Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 285 Date: Saturday, January 22, 2005 12:01 AM From: Multiple recipients of list To: Multiple recipients of list TROMBONE-L Digest 285 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? by "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" 2) Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? by Earl Needham 3) Need a pianist in Fairfax, Virginia area by "prbrass@juno.com" 4) Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? by Raymond Horton 5) Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? by 6) Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? by 7) Quartet music for a memorial by "David Shriver" 8) Re: Quartet music for a memorial by 9) Re: Quartet music for a memorial by 10) Re: Quartet music for a memorial by Jeff Albert 11) Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? by Raymond Horton 12) Re: Quartet music for a memorial by Kavett@aol.com From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:47:58 +0100 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3639] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? I had a thought this morning while doing my usual warmup before work. Why doesn't the trombone have that Eb/D series? And how do I know that it doesn't, if I've never tried? So I spent some time trying to play D or Eb below the staff in first with no trigger. Of course I can lip those notes, but I was trying to feel for a weak resonance down there that might match the obvious one on the euphonium, a place where it wants to slot at least a lit bit. It may be there, but I can't be sure I'm not just fooling myself wanting it to be there. Many of you (okay, most of you ) are far more skilled than I. Can any of you detect that note? And maybe guess whether it is an Eb or a D? On my horn it is either weak or not there, of course that is true of some euphs as well, so there may be another interaction. -----Original Message----- From: Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 08:01 To: Steve Gamble; TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3632] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) Yes, it was at first, maybe even C at those temperatures. I had to go to the attic to put away the Christmas tree anyway (brrrh!) so I brought the euph down with me, set it on the bathroom floor to warm up. (This is Germany, bathroom floors are commonly heated. Very pleasant.) I played it and tuned it, played it and tuned it. Closed my eyes, played ten long tones, looked at the tuner, repeat. Honestly, I can't tell. It's an Eb 20 cents flat, or a D 30 cents sharp. Yes, I know those two tones are not the same. It feels like it slots in two different places very close to each other. Of the two the D might have the edge in tone but it's beyond my abilities to really tell. Of course I haven't played the thing in a couple of years, and the only mouthpiece I could find that fit the leadpipe was a small shank 6.5AL, so operator error may be getting in the way. Very interesting observation from Ray, thank you. I will no longer assume that series is in Eb, it is just as reasonable, maybe more reasonable, to call it D. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Gamble [mailto:sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 15:16 To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3629] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) Hey Tim, If you go up to your attic right now and give that note a try right away, it'll probably be a D. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu [mailto:owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu] On Behalf Of Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:59 PM To: Raymond Horton; TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3626] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) The falset series can be in D? I didn't know that, and maybe I didn't listen closely enough. Tuba players talk about it as being in Eb, and I think I just assumed the euph series normally was as well. Tuba players actually make use of those notes, I understand, whereas euphers apparently do not. My euph is in the attic and it's cold up there, but I guess I gotta climb up and put it on a tuner and see if it's a flat Eb, a sharp D, or something else. I actually played euph a couple of years with a concert band and never knew if it had those notes or not (it was an older Besson so it probably did.) I never thought to try. Years later I acquired a Martin and while trying to lip false notes like on a trombone (impossible) I discovered that series that slots down there. Then talking to other tuba players and euphers I found it had been common knowledge, I just never asked. Still don't know why it exists, nor why some tuba/euphs have it and others don't. If you haven't tried it, it is an interesting phenomenon. Outside the slot it is about ten times harder to lip a false tone than on trombone, but within the slot it feels like a real note. -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Horton [mailto:rayhorton@insightbb.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 20:24 To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Cc: Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3619] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) One point - If you mean by "the infamous Eb partial series" you are talking about what some call the "falset notes" below the first overtone, by which most Bbb tubas will have an open low Eb above the pedal Bb, I find that just about every euphonium I have tried will settle that falset note on a open D rather than an Eb. Raymond Horton, Bass Trombonist and Euphoniumist, Louisville Orchestra Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD wrote: Then of course there is the >infamous Eb partial series, present on some baritones and not on others for >reasons not explained. > From: Earl Needham Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:53:10 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3640] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? At 11:47 PM 1/20/2005, Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD wrote: >I had a thought this morning while doing my usual warmup before work. > >Why doesn't the trombone have that Eb/D series? And how do I know that it >doesn't, if I've never tried? I tried some years ago and never could find it. Tried on Conn 88H, King Duo Gravis, old Cleveland peashooter, and a Conn -- uh -- 62H??? Maybe, it's been almost 30 years for that one. At any rate, I never found it. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info From: "prbrass@juno.com" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:20:55 GMT To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3641] Need a pianist in Fairfax, Virginia area Dear trombone colleagues in the Washington, DC area, I need your advice. The Salvation Army in Fairfax, Virginia is looking for a part time pianist to assist our music program. Duties include accompanying our voice ensemble, and giving piano lessons as well. It may include accompanying trombone solos, and other other brass instruments if I can get away with it. If you know a pianist in the Fairfax, Virginia area who might be interested, please contact me or the address shown below. Captain Vic Tidmand Captain Ellen Tidmand The Salvation Army 4915 Ox Road Fairfax, Virginia 22030 1-703-385-8700 I also ask trombone subscribers to tell the typical hourly rates a pianist may charge for accompanying ensembles and solo instruments. We need to figure out our budget for this season, at least until Summer. Please provide me feedback as soon as possible. I am presiding my music council meeting this coming Sunday to address the situation. Attentively, Luis A. Torres 571-235-3712 From: Raymond Horton Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:31:39 -0500 To: Cc: , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3642] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? On trumpets and trombones the falset series generally starts on a minor 3rd from the first overtone (bass clef bottom line G can be played in first position on a Bb trombone). Must be something to do with the cylindrical bore. Raymond Horton Earl Needham wrote: > At 11:47 PM 1/20/2005, Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD > wrote: > >> I had a thought this morning while doing my usual warmup before work. >> >> Why doesn't the trombone have that Eb/D series? And how do I know >> that it >> doesn't, if I've never tried? > > > I tried some years ago and never could find it. Tried on Conn > 88H, King Duo Gravis, old Cleveland peashooter, and a Conn -- uh -- > 62H??? Maybe, it's been almost 30 years for that one. At any rate, I > never found it. > > Earl > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info > > From: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:58:17 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3643] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? When I first started playing "low bone", I was playing the bass book in high school - on a triggerless Couesnon Lafayette peashooter. What I learned to do quickly, was play as if there was a "fake" range on F. While F and E stank, I had them anyway on the slide. Eb was fairly pathetic. Get to C, however, and you could honk it pretty well, and with good stability. Still can do it, but much easier on small trombones than on large-bore trombones. Try it. Just hold your slide in 6th, and lip gliss from F down to C. But it's still easier with triggers :-) J.c.S. ---- Raymond Horton wrote: > On trumpets and trombones the falset series generally starts on a minor > 3rd from the first overtone (bass clef bottom line G can be played in > first position on a Bb trombone). Must be something to do with the > cylindrical bore. > > Raymond Horton > > Earl Needham wrote: > > > At 11:47 PM 1/20/2005, Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD > > wrote: > > > >> I had a thought this morning while doing my usual warmup before work. > >> > >> Why doesn't the trombone have that Eb/D series? And how do I know > >> that it > >> doesn't, if I've never tried? > > > > > > I tried some years ago and never could find it. Tried on Conn > > 88H, King Duo Gravis, old Cleveland peashooter, and a Conn -- uh -- > > 62H??? Maybe, it's been almost 30 years for that one. At any rate, I > > never found it. > > > > Earl > > > > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > > http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info > > > > > From: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:02:23 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3644] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? Oh - and the trumpets "fake note" is a real pedal - it's just not at the octave. The proportions of the instrument (particularly the bell) do not allow for tuning the first overtone to the octave. ---- Raymond Horton wrote: > On trumpets and trombones the falset series generally starts on a minor > 3rd from the first overtone (bass clef bottom line G can be played in > first position on a Bb trombone). Must be something to do with the > cylindrical bore. > > Raymond Horton > > Earl Needham wrote: > > > At 11:47 PM 1/20/2005, Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD > > wrote: > > > >> I had a thought this morning while doing my usual warmup before work. > >> > >> Why doesn't the trombone have that Eb/D series? And how do I know > >> that it > >> doesn't, if I've never tried? > > > > > > I tried some years ago and never could find it. Tried on Conn > > 88H, King Duo Gravis, old Cleveland peashooter, and a Conn -- uh -- > > 62H??? Maybe, it's been almost 30 years for that one. At any rate, I > > never found it. > > > > Earl > > > > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > > http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info > > > > > From: David Shriver Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:59:20 -0500 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3645] Quartet music for a memorial Hello everyone, My trombone quartet has been asked to play at the memorial service for a long time member of the Marshall University music faculty. Dr. Balshaw had been on the faculty at Marshall for 40 years. After serving in just about every position possible (chairmen of the department, dean of the college, professor, conductor, mentor) he returned to the teaching faculty to conduct the orchestra and teach advanced analysis and music history. Our student trombone quartet will be playing at his memorial service and we need some appropriate music to play. I would prefer classical selections since that was Dr. Balshaw's love. Does anyone have any recommendations? Clear Skies, Dave Shriver "Slick Dave and the Sliders Trombone Quartet" From: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:14:01 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3646] Re: Quartet music for a memorial The Equali by Betthoven. It was good enough for him... J.c. ---- David Shriver wrote: > Hello everyone, > > My trombone quartet has been asked to play at the memorial service for a > long time member of the Marshall University music faculty. Dr. Balshaw had > been on the faculty at Marshall for 40 years. After serving in just about > every position possible (chairmen of the department, dean of the college, > professor, conductor, mentor) he returned to the teaching faculty to conduct > the orchestra and teach advanced analysis and music history. > > Our student trombone quartet will be playing at his memorial service and we > need some appropriate music to play. I would prefer classical selections > since that was Dr. Balshaw's love. > > Does anyone have any recommendations? > > Clear Skies, > Dave Shriver > "Slick Dave and the Sliders Trombone Quartet" > > From: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:14:37 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3647] Re: Quartet music for a memorial Oh, and my own favorite - Cruxifixus (sp?) by Lotti J.c.S. ---- David Shriver wrote: > Hello everyone, > > My trombone quartet has been asked to play at the memorial service for a > long time member of the Marshall University music faculty. Dr. Balshaw had > been on the faculty at Marshall for 40 years. After serving in just about > every position possible (chairmen of the department, dean of the college, > professor, conductor, mentor) he returned to the teaching faculty to conduct > the orchestra and teach advanced analysis and music history. > > Our student trombone quartet will be playing at his memorial service and we > need some appropriate music to play. I would prefer classical selections > since that was Dr. Balshaw's love. > > Does anyone have any recommendations? > > Clear Skies, > Dave Shriver > "Slick Dave and the Sliders Trombone Quartet" > > From: Jeff Albert Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:42:19 -0600 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3648] Re: Quartet music for a memorial I like the Premru, In Memoriam. Jeff David Shriver wrote: >Hello everyone, > >My trombone quartet has been asked to play at the memorial service for a >long time member of the Marshall University music faculty. Dr. Balshaw had >been on the faculty at Marshall for 40 years. After serving in just about >every position possible (chairmen of the department, dean of the college, >professor, conductor, mentor) he returned to the teaching faculty to conduct >the orchestra and teach advanced analysis and music history. > >Our student trombone quartet will be playing at his memorial service and we >need some appropriate music to play. I would prefer classical selections >since that was Dr. Balshaw's love. > >Does anyone have any recommendations? > >Clear Skies, >Dave Shriver >"Slick Dave and the Sliders Trombone Quartet" > > > > > > > > -- Jeff Albert P.O. Box 8645 Mandeville, LA 70470 (504) 782-5835 www.jeffalbert.com jeff@jeffalbert.com From: Raymond Horton Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:05:34 -0500 To: Cc: , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3649] Re: Valve alignment (was: Non-responding Baritone low register) - maybe you could help with a test? Correction! My earlier message should have read down a MAJOR third for trumpets and trombones. On Bb trombones the falset note is generally Gb in first position. Other notes can be bent into place (as thetubameister's post demonstrates) but this series will usually be most successful. Also, not that it has much to do with the falset note discussion, but I _have_ heard a number of trumpet players achieve a successful pedal note at the lower octave fundamental. These are two different series we are talking about: 1) The legitimate pedal notes which are the fundamental notes on all brass instruments (though perhaps not playable as such, in tune, on some trumpets or by some trumpet players). 2) The "falset" notes, which, according to my observations are a major third below the first overtone on most trumpets and trombones (low Gb in first), a perfect fifth below on most tubas (a low Eb on a Bb tuba) and a major 6th below on most euphoniums (a low D). RBH Raymond Horton wrote: > On trumpets and trombones the falset series generally starts on a > minor 3rd from the first overtone (bass clef bottom line G can be > played in first position on a Bb trombone). Must be something to do > with the cylindrical bore. > Raymond Horton thetubameister@adelphia.net wrote: > When I first started playing "low bone", I was playing the bass book in high school - on a triggerless Couesnon Lafayette peashooter. > >What I learned to do quickly, was play as if there was a "fake" range on F. While F and E stank, I had them anyway on the slide. Eb was fairly pathetic. Get to C, however, and you could honk it pretty well, and with good stability. > >Still can do it, but much easier on small trombones than on large-bore trombones. Try it. Just hold your slide in 6th, and lip gliss from F down to C. > >But it's still easier with triggers :-) > >Oh - and the trumpets "fake note" is a real pedal - it's just not at the octave. The proportions of the instrument (particularly the bell) do not allow for tuning the first overtone to the octave. > J.c.S. > From: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:16:11 EST To: , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3650] Re: Quartet music for a memorial Whatever else you do....suggest you finish with "Achieved Is the Glorious Work" (Haydn)...play it real soft once..then play it again...slow volume build to end....very emotional and works in this situation... Henry Kavett New Providence, NJ ............................................................ : An attachment to this post has been stripped by: : : plaintext.pl : : Original idea by Phillip Porch (ppp@theporch.com) : : Written by Stephen Modena, AB4EL (shimshon@theporch.com) : : Modifications by Mearl Danner, (jmdanner@samford.edu) : : All rights reserved. : ............................................................