb6@spamex.com> Subject: [Trombone-l] trombone notation To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <200701262353.l0QNrFxT008573@server5.samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Thanks Simon, The section on scientific pitch notation at the following link: http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm seems to match what Dietrich is doing. BTW, Dietrich was the trombonist with the jazz/rock group called Matrix. He currently teaches trombone at Ripon University in Wisconsin. He has also written a book about Duke Ellington's trombonists. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:01:50 +0100 From: "Simon G. P. Bailey" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] trombone notation To: Jeff Thompson <7cuh-asb6@spamex.com> Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <257A14D4-5D7D-45CA-BAD5-CE87DEEB22C8@uibk.ac.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:50 AM, Jeff Thompson wrote: > Thanks Simon, > > The section on scientific pitch notation at the following link: > http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm > seems to match what Dietrich is doing. that surprises me. were your examples actual examples from the book? [in which case they'd be more like low notes -- Bb2 is the Bb on the 2nd line of bass clef...] > BTW, Dietrich was the trombonist with the jazz/rock group called > Matrix. He currently teaches trombone at Ripon University in > Wisconsin. He has also written a book about Duke Ellington's > trombonists. ah. living in austria influences me to think german sounding names _are_ german :) ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:24:59 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trombone notation To: Jeff Thompson <7cuh-asb6@spamex.com> Cc: Bone List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Are you a Mac user? If so, there is a great little dashboard widget that is neat. It includes a piano that spans 5 octaves, and tells you what octave the note is in, such as you mention here. C3, A3, etc. Very cool. Wayne Here's a really cool Dashboard widget. It calculates tap tempo, notes to Hz, hard disk space to time remaining, and other cool stuff. http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/music/bigbluelounge.html ========= On Jan 26, 2007, at 3:58 PM, Jeff Thompson wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been reading Kurt Dietrich's book on jazz trombonists. In it, > he often refers to the playing range of various trombonists. In > discussing the highest note they played on some record, he mentions > notes like G3 or Bb2 or D3. > I guess the 2 or 3 helps determine which octave a note is in. But I > am not familiar with this notation system. > Can someone explain it, or refer me to a pertinent web page? > > Thanks, > Jeff Thompson > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:41:55 -0700 From: Earl Needham Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] blogs, breathing vs. blowing To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:15 PM 1/26/2007, Gabriel Langfur wrote: >I tend to think that if you're doing breathing exercises with >careful attention to form and timing, they are as much about >exhaling as about inhaling. I recently bought a couple of breathing >toys, including the "Breath Builder" - the ping pong ball inside a >tube with breathing tubes attached. To keep the ball suspended over >a period of time, you have to be blowing OUT steadily over that >entire period of time, or it will drop before you are done. >Interesting...I'm still figuring out how to use it effectively. I've always been told to use one to work on "turnarounds" -- that time BETWEEN exhaling and inhaling. Earl KD5XB Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs "Just say NO to DHL" ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:40:26 GMT From: "edneeley@juno.com" Subject: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20070127.034042.864.84081@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Good Lord! Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA recording with him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad attacks, and terrible intonation. It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY players so he takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of tune players with crappy sound and bad time. A racist to boot! ed """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" <> ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm?csp=24 ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:21:18 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: , Message-ID: <002401c7420d$a60d5c50$0100a8c0@Adrian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > From: edneeley@juno.com > > Good Lord! > Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA recording with > him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad attacks, and terrible intonation. > It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY players so he > takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of tune players with crappy sound > and bad time. A racist to boot! Hey Sam, Ed really likes your playing. He just doesn't want to embarrass you in public by saying so. A. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:21:50 -0600 From: "zemry1" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: , Message-ID: <000001c7420d$b90f6370$6401a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" WOW!!! I haven't posted on this list in probably a year and now I see why. That is a totally unwarranted vicious personal attack. First thing, I've known Sam on-line for several years and I have never seen him exhibit any racist behaviour. Being African-American and from the south, I know racism when I see or hear it. Being a lawyer, I also wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you weren't placing yourself in a position for a possible defamation lawsuit. I would definitely think twice before I called a person a racist over the internet. Seeing as Sam is a professional musician and teacher, there is no doubt that your words could cause him a possible loss of income and damage his reputation. Being on the computer doesn't make you immune from a lawsuit. Secondly, Sam is a top notch musician. He has made a living playing trombone in New York. That is not something that I could do and I strongly suspect that you could not do it either! Moreover, Sam has willingly taken of his time to give FREE trombone advice over the internet, on this list and on other trombone sites. If you take the time to read some of his posts, you will see that he is a wealth of knowledge regarding the trombone and music in general. Think twice before making such posts! -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu] On Behalf Of edneeley@juno.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:40 AM To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Subject: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band Good Lord! Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA recording with him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad attacks, and terrible intonation. It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY players so he takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of tune players with crappy sound and bad time. A racist to boot! ed """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """ <> ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm ?csp=24 _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 07:32:19 -0500 From: "Elliott Moxley" Subject: [Trombone-l] FW: RE: Dave Liebman Band To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <410-220071627123219472@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Elliott Moxley edm5970@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. > [Original Message] > From: Elliott Moxley > To: edneeley@juno.com > Date: 1/27/2007 7:05:29 AM > Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band > > I'm generally just an observer here, but I'm tired reading this crap. I was brought up hearing "If you can't say anything nice about someone, don't say anything at all". > Maybe that teaching should be applied here- Enough is enough- > > > > [Original Message] > > From: edneeley@juno.com > > To: > > Date: 1/27/2007 6:42:10 AM > > Subject: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band > > > > Good Lord! > > Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA recording with him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad attacks, and terrible intonation. > > It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY players so he takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of tune players with crappy sound and bad time. A racist to boot! > > ed > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """ > > < > some sort of fairly easily traveled radius...say a couple of hundred > > miles, max...if anyone wants a clinician, guest artist, etc.>> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Interested in getting caught up on today's news? > > Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. > > http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm ?csp=24 > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 07:43:30 -0500 From: Art Triggs Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <45BB48F2.4010304@awtriggs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I will second what zemry1 said, and add to it.I lurk more often than not because of this tiresome behavior. I know Sam from working with him, and from listening to him and many other great players in NYC for many years. This troll has chosen one bad day to represent someone's playing that he does not know otherwise. (we all have bad days) Sam chooses his words according to what he thinks and believes, I happen to agree with some of it, not with some of the rest of it, like many would with me or anyone else. Sam's attitude about what he believes is a reflection of who he is, as much as this outburst is a reflection of who edneely is, my only thought about it is who would you rather be associated with? well except maybe don't feed the troll anymore....... Art Triggs zemry1 wrote: > WOW!!! I haven't posted on this list in probably a year and now I see why. > That is a totally unwarranted vicious personal attack. > > First thing, I've known Sam on-line for several years and I have never seen > him exhibit any racist behaviour. Being African-American and from the south, > I know racism when I see or hear it. Being a lawyer, I also wouldn't be the > least bit surprised if you weren't placing yourself in a position for a > possible defamation lawsuit. I would definitely think twice before I called > a person a racist over the internet. Seeing as Sam is a professional > musician and teacher, there is no doubt that your words could cause him a > possible loss of income and damage his reputation. Being on the computer > doesn't make you immune from a lawsuit. > > Secondly, Sam is a top notch musician. He has made a living playing trombone > in New York. That is not something that I could do and I strongly suspect > that you could not do it either! Moreover, Sam has willingly taken of his > time to give FREE trombone advice over the internet, on this list and on > other trombone sites. If you take the time to read some of his posts, you > will see that he is a wealth of knowledge regarding the trombone and music > in general. > > Think twice before making such posts! > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu > [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu] On Behalf Of > edneeley@juno.com > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:40 AM > To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU > Subject: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band > > Good Lord! > Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA recording with > him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad attacks, and terrible intonation. > It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY players so he > takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of tune players with crappy sound > and bad time. A racist to boot! > ed > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """ > < some sort of fairly easily traveled radius...say a couple of hundred > miles, max...if anyone wants a clinician, guest artist, etc.>> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Interested in getting caught up on today's news? > Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. > http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm > ?csp=24 > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:07:45 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <899243.93623.qm@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Third. ----- Original Message ---- From: Art Triggs To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:43:30 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band I will second what zemry1 said, and add to it.I lurk more often than not because of this tiresome behavior. I know Sam from working with him, and from listening to him and many other great players in NYC for many years. This troll has chosen one bad day to represent someone's playing that he does not know otherwise. (we all have bad days) Sam chooses his words according to what he thinks and believes, I happen to agree with some of it, not with some of the rest of it, like many would with me or anyone else. Sam's attitude about what he believes is a reflection of who he is, as much as this outburst is a reflection of who edneely is, my only thought about it is who would you rather be associated with? well except maybe don't feed the troll anymore....... Art Triggs zemry1 wrote: > WOW!!! I haven't posted on this list in probably a year and now I see why. > That is a totally unwarranted vicious personal attack. > > First thing, I've known Sam on-line for several years and I have never seen > him exhibit any racist behaviour. Being African-American and from the south, > I know racism when I see or hear it. Being a lawyer, I also wouldn't be the > least bit surprised if you weren't placing yourself in a position for a > possible defamation lawsuit. I would definitely think twice before I called > a person a racist over the internet. Seeing as Sam is a professional > musician and teacher, there is no doubt that your words could cause him a > possible loss of income and damage his reputation. Being on the computer > doesn't make you immune from a lawsuit. > > Secondly, Sam is a top notch musician. He has made a living playing trombone > in New York. That is not something that I could do and I strongly suspect > that you could not do it either! Moreover, Sam has willingly taken of his > time to give FREE trombone advice over the internet, on this list and on > other trombone sites. If you take the time to read some of his posts, you > will see that he is a wealth of knowledge regarding the trombone and music > in general. > > Think twice before making such posts! > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu > [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu] On Behalf Of > edneeley@juno.com > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:40 AM > To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU > Subject: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band > > Good Lord! > Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA recording with > him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad attacks, and terrible intonation. > It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY players so he > takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of tune players with crappy sound > and bad time. A racist to boot! > ed > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """ > < some sort of fairly easily traveled radius...say a couple of hundred > miles, max...if anyone wants a clinician, guest artist, etc.>> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Interested in getting caught up on today's news? > Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. > http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm > ?csp=24 > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:18:29 -0500 From: "John Burton" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: "zemry1" , , Message-ID: <2C761FD6AEB2B640BF5524B1DD167C9D0A19FD@centralstorage.johnburton.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since I couldn't say it any better, Zemry1, I agree completely. ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= john burton Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone Kanawha Valley Community Band / Slide-by-Slide South Charleston, West Virginia > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu > [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu] On Behalf Of zemry1 > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:22 AM > To: edneeley@juno.com; TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band > > WOW!!! I haven't posted on this list in probably a year and > now I see why. > That is a totally unwarranted vicious personal attack. > > First thing, I've known Sam on-line for several years and I > have never seen him exhibit any racist behaviour. Being > African-American and from the south, I know racism when I see > or hear it. Being a lawyer, I also wouldn't be the least bit > surprised if you weren't placing yourself in a position for a > possible defamation lawsuit. I would definitely think twice > before I called a person a racist over the internet. Seeing > as Sam is a professional musician and teacher, there is no > doubt that your words could cause him a possible loss of > income and damage his reputation. Being on the computer > doesn't make you immune from a lawsuit. > > Secondly, Sam is a top notch musician. He has made a living > playing trombone in New York. That is not something that I > could do and I strongly suspect that you could not do it > either! Moreover, Sam has willingly taken of his time to give > FREE trombone advice over the internet, on this list and on > other trombone sites. If you take the time to read some of > his posts, you will see that he is a wealth of knowledge > regarding the trombone and music in general. > > Think twice before making such posts! > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu > [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu] On Behalf > Of edneeley@juno.com > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:40 AM > To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU > Subject: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band > > Good Lord! > Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA > recording with him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad > attacks, and terrible intonation. > It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY > players so he takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of > tune players with crappy sound and bad time. A racist to boot! > ed > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """""""""""""" > """ > < dates in some sort of fairly easily traveled radius...say a > couple of hundred miles, max...if anyone wants a clinician, > guest artist, etc.>> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > Interested in getting caught up on today's news? > Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. > http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/ news/front.htm > ?csp=24 > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:42:50 GMT From: "edneeley@juno.com" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20070127.054342.2157.588504@webmail45.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mr. Zem, Just quoting what has already been reported on this forum by Chris and others. His playing speaks for itself. Listen to the ITA recording. ed <<>> ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm?csp=24 ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:00:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jackie Harris-Stone Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Help! A question for everyone. To: Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <432735.51027.qm@web50006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I can't weigh in on what is causing the sharpness. But, I have an idea about how to fix it. Try playing an open position note (f or middle b-flat), and as you're doing it, remove the mouthpiece. Listen to the difference between the notes- chances are, unless you've done this exercise before, the pitch will go up. Now, buzz the same note, and remove your mouthpiece from the lips. Listen again for the change of pitch. Probably, it will go up again. That's an indication of what you are actually TELLING you lips to do. Now, work on reversing it. Free buzz the note. While freebuzzing, place the mouthpiece LIGHTLY on the lips, and try and maintain the same pitch. Once you can do that, buzz the note, and slide the mouthpiece into the receiver. Sometimes, the song sounds golden and clear at this point; at which point you are done. Sometimes, all the muscliing done earlier has created tension, even though your lips are now on the same pitch, and it will sound strangled. If this happens, take a breath, and play the same note again. Part a- horn to free buzz, is diagnostic. (the quick-check version is play, and remove your mouthpiecve from the lips) Part B- freebuzz to horn- is curative. If you can work on it using part B to the point where the pitch of all 3 modes of part A are the same, consistantly. my guess is that the pitch will go down, AND, I bet you''ll be really pleased w/ the change in sound, too. If you already CAN do this, or the pitch is STILL sharp when you can do this and have the pitch remain the same WITHOUT CHEATING by lipping the sound down in the first nanosecond (record yourself if you want to check), it's time to head down to the repair shop and ask them to lenghten your tuning slide, because it's a permanent feature of your playing out of your control. Jackie Harris-Stone Bass Trombone, Orquesta Sinfonica de Monterrey Professor of Trombone, Escuela Superior de Musica y Danza, Professor of Low Brass, UANL --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:09:15 -0600 From: Peter Soukup Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Ed Neeley To: "edneeley@juno.com" , Trombone-L List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Ed, Please post how I can get a recording of your playing. I would like to hear you play. If you're not a player, that's OK, I guess you're entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, Sam is a good player, regardless of your opinion of that particular recording. -- Pete Soukup St. Andrews Brass Grand Avenue Big Band The Moonlighters 95th Street Band The Houndz Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble Jim Guter Big Band (sub) Bristol Renaissance Faire (with Izzo) West Suburban Symphony (alternate) > From: "edneeley@juno.com" > Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:42:50 GMT > To: > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band > > Mr. Zem, > Just quoting what has already been reported on this forum by Chris and others. > His playing speaks for itself. Listen to the ITA recording. > ed > > << him exhibit any racist behaviour. Being African-American and from the south, > I know racism when I see or hear it. Being a lawyer, I also wouldn't be the > least bit surprised if you weren't placing yourself in a position for a > possible defamation lawsuit.>>> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Interested in getting caught up on today's news? > Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. > http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm?c > sp=24 > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 09:36:14 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Troll dues To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thank you gentlemen. Ed? Fuggedaboudit. Forget about him. Like all parasites, diseases and predators, trolls serve a valid purpose. Zemry...no lawsuits forthcoming. Anyone who would fall for spam of that sort is someone for whom I would rather not work. People like Ed just serve to eliminate the less perceptive from the mix. I agree with Ed, actually. On some things. Like that one recording upon which he is apparently fixated. I don't like it either. And it was my fault. I WAY overextended myself that week, trying to be everywhere in Europe simultaneously. So it goes. Have fun, folks. Life is finite for us little creatures crawling around this ball of dust. Don't sweat the small stuff. See ya somewhere... Sam P.S. Check out Dave Liebman's band. Live. My roots lie in free music as much as any other idiom, as do Dave's, and I have been involved in a number of large ensemble attempts of various kinds to free jazz from its fairly rigid formal structure, from the '60s University of the Streets Ensemble with Bill Dixon through the Jazz Composer's Orchestra Association with Mike Mantler and Carla Bley, some of George Gruntz's ensembles both in Europe and the U.S., various Mingus-led ensembles and other bands that played Mingus's music after he died...I was the original music director of the Mingus Big Band and was in the first set of Mingus Epitaph groups...through the VERY out band that Gil Evans led at the NYC club Sweet Basil in the last decade of his life. This one...Dave's band...is by far the most successful attempt to maintain a working balance between freedom and structure that I have ever heard, let alone with which I have ever been involved. Come listen to the future if you get a chance. When the future appears there is usually not much of an audience for it, so it works sporadically at best. Money is ALWAYS an issue. So THAT goes as well. But this band is special. Worth a couple of hours in a car, if you can swing it. Really. I will guarantee that you have never heard anything like it. Freed-up jazz with real bebop roots, played by 18 people who are not faking ANYTHING. Great writing, too. And the RHYTHM SECTION!!! ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:21:38 -0600 From: "Barry Green" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Troll dues To: Message-ID: <002901c7422f$38dfb6b0$6500a8c0@Home> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I know every recording of me doesn't sound great, we all have times when we don't play as well as we'd like. There are many factors that enter into this craft. I'm personally tired of all this negativity. I've got more important things to do with my time than read all this crap. Peace, out, Barry Green Nashville ----- Original Message ----- From: "sabutin" To: Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Troll dues > Thank you gentlemen. > > Ed? > > Fuggedaboudit. > > Forget about him. > > Like all parasites, diseases and predators, trolls serve a valid purpose. > > Zemry...no lawsuits forthcoming. > > Anyone who would fall for spam of that sort is someone for whom I > would rather not work. > > People like Ed just serve to eliminate the less perceptive from the mix. > > I agree with Ed, actually. On some things. > > Like that one recording upon which he is apparently fixated. > > I don't like it either. > > And it was my fault. I WAY overextended myself that week, trying to > be everywhere in Europe simultaneously. > > So it goes. > > Have fun, folks. > > Life is finite for us little creatures crawling around this ball of dust. > > Don't sweat the small stuff. > > See ya somewhere... > > Sam > > P.S. Check out Dave Liebman's band. Live. My roots lie in free music > as much as any other idiom, as do Dave's, and I have been involved in > a number of large ensemble attempts of various kinds to free jazz > from its fairly rigid formal structure, from the '60s University of > the Streets Ensemble with Bill Dixon through the Jazz Composer's > Orchestra Association with Mike Mantler and Carla Bley, some of > George Gruntz's ensembles both in Europe and the U.S., various > Mingus-led ensembles and other bands that played Mingus's music after > he died...I was the original music director of the Mingus Big Band > and was in the first set of Mingus Epitaph groups...through the VERY > out band that Gil Evans led at the NYC club Sweet Basil in the last > decade of his life. > > This one...Dave's band...is by far the most successful attempt to > maintain a working balance between freedom and structure that I have > ever heard, let alone with which I have ever been involved. > > Come listen to the future if you get a chance. When the future > appears there is usually not much of an audience for it, so it works > sporadically at best. Money is ALWAYS an issue. > > So THAT goes as well. > > But this band is special. > > Worth a couple of hours in a car, if you can swing it. > > Really. > > I will guarantee that you have never heard anything like it. > > Freed-up jazz with real bebop roots, played by 18 people who are not > faking ANYTHING. > > Great writing, too. > > And the RHYTHM SECTION!!! > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/653 - Release Date: 1/26/2007 > > ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:55:22 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dave Liebman Band To: Adrian Drover Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Message-ID: <0F43D44D-3BEE-4346-BD37-A932513C1DB2@gt.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Now THAT is funny, Adrian. Just a regular old member here, but I sure would like to see these "attacks" stop. It's what drove people away and killed the old trombone-L. Can't we all just get along? WD By the way... we had Sam here for a clinic, and he did a great job for us. Very personable, too. On Jan 27, 2007, at 6:21 AM, Adrian Drover wrote: > > >> From: edneeley@juno.com >> >> Good Lord! >> Please don't hire this guy as a teacher. Listen to the ITA >> recording with >> him featured. Bad time, bad sound, bad attacks, and terrible >> intonation. >> It seems that the Dave Liebman Band can't afford the good NY >> players so he >> takes Sam. Or, maybe he likes crude, out of tune players with >> crappy sound >> and bad time. A racist to boot! > > > > Hey Sam, Ed really likes your playing. He just doesn't want to > embarrass > you in public by saying so. > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27 ******************************************