Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 Date: Sunday, August 28, 2005 2:29 PM From: trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To: Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Thank the Lord (Daniel Pliskin) 2. RE: Woolworth's (Harry Wootan) 3. Re: Interesting true story, Bei mir bist du schon (Howard Weiner) 4. Re: Thank the Lord (Howard Weiner) 5. Re: Thank the Lord (Adrian Drover) 6. Re: Tuning in the hand slide (Daniel Pliskin) 7. taking a break.... (dslide13@aol.com) 8. Re: Dumb Commercial Music (Daniel Pliskin) 9. Re: taking a break.... (David Johansen) 10. Re: Interesting true story, Bei mir bist du schon (Peter W. Schroth) 11. Re: Woolworth's (Wayne Dyess) 12. (no subject) (Robert Gennarini) 13. Re: (Jazz URL - was no subject) (David Oliver) 14. Re: (Jazz URL - was no subject) (Chris Tune) 15. Re: Re: [Trombone-l] I can't believe... (Chris Tune) 16. Re: Re: Pond's (Cliff Crawford) 17. Re: Tuning in the hand slide (Craig Parmerlee) 18. Re: Tuning in the hand slide (Craig Parmerlee) 19. RE: Tuning in the hand slide (Mikel K. Smith) 20. Re: Tuning in the hand slide (Adrian Drover) 21. Re: Tuning in the hand slide (stevencarr@comcast.net) 22. Re: Tuning in the hand slide (Craig Parmerlee) 23. Re: Tuning in the hand slide (Adrian Drover) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:21:43 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Thank the Lord To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed So are you telling me that weâre about to invade Venezuelan, becauseˇlet me see: They have weapons of mass destruction? Bin Laden is hiding there? Weâre going to liberate the people from President Chavez, throw out those Catholics and create a secular state? DanP ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:21:50 -0500 From: "Harry Wootan" Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] Woolworth's To: Message-ID: <000001c5ab2b$d00a0c30$6401a8c0@WOOTAN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's a replacement jar of HOLLYWOOD EXTRA THEATRICAL COLD CREAM: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7178361707 Only problem is that it's slidden it's last slide. -- Harry -----Original Message----- From: Earl Needham [mailto:needhame1@plateautel.net] Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 2:39 PM To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [Trombone-l] Woolworth's At 02:16 PM 8/23/2005, Dean Hubbard wrote: >Frank and others, >I use a product called, HOLLYWOOD EXTRA THEATRICAL COLD CREAM. I >bought an 8 oz jar 10 years ago and there's still plenty left! I think >it cost $1.99 at Woolworth's. Now the bad news: In my neck of the >woods Woolworth's is out of business. I don't know if the chain exists >in other areas. I hope so. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/9326/ seems to indicate that Woolworth's is completely gone. Sad, indeed. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 19:29:40 +0200 From: Howard Weiner Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Interesting true story, Bei mir bist du schon To: "Bill Dinwiddie" , "List Trombone" Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20050827192545.00a260e0@mail.sampo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed At 11:24 27.08.05 -0500, Bill Dinwiddie wrote: >So Cahn and Chaplin translated the lyrics into English. And then they took >the tune to this new group of girl singers. The Andrews Sisters... But the English translation really kills the rhyme: Bei mir bist du schšn Please let me explšn... er... explain The orginal text works much better: Bei mir bistu sheyn, Bei mir hos tu heyn, Bei mir bistu eyner oyf der velt. Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 19:32:35 +0200 From: Howard Weiner Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Thank the Lord To: "Daniel Pliskin" , TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20050827193102.00a26a20@mail.sampo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed At 17:21 27.08.05 +0000, Daniel Pliskin wrote: >So are you telling me that weâre about to invade Venezuelan, becauseˇlet >me see: > > They have weapons of mass destruction? > > Bin Laden is hiding there? > > Weâre going to liberate the people from President Chavez, throw out > those Catholics and create a secular state? Because they have oil? (But naturally only because we have to keep those trombone slides moving.) Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:46:31 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Thank the Lord To: "Daniel Pliskin" , Message-ID: <005101c5ab2f$5ad861b0$0100a8c0@ADRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original From: "Daniel Pliskin" > So are you telling me that we're about to invade Venezuelan, because.let > me see: They have weapons of mass destruction? > Bin Laden is hiding there? We're going to liberate the people from > President Chavez, throw out those Catholics and create a secular state? Nope. Bush and Blair have just received intelligence reports that Venezuela has recently opened a branch of F.W.Woolworth and are now the only stockists of American made cold cream. An invasion is inevitable to protect the supply of lubricant, now peaking at $500 a barrel, necessary to keep British and American trombonists in business. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:54:19 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >As I understand it the idea of slide tuning is to enable the bell section >to >have a constant conical taper whereas the other type of bell section is >mainly cylindrical until the end of the tuning slide (there's usually some >taper with the tuning slide but the movable slide means it needs to go >cylindrical again at the top). On a double-valve bass trombone that may be the main difference. But I also think that the whole trombone vibrates when you play and that the extra hardware, needed for bell-crook tuning, keeps the bell section from vibrating quite so much. Also, bass players are used to using their valves, to compensate for a slide which weighs a ton, so slide-tuning might not be quite so noticeable as it is with a small-bore trombone. DanP ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:05:07 -0400 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: [Trombone-l] taking a break.... To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <8C77948FE26682F-BE4-30823@FWM-D45.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I can't take any more of the politcal banter on what I used to consider "our" trombone list. It is "your" list until I get brave enough to peruse posts again. If there are any of you list members out there who have reason to contact me personally, please do so through my web site. Have fun irritating each other.... David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:08:32 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dumb Commercial Music To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed They use racy Rolling Stones tunes for Muzak. I think that marketeers have decided that we donât listen to the lyrics. DanP ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:44:03 -0500 From: David Johansen Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] taking a break.... To: "TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu" Message-ID: <4310B473.2030908@i-55.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yeah, me too. I'm sick of it. I'll check back in a month or so... Dave Johansen dslide13@aol.com wrote: > I can't take any more of the politcal banter on what I used to > consider "our" trombone list. It is "your" list until I get brave > enough to peruse posts again. If there are any of you list members > out there who have reason to contact me personally, please do so > through my web site. > > Have fun irritating each other.... > > David Gibson > trombonist/educator > www.jazzbone.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > . > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:05:45 -0400 From: "Peter W. Schroth" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Interesting true story, Bei mir bist du schon To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <4310B989.40009@attglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Is this based on some real trombone player? If so, where can I hear more? http://www.greatjewishmusic.com/Midifiles/Bei%20Mir%20Bis%20Du%20Schoen.MID ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:32:17 -0500 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Woolworth's To: Chris Tune Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu, Earl Needham Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed But did Woolworth's sell stainless steel mouthpieces?????? Spiffy gig bags???? Oh yeah... Ponds Cold Cream!!!!!!!!! I remember. Love it. WD On Aug 27, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Chris Tune wrote: > On average 15 stores were closed each year from 1970 to 1980, funding > the modernisation of around 85 others, and leaving Woolies with over > 1,000 reasonably modern, predominantly freehold stores by the > beginning of the 1980s rather than 1,100 older stores they had in > 1970. > -----snip-----Based upon what I'm seeing at this site, I'm reasonably > certain that tradition minded British shoppers have been able to > obtain Ponds Cold Creme at "Woolies" all along. . .that's my guess. . > . > > Chris >> >> From: "Earl Needham" >> >>> Yes, I noticed a UK web address -- >>> http://www.woolworths.co.uk/ >>> >>> But it appears not to be the same Woolworths "Five and Dime" >>> that we used to know in the 'States. >> >> >> Did you click on the http://museum.woolworths.co.uk/ link? ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:30:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Gennarini Subject: [Trombone-l] (no subject) To: Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20050828033011.11208.qmail@web81605.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 HI , DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE URL THAT WAS POSTED SEVERAL DAYS AGO? THE WEB SITE HAS JAZZ TRANSCRIPTION POSTED FOR DOWNLOAD OF FAMOUS JAZZ SOLOS.I NEGELDED TO BOOKMARK IT THANKS BOB ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:07:47 -0600 From: "David Oliver" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] (Jazz URL - was no subject) To: , "Robert Gennarini" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Are you referring to this post from Wayne? He plays an impossibly high note on side 2. David Oliver Broomfield, CO USA ------------------------ It's been a long while since I sat down and just listened to anything by Urbie... my record player is on the blink, and I don't have any CD's of him. But ain't tha internet a marvelous thing? You'll need RealPlayer for this one, but it's a free download. You owe it to yourself to give a listen (or a re-listen) to Urbie Green today! http://www.engine-studios.com/vpp/Stereo/P/ST_UGreen_PercStars.html --Wayne Dyess ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gennarini" To: Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:30 PM Subject: [Trombone-l] (no subject) > HI , > DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE URL THAT WAS POSTED SEVERAL DAYS AGO? THE WEB > SITE HAS JAZZ TRANSCRIPTION POSTED FOR DOWNLOAD OF FAMOUS JAZZ SOLOS.I > NEGELDED TO BOOKMARK IT > THANKS BOB > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 21:37:57 -0700 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] (Jazz URL - was no subject) To: "David Oliver" , , "Robert Gennarini" Message-ID: <000f01c5ab8a$43c7c7d0$0200a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response I haven't noticed anything which is a TRANSCRIPTION since I sent some emails back and forth with the owner of a very nice jazz trumpet transcription website. For those of you who like jazz improv transcription (I'm one of those. . .I find it helps me understand why the guy did what he did. . .I can compare the jazz lick to the chord progression. . .and so on. . .) I'd recommend this site, even though it is trumpet and not trombone. http://www.jazztrumpetsolos.com/default.htm There really is some nice transcribing work going on out there! Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Oliver" To: ; "Robert Gennarini" Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] (Jazz URL - was no subject) > Are you referring to this post from Wayne? He plays an impossibly high > note on side 2. > > David Oliver > Broomfield, CO USA > > ------------------------ > > It's been a long while since I sat down and just listened to anything > by Urbie... my record player is on the blink, and I don't have any CD's > of him. > > But ain't tha internet a marvelous thing? You'll need RealPlayer for > this one, but it's a free download. You owe it to yourself to give a > listen (or a re-listen) to Urbie Green today! > > http://www.engine-studios.com/vpp/Stereo/P/ST_UGreen_PercStars.html > > > --Wayne Dyess > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Gennarini" > To: > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:30 PM > Subject: [Trombone-l] (no subject) > > >> HI , >> DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE URL THAT WAS POSTED SEVERAL DAYS AGO? THE WEB >> SITE HAS JAZZ TRANSCRIPTION POSTED FOR DOWNLOAD OF FAMOUS JAZZ SOLOS.I >> NEGELDED TO BOOKMARK IT >> THANKS BOB >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:13:05 -0700 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: Re: [Trombone-l] I can't believe... To: , Message-ID: <002b01c5ab8f$2c228520$0200a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I think this is one of the more profound potential topics made lately. I've found the same thing. You wouldn't think it. . .but people respond largely to very basic things. . . .LOUD and SOFT. . . .hitting on accented stuff. . .obvious rips and glisses. . .a clever lick or two. . .in short potentially TAILGATE type styling. . .I've found that latin soloing allows you to noodle very loudly over primarily modal backing. . .this, too, gets good audience response. . .(I DO LISTEN for the applause. . .the more the better. . .) They just don't seem to be able to take the whole in and digest it unless they are buying a Miles album, or maybe a Chet Baker album. I'd posit that a lot of marketing went into establishing these jazz artists so their music became household standard stuff (kinda. . .). Material of this complexity is simply not accepted without much explanation and support. . .that is one seriously missing component of the current record labels (at least majors. . ). The promo departments don't work on anything other than the styles that they think are "shoe-in" styles . . Rock, Metal, Rap, Hip-Hop. JIM PANKOW: Pankow is certainly the most well known bone player of the last thirty years or so. Before that I'd say it was either Buddy Morrow with his big hit of Night Train, or maybe Sy Zentner with his dance hit of "Up a Lazy River" and others around the same time. That doesn't mean these are the only hugely successful players. . .Bob Edmundson with the Tijuana Brass is a HUGELY SUCCESSFUL commercial musician. . .he made a great deal of income from his work with them and was therefore able to afford a very comfortable life. He also did some very nice serious stuff such as his sets in the section with the Terry Gibbs Dream Band (no huge $$ from this, tho'. . .some. . .more modest amounts. . .). He undoubtedly still receives substantial residual income from this work (I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics of what is subject to "residual" and what is not. . so I'm guessing). I think, personally, that there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with Tijuana Brass type phenomena. . . it is just a type of sound reasserting itself in the face of other trends which have disadvantages (e.g. electric guitars and organs lack some of the human attributes of wind instruments. . .) Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Trombone-l] I can't believe... > David, > > I agree, we shouldn't all sound the same; sort of the Stepford Trombones > kinda' thinking. > > In my humble onion, the most successful trombonist amongst the > non-musicians has been Jim Pankow of Chicago. It's a sound that > non-musicians recognize and patronize by purchasing albums and going to > concerts. > > For the past 8+ years I have been performing at Disneyland, I have found > that the audience responds with greater enthusiasm to improvisation that > leans more to the "tailgate" end of the spectrum than the "cool be-bop" > sounds. And I am not referring to my be-bop playing, but from some very > accomplished and very fine trombonists that I have had the honor to > perform with. > > I think that possibly the problem lies in the "Fast Food" quality of music > appreciation in our culture. Don't have an answer, and I may not > understand the problem even, but I want to make a difference. > > Richard > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:03:18 -0700 From: "Cliff Crawford" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Re: Pond's To: "Tom Izzo" , Cc: Trombone List Message-ID: <078901c5ab96$303438a0$6c657d41@D1YWXM31> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original The cold cream in the Ponds bottle with the lime green cap works fine...lasts longer than Superslick and just as fast. Cliff C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Izzo" To: Cc: "Trombone List" Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Re: Pond's > > Hi Richard, > > --- richard.bartkus@cox.net wrote: > >> I understand that they changed the formula for >> Pond's and that you can't really get the original >> stuff anymore. > > Yes you can. There were plenty of squawks. I later > found out the original formula was never discontued. > Most stores did not want to stock 2700 varieties of > each brand [sort of like a Walmart only shelving Reg > Coke & Diet Coke, but not the Diet Lemon Coke, Diet > Lime Coke, Diet Vanilla Coke, Diet Cherry Coke, etc, > tho some smaller outfits & grocery stores still > carried a large assortment a flavors, but not as many > cases of each]. > > There are about 9 "versions" of Ponds on shelves in > stores around here. I have always used & still > continue to use Ponds on all of my (slide) Trombones. > I just purchase the jar marked "Original". > > Each jar seems to last 10 times longer at 1/100th > price of the so-called "Trombone" creams. > > Your mileage may vary. > > Tom > (a very happy Ponds user) > > > Tom Izzo > Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; > Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; > Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; > Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, > Electric Bass, Timpani & Percussion. > http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ > (630) 858-7832 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 07:02:32 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: Earl Needham Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <4311A7D8.6050603@acticalc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Earl Needham wrote: > > I'd like to see some discussion on the pros and cons of tuning > in the hand slide versus tuning at the end of the bell behind your > shoulder... The important thing to remember about T-I-S is that there are no benefits as far as the slide is concerned, unless somebody thinks the extra mass in the oversleeve area is beneficial. The real benefits come in the bell section, mainly by eliminating mass and bracing, allowing the horn to respond more quickly and vibrantly. Most of the new T-I-S projects (Kanstul, Greenhoe, Rath) have been on bass trombones. Kanstul had a prototype of a 500 bore T-I-S instrument, but I haven't heard anything about that one recently. Anybody have any news about that? ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 07:15:22 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <4311AADA.6070705@acticalc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Chris Tune wrote: > It's true the purpose of "tuning in the slide" is to smooth out the > flow of conical section tubing in the bell. That's not the only purpose. Every T-I-S horn I've seen has reduced bracing. And there is reduced mass where it is unnecessary to double the tubing to make tuning slide legs. I don't know that anybody has ever studied this scientifically to determine whether the continuous taper is more important than the mass factors. My intuition says that the reduced mass/reduced bracing is more important than the continuous taper. After all, all trombones are "almost" continuous taper through the bell section. I have experienced a significant increase in vibrancy on a bass trombone by reducing the bracing. That seems like the same sort of feeling I get from the Kanstul bass done in T-I-S. At the end of the day, it is a holistic thing. The entirety of the design has to work together. The higher mass slide, lower mass bell section, and continuous taper are all parts of the package. ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:25:30 -0400 From: "Mikel K. Smith" Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I don't know if it's "more important", but it does make a significant difference. Several years ago I bought an old valve trombone on eBay - mostly because it was cheap and the compact wrap of the 'slide' section was interesting. Note that a valve bone has tuning 'in the slide', so to speak... not at the bell crook, so the comparison is valid. Anyways, when it arrived, the single bell brace was broken at the solder joint joining it to the bell side, so there was no vibration dampening all the way from where it joined the valve section, all the way to the end of the bell. It had a beautiful, resonate sound. After I had it fixed, it sounded like, well, a valve trombone. FWIW, the only brand name marking on it was "Chieftan", which I assume was a rebranded eastern European model. Appeared to date from the '50's. MIkel -----Original Message----- From: Craig Parmerlee [mailto:craig@acticalc.com] ... My intuition says that the reduced mass/reduced bracing is more important than the continuous taper. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:24:03 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: "Mikel K. Smith" , Message-ID: <007b01c5abe4$8bfe5000$0100a8c0@ADRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original From: "Mikel K. Smith" > Note that a valve bone has tuning 'in the slide', so to > speak... not at the bell crook, ??? My Holton/Martin has both neck and valve tuning. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:02:19 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: Message-ID: <006701c5abe9$df5d98f0$e4e22444@hsd1.nj.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" While at the ITF in Ithaca, I had a conversation with the craftsmen at Rath that spins all of their bells. (can't recall his name, unfortunately) He indicated, that from the research they did creating their TIS bass, that the heavier slide is definitely part of the equation. Also, I got to play my Conn 32h last night. A horn design to play like a TIS horn without the TIS. In addition to whatever else was done to achieve that goal, it has a heavy slide and a light bell. I also play it without the counterweight. Which leads to . . . It seems that a lot of the tinkering we do with our horns has to do with adding or removing weight in different parts of the horn. Counterweight, heavy valve caps, "the brace', heavy weight mouthpiece, removing braces from the bell section are all variations of changing the weight of the horn in different locations. Steve Carr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide > Chris Tune wrote: > > > It's true the purpose of "tuning in the slide" is to smooth out the > > flow of conical section tubing in the bell. > > That's not the only purpose. Every T-I-S horn I've seen has reduced > bracing. And there is reduced mass where it is unnecessary to double > the tubing to make tuning slide legs. > > I don't know that anybody has ever studied this scientifically to > determine whether the continuous taper is more important than the mass > factors. My intuition says that the reduced mass/reduced bracing is > more important than the continuous taper. After all, all trombones are > "almost" continuous taper through the bell section. I have experienced > a significant increase in vibrancy on a bass trombone by reducing the > bracing. That seems like the same sort of feeling I get from the > Kanstul bass done in T-I-S. > > At the end of the day, it is a holistic thing. The entirety of the > design has to work together. The higher mass slide, lower mass bell > section, and continuous taper are all parts of the package. > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:17:27 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: Adrian Drover Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <4311E397.70806@acticalc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Then I don't want to hear you complaining about this instrument being out of tune. :) Adrian Drover wrote: > > ??? My Holton/Martin has both neck and valve tuning. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:41:05 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Tuning in the hand slide To: "Craig Parmerlee" Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <00a001c5abef$68942580$0100a8c0@ADRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response From: "Craig Parmerlee" > >>My Holton/Martin has both neck and valve tuning. > > Then I don't want to hear you complaining about this instrument being out > of tune. :) Now that's not fair! Most valve combinations are bound to be out of tune, and no trigger tuning on my Martin valve section. Oh well, that just leaves lip tuning then. So that's why trombones have slides. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 *****************************************