Subject: Trombone-l Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16 Date: Saturday, February 26, 2005 12:00 PM From: trombone-l-request@samford.edu Reply-To: trombone-l@samford.edu To: Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to trombone-l-request@maillists.samford.edu You can reach the person managing the list at trombone-l-owner@maillists.samford.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Wisdom teeth (Trombonus Rex) 2. Re: Missing part (Craig Parmerlee) 3. Missing part (Robert Holland) 4. Re: Loud Orchestra Cartoon (Eric & Candice Swanson) 5. Re: Missing part (Craig Parmerlee) 6. Re: Missing part (Adrian Drover) 7. Re: Loud Orchestra Cartoon (Dean McCarty) 8. Re: Sharpness in lower register (Jackie Harris-Stone) 9. FW: [Trombone-l] Missing part (Eric Edwards) 10. Re: Sharpness in lower register (Adrian Drover) 11. New quintet (Eric Edwards) 12. Re: FW: [Trombone-l] Missing part (JFBermann@aol.com) 13. Re: Sharpness in lower register (BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com) 14. Re: Missing part (Daniel Pliskin) From: Trombonus Rex Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:44:18 -0800 To: Tony Clements , , , Brass List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Wisdom teeth Hi Tony, I've had mine done, as well as had several students had theirs removed without problem. Could there be nerve damage-- sure. It's just like the risk with anesthesia- there is always a certain risk of problematic, even fatal repercussions, but these are usually quite low from what I gather. I had an extensive conversation with my dentist (a euphonium player) at the time about my concerns- there "is" a risk, but if you have a competent surgeon and take two weeks off the risk is quite low. Since you're very established in your career & it's a bit later that most extractions, it would certainly be worth a second opinion by another dentist you trust/is highly reccomended by other brass players. Best, Jon Jon Brummel Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombones trex@summermusic.us www.summermusic.us ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Clements" To: ; ; "Brass List" Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:52 AM Subject: [Trombone-l] Wisdom teeth > Friends, > > As a 50 year old tubist, my dentist is STRONGLY recommending removal of my > wisdom teeth. My greatest fear is that I will suffer some nerve damage > that > may affect my playing. Is there anyone out there in brass land that has > any > experience with this? Thanks. > > Tony Clements > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > > ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 19 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! From: Craig Parmerlee Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:02:34 -0500 To: Trombone List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Missing part Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD wrote: >Logic in my own mind does not always equate to legality in a broader sense, >I realize. > > Moreover, the utter absurdity of the copyright laws is a major factor it the complete disregard most Americans pay to copyrighted material. When people don't believe laws are fair, they don't abide by them. It is absolutely preposterous that I can't legally keep a copy of music I have purchased in case: 1) I spill a cup of coffee on it 2) I lose one of the parts 3) The publication goes out of print I pay for everything I use, but I do believe that publishers have brought a fair amount of this attitude upon themselves. From: Robert Holland Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:15:48 -0600 To: "Trb. List" Subject: [Trombone-l] Missing part Craig Parmerlee wrote: > Moreover, the utter absurdity of the copyright laws is a major factor > it the complete disregard most Americans pay to copyrighted material. > When people don't believe laws are fair, they don't abide by them. It > is absolutely preposterous that I can't legally keep a copy of music I > have purchased in case: The operative word here is "believe." The complexity of copyright law is at least in part due to the nebulous nature of intellectual property. The disregard for it is due to the ease of making photocopies. > 1) I spill a cup of coffee on it OK, so you take your purchase home and in the course of its use you damage it, rendering it damaged or useless. Try the "preposterous" argument when you spill your coffee on your trombone instead, ruining the lacquer. To repairman: "I already paid for the trombone. Why do I have to pay for repairs?" Or to take an example closer to home, you were reading your ITA Journal in the bathtub and mistakenly dropped it in. All the pages stuck together and you could no longer read it. Who's on the hook for the replacement copy, since a photocopy would be clearly inferior and largely pointless. > 2) I lose one of the parts Music is typically sold as the score alone (intended for study) or as score and parts (intended for performance). The latter is sold as a set. Maybe the nice folks at Sears will allow you to replace the sole size on your ratchet set that you dropped into your engine, but it's doubtful. (Or you could shoplift it, which is not wholly unlike photocopying music.) Sadly, it's not so easy to copy or manufacture metal tools, so you're outta luck: gotta pony up the dough for a whole set just to recover the one size you lost through no fault of the manufacturer. Rats. Gotta be more careful next time. > 3) The publication goes out of print So the one missing piece to complete your collectable set of Beanie Babies went out of production and you decide, in your wisdom, that the Ebay aftermarket is just too much trouble for you. You could try making your own, I suppose. Good luck. But since the picture of the Beanie Baby sitting next to its brethren just doesn't satisfy, you're pretty much over a barrel: gotta find someone willing to part with theirs, perhaps for a premium price. At least with copyrighted works, once the piece falls into the public domain, you're welcome to copy it at will. That's how Dover publications work. > I pay for everything I use, but I do believe that publishers have > brought a fair amount of this attitude upon themselves. I disagree. Publishers are in business to provide marketable items for the public to buy, profitably in the end. They are awarded by law an extended "right to copy" -- a copyright -- to recoup the costs of preparing editions for print. Unless the particular edition is a bona fide "hit," the time it takes to recover the set-up costs can be quite long. After that, it's gravy (except of course for the material costs, and distribution costs, and advertising costs, and royalties, etc.) Copyright laws, which have existed for hundreds of years, partly acknowledge that fact. Policing their works is a further burden on copyright holders, and many forego it. As a publisher, having been in business now for ten years, I know personally that the amount of time it takes me from start to finish so that you can hold one of my editions in your hands is considerable, and the profit I make from individual sales takes a long time to add up to a profitable edition. Thus far, if I were being paid on an hourly basis for my effort at, say, a measly $10 per hr., none of my editions have yet to make me any profit (on print sales alone, anyway). In time, perhaps some of the works in my catalog will be profitable (which in turn support the unprofitable ones). But considering the niche market I serve, I don't really expect sales in the thousands or even much gratitude for my efforts to add to the repertoire. Most people are happier griping that I don't deserve the fruits of my own labor (out of a woefully inadequate appreciation of the nature of both publishing and copyright) and that any attempt to lawfully enforce my copyrights is tantamount to harassing the infringer. The thing that's killing sheet music publishing, and everyone knows it, is the photocopier. If scores and parts were more like books in their physical properties, no one would bother. But the ease of use and relatively good results from a standard photocopier are too tempting except for the same folks who declare ALL their income on their tax forms. Most of us fall waaay short of that level of personal integrity. Ironically, the proliferation of small presses such as mine in the past decade is not a sign of how healthy the music publishing industry is. The major publishers such as Leduc, Schirmer, Peters, Fischer, Breitkopf & Haertel are all struggling. They make money on sales to institutional buyers like orchestras, school bands, and libraries, but the storefront sheet music seller intended for the individual is all but dead. It's all warehouse sales now. The latecomers to the industry typical have far poorer quality of product to sell, tend go into and out of business quickly (when it's discovered that it's more trouble than it's worth, at least on the short term), and are plagued by technical bugs every time the software or hardware changes. They're garage, dining room, or basement operations without the large capital and personnel resources with which to solve ongoing production problems. Still, there are a few of us committed to the endeavor, mostly out of a love of the art and a view of prosperity (not profit). If you find things in my catalog that work for you, that's worth a few dollars to support, no? Robert Holland, Publisher Briar Music Press briar@rcn.com http://www.EnsPub.com/bmp.htm From: Eric & Candice Swanson Reply-To: Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:56:05 -0600 To: Jim Robins Cc: Trombone Mailing List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Loud Orchestra Cartoon Jim Robins wrote: >Hi Listers, > >A while back, some posted a URL to Lennie Peterson's satirical take on >what happens when conductors ask trombones to play a section louder. I >know I've seen the comic on the Trombone.org webpage, but can never >locate it when I want to. Can anyone help me out? > > Jim, You might find out about it at http://www.planetlennie.com Eric From: Craig Parmerlee Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:18:57 -0500 To: Robert Holland Cc: "Trb. List" Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Missing part Are you selling your intellectual property or are you selling the paper? If you charge me a fair price for the paper, then I won't mind ordering 3 extra sets at, say, 2 cents a page. However, I'm pretty sure you aren't selling the paper. I believe you are selling fruits of your intellectual process. If I spill coffee on the paper that has absolutely nothing to do with the intellectual process. Robert Holland wrote: > Craig Parmerlee wrote: > >> Moreover, the utter absurdity of the copyright laws is a major factor >> it the complete disregard most Americans pay to copyrighted >> material. When people don't believe laws are fair, they don't abide >> by them. It is absolutely preposterous that I can't legally keep a >> copy of music I have purchased in case: > > > The operative word here is "believe." The complexity of copyright law > is at least in part due to the nebulous nature of intellectual > property. The disregard for it is due to the ease of making photocopies. > >> 1) I spill a cup of coffee on it > > > OK, so you take your purchase home and in the course of its use you > damage it, rendering it damaged or useless. Try the "preposterous" > argument when you spill your coffee on your trombone instead, ruining > the lacquer. To repairman: "I already paid for the trombone. Why do I > have to pay for repairs?" Or to take an example closer to home, you > were reading your ITA Journal in the bathtub and mistakenly dropped it > in. All the pages stuck together and you could no longer read it. > Who's on the hook for the replacement copy, since a photocopy would be > clearly inferior and largely pointless. > >> 2) I lose one of the parts > > > Music is typically sold as the score alone (intended for study) or as > score and parts (intended for performance). The latter is sold as a > set. Maybe the nice folks at Sears will allow you to replace the sole > size on your ratchet set that you dropped into your engine, but it's > doubtful. (Or you could shoplift it, which is not wholly unlike > photocopying music.) Sadly, it's not so easy to copy or manufacture > metal tools, so you're outta luck: gotta pony up the dough for a whole > set just to recover the one size you lost through no fault of the > manufacturer. Rats. Gotta be more careful next time. > >> 3) The publication goes out of print > > > So the one missing piece to complete your collectable set of Beanie > Babies went out of production and you decide, in your wisdom, that the > Ebay aftermarket is just too much trouble for you. You could try > making your own, I suppose. Good luck. But since the picture of the > Beanie Baby sitting next to its brethren just doesn't satisfy, you're > pretty much over a barrel: gotta find someone willing to part with > theirs, perhaps for a premium price. At least with copyrighted works, > once the piece falls into the public domain, you're welcome to copy it > at will. That's how Dover publications work. > >> I pay for everything I use, but I do believe that publishers have >> brought a fair amount of this attitude upon themselves. > > > I disagree. Publishers are in business to provide marketable items for > the public to buy, profitably in the end. They are awarded by law an > extended "right to copy" -- a copyright -- to recoup the costs of > preparing editions for print. Unless the particular edition is a bona > fide "hit," the time it takes to recover the set-up costs can be quite > long. After that, it's gravy (except of course for the material costs, > and distribution costs, and advertising costs, and royalties, etc.) > Copyright laws, which have existed for hundreds of years, partly > acknowledge that fact. Policing their works is a further burden on > copyright holders, and many forego it. > > As a publisher, having been in business now for ten years, I know > personally that the amount of time it takes me from start to finish so > that you can hold one of my editions in your hands is considerable, > and the profit I make from individual sales takes a long time to add > up to a profitable edition. Thus far, if I were being paid on an > hourly basis for my effort at, say, a measly $10 per hr., none of my > editions have yet to make me any profit (on print sales alone, > anyway). In time, perhaps some of the works in my catalog will be > profitable (which in turn support the unprofitable ones). But > considering the niche market I serve, I don't really expect sales in > the thousands or even much gratitude for my efforts to add to the > repertoire. Most people are happier griping that I don't deserve the > fruits of my own labor (out of a woefully inadequate appreciation of > the nature of both publishing and copyright) and that any attempt to > lawfully enforce my copyrights is tantamount to harassing the infringer. > > The thing that's killing sheet music publishing, and everyone knows > it, is the photocopier. If scores and parts were more like books in > their physical properties, no one would bother. But the ease of use > and relatively good results from a standard photocopier are too > tempting except for the same folks who declare ALL their income on > their tax forms. Most of us fall waaay short of that level of personal > integrity. > > Ironically, the proliferation of small presses such as mine in the > past decade is not a sign of how healthy the music publishing industry > is. The major publishers such as Leduc, Schirmer, Peters, Fischer, > Breitkopf & Haertel are all struggling. They make money on sales to > institutional buyers like orchestras, school bands, and libraries, but > the storefront sheet music seller intended for the individual is all > but dead. It's all warehouse sales now. The latecomers to the industry > typical have far poorer quality of product to sell, tend go into and > out of business quickly (when it's discovered that it's more trouble > than it's worth, at least on the short term), and are plagued by > technical bugs every time the software or hardware changes. They're > garage, dining room, or basement operations without the large capital > and personnel resources with which to solve ongoing production > problems. Still, there are a few of us committed to the endeavor, > mostly out of a love of the art and a view of prosperity (not profit). > If you find things in my catalog that work for you, that's worth a few > dollars to support, no? > > Robert Holland, Publisher > Briar Music Press > briar@rcn.com > http://www.EnsPub.com/bmp.htm > > _______________________________________________ > Trombone-l mailing list > Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l > > From: Adrian Drover Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:22:24 -0000 To: Craig Parmerlee , Trombone List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Missing part From: "Craig Parmerlee" > Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD wrote: > >>Logic in my own mind does not always equate to legality in a broader >>sense, >>I realize. >> > Moreover, the utter absurdity of the copyright laws is a major factor it > the complete disregard most Americans pay to copyrighted material. When > people don't believe laws are fair, they don't abide by them. It is > absolutely preposterous that I can't legally keep a copy of music I have > purchased in case: > > 1) I spill a cup of coffee on it > > 2) I lose one of the parts > > 3) The publication goes out of print > > I pay for everything I use, but I do believe that publishers have brought > a fair amount of this attitude upon themselves. What if you buy a set of band parts and discover that you have one more clarinet than the parts supplied? Are you obligated to buy another full set? Also, what if your band has an alto clarinet, but a part for that instrument is not included in the score? Are you not allowed to make up a part yourself? Publishers need to be sensible about such things. I've heard of a publisher somewhere in the UK that, in order to keep the price down, supplies one copy only of each part, with the proviso that you can make as many copies as you need for your own band only. That sounds like a sensible and fair idea to me. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: Dean McCarty Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:54:50 -0600 To: Jim Robins Cc: Trombone Mailing List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Loud Orchestra Cartoon Here's the link. http://trombone.org/sulek/trombones-louder.gif Dean McCarty <>< freelance trombonist, Houston area Director of Bands, Kelly High School - Beaumont, Tx. Director of Instrumental Ministries, FBC - Vidor, Tx. bassbone@gt.rr.com (409) 681-9976 > Jim Robins wrote: > >>Hi Listers, >> >>A while back, some posted a URL to Lennie Peterson's satirical take on >>what happens when conductors ask trombones to play a section louder. I >>know I've seen the comic on the Trombone.org webpage, but can never >>locate it when I want to. Can anyone help me out? >> From: Jackie Harris-Stone Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 07:08:44 -0800 (PST) To: Andy Fugate , Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Sharpness in lower register Have you tried Sam's exercises- first play the note, and while playing it remove the mouthpiece from the trombone, and see if the pitch is the same- my guess is that your buzz may be sharp, too. Then remove the mouthpiece from the lips while buzzing, and see if your free buzz is sharp. Try doing it in reverse- free buzz to mouthpiece to horn- to start correcting it. Then just play the note as is- (it's easy to let excess tension creep in your lips when started from free buzzing- Sam, any ideas?), and voila! a centered, beautiful tone. Jackie Harris Stone Bass trombone, Orquesta sinfonica de Monterrey Andy Fugate wrote: What would cause a player to play sharp in the lower register - specifically in the first partial (not pedal tone)? Is it an embouchure problem, breath support issue, or perhaps not opening the mouth enough? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated? -Andy Fugate _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From: Eric Edwards Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:32:51 -0700 To: Trombone-L Subject: FW: [Trombone-l] Missing part The argument about the mechanics tools doesn't hold water in my opinion. Because, yes you can buy just the 1/2' drive-13/16" socket that disappeared the last time you needed it. It probably will cost you more than what the entire set adds up to, but that's just a basic fact of life, individual parts will cost you more than the set. Just try to buy a battery for your cordless drill, it will probably cost you more than the drill itself. It seems ridiculously difficult, or sometimes impossible to buy just one part from certain pieces of music. Anyway. Good Morning All! Have a great weekend. Eric -----Original Message----- From: trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces@samford.edu] On Behalf Of Adrian Drover Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 3:22 AM To: Craig Parmerlee; Trombone List Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Missing part From: "Craig Parmerlee" > Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD wrote: > >>Logic in my own mind does not always equate to legality in a broader >>sense, I realize. >> > Moreover, the utter absurdity of the copyright laws is a major factor > it the complete disregard most Americans pay to copyrighted material. > When people don't believe laws are fair, they don't abide by them. It > is absolutely preposterous that I can't legally keep a copy of music I > have purchased in case: > > 1) I spill a cup of coffee on it > > 2) I lose one of the parts > > 3) The publication goes out of print > > I pay for everything I use, but I do believe that publishers have > brought a fair amount of this attitude upon themselves. What if you buy a set of band parts and discover that you have one more clarinet than the parts supplied? Are you obligated to buy another full set? Also, what if your band has an alto clarinet, but a part for that instrument is not included in the score? Are you not allowed to make up a part yourself? Publishers need to be sensible about such things. I've heard of a publisher somewhere in the UK that, in order to keep the price down, supplies one copy only of each part, with the proviso that you can make as many copies as you need for your own band only. That sounds like a sensible and fair idea to me. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l From: Adrian Drover Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:33:14 -0000 To: Jackie Harris-Stone , Andy Fugate , Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Sharpness in lower register From: "Jackie Harris-Stone" > Have you tried Sam's exercises- first play the note, and while playing it > remove the mouthpiece from the trombone, and see if the pitch is the same- > my guess is that your buzz may be sharp, too. Then remove the mouthpiece > from the lips > while buzzing, and see if your free buzz is sharp. Then remove your lips from your face. If it goes flat, you need surgery. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: Eric Edwards Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:39:19 -0700 To: Trombone-L Subject: [Trombone-l] New quintet Hi all, someone on another list just posted this link. www.manhattanbrassquintet.org Looks pretty heavy! Dave Taylor, Lew Soloff just to name a few. Thanks Eric From: Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:44:13 EST To: Subject: Re: FW: [Trombone-l] Missing part Boy this thread is getting a lot of play. Music publishers that I have dealt with have all been great about supplying lost or missing parts. When replacing a part like this, it's obvious the the composition in question is not being stolen. It's when someone copies an entire piece, that the companies get upset. We need to support each other in this business, otherwise it will go away. This also includes the recording industry, where I get tired of people who burn countless numbers of CDs because they don't want to pay fo them. And I'm not talking about out of print items, I'm talking about recordings that are readily available. Jim Bermann From: Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:07:45 EST To: , , , Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Sharpness in lower register Before surgery .... I like Adrian Drovers suggestion. Guiness. beldon wade From: Daniel Pliskin Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:57:49 +0000 To: Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Missing part It seems odd to me that copyright law is so different from patent law. In patent law, anyone can copy anybodyās patent, as long as they donāt try to sell that copy. Furthermore, defense of that patent is up to the patent holder. So essentially, a patent is only as good as your ability to pay your own legal fees. As for copying music, if I were a junior high school bandleader, Iād surely pass out copies. Maybe Iād trust high schoolers with the originals and maybe not. I have a CD that contains several Real Books. Iām surely going to print the pages that I want to practice, not try to play trombone, while staring at the monitor (although it might be fun to watch the image squirm, when I hit certain notes). So, Iād say that the main problem is in asking for a copy in a public forum, like this list-serve. And what you do with your own music, in the face of having easy access to photo-copy machines, is a different story. Not too long ago, there was a considerable investment in publishing music. A music publisher needed to make plates and use a printing press in order to print music. Now music can all be stored on a hard drive and printed as needed. That isnāt to say that the intellectual property has lost its value but the printed paper sure has. Essentially this all comes down to something that the Internet has been struggling with for a many years: How do you collect pennies or fractions of a penny, every time someone accesses your intellectual property. When/If we figure that out, weāll be able to print parts any time we want. DanP _______________________________________________ Trombone-l mailing list Trombone-l@maillists.samford.edu http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l