Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1 Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2005 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: When did heavier become better? (andy.skaggs@wachovia.com) 2. RE: Missing part (thetubameister@adelphia.net) 3. Fwd: ODERING............... (DSlide13@aol.com) 4. Re: Fwd: ODERING............... (john.mcvey@cablespeed.com) 5. Re: Fwd: ODERING............... (BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com) 6. Re: Fwd: ODERING............... (Chris Waage) 7. Contrabass trombone (James W. Yardley) 8. Re: Web site directions (Larry White) 9. RE: When did heavier become better? (Daniel Pliskin) 10. Re: heavier trombone (jimandcat@juno.com) 11. Re: Fwd: ODERING............... (Adrian Drover) From: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:24:09 -0500 To: Paul Kemp Cc: 'Trombones and related issues forum' Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] When did heavier become better? Allow me to jump in and contribute to the "Laskey love-fest" taking place here. I have been absolutely thrilled with the 57D I started using several months ago. For me, it's like the perfect, slightly roomier 5G I've been looking for all my life. Now, more to the topic, I would tend to agree with those who have made the point that many young students choose to play bigger, heavier equipment as a means of achieving the "Big Sound" they seem to think is a requirement in this business. I guess I'm fortunate in that I never got caught up in the arms race myself. When I was in college, my early teachers never even brought up the issue of equipment (I played a Conn 88H with a 6.5AL when I entered school). We just worked on technique, tone production, musicality, excerpts, etc. Now I play a 1975 thin belled Bach 42B with a (gasp!) closed-wrap standard rotary valve and Minick OL lead pipe. Great sounding horn, but not a tank by any means. I can certainly put out plenty of sound when I need to, and I can blend and play ppppp with clear attacks without worrying. On my bass trombone gig (a part-time regional symphony) I use an Elkhart 72H (single-valve), which does the job beautifully and has the advantage of not being more horn than I can handle (I do 80% or more of my work on the 42). My predecessor in that job used a double-thayer dual-bore Edwards with a 10.5" bell. The poor little orchestra never stood a chance. I think part of the equipment blitz is driven by insecurity in a product-rich environment. Students go to clinics or masterclasses and hear excellent players on great custom horns (occasionally big, heavy custom horns), and then their own equipment begins to look shabby and common to them. Perhaps they think, "I'll never hit the big time until I get big time gear." So they get the cart before the horse so to speak, or more accurately, the train before the engine. - Andy Skaggs From: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:51:47 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] Missing part I would argue I'm comparing apples to apples, not apples to calculators. However, in either case, you would not expect the part for free, i.e. waltz in and take a new inner slide tube without paying for it. Most don't even give the publisher a chance - I think - to offer to sell you a replacement part. Regrettable... J.c.S. ---- Delbert Pakiser wrote: > One more idea to compare. > > Your trombone needs repair, so the repair shop will fix the trombone. They > might replace a inner slide or replace the water key. They do have > replacement parts. You don't have to buy a complete new horn. Yet in > printed music, you can't buy replacement parts, you have to buy the complete > new set of music. > > Del Pakiser > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] > On Behalf Of J.c. Sherman > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 6:00 AM > To: 'Chris Waage'; Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] Missing part > > Taking it a step further, as Doug Yeo points out on his website, most of us > would never stroll into a record store in a mall, and leave with a CD > without paying for it. That has a direct parallel with copying recordings > or illegally downloading them. > > The same can be said of the "missing part" or "coffee stain" argument. You > would never stroll into the local music store and take your missing part > from their cabinet and stroll out of the building. You go to jail for that, > and rightfully so. You are doing the same thing when you copy it - taking > their money without going into the store! And the publisher looses out, > since thee wont be an edition to replace if it's copied and not purchased. > So you just stole from two people/entities! > > J.c.S. > > -----Original Message----- > From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] > On Behalf Of Chris Waage > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 5:03 PM > To: Trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Missing part > > In a nutshell, the point is this: if you have lost a piece of music or it > has been damaged beyond usefulness, and it is still in print, the right > thing to do is contact the publisher (or an agent of the publisher, such as > a music retailer) for a copy of the music. > > If it is not in print, you should still contact the publisher or an agent of > the publisher for a reproduction waiver, just to cover yourself legally. > > How many people are going to suddenly end up with lawsuits for copyright > violations because of a photocopied piece of music? Not many. > > That still does not make it right in any way, shape or form. > > While I do not remember all of the pertinent information, the band music > library at a major university (I believe it was the University of Texas) was > hit with a substantial fine in the mid 1980's for the possession of illegal > copies of copyrighted music. > > The real test of the logic is if you can substitute another item for the > music and still have the logic work. Use a similar item, such as a book: > "I recently lost the fourth volume of my five volume set of Harry Potter > novels, so I borrowed one from the library and photocopied it to replace the > lost volume." > > Sounds pretty foolish, right? If you lost the book, you'd purchase a > replacement, not photocopy it, even though the lost of the revenue from one > book sale really probably wouldn't affect J.K. Rowling's pocketbook. > > Is it a convenient process, or one that can be done in five minutes? > > No. > > But, sometimes, it turns out that doing the right thing isn't always > convenient. > > Chris > > > -- > Chris Waage, Bass Trombonist > The Online Trombone Journal > www. trombone.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > From: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:32:30 -0500 To: Subject: [Trombone-l] Fwd: ODERING............... Perhaps the security of the trombone list's email addresses has been compromised? It seems that several of us have received this very articulate inquiry from a "succeful business man" in Nigeria. DG jazzbone.org Subj: ÊÊ ODERING............... ÊÊDate: ÊÊ 2/28/2005 3:44:40 PM Eastern Standard Time ÊÊFrom: ÊÊ williams julliet ÊÊTo: ÊÊ jallenlawtek@aol.com, jallenlawtek@aol.com, johannp@aol.com, Getztg@aol.com, fmpden@AOL.com, Tracyald@aol.com, plugup@aol.com,docclayton@aol.com, iversenk@aol.com, ecgal715@aol.com, kd6bwh@aol.com, Dslide13@AOL.COM, dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu, BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com, stanederjr@aol.com, imc@top.net, smackey007@aol.com, DavidAdamSawyer@aol.com, userj2273@aol.com, MelissaUDS@aol.com, beijingifc@aol.com, ceoiice@aol.com, Skinsects@aol.com, arguello10@comcast.net, ghtoyman@aol.com, potholeresearch@aol.com, kassman@aol.com, kristenbau@aol.com, eseum@aol.com, JKVDP@aol.com ÊÊSent from the Internet (Details) DEAR SALES, ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ i am williams julliet aÊ great succeful business man . i want to buy some items of GOODS in your companyÊ and i will love youÊ To ship to nigeria for me where one of my store is sited. i will be expecting soonest to knowÊ the next procedures and i am paying with my credit card. thanks. ÊÊ Best Regards, Williams Julliet. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. From: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:45:44 -0600 To: , Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Fwd: ODERING............... Since it appears all the addresses in his e-mail are for AOL, more likely he is just SPAMMING AOL e-mail addresses. I'm not certain there is any such thing as a "secure" e-mail address any longer anywhere. Even my .FRB.GOV e-mail address is considered public information obtainable through a simple Freedom of Information request. John On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:32:30 -0500 DSlide13@aol.com wrote: >Perhaps the security of the trombone list's email >addresses has been compromised? It seems that several of >us have received this very articulate inquiry from a >"succeful business man" in Nigeria. > >DG >jazzbone.org > > > > >Subj: > >ODERING............... > > Date: > >2/28/2005 3:44:40 PM Eastern Standard Time > > From: > >williams julliet > > To: > >jallenlawtek@aol.com, jallenlawtek@aol.com, >johannp@aol.com, Getztg@aol.com, fmpden@AOL.com, >Tracyald@aol.com, plugup@aol.com,docclayton@aol.com, >iversenk@aol.com, ecgal715@aol.com, kd6bwh@aol.com, >Dslide13@AOL.COM, dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu, >BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com, stanederjr@aol.com, imc@top.net, >smackey007@aol.com, DavidAdamSawyer@aol.com, >userj2273@aol.com, MelissaUDS@aol.com, >beijingifc@aol.com, ceoiice@aol.com, Skinsects@aol.com, >arguello10@comcast.net, ghtoyman@aol.com, >potholeresearch@aol.com, kassman@aol.com, >kristenbau@aol.com, eseum@aol.com, JKVDP@aol.com > > > Sent from the Internet (Details) > > > > > > > > > >DEAR SALES, > i am williams julliet a great succeful business >man . i want to buy some items of GOODS in your company >and i will love you To ship to nigeria for me where one >of my store is sited. >i will be expecting soonest to know the next procedures >and i am paying with my credit card. thanks. > Best Regards, >Williams Julliet. > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. From: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:25:11 EST To: , Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Fwd: ODERING............... I JUST GOT ONE ALSO. BELDON WADE From: Chris Waage Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:24:38 -0800 To: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Fwd: ODERING............... I would venture that this swine is simply going through the list archives and culling e-mail addresses. When I helped with the trombone-l several years ago, we had several instances of people doing this. I actually worked with the Internet Service Providers used by two of them and managed to get their Internet access and web sites turned off for violating the ISP's acceptable use policy. The problem is that there's not much that can be done about this sort of nonsense. Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:45:44 -0600 >Since it appears all the addresses in his e-mail are for >AOL, more likely he is just SPAMMING AOL e-mail addresses. >I'm not certain there is any such thing as a "secure" >e-mail address any longer anywhere. Even my .FRB.GOV >e-mail address is considered public information obtainable >through a simple Freedom of Information request. > >John > >On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:32:30 -0500 > DSlide13@aol.com wrote: >>Perhaps the security of the trombone list's email >>addresses has been compromised? It seems that several of >>us have received this very articulate inquiry from a >>"succeful business man" in Nigeria. >> >>DG >>jazzbone.org >> >> >> >> >>Subj: >> >>ODERING............... >> >> Date: >> >>2/28/2005 3:44:40 PM Eastern Standard Time >> >> From: >> >>williams julliet >> >> To: >> >>jallenlawtek@aol.com, jallenlawtek@aol.com, >>johannp@aol.com, Getztg@aol.com, fmpden@AOL.com, >>Tracyald@aol.com, plugup@aol.com,docclayton@aol.com, >>iversenk@aol.com, ecgal715@aol.com, kd6bwh@aol.com, >>Dslide13@AOL.COM, dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu, >>BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com, stanederjr@aol.com, imc@top.net, >>smackey007@aol.com, DavidAdamSawyer@aol.com, >>userj2273@aol.com, MelissaUDS@aol.com, >>beijingifc@aol.com, ceoiice@aol.com, Skinsects@aol.com, >>arguello10@comcast.net, ghtoyman@aol.com, >>potholeresearch@aol.com, kassman@aol.com, >>kristenbau@aol.com, eseum@aol.com, JKVDP@aol.com >> >> >> Sent from the Internet (Details) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>DEAR SALES, >> i am williams julliet a great succeful business >>man . i want to buy some items of GOODS in your company >>and i will love you To ship to nigeria for me where one >>of my store is sited. >>i will be expecting soonest to know the next procedures >>and i am paying with my credit card. thanks. >> Best Regards, >>Williams Julliet. >> >> >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at trombone.org From: "James W. Yardley" Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:40:53 -0800 To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: [Trombone-l] Contrabass trombone Does anyone know where I might be able to rent/borrow a contrabass trombone? I'm a student in Eau Claire, WI and we are hosting Maria Schneider for our jazz festival at the end of March. We are set to perform her Buleria, Solea, and Rumba (from her new Concert in the Garden CD) which is scored for contrabass trombone. My school doesn't own one so I was hoping I might get some leads on how I might rent/borrow one. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! Take care, James Yardley From: Larry White Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:29:06 -0800 To: Corliss Cc: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Web site directions Richard, If you look at the address you sent it to, LISTPROC@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU you will note it is different from the address the message actually went to (shown in the Address box above). Try trombone-l@server5.samford.edu I believe the address was just changed (again) about a month ago or so. L J Corliss wrote: >I used the directions in the Trombone-l website for unsubscribing but the address >does not work. The mail gets returned. The site does not seem to have directions for temporarily stopping mail, but that is unimportant. I don't mind unsubscribing and then subscribing. > >Any suggestions on how to stop this mail or am I chained to this program for eternity? > >Richard Corliss > >_______________________________________________ >Trombone-l mailing list >Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu >http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > From: Daniel Pliskin Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 05:29:29 +0000 To: Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] When did heavier become better? Iâd like to give those young students the benefit of the doubt. When a student is ready for a new, better instrument, and wants to get a warmer, darker sound, the easiest way to do so is to go for the largest and heaviest equipment. Yes, there are a few, select lighter instruments, which give you both warmth and the ability to express subtle nuances, but those instruments are not necessarily easy to find. I've always advocated going to a large mouthpiece on smaller equipment, but it takes months to build those new muscles. In contrast, buying a large, heavy trombone gives you instant results. You only discover that the extra weight is a problem a few days later, when youâre in need of a body worker. And it might be months later that you discover that you canât tame the thing, for playing in small groups. DanP From: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:29:48 -0800 To: Subject: [Trombone-l] Re: heavier trombone Interesting topic: Warning: I am a bass trombonist primarily, tenor pickers might have a different perspective. When I was interested in playing orchestral music exclusively (only do that occasionally now), I felt the pressure to move to heavier equipment. Went from my stock yellow bell Conn 72H to a red brass bell 70H, to a Bach 50 to a Bach 50 with an Edwards dual bore slide. Considered going to an Edwards, until I saw that the tuning slide was almost as big as a euphonium's! And sounded about like that as well! When I shopped for Shires and elicited advice from many players (including my cybernetic friend Gabe), I knew for my uses I wanted something lighter. As I played for Steve in the store, I kept telling him on some combinations, "it sounds too much like the Bach I already have". (Which I still have and use) He heard me, and steered me wisely to what I was looking for. For a bass trombone, I wanted a classy SUV rather than the very good 18 wheeler I already had. (Tenor pickers are probably looking for something between a sports car convertible and a BMW sedan). But, I really got to like the versatility of the dual bore slide (.562/.578), and Shires makes a really good one, better IMO than the Edwards. More lively, less dull, but I did like the Edwards on my Bach bell. Anyhoo, I ended up with a Shires LW red brass bell with yellow tuning slide and yellow handslide. Works great all around with me EXCEPT when I play with the local orchestra. They are into dark, loud, big. So I got a bigger leadpipe and heavier Shires bell to use for that. Modular works, when you are ready for it. Gabe, glad you like the Laskey, too tubby for my uses. Ferguson LS--rah, rah, rah. Works for everything I do. My short low notes pop out great on it. But, your atmospheric pressure, lip structure, etc. is probably way different than mine. Well, infinitesimally different anyway. I am glad you are happy with what you went to, this month (hee, hee). But I agree, some players pick way too heavy equipment to make the songs sing. Guys like Lloyd Ulyate, Hoyt Bohannan, Dick Nash, Roy Main in the LA area could go from the commercial to the legit world with no one complaining of their sound. And they always played on what some people now call "peashooters". I am playing with my long time friend Miles Anderson this weekend for a benefit. He plays some pretty small equipment compared to what is out there now, he still has a huge, musical sound. Did I remember to say musical? Jim Prindle San Diego, CA From: Adrian Drover Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:49:46 -0000 To: , , Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Fwd: ODERING............... From: >I JUST GOT ONE ALSO. Only one? You're lucky. I need a dump truck to collect mine. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l