Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 1 Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2006 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 1 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver (andy.skaggs@wachovia.com) 2. OT: Aussie and NZ list members (Hans du Plooy) 3. US Taxes - 1099 question (Moran, Doug) 4. Re: US Taxes - 1099 question (Wayne Dyess) 5. Re: US Taxes - 1099 question (Moran, Doug) 6. Milhaud (David L. Loucky) 7. Milhaud (David L. Loucky) 8. Re: Milhaud (George Carr) 9. Re: Milhaud (andy.skaggs@wachovia.com) 10. Re: Milhaud (andy.skaggs@wachovia.com) 11. Re: Milhaud (Steve Gamble) 12. Re: Milhaud (Steve Gamble) 13. Re: Milhaud (Chris Dearth) 14. Re: Milhaud (Chris Dearth) 15. Wowsers! (Earl Needham) 16. Re: Milhaud (Roger Hecht) 17. Re: Milhaud (Roger Hecht) 18. Memorization of solos (Jackie Harris-Stone) 19. Re: Wowsers! (Charles De Paolo) 20. Re: Milhaud (Chris Dearth) 21. Re: Milhaud (Chris Dearth) 22. Re: Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver (Alby Tbone) 23. Re: Wowsers! (Chris Dearth) 24. Re: Wowsers! (Daryl Burch) 25. Re: Memorization of solos (Roger Hecht) 26. Re: Wowsers! (Chris Dearth) 27. Re: Memorization of solos (dslide13@aol.com) 28. Re: Memorization of solos (Roger Hecht) 29. Re: Memorization of solos (Raymond Horton) 30. Re: Bass Trombone with Band (Larry White) 31. Re: Milhaud (George Carr) 32. Re: Bass Trombone with Band (Chris Waage) 33. FW: Stolen Instruments (Chris Waage) 34. Re: Wowsers! (Chris Tune) 35. Re: Wowsers! (Daryl Burch) 36. Re: Wowsers! (Bryce Ferguson) 37. Re: Wowsers! (Chris Dearth) 38. Re: Memorization of solos (George Carr) 39. Re: Memorization of solos (jscot@ucalgary.ca) 40. Re: Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver (Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW) 41. Re: Wowsers! (Adrian Drover) 42. classical "concertos" Was: Milhaud (Howard Weiner) 43. Re: Memorization of solos (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 44. Double your pleasure.... (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 45. Re: Double your pleasure.... (Simon Bailey) 46. Re: US Taxes - 1099 question (Rick Onofrey) 47. Re: US Taxes - 1099 question (Mark Mohwinkel) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:32:04 -0500 From: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" To All - Thanks for all the feedback. A lot of good discussion on this topic. I'll say that I echo the lament about the lack of works from which to choose. In discussing the issue with my colleague on bass trombone, he mentioned that I could convey that to the conductor. I mean, whereas the concertmaster and principal flutist will have scores of solo works that fall into the time frame desired, I don't have that much. I was playing the Larsson this morning, and I like it well enough, it just doesn't put me over the edge in terms of excitement. One idea that occurred to me was the Copland Clarinet Concerto. Of course, that would be a stretch, physically, but I think would lie well for the trombone, and the jazz influence/glissandi would work nicely for the instrument. Might have to do some editing in some of the altissimo range stuff, but it's an idea. Thoughts? Regarding the Milhaud, I really like what I hear (but then, I'm a bit of a musical Francophile), and I think our strings would do a respectable job of it. And to clarify to the person that suggested it (John?), I would naturally be performing the Mozart/Wagenseil/Albrechtsberger on alto. I'm supposed to decide by the end of this week, and I'll let you know how it turns out. By the way, Raymond, I know Martin Hughes. He subbed in the Charlotte Symphony a few times during my year-stint with that orchestra (which sadly just ended on Sunday). I'll have to ask him about the R-K and tell him hello for you. - Andy ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:16:04 +0200 From: Hans du Plooy Subject: [Trombone-l] OT: Aussie and NZ list members To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <1138734965.18613.5.camel@theluggage.hansdp.za.net> Content-Type: text/plain Hi guys & girls, If there are any residents of New Zealand or Australia on the list who wouldn't mind me asking a few questions about your country, please contact me off list. I would love to ask you a few questions about the amateur-semi pro music scene. Thanks Hans ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:14:15 -0500 From: "Moran, Doug" Subject: [Trombone-l] US Taxes - 1099 question To: Bone List Message-ID: <88026026f79dd171b4a82c488e745890@denison.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I'm sure some of the folks on this list have dealt with this before. This probably applies only to US residents that pay taxes and lead groups (that include trombones ... required content). A question regarding 1099's (miscellaneous income) that you receive. If you lead a group, or even one gig, and payment comes to you, the organization paying you needs to file a 1099 with the IRS if the payment is over $600 so the IRS knows you earned money. (Any accumulated payment over $600 qualifies over the tax year.) I report my gig earnings via a schedule "C" on my taxes (most of my gigs are via a W-2 from the employer - 1099s are fairly new to me). However, I only earned a portion of the amount reported to the IRS on the 1099 that is coming to me. Since the rest of the players each were paid by me, and all considerably less than $600, I do not issue them 1099s. Does anyone know how to take these payments to other musicians off my Schedule C? I see line 11 might be the place (http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040sc/ch02.html#d0e458), but the instructions are rather limited. Any pointers for further study are appreciated. Death and taxes - just don't let them get in the way of music. Doug Moran morand@denison.edu ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:34:23 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] US Taxes - 1099 question To: "Moran, Doug" Cc: Bone List Message-ID: <84ba8c76aad751961b71deafbd808606@gt.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This is a GREAT question. As one who has been audited for like 10 years in a row (when I was booking my band), I think I can answer this one. You aren't going to like it, though. from the IRS: ========== Line 11 Enter the total cost of contract labor for the tax year. Do not include contract labor deducted elsewhere on your return such as contract labor that you included in Part III. Also, do not include salaries and wages paid to your employees, instead see line 26. ========== Without pulling out one of my IRS statements, this looks like the right place to make your claims. That said, you will likely trigger an audit as I did. With the exception of the first year, all of my audits were no-change audits. One year I had an agent who seemed to be the top-dog, and he delighted in going through my return line by line, check by check, which took the greater part of the day. I took two rest-room breaks. When all was said and done, it was STILL a no-change audit. Keep good records. You need to have 1099 type info on each player, and receipts for all payments. Other than that, just brace yourself for the dreaded audit letter. Trombone content? It would seem that a lot of trombonists are leaders. Maybe we wouldn't get calls any other way? :-) --Wayne Dyess On Jan 31, 2006, at 2:14 PM, Moran, Doug wrote: > I'm sure some of the folks on this list have dealt with this before. > This probably applies only to US residents that pay taxes and lead > groups (that include trombones ... required content). A question > regarding 1099's (miscellaneous income) that you receive. > > If you lead a group, or even one gig, and payment comes to you, the > organization paying you needs to file a 1099 with the IRS if the > payment is over $600 so the IRS knows you earned money. (Any > accumulated payment over $600 qualifies over the tax year.) > > I report my gig earnings via a schedule "C" on my taxes (most of my > gigs are via a W-2 from the employer - 1099s are fairly new to me). > However, I only earned a portion of the amount reported to the IRS on > the 1099 that is coming to me. Since the rest of the players each were > paid by me, and all considerably less than $600, I do not issue them > 1099s. > > Does anyone know how to take these payments to other musicians off my > Schedule C? I see line 11 might be the place > (http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040sc/ch02.html#d0e458), but the > instructions are rather limited. Any pointers for further study are > appreciated. > > Death and taxes - just don't let them get in the way of music. > > Doug Moran > morand@denison.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:47:33 -0500 From: "Moran, Doug" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] US Taxes - 1099 question To: Wayne Dyess Cc: Bone List Message-ID: <286b502157bac078cb17adba9f39bcf9@denison.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Wayne Dyess wrote: > This is a GREAT question. As one who has been audited for like 10 > years in a row (when I was booking my band), I think I can answer this > one. You aren't going to like it, though. I've never liked anything I've read involving the IRS, and I used to be a federal employee years ago! > from the IRS: > ========== > Line 11 > > Enter the total cost of contract labor for the tax year. Do not > include contract labor deducted elsewhere on your return such as > contract labor that you included in Part III. Also, do not include > salaries and wages paid to your employees, instead see line 26. > ========== > Without pulling out one of my IRS statements, this looks like the > right place to make your claims. That said, you will likely trigger > an audit as I did. With the exception of the first year, all of my > audits were no-change audits. One year I had an agent who seemed to > be the top-dog, and he delighted in going through my return line by > line, check by check, which took the greater part of the day. I took > two rest-room breaks. When all was said and done, it was STILL a > no-change audit. Man, that must have been a pain. I am not looking to cheat the IRS, but I hate paying taxes on something I didn't earn, especially since federal taxes feed state and local taxes! > Keep good records. You need to have 1099 type info on each player, > and receipts for all payments. Other than that, just brace yourself > for the dreaded audit letter. > > Trombone content? It would seem that a lot of trombonists are > leaders. Maybe we wouldn't get calls any other way? > :-) Almost every good group I play in, I started and run. Lots of good jokes to make us feel better about the trombone employment situation. Thanks for your advice and input! Doug ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:20:23 -0600 (CST) From: "David L. Loucky" Subject: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: trombone-l@samford.edu Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed What a great opportunity! Don't underestimate it! Such chances are really rare. Here's my 2 cents: The Milhaud is frequently underrated and misunderstood. It is positively a gem of a piece, although many recordings have not capitalized on the playful angularity of the outer movements, early Jazz influenced rhythmic energy, tongue-in-cheek alteration of accidentals in the third movement, and shivery nature of the second movement. I performed it satisfactorily with a liberal arts college orchestra string section years ago, which is certainly preferable to a piano reduction. While the string parts are challenging, the college orchestra, mostly made up of non-majors, seemed to do them justice. I would think a professional orchestra tackling Lutoslawski could handle them. Two vastly different recordings I own have durations of 10:00 and 12:00. The Martin Ballade is a terrific one movement piece as well, with a much fuller orchestration. Kazimierz Serocki's Sonatine is short, and he did a version for orchestra. A copy of the score is at Yale School of Music's Library, and it was available through Moek Verlag, copywrite 1974. William Goldstein's Colloquy is a nice flashy piece, and I believe there is an orchestra version instead of band on a rental basis. Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most interesting of pieces. Good luck with it! David Loucky Professor of Trombone and Euphonium Middle Tennessee State University ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:20:23 -0600 (CST) From: "David L. Loucky" Subject: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: trombone-l@samford.edu Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed What a great opportunity! Don't underestimate it! Such chances are really rare. Here's my 2 cents: The Milhaud is frequently underrated and misunderstood. It is positively a gem of a piece, although many recordings have not capitalized on the playful angularity of the outer movements, early Jazz influenced rhythmic energy, tongue-in-cheek alteration of accidentals in the third movement, and shivery nature of the second movement. I performed it satisfactorily with a liberal arts college orchestra string section years ago, which is certainly preferable to a piano reduction. While the string parts are challenging, the college orchestra, mostly made up of non-majors, seemed to do them justice. I would think a professional orchestra tackling Lutoslawski could handle them. Two vastly different recordings I own have durations of 10:00 and 12:00. The Martin Ballade is a terrific one movement piece as well, with a much fuller orchestration. Kazimierz Serocki's Sonatine is short, and he did a version for orchestra. A copy of the score is at Yale School of Music's Library, and it was available through Moek Verlag, copywrite 1974. William Goldstein's Colloquy is a nice flashy piece, and I believe there is an orchestra version instead of band on a rental basis. Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most interesting of pieces. Good luck with it! David Loucky Professor of Trombone and Euphonium Middle Tennessee State University ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:25:32 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: "David L. Loucky" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? And is there an orchestral transcription of the Sulek Sonata? I was just listening to Joe Alessi's (predictably excellent) recording recently, and it struck me that the piece was ripe for transcription. Considering that it was written in 1973, there's been plenty of time to adapt the work, and it's only 8' long. George ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:36:53 -0500 From: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: George Carr Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" A friend of mine was recently telling me about a transcription of Sulek currently in the works. I'll keep you posted if I hear more. At this point, as I just wrote David, I'm leaning toward the Milhaud for various reasons. - Andy ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:36:53 -0500 From: andy.skaggs@wachovia.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: George Carr Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" A friend of mine was recently telling me about a transcription of Sulek currently in the works. I'll keep you posted if I hear more. At this point, as I just wrote David, I'm leaning toward the Milhaud for various reasons. - Andy ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:42:23 -0700 From: "Steve Gamble" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: "George Carr" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi George, I did an orchestration of the Sulek a couple of years ago that was performed by our principal. Through a miscommunication, I thought I was doing a legal adaption. But the European agent for Sulek's estate sort of went ballistic when he realized that an adaption had been made. Sulek gave explicit instructions to his estate not to allow adaptions of his works (perhaps that will change some day when they realize what it might do to broaden the public's awareness of Sulek's music). I think it would be legal to make an "artist's arrangement" for the purpose of recording, but permission from the copyright holder would still be needed for public performance. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of George Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:26 PM To: David L. Loucky Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu; trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud > Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? And is there an orchestral transcription of the Sulek Sonata? I was just listening to Joe Alessi's (predictably excellent) recording recently, and it struck me that the piece was ripe for transcription. Considering that it was written in 1973, there's been plenty of time to adapt the work, and it's only 8' long. George _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:42:23 -0700 From: "Steve Gamble" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: "George Carr" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi George, I did an orchestration of the Sulek a couple of years ago that was performed by our principal. Through a miscommunication, I thought I was doing a legal adaption. But the European agent for Sulek's estate sort of went ballistic when he realized that an adaption had been made. Sulek gave explicit instructions to his estate not to allow adaptions of his works (perhaps that will change some day when they realize what it might do to broaden the public's awareness of Sulek's music). I think it would be legal to make an "artist's arrangement" for the purpose of recording, but permission from the copyright holder would still be needed for public performance. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of George Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:26 PM To: David L. Loucky Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu; trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud > Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? And is there an orchestral transcription of the Sulek Sonata? I was just listening to Joe Alessi's (predictably excellent) recording recently, and it struck me that the piece was ripe for transcription. Considering that it was written in 1973, there's been plenty of time to adapt the work, and it's only 8' long. George _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:44:33 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: "David L. Loucky" , Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I read through the Chavez a couple of times with piano for a grad school rep class at Arizona State. It would be the most challenging of all the pieces mentioned so far for the audience (and for the player). I know people that know much of Chavez's work and their reaction to it was that it didn't sound like him (it lacked a LOT of the more appealing aspects of Chavez according to them). I haven't done any theoretical analysis of it, but (aurally) it bordered on 12-tone type music. Frankly, it generated more heat than light. :-) snip > > Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? > > In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may > fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most > interesting of pieces. > > Good luck with it! > > David Loucky > Professor of Trombone and Euphonium > Middle Tennessee State University > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l The constraints his conductor are putting on him are a real kicker. No partial works, 8-10 minutes, flashy. The Albrechtsberger works a lot better than the Mozart of the Wagenseil (I just did it with a couple smaller groups here in WV and it was received quite well by the audiences). Unfortunately, its almost 20 minutes. Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan -- ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:44:33 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: "David L. Loucky" , Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I read through the Chavez a couple of times with piano for a grad school rep class at Arizona State. It would be the most challenging of all the pieces mentioned so far for the audience (and for the player). I know people that know much of Chavez's work and their reaction to it was that it didn't sound like him (it lacked a LOT of the more appealing aspects of Chavez according to them). I haven't done any theoretical analysis of it, but (aurally) it bordered on 12-tone type music. Frankly, it generated more heat than light. :-) snip > > Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? > > In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may > fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most > interesting of pieces. > > Good luck with it! > > David Loucky > Professor of Trombone and Euphonium > Middle Tennessee State University > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l The constraints his conductor are putting on him are a real kicker. No partial works, 8-10 minutes, flashy. The Albrechtsberger works a lot better than the Mozart of the Wagenseil (I just did it with a couple smaller groups here in WV and it was received quite well by the audiences). Unfortunately, its almost 20 minutes. Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan -- ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:51:50 -0700 From: Earl Needham Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20060131155124.02734be8@email.plateautel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/melindamurphy/main1195835.shtml No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis Electronics" on it) Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:52:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: Chris Dearth , "David L. Loucky" , trombone-l@samford.edu Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <29263607.1138747952321.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I believe this was his last work and he was ailing at the time. It indeed does not sound like most Chavez. -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Dearth >Sent: Jan 31, 2006 5:44 PM >To: "David L. Loucky" , trombone-l@samford.edu >Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud > >I read through the Chavez a couple of times with piano for a grad school >rep class at Arizona State. It would be the most challenging of all the >pieces mentioned so far for the audience (and for the player). I know >people that know much of Chavez's work and their reaction to it was that it >didn't sound like him (it lacked a LOT of the more appealing aspects of >Chavez according to them). I haven't done any theoretical analysis of it, >but (aurally) it bordered on 12-tone type music. Frankly, it generated more >heat than light. :-) > > >snip >> >> Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? >> >> In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may >> fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most >> interesting of pieces. >> >> Good luck with it! >> >> David Loucky >> Professor of Trombone and Euphonium >> Middle Tennessee State University >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > >The constraints his conductor are putting on him are a real kicker. No >partial works, 8-10 minutes, flashy. The Albrechtsberger works a lot better >than the Mozart of the Wagenseil (I just did it with a couple smaller groups >here in WV and it was received quite well by the audiences). Unfortunately, >its almost 20 minutes. > > >Chris Dearth >Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan > >-- > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:52:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: Chris Dearth , "David L. Loucky" , trombone-l@samford.edu Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <29263607.1138747952321.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I believe this was his last work and he was ailing at the time. It indeed does not sound like most Chavez. -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Dearth >Sent: Jan 31, 2006 5:44 PM >To: "David L. Loucky" , trombone-l@samford.edu >Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud > >I read through the Chavez a couple of times with piano for a grad school >rep class at Arizona State. It would be the most challenging of all the >pieces mentioned so far for the audience (and for the player). I know >people that know much of Chavez's work and their reaction to it was that it >didn't sound like him (it lacked a LOT of the more appealing aspects of >Chavez according to them). I haven't done any theoretical analysis of it, >but (aurally) it bordered on 12-tone type music. Frankly, it generated more >heat than light. :-) > > >snip >> >> Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? >> >> In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may >> fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most >> interesting of pieces. >> >> Good luck with it! >> >> David Loucky >> Professor of Trombone and Euphonium >> Middle Tennessee State University >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > >The constraints his conductor are putting on him are a real kicker. No >partial works, 8-10 minutes, flashy. The Albrechtsberger works a lot better >than the Mozart of the Wagenseil (I just did it with a couple smaller groups >here in WV and it was received quite well by the audiences). Unfortunately, >its almost 20 minutes. > > >Chris Dearth >Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan > >-- > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:55:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jackie Harris-Stone Subject: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060131225520.49582.qmail@web50005.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I wanted to get some opinions, thoughts, and reasons for memorizing and not memorizing solos as a requirement in conservatories. I have started the first year of trombone studies at our local conservatory, where there is a long established tradition of players memorizing their solos for juries. The wind department is a young department; in general, we are not in favor of memorization, ranging from me (it should not be a requirement, except at the teacher's recommendation), two who feel that only the standard concertos (i.e. audition concertos) should be required memorization, and one who holds the official established party line of sonatas do not need to be memorized, but concertos do. This is a bit arbitrary; I asked, in the context of juries, yesterday, what the official definition of a concerto was (I wanted to start discussion),. and we came to the consensus that the Lebedev Concerto in one movement (bass trombone and tuba) would count as a sonata, because of the heavily involved piano part. This stopped one of my students for being penalized a grade and a half, which would have been a shame because it was an excellent performance (he ended up getting a 97, which was the 2nd highest grade given.) We are preparing for an open discussion on the revision of the rules, and the biggest sticking point seems to be "why do strings and pianos memorize, and we don't?" (The strings and pianos are more established, so if we do change the rules, we have to explain it to the strings and pianos, somehow, and they don't seem very open). My official position is that stuff SHOULD be memorized to perform- whether an audition or a solo performance- but having memorized it, and practiced it memorized, I still use the music when I perform. I feel having a different standard for my students is hypocritical. So, are there any college or conservatory teachers that have come across this? And what did you decide? Or, the rest of you, how would you explain this position that trombones don't generally memorize? (I have performed one piece from memory (the Lebedev), and don't recall having seen another live trombone performance sans music). Jackie Harris-Stone Bass trombone, Orquesta Sinfonica de Monterrey Professor of Low Brass, Escuela Superior de Musica y Danza, UANL --------------------------------- What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:01:04 -0500 From: "Charles De Paolo" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: , "Earl Needham" Message-ID: <015301c626ba$3b1b5f60$1e00a8c0@Road1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yet another reason to throw it in the lake. Oh, and BTW, Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk! ----- Original Message ----- From: Earl Needham To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/melindamurphy/main1195835.shtml No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis Electronics" on it) Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:59:33 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: Roger Hecht , "David L. Loucky" , Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII That would explain a lot about what kind of emotional content he was getting at. Hmmm..... Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan -- On 1/31/06 5:52 PM, "Roger Hecht" wrote: > I believe this was his last work and he was ailing at the time. It indeed does > not sound like most Chavez. > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Dearth >> Sent: Jan 31, 2006 5:44 PM >> To: "David L. Loucky" , trombone-l@samford.edu >> Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud >> >> I read through the Chavez a couple of times with piano for a grad school >> rep class at Arizona State. It would be the most challenging of all the >> pieces mentioned so far for the audience (and for the player). I know >> people that know much of Chavez's work and their reaction to it was that it >> didn't sound like him (it lacked a LOT of the more appealing aspects of >> Chavez according to them). I haven't done any theoretical analysis of it, >> but (aurally) it bordered on 12-tone type music. Frankly, it generated more >> heat than light. :-) >> >> >> snip >>> >>> Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? >>> >>> In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may >>> fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most >>> interesting of pieces. >>> >>> Good luck with it! >>> >>> David Loucky >>> Professor of Trombone and Euphonium >>> Middle Tennessee State University >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> The constraints his conductor are putting on him are a real kicker. No >> partial works, 8-10 minutes, flashy. The Albrechtsberger works a lot better >> than the Mozart of the Wagenseil (I just did it with a couple smaller groups >> here in WV and it was received quite well by the audiences). Unfortunately, >> its almost 20 minutes. >> >> >> Chris Dearth >> Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >> Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:59:33 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: Roger Hecht , "David L. Loucky" , Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII That would explain a lot about what kind of emotional content he was getting at. Hmmm..... Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan -- On 1/31/06 5:52 PM, "Roger Hecht" wrote: > I believe this was his last work and he was ailing at the time. It indeed does > not sound like most Chavez. > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Dearth >> Sent: Jan 31, 2006 5:44 PM >> To: "David L. Loucky" , trombone-l@samford.edu >> Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud >> >> I read through the Chavez a couple of times with piano for a grad school >> rep class at Arizona State. It would be the most challenging of all the >> pieces mentioned so far for the audience (and for the player). I know >> people that know much of Chavez's work and their reaction to it was that it >> didn't sound like him (it lacked a LOT of the more appealing aspects of >> Chavez according to them). I haven't done any theoretical analysis of it, >> but (aurally) it bordered on 12-tone type music. Frankly, it generated more >> heat than light. :-) >> >> >> snip >>> >>> Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? >>> >>> In my opinion, pieces like the Leopold Mozart or Wagenseil, while they may >>> fit the guidelines that have been pre-set, are simply not the most >>> interesting of pieces. >>> >>> Good luck with it! >>> >>> David Loucky >>> Professor of Trombone and Euphonium >>> Middle Tennessee State University >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> The constraints his conductor are putting on him are a real kicker. No >> partial works, 8-10 minutes, flashy. The Albrechtsberger works a lot better >> than the Mozart of the Wagenseil (I just did it with a couple smaller groups >> here in WV and it was received quite well by the audiences). Unfortunately, >> its almost 20 minutes. >> >> >> Chris Dearth >> Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >> Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:38:03 +0100 From: "Alby Tbone" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhuad Concertino D'Hiver Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <003301c626bf$61e2cb60$c5312c97@bimbo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Wagenseil = 10 minutes (two movements) really funny to play and a good endurance test. L.Mozart = about 13 minutes (3 mov) Albrechtsberger = 16 minutes, 3 mov. harder than Wagenseil's in MHO. To complete all the four eighteenth century trombone concerts you forgot Michael Haydn's....really challenging. I've got all the four complete scores if someone have any questions about orchestration. (I just finished my final dissertation with a full chapter about those concerts...but it's written in italian, and I haven't got enough spare time to translate that) Ciao Alby Tbone Borio ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:17:36 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: Charles De Paolo , , Earl Needham Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I've got the branding iron!! Let's have a party!! You guys bring the junk and I'll brand it!! Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan -- On 1/31/06 6:01 PM, "Charles De Paolo" wrote: > Yet another reason to throw it in the lake. > > Oh, and BTW, > > Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Earl Needham > To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM > Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! > > > > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/melindamurphy > /main1195835.shtml > > No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Earl > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > > Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis Electronics" > on it) > > Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:25:35 -0800 From: Daryl Burch Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: Chris Dearth Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu, Earl Needham Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Who's bringin' the Guiness?! I'll bring the P.D.Q. Bach Trombone Concertos! {Somebody's gonna need to bring a jaw harp!} Cheers! -D- www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-) On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Chris Dearth wrote: > I've got the branding iron!! Let's have a party!! You guys bring the > junk > and I'll brand it!! > > > Chris Dearth > Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony > Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan > > -- > > > > > On 1/31/06 6:01 PM, "Charles De Paolo" wrote: > >> Yet another reason to throw it in the lake. >> >> Oh, and BTW, >> >> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk! >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Earl Needham >> To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM >> Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! >> >> >> >> >> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/ >> melindamurphy >> /main1195835.shtml >> >> No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> Earl >> >> >> Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk >> >> Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis >> Electronics" >> on it) >> >> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:28:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: Jackie Harris-Stone , trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <5806632.1138750101910.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The argument against is that in the daily performing lives of most trombonists, for a number of good reasons memorization is not a factor. In fact--and again for many good reasons--the player needs to have the music available. It follows that classical trombonists don't solo much and are generally not trained to be professional soloists. Pianist and string players more often are. Put more crudely, memorization is not in the job description of most classical trombonists. -----Original Message----- >From: Jackie Harris-Stone >Sent: Jan 31, 2006 5:55 PM >To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >Subject: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos > > I wanted to get some opinions, thoughts, and reasons for memorizing and not memorizing solos as a requirement in conservatories. I have started the first year of trombone studies at our local conservatory, where there is a long established tradition of players memorizing their solos for juries. The wind department is a young department; in general, we are not in favor of memorization, ranging from me (it should not be a requirement, except at the teacher's recommendation), two who feel that only the standard concertos (i.e. audition concertos) should be required memorization, and one who holds the official established party line of sonatas do not need to be memorized, but concertos do. This is a bit arbitrary; I asked, in the context of juries, yesterday, what the official definition of a concerto was (I wanted to start discussion),. and we came to the consensus that the Lebedev Concerto in one movement (bass trombone and tuba) would count as a sonata, because of the heavily > involved piano part. This stopped one of my students for being penalized a grade and a half, which would have been a shame because it was an excellent performance (he ended up getting a 97, which was the 2nd highest grade given.) > > We are preparing for an open discussion on the revision of the rules, and the biggest sticking point seems to be "why do strings and pianos memorize, and we don't?" (The strings and pianos are more established, so if we do change the rules, we have to explain it to the strings and pianos, somehow, and they don't seem very open). > > My official position is that stuff SHOULD be memorized to perform- whether an audition or a solo performance- but having memorized it, and practiced it memorized, I still use the music when I perform. I feel having a different standard for my students is hypocritical. > > So, are there any college or conservatory teachers that have come across this? And what did you decide? Or, the rest of you, how would you explain this position that trombones don't generally memorize? (I have performed one piece from memory (the Lebedev), and don't recall having seen another live trombone performance sans music). > > > > >Jackie Harris-Stone >Bass trombone, Orquesta Sinfonica de Monterrey >Professor of Low Brass, Escuela Superior de Musica y Danza, UANL > >--------------------------------- > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:29:07 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: Daryl Burch Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu, Earl Needham Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Adrian?? :-) While your at it, bring some Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout to go with the P.D.Q. Bach Concertos!! On 1/31/06 6:25 PM, "Daryl Burch" wrote: > Who's bringin' the Guiness?! > > I'll bring the P.D.Q. Bach Trombone Concertos! {Somebody's gonna need > to bring a jaw harp!} > > Cheers! > -D- > www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night > www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-) > > > On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Chris Dearth wrote: > >> I've got the branding iron!! Let's have a party!! You guys bring the >> junk >> and I'll brand it!! >> >> >> Chris Dearth >> Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >> Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> On 1/31/06 6:01 PM, "Charles De Paolo" wrote: >> >>> Yet another reason to throw it in the lake. >>> >>> Oh, and BTW, >>> >>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk! >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Earl Needham >>> To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM >>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/ >>> melindamurphy >>> /main1195835.shtml >>> >>> No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>> Earl >>> >>> >>> Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk >>> >>> Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis >>> Electronics" >>> on it) >>> >>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:56:52 -0500 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: rihecht@earthlink.net, bassboneladymail@yahoo.com, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <8C7F4D9248C73A9-1020-2EFA@mblk-r43.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Memorization may not be in the job description of most classical trombonists, but it can be a valuable tool for a musician. The process of memorizing a solo can force one to organize and understand the solo in a different way. It frees up the visual sense so that the performer can hear themselves and also the accompaniment...which lends to creating the true dialogue that the composer conceived. Practical?...perhaps not. Valuable?...Absolutely, yes. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- From: Roger Hecht To: Jackie Harris-Stone ; trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:28:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos The argument against is that in the daily performing lives of most trombonists, for a number of good reasons memorization is not a factor. In fact--and again for many good reasons--the player needs to have the music available. It follows that classical trombonists don't solo much and are generally not trained to be professional soloists. Pianist and string players more often are. Put more crudely, memorization is not in the job description of most classical trombonists. -----Original Message----- >From: Jackie Harris-Stone >Sent: Jan 31, 2006 5:55 PM >To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >Subject: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos > > I wanted to get some opinions, thoughts, and reasons for memorizing and not memorizing solos as a requirement in conservatories. I have started the first year of trombone studies at our local conservatory, where there is a long established tradition of players memorizing their solos for juries. The wind department is a young department; in general, we are not in favor of memorization, ranging from me (it should not be a requirement, except at the teacher's recommendation), two who feel that only the standard concertos (i.e. audition concertos) should be required memorization, and one who holds the official established party line of sonatas do not need to be memorized, but concertos do. This is a bit arbitrary; I asked, in the context of juries, yesterday, what the official definition of a concerto was (I wanted to start discussion),. and we came to the consensus that the Lebedev Concerto in one movement (bass trombone and tuba) would count as a sonata, because of the heavily > involved piano part. This stopped one of my students for being penalized a grade and a half, which would have been a shame because it was an excellent performance (he ended up getting a 97, which was the 2nd highest grade given.) > > We are preparing for an open discussion on the revision of the rules, and the biggest sticking point seems to be "why do strings and pianos memorize, and we don't?" (The strings and pianos are more established, so if we do change the rules, we have to explain it to the strings and pianos, somehow, and they don't seem very open). > > My official position is that stuff SHOULD be memorized to perform- whether an audition or a solo performance- but having memorized it, and practiced it memorized, I still use the music when I perform. I feel having a different standard for my students is hypocritical. > > So, are there any college or conservatory teachers that have come across this? And what did you decide? Or, the rest of you, how would you explain this position that trombones don't generally memorize? (I have performed one piece from memory (the Lebedev), and don't recall having seen another live trombone performance sans music). > > > > >Jackie Harris-Stone >Bass trombone, Orquesta Sinfonica de Monterrey >Professor of Low Brass, Escuela Superior de Musica y Danza, UANL > >--------------------------------- > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l Roger Hecht _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:58:34 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: dslide13@aol.com, bassboneladymail@yahoo.com, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20806223.1138751914767.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I won't deny that. I should have mentioned it, but in this case I was making practical points. -----Original Message----- >From: dslide13@aol.com >Sent: Jan 31, 2006 6:56 PM >To: rihecht@earthlink.net, bassboneladymail@yahoo.com, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos > >Memorization may not be in the job description of most classical >trombonists, but it can be a valuable tool for a musician. The process >of memorizing a solo can force one to organize and understand the solo >in a different way. It frees up the visual sense so that the performer >can hear themselves and also the accompaniment...which lends to >creating the true dialogue that the composer conceived. > > Practical?...perhaps not. Valuable?...Absolutely, yes. > > David Gibson > trombonist/educator > www.jazzbone.org > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Hecht > To: Jackie Harris-Stone ; >trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:28:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos > > > The argument against is that in the daily performing lives of most >trombonists, > for a number of good reasons memorization is not a factor. In >fact--and again > for many good reasons--the player needs to have the music available. >It follows > that classical trombonists don't solo much and are generally not >trained to be > professional soloists. Pianist and string players more often are. > > Put more crudely, memorization is not in the job description of most >classical > trombonists. > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Jackie Harris-Stone > >Sent: Jan 31, 2006 5:55 PM > >To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > >Subject: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos > > > > I wanted to get some opinions, thoughts, and reasons for memorizing >and not > memorizing solos as a requirement in conservatories. I have started >the first > year of trombone studies at our local conservatory, where there is a >long > established tradition of players memorizing their solos for juries. >The wind > department is a young department; in general, we are not in favor of > memorization, ranging from me (it should not be a requirement, except >at the > teacher's recommendation), two who feel that only the standard >concertos (i.e. > audition concertos) should be required memorization, and one who holds >the > official established party line of sonatas do not need to be >memorized, but > concertos do. This is a bit arbitrary; I asked, in the context of >juries, > yesterday, what the official definition of a concerto was (I wanted to >start > discussion),. and we came to the consensus that the Lebedev Concerto >in one > movement (bass trombone and tuba) would count as a sonata, because of >the > heavily > > involved piano part. This stopped one of my students for being >penalized a > grade and a half, which would have been a shame because it was an >excellent > performance (he ended up getting a 97, which was the 2nd highest grade >given.) > > > > We are preparing for an open discussion on the revision of the >rules, and > the biggest sticking point seems to be "why do strings and pianos >memorize, and > we don't?" (The strings and pianos are more established, so if we do >change the > rules, we have to explain it to the strings and pianos, somehow, and >they don't > seem very open). > > > > My official position is that stuff SHOULD be memorized to perform- >whether > an audition or a solo performance- but having memorized it, and >practiced it > memorized, I still use the music when I perform. I feel having a >different > standard for my students is hypocritical. > > > > So, are there any college or conservatory teachers that have come >across > this? And what did you decide? Or, the rest of you, how would you >explain this > position that trombones don't generally memorize? (I have performed >one piece > from memory (the Lebedev), and don't recall having seen another live >trombone > performance sans music). > > > > > > > > > >Jackie Harris-Stone > >Bass trombone, Orquesta Sinfonica de Monterrey > >Professor of Low Brass, Escuela Superior de Musica y Danza, UANL > > > >--------------------------------- > > > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos > >_______________________________________________ > >Trombone-l mailing list > >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > Roger Hecht > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:11:43 -0500 From: Raymond Horton Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: Jackie Harris-Stone Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <43DFFCBF.5030606@insightbb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed For juries, I see no need at all. For concerto competitions, certainly. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist Lousville Orchestra Jackie Harris-Stone wrote: > I wanted to get some opinions, thoughts, and reasons for memorizing and not memorizing solos as a requirement in conservatories. > ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:26:31 -0800 From: Larry White Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Bass Trombone with Band To: Phil Brink , trombone-l@samford.edu, hayesc1@ohio.edu Message-ID: <43E00037.8030204@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I think there are some versions of Jerico (sp) that is a crowd pleaser - I have heard this on a bass bone with the British Brass Bands L J Phil Brink wrote: >I have done Concertino Basso by Lieb and Beelzebub by Catozzi in that >setting with success. Check out Hickey's Web site... > >Phil Brink >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Hayes" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:25 AM >Subject: [Trombone-l] Bass Trombone with Band > > > > >>I am looking for a piece to do with bass trombone and band. It is a >>community band, so I need something that would be appropriate in that >>setting. Any suggestions are appreciated. >> >>Chris Hayes >>_______________________________________________ >>Trombone-l mailing list >>Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:25:32 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud To: "David L. Loucky" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Has anyone performed or heard the Concerto by Carlos Chavez? And is there an orchestral transcription of the Sulek Sonata? I was just listening to Joe Alessi's (predictably excellent) recording recently, and it struck me that the piece was ripe for transcription. Considering that it was written in 1973, there's been plenty of time to adapt the work, and it's only 8' long. George ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:09:23 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Bass Trombone with Band To: Trombone-L Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Gordon Jacob's "Cameos" for Bass Trombone is a good piece. First two movements are a little tough for the band due to the key (Gb major), but it's a solid work. Chris On 1/31/06 6:26 PM, "Larry White" smote the keyboard with: > I think there are some versions of Jerico (sp) that is a crowd pleaser - > I have heard this on a bass bone with the British Brass Bands > L J > > Phil Brink wrote: > >> I have done Concertino Basso by Lieb and Beelzebub by Catozzi in that >> setting with success. Check out Hickey's Web site... >> >> Phil Brink >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Christopher Hayes" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:25 AM >> Subject: [Trombone-l] Bass Trombone with Band >> >> >> >> >>> I am looking for a piece to do with bass trombone and band. It is a >>> community band, so I need something that would be appropriate in that >>> setting. Any suggestions are appreciated. >>> >>> Chris Hayes >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:30:35 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: [Trombone-l] FW: Stolen Instruments To: Trombone-L Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" ------ Forwarded Message From: Brad Williams Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:23:58 GMT To: News Subject: OTJ Message From: Brad Williams The following message has been sent via the OTJ contact form: From: Brad Williams On: 1/31/2006 5:23:58 PM OTJ Department Selected: News Subject Entered: stolen trombones Message: Hi, My name is Brad Williams and I'm the second trombonist in the Buffalo Philharmonic. I'm writing to report two stolen trombones in New York City on Jan. 12th. One belongs to me and the second one belongs to Ben Green who plays bass trombone in the Hartford Symphony. I'm hoping I could post an add on the website to keep trombonists aware of this and to report if they see the instruments. This is especially true in the New York area. There was one Edwards tenor trombone with the serial number #0311005 and there was also a bass trombone with the serial #0010029. The tenor was in a brown nylon Reunion Blues gig bag and the bass was in a black leather Cronkhite gig bag. My cell phone number is 727-366-2301 and Ben's cell phone number is 646-483-1129. Please let me know if this will be posted or if I need to give more information. Thank you. ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:19:38 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: "Chris Dearth" , "Daryl Burch" Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu, Earl Needham Message-ID: <020f01c626de$5612ddb0$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Aha! Now, you discuss something MEANINGFUL. I say have both Samuel Smith AND the Youngs Oatmeal Stout. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Dearth" To: "Daryl Burch" Cc: ; "Earl Needham" Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! > Adrian?? :-) While your at it, bring some Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout to > go > with the P.D.Q. Bach Concertos!! > > > On 1/31/06 6:25 PM, "Daryl Burch" wrote: > >> Who's bringin' the Guiness?! >> >> I'll bring the P.D.Q. Bach Trombone Concertos! {Somebody's gonna need >> to bring a jaw harp!} >> >> Cheers! >> -D- >> www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night >> www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-) >> >> >> On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Chris Dearth wrote: >> >>> I've got the branding iron!! Let's have a party!! You guys bring the >>> junk >>> and I'll brand it!! >>> >>> >>> Chris Dearth >>> Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >>> Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/31/06 6:01 PM, "Charles De Paolo" wrote: >>> >>>> Yet another reason to throw it in the lake. >>>> >>>> Oh, and BTW, >>>> >>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk! >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Earl Needham >>>> To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu >>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM >>>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/ >>>> melindamurphy >>>> /main1195835.shtml >>>> >>>> No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>> Earl >>>> >>>> >>>> Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk >>>> >>>> Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis >>>> Electronics" >>>> on it) >>>> >>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:04:37 -0800 From: Daryl Burch Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: "Chris Tune" Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu, Earl Needham Message-ID: <8b6172e54a35a4e8e4b113c83c1b58e2@speakeasy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed OK. Now who's bringin' the sarousaphone and the kazoos? On Jan 31, 2006, at 7:19 PM, Chris Tune wrote: > Aha! Now, you discuss something MEANINGFUL. > > I say have both Samuel Smith AND the Youngs Oatmeal Stout. > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Dearth" > > To: "Daryl Burch" > Cc: ; "Earl Needham" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! > > >> Adrian?? :-) While your at it, bring some Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout >> to go >> with the P.D.Q. Bach Concertos!! >> >> >> On 1/31/06 6:25 PM, "Daryl Burch" wrote: >> >>> Who's bringin' the Guiness?! >>> >>> I'll bring the P.D.Q. Bach Trombone Concertos! {Somebody's gonna need >>> to bring a jaw harp!} >>> >>> Cheers! >>> -D- >>> www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night >>> www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-) >>> >>> >>> On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Chris Dearth wrote: >>> >>>> I've got the branding iron!! Let's have a party!! You guys bring >>>> the >>>> junk >>>> and I'll brand it!! >>>> >>>> >>>> Chris Dearth >>>> Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >>>> Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/31/06 6:01 PM, "Charles De Paolo" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yet another reason to throw it in the lake. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, and BTW, >>>>> >>>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Earl Needham >>>>> To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM >>>>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/ >>>>> melindamurphy >>>>> /main1195835.shtml >>>>> >>>>> No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>> Earl >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk >>>>> >>>>> Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis >>>>> Electronics" >>>>> on it) >>>>> >>>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:46:26 -0800 From: "Bryce Ferguson" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: "Daryl Burch" , "Chris Tune" Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu, Earl Needham Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have a 'friend' who owns a heckelphone. Will that do? ;-) > From: darylburch@speakeasy.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:04:37 -0800> To: crtune@adelphia.net> CC: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu; needhame1@plateautel.net> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers!> > OK. Now who's bringin' the sarousaphone and the kazoos?> > > On Jan 31, 2006, at 7:19 PM, Chris Tune wrote:> >> Aha! Now, you discuss something MEANINGFUL.>>>> I say have both Samuel Smith AND the Youngs Oatmeal Stout.>>>> Chris>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Dearth" >> >> To: "Daryl Burch" >> Cc: ; "Earl Needham" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:29 PM>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers!>>>>>>> Adrian?? :-) While your at it, bring some Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout >>> to go>>> with the P.D.Q. Bach Concertos!!>>>>>>>>> On 1/31/06 6:25 PM, "Daryl Burch" wrote:>>>>>>> Who's bringin' the Guiness?!>>>>>>>> I'll bring the P.D.Q. Bach Trombone Concertos! {Somebody's gonna need>>>> to bring a jaw harp!}>>>>>>>> Cheers!>>>> -D->>>> www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night>>>> www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-)>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Chris Dearth wrote:>>>>>>>>> I've got the branding iron!! Let's have a party!! You guys bring >>>>> the>>>>> junk>>>>> and I'll brand it!!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Dearth>>>>> Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony>>>>> Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan>>>>>>>>>> -->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/31/06 6:01 PM, "Charles De Paolo" wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> Yet another reason to throw it in the lake.>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, and BTW,>>>>>>>>>>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----->>>>>> From: Earl Needham>>>>>> To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM>>>>>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/>>>>>> melindamurphy>>>>>> /main1195835.shtml>>>>>>>>>>>> No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>>>>> Earl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovi! s, New M exico DM84jk>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis>>>>>> Electronics">>>>>> on it)>>>>>>>>>>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list>>>>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu>>>>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list>>>>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu>>>>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list>>>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu>>>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> Trombone-l mailing list>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________> Trombone-l mailing list> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 00:04:17 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: Chris Tune , Daryl Burch Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu, Earl Needham Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Youngs Double Chocolate Stout would be for the Cadenzas!! Chris On 1/31/06 10:19 PM, "Chris Tune" wrote: > Aha! Now, you discuss something MEANINGFUL. > > I say have both Samuel Smith AND the Youngs Oatmeal Stout. > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Dearth" > To: "Daryl Burch" > Cc: ; "Earl Needham" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! > > >> Adrian?? :-) While your at it, bring some Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout to >> go >> with the P.D.Q. Bach Concertos!! >> >> >> On 1/31/06 6:25 PM, "Daryl Burch" wrote: >> >>> Who's bringin' the Guiness?! >>> >>> I'll bring the P.D.Q. Bach Trombone Concertos! {Somebody's gonna need >>> to bring a jaw harp!} >>> >>> Cheers! >>> -D- >>> www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night >>> www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-) >>> >>> >>> On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Chris Dearth wrote: >>> >>>> I've got the branding iron!! Let's have a party!! You guys bring the >>>> junk >>>> and I'll brand it!! >>>> >>>> >>>> Chris Dearth >>>> Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony >>>> Adjunct Instructor, West Virginia Wesleyan >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/31/06 6:01 PM, "Charles De Paolo" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yet another reason to throw it in the lake. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, and BTW, >>>>> >>>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on original branded junk! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Earl Needham >>>>> To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:51 PM >>>>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/10/earlyshow/contributors/ >>>>> melindamurphy >>>>> /main1195835.shtml >>>>> >>>>> No comment -- well, actually, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>> Earl >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk >>>>> >>>>> Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis >>>>> Electronics" >>>>> on it) >>>>> >>>>> Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > > ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 01:38:49 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: Jackie Harris-Stone Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > My official position is that stuff SHOULD be memorized to perform- whether an audition or a solo performance- but having memorized it, and practiced it memorized, I still use the music when I perform. I feel having a different standard for my students is hypocritical. Public audiences expect that soloists should perform from memory. It increases the connection between soloist and audience, makes the soloist more aware of form and structure, and avoids any unhealthy comparison between soloists on various instruments (e.g. violin soloists memorize, why shouldn't tuba soloists?). So, I would expect that all soloists playing in public would perform from memory, and wind players don't get a break simply because they're "newer" or have a smaller book fo concerto literature to pick from (in fact, because the trombone solo repertoire is so small, it's hard to explain to string or woodwind players why memorization should not be required). How to draw the line for students is more complicated: obviously, they're not playing for the public most of the time, but we hope to train them to play for the public. So, I would encourage soloists to perform from memory at all times, but you and your cooperating faculty should decide which works should command memorization and where the various lines should be drawn, in light of experience, seniority, capability, and complication. George ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:17:35 -0700 (MST) From: jscot@ucalgary.ca Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: "George Carr" Cc: Jackie Harris-Stone , trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <1119.68.146.218.18.1138778255.squirrel@68.146.218.18> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 My reaction to this thread is that memorization is, or at least should be a personal decision for the performer. While all of the points about the connection between the performer and audience are well-stated and valid, I've even seen pianists and violinists use music as soloists when they were performing contemporary music. The whole memorization fad for those instruments rises as much from practical considerations (page turns) as from aesthetic considerations. Also, when a violinist shows up to play the Mendelssohn Concerto, they are likely playing it 30 other times that season in different cities, while a poor trombonist waits years to have the opportunity to perform the Grondahl once in his career. I would fight against requiring memorization in a school setting. Jim Scott Calgary Philharmonic (where I've performed a few concertos, always w/music). My official position is that stuff SHOULD be memorized to perform- >> whether an audition or a solo performance- but having memorized it, >> and practiced it memorized, I still use the music when I perform. I >> feel having a different standard for my students is hypocritical. > > Public audiences expect that soloists should perform from memory. It > increases the connection between soloist and audience, makes the > soloist more aware of form and structure, and avoids any unhealthy > comparison between soloists on various instruments (e.g. violin > soloists memorize, why shouldn't tuba soloists?). So, I would expect > that all soloists playing in public would perform from memory, and > wind players don't get a break simply because they're "newer" or have > a smaller book fo concerto literature to pick from (in fact, because > the trombone solo repertoire is so small, it's hard to explain to > string or woodwind players why memorization should not be required). > > How to draw the line for students is more complicated: obviously, > they're not playing for the public most of the time, but we hope to > train them to play for the public. So, I would encourage soloists to > perform from memory at all times, but you and your cooperating faculty > should decide which works should command memorization and where the > various lines should be drawn, in light of experience, seniority, > capability, and complication. > > George > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:35:43 +0100 From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver To: "Glendening, Andrew" , "Trb. List" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain I took some friends to an ETW concert, the Grand Finale where featured soloists play concerto after concerto. They were not trombone players and not musically sophisticated, but not total rednecks either, just general public initially willing to come to a serious music oncert. They haven't spoken to me since. This music was not accessible. An overdose of it went beyond inaccessible, to painful. One comment they had was, "there's no melody. It's just all big jumps." And there's more truth in that than I'd realized, once I tried to listen through their ears. The soloists were fantastic. They played at least flawlessly, usually musically, but this wasn't enough. Of course Sturgeon's law applies, 90% of anything is garbage, and over time gets discarded while the good stuff remains. And I don't think this criticism is unique to trombone. I have occasionally heard a work for trumpet, etc., that had the same problems. But it seems to be worse for us, at least with the works I've heard. When you listen to a concerto, you should think (or rather, feel) that it was great music and you were really moved. But with trombone concertos too often I react more like, "Holy Carp, how did he do that? I could never play that!" Doug Yeo played the Brubeck at a Pops Concert some years back. It was an inspired choice, I thought. It had melody, it never sounded difficult (part of that was superb execution, of course, but much of it is also writing that eschewed gratuitous technicality) and it was listenable without being pop or elevator music. There aren't many other trombone pieces that would fit those criteria. Almost enough ranting. Two points. One, trombone players are in general terrible judges of what an audience might think of a piece. For the most part we cannot put ourselves in their ears. Two, (and proof of point one) what's up with mutes? A large number of concertos included muted sections. Performers bring out a music stand and set 3 to 5 mutes there. Even if they've memorized and don't need a stand for the music! To the average classical music audience, the mutes do not add, they detract. They break the flow both visually and aurally, and the audience really doesn't understand why you would take the tone you worked years to achieve and make it worse voluntarily. I think they conclude it's one of those annoying mandatory elements, like in a figure skater's formal routine. -----Original Message----- From: Glendening, Andrew [mailto:Andrew_Glendening@redlands.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 04:52 To: Trb. List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver I'd have to agree with Bob that that list a sad reflection of our literature. That is something that we trombonists might want to ponder. At least there are some newer works that bode well for the future (most of which are too long - like Rouse - for your needs.) The Martin - Ballade is an excellent piece and not too long. The orchestra version is quite effective and easier to bring off physically than Creston. All of the parts that kill the pianist make good sense in the orchestra. Good luck! Andrew Glendening ________________________________ From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu on behalf of Robert Holland Sent: Mon 1/30/2006 7:26 PM To: Trb. List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Milhaud Concertino D'Hiver Andy Skaggs wrote: > It's one of those pieces that just never blipped on my radar screen, > for whatever reason. I did (just today) download a portion of a > recording, and it sounds like a nice piece (certainly > "audience-friendly" enough in my opinion). I think I'll put it on the > short list and let the conductor decide what will work best, > programming-wise. The Milhaud is a very good work, IMO. I played it on a recital tour I did some years ago. But it has one cardinal weakness: the orchestral accompaniment is quite difficult and almost always sound bad in performance. If you don't have an excellent string section or generous rehearsal time, the soloist can be tainted by association. > The short list will probably look something like this: > > Creston (still haven't given up on this) +/- 12min Larsson +/- 10min > Milhaud +/- 11min Tomasi (mvt.s 2 & 3) +/- 8min > Wagenseil/Mozart/Albrechtsberger +/- ? This list just plain depresses me, as it indicates pretty well just how shallow the pool of works to consider is. Robert Holland, Publisher Briar Music Press briar@rcn.com www.briarmusic.com _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:49:32 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wowsers! To: "'Bryce Ferguson'" , "'Daryl Burch'" , "'Chris Tune'" Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu, 'Earl Needham' Message-ID: <001801c6270c$6c410890$0100a8c0@Adrian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > From: Bryce Ferguson > > I have a 'friend' who owns a heckelphone. Will that do? ;-) Only if you intend to be a heckler. A. ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:03:20 +0100 From: Howard Weiner Subject: [Trombone-l] classical "concertos" Was: Milhaud To: "Alby Tbone" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060201105215.00a38b50@mail.sampo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed At 00:38 01.02.06 +0100, Alby Tbone wrote: >Wagenseil = 10 minutes (two movements) really funny to play and a good >endurance test. >L.Mozart = about 13 minutes (3 mov) >Albrechtsberger = 16 minutes, 3 mov. harder than Wagenseil's in MHO. > >To complete all the four eighteenth century trombone concerts you forgot >Michael Haydn's....really challenging. > >I've got all the four complete scores if someone have any questions about >orchestration. Alby, Sorry to disappoint you, but the works by L. Mozart and M. Haydn are not trombone concertos, but rather concertante movements taken from a divertimento (Haydn) and a serenata (Mozart). There also exists a "Largehetto ? Trombone conc:to" by M. Haydn, which is likewise a movement from a larger work (an incompletely preserved "sinfonia"). Food for thought: The Wagenseil concerto usually does have a duration of ca. 10 minutes (at least on the 3 recordings I have of it), but the tempo marking usually given for the first movement -- Con Discretione (Quasi andante, eighth-note = 100) -- is not original and was supplied by the modern editor (Kurt Janetzky, and also taken over by Alain Trudel for his edition). Moreover, I know of no justification during the (pre-)Classical period for taking the eighth-note as the basic pulse in a piece written in common time (C). IMO, taking it in eight tends to rob the phrases of their rhythmic logic, and just makes the whole movement rather lugubrious. As a more reasonable tempo, I would suggest "Andante, quarter-note = 60-68", which also restores the natural strong-weak rhythmic relationship within the measure (beats 1 and 3 strong, 2 and 4 weak). With this somewhat faster tempo, the whole concerto would probably take ca. 9 minutes, that is if you don't get carried away in the cadenza. Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ------------------------------ Message: 43 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 9:46:07 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Memorization of solos To: Jackie Harris-Stone Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <19791974.1138805167714.JavaMail.root@web16> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 First - he!! no. Second, pianos and strings are visual instruments. There is a visual reference for the performance other than the printed music. This is not the case with the Brass. It is somewhat the case for woodwinds, as each note has a unique fingering, so at least there is a concrete sensory reference, but I would not require it of them either. With Brass, the only concrete reference we get is the printed page. J.c.S. ---- Jackie Harris-Stone wrote: > I wanted to get some opinions, thoughts, and reasons for memorizing and not memorizing solos as a requirement in conservatories. I have started the first year of trombone studies at our local conservatory, where there is a long established tradition of players memorizing their solos for juries. The wind department is a young department; in general, we are not in favor of memorization, ranging from me (it should not be a requirement, except at the teacher's recommendation), two who feel that only the standard concertos (i.e. audition concertos) should be required memorization, and one who holds the official established party line of sonatas do not need to be memorized, but concertos do. This is a bit arbitrary; I asked, in the context of juries, yesterday, what the official definition of a concerto was (I wanted to start discussion),. and we came to the consensus that the Lebedev Concerto in one movement (bass trombone and tuba) would count as a sonata, because of the heavily > involved piano part. This stopped one of my students for being penalized a grade and a half, which would have been a shame because it was an excellent performance (he ended up getting a 97, which was the 2nd highest grade given.) > > We are preparing for an open discussion on the revision of the rules, and the biggest sticking point seems to be "why do strings and pianos memorize, and we don't?" (The strings and pianos are more established, so if we do change the rules, we have to explain it to the strings and pianos, somehow, and they don't seem very open). > > My official position is that stuff SHOULD be memorized to perform- whether an audition or a solo performance- but having memorized it, and practiced it memorized, I still use the music when I perform. I feel having a different standard for my students is hypocritical. > > So, are there any college or conservatory teachers that have come across this? And what did you decide? Or, the rest of you, how would you explain this position that trombones don't generally memorize? (I have performed one piece from memory (the Lebedev), and don't recall having seen another live trombone performance sans music). > > > > > Jackie Harris-Stone > Bass trombone, Orquesta Sinfonica de Monterrey > Professor of Low Brass, Escuela Superior de Musica y Danza, UANL > > --------------------------------- > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 44 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 9:47:23 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: [Trombone-l] Double your pleasure.... To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <31438912.1138805243501.JavaMail.root@web16> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Is everyone else getting messages twice (twice).... ECHO echo .... J.c.S. ------------------------------ Message: 45 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:49:33 +0100 From: Simon Bailey Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Double your pleasure.... To: thetubameister@adelphia.net Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060201144933.GA6631@pc6139-c703.uibk.ac.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wed, Feb 01, 2006 at 09:47:23AM -0500, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > Is everyone else getting messages twice (twice).... somebody cc'ed a mail to the list to which then everyone "answered-all", the first saw that trombone-l wasn't in the To: field, so it got entered there. from then on all mails in that thread came in twice. :) regards, sb -- Simon Bailey Systems Administrator Institut fuer Informatik Universitaet Innsbruck Technikerstrasse 21a/2 A-6020 Innsbruck Tel: +43 (0) 512 507 - 6433 http://informatik.uibk.ac.at/ ------------------------------ Message: 46 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 11:14:36 -0500 From: "Rick Onofrey" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] US Taxes - 1099 question To: "'Moran, Doug'" , "'Bone List'" Message-ID: <200602011614.k11GEdRB015025@server5.samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Doug Moran asked: "However, I only earned a portion of the amount reported to the IRS on the 1099 that is coming to me. Since the rest of the players each were paid by me, and all considerably less than $600, I do not issue them 1099s. Does anyone know how to take these payments to other musicians off my Schedule C? I see line 11 might be the place (http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040sc/ch02.html#d0e458), but the instructions are rather limited. Any pointers for further study are appreciated." I chose to reply: Doug, you are exactly right. Income paid to contract labor is reported on Line 11 of Schedule C. If you paid anyone over $600, make sure that you get them a 1099. Also, make darn sure that you keep immaculate records of all income/payments to contractors for the IRS, in case of an audit. Richard E. Onofrey, Jr., CLU, ChFC Certified Financial PlannerT And yes, I also play a trombone in my spare time Spare time? What's that?? ------------------------------ Message: 47 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 09:41:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Mohwinkel Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] US Taxes - 1099 question To: Rick Onofrey , "'Moran, Doug'" , "'Bone List'" Message-ID: <20060201174116.32101.qmail@web52311.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I also concur with Rick. I am a seasonal tax preparer (I know, I enjoy it, call me sick but it also pays for my trombone habit) and that is how I would do it for you. As stated by many of the others on this list, the records are vital. Mark Mohwinkel --- Rick Onofrey wrote: > Doug Moran asked: > > "However, I only earned a portion of the amount > reported to the IRS on the > 1099 that is coming to me. Since the rest of the > players each were paid by > me, and all considerably less than $600, I do not > issue them 1099s. > > Does anyone know how to take these payments to other > musicians off my > Schedule C? I see line 11 might be the place > (http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040sc/ch02.html#d0e458), > but the > instructions are rather limited. Any pointers for > further study are > appreciated." > > > I chose to reply: > > Doug, you are exactly right. Income paid to > contract labor is reported on > Line 11 of Schedule C. If you paid anyone over > $600, make sure that you get > them a 1099. Also, make darn sure that you keep > immaculate records of all > income/payments to contractors for the IRS, in case > of an audit. > > > Richard E. Onofrey, Jr., CLU, ChFC > Certified Financial PlannerT > And yes, I also play a trombone in my spare time > > Spare time? What's that?? > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 1 *****************************************