Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 13 Date: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 13 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com) 2. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com) 3. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Roger Carmichael) 4. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (JFBermann@aol.com) 5. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Jason Smith) 6. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Phil Brink) 7. GOOD music on the web (John Burton) 8. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Stephen Troy) 9. Re: GOOD music on the web (George Carr) 10. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Michael Shoshani) 11. harmonics (David Chamberlain) 12. Re: Mahler 5 revisions (Randy Campora) 13. Re: GOOD music on the web (Adrian Drover) 14. Re: WBEZ drops music (Bill Dinwiddie) 15. Re: Question (Jason Smith) 16. Re: Question (dslide13@aol.com) 17. THE STATE OF MUSIC EDUCATION (Bill Dinwiddie) 18. Re: Mahler 5 revisions (Roger Hecht) 19. Re: GOOD music on the web (Daniel Pliskin) 20. Re: GOOD music on the web (Bill Dinwiddie) 21. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Todd Jonz) 22. Re: GOOD music on the web (Daniel Pliskin) 23. Re: THE STATE OF MUSIC EDUCATION (Raymond Horton) 24. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Wayne Dyess) 25. Re: Mahler 5 revisions (David Johansen) 26. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (David Oliver) 27. Re: Question (Howard Weiner) 28. Re: GOOD music on the web (John Burton) 29. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (Earl Needham) 30. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (dslide13@aol.com) 31. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (dslide13@aol.com) 32. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (edneeley@juno.com) 33. Re: GOOD music on the web (George Carr) 34. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (George Carr) 35. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (George Carr) 36. Why Do We Bother (Samuel Jay Keyser) 37. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (dslide13@aol.com) 38. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (dslide13@aol.com) 39. Re: Why Do We Bother (Jason Smith) 40. Re: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC (richard.bartkus@cox.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:37:22 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: billdin@comcast.net, TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <2af.1faae92.316e94d2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" WBAA Purdue has been in music both jazz, classical and pop since I can remember. I think that they were started in 1929. Hope they do not get the same Idea... If WBEZ does two stations of this then they will be in the fog of talk radio which probably has done a lot to kill radio for many listeners. beldon wade ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:55:44 EDT From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: billdin@comcast.net, TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <341.24d013b.316e9920@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" WBBM dissappeared from my listening venue looooooooooonnnngggg ago. They dropped jazz then and I didn't hear the station until the 9/11 debacle. beldon wade ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:59:39 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Roger Carmichael Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: Fred Hudson , david@trombone.org, billdin@comcast.net, TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <13496534.1144864779745.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For those of us with classical music tastes that travel I-40 everyday, WDAV is my station headed East until I get close to Greensboro where the signal gets rather weak, then I switch to WCPE. In the afternoons, it works in reverse. Both of these stations are classical for the most part. I agree, there is some NPR blather on WDAV but none on WCPE, as WCPE is solely listener sponsored. Both can be accessed via the Internet for all day, all night listening. Roger -----Original Message----- >From: Fred Hudson >Sent: Apr 12, 2006 12:04 PM >To: david@trombone.org, billdin@comcast.net, TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu >Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Untitled" > > >> I lived in San Diego in the early 70s, and listened to a station that >broadcast jazz in the morning and classical music afternoons and evenings. >Then they went to all classical. (It was KFSD. I wouldn't be surprised if >it's a talk station now.) Anyway, I called the station to ask about it and >was told that the audience for jazz was smaller than the audience for >classical music, and new owners insisted that they choose one format or the >other. > >This Unfortunate trend began in the late 80's when I lived in the DC area. >WGMS, a commercial all music station dropped jazz to become all "pure" >classical. Then they started carrying the Redskins games. I guess "Hail to >the Redskins" is a classic in some peoples minds! > >> Now I'm living in North Carolina. When I first moved here, the NPR station >in Chapel Hill had long abandoned music. The one in Winston Salem used to >bill itself as "your NPR and classical music station". The only trouble was >that it rarely played any classical music during any of the times I turned >it on. I did catch a lot of folk music and other stuff that didn't sound >very classical. Now it bills itself as "your NPR and Triad arts station". >That one's WFDD, which I guess means We're Forever Dumbing Down. > >I don't know what part of NC you live in but if you are within range of WDAV >89.9 at Davidson College (my Alma Mater - crass commercial message) I am >sure they still play a lot of classical music - don't know for sure about >jazz - but they do carry a lot of NPR blather. > > >> There is a non-profit, non-commericial classical station in the Triangle >area, WCPE, which broadcasts over the internet in five streaming formats. >(go to theclassicalstation.org if you're interested). I don't know what >jazzers can find along the same, but it seems that the national management >of NPR has been systematically trying to get rid of music for years now. > >I now live in South Arkansas where I pick up the NPR station in Shreveport, >LA which has a nice mix of classical and jazz. Only problem is poor >reception so I have to get it in streaming format over the internet. I have >XM radio in my car and recently added a home receiver. Three classical >formats and three jazz formats. Looks like NPR is forcing us to pay for our >excellent taste in music. > > >> Speaking of WCPE, the FCC was sqeezing and pressuring it for years, >apparently because it is not any part of a large conglomerate, requiring it >to do things at considerable expense that no other area radio station had to >do. Jesse Helms, of all people, came to the rescue. > >Actually Jesse was a Television News Editorialist before he went into >politics. Defense of the media would be up his alley. > >Fred H > > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:04:03 EDT From: JFBermann@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: billdin@comcast.net, TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <1f5.1e0c9120.316e9b13@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bill, Although commercial, don't forget WFMT who In my estimation put classical music on the radio on the map. Jim Bermann ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:38:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Smith Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: JFBermann@aol.com, bone list Message-ID: <20060412183820.74246.qmail@web35007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Let me chime in the this subject. Starting soon(i dont have all info yet. KNCT 91.3 in Texas will be doing a Sunday afternoon show of Military style Band Music (i.e. The United States Marine Band). This is something we are excited about in that it will be streamed over the internet. My question is that with the digital global network age we are in is the radio we now know going to change forever? --- JFBermann@aol.com wrote: > Bill, > Although commercial, don't forget WFMT who In my > estimation put classical music on the radio on the > map. > > Jim Bermann > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:39:30 -0500 From: "Phil Brink" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: "Mearl Danner" , "Trombone-L List" Message-ID: <001601c65e60$6fa39260$6501a8c0@bigbox> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Web feeds are becoming very common. I essentially live on WFMT in Chicago, but occasionally I listen on the computer to WILL-FM from Urbana or even KING-FM from Seattle on the web... used to live in Seattle! Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mearl Danner" To: "Trombone-L List" Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC > That is a shame. > > I lived in Dallas for a number of years and KERA radio went to a > largely talk format quite a while ago. I believe partially because the > city-owned station WRR ( http://www.wrr101.com/ ) is a pretty good > classical station. > > If you don't have another classical station in Chicago WRR has a web > feed. They used to broadcast Dallas city council meetings (used to be > pretty entertaining) on Wednesday afternoon, but I can't find them on > the current program. http://www.wrr101.com/programs.shtml Maybe one of > the Dallas guys can chip in on that. > > Unfortunately no jazz ;o( > > Mearl > >>>> "Bill Dinwiddie" 4/11/2006 9:49:34 PM >>> > Sorry this post isn't a little neater, but I wanted to get it out right > > away. I think it is very important, even if you don't live in the > Chicago > area. Your PBS station could be the next one to get this "bright > idea". > > Bill Dinwiddie > billdin@comcast.net > > > >>> Subject: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC >>> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 22:55:29 +0000 >>>> Hello Music Colleagues, >>>> >>>> WBEZ Chicago Public Radio announced earlier this week that they > are >>>> planning >>>> to phase out jazz and all music programming by the end of this > year. >>>> They were planning to launch a second frequency for music, and > have >>>> one talk and one music station. Those plans have been scratched > in >>>> favor of two talk stations. >>>> >>>> Chris Heim has been let go and the Music Director position has > been >>>> eliminated. In the meantime, three full-time jazz hosts, and a > couple >>>> part-time specialty music hosts remain employed. Please continue > to >>>> send >>>> your releases because we are still not 100% sure that this plan is >>>> written >>>> in stone. More importantly, we still need to program the most >>>> creative and >>>> compelling music programs possible, and have been encouraged by >>>> administration to do just that. So, now more than ever, we need > and >>>> greatly >>>> appreciate your support. > > > >>>> FROM THE CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: >>>> All that jazz gives way to all public affairs >>>> April 6, 2006 >>>> BY LESLIE BALDACCI Staff Reporter >>>> >>>> Chicago public radio station WBEZ-FM (91.5) is eliminating music >>>> programming >>>> next year when its signal strength increases nearly tenfold and it >>>> switches >>>> to an all-public affairs format, the station's staff was told >>>> Wednesday. >>>> >>>> Gone will be the jazz programs that now run Monday through > Thursday >>>> from 8 >>>> p.m. to 4 a.m., Friday night's world music lineup and Sunday >>>> afternoon's >>>> jazz programming. >>>> >>>> As first reported by Sun-Times media columnist Rob Feder, Chicago >>>> Public >>>> Radio has been planning to broadcast two full-time programming >>>> services on >>>> separate frequencies. The move became possible with the > acquisition >>>> of >>>> WBEW-FM (91.5) in Chesterton, Ind., and WBEQ-FM (90.7) in > southwest >>>> suburban >>>> Morris. >>>> >>>> The station had considered moving music to the second station, but >>>> they are >>>> taking the riskier step of doing public affairs on those two >>>> stations as >>>> well, said Daniel Ash, the station's vice president of strategic >>>> communication. >>>> >>>> "The WBEW and WBEQ signals will be rooted in public affairs, with > the >>>> sensibility of attracting a more diverse and a bit younger >>>> audience," Ash >>>> said. >>>> >>>> He said WBEZ's music programs, about a third of the station's >>>> schedule, have >>>> "a small but loyal audience." >>>> >>>> About two-thirds of the station's schedule already is news, talk, >>>> arts, >>>> culture and National Public Radio programs. >>>> >>>> In coming weeks, the station will form creative teams to address > new >>>> programming, Ash said. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:43:06 -0400 From: "John Burton" Subject: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: "Trombone-L List" Message-ID: <2C761FD6AEB2B640BF5524B1DD167C9DC6D1@centralstorage.johnburton.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd like to find a big-band station on the web. West Virginia Public Radio does a fairly decent job of covering classics, from really fine to somewhat esoteric (harp hymns on the box just now). What would make my day jump would be a big-band "channel" since there isn't such a "frequency" in Charleston, WV. Anyone have a pointer??? ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= john burton Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra South Charleston, West Virginia ________________________________ From: trombone-l-bounces@maillists.samford.edu on behalf of Phil Brink Sent: Wed 4/12/2006 2:39 PM To: Mearl Danner; Trombone-L List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC Web feeds are becoming very common. I essentially live on WFMT in Chicago, but occasionally I listen on the computer to WILL-FM from Urbana or even KING-FM from Seattle on the web... used to live in Seattle! Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mearl Danner" To: "Trombone-L List" Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC > That is a shame. > > I lived in Dallas for a number of years and KERA radio went to a > largely talk format quite a while ago. I believe partially because the > city-owned station WRR ( http://www.wrr101.com/ ) is a pretty good > classical station. > > If you don't have another classical station in Chicago WRR has a web > feed. They used to broadcast Dallas city council meetings (used to be > pretty entertaining) on Wednesday afternoon, but I can't find them on > the current program. http://www.wrr101.com/programs.shtml Maybe one of > the Dallas guys can chip in on that. > > Unfortunately no jazz ;o( > > Mearl > >>>> "Bill Dinwiddie" 4/11/2006 9:49:34 PM >>> > Sorry this post isn't a little neater, but I wanted to get it out right > > away. I think it is very important, even if you don't live in the > Chicago > area. Your PBS station could be the next one to get this "bright > idea". > > Bill Dinwiddie > billdin@comcast.net > > > >>> Subject: WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC >>> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 22:55:29 +0000 >>>> Hello Music Colleagues, >>>> >>>> WBEZ Chicago Public Radio announced earlier this week that they > are >>>> planning >>>> to phase out jazz and all music programming by the end of this > year. >>>> They were planning to launch a second frequency for music, and > have >>>> one talk and one music station. Those plans have been scratched > in >>>> favor of two talk stations. >>>> >>>> Chris Heim has been let go and the Music Director position has > been >>>> eliminated. In the meantime, three full-time jazz hosts, and a > couple >>>> part-time specialty music hosts remain employed. Please continue > to >>>> send >>>> your releases because we are still not 100% sure that this plan is >>>> written >>>> in stone. More importantly, we still need to program the most >>>> creative and >>>> compelling music programs possible, and have been encouraged by >>>> administration to do just that. So, now more than ever, we need > and >>>> greatly >>>> appreciate your support. > > > >>>> FROM THE CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: >>>> All that jazz gives way to all public affairs >>>> April 6, 2006 >>>> BY LESLIE BALDACCI Staff Reporter >>>> >>>> Chicago public radio station WBEZ-FM (91.5) is eliminating music >>>> programming >>>> next year when its signal strength increases nearly tenfold and it >>>> switches >>>> to an all-public affairs format, the station's staff was told >>>> Wednesday. >>>> >>>> Gone will be the jazz programs that now run Monday through > Thursday >>>> from 8 >>>> p.m. to 4 a.m., Friday night's world music lineup and Sunday >>>> afternoon's >>>> jazz programming. >>>> >>>> As first reported by Sun-Times media columnist Rob Feder, Chicago >>>> Public >>>> Radio has been planning to broadcast two full-time programming >>>> services on >>>> separate frequencies. The move became possible with the > acquisition >>>> of >>>> WBEW-FM (91.5) in Chesterton, Ind., and WBEQ-FM (90.7) in > southwest >>>> suburban >>>> Morris. >>>> >>>> The station had considered moving music to the second station, but >>>> they are >>>> taking the riskier step of doing public affairs on those two >>>> stations as >>>> well, said Daniel Ash, the station's vice president of strategic >>>> communication. >>>> >>>> "The WBEW and WBEQ signals will be rooted in public affairs, with > the >>>> sensibility of attracting a more diverse and a bit younger >>>> audience," Ash >>>> said. >>>> >>>> He said WBEZ's music programs, about a third of the station's >>>> schedule, have >>>> "a small but loyal audience." >>>> >>>> About two-thirds of the station's schedule already is news, talk, >>>> arts, >>>> culture and National Public Radio programs. >>>> >>>> In coming weeks, the station will form creative teams to address > new >>>> programming, Ash said. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:46:31 -0400 From: Stephen Troy Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: "Trombone List" Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20060412144631.009ada70@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:27 AM 04/12/2006 -0400, Charles De Paolo wrote: >I am always saddened when I hear of this happening. But I do not fault the stations. They are responding to a changing market for audio entertainment. I remember years ago when WFLN, a private classical station in Philadelphia, closed. It was clear who their market was, owing to the abundance of ads for BMWs, Mediterranean cruises and financial firms. That market segment was no longer interested in their fare, and none other was available to take their place, so WFLN went bye-bye. Well, yes and no. At the end of its run, WFLN had changed owners who thought they had a better way of doing things - like only playing one movement of a symphony as the audience "didn't want to listen to a long piece of music." They seriously misjudged their audience. Then the owners had the brilliant idea to change formats to improve ratings (and increase ad dollars). WFLN had very loyal advertisers (I know one personally who had great ad response) and as a result was a profitable station. But since dropping classical, the station has gone through numerous format changes and none of them have generated the ratings that classical did! Serves the bastards right... Now the WFLN announcers are at Temple's NPR station, WRTI, and the listener support/donations have been quite high - they now have a brand-new broadcast studio and are transmitting both classical AND jazz 24-hours a day in HD radio. The market segment is indeed still interested in their fare. Steve Troy ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:48:40 -0400 From: "George Carr" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: "John Burton" Cc: Trombone-L List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 4/12/06, John Burton wrote: > I'd like to find a big-band station on the web. Try these: http://www.current.org/stream/#jazz http://www.bigbandjump.com/listen.html George ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:00:11 -0500 From: Michael Shoshani Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <32jq321h83rnqhnnetmf52fp4bihlv93oq@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We've secretly replaced "Bill Dinwiddie" 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >I guess we have been blessed here in Chicago for many years and not really >realized it. We had two great jazz stations (now we will have one). We still >have one excellent classical station. We have one smooth jazz station that >is nice. Now we are going to have two public affairs oriented PBS stations >(with no music at all). For a city of over 6 million people, that is not a >lot of bandwidth! > I haven't seen this entire thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but one jazz-oriented station that comes in very well in the north and west of Chicago is WDCP, an excellent station run by the College of DuPage in the suburb of Glen Ellyn. While other forms of music are heard at night, jazz dominates the daytime broadcasting hours, and it runs the gamut from big band to bebop and everything in between. The last major change in public radio in Chicago was several years ago when Bill and Sonia Florian, who had started classical radio WNIB some five decades previously, sold their station to Clear Channel and retired. CC of course silenced the classical music (curiously, WNIB also had two frequencies) in favor of more contemporary fare. WNIB employees were given a very generous severance bonus based on the longevity of their employment. BTW, the local public radio stations take their programming from a variety of sources. NPR provides news and current affairs, but a lot of the lighter programs are distributed by Public Radio International. And WBEZ had their own syndication service, which not only offers classical music programming (oddly enough) but also locally-produced programs such as "Wait, Wait! Don't Tell Me" and "This American Life". The latter is actuall co-produced with PRI, I believe, and is soon going to be originating from New York. By the way, for those Sunday afternoon listeners to WBEZ: Did you know that in his youth Dick Buckley played trombone? He mentioned it a few times... Michael Shoshani Chicago >I think the shock for many of us came yesterday, when e-mails began to >circulate about the big change to talk radio at WBEZ-FM. I have been >listening to this station almost my entire adult life. I must have assumed >that their programming would never change. I thought that, being a Public >Radio station, they were not beholden to corporate or other monied >interests, and therefore would be able to play great jazz music many hours a >day, essentially forever! Jazz fans were going to be protected by some great >entity in the Federal government who had assumed the mantle of preserving >America's musical heritage and it's only original native music. Dream On >Dinwiddie! Dream On! > >As Chuck De Paolo said, "They are responding to what we (collectively, not >you and I personally) demand as radio consumers. And all you need do is >spin the dial on your boombox to know where that demand lies, and it ain't >Miles or Mahler." Sad, sad, sad. > >Well, now the banner is being carried by a college radio station in the >western suburbs, WDCB, (College of DuPage). Fortunately, I am within its >reception range and they do play fine music. A friend is a DJ there. I will >have to find out what his thoughts are on all this regrettable stuff. > >Bill Dinwiddie >billdin@comcast.net > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:25:35 -0400 From: davidctrombone@webtv.net (David Chamberlain) Subject: [Trombone-l] harmonics To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <12520-443D542F-4548@storefull-3355.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Does anyone out there know about why/how harmonics sound when we play a note? On all my horns a C rings when I play a low F. On one of my horns a pedal B-flat causes both an F and a D to ring. These harmonics sound while I'm playing a note, and the bell continues to ring after I've stopped playing! When playing a slow passage, the notes that don't sound these harmonics have a noticeably duller sound. Have any of you had the same experience? Is it desireble for harmonics to ring? Is a horn or bell "better" if it rings? I'd appreciate it if somebody could shed some light on this. Dave Chamberlain New York, NY ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:28:24 -0400 From: Randy Campora Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Mahler 5 revisions To: David Johansen Cc: "TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu" Message-ID: <443D62E8.2050903@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed The Mahler 5 version that you can get from Kalmus is the earlier version, so they are probably using those parts and have deleted some phrases that the conductor told them to leave out based on Mahler's last version, which I believe nowdays is only available from a rental company. I don't have much of a memory of the differences in the tenor parts, but I recall that there are a couple of things that Mahler took out of the bass trombone part in the revision, such as four eightnotes leading into the loud sycopated accompaniment in the development section of the 1st movement, one muted above the staff thing with the tenors was taken out of the bass part, and in a fast, chromatic low passage some of the middle part of it was taken out so that just the basses are playing it. There may be other differences but those are the ones I remember. I seem to remember that there were less differences in the tenor parts. I usually use the Kalmus part and have brackets around the stuff that is missing in the revised version. I have been known to sneak a passage or two in without getting the conductor's attention... The bar numbers and everything else are all the same. As I recall, Mahler did not add stuff to the trombone parts, just took things out to relieve the scoring a little bit. A lot of folks don't know about the different versions, so it would be a good paper for some trombone person to write talking about the differences in the parts in the two versions. Randy Campora Baltimore David Johansen wrote: >List, > >The Baton Rouge Symphony is teaming up with the remaining member of the >Louisiana Philharmonic Orchestra for a performance of Mahler's 5th >Symphony on Wednesday night. The trombonists from the LPO have certain >measures in their parts deleted based on some kind of a study of >Mahler's original score that doesn't include these parts. Whenever I've >had the opportunity to perform this piece, I've never run into anything >like this. Does anyone out there know anything about these deletions >and how the inclusions came to appear in the parts? Their parts appear >to be from the same publisher as ours and their deletions are simply >penciled out. > >If you're in the area, this might be a performance that would interest >you. All of the woodwind and brass parts are doubled and there are >about 130 orchestra members on stage. We're performing at the River >Center (formerly the Centroplex) in downtown Baton Rouge at 7:30 on >Wednesday the 12th. > >The director has instructed us to follow the LPO's deletions, which is a >little disappointing since a handful of good licks are gone. Any >insights about this would be greatly appreciated. > >Dave Johansen >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:47:54 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: "'George Carr'" , "'John Burton'" Cc: 'Trombone-L List' Message-ID: <005201c65e72$5faa8050$0100a8c0@Adrian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > From: George Carr > > Try these: > http://www.current.org/stream/#jazz > http://www.bigbandjump.com/listen.html Geez, that music's older than me, and I'm past my sell by date, but hey! I like it. A. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:09:24 -0500 From: "Bill Dinwiddie" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ drops music To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <003001c65e75$6052edf0$0a00a8c0@av> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Michael wrote: "I haven't seen this entire thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but one jazz-oriented station that comes in very well in the north and west of Chicago is WDCP, an excellent station run by the College of DuPage in the suburb of Glen Ellyn. While other forms of music are heard at night, jazz dominates the daytime broadcasting hours, and it runs the gamut from big band to bebop and everything in between." Mike, I think if you will read down to the bottom of my post you will see that I did mention the College of DuPage station whose call letters are WDCB, (not P). I agree with you that this is a very valuable station in the Chicago area, especially now that WBEZ has made the extremely bad decision to go to all-talk. I also think it is a pretty poor state of affairs that, in an area as large as Chicago, we have only one station that now broadcasts straight ahead jazz. (I am, at this time, taking the liberty of ignoring WNUA, the "smooth jazz" station in town, as it is adhering to a very strict formula of playing (most of the day) only what I regard as a pretty watered-down version of actual, genuine jazz. At this moment they are playing Sade accompanied by a drum machine.) "By the way, for those Sunday afternoon listeners to WBEZ: Did you know that in his youth Dick Buckley played trombone? He mentioned it a few times..." Well, Buckley was always one of my favorites on WBEZ. He always played the music of the trombone masters, J.J., Carl Fontana, and many others. I can vividly remember seeing Buckley at a Carl Fontana performance, and watching Buck just stand there, shaking his head in disbelief. He KNEW how unbelievable great Carl was, because he actually had dealt firsthand with the instrument that has brought us all to our knees. Bill Dinwiddie billdin@comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:20:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Smith Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Question To: bone list Message-ID: <20060412212024.39313.qmail@web35014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Is your problem with the Musical version itself or the movie version? And if the movie which movie the one that came out recently was horrible and the robert preston wasnt firing squad bad. I'll admit if i had a dollar for every time I heard 76 trombones badly in "barbershop style" i would be a rich man. I think the musical lended some good moments and it seems to be a "crowd pleaser" the times i've performed the overture in a concert band setting. I just would like to hear your praticular hand up on the music man --- Adrian Drover wrote: > > > > From: Wayne Dyess [mailto:TexasTbone@gt.rr.com] > > > > >> The Music Man was shot in that town, I believe. > > > > > > I hope they caught the bastard who did it. > > > > Yep. Strung him up that very day. > > Over at the F attachment tree (figs anyone?) > > > Too good for him. I would have hoped for a firing > squad of at least 76 > trombones, and in case they missed, 110 cornets > close behind. > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:20 -0400 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Question To: jbone72@yahoo.com, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <8C82C8F4B7677D5-418-1D13@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed the joke has obviously been lost on you. it's probably too long to explain. hit the digest and connect the dots. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- From: Jason Smith To: bone list Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Question Is your problem with the Musical version itself or the movie version? And if the movie which movie the one that came out recently was horrible and the robert preston wasnt firing squad bad. I'll admit if i had a dollar for every time I heard 76 trombones badly in "barbershop style" i would be a rich man. I think the musical lended some good moments and it seems to be a "crowd pleaser" the times i've performed the overture in a concert band setting. I just would like to hear your praticular hand up on the music man --- Adrian Drover wrote: > > > > From: Wayne Dyess [mailto:TexasTbone@gt.rr.com] > > > > >> The Music Man was shot in that town, I believe. > > > > > > I hope they caught the bastard who did it. > > > > Yep. Strung him up that very day. > > Over at the F attachment tree (figs anyone?) > > > Too good for him. I would have hoped for a firing > squad of at least 76 > trombones, and in case they missed, 110 cornets > close behind. > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:41:11 -0500 From: "Bill Dinwiddie" Subject: [Trombone-l] THE STATE OF MUSIC EDUCATION To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <000601c65e79$d0df80c0$0a00a8c0@av> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response New thread. A friend e-mailed me the following from the LA Times. I would be interested in hearing comment from our members who are much closer to the eduacational environment than I am. Bill Dinwiddie billdin@comcast.net THE STATE OF MUSIC EDUCATION Players' prospects...with more music school graduates than jobs, what does their future hold? By Chris Pasles, Times Staff Writer "There are now too many musicians in San Francisco, more than enough to fill all the 'jobs.' What we need is work, not musicians. Stay away from San Francisco. You will find it cheaper in the end." ? Notice signed "By order, Board of Directors, Local #6, San Francisco" and posted in the American Musician in 1898. Anyone who supposes that American musicians have a tough time finding jobs compared with their forebears obviously hasn't looked into the matter. The advisory at above shows just how little times have changed. Yet in at least one respect, the situation for musicians at the beginning of the 21st century differs markedly from the one that prevailed a hundred years ago: In those innocent days, there were just a handful of American music schools. USC had opened its music department in 1884, four years after the university was founded, and upgraded it to a college of music only in 1893. The Institute of Musical Art ? precursor of the lofty Juilliard School in New York ? started 12 years later. But even then, USC's music enrollment was a mere 100. Things began to accelerate in 1924, the year that Douglas Fairbanks soared through "The Thief of Bagdad" and George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" premiered. Meeting in Cincinnati, representatives of six American music schools decided they needed to band together to work out problems and curriculum concerns. In short order, the National Assn. of Schools of Music and Allied Arts was formed, with an initial membership of 16 institutions. USC joined in 1925. Within three more years, there were 32 member schools. In three decades, there were more than 200. Today, the figure tops 600. In the 1980-81 season, according to one study, more than 1,100 members of the American Federation of Musicians competed for 47 full-time positions. Now, an estimated 2,700 music performance majors graduate from American centers of higher learning every year. The usual number of jobs available: 160 or fewer. There's always room at the top for the very gifted, of course, in any profession. Even in academia, Yale announced last fall that, beginning in 2006-07, it will join the prestigious Curtis Institute in Philadelphia in providing free tuition to all its advanced music students. But keeping a music school healthy requires something more than the cream of the crop ? it takes a steady stream of hopefuls. As one music school recruiter bluntly put it: "If you want a circus, then you've got to have animals." No easy answer Still, that raises the question: Does he mean a nurturing playland or lambs about to be slaughtered? What are the real prospects for music students today? The answer depends on which side of the academic fence you're standing on. "We have too many outstanding music colleges turning out too many graduates for whom there will be no work in music," says maverick British critic Norman Lebrecht. "It's close to false trading. You take the kids into schools, fire them up with the idea of making careers, knowing from the outset there will not be opportunities for most of them. Very few conservatories are giving students any kind of alternative programs or a sense of the reality ahead for them." Nonsense, counters Derek Mithaug, director of career development at Juilliard. "That's the vocational prism that people use in their evaluation of music colleges," he says. " 'What is the placement rate?' That model is disturbing. The idea behind a college or conservatory training goes way beyond being a performing musician." Juilliard graduates enter many fields, says Mithaug. "Performing is just one of them. Education is another." Others include producing, consulting, directing, journalism, publicity, marketing, advocacy and community outreach. "In these areas, you'll find a wide range of our graduates." Robert Cutietta, dean of USC's Thornton School of Music, agrees. "Our students get a full college education that prepares them for all kinds of things," he says. "So many of them are involved with teaching, playing, recording, almost running a small business ? and they are the business." Cutietta is happy to report that 74% of USC's music alums over the last 10 years earn their primary income from music. "I'm surrounded by people who make a living at music," he says. "It's a very lively profession, especially in a city like Los Angeles." Such issues were more recently brought to the fore in freelance oboist Blair Tindall's book, "Mozart in the Jungle: Sex, Drugs, and Classical Music," which details Tindall's and other musicians' successes and failures in securing livelihoods. But most critics focused only on Tindall's kiss-and-tell adventures, dismissing her analysis of the job situation as sour grapes. "OK, maybe I failed," says Tindall, who attended the Manhattan School of Music. "But what about the 99% of the other grads? We can't all be untalented, undisciplined and without goals. There's just not that much work available." Others argue the opposite. There are jobs available, says Raymond Ou, a former pianist at the Peabody Institute in Baltimore, part of Johns Hopkins University. But they might not be your first choice ? and you have to go where they are. North Carolina was "ripe with possibilities," says Ou, 31. After earning a master's in piano performance at Peabody in 1998, he headed south for three years to teach at a North Carolina private music school and work as a church organist. "With a performance degree from Peabody, doors opened," he says. "But in the end, what made it work was I was willing to do the jobs instead of just aiming for the top. Lots of conservatory graduates aim high, not wanting to do anything they consider beneath them. But the bottleneck is tight at the top." For all that, Ou is now on the other side of the fence. He switched fields, going back to Peabody in 2001 to become director of the residence life program. Although he occasionally performs, he sees his immediate future in administration and recently buttressed his credentials with a second master's, in clinical psychology. Even musicians who make it have complaints. In 1996, J. Richard Hackman and Jutta Allmendinger surveyed members of 78 professional orchestras in the U.S., Britain and Germany, examining their sense of job satisfaction in comparison with 12 other professional groups. For general job satisfaction, orchestra players ranked seventh, right below federal prison guards. They ranked ninth, again just below prison guards, for growth opportunities. (On the other hand, members of string quartets ranked No. 1 in both categories.) This unhappiness squares with a recent report in Britain focusing on orchestral musicians who had quit their jobs because of low pay, lack of opportunities for advancement, the repetitive nature of the repertory and the necessary stifling of individuality to fit into a group. "To be told every day to play a passage in a way you might not agree with ? it's like being told to sing out of tune," former Hall? Orchestra violinist Morris Stemp told the Guardian Unlimited in February. "The notes get played but without your own feeling. And the money is so poor that if you lose your artistic integrity, what have you got?" Soloists are not immune. Naida Cole, a 31-year-old Canadian pianist who won prizes at the Van Cliburn International Competition and recorded two discs for Decca, is abandoning her concert career to study medicine. She feels her life wasn't "balanced" by being on the road all the time, and she missed having more contact with people. "As much as I love music, what I enjoyed most was meeting people afterward, after the concert," she says. "I looked forward to the receptions, where I connected with people and found out if I communicated something. When you go onstage, the audience is 10 feet away, sitting in the dark. You go on alone, leave alone and wonder, 'Did I actually do anything?' " She also felt constrained by what she called the "compromises" required to build a professional career. "You're very restricted in what you can play at a concert. It gets in the way of making the best music you can because you're told you must do this and not do that. It's a struggle." Given this turmoil, some members of the academy are posing alternative ideas about how best to educate their students. "We are not producing too many musicians," says Leon Botstein, a noted conductor and the president of Bard College. "We are producing too many musicians the wrong way, too many in a very old-fashioned, very out-of-date system of professional training. Conservatories are still training people to win the Queen Elisabeth Competition 50 years ago. And to that, nobody's listening." Botstein thinks that every musician should be trained to improvise, "to write his or her own material the way pop musicians do and classical musicians used to do." He also feels they should rethink concerts as "a form of theater that is not reproducible on a recording" and learn to connect more immediately to audiences. Last fall, to supplement these goals, Bard started a mandatory double-degree program requiring all its conservatory students to also earn a bachelor of arts with a major in a field outside music. "We're not doing this because we think there will be no jobs and this will be a safety net," says Robert Martin, Bard's Conservatory of Music director and vice president for academic affairs. "We think it's what musicians should have, what young musicians deserve and need. Our view is that musicians need a broader education." A bigger-picture approach Bard is not alone in offering double degrees. So do such other schools as Peabody, the Oberlin Conservatory in Ohio and the Eastman School of Music in Rochester, N.Y. But only Bard's program is mandatory. Still, it's not always easy to navigate between the two worlds, as Juliette Wells found when she embarked on a dual-degree track at Peabody and its affiliate, Johns Hopkins, studying violin and English. "I was constantly explaining at both ends," she says. "It was a lot harder to explain at the music school than at the college. At the music school, from the beginning, I was asked, 'Why are you doing this other thing? If you were a real musician, really committed, you wouldn't be doing this.' So I found a lot of resistance to even trying to train in both things." A repetitive stress injury ? a result, ironically, of typing too many term papers, not over-practicing ? ended Wells' music career. She's now an English professor at Manhattanville College in New York. "Both careers are really competitive," she says. "But it's harder to win an orchestra position when it comes down to three minutes to make an impression. With academic jobs, you have more of a chance to make an impression." As things stand now, many if not most graduates of even the best conservatories will fail that three-minute test. And they may not find themselves prepared to do anything else. "Some will make it," says Tindall. "Somebody has to make it. But there are so many music conservatories out there, cranking out more people than the market can bear, it's important for people to consider what they're going to do with their training in music when they're out of school." Short of an unlikely explosion in job opportunities, "the tragedy," writes "Music Matters" author George Seltzer, "is that there are so many fully qualified applicants for any orchestral vacancy. "For each outstanding talent that is permitted to be heard in our orchestras, there are probably 99 equally outstanding talents that will fall silent. A terrible waste." ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:53:43 -0400 From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Mahler 5 revisions To: "TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu" Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060412185148.01cf12e8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have no idea what changes are involved, but Mahler in many ways was more conductor than composer. He often revised works to accommodate performances. I believe that in the Boston Symphony library--or somewhere around here--there are scores Mahler worked on (revised) for performances here or in New York. It wouldn't surprise me that someone has either come across revisions here or there or someone has heard about revisions and tried to enter them into scores or some such thing. Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:14:34 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Geez, that music's older than me, and I'm past my sell by date, but hey! I >like it. > Adrian, You've got a point, here. Yes, I suppose appreciation for jazz has waned, over the years, but way back when, pop music and dance music was all considered jazz. As such, lots of people listened to it, people who had no particular taste in music, what so ever. Now that pop music has moved away from jazz, there are very few converts to jazz. Thereās no pier-pressure, getting people to listen to jazz. And jazz listeners have no buying power, to speak of. Itās no wonder that the only jazz, one hears on commercial radio is queasy-listening and jazzy hip-hop. One might ask, in fact I will, if calling such forms of music jazz does more harm than good, in keeping ćrealä jazz (whatever that is) alive. DanP ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:49:49 -0500 From: "Bill Dinwiddie" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <002d01c65e8b$c9645a20$0a00a8c0@av> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Dan P said: "It's no wonder that the only jazz, one hears on commercial radio is queasy-listening and jazzy hip-hop. One might ask, in fact I will, if calling such forms of music jazz does more harm than good, in keeping "real" jazz (whatever that is) alive." ************************************ Unfortunately, I don't think there is any clear cut line here. Today I listened to our local "smooth jazz" station WNUA in Chicago, for a short time. Sometimes I will go to that station when the "real" jazz station(s) is/are into other non-jazz music or talking heads. Sometime WNUA is playing stuff that is pretty nice. Today, I heard Sade with a damn drum machine, and I didn't stay there long. So I guess that some "queasy-listening" jazz is more like real jazz and some is too far away, with only a passing resemblance to the real thing. It's hard to define, but as some Supreme Court justice said about pornography "I'll know it when I see (hear) it!" Can "smooth jazz", by what ever label, help to keep real jazz alive? Yes, I think it can help. Perhaps it can help to keep listeners involved with jazz-like music even if it is not pure. Kind of like Pops music is functioning with classical orchestras. Bill Dinwiddie billdin@comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:58:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Jonz Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: Trombone-L mailing list Message-ID: <20060413015822.31186.qmail@web38906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Vermont Public radio simulcasts throughout the state on five primary transmitters and fills some gaps with a handful of low-power local translaters (most of which seem to be located in more affluent communities, but that's another matter.) VPR's current programming consists mostly of classical music, with talk at the noon hour and during morning and afternoon drive time, and jazz programming in the evenings. VPR is in the process of bringing another network of transmitters online to carry a second broadcast service called "VPR Classical", which plays all classical music all the time. Their stated intention when this build-out is complete is to convert the programming on the existing network of transmitters to all talk. I assume this is the death knell for George Thomas's excellent jazz program. What a shame. I've got Sirius satellite radio in the car, and it looks like I'll soon need to put it in the house, too. Or maybe it's time to invest in one of those cool (but pricey) Sonos systems so that I can listen to Radio OKOM and my other favorite Internet radio stations throughout the house. -- Todd Jonz tjonz42@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:13:35 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>"It's no wonder that the only jazz, one hears on commercial radio is >>queasy-listening and jazzy hip-hop. >Unfortunately, I don't think there is any clear cut line here. TIt's hard >to define, but as some >Supreme Court justice said about pornography "I'll >know it when I see (hear) it!" And, from what I understand, he goes out of his way to find it. Oh, thatās that other Supreme Court justice. DanP ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:05:07 -0400 From: Raymond Horton Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] THE STATE OF MUSIC EDUCATION To: Bill Dinwiddie Cc: List Trombone Message-ID: <443DCDF3.7070207@insightbb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Pretty good article, really. Ray Horton Bass Trb, Louisville Orch. Bill Dinwiddie wrote: >New thread. A friend e-mailed me the following from the LA Times. I would be >interested in hearing comment from our members who are much closer to the >eduacational environment than I am. > >Bill Dinwiddie >billdin@comcast.net > > >THE STATE OF MUSIC EDUCATION >Players' prospects...with more music school graduates than jobs, what does >their future >hold?... > > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:27:53 -0500 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: david@trombone.org Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <523f5579e432ab9851a706bb8bc22510@gt.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Apr 12, 2006, at 8:05 AM, Untitled wrote: > > I used to live in Chicago, and it is sad that WBEZ is abandoning > music. But more than that, it is scandalous what is happening to radio > in this country, and not only NPR. > > It's worse than that. It is the entire MUSIC industry. Perhaps the reason radio is changing formats around the country is simply because music has gone out the window. No offense to any fans out in trombone-L land, but hip-hop and rap do NOT constitute MUSIC to me ears. MUSIC = rhythm, melody, and harmony. No melody; no music. We no longer have a top 40 in this country. When I grew up listeners would tune in to see what the #1 hit was, and it was fun listening to the countdown. I never heard DJ's talking about a top 40 anymore. Music became too diversified. Country stations did well until that music started changing, too. Contemporary country sounds more like rock did in the 60s and 70s. There is nothing for listeners to latch onto anymore. CD sales just MIGHT be down due to poor product rather than due to copyright infringement as NARAS and the industry would lead us to believe. Naturally, they don't want to hear that. Just keep Johnny from copying our stuff. Sic the lawyers on him and his momma if he downloads mp3's. No answers... just a lot of observations. Our local NPR station just changed their programming, too. But thankfully, it makes a little more sense now. They were broadcasting jazz from 7 to 9, followed by classical music through the night. Now, classical programming is primetime, with jazz at 9 pm until 11 pm. Then more classical all night long. Weekends it's blues and different kinds of music that we don't usually hear during the week. I still don't like their "Quiet Hour" which hits when I'm driving home. Early afternoon is a jazz show, followed by the nature sounds of some synthesizer for the dreaded "Quiet Hour". I hate that stuff. For rush hour, I'd prefer some HOT jazz! Or anything with live musicians... WD ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:09:06 -0500 From: David Johansen Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Mahler 5 revisions To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <443DDCF2.4060400@i-55.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Howard Weiner wrote: > > Unfortunately, you don't really supply enough information to allow > even an educated guess as to the source of the changes in the LPO > parts -- and it really is a bit late now for a performance this evening Howard, Thanks for the reply but that really wasn't the point. > Mahler was constantly making revisions to the 5th Symphony, the last > just a few months before his death. By that time there were apparently > three published versions. That was the point. I wasn't looking for the source of the changes but just a little info about the revisions in general, which you gave me and for which I thank you. As it turned out, the deletions (and they were always deletions; nothing was ever added) didn't amount to a hill of beans since one or the other of the trombones covered it or it was covered in the horns. The performance tonight was a real inspiration and a reminder of what we're still going through down here in Southern Louisiana. Thanks for the replies. Dave Johansen ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:58:32 -0600 From: "David Oliver" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: , "Wayne Dyess" Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I was in the San Jose area recently, and the NPR station there seems to be all news darn-it. I never heard any classical or jazz music all 3 days. We are lucky in Denver I guess, as we still have jazz *and* classical station FM stations, both affiliated with NPR (hopefully no one has already mentioned this). I've been donating to the classical one in recent years, but maybe it is time I considered the jazz station as well. I just wish they did more big band jazz, but one can't have it all I guess. I'm still hoping to be able to buy CD's in the future, even if only just on Amazon. They are of the last places that dynamic range and good sampling rates still exists. Even the classical station is compressing the heck out of the signal, though it seems they might have backed off a bit. Pieces like the Bartok "Concert for Orchestra" lose all those wonderful big time dynamics. Years ago, the Chicago classical station (WFMT?) always sounded quiet because of less compression, but that was a good thing. Even simple CD's such as a recent purchase of "Greatest Hits of The Grass Roots" (good brass & trombone stuff - "Temptation Eyes" baby!) are a joy to listen to compared to the alternative. David Oliver Broomfield, CO USA Denver Concert Band Swing Inc., Bass Trombone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Dyess" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC > > On Apr 12, 2006, at 8:05 AM, Untitled wrote: > > > > > I used to live in Chicago, and it is sad that WBEZ is abandoning > > music. But more than that, it is scandalous what is happening to radio > > in this country, and not only NPR. > > > > > > > It's worse than that. It is the entire MUSIC industry. Perhaps the > reason radio is changing formats around the country is simply because > music has gone out the window. No offense to any fans out in > trombone-L land, but hip-hop and rap do NOT constitute MUSIC to me > ears. > > MUSIC = rhythm, melody, and harmony. > > No melody; no music. > > We no longer have a top 40 in this country. When I grew up listeners > would tune in to see what the #1 hit was, and it was fun listening to > the countdown. I never heard DJ's talking about a top 40 anymore. > Music became too diversified. Country stations did well until that > music started changing, too. Contemporary country sounds more like > rock did in the 60s and 70s. > > There is nothing for listeners to latch onto anymore. CD sales just > MIGHT be down due to poor product rather than due to copyright > infringement as NARAS and the industry would lead us to believe. > Naturally, they don't want to hear that. Just keep Johnny from copying > our stuff. Sic the lawyers on him and his momma if he downloads mp3's. > > No answers... just a lot of observations. Our local NPR station just > changed their programming, too. But thankfully, it makes a little more > sense now. They were broadcasting jazz from 7 to 9, followed by > classical music through the night. Now, classical programming is > primetime, with jazz at 9 pm until 11 pm. Then more classical all > night long. Weekends it's blues and different kinds of music that we > don't usually hear during the week. I still don't like their "Quiet > Hour" which hits when I'm driving home. Early afternoon is a jazz > show, followed by the nature sounds of some synthesizer for the dreaded > "Quiet Hour". I hate that stuff. For rush hour, I'd prefer some HOT > jazz! Or anything with live musicians... > > WD > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:39:18 +0200 From: Howard Weiner Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Question To: Jason Smith , bone list Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060413103825.02c3c6d0@privat.toplink.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 14:20 12.04.06 -0700, Jason Smith wrote: >Is your problem with the Musical version itself or the >movie version? And if the movie which movie the one >that came out recently was horrible and the robert >preston wasnt firing squad bad. I'll admit if i had a >dollar for every time I heard 76 trombones badly in >"barbershop style" i would be a rich man. Hey, that's an entirely different musical... "Trombonist on the Roof" or something like that... Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.harpa.com/howard-weiner/ If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:19:07 -0400 From: "John Burton" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: Message-ID: <2C761FD6AEB2B640BF5524B1DD167C9DC6D5@centralstorage.johnburton.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That brings up a terrible point. In my 'day job' I'm the IT director for an accounting firm in Charleston, WV. Over the last several months I've modified the old and somewhat goofy Music On Hold to include big-band sounding cuts, girl-singer sounding cuts and in general a bit more human music than the old and outdated "Musak" stuff with which up we've put for years! (Yes, I've done enough research to be certain I'm not using music that'll require payment other than I've already paid .. this is not a comment on that). I was chatting with one of our partners this morning and they wanted more "Kenny G" type music rather than the big band or girl singer stuff. They feel that that type music attracts and keeps customers "more better"... I guess the mandatory trombone content (MTC) of this comment would be, why do we (as amateur musicians) bother to play forward music that we consider be of a higher quality only to be rebuffed because "no one likes that kind of music any more. Play more >Geez, that music's older than me, and I'm past my sell by date, but hey! I >like it. > Adrian, You've got a point, here. Yes, I suppose appreciation for jazz has waned, over the years, but way back when, pop music and dance music was all considered jazz. As such, lots of people listened to it, people who had no particular taste in music, what so ever. Now that pop music has moved away from jazz, there are very few converts to jazz. There's no pier-pressure, getting people to listen to jazz. And jazz listeners have no buying power, to speak of. It's no wonder that the only jazz, one hears on commercial radio is queasy-listening and jazzy hip-hop. One might ask, in fact I will, if calling such forms of music jazz does more harm than good, in keeping "real" jazz (whatever that is) alive. DanP ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 07:24:36 -0600 From: Earl Needham Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20060413071058.02c72908@email.plateautel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:58 PM 4/12/2006, David Oliver wrote: >I was in the San Jose area recently, and the NPR station there seems to be >all news darn-it. I never heard any classical or jazz music all 3 days. I quit listening to NPR stations some years ago because I didn't like the way they put their "slant" on every new item they could. (If you've been here long you'll know I'm pretty far right-wing.) Today, if I want to hear jazz, I tune in one of the FIVE jazz/blues channels on my XM radio -- "Real Jazz" (currently playing Gigi Gryce "Rat Race Blues"), "Watercolors" (playing Bob James' "Restoration"), "Beyond Jazz" (playing Jammin' "Jazz #42", of which I'm not familiar), "Frank's Place" (playing Johnny Hartman "I Just Dropped By"), or Bluesville" (playing Erskine Hawkins "After Hours"). There are THREE "classical" channels -- "XM Classics" (currently playing Chopin's Etudes op. 25), "VOX!" (playing Kodaly's Benedictus), "XM Pops" (playing Brahms' Hungarian Dance #9). There's also an NPR channel, but I don't really listen to it. And don't forget the 40's channel -- I listen to this one quite a bit. It's got a lot of Big Band music on it. Of course, XM isn't for everybody, but for long-distance driving it's OUTSTANDING. So I guess WBEZ can go for a different market -- they sure seem to be abandoning their long-standing market -- and XM or somebody else can cover it. Doesn't do much good for those who don't have XM, though. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:09:48 -0400 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: tjonz42@yahoo.com, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <8C82D1B0EFBEB37-1508-2139@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed That's terrible news. George Thomas has been a great supporter of jazz, living jazz musicians, and me personally. I hope that they will find a way to include him in their future plans. But, I think a valid point was raised in a previous post. We live in a time of incredible power for the consumer. Free radio is becoming obselete with the advent of cable TV/radio, sattelite radio, webcasts and podcasts. A consumer can find anything they want if they're willing to dig a little past the first page of Google results. That could be a good thing for artists and audiences. Artists gain access to an audience who is looking for their kind of work, and audiences can have access to artists who would never make it to traditional media outlets. My fear is that in our acknowledgement of the global economy, global society, etc...we are actually becoming more selfish than we've ever been. Public radio can't make it because people aren't willing to be exposed to things with which they are unfamiliar. They would rather put on their iPods and enjoy the boundary created between them and the rest of us to listen to THEIR music. They can sit in their home and download almost anything that interests them without having to experience what may interest other people. The technology is celebrated for its ability to remove boundaries but it has now begun to create them...or at least make it easier for some to create them. Technology has allowed us to create our own individual societies. It could be argued that there is no "public" anything any longer. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- From: Todd Jonz To: Trombone-L mailing list Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC Vermont Public radio simulcasts throughout the state on five primary transmitters and fills some gaps with a handful of low-power local translaters (most of which seem to be located in more affluent communities, but that's another matter.) VPR's current programming consists mostly of classical music, with talk at the noon hour and during morning and afternoon drive time, and jazz programming in the evenings. VPR is in the process of bringing another network of transmitters online to carry a second broadcast service called "VPR Classical", which plays all classical music all the time. Their stated intention when this build-out is complete is to convert the programming on the existing network of transmitters to all talk. I assume this is the death knell for George Thomas's excellent jazz program. What a shame. I've got Sirius satellite radio in the car, and it looks like I'll soon need to put it in the house, too. Or maybe it's time to invest in one of those cool (but pricey) Sonos systems so that I can listen to Radio OKOM and my other favorite Internet radio stations throughout the house. -- Todd Jonz tjonz42@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:20:38 -0400 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: TexasTbone@gt.rr.com, david@trombone.org Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <8C82D1C92799F5F-1508-2224@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I hear you, Wayne. But I don't think that commercial hip hop is devoid of melody, harmony and rhythm. I think its real crime is a deficit of good taste. And, it isn't only hip hop....it's most things that appeal to the masses. But, hasn't it always been that way? It's just getting easier and easier for them to get access to the masses. The bar has definitely fallen, but that's because "good taste" is relative to the society that defines it. When I listen to hip hop, I'm not offended by the rapping...or the questionable content of some of the raps. I'm usually offended by a singer who heard one Stevie Wonder recording and dug his use of melisma as an ornament to the melody and decided, "That's really cool.....I'll do that all of the time." So, now instead of actually listening to the melody I can only hear the ornament to the melody performed with sub-par technique. When I listen to the Fugees, I'm not offended. I can appreciate their concept. I recognize an orchestrational sensibility, even though it doesn't come from the same school of thought as mine. I can perceive that someone took time to create the sounds I'm hearing. I can perceive that someone used a discriminating ear to produce their idea without attempting to pander to or manipulate the masses. Good taste is what's really missing, IMHO. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Dyess To: david@trombone.org Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:27:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC On Apr 12, 2006, at 8:05 AM, Untitled wrote: > > I used to live in Chicago, and it is sad that WBEZ is abandoning > music. But more than that, it is scandalous what is happening to radio > in this country, and not only NPR. > > It's worse than that. It is the entire MUSIC industry. Perhaps the reason radio is changing formats around the country is simply because music has gone out the window. No offense to any fans out in trombone-L land, but hip-hop and rap do NOT constitute MUSIC to me ears. MUSIC = rhythm, melody, and harmony. No melody; no music. We no longer have a top 40 in this country. When I grew up listeners would tune in to see what the #1 hit was, and it was fun listening to the countdown. I never heard DJ's talking about a top 40 anymore. Music became too diversified. Country stations did well until that music started changing, too. Contemporary country sounds more like rock did in the 60s and 70s. There is nothing for listeners to latch onto anymore. CD sales just MIGHT be down due to poor product rather than due to copyright infringement as NARAS and the industry would lead us to believe. Naturally, they don't want to hear that. Just keep Johnny from copying our stuff. Sic the lawyers on him and his momma if he downloads mp3's. No answers... just a lot of observations. Our local NPR station just changed their programming, too. But thankfully, it makes a little more sense now. They were broadcasting jazz from 7 to 9, followed by classical music through the night. Now, classical programming is primetime, with jazz at 9 pm until 11 pm. Then more classical all night long. Weekends it's blues and different kinds of music that we don't usually hear during the week. I still don't like their "Quiet Hour" which hits when I'm driving home. Early afternoon is a jazz show, followed by the nature sounds of some synthesizer for the dreaded "Quiet Hour". I hate that stuff. For rush hour, I'd prefer some HOT jazz! Or anything with live musicians... WD _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:54:14 GMT From: "edneeley@juno.com" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: billdin@comcast.net Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060413.045437.747.390@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Seriously, who cares? ed ________________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:47:26 -0400 From: "George Carr" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] GOOD music on the web To: "John Burton" Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > I guess the mandatory trombone content (MTC) of this comment would be, why do we (as amateur musicians) bother to play forward music that we consider be of a higher quality only to be rebuffed because "no one likes that kind of music any more. Play more One might ask, in fact I will, if > calling such forms of music jazz does more harm than good, in keeping "real" > jazz (whatever that is) alive. I think so. Some fractional percentage of the people who get into jazz-influenced music through the Yellowjackets or Spyro Gyra or Kenny G or Sade will eventually find their way to Erroll Garner and Coleman Hawkins and Bill Evans and maybe, through them, to Miles Davis and Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong, and through them, finally, to Albert Mangelsdorff. But seriously, even if we collectively thought that 'smooth jazz' was giving 'jazz' a bad name, there's nothing we could do to change it. And there's noplace to draw the dividing line anyway; Ella Fitzgerald covered Eric Clapton, and Pat Metheny covered Jimi Hendrix, and Joni Mitchell covered Charles Mingus (and everybody covered The Beatles), so it's not like we could come up with some line in the sand that defines 'jazz' anyway. George ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:07:39 -0400 From: "George Carr" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: "dslide13@aol.com" Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu, TexasTbone@gt.rr.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > When I listen to hip hop, I'm not offended by the rapping...or the > questionable content of some of the raps. I'm usually offended by a > singer who heard one Stevie Wonder recording and dug his use of melisma > as an ornament to the melody and decided, "That's really cool.....I'll > do that all of the time." A nice recent article about melisma in pop music ... http://www.newyorker.com/critics/music/?060403crmu_music George ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:12:41 -0400 From: "George Carr" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: "dslide13@aol.com" Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu, tjonz42@yahoo.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > My fear is that in our acknowledgement of the global economy, global > society, etc...we are actually becoming more selfish than we've ever > been. Public radio can't make it because people aren't willing to be > exposed to things with which they are unfamiliar. They would rather > put on their iPods and enjoy the boundary created between them and the > rest of us to listen to THEIR music. I'm not so sure. Touring pop music is making more and more money every year, so people are still coming out in large numbers to hear popular bands. And the ease of music trading goes a long way to CREATING social connections in ways that didn't exist before: meeting people at concerts and filling each others' iPods during intermission can be way more interesting than listening to corporate radio. I just don't get that people are more socially isolated these days, even after a decade or two of the internet. And even assuming this is true ... how bad is it? Sure, there won't be another Beatles, where big chunks of the populace all love the same band. But diversity of opinion and taste has always been a treasured value ... "don't follow the crowd" and all that. What kinds of self-sacrifice or discomfort do you think people are less likely to perform now than they were ten years ago? George ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:21:05 -0400 From: Samuel Jay Keyser Subject: [Trombone-l] Why Do We Bother To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <8DFC4E7F-5E70-4CE3-995C-84F82CAC9313@mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed George Carr wrote: Why do we bother? Because culture is not defined by its lowest common denominator. There will always be folks who don't appreciate complex art (just like there will always be poverty, and hunger, and stupidity) but that doesn't mean that those of us who understand and/or love great art should quit doing what we love. ========================================================== The hard economic fact is that in America (and probably most other places) if you want to be an artist, you have to have a parallel career. That is why so many people on this list have day jobs. The hard psychological fact is that artists want (and need) approval. All other things being equal, then, an artist's dissatisfaction will be inversely proportional to the size of his/her audience. The hard cultural fact is that the simpler the art form, the wider the audience. The funny papers have a wider appeal than, say, Philip Roth's novels. Consequently, an artist whose work is complex has to settle for the emotional cost of that complexity. Hopefully, it will be offset by the emotional profit of being a complex artist. Everything is a balance. What I have gathered from the contributions to this topic is that for many of the contributors, the balance sheet more often than not ends up in the red. If that's so, it's sad. But maybe it's not really so. Let's hope. Jay ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:29:41 -0400 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: georgecarr@gmail.com Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu, TexasTbone@gt.rr.com Message-ID: <8C82D2637ACF8AB-1508-283B@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed thanks. that's beautiful. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- From: George Carr To: dslide13@aol.com Cc: TexasTbone@gt.rr.com; david@trombone.org; TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Sent: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:07:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC > When I listen to hip hop, I'm not offended by the rapping...or the > questionable content of some of the raps. I'm usually offended by a > singer who heard one Stevie Wonder recording and dug his use of melisma > as an ornament to the melody and decided, "That's really cool.....I'll > do that all of the time." A nice recent article about melisma in pop music ... http://www.newyorker.com/critics/music/?060403crmu_music George ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:34:15 -0400 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: georgecarr@gmail.com Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu, tjonz42@yahoo.com Message-ID: <8C82D26DB7CF3B7-1508-2898@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >>And even assuming this is true ... how bad is it? Sure, there won't >>be another Beatles, where big chunks of the populace all love the same >>band. But diversity of opinion and taste has always been a treasured >>value ... "don't follow the crowd" and all that. What kinds of >>self-sacrifice or discomfort do you think people are less likely to >>perform now than they were ten years ago? Holding a door for someone. Saying "good morning". Letting someone else finish a sentence. Showing respect for someone else's informed opinion. Being aware of someone else in their space. Adjusting their behavior to the venue. Perhaps, I'm just in a jaded place. It does seem to be getting worse...and I view our use of the technology to be selfish and infantile much of the time. But, ask me tomorrow and I might answer differently. Those are my thoughts today. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- From: George Carr To: dslide13@aol.com Cc: tjonz42@yahoo.com; trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Sent: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:12:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC > My fear is that in our acknowledgement of the global economy, global > society, etc...we are actually becoming more selfish than we've ever > been. Public radio can't make it because people aren't willing to be > exposed to things with which they are unfamiliar. They would rather > put on their iPods and enjoy the boundary created between them and the > rest of us to listen to THEIR music. I'm not so sure. Touring pop music is making more and more money every year, so people are still coming out in large numbers to hear popular bands. And the ease of music trading goes a long way to CREATING social connections in ways that didn't exist before: meeting people at concerts and filling each others' iPods during intermission can be way more interesting than listening to corporate radio. I just don't get that people are more socially isolated these days, even after a decade or two of the internet. And even assuming this is true ... how bad is it? Sure, there won't be another Beatles, where big chunks of the populace all love the same band. But diversity of opinion and taste has always been a treasured value ... "don't follow the crowd" and all that. What kinds of self-sacrifice or discomfort do you think people are less likely to perform now than they were ten years ago? George ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:36:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Smith Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Why Do We Bother To: bone list Message-ID: <20060413153618.54841.qmail@web35009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Samuel Jay Keyser wrote: > George Carr wrote: > > Why do we bother? Because culture is not defined by > its lowest common > denominator. There will always be folks who don't > appreciate complex > art (just like there will always be poverty, and > hunger, and > stupidity) but that doesn't mean that those of us > who understand > and/or love great art should quit doing what we > love. > > ========================================================== > > The hard economic fact is that in America (and > probably most other > places) if you > want to be an artist, you have to have a parallel > career. That is > why so many people > on this list have day jobs. > > The hard psychological fact is that artists want > (and need) > approval. All other things > being equal, then, an artist's dissatisfaction will > be inversely > proportional to the size > of his/her audience. > > The hard cultural fact is that the simpler the art > form, the wider > the audience. The funny papers have a > wider appeal than, say, Philip Roth's novels. > > Consequently, an artist whose work is complex has to > settle for the > emotional cost of that > complexity. Hopefully, it will be offset by the > emotional profit of > being a complex artist. > > Everything is a balance. > > What I have gathered from the contributions to this > topic is that for > many of the > contributors, the balance sheet more often than not > ends up in the red. > > If that's so, it's sad. But maybe it's not really > so. > > Let's hope. > > Jay > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:50:33 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC To: Message-ID: <20060413145033.FCXG18224.fed1rmmtao06.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Buzzzzzzzzzzz........zzzzzzzzz......zzzzzzzz . . . SWAT ! SPLAT! > > From: "edneeley@juno.com" > Date: 2006/04/13 Thu AM 07:54:14 EDT > To: billdin@comcast.net > CC: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] WBEZ-CHICAGO PLANS TO PHASE OUT MUSIC > > Seriously, who cares? > ed > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! > Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage. > Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 13 ******************************************