Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 18 Date: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 18 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (JFBermann@aol.com) 2. Bucket Mutes (Steve Marcus) 3. Re: Bucket Mutes (George Carr) 4. Bass trombone for sale (Alisha Ard) 5. Re: Math question (J. Mark Thompson) 6. Re: Math question (Tom Izzo) 7. Re: Math question (David A. Schwartz) 8. Re: Math question (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 9. Re: Math question (Mikel K. Smith) 10. Re: Math question (Pat McFarland) 11. Re: Math question (Wayne Dyess) 12. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (Charles De Paolo) 13. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (eliezer aharoni) 14. Re: Math question (Daryl Burch) 15. Junk Mail (Bill Dinwiddie) 16. hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. (Bill Dinwiddie) 17. Re: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss (Raymond Horton) 18. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (Earl Needham) 19. medium shanks (Tom Stark) 20. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 21. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 22. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 23. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (James Winchell) 24. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 25. Re: Math question (Daniel Pliskin) 26. shameless self-promotion (Robert Holland) 27. Re: Math question (Chris Tune) 28. Re: Bass Trombone with Band (Adrian Drover) 29. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (Adrian Drover) 30. Re: medium shanks (Lisa & Patrick Bates) 31. Re: medium shanks (John Burton) 32. Re: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss (Keith Marr) 33. trumpet duet (Jeff Albert) 34. Re: trumpet duet (Steve Gamble) 35. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (George Carr) 36. FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss (Eric Edwards) 37. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (Atlbrvsnt@aol.com) 38. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (Adrian Drover) 39. Re: FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss (Simon Bailey) 40. Re: Math question (Bill Langston) 41. Re: medium shanks (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 42. Re: FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 43. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 44. Re: trumpet duet (Chris Tune) 45. Re: FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss (Eric Edwards) 46. Re: Any Home Recordist / Home Studio folk out there. . . (Chris Tune) 47. Re: Trumpet Duet (Bill Dinwiddie) 48. Re: Any Home Recordist / Home Studio folk out there. . . (Moran, Doug) 49. Re: Trumpet Duet (Bill Langston) 50. Re: Trumpet Duet (George Carr) 51. Re: medium shanks (Fred Hudson) 52. Re: Eb crook for bass bone (emrose79) 53. Re: Trumpet Duet (Bill Dinwiddie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:10:17 EST From: JFBermann@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <29f.3e32067.30ffec99@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" When I purchased my first Bach bass I was puzzled that the "Eb" using both valves was so out of tune. Lloyd Fillio who was head of the Bach's brass at the time told me it really wasn't an "Eb" but a flat "E", enought to get a low B natural in tune. At that point I had a D slide made and never looked back Jim Bermann ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:30:10 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Marcus Subject: [Trombone-l] Bucket Mutes To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060118193011.25413.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 If a score specifies bucket mutes for trombones, is there a viable alternative (cup mute, etc.) , or must the the players purchase actual bucket mutes? Steve Marcus http://www.geocities.com/semarcus1/Steve_Marcus.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:36:31 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Bucket Mutes To: Steve Marcus Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There are several types of "bucket mute" but no other mute will sound like it. If it's a one-time gig, and you don't think it's worth buying a bucket mute, I suggest making one of the cheaper, beret-style bucket mutes. Hickey's sells the basic stonelined bucket mute for $25 and the fabric one (which UMI calls Softone) for $41, on this page: http://www.hickeys.com/cgi/display.cgi?cart_id=&page=btmute.htm I think many players just make their own fabric mutes, using a thrift-store beret and some wadded cotton. I've never done it, but there's bound to be folks on this list that can give specific advice. George On 1/18/06, Steve Marcus wrote: > If a score specifies bucket mutes for trombones, is > there a viable alternative (cup mute, etc.) , or must > the the players purchase actual bucket mutes? ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:43:29 +0300 From: Alisha Ard Subject: [Trombone-l] Bass trombone for sale To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r I have a Bach Stradavarius 50B for sale. Here are the details: Double trigger (F and E) closed wrap, rotary valves 9 1/2" bell .560" single bore slide Serial #129535 It has been professionally overhauled here in Los Angeles (all dents removed, slide realigned, chemically cleaned) and it plays great. It has seen some wear and tear on the lacquer, but nothing that affects the sound. It comes with the original hard case, but as it is in pretty bad shape, I will include a brand new gig bag for free. I'm asking $1600 obo. If you're in the area (Los Angeles) you're welcome to try it out. I can also email pictures. Just email me directly! Thanks, Alisha alishamarie@mail.ru ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:53:59 -0600 From: "J. Mark Thompson" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Just digging around in my Anthony Baines Brass Instruments, I found a table that specifies the tube length in centimeters. This chart is based upon 200 cm. for a fundamental of E-flat and a ratio of 100:94 per semitone difference which yields an approximate value to the pitch at A-440. Mouthpiece length is not included. E-flat Alto = 200 cm. B-flat Tenor = 270 cm. ("9-foot") F Bass = 369 cm. ("12-foot") B-flat Contrabass = 563 cm. ("18-foot") This does not seem to support the conventional wisdom that for each doubling of tube length the fundamental is lowered an octave, like the 8' to 16' B-flat, or 6' to 12' F would suggest. One way to try this out on the cheap is to use a similar-sized length of clear vinyl tubing before you commit to the brass tubing! JMT >Very cool website. > >Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little closer >- within an inch or so. > >Hmmm.... > >J.c.S. > > >---- George Carr wrote: >> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you >> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone >> design: >> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ >> >> George >> >> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: >> > Okay physics/tech folks... >> > >> > How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F >>contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these things, >>with very good success. Can't this time... >> > >> > J.c.S. -- Dr. J. Mark Thompson, NCTM Professor of Music, Trombone and Low Brass, Northwestern State University Editor, Solos for the Student Trombonist, 2d ed. (http://www.editions-bim.com) o(318)357-5791 f(318)357-5906 ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:26:36 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: thetubameister@adelphia.net, trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060118202636.43181.qmail@web52715.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > Okay physics/tech folks... > > How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve > on an F contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I > usually eyeball these things, with very good > success. Can't this time... > hahahahahaaha Measure the length of the Bb valve on an Eb Alto divide by 4 & multiply by 10 (multiplying by 5, then doubling for the octave). It should get you an approximation. Tom > J.c.S. > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Timpani & Percussion. http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 858-7832 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:36:12 -0500 From: "David A. Schwartz" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <43CEA6BC.1030906@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Tom Izzo wrote: >--- thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > > >>Okay physics/tech folks... >> >>How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve >>on an F contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I >>usually eyeball these things, with very good >>success. Can't this time... >> >> >> >hahahahahaaha > >Measure the length of the Bb valve on an Eb Alto >divide by 4 & multiply by 10 (multiplying by 5, then >doubling for the octave). It should get you an >approximation. > >Tom > > Easier still: Play F on a tenor trombone. Gliss to about 8th position so B-flat is played. Extend tuning slide as needed. Measure the total slide extension from F to B-flat. David ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:49:02 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: "J. Mark Thompson" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <17618788.1137617342993.JavaMail.root@web14.mail.adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Woaw dude! That's 2 yards, 4.37 inches. That's long! Where the heck am I gonna fold that much plumbing?! J.c.S. (who misplaced his Eb/Bb Alto, and sold his 8 position F trombone :-) ---- "J. Mark Thompson" wrote: > Just digging around in my Anthony Baines Brass Instruments, I found a > table that specifies the tube length in centimeters. This chart is > based upon 200 cm. for a fundamental of E-flat and a ratio of 100:94 > per semitone difference which yields an approximate value to the > pitch at A-440. Mouthpiece length is not included. > > E-flat Alto = 200 cm. > B-flat Tenor = 270 cm. ("9-foot") > F Bass = 369 cm. ("12-foot") > B-flat Contrabass = 563 cm. ("18-foot") > > This does not seem to support the conventional wisdom that for each > doubling of tube length the fundamental is lowered an octave, like > the 8' to 16' B-flat, or 6' to 12' F would suggest. > > One way to try this out on the cheap is to use a similar-sized length > of clear vinyl tubing before you commit to the brass tubing! > > JMT > > > >Very cool website. > > > >Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little closer > >- within an inch or so. > > > >Hmmm.... > > > >J.c.S. > > > > > >---- George Carr wrote: > >> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you > >> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone > >> design: > >> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ > >> > >> George > >> > >> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > >> > Okay physics/tech folks... > >> > > >> > How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F > >>contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these things, > >>with very good success. Can't this time... > >> > > >> > J.c.S. > > > -- > Dr. J. Mark Thompson, NCTM > Professor of Music, Trombone and Low Brass, Northwestern State University > Editor, Solos for the Student Trombonist, 2d ed. (http://www.editions-bim.com) > o(318)357-5791 f(318)357-5906 > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:17:56 -0500 From: "Mikel K. Smith" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: , "George Carr" Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Haven't done this, but had been thinking of something similar (making an old Eb sousaphone into a Bb). My idea is to buy polyvinyl tubing of the appropriate diameter, a little longer than calculated, then use a tuner and trim it back until it's in tune. Cut your brass an inch or so longer, and then trim it back into tune. Mikel -----Original Message----- From: thetubameister@adelphia.net [mailto:thetubameister@adelphia.net] Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little closer - within an inch or so. Hmmm.... J.c.S. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:49:23 -0600 From: "Pat McFarland" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: , Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060118223533.65318190149@nothing.midiowa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Forgive the theory, I'm an engineer... As a generalization and to get you in the ballpark (using the mathematics of the tempered scale)... You are looking for the ratio of F to BBb, right? If an octave lower is twice the length and twelve 1/2-steps equals an octave, then the ratio of tubing for a 1/2-step lower is the 12th root of two which is @ 1.05946309. A perfect fifth is seven 1/2 steps. The 12th root of two multiplied by itself 7 times results in 1.49830708. Multiply this by the original tube length and you have 12 X (2^(1/2)^7) = 17.97968 ft. This is, of course, the tempered perfect fifth. Everyone's previous calculation of 18 ft. is correct for a "real" perfect fifth. Pat McFarland -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Eric & Candice Swanson Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:33 AM To: thetubameister@adelphia.net Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: >Okay physics/tech folks... > >How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these things, with very good success. Can't this time... > > > J.c., I'll take a stab at it. The F horn is what, 12 feet long, right? The BBb horn is 18 feet, right? Correct me if I'm wrong. That would mean you would need somewhere around 6 feet to lower F to BBb. Of course I may be off, but it would be my guess. Plus, I need pictures of whatever it is you're building!!!!!! Eric Swanson _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:19:05 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: thetubameister@adelphia.net Cc: Bone List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Speaking of websites: Does he get paid for doubling? Click to watch: Trumpet Duet Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? How's about it Tom?? Game??? Wayne Dyess If you click on the above link and it doesn't take you to the site, then copy & paste this into your browser and try that. Funny bit. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= -1156414669221185353&q=trumpet&pr=goog-sl On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:34 AM, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > Very cool website. > > Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little closer - > within an inch or so. > > Hmmm.... > > J.c.S. > > > ---- George Carr wrote: >> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you >> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone >> design: >> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ >> >> George >> >> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net >> wrote: >>> Okay physics/tech folks... >>> >>> How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F >>> contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these things, >>> with very good success. Can't this time... >>> >>> J.c.S. > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:42:20 -0500 From: "Charles De Paolo" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: Message-ID: <01f701c61c91$3933f5a0$1e00a8c0@Road1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > When I purchased my first Bach bass I was puzzled that > the "Eb" using both valves was so out of tune. Lloyd Fillio > who was head of the Bach's brass at the time told me it > really wasn't an "Eb" but a flat "E", enought to get a low > B natural in tune. At that point I had a D slide made and > never looked back Indeed, the fact that early models were furnished with "flat E" and Eb slides makes sense, when one considers from whence they came. The original dual trigger instrument was a dependant setup tuned to F/E. I think Allen Ostrander was the one who convinced the Conn company to make one for him. The second trigger was a true "one note wonder," as it was only intended to allow the playing of low B. It was basically a shortcut for having to pull out the F slide, play B and then push the thing back in. For all intents and purposes, the horn was a single trigger unit with a half step shortcut that just happened to be operated by a second trigger. Later, someone got the idea to make the second trigger a whole step (Eb) or near-so (flat E) instead. This made it more useful. With the Eb setups, one could now play a common note (Eb) in first posiition, as well as obtain low B a little easier, now that it was in 6th-something rather than south of 7th. When independant horns came on the market, all that was done was move the whole step valve out of the F tubing and onto the main line behind the F valve. By itself the valve become known as the G valve. Two triggers down still gave Eb in first, but now the second trigger could be used by itself. Having a G valve added a great deal of facility for those brave enough to use it alone. Many players at this time were still wed to the idea of the second valve only being used in conjuntion with the first valve.. Still later, someone figured out that by lowering yet again the second valve to a minor third "Gb" tuning gave even more facility. The two together give D. This is today's common tuning and the one provided stock by all manufacturers. More people use the second valve alone these days as well. As mentioned previously, with this setup, low B is closer, C & F are located in a nicer place, and low D is now in first position. What's next? It seems silly to lower the second valve yet again to F, since we already have F in the first valve. Maybe a third valve? Maybe a brainwave activated logic-solenoid 3-valve system with GPS and built-in DVD? Who knows? --Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: JFBermann@aol.com To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone When I purchased my first Bach bass I was puzzled that the "Eb" using both valves was so out of tune. Lloyd Fillio who was head of the Bach's brass at the time told me it really wasn't an "Eb" but a flat "E", enought to get a low B natural in tune. At that point I had a D slide made and never looked back Jim Bermann _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:18:42 +0300 From: eanogmus@netvision.net.il (eliezer aharoni) Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Listers The title "Eb crook for bass bone" is rather misleading as it can meam one of four things: 1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood as the topic in question: Personally, I liked this setup better when I played double valve as I feel it's more flexible for me, I had more use for G in first position than for Gb; It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; and the horn is lighter that way. 2. Stack valves (side by side) with second valve in Eb. Before in lines horns were made "non-independent"primarily in flat E, then developed to Eb, then to D. Some horns are still made today in this setup.I used to play one like that (first a Holton then a Bach) with Eb crook and liked it for the same reasons. 3. A single valve with Eb crook: This is a very nice option for single valve players. You loose all "shortcuts" like C & F in 1st, B & E in 2nd, but you gain a very clear sound and lo C and B nat's are much cleaner and in tune. I actually think every "single-valver" must have one in his case... 4. Eb crook on second valve, putting both valve in C: this has some advantages too, and some people uswe it, but is extremely heavy and makes your hand and shoulder tired after rather a short while/ All advantages and disadvantages for each setup are discussed thoroughly in my "New Method for Bass Trombone" including charts, specially taylored studies for each valve setup and introduction to each setup's glissando possibilities. Eliezer Aharoni Former Bass Trombonist, Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra Author: New Method for the Modern Bass Trombone Avilable from Hickey's (USA) Warwick, MusT (England) POB 4025, Jerusalem ISRAEL 91040 Phone ++972 2 5341333 cell 0524 868866 ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:03:11 -0800 From: Daryl Burch Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: Wayne Dyess Cc: Bone List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed That's pure 100% Grade A pork product! #;-) Cheers! -D- www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-) On Jan 18, 2006, at 4:19 PM, Wayne Dyess wrote: > Speaking of websites: > > Does he get paid for doubling? > Click to watch: Trumpet Duet > Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. > > > We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... > Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? How's > about it Tom?? Game??? > Wayne Dyess > > > If you click on the above link and it doesn't take you to the site, > then copy & paste this into your browser and try that. > Funny bit. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= > -1156414669221185353&q=trumpet&pr=goog-sl > > > > > On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:34 AM, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > >> Very cool website. >> >> Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little closer - >> within an inch or so. >> >> Hmmm.... >> >> J.c.S. >> >> >> ---- George Carr wrote: >>> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you >>> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone >>> design: >>> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ >>> >>> George >>> >>> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net >>> wrote: >>>> Okay physics/tech folks... >>>> >>>> How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F >>>> contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these things, >>>> with very good success. Can't this time... >>>> >>>> J.c.S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:53:36 -0600 From: "Bill Dinwiddie" Subject: [Trombone-l] Junk Mail To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <004e01c61c9b$297e27c0$0a00a8c0@av> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Is anyone, besides me, getting junk mail that is obviously being sent to members of the List? I just received some mail which consists of nothing (I hope) but the addresses of people, many of whom are on the List. I recognize some of the names of list members, but I do not want to include the content of the mail because that might just spread it further. The "author" of this mail is some one using the address mark.wilton@virgilio.it. I hope the addresses of those of us who subscribe to this List are being adequately protected from junk mailers. Thanks, Bill Dinwiddie ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:08:10 -0600 From: "Bill Dinwiddie" Subject: [Trombone-l] hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <006901c61c9d$32b76200$0a00a8c0@av> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Wayne wrote: Does he get paid for doubling? Click to watch: Trumpet Duet Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? How's about it Tom?? Game??? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1156414669221185353&q=trumpet&pr=goog-sl ************************************************** Wayne, that is really great. I was with him almost all the way. If the link splits in the middle, try pasting the two halves into your browser. Bill Dinwiddie ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:56:58 -0500 From: Raymond Horton Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <43CEFFFA.30000@insightbb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed eliezer aharoni wrote: >... >1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood as >the topic in question: ... > It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is >less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; ... > > Here is the way to get the absolute best Bartok gliss ever, short of going the Doug Yeo route and having an F bass trombone made: You'll need two things ahead of time: 1) An F tuning slide slide on your valve long enough to pull to flat E (if you don't, have one, get one made, they can are very handy, even with a double valve). 2) A cooperative tuba player next to you. (He/she has to play a few bars after you do, after all.) You'll need to practice this with the tuba player a few times. Grease up the F slide as slick as possible - clean it well, then use vaseline and a light coat of valve oil (or whatever works for you). Pull it out for the low.B. Start the low B with the slide out all the way, and have the tubist push the slide in while you gliss up to the F. The tubist will need to prop up his/her horn while using two hands - just pushing the slide in with one hand, (i. e. pushing the horn forward, off of your mouth) won't work! The desciption sounds crazy, but it's amazing how well this can work and how great it can sound to finally not have a break in the middle! (I haven't tried this for the same gliss in the Mandarin, though. Might be a bit more complicated!) Legend has it that Lewis Van Haney played it in a similar fashion on one valve with a string from his fingers to the end of his valve tuning slide when he filled at bass trombone in the NY Phil, many years ago. I can't visualize it - maybe he locked the valve down so his left thumb was free. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:53:21 -0700 From: Earl Needham Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20060118195259.0273f8e0@email.plateautel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:15 AM 1/18/2006, Paul Johnston wrote: >For us old guys, and you can correct me if I am wrong, wasn't Eb tuning the >original standard for production inline horns? I thought it was E, but I could easily be dreaming. But come to think of it, we had a Conn Bass Trombone at Texas A&I in 1974 or so, it had two valves, and they were in F and E. I played that horn a while, but it was pretty stuffy and I finally got something else, HALLELUJAH! Let me also say that the later D tuning is far superior. In my opinion, of course... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis Electronics" on it) Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:18:15 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Stark Subject: [Trombone-l] medium shanks To: Trombone Message-ID: <20060119031815.41108.qmail@web53214.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello, Does anyone know the actual dimensions and/or rate of taper for a "European" style medium shank? i.e. what diameter is it supposed to measure at the small end, and one inch up? Thanks in advance!! Tom ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:31:32 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: eliezer aharoni Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <4260693.1137641492100.JavaMail.root@web14.mail.adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Before Doug Yeo joined Boston, he wrote a terrific article "In defense of the single valve bass" or some such. He argued for and Eb slide in his single valve thayer as an alternate to the F slide. I'm finishing a lightweight bass with and F valve which can be pulled out to Eb (yes, it can be done!). I wanted it because I used to have a terrific Reynolds "tangerine" with an Eb valve, and it absolutely rocked. But it stinks to lose the dexterity of F, but having both options should prove handy. Oh, and some older basses were built with just and E valve. Play with this sometime - it's actually not insane... J.c.S. ---- eliezer aharoni wrote: > Hi Listers > The title "Eb crook for bass bone" is rather misleading as it can meam one > of four things: > 1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood as > the topic in question: > Personally, I liked this setup better when I played double valve as I feel > it's more flexible for me, I had more use for G in first position than for > Gb; It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is > less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; and the horn is > lighter that way. > > 2. Stack valves (side by side) with second valve in Eb. Before in lines > horns were made "non-independent"primarily in flat E, then developed to Eb, > then to D. Some horns are still made today in this setup.I used to play one > like that (first a Holton then a Bach) with Eb crook and liked it for the > same reasons. > > 3. A single valve with Eb crook: This is a very nice option for single > valve players. You loose all "shortcuts" like C & F in 1st, B & E in 2nd, > but you gain a very clear sound and lo C and B nat's are much cleaner and > in tune. I actually think every "single-valver" must have one in his > case... > > 4. Eb crook on second valve, putting both valve in C: this has some > advantages too, and some people uswe it, but is extremely heavy and makes > your hand and shoulder tired after rather a short while/ > > > All advantages and disadvantages for each setup are discussed thoroughly in > my "New Method for Bass Trombone" including charts, specially taylored > studies for each valve setup and introduction to each setup's glissando > possibilities. > > Eliezer Aharoni > Former Bass Trombonist, Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra > Author: New Method for the Modern Bass Trombone > Avilable from Hickey's (USA) Warwick, MusT (England) > POB 4025, Jerusalem ISRAEL 91040 > Phone ++972 2 5341333 cell 0524 868866 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:38:16 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: Earl Needham Cc: trombone-L@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <14735490.1137641896045.JavaMail.root@web14.mail.adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 These older Conns hav e two "stuffy" problems 1) Remington receiver venturi, and 2) horrible taper on the slide receiver J.c.S. ---- Earl Needham wrote: > At 09:15 AM 1/18/2006, Paul Johnston wrote: > >For us old guys, and you can correct me if I am wrong, wasn't Eb tuning the > >original standard for production inline horns? > > I thought it was E, but I could easily be dreaming. > > But come to think of it, we had a Conn Bass Trombone at Texas A&I > in 1974 or so, it had two valves, and they were in F and E. I played that > horn a while, but it was pretty stuffy and I finally got something else, > HALLELUJAH! > > Let me also say that the later D tuning is far superior. In my > opinion, of course... > > Earl > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > > Looking for one MasterMobile 20-meter coil (might say "Davis Electronics" > on it) > > Say NO to unbranded junk -- insist on an original TRISTAR! > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:41:01 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: thetubameister@adelphia.net Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <30116466.1137642061514.JavaMail.root@web14.mail.adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 BTW - did anyone notice that Edwards now offers an Eb slide for their tenor (wish it was for the single valve Bass... J.c.S. ---- thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > Before Doug Yeo joined Boston, he wrote a terrific article "In defense of the single valve bass" or some such. He argued for and Eb slide in his single valve thayer as an alternate to the F slide. > > I'm finishing a lightweight bass with and F valve which can be pulled out to Eb (yes, it can be done!). I wanted it because I used to have a terrific Reynolds "tangerine" with an Eb valve, and it absolutely rocked. But it stinks to lose the dexterity of F, but having both options should prove handy. > > Oh, and some older basses were built with just and E valve. Play with this sometime - it's actually not insane... > > J.c.S. > ---- eliezer aharoni wrote: > > Hi Listers > > The title "Eb crook for bass bone" is rather misleading as it can meam one > > of four things: > > 1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood as > > the topic in question: > > Personally, I liked this setup better when I played double valve as I feel > > it's more flexible for me, I had more use for G in first position than for > > Gb; It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is > > less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; and the horn is > > lighter that way. > > > > 2. Stack valves (side by side) with second valve in Eb. Before in lines > > horns were made "non-independent"primarily in flat E, then developed to Eb, > > then to D. Some horns are still made today in this setup.I used to play one > > like that (first a Holton then a Bach) with Eb crook and liked it for the > > same reasons. > > > > 3. A single valve with Eb crook: This is a very nice option for single > > valve players. You loose all "shortcuts" like C & F in 1st, B & E in 2nd, > > but you gain a very clear sound and lo C and B nat's are much cleaner and > > in tune. I actually think every "single-valver" must have one in his > > case... > > > > 4. Eb crook on second valve, putting both valve in C: this has some > > advantages too, and some people uswe it, but is extremely heavy and makes > > your hand and shoulder tired after rather a short while/ > > > > > > All advantages and disadvantages for each setup are discussed thoroughly in > > my "New Method for Bass Trombone" including charts, specially taylored > > studies for each valve setup and introduction to each setup's glissando > > possibilities. > > > > Eliezer Aharoni > > Former Bass Trombonist, Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra > > Author: New Method for the Modern Bass Trombone > > Avilable from Hickey's (USA) Warwick, MusT (England) > > POB 4025, Jerusalem ISRAEL 91040 > > Phone ++972 2 5341333 cell 0524 868866 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:01:09 -0800 From: "James Winchell" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: Message-ID: <20060119040111.ZKWP17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@MERJWIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think a lot of people (on an independent system) like the Gb valve because it offers the low D in 1st, and makes the low B, etc. closer in on the slide, and other things in the double valve register. I also think a lot of people favor the G valve (primarily when used alone) in higher registers than the double valve register because of more useful positions. I might be wrong but this is just my impression. So here's an idea that I've heard a few times and I like the sound of it: What if you were to have the primary valve (on the thumb trigger) be a G valve, and the second valve be a slightly sharp E valve? To the best of my knowledge this setup was originally thought up by Alan Charlesworth of San Diego, CA. And instead of getting a horn custome made to this, it wouldn't be too difficult to just pull an F valve out a bit to #E, and then change the linkage so the valves go to the opposite triggers. This combination would give all the advantages in middle and higher registers of the G valve, while still giving the lower (double valve) register advantages of the Gb valve as together they would combine to produce a low D in 1st, just as the F/Gb setup would. In my opinion this would be much more useful than either F/G or F/Gb for all around use of the valves in different registers. Any input? James Winchell ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 0:08:33 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: James Winchell Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <21778102.1137647313578.JavaMail.root@web11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 There was an Akron bassed firm which presented at the '94 ITEA; Tenorex, I think. I think they tried it, and it played just like you think. However, it didn;t catch because it's too different from what everyone has learned. J.c.S. ---- James Winchell wrote: > I think a lot of people (on an independent system) like the Gb valve because > it offers the low D in 1st, and makes the low B, etc. closer in on the > slide, and other things in the double valve register. I also think a lot of > people favor the G valve (primarily when used alone) in higher registers > than the double valve register because of more useful positions. I might be > wrong but this is just my impression. > > So here's an idea that I've heard a few times and I like the sound of it: > What if you were to have the primary valve (on the thumb trigger) be a G > valve, and the second valve be a slightly sharp E valve? To the best of my > knowledge this setup was originally thought up by Alan Charlesworth of San > Diego, CA. And instead of getting a horn custome made to this, it wouldn't > be too difficult to just pull an F valve out a bit to #E, and then change > the linkage so the valves go to the opposite triggers. This combination > would give all the advantages in middle and higher registers of the G valve, > while still giving the lower (double valve) register advantages of the Gb > valve as together they would combine to produce a low D in 1st, just as the > F/Gb setup would. In my opinion this would be much more useful than either > F/G or F/Gb for all around use of the valves in different registers. Any > input? > > > James Winchell > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:52:37 +0000 From: "Daniel Pliskin" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Forgive the theory, I'm an engineer... > >As a generalization and to get you in the ballpark (using the mathematics >of >the tempered scale)... You are looking for the ratio of F to BBb, right? >If an octave lower is twice the length and twelve 1/2-steps equals an >octave, then the ratio of tubing for a 1/2-step lower is the 12th root of >two which is @ 1.05946309. A perfect fifth is seven 1/2 steps. The 12th >root of two multiplied by itself 7 times results in 1.49830708. Multiply >this by the original tube length and you have 12 X (2^(1/2)^7) = 17.97968 >ft. This is, of course, the tempered perfect fifth. Everyone's previous >calculation of 18 ft. is correct for a "real" perfect fifth. > Thanks Pat, now I don't have to answer the thread. But I do want to add that the math gets a bit off, when considering the bell flair. It's best, as someone else mentioned, to start out with a trombone that's considerably longer than the calculated length. Then you get to cut it down, until it's exactly the right length. My alto sackbutt is in tune, but it's an inch or two longer than my calculated value for an Eb instrument. DanP ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:24:14 -0600 From: Robert Holland Subject: [Trombone-l] shameless self-promotion To: "Trb. List" Message-ID: <19c994bb7dfeb408a688a05f44e6eea9@rcn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I want to announce that Briar Music Press has a new website. (see www.briarmusic.com) There are a few mp3 samples of commercial recordings, the complete catalog with descriptions of the editions available, an ordering page, and a summary of reviews published in the ITA Journal and the On-Line Trombone Journal. Please have a look and send your questions or leave your comments on the site as you wish. I'm normally disinclined to push and pump my wares and website by spamming the list, so please excuse this one message, which is offered in the spirit of providing a general announcement to those who may logically be interested parties. In the interest of balance, let me also point to the websites of a couple of my competitors that get little mention or traction on this listserv: www.hip-bonemusic.com www.firebirdeditions.com If you can't find something interesting and worthwhile on one of these three sites, I insist you aren't looking hard enough. Thanks for your attention. Robert Holland, Publisher Briar Music Press briar@rcn.com www.briarmusic.com ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:53:55 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: "Wayne Dyess" , Cc: Bone List Message-ID: <016e01c61cc5$1dbf2900$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Not to rain on the parade . . .(and I totally dig this act!) . . . I assume the first part he literally IS playing both trumpet parts (and that is pretty impressive) . . but the later stuff is just trumpets on tape . . .otherwise I'm looking at a guy who can use his nostrils to play trumpet (hey. . .maybe that explains some of the sounds I hear coming out from behind me in some of these groups. .) What is this? Never on Sunday? I'm trying to remember if that's this tune. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Dyess" To: Cc: "Bone List" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question > Speaking of websites: > > Does he get paid for doubling? > Click to watch: Trumpet Duet > Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. > > > We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... > Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? How's > about it Tom?? Game??? > Wayne Dyess > > > If you click on the above link and it doesn't take you to the site, > then copy & paste this into your browser and try that. > Funny bit. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= > -1156414669221185353&q=trumpet&pr=goog-sl > > > > > On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:34 AM, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > >> Very cool website. >> >> Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little closer - >> within an inch or so. >> >> Hmmm.... >> >> J.c.S. >> >> >> ---- George Carr wrote: >>> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you >>> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone >>> design: >>> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ >>> >>> George >>> >>> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net >>> wrote: >>>> Okay physics/tech folks... >>>> >>>> How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F >>>> contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these things, >>>> with very good success. Can't this time... >>>> >>>> J.c.S. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:50:22 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Bass Trombone with Band To: "'Christopher Hayes'" , Message-ID: <003201c61cdd$c3f82ed0$0100a8c0@Adrian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > From: Christopher Hayes > > I am looking for a piece to do with bass trombone and band. It is a > community band, so I need something that would be appropriate in that > setting. Any suggestions are appreciated. If you are looking for something light, you could try my "Mr. Nice Guy" (concert band version). Check my web site www.adios.co.uk for audio excerpt of Doug Yeo's brass band recording of this tune. A. ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:55:01 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: "'Keith Marr'" , "'Trombone List'" Message-ID: <003301c61cde$6b2b6000$0100a8c0@Adrian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > From: Keith Marr > > The original TR181 was Bb/F/G/Eb. I think even today (the one I used to > have > wasn't all that old) the second valve slide is in 2 pieces. You remove the > middle piece and the 2nd valve is back into G from Gb. I had to get an inch or so cut off my Gb extension to be able to play Gb & Db in first position. Don't know why Holton made it so long. A. ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:01:38 -0500 From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] medium shanks To: "Trombone" Message-ID: <002001c61ce7$b97f7940$0b885fd8@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Good question! I'll add to it. Anyone know where someone could get one "off the shelf"? Our local community band had a horn donated that needs one, and I'm the only guy in the area that had half a clue what the problem was! Something mainstream that I can get through a local dealer would be nice............ Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Stark" To: "Trombone" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:18 PM Subject: [Trombone-l] medium shanks > Hello, > Does anyone know the actual dimensions and/or rate of taper for a "European" style medium shank? i.e. what diameter is it supposed to measure at the small end, and one inch up? > > Thanks in advance!! > Tom > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:10:32 -0500 From: "John Burton" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] medium shanks To: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" , "Trombone" Message-ID: <2C761FD6AEB2B640BF5524B1DD167C9D5BF5@centralstorage.johnburton.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sounds like a task for "http://www.MouthPieceExpress.com". I've done a lot of business thru them, and always pleased. Somewhat along the same lines, I've found that they're willing to send a Schlike up to Carl and have him turn the shank to fit my Bach receiver prior to sending it on to me; presuming I ask first! Give 'em a look, and if you don't see what you're looking for, ask. They've got a good customer service dept as well. ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= john burton Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra South Charleston, West Virginia > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu > [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Lisa & > Patrick Bates > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:02 AM > To: Trombone > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] medium shanks > > Good question! I'll add to it. Anyone know where someone > could get one "off the shelf"? Our local community band had a > horn donated that needs one, and I'm the only guy in the area > that had half a clue what the problem was! > Something mainstream that I can get through a local dealer > would be nice............ > Patrick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Stark" > To: "Trombone" > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:18 PM > Subject: [Trombone-l] medium shanks > > > > Hello, > > Does anyone know the actual dimensions and/or rate of taper for a > "European" style medium shank? i.e. what diameter is it > supposed to measure > at the small end, and one inch up? > > > > Thanks in advance!! > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:08:31 -0000 From: "Keith Marr" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss To: "Raymond Horton" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original The way I was taught to do the Bartok gliss actually works better on the Bb/F/E dependent system. (1) both valves down and sound the B (2) release the 2nd valve at the same time as starting the gliss. It's the only thing I've found that Bb/F/E works better for than my Bb/F/D setup. When I was using the Holton 181 I used to remove the Gb extension from the 2nd valve to set it up to Bb/F/G/Eb. This wasn't quite as good but still better than the standard setup. The idea is put the B as far out on the slide as possible so that there's plenty of time during the slide glissando to disguise the break that occurs when you release the 2nd valve. The German manufacturer Thein actually makes a Bb/F bass specifically to play this glissando. http://www.thein-brass.de/index_en.php gets you to an English version of their website. Look for the Bartok Bass in the trombone list. Seeing is believing! Some kind of pulley system I think. At 7000 euros i wonder how many they sell. Surely they'd be better just making the F bass which is missing from their range. Everything else there right up to piccolo Bb. Keith in Bb/F/D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Horton" Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:56 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss > eliezer aharoni wrote: > >>... >>1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood >>as >>the topic in question: ... >> It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is >>less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; ... >> >> > > Here is the way to get the absolute best Bartok gliss ever, short of > going the Doug Yeo route and having an F bass trombone made: > > > You'll need two things ahead of time: > > > 1) An F tuning slide slide on your valve long enough to pull to flat E > (if you don't, have one, get one made, they can are very handy, even > with a double valve). > > > 2) A cooperative tuba player next to you. (He/she has to play a few > bars after you do, after all.) > > > You'll need to practice this with the tuba player a few times. Grease > up the F slide as slick as possible - clean it well, then use vaseline > and a light coat of valve oil (or whatever works for you). Pull it out > for the low.B. Start the low B with the slide out all the way, and > have the tubist push the slide in while you gliss up to the F. The > tubist will need to prop up his/her horn while using two hands - just > pushing the slide in with one hand, (i. e. pushing the horn forward, off > of your mouth) won't work! > > > The desciption sounds crazy, but it's amazing how well this can work and > how great it can sound to finally not have a break in the middle! > > > (I haven't tried this for the same gliss in the Mandarin, though. Might > be a bit more complicated!) > > > Legend has it that Lewis Van Haney played it in a similar fashion on one > valve with a string from his fingers to the end of his valve tuning > slide when he filled at bass trombone in the NY Phil, many years ago. > I can't visualize it - maybe he locked the valve down so his left thumb > was free. > > > Raymond Horton > Bass Trombonist, > Louisville Orchestra > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:18:55 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: [Trombone-l] trumpet duet To: Chris Tune Cc: Bone List , Wayne Dyess Message-ID: <138F2827-4704-4E7E-9437-B4D2B3C8E6AD@jeffalbert.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed No, the whole thing is on tape. The trumpet tone is too good, and doesn't change at all through the course of him moving to two trumpets, then nostrils, etc, Jeff On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Chris Tune wrote: > Not to rain on the parade . . .(and I totally dig this act!) . . . > > I assume the first part he literally IS playing both trumpet parts > (and that > is pretty impressive) . . but the later stuff is just trumpets on > tape . . > .otherwise I'm looking at a guy who can use his nostrils to play > trumpet > (hey. . .maybe that explains some of the sounds I hear coming out from > behind me in some of these groups. .) > > What is this? Never on Sunday? I'm trying to remember if that's > this tune. > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Dyess" > To: > Cc: "Bone List" > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question > > >> Speaking of websites: >> >> Does he get paid for doubling? >> Click to watch: Trumpet Duet >> Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. >> >> >> We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... >> Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? >> How's >> about it Tom?? Game??? >> Wayne Dyess >> >> >> If you click on the above link and it doesn't take you to the site, >> then copy & paste this into your browser and try that. >> Funny bit. >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= >> -1156414669221185353&q=trumpet&pr=goog-sl >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:34 AM, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: >> >>> Very cool website. >>> >>> Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little >>> closer - >>> within an inch or so. >>> >>> Hmmm.... >>> >>> J.c.S. >>> >>> >>> ---- George Carr wrote: >>>> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you >>>> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone >>>> design: >>>> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ >>>> >>>> George >>>> >>>> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Okay physics/tech folks... >>>>> >>>>> How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F >>>>> contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these >>>>> things, >>>>> with very good success. Can't this time... >>>>> >>>>> J.c.S. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:50:35 -0700 From: "Steve Gamble" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] trumpet duet To: "Jeff Albert" Cc: Bone List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Of course this Ed fellow is pulling our leg. But...the last time I was in Manhattan standing in line to get cheap matinee tix for a show, there was a group playing with a guy who played jazz on his flugal horn and his trumpet at the same time...lots of notes with independent parts and all. The folks standing around didn't even seem to notice...nothing's a big deal in NY, I guess. But being from the boonies of the SW, I thought it was pretty good jazz and I was totally impressed. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Albert Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:19 AM To: Chris Tune Cc: Bone List; Wayne Dyess Subject: [Trombone-l] trumpet duet No, the whole thing is on tape. The trumpet tone is too good, and doesn't change at all through the course of him moving to two trumpets, then nostrils, etc, Jeff On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Chris Tune wrote: > Not to rain on the parade . . .(and I totally dig this act!) . . . > > I assume the first part he literally IS playing both trumpet parts > (and that > is pretty impressive) . . but the later stuff is just trumpets on > tape . . > .otherwise I'm looking at a guy who can use his nostrils to play > trumpet > (hey. . .maybe that explains some of the sounds I hear coming out from > behind me in some of these groups. .) > > What is this? Never on Sunday? I'm trying to remember if that's > this tune. > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Dyess" > To: > Cc: "Bone List" > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question > > >> Speaking of websites: >> >> Does he get paid for doubling? >> Click to watch: Trumpet Duet >> Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. >> >> >> We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... >> Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? >> How's >> about it Tom?? Game??? >> Wayne Dyess >> >> >> If you click on the above link and it doesn't take you to the site, >> then copy & paste this into your browser and try that. >> Funny bit. >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= >> -1156414669221185353&q=trumpet&pr=goog-sl >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:34 AM, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: >> >>> Very cool website. >>> >>> Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little >>> closer - >>> within an inch or so. >>> >>> Hmmm.... >>> >>> J.c.S. >>> >>> >>> ---- George Carr wrote: >>>> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you >>>> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone >>>> design: >>>> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ >>>> >>>> George >>>> >>>> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Okay physics/tech folks... >>>>> >>>>> How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F >>>>> contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these >>>>> things, >>>>> with very good success. Can't this time... >>>>> >>>>> J.c.S. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:04:25 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: Charles De Paolo Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > When independant horns came on the market, all that was done was move the whole step valve out of the F tubing and onto the main line behind the F valve. By itself the valve become known as the G valve. Two triggers down still gave Eb in first, but now the second trigger could be used by itself. Having a G valve added a great deal of facility for those brave enough to use it alone. Many players at this time were still wed to the idea of the second valve only being used in conjuntion with the first valve. > This is the historical part that confuses me. When the whole-step valve is independent, and used by itself, doesn't it shift the horn from Bb to Ab? Why is it called a G valve? George ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:28:45 -0600 From: "Eric Edwards" Subject: [Trombone-l] FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss To: "Trombone-L" Message-ID: <200601191428.k0JESJs8006079@server5.samford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK, my turn for a stupid question. What's the difference between an "F" bass and playing on the "F" trigger? Doesn't click in my mind at this point. Thanks Eric -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Keith Marr Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:09 AM To: Raymond Horton; trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss The way I was taught to do the Bartok gliss actually works better on the Bb/F/E dependent system. (1) both valves down and sound the B (2) release the 2nd valve at the same time as starting the gliss. It's the only thing I've found that Bb/F/E works better for than my Bb/F/D setup. When I was using the Holton 181 I used to remove the Gb extension from the 2nd valve to set it up to Bb/F/G/Eb. This wasn't quite as good but still better than the standard setup. The idea is put the B as far out on the slide as possible so that there's plenty of time during the slide glissando to disguise the break that occurs when you release the 2nd valve. The German manufacturer Thein actually makes a Bb/F bass specifically to play this glissando. http://www.thein-brass.de/index_en.php gets you to an English version of their website. Look for the Bartok Bass in the trombone list. Seeing is believing! Some kind of pulley system I think. At 7000 euros i wonder how many they sell. Surely they'd be better just making the F bass which is missing from their range. Everything else there right up to piccolo Bb. Keith in Bb/F/D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Horton" Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:56 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss > eliezer aharoni wrote: > >>... >>1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood >>as >>the topic in question: ... >> It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is >>less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; ... >> >> > > Here is the way to get the absolute best Bartok gliss ever, short of > going the Doug Yeo route and having an F bass trombone made: > > > You'll need two things ahead of time: > > > 1) An F tuning slide slide on your valve long enough to pull to flat E > (if you don't, have one, get one made, they can are very handy, even > with a double valve). > > > 2) A cooperative tuba player next to you. (He/she has to play a few > bars after you do, after all.) > > > You'll need to practice this with the tuba player a few times. Grease > up the F slide as slick as possible - clean it well, then use vaseline > and a light coat of valve oil (or whatever works for you). Pull it out > for the low.B. Start the low B with the slide out all the way, and > have the tubist push the slide in while you gliss up to the F. The > tubist will need to prop up his/her horn while using two hands - just > pushing the slide in with one hand, (i. e. pushing the horn forward, off > of your mouth) won't work! > > > The desciption sounds crazy, but it's amazing how well this can work and > how great it can sound to finally not have a break in the middle! > > > (I haven't tried this for the same gliss in the Mandarin, though. Might > be a bit more complicated!) > > > Legend has it that Lewis Van Haney played it in a similar fashion on one > valve with a string from his fingers to the end of his valve tuning > slide when he filled at bass trombone in the NY Phil, many years ago. > I can't visualize it - maybe he locked the valve down so his left thumb > was free. > > > Raymond Horton > Bass Trombonist, > Louisville Orchestra > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:29:40 EST From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <36.203c877.3100fc54@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sounds confusing at first, but there's an easy explanation... You know how when you put your trigger (F) down, you have to go farther out on the slide to get an Eb in tune (below the staff) than you normally do to get an Eb in tune in the staff? The more length you have, the more you have to add to descend another step. Well, the "whole step" valve adds enough length for the low Eb to be in tune (a whole step down from low F with the F attachment engaged), which ends up being too much length to play Ab in tune in 1st position, closer to G...thus, the G valve. Tommy Cox Thomas B. Cox University of Georgia Graduate Teaching Assistant, Music Education In a message dated 1/19/06 9:04:52 AM, georgecarr@gmail.com writes: > This is the historical part that confuses me.? When the whole-step > valve is independent, and used by itself, doesn't it shift the horn > from Bb to Ab?? Why is it called a G valve? > > George > > ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:31:00 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: "'George Carr'" , "'Charles De Paolo'" Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <005201c61d04$f89e5ac0$0100a8c0@Adrian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > From George Carr > > This is the historical part that confuses me. When the whole-step > valve is independent, and used by itself, doesn't it shift the horn > from Bb to Ab? Why is it called a G valve? It's not a whole step valve. It lowers the pitch from Bb to G (a minor 3rd). But when used in conjunction with the F valve it lowers the pitch to Eb (a perfect 5th). If you already have the F valve down, it adds a whole step to the F trombone, not the Bb trombone. I'll quit now before I get confused myself. A. ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:31:22 +0100 From: Simon Bailey Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss To: Eric Edwards Cc: Trombone-L Message-ID: <20060119143122.GE8915@pc6139-c703.uibk.ac.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 08:28:45AM -0600, Eric Edwards wrote: > OK, my turn for a stupid question. > > What's the difference between an "F" bass and playing on the "F" trigger? > > Doesn't click in my mind at this point. a real F-bass has 7 positions. an f-attachment has at best 6 positions. (low c is "south" of 7th position on the normal horn). not a stupid question though, i only really got this one out a few weeks ago... regards, sb -- Simon Bailey Systems Administrator Institut fuer Informatik Universitaet Innsbruck Technikerstrasse 21a/2 A-6020 Innsbruck Tel: +43 (0) 512 507 - 6433 http://informatik.uibk.ac.at/ ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:39:16 -0600 From: "Bill Langston" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question To: "Bone List" Message-ID: <005101c61d06$215389d0$4103a8c0@arcdiversified.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Chris Tune wrote... > I assume the first part he literally IS playing both trumpet parts (and that > is pretty impressive) . . but the later stuff is just trumpets on tape . . > .otherwise I'm looking at a guy who can use his nostrils to play trumpet It all sounds like the original Herb Alpert recording (picking up at about 1:30 in) to me, but you know how close studio guys can come to the original... The nostril thing would indeed be impressive (I used to do a similar stunt playing Beethoven's 9th with two recorders through my nose in college, although IIRC a standard ten-fingered player has to sing or belch the low D). What I'm truly impressed with, though, is he ear playing. Not just one, but both - definitely a triumph of Eustachian flexibility. > What is this? Never on Sunday? I'm trying to remember if that's this tune. Right band, wrong tune. I believe it's Zorba The Greek --Bill Langston ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 9:43:42 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] medium shanks To: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <17802061.1137681822333.JavaMail.root@web22> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I've had good experiences with them as well, though their gold plating is pretty low-grade - lasts about 6 months. Save your money if you want gold, but otherwise they're great! J.c.S. ---- John Burton wrote: > Sounds like a task for "http://www.MouthPieceExpress.com". > > I've done a lot of business thru them, and always pleased. > > Somewhat along the same lines, I've found that they're willing to send a > Schlike up to Carl and have him turn the shank to fit my Bach receiver > prior to sending it on to me; presuming I ask first! > > Give 'em a look, and if you don't see what you're looking for, ask. > They've got a good customer service dept as well. > > ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= > > john burton > Bach 50B3 > Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra > South Charleston, West Virginia > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu > > [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Lisa & > > Patrick Bates > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:02 AM > > To: Trombone > > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] medium shanks > > > > Good question! I'll add to it. Anyone know where someone > > could get one "off the shelf"? Our local community band had a > > horn donated that needs one, and I'm the only guy in the area > > that had half a clue what the problem was! > > Something mainstream that I can get through a local dealer > > would be nice............ > > Patrick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tom Stark" > > To: "Trombone" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:18 PM > > Subject: [Trombone-l] medium shanks > > > > > > > Hello, > > > Does anyone know the actual dimensions and/or rate of taper for a > > "European" style medium shank? i.e. what diameter is it > > supposed to measure > > at the small end, and one inch up? > > > > > > Thanks in advance!! > > > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Trombone-l mailing list > > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 9:46:46 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss To: Eric Edwards Cc: Trombone-L Message-ID: <32855749.1137682006748.JavaMail.root@web22> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 A 7 position slide vs. 5.75 positions. J.c.S. ---- Eric Edwards wrote: > OK, my turn for a stupid question. > > What's the difference between an "F" bass and playing on the "F" trigger? > > Doesn't click in my mind at this point. > > > Thanks > Eric > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] > On Behalf Of Keith Marr > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:09 AM > To: Raymond Horton; trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss > > The way I was taught to do the Bartok gliss actually works better on the > Bb/F/E dependent system. > > (1) both valves down and sound the B > (2) release the 2nd valve at the same time as starting the gliss. > > It's the only thing I've found that Bb/F/E works better for than my Bb/F/D > setup. When I was using the Holton 181 I used to remove the Gb extension > from the 2nd valve to set it up to Bb/F/G/Eb. This wasn't quite as good but > still better than the standard setup. The idea is put the B as far out on > the slide as possible so that there's plenty of time during the slide > glissando to disguise the break that occurs when you release the 2nd valve. > > The German manufacturer Thein actually makes a Bb/F bass specifically to > play this glissando. http://www.thein-brass.de/index_en.php gets you to an > English version of their website. Look for the Bartok Bass in the trombone > list. Seeing is believing! Some kind of pulley system I think. At 7000 euros > > i wonder how many they sell. Surely they'd be better just making the F bass > which is missing from their range. Everything else there right up to piccolo > > Bb. > > Keith in Bb/F/D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Horton" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss > > > > eliezer aharoni wrote: > > > >>... > >>1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood > >>as > >>the topic in question: ... > >> It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is > >>less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; ... > >> > >> > > > > Here is the way to get the absolute best Bartok gliss ever, short of > > going the Doug Yeo route and having an F bass trombone made: > > > > > > You'll need two things ahead of time: > > > > > > 1) An F tuning slide slide on your valve long enough to pull to flat E > > (if you don't, have one, get one made, they can are very handy, even > > with a double valve). > > > > > > 2) A cooperative tuba player next to you. (He/she has to play a few > > bars after you do, after all.) > > > > > > You'll need to practice this with the tuba player a few times. Grease > > up the F slide as slick as possible - clean it well, then use vaseline > > and a light coat of valve oil (or whatever works for you). Pull it out > > for the low.B. Start the low B with the slide out all the way, and > > have the tubist push the slide in while you gliss up to the F. The > > tubist will need to prop up his/her horn while using two hands - just > > pushing the slide in with one hand, (i. e. pushing the horn forward, off > > of your mouth) won't work! > > > > > > The desciption sounds crazy, but it's amazing how well this can work and > > how great it can sound to finally not have a break in the middle! > > > > > > (I haven't tried this for the same gliss in the Mandarin, though. Might > > be a bit more complicated!) > > > > > > Legend has it that Lewis Van Haney played it in a similar fashion on one > > valve with a string from his fingers to the end of his valve tuning > > slide when he filled at bass trombone in the NY Phil, many years ago. > > I can't visualize it - maybe he locked the valve down so his left thumb > > was free. > > > > > > Raymond Horton > > Bass Trombonist, > > Louisville Orchestra > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 43 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 9:47:55 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: Adrian Drover Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <7828609.1137682075739.JavaMail.root@web22> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Actually, it's a sharp G (though not a G#) J.c.S. ---- Adrian Drover wrote: > > > > From George Carr > > > > This is the historical part that confuses me. When the whole-step > > valve is independent, and used by itself, doesn't it shift the horn > > from Bb to Ab? Why is it called a G valve? > > > It's not a whole step valve. It lowers the pitch from Bb to G (a minor > 3rd). But when used in conjunction with the F valve it lowers the pitch to > Eb (a perfect 5th). If you already have the F valve down, it adds a whole > step to the F trombone, not the Bb trombone. > > I'll quit now before I get confused myself. > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 44 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:10:47 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] trumpet duet To: "Jeff Albert" Cc: Bone List , Wayne Dyess Message-ID: <018901c61d0a$874803c0$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response You know. . .that was the OTHER hypothesis. . . The entire exercise is just a joke. . . It's funny alright. Looks like Ed may also play guitar and other things. I'm too much a performer to not think of the idea of actually pulling off some absurd Roland Kirk - like stunt. It's probably just as entertaining to see it pantomimed like this. . . EXAMPLE: I"m hoping one of these days to find a place in performance where I can test my ability to hold notes with circular breathing. Unless it's my own feature with it stuck on the end of a set, I don't think I'll cramp other people's style by holding out a cadenza note for three or four minutes, but that is the concept and the goal. I've done this while others are playing combo standards. . .(figure out a single note that can be held through the entire piece -- often the ninth of the main key. . .then hold it and hold it and hold it and on and on and on) Unfortunately, my circ breathing is limited to where I get reliable around middle C or so and up to maybe a C above that (I don't want to test the muscle strength by doing very high, long holds . . .just yet!). But, right in that "sweet spot" I can do dozens of circ "actions" without unduly fluctuating the tone. [SIDE BENEFIT--circ breathing is an easy way to "high-stress" your embouchure muscles; this results in increased embouchure strength which can and "will" be used later for good musical benefit. . .it's one of many reasons why Watrous plays so well. . .he works out "at the gym"] WHY DO STUNTS? I'm egotistical enough to want to hear the oohs and ahhs. . .and the chatter--"how does he DO that?" . . . besides, people love stunts, and, if they are happy, then I'm happy. Sometimes I' just do stuff like this to "prove" to myself that I can do it. Like in Hawaii on Oahu, where I did a stunt in a place near the Hanauma Bay (an extinct cinder cone now filled with ocean and a nice coral reef. .well an "OK" coral reef. . .). Just up coast from Hanauma at the next inlet, there is "The Toilet Bowl". This is a series of several odd shaped lava tubes. One has a manhole-sized opening and then a twelve to fifteen foot long tube running underwater out to a much larger lava tube with the top eroded off and regular ocean waves going in and out. The Stunt--you have to stay floating with you head sticking out of the manhole opening until you get everything perfectly timed and get the "rhythm in your bones". Then you have to swim and keep swimming even when the tide goes against you. That way after one full tide cycle (you better pray!) you pop out into the open ocean. I don't think I'd do this one now. I'm too out of shape. I think this feeling is why we had a guy (Evel Knievel) in a ludicrous jumpsuit jumping motorcycles over buses and cars and the Grand Canyon. Lucky for me I won't break any bones (skeletal. . .anyway) doing trombone stunts. This is probably common to most cultures. . . .the "stunt". Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Albert" To: "Chris Tune" Cc: "Wayne Dyess" ; ; "Bone List" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:18 AM Subject: trumpet duet > No, the whole thing is on tape. The trumpet tone is too good, and > doesn't change at all through the course of him moving to two trumpets, > then nostrils, etc, > > Jeff > On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Chris Tune wrote: > >> Not to rain on the parade . . .(and I totally dig this act!) . . . >> >> I assume the first part he literally IS playing both trumpet parts (and >> that >> is pretty impressive) . . but the later stuff is just trumpets on tape . >> . >> .otherwise I'm looking at a guy who can use his nostrils to play trumpet >> (hey. . .maybe that explains some of the sounds I hear coming out from >> behind me in some of these groups. .) >> >> What is this? Never on Sunday? I'm trying to remember if that's this >> tune. >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Wayne Dyess" >> To: >> Cc: "Bone List" >> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question >> >> >>> Speaking of websites: >>> >>> Does he get paid for doubling? >>> Click to watch: Trumpet Duet >>> Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. >>> >>> >>> We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... >>> Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? How's >>> about it Tom?? Game??? >>> Wayne Dyess >>> >>> >>> If you click on the above link and it doesn't take you to the site, >>> then copy & paste this into your browser and try that. >>> Funny bit. >>> >>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= >>> -1156414669221185353&q=trumpet&pr=goog-sl >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:34 AM, thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: >>> >>>> Very cool website. >>>> >>>> Actually, I figureed ~6 feet, but I'm trying to get a little closer - >>>> within an inch or so. >>>> >>>> Hmmm.... >>>> >>>> J.c.S. >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- George Carr wrote: >>>>> Wouldn't it be 6' long, to go from 12' F to 18' BBb? If not, you >>>>> might some help on this page, which collects variations on trombone >>>>> design: >>>>> http://trombone.bobbeecher.com/ >>>>> >>>>> George >>>>> >>>>> On 1/18/06, thetubameister@adelphia.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Okay physics/tech folks... >>>>>> >>>>>> How long would the tubing have to be for a BBb valve on an F >>>>>> contrabass trombone? I'm stumped. I usually eyeball these things, >>>>>> with very good success. Can't this time... >>>>>> >>>>>> J.c.S. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Trombone-l mailing list >>>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trombone-l mailing list >>> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> > ------------------------------ Message: 45 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:41:54 -0600 From: "Eric Edwards" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss To: , "Trombone-L" Message-ID: <20060119154153.63CD5E38E7@mailhost.unt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you all for the explanations Now I know. Thanks Eric -----Original Message----- From: mpurdy@jwpepper.com [mailto:mpurdy@jwpepper.com] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:33 AM To: Eric Edwards Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss The trombone we know and love is in two pieces roughly half the length in the bell section and half the length in the slide half. When you use an F valve you add length to the bell half but nothing to the slide half. That is the reason the positions are redistributed on the slide and you run out of slide before you have all the chromatic notes you should get. A trombone built in F is in the correct proportions to have a full chromatic 7 positions. The problem then becomes no one has arms long enough to play 6th and 7th positions. This is solved by adding a handle grip to the slide for the longer extensions. Very awkward to play but specialists develop amazing technique to execute on it well. Mike ! N "Eric Edwards" Sent by: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu 01/19/2006 09:28 AM To "Trombone-L" cc Subject [Trombone-l] FW: Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss OK, my turn for a stupid question. What's the difference between an "F" bass and playing on the "F" trigger? Doesn't click in my mind at this point. Thanks Eric -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Keith Marr Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:09 AM To: Raymond Horton; trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss The way I was taught to do the Bartok gliss actually works better on the Bb/F/E dependent system. (1) both valves down and sound the B (2) release the 2nd valve at the same time as starting the gliss. It's the only thing I've found that Bb/F/E works better for than my Bb/F/D setup. When I was using the Holton 181 I used to remove the Gb extension from the 2nd valve to set it up to Bb/F/G/Eb. This wasn't quite as good but still better than the standard setup. The idea is put the B as far out on the slide as possible so that there's plenty of time during the slide glissando to disguise the break that occurs when you release the 2nd valve. The German manufacturer Thein actually makes a Bb/F bass specifically to play this glissando. http://www.thein-brass.de/index_en.php gets you to an English version of their website. Look for the Bartok Bass in the trombone list. Seeing is believing! Some kind of pulley system I think. At 7000 euros i wonder how many they sell. Surely they'd be better just making the F bass which is missing from their range. Everything else there right up to piccolo Bb. Keith in Bb/F/D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Horton" Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:56 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone - now best Bartok gliss > eliezer aharoni wrote: > >>... >>1. Independent double-valve Bb-F-G-Eb, which most of the list understood >>as >>the topic in question: ... >> It works nicer in Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra as the valve shift is >>less noticable and you get more "milage" for the gliss; ... >> >> > > Here is the way to get the absolute best Bartok gliss ever, short of > going the Doug Yeo route and having an F bass trombone made: > > > You'll need two things ahead of time: > > > 1) An F tuning slide slide on your valve long enough to pull to flat E > (if you don't, have one, get one made, they can are very handy, even > with a double valve). > > > 2) A cooperative tuba player next to you. (He/she has to play a few > bars after you do, after all.) > > > You'll need to practice this with the tuba player a few times. Grease > up the F slide as slick as possible - clean it well, then use vaseline > and a light coat of valve oil (or whatever works for you). Pull it out > for the low.B. Start the low B with the slide out all the way, and > have the tubist push the slide in while you gliss up to the F. The > tubist will need to prop up his/her horn while using two hands - just > pushing the slide in with one hand, (i. e. pushing the horn forward, off > of your mouth) won't work! > > > The desciption sounds crazy, but it's amazing how well this can work and > how great it can sound to finally not have a break in the middle! > > > (I haven't tried this for the same gliss in the Mandarin, though. Might > be a bit more complicated!) > > > Legend has it that Lewis Van Haney played it in a similar fashion on one > valve with a string from his fingers to the end of his valve tuning > slide when he filled at bass trombone in the NY Phil, many years ago. > I can't visualize it - maybe he locked the valve down so his left thumb > was free. > > > Raymond Horton > Bass Trombonist, > Louisville Orchestra > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 46 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:07:46 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Any Home Recordist / Home Studio folk out there. . . To: "Bill Langston" , "Bone List" Message-ID: <019601c61d12$7d0b0990$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Perhaps someone on the Trb-L knows something about this issue I'm facing: I've been mastering tunes onto CD recently and have become thoroughly dissatisfied with the pre-packaged reverb that is in Cubase SL. I've been looking at newer reverbs and came up with a Google hit on Convolution Reverbs with an interesting product to possibly purchase. These Convolution Reverbs essentially capture the "response pattern" of a room given a set of test tones which are run into the room while recording the responses. The software then can (possibly aided with some "mapping" of the dimensions of the room. . .I don't know, but I've seen what looks like a "room" "as-built" type drawing with drawings or figures representing something to do with room acoustics. .this part I'm fuzzy on. .) reproduce the acoustic effect of your recorded sound being emitted into that room. Of course you can control or "tweak" subtle and not-so-subtle aspects of the reverb, but the idea is that you finally get that "perfect" hall you always really, really liked. Also, you can trade patterns or download and upload these things to web sites. Anyway, one software convolution reverb product (I'm guessing this is NOT the only one) that seems to be a good one runs US$ about 140. It is called Voxengo "Pristine Space". It also has tools for managing or obtaining the sampled rooms (available under separate charge, of course). We apparently already have enough of a standard here (the add-in is VST based so Cubase loves it) that there are web sites with reverb characteristics for churches, symphonic halls. . .auditoriums. . .funny rooms like stairwells. . .and so on. It appears that you load these into your computer directory at the right place and away you go. Up to eight channels of this reverb can be used (I would likely not use any more than that . . and would more likely use only a few at a time). The sample people Garritan have started to issue preset patterns for various rooms. Of course these are obtainable under separate cost. . .like everything in the software world. Anybody know about this thing? It "sounds" good, but I've not "heard it". . .[odd, huh?] I like the idea of having the capability of trying out a Lexicon unit one second and then switching to a Yamaha unit the next and then on to an Alesis (I love my outboard Midiverb 4. . .but it is kinda clunky sitting there on the studio desk or in the rack. .) and of course, you don't lose fidelity by going out to Analog and back into Digital. Thanks Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Langston" To: "Bone List" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:39 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question > Chris Tune wrote... > >> I assume the first part he literally IS playing both trumpet parts (and > that >> is pretty impressive) . . but the later stuff is just trumpets on tape . >> . >> .otherwise I'm looking at a guy who can use his nostrils to play trumpet > > It all sounds like the original Herb Alpert recording (picking up at about > 1:30 in) to me, but you know how close studio guys can come to the > original... The nostril thing would indeed be impressive (I used to do a > similar stunt playing Beethoven's 9th with two recorders through my nose > in > college, although IIRC a standard ten-fingered player has to sing or belch > the low D). What I'm truly impressed with, though, is he ear playing. > Not > just one, but both - definitely a triumph of Eustachian flexibility. > >> What is this? Never on Sunday? I'm trying to remember if that's this > tune. > Right band, wrong tune. I believe it's Zorba The Greek > > --Bill Langston > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ------------------------------ Message: 47 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:14:17 -0600 From: "Bill Dinwiddie" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trumpet Duet To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <007c01c61d13$664f1240$0a00a8c0@av> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I just love the way he kind of sucks you in to the increasingly improbable, nay, the clearly impossible things that he is doing. Very clever and funny. I actually used to back up an act who could play 3 trumpets simultaneously. He has a special triple mouthpiece with 3 cups welded together. But it looks to me like Ed can really play. I just don't know if he IS playing at any time. But Jeff is probably right, the tone is pretty much the same throughout. I wonder who played on the original Zorba tracks. Some excellent playing by some studio cat (or cats). Bill Dinwiddie ************************************************************************** No, the whole thing is on tape. The trumpet tone is too good, and doesn't change at all through the course of him moving to two trumpets, then nostrils, etc, Jeff On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Chris Tune wrote: > Not to rain on the parade . . .(and I totally dig this act!) . . . > > I assume the first part he literally IS playing both trumpet parts > (and that > is pretty impressive) . . but the later stuff is just trumpets on > tape . . > .otherwise I'm looking at a guy who can use his nostrils to play > trumpet > (hey. . .maybe that explains some of the sounds I hear coming out from > behind me in some of these groups. .) > > What is this? Never on Sunday? I'm trying to remember if that's > this tune. > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Dyess" > To: > Cc: "Bone List" > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Math question > > >> Speaking of websites: >> >> Does he get paid for doubling? >> Click to watch: Trumpet Duet >> Description: Ed Thompson's hilarious trumpet duet...with himself. >> >> >> We need a TROMBONE duet like this one.... >> Oh yeah. Maybe Tom Izzo could do a quartet in similar fashion? >> How's >> about it Tom?? Game??? >> Wayne Dyess ------------------------------ Message: 48 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:27:23 -0500 From: "Moran, Doug" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Any Home Recordist / Home Studio folk out there. . . To: Bone List , Chris Tune Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I have an on-location recording business, but no a home-studio technically. I use ProTools and Sound Designer II for editing. Most of my projects are single-point stereo. The only reverb I have tried that I like is in an outboard box. The high end Lexicons (300, 480, etc.) are great, but big $$$. I found and bought a used Sony DPS-V77 multi-effect processor. Crazy stuff in there, but the reverbs are the best. Digital I/O and well as analog, but you have to have the Digital I/O adaptor or make one. The digital I/O accepts and returns up to 24 bits. If you need to stay in the computer, the best I found is Waves (http://www.waves.com/) Trueverb, and I think they also have a newer reverb plug-in available. I've not used Altiverb (http://www.audioease.com/), but the folks that have dual processor Macs say it is a great software reverb. Check on the Cubase user groups. I'm on the DAW-Mac list and most of the great things I learn about digital audio come from there. Sort of like Trombone-L - real folks who tell it like it is. Doug morand@denison.edu On Jan 19, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Chris Tune wrote: > Perhaps someone on the Trb-L knows something about this issue I'm > facing: > > I've been mastering tunes onto CD recently and have become thoroughly > dissatisfied with the pre-packaged reverb that is in Cubase SL. I've > been > looking at newer reverbs and came up with a Google hit on Convolution > Reverbs with an interesting product to possibly purchase. > > These Convolution Reverbs essentially capture the "response pattern" > of a > room given a set of test tones which are run into the room while > recording > the responses. The software then can (possibly aided with some > "mapping" of > the dimensions of the room. . .I don't know, but I've seen what looks > like a > "room" "as-built" type drawing with drawings or figures representing > something to do with room acoustics. .this part I'm fuzzy on. .) > reproduce > the acoustic effect of your recorded sound being emitted into that > room. Of > course you can control or "tweak" subtle and not-so-subtle aspects of > the > reverb, but the idea is that you finally get that "perfect" hall you > always > really, really liked. Also, you can trade patterns or download and > upload > these things to web sites. > > Anyway, one software convolution reverb product (I'm guessing this is > NOT > the only one) that seems to be a good one runs US$ about 140. It is > called > Voxengo "Pristine Space". It also has tools for managing or obtaining > the > sampled rooms (available under separate charge, of course). We > apparently > already have enough of a standard here (the add-in is VST based so > Cubase > loves it) that there are web sites with reverb characteristics for > churches, > symphonic halls. . .auditoriums. . .funny rooms like stairwells. . > .and so > on. It appears that you load these into your computer directory at the > right place and away you go. Up to eight channels of this reverb can > be > used (I would likely not use any more than that . . and would more > likely > use only a few at a time). The sample people Garritan have started to > issue > preset patterns for various rooms. Of course these are obtainable > under > separate cost. . .like everything in the software world. > > Anybody know about this thing? It "sounds" good, but I've not "heard > it". . > .[odd, huh?] I like the idea of having the capability of trying out a > Lexicon unit one second and then switching to a Yamaha unit the next > and > then on to an Alesis (I love my outboard Midiverb 4. . .but it is kinda > clunky sitting there on the studio desk or in the rack. .) and of > course, > you don't lose fidelity by going out to Analog and back into Digital. > > Thanks > Chris ------------------------------ Message: 49 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:30:04 -0600 From: "Bill Langston" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trumpet Duet To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <04f901c61d15$9a4500d0$4103a8c0@arcdiversified.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Bill Dinwiddie" > I wonder who played on the original Zorba tracks. Some excellent playing by some studio cat (or cats). That was off the "Going Places" album, and by then I think there was an official line-up for the Tijuana Brass (as opposed to the studio players from "The Lonely Bull"), so I think it would be Herb Alpert and Tonni Kalash. And, of course, Bob Edmondson on trombone, just to steer it vaguely back on-topic... --(another) Bill ------------------------------ Message: 50 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:34:52 -0500 From: George Carr Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trumpet Duet To: Bill Langston Cc: List Trombone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > That was off the "Going Places" album, and by then I think there was an > official line-up for the Tijuana Brass (as opposed to the studio players > from "The Lonely Bull"), so I think it would be Herb Alpert and Tonni > Kalash. And, of course, Bob Edmondson on trombone, just to steer it vaguely > back on-topic... I heard something about this backstory, that Herb overdubbed the first singles himself, then hired studio guys to record an album, THEN formed "the band" - kind of like the Village People. :) George ------------------------------ Message: 51 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:08:10 -0600 From: "Fred Hudson" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] medium shanks To: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" , "Trombone" Message-ID: <001601c61d1a$ef34adc0$43e6eb3f@s0024172501> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have the same situation in our Community Band - nice 4 valve Besson euph with European receiver. Woodwind/Brasswind as well as Mouthpiece Express list Dennis Wick m'pcs with medium shank but I can't convince the euph player to order one. He just plays a small shank with a heavy Teflon pipe tape wrap and the slides pulled way out. Sometimes he is actually in tune! Better luck with yours! :-) Fred H ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa & Patrick Bates" To: "Trombone" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] medium shanks > Good question! I'll add to it. Anyone know where someone could get one "off > the shelf"? Our local community band had a horn donated that needs one, and > I'm the only guy in the area that had half a clue what the problem was! > Something mainstream that I can get through a local dealer would be > nice............ > Patrick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Stark" > To: "Trombone" > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:18 PM > Subject: [Trombone-l] medium shanks > > > > Hello, > > Does anyone know the actual dimensions and/or rate of taper for a > "European" style medium shank? i.e. what diameter is it supposed to measure > at the small end, and one inch up? > > > > Thanks in advance!! > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > ------------------------------ Message: 52 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:38:48 -0800 From: emrose79 Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Eb crook for bass bone To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <43CFCEA8.2050803@sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I had always thought that it was an E crook, but I just checked my Besson (ca. 2000) and it came with both a D and an Eb (actually, it IS something of a flat Eb)... If I recall, my Duo Gravis came with an E crook (rather than an Eb), but King came up with a conversion to D, and then you could get a conversion to C... Ed JFBermann@aol.com wrote: >When I purchased my first Bach bass I was puzzled that >the "Eb" using both valves was so out of tune. Lloyd Fillio >who was head of the Bach's brass at the time told me it >really wasn't an "Eb" but a flat "E", enought to get a low >B natural in tune. At that point I had a D slide made and >never looked back > >Jim Bermann >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 53 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:47:44 -0600 From: "Bill Dinwiddie" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trumpet Duet To: "List Trombone" Message-ID: <000701c61d20$73ddc2f0$0a00a8c0@av> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Bill> But it looks to me like Ed can really play. I just don't know if he IS Bill> playing at any time. But Jeff is probably right, the tone is pretty Bill> much the same throughout. I wonder who played on the original Zorba Bill> tracks. Some excellent playing by some studio cat (or cats). I'm only very loosely following this thread... are you asking who plays brass on the Zorba (the musical) recordings? If so, I have two recordings I could look on... --Harlan ******************************************************** Is the track Ed is playing to the same as the sound track from the movie "Zorba", or is it from a Herb Alpert recording, or something else? I don't remember trumpets in the original movie track, but that was a long time ago (great movie by the way....Anthony Quinn and Melina Mercouri, and possibly Alan Bates). So, I am assuming it is a Herb Alpert track, so it was probably made in Hollywood, with LA musicians, right? If so, who are they? Bill ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 18 ******************************************