Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 8 Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2006 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 8 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Vibrato - yeah or nay (Paul Kemp) 2. Re: Vibrato - yeah or nay (Roger Hecht) 3. Re: New Lindberg Bass (Jim Smith) 4. Re: Vibrato - yeah or nay (Chris Tune) 5. Re: Vibrato - yeah or nay (Wessner, John) 6. Fwd: Re: New Lindberg Bass (Bruce Faske) 7. Re: Vibrato - yeah or nay (Chris Tune) 8. Brass Arts Quintet in Concert at TTU Monday, February 13, 2006 (Joshua Hauser) 9. Re: Vibrato - yeah or nay (George Carr) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:19:09 -0500 From: "Paul Kemp" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay To: Message-ID: <000001c62c12$fd2a0220$0201a8c0@paul25nv60mdvg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George et al, I recently dealt with a situation about this subject, and I polled several long time contributors on the list about use of vibrato. It always comes back to the basic question about how the trombone fits into the musical scheme of things. Basic things, such as whether you're a soloist or not, definitely come into play. I had a lesson with Carl Lenthe a little over a year ago, and he said that the use of vibrato amongst trombone players in the orchestras in Europe was quite common. The idea was that if it's OK for the principal oboe to use vibrato, why not the principal trombone player? When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I firmly believe that the operative word in reference to vibrato is TASTE. When you're acting as a member of a team, then the idea is to match sounds and styles with the principal players. The inner section players shouldn't use it because of the amount of difficulty involved in getting the vibrato to match within sections. If you're a principal player, and you have a solo passage, depending on the style of the work involved, GO FOR IT. If you're a section player, it's better to leave it alone. There are some people out there that believe that playing WITHOUT vibrato is unmusical. There's so much music that can be made with the beauty of the sound, the purity of the intonation, the shape of the line, and the articulation of notes that if you really do those things well, then vibrato may just a bit of spice you might want to add. If you can't do those things well, vibrato isn't going to help much. If you decide to use it, then you need to decide as to whether you want to use lip (jaw) vibrato or slide vibrato, how fast it's going to be, how wide it's going to be, and most importantly, when you're going to use it and when you're not going to use it. There is also something else that comes into play. What happens to a note when vibrato is well executed? It is possible to vibrate on the high side of the pitch, and you will be perceived as playing sharp to the listener. In my discussions, everyone said that vibrato, executed correctly, goes above and below the pitch. In closing, it's always going to be a subjective subject. Constant listening to yourself is the key. Great singers do not use vibrato incessantly. Oh, there are singers that are perceived as being great the use vibrato on ever note, but again, the most important thing is the purity of the sound and intonation, the diction (articulation) and the motion of the musical line. Paul Kemp ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:55:41 -0500 From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay To: "Keith Marr" , "Trombone-L" Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060207125407.01cd2d68@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'll get on it. It'll take a while, but it's an interesting question. One thing I know for sure. None of the players on the Elgar recordings had a Shires. I can start from there. >To me there's two possible explanations for this, and it could be both. >Firstly our ears are attuned to the use of vibrato and notice minute >inaccuracies in intonation more keenly when it's not there. Secondly the >players are so used to employing vibrato that they're not so good at >producing good tone without it. > >As I say it could be both of these factors and others I haven't thought of. >Out of interest can you notice how the trombones sound on these recordings? >Are they playing completely straight notes? > >Keith in Bb/F/D > >----- Original Message ----- > >That said, it's worth listening to a recording of Norrington's Stuttgart >Symphony playing the Elgar First Symphony. The string sound is whitish, >similar to that produced by far too many Period Instrument group recordings >of Handel, etc. I have pretty much a complete set of Elgar's recordings from >1913 or thereabouts and the more famous ones from the late 1920-early 30s. >None sounds like that Norrington recording of the First. Vibrato, gut >strings or whatever, those orchestras produced a much more luminous string >sound that either Norrington got from Stuttgart or PI groups get from their >viols. Draw from this what we may. > >One thing has always bothered me about period recordings. All we have to >describe the sounds made from Handel's time are written words and paintings. >We don't REALLY know what music sounded like then. True, we have some damn >good educated guessing, but we don't KNOW. > > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:44:53 -0600 From: "Jim Smith" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] New Lindberg Bass To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Quoting Matthew Walker : > I'd be very surprised if Christian Lindberg has ever played a bass bone, let > alone "given the nod" to one bell over another. Didn't Tom Klaber have > something to do with putting the CL valves on a Conn bass bone? Didn't > his orch play Benge trombones at that time? Don't believe I said CL ever played a bass trombone. Prototypes were send to his designates, however, and I'm certain he asked/received all the right questions/answers before he was comfortable with the project. It's a small point. Otherwise we don't disagree. Tom Klaber, a trusted advisor on other projects as well, did indeed give input. Jim Smith -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu]On Behalf Of hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:12 AM To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] New Lindberg Bass Quoting Jim Smith : > 2. Christian has changed: In UMI's day his name never appeared on products > unless and until he approved them; he was very careful about doing that. > Perhaps he has come to prefer the standard Conn bell(?). I'd be very surprised if Christian Lindberg has ever played a bass bone, let alone "given the nod" to one bell over another. Didn't Tom Klaber have something to do with putting the CL valves on a Conn bass bone? Didn't his orch play Benge trombones at that time? I agree that the decision to drop the "Benge" bell model is purely marketing/economy of scale related, nothing else. Notice how far those rotors stick out from the neck pipe? Combine that with a narrow Conn slide,and Thayers start to feel REAL comfortable!! Cheers Matthew Walker Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia Walker's Instrument Repair, "The Brassery" ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using MyMail _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:16:41 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay To: "Keith Marr" , "Trombone-L" , "Roger Hecht" Message-ID: <010101c62c2b$cabda580$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Yet more interesting details. . . My belief is that a person listening to a vibratoing instrumentalist, uses an interesting faculty of hearing: "Pitch Averaging". When done sufficiently quickly, the vibrato is averaged by the mind and the hearing equipment and one perceives the AVERAGE pitch performed (not true for slow rates of vib). Thus, if a singer who is habitually flat, like Dinah Shore (sorry. . she was a very nice lady, but she was quite simply flat in pitch) can vibrato wonderfully, and the pitch is still perceived as flat. I definitely like the "When in Rome do as the Romans do. ." philosophy and I also would be concerned about anyone using vibrato so very incessantly that they are unable to perform a straight tone. But, I would guess that this occurance is really much, much rarer than the opposite. The state of things being what they are, particularly in the USA, more performers fall into the category of non-vibratoer. I'd like to remind us, that you can't do a good job on something when you NEVER, EVER practice it. Vibrato is like articulation. . .volume (i.e. dynamics), scale ability, excerpts, solos etc. -- you must practice the actual phenomenon itself, if you wish to be able to perform it convincingly. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Hecht" To: "Keith Marr" ; "Trombone-L" Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay > I'll get on it. It'll take a while, but it's an interesting question. > > One thing I know for sure. None of the players on the Elgar > recordings had a Shires. I can start from there. > > >>To me there's two possible explanations for this, and it could be both. >>Firstly our ears are attuned to the use of vibrato and notice minute >>inaccuracies in intonation more keenly when it's not there. Secondly the >>players are so used to employing vibrato that they're not so good at >>producing good tone without it. >> >>As I say it could be both of these factors and others I haven't thought >>of. >>Out of interest can you notice how the trombones sound on these >>recordings? >>Are they playing completely straight notes? >> >>Keith in Bb/F/D >> >>----- Original Message ----- >> >>That said, it's worth listening to a recording of Norrington's Stuttgart >>Symphony playing the Elgar First Symphony. The string sound is whitish, >>similar to that produced by far too many Period Instrument group >>recordings >>of Handel, etc. I have pretty much a complete set of Elgar's recordings >>from >>1913 or thereabouts and the more famous ones from the late 1920-early 30s. >>None sounds like that Norrington recording of the First. Vibrato, gut >>strings or whatever, those orchestras produced a much more luminous string >>sound that either Norrington got from Stuttgart or PI groups get from >>their >>viols. Draw from this what we may. >> >>One thing has always bothered me about period recordings. All we have to >>describe the sounds made from Handel's time are written words and >>paintings. >>We don't REALLY know what music sounded like then. True, we have some damn >>good educated guessing, but we don't KNOW. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Trombone-l mailing list >>Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > Roger Hecht > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:36:57 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay To: "Roger Hecht" , "Keith Marr" , "Trombone-L" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This doesn't make real sense to me, but I can't be sure it's not true. My father and his two sisters were all cellists. My one aunt was a professional cellist from the time she was about 14 until she died in her 80s or 90s. (Pittsburgh) She would have advanced with the times, but she was born in the the late 1890s. My father eventually played bass in the 20s and 30s and stopped playing in 1939. When I was in my teens and we would meet in Pittsburgh, he would play cello and my aunt would play piano so the three of us could play. Then, and when my daughter took up cello, he always used a vibrato. He must have learned it well from the very beginning, as he was a dance band bass player all during the 30s. At the trombone festival in Maine ~10 years ago, Don Stratton came through with his beautiful shimmering sound. The young people were blown away. I don't care what form you use to get it, a "warm" sound is an important quality. Instruction seems to be stamping that out. I discouraged my daughters' use of vibrato on their stringed instruments until they had a solid sense of pitch. This is because a proper vibrato allows the ear to forgive mild intonation problems. The mind finds the appropriate note in the muddle. I no longer remember much about the nuances of ensemble playing. However, if you see a guy in the middle of the section using vibrato when the rest aren't, here are the possibilities: he's ignorant; he can't find the pitch; the bass is out of tune; the lead is out of tune. Enough pontificating. jw -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu]On Behalf Of Roger Hecht Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:03 AM To: Keith Marr; Trombone-L Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay At 08:41 AM 2/7/2006, Keith Marr wrote: >I feel as though I'm speaking on behalf of Roger Norrington here, because I >don't really know much about it other than what I've quoted from him. >However, I don't think anyone's suggested this was a sudden thing. No >vibrato prior to the 1930s doesn't mean everyone adopted it that week. As >for George's suggestion about recorded music being influential he was saying >it would have changed the way people played by the 1950s. That would mean it >had taken about 30-40 years to influence things. > >I'm sure there was vibrato earlier in jazz and folk music. Norrington was >talking specifically about orchestras. I think Howard's point about the size >of performance spaces is very valid here too. > >Keith in Bb/F/D I'm very late to this thread and know little about trombone vibrato. Norrington has made the claim that string vibrato began in the 1930s. He's not alone, and listening to recordings before that era tends to bear him out. That said, it's worth listening to a recording of Norrington's Stuttgart Symphony playing the Elgar First Symphony. The string sound is whitish, similar to that produced by far too many Period Instrument group recordings of Handel, etc. I have pretty much a complete set of Elgar's recordings from 1913 or thereabouts and the more famous ones from the late 1920-early 30s. None sounds like that Norrington recording of the First. Vibrato, gut strings or whatever, those orchestras produced a much more luminous string sound that either Norrington got from Stuttgart or PI groups get from their viols. Draw from this what we may. One thing has always bothered me about period recordings. All we have to describe the sounds made from Handel's time are written words and paintings. We don't REALLY know what music sounded like then. True, we have some damn good educated guessing, but we don't KNOW. I'm a huge Handel fan and have a ton of these recordings and while some are quite good and listenable, I find it hard to imagine others would have been accepted by Handel and his listeners. All of which is to say that, whatever we know from the written word about instruments, practices, etc., there may be aspects of the playing that we will never know of or about and which may have lended a sound to those instruments that we can't imagine. For what it's worth I hadn't thought much about this until I reviewed that Norrington disc and compared it with Elgar's recordings and many others of that early 20th Century era. Once I heard and appreciated the difference I couldn't help but wonder. Roger Hecht _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:34:22 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Faske Subject: [Trombone-l] Fwd: Re: New Lindberg Bass To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <20060208053422.4529.qmail@web50113.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 If I EVER had a question about ANYTHING related to Bach or Conn trombones in the past 30 plus years, Jim Smith would be one of the gentlemen I would call first. He's too nice a guy to give us his resume, but I do know that he worked for both companies at different points for many, many years before they became one. Also, if Christian Lindberg has his name on a valve, he has a certain amount of rights to it. He's the biggest name in trombone worldwide, and if he was on my artist roster, I would certainly make sure he was on board with the idea before making it happen. > Quoting Matthew Walker : > > > I'd be very surprised if Christian Lindberg has > ever played a bass bone, > let > > alone "given the nod" to one bell over another. > Didn't Tom Klaber have > > something to do with putting the CL valves on a > Conn bass bone? Didn't > > his orch play Benge trombones at that time? > > Don't believe I said CL ever played a bass trombone. > Prototypes were send to > his designates, however, and I'm certain he > asked/received all the right > questions/answers before he was comfortable with the > project. > > It's a small point. Otherwise we don't disagree. > > Tom Klaber, a trusted advisor on other projects as > well, did indeed give > input. > > Jim Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu > [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu]On Behalf Of > hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:12 AM > To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] New Lindberg Bass > > > Quoting Jim Smith : > > > 2. Christian has changed: In UMI's day his name > never appeared on products > > unless and until he approved them; he was very > careful about doing that. > > Perhaps he has come to prefer the standard Conn > bell(?). > > I'd be very surprised if Christian Lindberg has ever > played a bass bone, let > alone "given the nod" to one bell over another. > Didn't Tom Klaber have > something to do with putting the CL valves on a Conn > bass bone? Didn't > his orch > play Benge trombones at that time? > > I agree that the decision to drop the "Benge" bell > model is purely > marketing/economy of scale related, nothing else. > > Notice how far those rotors stick out from the neck > pipe? Combine that with > a > narrow Conn slide,and Thayers start to feel REAL > comfortable!! > > Cheers > Matthew Walker > Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia > Walker's Instrument Repair, "The Brassery" > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using MyMail > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:33:44 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay To: "George Carr" , Message-ID: <002001c62cc5$0c0b89a0$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I've numbered the stuff so we can make sense of it. Much is being "read" into what I say. I really don't have much of an "agenda" other than to make excellent music. Of course there are all kinds of different styles. As I understood the issue raised, a certain kind of vibrato was done on the held note at the end of a big band piece. During my very first post, I mentioned, that, to be sure we would probably need to hear the performance, but we got into a general discussion of big bands and vibrato. Point 1-I still think this is more "flippant", and, essentially poor prose. The writer says "almost constantly", rather than what he means: "at every available opportunity". That prose is clear, concise and CORRECT. Point 2-I feel like you think I don't read so well. . .Of course I understand his point. I don't agree that this is sufficient basis to make ANY ASSUMPTION whatsoever about generalized vibrato practice. We are examining, NOT violin sections, but rather ONLY TWO persons, internationally known violin soloists. This is simply extrapolation without justification. HE DOES NOT MAKE A GOOD CASE. Point 3-The physics can be desribed simply and accurately. I tend to believe the author is simply ignorant of the physics, and is revealing his ignorance in his statements. There is NO PROOF of a NEXUS between Kreisler vibratoing a great deal and WHY it happened, much less anything having to do with recording. Point 4-We are doing the best we can archaeologically. . maybe so, but then that is the nature of digging. . .(heh! a little humor) We want to know so we think about it, then we figure we will look more. I will not accept half cocked BS stuff as scholarship and neither should you! Point 5-Now you don't understand-I don't care a whit for what scholars and Fritz Kreisler did. I'm just responding to the rather goofy logic that was trotted out by someone else to prove some kind of point about vibrato. TONIGHT-I will be playing and performing on stage at a regional theater in a minatiure big band, with only two trombones and three trumpets and four saxes. And YOU KNOW WHAT? I will be very subtly vibratoing on some of the held notes. I happen to think that is one reason I get called back. I try my damndest to make beautiful music and I don't really care about what crowds and crowds of other musicians think. My paycheck says: Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Carr" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay >> ". . .Fritz Kreisler began applying vibrato almost constantly. . " >> >> A physics impossibility. [snip] >> .Probably means applying it much more often. > > I have no desire to quibble semantics; that sounds reasonable to me. > I'm sure the "almost constantly" was meant to exclude passages to > which no one could apply vibrato. > >> So I take from >> this that Joachim used less vibrato and Kreisler more. . .that is really >> all >> I can derive from this, even accepting what they say. > > I think you're missing the point. The reviewer specifically notes > that "Katz can't prove that the phonograph was responsible for the > change, but he makes a good case." No, there's no interview with > Kreisler where he says "I started using vibrato so that my tone was > clearer on phonographs," but the author is advancing a thesis and > making a case for it. > >> [the reviewer's phrasing is] indicative of NO UNDERSTANDING >> of acoustics. Almost all musical sound is made up of combinations of >> several different frequencies sounding at once, that is fact (but as >> usual, >> there is much more to the matter. . it is nowhere near this simple). > > But if the reviewer (or the author being reviewed) had discussed it in > terms intelligible only to experienced audio engineering scholars, > wouldn't that detract from his point, which is that vibrato evolved as > a performer's response to recording technology? The physics of the > acoustics behind Kreisler's playing don't matter to Kreisler; he's > playing what he thinks will sound best on the other end of the > recording-listening process. So why put on a diatribe about why > Kreisler was right? > >> It is difficult >> to discern with these statements, what, exactly was performance practice >> in >> the past. I'd much prefer seeing some detailed wrtiing from someone >> intimitately involved in centuries-ago performance. > > Are there any such writings? We don't even know much about when or > where the trombone was being played before 1875; what makes you think > there are whole reams of scholarship about vibrato use in the 1740s? > I think we're doing the best we can, archeologically. > >> Besides, I'm really not interested in what an audience heard in 1845. I >> believe that I'd like to make the best sound I can in 2005, er. . . >> .2006. > > Then quit speculating about the failures of historical > performance-practice scholarship, and focus on contemporary > technology. Let the folks who are curious about how and why vibrato > has been used down through the ages deal with it. > > George > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:50:48 -0600 From: Joshua Hauser Subject: [Trombone-l] Brass Arts Quintet in Concert at TTU Monday, February 13, 2006 To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Brass Arts Quintet Department of Music and Art ? Box 5045 ? Tennessee Technological University Cookeville, TN 38505 ? (931) 372-6086 ? e-mail: jhauser@tntech.edu FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Date: February 6, 2006 Contact: Joshua Hauser, Professor of Trombone (931) 372-6086, e-mail: jhauser@tntech.edu Brass Arts Quintet and Friends in Concert Cookeville, TN ? The Brass Arts Quintet at TTU will present a free concert at 7:30 PM on Monday, February 13, 2006 in TennesseeTech University?s Wattenbarger Auditorium. The program, subtitled Music for Soloists with Brass will feature members of the quintet as well as guest soloists Philip Barham, alto saxophone and TTU Graduate Bryce Edwards, euphonium. The evening?s concert will include Fisher Tull?s Concerto da Camera for solo alto saxophone and brass quintet, Blues Concerto for saxophone by Bill Holcombe, Weber?s Andante and Hungarian Rondo, featuring Bryce?s euphonium in the solo bassoon role, Verdi?s beautiful Caro Nome featuring trumpeter Charles Decker, and a new setting of jazz legend Tommy Dorsey?s Trombonology. Tennessee Tech Professor of Trombone Joshua Hauser says of the concert, ?We always look forward to the opportunity to work with our colleagues on other instruments and we thought that this would be a perfect opportunity to showcase some of our favorite works for saxophone and brass. Our tubist, Winston Morris, recently recognized how well suited the weber would be for bassoon and has had great success with it as a feature for Bryce with the tuba ensemble. When we were looking for repertoire for this performance, it was a natural fit to rework for quintet. This should be a fun and varied performance that everyone will enjoy. We look forward to seeing you here.? Please join us for these other upcoming brass concerts as well: 7: 30 PM Friday, February 24, 2006 Joshua Hauser, tenor trombone: Faculty chamber recital Featuring: Paul Thurmond, piano; Diane Pulte, mezzo soprano; Joseph Hermann, conductor; Trombones at Tech; Charles Decker, trumpet; Philip Barham, tenor saxophone; and Greg Danner, horn *************************************** Joshua Hauser, Assistant Professor of Trombone Box 5045 Department of Music and Art Tennessee Technological University Cookeville, TN 38505 931/372-6086 jhauser@tntech.edu http://iweb.tntech.edu/jhauser http://www.tntech.edu/brass/trombone ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:16:51 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Vibrato - yeah or nay To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Point 2-I feel like you think I don't read so well. . .Of course I > understand his point. I don't agree that this is sufficient basis to make > ANY ASSUMPTION whatsoever about generalized vibrato practice. We are > examining, NOT violin sections, but rather ONLY TWO persons, internationally > known violin soloists. This is simply extrapolation without justification. > HE DOES NOT MAKE A GOOD CASE. Dude, I'm quoting from a book review. Of course the review is not going to include all of the analysis and historical evidence from the book. It's the reviewer's opinion that the author makes a good case (!) that vibrato became much more common and widespread around the turn of the century and that this change in performance practice was related to (and according to the book author, caused by) the spread of recording technology. If you think the case hasn't been made, that's your right; but it's not fair to base that opinion on whether a review of the book makes the case as thoroughly as the book does. > Point 4-We are doing the best we can archaeologically. . maybe so, but then > that is the nature of digging. . .(heh! a little humor) We want to know so > we think about it, then we figure we will look more. I will not accept half > cocked BS stuff as scholarship and neither should you! So read Katz' book, and then decide whether the historical evidence is sufficient to make the case. Or maybe you could suggest some other books that deal with the history of performance practice esp. vibrato? I'm not trying to argue that Katz is right (although he's certainly read and listened to more of the historical evidence than either of us), but that Katz' scholarship may *be* the best scholarship out there, given the available evidence right now. > TONIGHT-[snip]-YOU KNOW WHAT? > I will be very subtly vibratoing on some of the held notes. Good for you. That's the point of studying history, after all: to determine what to do in the future. George ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 8 *****************************************