Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 26 Date: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 26 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Nashville (Adrian Drover) 2. Re: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 25 (mikesuter@adelphia.net) 3. I'm going to ETW!!! (hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au) 4. Re: I'm going to ETW!!! (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 5. Re: I'm going to ETW!!! (hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au) 6. Dancing With The Stars (Richard Z. Johnson) 7. Re: Dancing With The Stars (ALEX ILES) 8. Re: Dancing With The Stars (Alisha Ard) 9. Re: Lost Wallet (Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW) 10. Re: Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups (Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW) 11. Rental Agency? (mpurdy@jwpepper.com) 12. Re: Dancing With The Stars (ALEX ILES) 13. Re: Rental Agency? (Steve Gamble) 14. Seller Question (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 15. Which size mute? (Bill Langston) 16. Musician Test[humor] (Mearl Danner) 17. Re: Which size mute? (Roger Carmichael) 18. Re: Which size mute? (Mearl Danner) 19. Re: Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups (Chris Tune) 20. Re: Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups (Chris Tune) 21. Re: Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups (Jeff Albert) 22. Re: Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups (richard.bartkus@cox.net) 23. Re: Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups (George Carr) 24. Finally, our prayers are answered (Gabriel Langfur) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:39:40 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Nashville To: "'emrose79'" , Message-ID: <005501c622a7$de66f510$0100a8c0@Adrian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > From: emrose79 > > Well, Adrian... would that be deep fried in the same oil they used for > the Haggis? > O-BOY!!!!! Sure Ed. The sheep's brains and guts give the chocolate bar a distinct Scottish flavour. You think McDonald's and KFC are bad? You ain't had real food. A. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:54:15 -0800 From: mikesuter@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 25 To: trombone-l@samford.edu Cc: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Message-ID: <1712641.1138308855997.JavaMail.root@web18> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 C-crook?? Sorry to weigh-in late on this one (I was in Las Vegas for 5 days), but...... --- Raymond Horton wrote: Hi All, << Ed Anderson . . . had his Bach 50 in-line tuned to Bb - F - C >> I've had a C crook made for the second rotor for my Kanstul 1662i (Bb-F-G-Eb version). I only use it on specific tunes and, like Anderson, don't use both rotors at the same time - too ugly. I use it maybe 5-10% of the time. MS ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:42:12 +0800 From: hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au Subject: [Trombone-l] I'm going to ETW!!! To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060127054212.xljz5rpbwjq8kgss@mymail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" G'day all! Well I'm heading over to the US on the 20th Feb to go and work for Gary Greenhoe for a month. It looks like I will be going to the ETW as a rep for Greenhoe on his booth too (WooHoo). If any of y'all are going to be there, please drop by and say "G'day Mate!" I'll be the one with the Aussie accent! It'd be great to put faces and personalities to the names. To say that I'm excited about this is an understatement!! Look forward to seeing (and hearing you) there. Cheers Matthew Walker Bass Trombonist Opera Australia Walker's Instrument Repair, "The Brassery" ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using MyMail ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:02:22 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] I'm going to ETW!!! To: hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <32098763.1138312942350.JavaMail.root@web26> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Where/When is ETW this year? J.c. ---- hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au wrote: > G'day all! > > Well I'm heading over to the US on the 20th Feb to go and work for Gary > Greenhoe > for a month. It looks like I will be going to the ETW as a rep for Greenhoe on > his booth too (WooHoo). If any of y'all are going to be there, please drop by > and say "G'day Mate!" I'll be the one with the Aussie accent! It'd be great to > put faces and personalities to the names. > > To say that I'm excited about this is an understatement!! Look forward > to seeing > (and hearing you) there. > > Cheers > Matthew Walker > Bass Trombonist Opera Australia > Walker's Instrument Repair, "The Brassery" > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using MyMail > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 06:13:43 +0800 From: hlmswlkr@ozemail.com.au Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] I'm going to ETW!!! To: thetubameister@adelphia.net Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060127061343.lkt2b0g4yhkckcc4@mymail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" > Where/When is ETW this year? > > J.c. > 16 to 18 March, Ft Myer. Check out:- http://www.easterntromboneworkshop.org/index_002.htm Cheers Matthew ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using MyMail ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:41:45 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: [Trombone-l] Dancing With The Stars To: Message-ID: <000701c622f3$98ad0130$2bfb9648@richard85o6cjg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was watching the show for the first time tonight. I heard trombones. Who is in the section? ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:19:14 -0800 From: ALEX ILES Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dancing With The Stars To: "Richard Z. Johnson" Cc: List Trombone Message-ID: <13460AB6-8EEC-11DA-9C7A-000D93C8F54C@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The regulars are Andy Martin, Reggie Young, and Craig Gosnell [on bass bone]. ========================== On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:41 PM, Richard Z. Johnson wrote: > I was watching the show for the first time tonight. > > I heard trombones. > > Who is in the section? > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:41:15 +0300 From: Alisha Ard Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dancing With The Stars To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Alex, were you there tonight? ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:18:31 +0100 From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Lost Wallet To: Bill Dinwiddie , List Trombone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain I made that photocopy, and to be sure I can always get to it quickly I keep it in my wallet. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Dinwiddie [mailto:billdin@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 00:35 To: List Trombone Subject: [Trombone-l] Lost Wallet Well, I lost my wallet today. It sure is a bad feeling. The good news is that I found it again about 2 hours later, but only after I lost about 32 lbs. in something akin to "flop sweat", which stage entertainers suffer when things are not going too well out in the audience. I sure hope none of you ever go through this, but it is probably inevitable, kind of like when (not if) your hard drive is going to fail. May I suggest something to all of you who have not taken this simple step in basic security. Find a Xerox copier, place all of your credit cards, driver's license, library cards, and everything else in your wallet, on the glass and make several copies. Now, turn all the cards over and do the same for the reverse side. Put the copies in your safe deposit box or some other super secure place. Update the copies every time you get new card. I used my scanner to scan all my cards and then copied all those files to a few CD-Roms. Especially important are the 1-800 phone numbers on the backs of the cards. You will know exactly who to call to cancel your cards before anyone starts running up a big bill on you. I sweat bullets when I misplaced my wallet, but at least I had a place to start. Thank the Lord that I didn't have to cancel everything, but it would have been infinitely worse, trying to remember all those numbers. Please pardon my unsolicited advice. Bill Dinwiddie billdin@comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:23:48 +0100 From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups To: Robert Holland , "Trb. List" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Interesting. Do you think the age of the performer/composer/listener makes much difference? At my age nostalgia for the "good old days" is a significant component and I tend to want to hear things played close to the way they exist in my fond memories. When I was younger something fresh and original might have had much more weight. Might want to scan the audience before playing, at least estimate the percentage over 60. Of course, if you ever play for a square dance, you'll see a bifurcated distribution: everybody under 13 or over 60. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Holland [mailto:briar@rcn.com] Jazz may be unusual in the respect that the edge goes to the innovators, at least until that point where they are transformed by age into summarizers (Armstrong, Ellington, Gillespie). Jazz has always been a restless art, changing continuously before anything had time to settle and be summarized. However, lots of musicians approach jazz as summarizers. It's a mindset. And the audience may sometimes demand it for any number of reasons. Robert Holland, Publisher Briar Music Press briar@rcn.com www.briarmusic.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:52:34 -0500 From: mpurdy@jwpepper.com Subject: [Trombone-l] Rental Agency? To: List Trombone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dear List: Can anyone tell me the Rental Agent (and hopefully address and phone) for the orchestral parts for the Grondahl Trombone Concerto? Many thanks, Mike ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 06:54:41 -0800 From: ALEX ILES Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Dancing With The Stars To: Alisha Ard Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Not this week. I just got to sub the last couple weeks for Reggie Young as he was on tour in Japan with Earth, Wind and Fire. Alex ================= On Jan 26, 2006, at 8:41 PM, Alisha Ard wrote: > Alex, were you there tonight? > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:05:47 -0700 From: "Steve Gamble" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Rental Agency? To: , "List Trombone" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Mike, The rental agent for Samfundet in the U.S. is C.F. Peters. rentals@cfpeters-ny.com Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of mpurdy@jwpepper.com Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:53 AM To: List Trombone Subject: [Trombone-l] Rental Agency? Dear List: Can anyone tell me the Rental Agent (and hopefully address and phone) for the orchestral parts for the Grondahl Trombone Concerto? Many thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:15:06 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: [Trombone-l] Seller Question To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <7272727.1138374907037.JavaMail.root@web27> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Quick question - I'm looking to buy an ax from Bryan Hardester (Bryan, if you're on the L, you'll excuse my caution, I hope - you seam quite cool! But in this day and age...) Anyone know him and vouch for him? Thanks in advance J.c.S. ---- mpurdy@jwpepper.com wrote: > Dear List: > > Can anyone tell me the Rental Agent (and hopefully address and phone) for > the orchestral parts for the Grondahl Trombone Concerto? > > Many thanks, > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:24:17 -0600 From: "Bill Langston" Subject: [Trombone-l] Which size mute? To: "Trombone-L" Message-ID: <02ae01c62355$cf003f10$6b03a8c0@arcdiversified.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I need to pick up a straight and cup mute (and will probably get a harmon / wow-wow while I'm at it, because the adolescent appeal still hasn't faded in middle-age). For a large-bore tenor (Holton TR-151), do I need to buy a tenor mute or bass mute? I've had tenor mutes in the past, and it seemed to me (particularly with the cup mute) that they were made for much smaller horns than mine. I've been looking at the Jo-Ral line, but I'm open to suggestions (I'd prefer to stay away from the Stone Lined-style mutes, as I have crushed too many of them in my lifetime already). Thanks -- Bill Langston ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:43:37 -0600 From: "Mearl Danner" Subject: [Trombone-l] Musician Test[humor] To: "Trombone-L List" Message-ID: <43D9EB48.D3A9.00B6.0@samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Time for a little comic relief. There is trombone content, and string, and sax, and tuba, and percussion, and ...... Mearl Musician TEST! See how many you can ANSWER!Lots of oldies but a few new ones. ---------------------------------- Q: What is the difference between a drummer and a monkey? A: You can train a monkey. Q: How does a lead singer screw in a light bulb? A: He holds the bulb and the world revolves around him. A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I think I'd like to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both." Q: What's the difference between a guitar player and a large pizza? A: A large pizza can feed a family of four. Q: What do you call a beautiful woman on a trombonist's arm? A: A tattoo. Q: What's the difference between a drummer and a kaleidoscope? A: One produces a random set of patterns designed to entertain a 4 year old and the other you aim at a light source and turn. Q: What do you call a guitarist without a girlfriend? A: Homeless. Q: What do you call a drummer in a three-piece suit? A: The Defendant. Q: What did the drummer get on his IQ test? A: Saliva. Q: How do you know when the stage is level? A: When the drool runs out of both sides of the drummer's mouth in equal amounts. Q: Did you hear about the bass player who accidentally locked the keys in his car? A: It took him an hour to get the drummer out. Q: What's the similarity between a drummer and a philosopher? A: They both perceive time as an abstract concept. Q: What is the difference between a drummer and a vacuum cleaner? A: You have to plug one of them in before it sucks. Q: Why do some people have an instant aversion to banjo players? A: It saves time in the long run. Q: What's the difference between a jet airplane and a trombone? A: About three decibels. Q: How do you know when a singer is at your door? A: They can't find the key, the knock has no rhythm, and they don't know when to come in. Q: What's the latest crime wave in New York City? A: Drive-by trombone solos. Q: What's the difference between a dead trombonist and a dead skunk in the road? A: The skunk may have been on the way to a gig. Q: What's the definition of a minor second interval? A: Two soprano sax players reading off the same part. Q: What is another term for trombone? A: A wind-driven, manually operated pitch approximator. Q: What is the dynamic range of a bass trombone? A: On or off. Q: What's the difference between a SCUD missile and a bad oboist? A: A bad oboist can kill you. Q: Why do people play trombone? A: Because they can't move their fingers and read music at the same time. Q: How does a violist's brain cell die? A: Alone. Q: What do you call a guitar player who only knows two chords? A: A music critic. Q: Why did the clarinet player marry the accordion player? A: Upward mobility. Q: How do you keep your violin from being stolen? A: Put it in a viola case. Q: What's the difference between a violin and a viola? A: A viola burns longer. A saying you'll never hear....That's the banjo player's Porsche. Q: What do a viola and a lawsuit have in common? A: Everyone is relieved when the case is finally closed. Q: There are two tuba players sitting in a car. Who's driving? A: The policeman. Q: Why are harps like elderly parents? A: Both are unforgiving and hard to get into and out of cars. Q: What has 3 legs and an idiot on top of it? A: A drum stool. Q: What's the difference between an oboe and a bassoon? A: You can hit a baseball farther with a bassoon. Q: What do you call the guy who hangs out with the musicians in the band? A: The drummer. Tuba player: "Did you hear my last recital?" Friend: "I hope so." Glissando: A technique adopted by string players for difficult runs. Music: A complex organization of sounds that is set down by the composer, incorrectly interpreted by the conductor, who is ignored by the musicians, the result of which is abhorred by the audience. Successful musician: One whose girlfriend (boyfriend) has at least 2 jobs. Conductor: A musician who is adept at following many people at the same time. Relative minor: A Country & Western guitarist's girlfriend. Subito piano: Indicates an opportunity for some obscure orchestra player to become a soloist. Musica ficta: When you lose your place and have to bluff until you find it again. A female vocalist asks her keyboard player, "I'd like to do 'My Funny Valentine' again tonight, but can you think of a way to 'jazz it up'?" Keyboard player replies, "Sure, we can do the first chorus in G minor, then modulate to G# minor for the second chorus in 5/4 time, then modulate to A minor in time for the bridge, then cut off the last 3 bars!" She exclaims, "That might be too complicated to do without a rehearsal!" Keyboard player responds, "Well, it shouldn't be, that's how you sang it last night!" Q: What do you throw a drowning guitar player? A: His amplifier Q: How many drummers does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: Five! One to screw it in and four to debate if Neil Peart could do it better. Q: How is a drum kit and a Hoover alike? A: They both have a dirtbag on them. Q: What do you call a drumset that plays itself? A: Electronic ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:51:39 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Roger Carmichael Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Which size mute? To: Bill Langston , Trombone-L Message-ID: <4582258.1138377100214.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm a big fan of Tom Crown copper-bottom straight mutes. I have both the tenor and bass sizes for my 42B (8 1/2" bell)and Shires Dbl rotor (9 1/2" bell). Each fit and look fine in both trombones. The Jo-Ral metal cup mutes also serve as straights by removing the cup. Only trouble is the time involved to R & R the cup while playing. -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Langston >Sent: Jan 27, 2006 10:24 AM >To: Trombone-L >Subject: [Trombone-l] Which size mute? > >I need to pick up a straight and cup mute (and will probably get a harmon / >wow-wow while I'm at it, because the adolescent appeal still hasn't faded in >middle-age). For a large-bore tenor (Holton TR-151), do I need to buy a >tenor mute or bass mute? I've had tenor mutes in the past, and it seemed to >me (particularly with the cup mute) that they were made for much smaller >horns than mine. I've been looking at the Jo-Ral line, but I'm open to >suggestions (I'd prefer to stay away from the Stone Lined-style mutes, as I >have crushed too many of them in my lifetime already). > >Thanks -- Bill Langston > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:57:00 -0600 From: "Mearl Danner" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Which size mute? To: "Trombone-L" Message-ID: <43D9EE6C.D3A9.00B6.0@samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I use a Wick straight and cup in my Getzen 547 bore. Both seem fine in an 8? inch bell. Tuning is fairly consistent. They also work OK in a 500 bore 8 inch bell horn. Probably a bit large for the Holton small-bore (a 2B clone - dual bore 71/2 bell). I've used Stonelined mutes in it in the past. Mearl >>> "Bill Langston" 1/27/2006 9:24:17 am >>> I need to pick up a straight and cup mute (and will probably get a harmon / wow-wow while I'm at it, because the adolescent appeal still hasn't faded in middle-age). For a large-bore tenor (Holton TR-151), do I need to buy a tenor mute or bass mute? I've had tenor mutes in the past, and it seemed to me (particularly with the cup mute) that they were made for much smaller horns than mine. I've been looking at the Jo-Ral line, but I'm open to suggestions (I'd prefer to stay away from the Stone Lined-style mutes, as I have crushed too many of them in my lifetime already). Thanks -- Bill Langston _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:29:06 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups To: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" , "Robert Holland" , "Trb. List" Message-ID: <006801c6235e$cb22c7b0$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original WARNING-I'm not so sure that these terms work well because we probably assign lesser value to "consolidators" that we do to the "innovators". Let me tell you that the innovators would love to come here and "poke us some new eye sockets". . .because, as Bix, or Bird would tell you--"being an innovator SUCKS!" It's dangerous to try and "load" words with emotional content that they don't really have. If Mozart is a consolidator, then is that a "lesser" state? Is it the "highest state". . .the terms are loaded. . .just like a broadcast from Dan Rather. POINT An argument can be made that Jazz was primarily innovative and "restless" during its first fifty or sixty years of life, but after that (once avante garde jazz and "free jazz" had come down) the innovation began to twist in strains of other types of music or music from far away locales (Bossa Nova). The argument could be made that this was the end cap to a fabulous run. Innovation had dispersed itself out into several areas including Rock and Roll. At around this time, summarizers and consolidators became supreme (look at Freddie Hubbard critically. . .he really is a consolidator of a fabulous amount of great jazz, but doesn't pull or twist jazz into some entirely new direction--of course he's absolutely fabulous!). That same side of the argument would probably posit that the ready availability of electric and electronic instruments moved jazz into an area that is no longer completely distinguishable as "jazz" (i.e. fusion, funk, hyped-up blues, progressive). Lately, arguments would go, home electronics and home studios are moving things in new directions but without any "mass movement", but many, many unique statements The counter to this, might be that jazz resurects itself in the hands of players like those down in New Orleans who play drum and horn band sounds at parties. And it is not a forgone conclusion that jazz may yet be reborn with a real "movement" of immense proportions. But we don't know how that could happen. The above is not neccesarily my final opinion but rather a "train of thought" which is hypothetical, based upon my understanding of jazz history (which is pretty good, mind you). Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" To: "Robert Holland" ; "Trb. List" Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups > Interesting. > > Do you think the age of the performer/composer/listener makes much > difference? At my age nostalgia for the "good old days" is a significant > component and I tend to want to hear things played close to the way they > exist in my fond memories. When I was younger something fresh and > original > might have had much more weight. > > Might want to scan the audience before playing, at least estimate the > percentage over 60. Of course, if you ever play for a square dance, > you'll > see a bifurcated distribution: everybody under 13 or over 60. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Holland [mailto:briar@rcn.com] > > > Jazz may be unusual in the respect that the edge goes to the innovators, > at > least until that point where they are transformed by age into summarizers > (Armstrong, Ellington, Gillespie). Jazz has always been a restless art, > changing continuously before anything had time to settle and be > summarized. > However, lots of musicians approach jazz as summarizers. It's a mindset. > And > the audience may sometimes demand it for any number of reasons. > > Robert Holland, Publisher > Briar Music Press > briar@rcn.com > www.briarmusic.com > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:35:09 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups To: "Chris Tune" , "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" , "Robert Holland" , "Trb. List" Message-ID: <009b01c6235f$a3ad80c0$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I'm sorry: The Terms: SUMMARIZER (I used consolidator. . .and most of you are sooo smart you probably figured what I meant. . .this snafu begs the question--is there a "form" of innovation which involves re-consolidating other styles?). INNOVATOR (I got this right. . .but I didn't discuss at length the world favoring the SUMMARIZER. . .I think this is absolutely right. . .this type has the advantage of man's great, great ability to break things down and ANALYZE them.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Tune" To: "Richardson,Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" ; "Robert Holland" ; "Trb. List" Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups > WARNING-I'm not so sure that these terms work well because we probably > assign lesser value to "consolidators" that we do to the "innovators". > Let > me tell you that the innovators would love to come here and "poke us some > new eye sockets". . .because, as Bix, or Bird would tell you--"being an > innovator SUCKS!" It's dangerous to try and "load" words with emotional > content that they don't really have. If Mozart is a consolidator, then is > that a "lesser" state? Is it the "highest state". . .the terms are > loaded. > . .just like a broadcast from Dan Rather. > > POINT > An argument can be made that Jazz was primarily innovative and "restless" > during its first fifty or sixty years of life, but after that (once avante > garde jazz and "free jazz" had come down) the innovation began to twist in > strains of other types of music or music from far away locales (Bossa > Nova). > The argument could be made that this was the end cap to a fabulous run. > Innovation had dispersed itself out into several areas including Rock and > Roll. > > At around this time, summarizers and consolidators became supreme (look at > Freddie Hubbard critically. . .he really is a consolidator of a fabulous > amount of great jazz, but doesn't pull or twist jazz into some entirely > new > direction--of course he's absolutely fabulous!). > > That same side of the argument would probably posit that the ready > availability of electric and electronic instruments moved jazz into an > area > that is no longer completely distinguishable as "jazz" (i.e. fusion, funk, > hyped-up blues, progressive). Lately, arguments would go, home > electronics > and home studios are moving things in new directions but without any "mass > movement", but many, many unique statements > > The counter to this, might be that jazz resurects itself in the hands of > players like those down in New Orleans who play drum and horn band sounds > at > parties. And it is not a forgone conclusion that jazz may yet be reborn > with > a real "movement" of immense proportions. But we don't know how that > could > happen. > > The above is not neccesarily my final opinion but rather a "train of > thought" which is hypothetical, based upon my understanding of jazz > history > (which is pretty good, mind you). > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" > > To: "Robert Holland" ; "Trb. List" > > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups > > >> Interesting. >> >> Do you think the age of the performer/composer/listener makes much >> difference? At my age nostalgia for the "good old days" is a significant >> component and I tend to want to hear things played close to the way they >> exist in my fond memories. When I was younger something fresh and >> original >> might have had much more weight. >> >> Might want to scan the audience before playing, at least estimate the >> percentage over 60. Of course, if you ever play for a square dance, >> you'll >> see a bifurcated distribution: everybody under 13 or over 60. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Holland [mailto:briar@rcn.com] >> >> >> Jazz may be unusual in the respect that the edge goes to the innovators, >> at >> least until that point where they are transformed by age into summarizers >> (Armstrong, Ellington, Gillespie). Jazz has always been a restless art, >> changing continuously before anything had time to settle and be >> summarized. >> However, lots of musicians approach jazz as summarizers. It's a mindset. >> And >> the audience may sometimes demand it for any number of reasons. >> >> Robert Holland, Publisher >> Briar Music Press >> briar@rcn.com >> www.briarmusic.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:43:49 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups To: Chris Tune Cc: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" , "Trb. List" Message-ID: <37E09A7E-1964-4852-91EB-DE8436E010EA@jeffalbert.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jan 27, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Chris Tune wrote: > > At around this time, summarizers and consolidators became supreme > (look at > Freddie Hubbard critically. . .he really is a consolidator of a > fabulous > amount of great jazz, but doesn't pull or twist jazz into some > entirely new > direction--of course he's absolutely fabulous!). I don't think anyone was saying that every gig or player has to "pull or twist jazz into some entirely new direction." The point is that Freddie didn't just play Lee Morgan tunes with Lee Morgan's arrangements. Freddie played Freddie, which came out of Lee Morgan, but it wasn't just an imitation. Jeff ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:53:51 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups To: Message-ID: <20060127165242.PFCV20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Recently I have rediscovered my Jazz Crusaders at the Lighthouse 66 & 68. One of my favorite tracks is their version of Coltranes' Impressions. Obviously the tune is recognizeable, but it has their own twist on the head. It reminded me of something James Taylor once said when asked about old tunes and covers: Only if we can do it in a new way that is musically pleasing (paraphrased) ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:58:42 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Commerce vs. Art Bebop Groups To: Chris Tune Cc: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW" , "Trb. List" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > An argument can be made that Jazz was primarily innovative and "restless" > during its first fifty or sixty years of life, but after that (once avante > garde jazz and "free jazz" had come down) the innovation began to twist in > strains of other types of music or music from far away locales (Bossa Nova). > The argument could be made that this was the end cap to a fabulous run. > Innovation had dispersed itself out into several areas including Rock and > Roll. One could also make the argument that innovators have always been a tiny minority in jazz. Louis Armstrong was still selling well (in concerts and recordings) long after bebop, and bebop was still selling well into the "fusion" era. As much as innovators make history in jazz, audiences rarely reward innovation directly. George ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:58:49 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: [Trombone-l] Finally, our prayers are answered To: Trombones and related issues forum Message-ID: <20060127175849.14418.qmail@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 http://cgi.ebay.com/Hypnosis-CD-Learn-Trombone-Easy-Effective-Automatic_W0QQitemZ7002281027QQcategoryZ29792QQcmdZViewItem Gabe Langfur Boston, MA ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 26 ******************************************