Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6 Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Conversation: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6 Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Record Practice (Philip B Brown) 2. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (Jeff Albert) 3. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (Gabriel Langfur) 4. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (David W. Buckley) 5. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (Eric & Candice Swanson) 6. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com) 7. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (Wayne Dyess) 8. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (Chris Tune) 9. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW ERMD) 10. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com) 11. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 12. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW ERMD) 13. Re: RECORD PRACTICE? (dslide13@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:20:10 -0800 (PST) From: Philip B Brown Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Record Practice To: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hey, My brother (horn player) has a funny story about recording yourself. I guess he took a lesson with Barry Tuckwell in which they were discussing the issue. Tuckwell said, "record yourself while you practice. . . you'll be surprised how much you swear!" -Phil Brown ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:58:01 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: "Keith Marr" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <63FC9991-2597-4A34-855B-B6A9390C8DD2@jeffalbert.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jan 5, 2006, at 9:49 AM, Keith Marr wrote: > . . > > Seriously, I can't imagine any real value in this unless you are > exceptionally self-critical. Otherwise you need a teacher listening to > benefit at all. I disagree. Teachers are always good, but you can hear things in a recording that you don't hear behind the horn. It simply offers a different perspective. It can be useful at times (like DG said if you have a focus for it), but I have also seen people go way overboard, and get completely mentally tied by recording and listening to themselves. I rarely if ever record myself practicing, but I usually record every gig by my quartet. Sometimes I listen back more critically, and sometimes i am just checking specific things. How didd the new tune work? Is there anything here worth putting on the website? That sort off thing. jeff ===================== Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com www.scratchmybrain.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:38:57 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <20060105193857.76984.qmail@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO RECORD YOUR PRACTICE SESSIONS? Yes. Here's my suggestion: record yourself in such a way that you can go back and listen to a passage/etude/excerpt/improvisation right away. Play, listen, play, listen, etc. This gives you the chance to get immediate feedback and make immediate changes and so on. I did this a lot when I was seriously preparing for orchestral auditions, and it was incredibly valuable. We also did this a lot in the most serious chamber group I played in, and it helped us tremendously to refine our ensemble playing. This process has the extra benefit of enforcing lots of physical rest in your practice sessions, and I found it to be engaging enough to keep me mentally fresh for long periods as well. Incidentally, I just bought a new machine to do this kind of practicing: it's an MP3 player that also has internal and external mic recording capability, recording to MP3, but also .wav files and some other formats. It's the ihp120, made by iRiver, and it's a model that might be discontinued now but is still available in factory refurbished units for pretty reasonable prices on eBay. Gabe Langfur Boston, MA ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:09:59 -0500 From: "David W. Buckley" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: "Chris Tune" , , Message-ID: <002701c61234$01c317c0$094f8d18@hama2.on.cogeco.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This is an interesting mehod of checking balance. I'm not so sure that you will get a true sense of balance unless you use more than 1 mike and also have the tone controls adjusted properly. My beef has always been that conductors need to be a whole lot more help than they are in matters of balance. Along with indicating tempi and interpreting the music, most conductors should give a whole lot more feedback to players on balance, both within the ensemble and within the section. When I played for a good concert band conductor, we were always getting asked for more. In my brass band we were frequently asked to cut down and in the orchestra, to my surprise, we sometimes get accused of being wimps and not giving enough. Definitely blew my brains out in Scheherazade, The Pines of Rome and Pictures at an Exhibition. Looks like I'll do the same in Tschaik 4 this spring. For an amateur, recording our practice may result in our giving up the horn and taking up basket weaving, especially if we were to listen to ourselves at half speed! Happy New Year to all. Dave Buckley. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Tune" To: ; Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > Occassionally this may be a good idea. . .but the GREAT IDEA is to record > ensemble playing (i.e. rehearsals with band. . .concerts. . .gigs). Make > sure you get a secure place to put your mic and recorder and it should be in > front of the group. I've been doing this for a while now at some kinds of > gigs and rehearsals. > > I've found that the trombone section is never as loud as we think we are. > This may be no news for experienced professionals out there, but there > appears to be an acoustic phenomenon at work that makes the ACTUAL balance > much different than the players think. The saxes are much, much, much > louder than you would think. The trumpets are quite a bit louder than they > and almost anybody think (perhaps a good way to put it. . .is they are very > AUDIBLE. . .). Trombones are nowhere as loud as they should be (and this is > not just trombone chauvinism. . .they really could use a boost). > > I believe that the sonority of trombone does not lend itself to cutting > through an ensemble's sound as well as the higher pitched instruments do. > The alto saxophone can cut through with amazing "bite". .and the lead > trumpet is always audible, as is the electric piano. But the lead bone is > not high enough most times to get that benefit. Also the tone of the lead > bone is mellower than the trumpet in the same register. This mellowness > means less of the high overtones. Thus, less audibility. > > You should listen to this stuff. > > The only time the trombones are truly kinda loud is when we THINK we are > "peeling the paint off the walls". Then were kinda loud. NOT peeling paint > loud, but just LOUD. > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:01 AM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > > > > It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. We tend to > > tackle individual facets of our development which initiates a cyclical > > improvement. As we become aware of one problem, we solve it to reveal > > another. One of the most difficult tasks in the process is the ability > > to hear "how we sound" and not "how we think we sound". Recording your > > practice can reveal this. But, hearing ourselves in this way could also > > be a hindrance. I know there are places in my home where the sound > > doesn't resonate as well and I'm affected physically. Without the > > acoustic warmth to which I'm accustomed, I will instinctively make a > > physical adjustment to achieve the purity of tone that I desire. In > > that case, I might be better off hearing myself less and feeling the > > instrument more. > > > > The practice battle is often between conscious and subconscious. > > Recording sessions as a "fishing expedition" to find faults in your > > playing may be a little too daunting. But, listening with a specific > > purpose could be very beneficial. i.e., how smooth are my > > articulations?....is my breathing/phrasing natural? how is my > > intonation? > > > > Using the recording as a crutch can be dangerous though. It should > > reveal to you what you're failing to perceive when the horn is on your > > face, so that you can use that awareness in the future. The ideal is to > > hear all of your inconsistencies when the horn IS on your face. > > > > David Gibson > > trombonist/educator > > www.jazzbone.org > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Charles Levine > > To: Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > > Sent: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:43:12 -0500 > > Subject: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > > > > IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO RECORD YOUR PRACTICE SESSIONS? > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ > > Trombone-l mailing list > > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:09:09 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <43BD7CE5.7000402@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Charles Levine wrote: >IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO RECORD YOUR PRACTICE SESSIONS? > > Charles, I vote yes, definitely. Anytime you think you're sounding pretty good, record yourself for a few minutes. Come back later and listen to the tape as you would listen to a student of yours. You will be surprised at how bad you actually sound. That goes for you, me, major symphony players, all the pros, everybody. It's never perfect, you will always hear something you didn't hear when you played it. Eric Swanson Dallas Opera Orchestra ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:18:44 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: swan325@earthlink.net, Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Message-ID: <21e.5ed0b51.30eed924@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" When you sound bad in practice, and you can hear it you know what to adjust for when you are playing the program in front of all those people who paid to hear you. Great idea. beldon wade ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:57:06 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: Charles Levine Cc: Bone List Message-ID: <61bcea7055182ad55e6472f06d62ae1b@gt.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Jan 5, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Charles Levine wrote: > IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO RECORD YOUR PRACTICE SESSIONS? > _______________________________________________ > Only if you want to know what you sound like, :-) W ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:48:25 -0800 From: "Chris Tune" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: "David W. Buckley" , , Message-ID: <00dc01c61241$c249d2b0$0400a8c0@athlon2800> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original That is kinda what you DON'T want to do. You want flat responding mics and you want stereo recording. Other than that, you don't really need to get any particular array of mics (like a M/S, or Mid/Side type stereo array or a Decca array of multiple mics). You don't want lots of mics around because I'm trying to point out the sound delivery at a POINT out in the audience. Humans (other than in Harry Potter) don't have ears or listening devices that can extend over to some place dozens of feet away. The mics need to be "flat" in response (pretty easy, although you must double-check the response of the mics--actually many electret condensers are pretty close to flat responding) particularly in the 20hz to 12000hz range, which contains the vast majority of musical information. Above that, you get more "presence" information. Once you have done that, you are picking up what is heard in the audience. [caveat: the acoustics of various concert halls and auditoriums can change these results--acting essentially like a "filter" in some difference sections of the hall--each hall is different. . but this general principle really is so overwhelmingly important, that the occasional exception is not what should be driving things] There are lots of psycho-acoustic reasons why musicians NEAR the trombone section may think it is TOO LOUD, when, in reality, out in the audience it is NOT --not even close to "too loud". As we get closer and closer to a sound source, the difference in perceived power output between the low frequencies and the high frequencies lowers. In other words, the Tuba and Trombone and String Bass, Bass Drum "sound" louder in relation to the high strings, woodwinds, piano, other percussion, etc once we get "into" the orchestra, like other players are. . .or right "in front" of the group, like the conductor. This closeness effect is very much like a microphone's "proximity" effect which drastically increases bass response vs. all other increases in response as you get within around six inches of the mic capsule. This is generally NOT an issue in typical commercial recordings because a trombone section (usually each section and some individual instruments, like bass) is generally recorded separately from any other section (and walled off with baffles). The section can then easily be brought up for more presence and better balance. This doesn't mean that the same performance done in the recording studio would sound balanced in an auditorium. This acoustic phenomenon is very well understood by physicists who study acoustics and write about it. It is NOT very well understood in musical teaching circles, although I have heard it mentioned occasionally. Try it with your portable stereo recorder. I think you will find the results interesting. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Buckley" To: "Chris Tune" ; ; Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > This is an interesting mehod of checking balance. I'm not so sure that you > will get a true sense of balance unless you use more than 1 mike and also > have the tone controls adjusted properly. My beef has always been that > conductors need to be a whole lot more help than they are in matters of > balance. Along with indicating tempi and interpreting the music, most > conductors should give a whole lot more feedback to players on balance, > both > within the ensemble and within the section. When I played for a good > concert > band conductor, we were always getting asked for more. In my brass band we > were frequently asked to cut down and in the orchestra, to my surprise, we > sometimes get accused of being wimps and not giving enough. Definitely > blew > my brains out in Scheherazade, The Pines of Rome and Pictures at an > Exhibition. Looks like I'll do the same in Tschaik 4 this spring. > > For an amateur, recording our practice may result in our giving up the > horn > and taking up basket weaving, especially if we were to listen to ourselves > at half speed! > > Happy New Year to all. > > Dave Buckley. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Tune" > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > > >> Occassionally this may be a good idea. . .but the GREAT IDEA is to record >> ensemble playing (i.e. rehearsals with band. . .concerts. . .gigs). > Make >> sure you get a secure place to put your mic and recorder and it should be > in >> front of the group. I've been doing this for a while now at some kinds >> of >> gigs and rehearsals. >> >> I've found that the trombone section is never as loud as we think we are. >> This may be no news for experienced professionals out there, but there >> appears to be an acoustic phenomenon at work that makes the ACTUAL >> balance >> much different than the players think. The saxes are much, much, much >> louder than you would think. The trumpets are quite a bit louder than > they >> and almost anybody think (perhaps a good way to put it. . .is they are > very >> AUDIBLE. . .). Trombones are nowhere as loud as they should be (and this > is >> not just trombone chauvinism. . .they really could use a boost). >> >> I believe that the sonority of trombone does not lend itself to cutting >> through an ensemble's sound as well as the higher pitched instruments do. >> The alto saxophone can cut through with amazing "bite". .and the lead >> trumpet is always audible, as is the electric piano. But the lead bone >> is >> not high enough most times to get that benefit. Also the tone of the >> lead >> bone is mellower than the trumpet in the same register. This mellowness >> means less of the high overtones. Thus, less audibility. >> >> You should listen to this stuff. >> >> The only time the trombones are truly kinda loud is when we THINK we are >> "peeling the paint off the walls". Then were kinda loud. NOT peeling > paint >> loud, but just LOUD. >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:01 AM >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? >> >> >> > It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. We tend to >> > tackle individual facets of our development which initiates a cyclical >> > improvement. As we become aware of one problem, we solve it to reveal >> > another. One of the most difficult tasks in the process is the ability >> > to hear "how we sound" and not "how we think we sound". Recording your >> > practice can reveal this. But, hearing ourselves in this way could also >> > be a hindrance. I know there are places in my home where the sound >> > doesn't resonate as well and I'm affected physically. Without the >> > acoustic warmth to which I'm accustomed, I will instinctively make a >> > physical adjustment to achieve the purity of tone that I desire. In >> > that case, I might be better off hearing myself less and feeling the >> > instrument more. >> > >> > The practice battle is often between conscious and subconscious. >> > Recording sessions as a "fishing expedition" to find faults in your >> > playing may be a little too daunting. But, listening with a specific >> > purpose could be very beneficial. i.e., how smooth are my >> > articulations?....is my breathing/phrasing natural? how is my >> > intonation? >> > >> > Using the recording as a crutch can be dangerous though. It should >> > reveal to you what you're failing to perceive when the horn is on your >> > face, so that you can use that awareness in the future. The ideal is to >> > hear all of your inconsistencies when the horn IS on your face. >> > >> > David Gibson >> > trombonist/educator >> > www.jazzbone.org >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Charles Levine >> > To: Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu >> > Sent: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:43:12 -0500 >> > Subject: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? >> > >> > IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO RECORD YOUR PRACTICE SESSIONS? >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Trombone-l mailing list >> > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Trombone-l mailing list >> > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trombone-l mailing list >> Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 07:46:30 +0100 From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW ERMD" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: dslide13@aol.com, trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Yes! I think this seldom discussed concept is the single biggest hurdle to learning the trombone, maybe any instrument. We need feedback so we can adjust, but hearing ourself is a learned ability that comes much more slowly to some than to others. I suspect that most of the "talent" that we ascribe to the great players is simply that they acquired this ability earlier. I think there may even be another mechanism at work. Beginners not only lack the ability to hear themselves, they have an active mechanism that works to prevent it. This is some kind of hardwired protective brain function that hides our mistakes. Purpose? I dunno, maybe it keeps us from getting discouraged and quitting. But first you have to unlearn that, then learn to hear. Maybe recording, maybe something like silent brass fed into our ears. I do some playing into a corner of hard plaster walls listening for the echo. -----Original Message----- From: dslide13@aol.com [mailto:dslide13@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 16:01 To: trombone-l@samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? One of the most difficult tasks in the process is the ability to hear "how we sound" and not "how we think we sound". Recording your practice can reveal this. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:23:41 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: crtune@adelphia.net, davebuckley@cogeco.ca, Dslide13@aol.com, trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <261.4b8625e.30efd76d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Why not loud? Trombones never are. It takes more power to push the longer sound waves that emenate from instruments that are in the lower registers than it does the higher frequency instruments. Gotta move a lot of air, and if you don't the audience perceives less volume. beldon wade ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 9:48:27 -0500 From: thetubameister@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW ERMD" Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <18039310.1136558907615.JavaMail.root@web27> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I believe it was Christopher Meeder who told me that you need to send "the judges" in your head away, and simply evaluate. Assigning "good or bad" to a performance isn't as helpful playing-wise or psychologically as learning to evaluate a performance for what you want it to become. Recording can help you do that. Best to listen with a beer, though ;-) J.c.S. ---- "Richardson wrote: > Yes! > > I think this seldom discussed concept is the single biggest hurdle to > learning the trombone, maybe any instrument. > > We need feedback so we can adjust, but hearing ourself is a learned ability > that comes much more slowly to some than to others. I suspect that most of > the "talent" that we ascribe to the great players is simply that they > acquired this ability earlier. > > I think there may even be another mechanism at work. Beginners not only > lack the ability to hear themselves, they have an active mechanism that > works to prevent it. This is some kind of hardwired protective brain > function that hides our mistakes. Purpose? I dunno, maybe it keeps us from > getting discouraged and quitting. But first you have to unlearn that, then > learn to hear. > > Maybe recording, maybe something like silent brass fed into our ears. I do > some playing into a corner of hard plaster walls listening for the echo. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dslide13@aol.com [mailto:dslide13@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 16:01 > To: trombone-l@samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > > > > One of the most difficult tasks in the process is the ability to hear "how > we sound" and not "how we think we sound". Recording your practice can > reveal this. > > David Gibson > trombonist/educator > www.jazzbone.org > > > -----Original Message----- > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:38:31 +0100 From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW ERMD" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: thetubameister@adelphia.net Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Agree, and even better to play with a beer. -----Original Message----- From: thetubameister@adelphia.net [mailto:thetubameister@adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 15:48 To: Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW ERMD Cc: dslide13@aol.com; trombone-l@samford.edu Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? I believe it was Christopher Meeder who told me that you need to send "the judges" in your head away, and simply evaluate. Assigning "good or bad" to a performance isn't as helpful playing-wise or psychologically as learning to evaluate a performance for what you want it to become. Recording can help you do that. Best to listen with a beer, though ;-) J.c.S. ---- "Richardson wrote: > Yes! > > I think this seldom discussed concept is the single biggest hurdle to > learning the trombone, maybe any instrument. > > We need feedback so we can adjust, but hearing ourself is a learned > ability that comes much more slowly to some than to others. I suspect > that most of the "talent" that we ascribe to the great players is > simply that they acquired this ability earlier. > > I think there may even be another mechanism at work. Beginners not > only lack the ability to hear themselves, they have an active > mechanism that works to prevent it. This is some kind of hardwired > protective brain function that hides our mistakes. Purpose? I dunno, > maybe it keeps us from getting discouraged and quitting. But first > you have to unlearn that, then learn to hear. > > Maybe recording, maybe something like silent brass fed into our ears. I do > some playing into a corner of hard plaster walls listening for the echo. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dslide13@aol.com [mailto:dslide13@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 16:01 > To: trombone-l@samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > > > > One of the most difficult tasks in the process is the ability to hear > "how we sound" and not "how we think we sound". Recording your > practice can reveal this. > > David Gibson > trombonist/educator > www.jazzbone.org > > > -----Original Message----- > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 11:21:24 -0500 From: dslide13@aol.com Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? To: thetubameister@adelphia.net, timothy.a.richardson@us.army.mil Cc: trombone-l@samford.edu Message-ID: <8C7E0F45F0CA8FC-8D0-9D@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed See Kenny Werner's "Effortless Mastery". Good and bad can become obstacles that impede improvement. The anxiety created by these judgments can manifest in physical tension that works against your goal. Kenny advised to try and play "badly" to combat this. As a composer, writer's block is often a symptom of the desire for greatness. By trying to write "something" instead of writing "something great", you at least have a germ that can grow. Even if the initial ideas are uninspired or weak, you have the opportunity to use your compositional tools/skills to mold them into something that is at least good. If you can't even make it good, you've at the very least practiced using your tools. David Gibson trombonist/educator www.jazzbone.org -----Original Message----- From: thetubameister@adelphia.net To: Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC USAG Franconia DPW ERMD Cc: dslide13@aol.com; trombone-l@samford.edu Sent: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 9:48:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? I believe it was Christopher Meeder who told me that you need to send "the judges" in your head away, and simply evaluate. Assigning "good or bad" to a performance isn't as helpful playing-wise or psychologically as learning to evaluate a performance for what you want it to become. Recording can help you do that. Best to listen with a beer, though ;-) J.c.S. ---- "Richardson wrote: > Yes! > > I think this seldom discussed concept is the single biggest hurdle to > learning the trombone, maybe any instrument. > > We need feedback so we can adjust, but hearing ourself is a learned ability > that comes much more slowly to some than to others. I suspect that most of > the "talent" that we ascribe to the great players is simply that they > acquired this ability earlier. > > I think there may even be another mechanism at work. Beginners not only > lack the ability to hear themselves, they have an active mechanism that > works to prevent it. This is some kind of hardwired protective brain > function that hides our mistakes. Purpose? I dunno, maybe it keeps us from > getting discouraged and quitting. But first you have to unlearn that, then > learn to hear. > > Maybe recording, maybe something like silent brass fed into our ears. I do > some playing into a corner of hard plaster walls listening for the echo. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dslide13@aol.com [mailto:dslide13@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 16:01 > To: trombone-l@samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] RECORD PRACTICE? > > > > One of the most difficult tasks in the process is the ability to hear "how > we sound" and not "how we think we sound". Recording your practice can > reveal this. > > David Gibson > trombonist/educator > www.jazzbone.org > > > -----Original Message----- > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l End of Trombone-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6 *****************************************