Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 276 Date: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:01 AM From: Multiple recipients of list To: Multiple recipients of list TROMBONE-L Digest 276 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) by "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" 2) Re: 4th valve for Olds Tuba by "J & D Sellmansberger" 3) ER20s was Re: Re: Ear Protection by Jeff Albert 4) Re: Ear Protection by "Steve Gamble" 5) Re: Ear Protection by "Daniel Pliskin" 6) Re: ER20s was Re: Re: Ear Protection by Al MacDonald 7) Alumni Band Weekend by BassBonist@aol.com From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:05:17 +0100 To: Chip Tingle Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3578] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) I hardly ever play in an amplified setting, I'm lucky. The last time I did, the sound guys were about half way through getting all the microphones set up when the director jumped on stage and started re-arranging them. He didn't ask, just grabbed. You could see the sound guys start to get pissed, then shrug and say screw it, who cares. I don't know if that particular sound crew had a clue or not, and we'll never know. The director probably had some thought in mind, like maybe "sound guys never get clarinets right, I'll put it closer," but if he'd just talked to them both groups might have learned something. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to ask for a suggestion or opinion, it's good human relations if nothing else. Good point, Chip. The sound guys are human, too, and you can talk to them. Loudly and slowly, of course. -----Original Message----- From: Chip Tingle [mailto:musichub@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 19:09 To: Joe L. Norcross; basstrb3@comcast.net; Chris Tune; craig@acticalc.com; Angie Brunk Cc: BassBonist@aol.com; TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3572] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) I realize this thread has been a good, ongoing chuckle, but I thought I would jump in to say making friends with, and taking an interest in the work of your sound man can be a very good thing. Amazingly enough, there are some very good ones out there who approach their gig like any of the rest of us - trying to make the best music possible on our axes. Granted, there are many lizards...but aren't there also many lizards on our beloved slushpump? What mic and why, what eq settings and why, any effects and why, monitor placement and mix...are all good starting points for a discussion with someone who has such a huge potential impact on how you sound and feel on a gig. From: J & D Sellmansberger Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:33:41 -0600 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3579] Re: 4th valve for Olds Tuba I'm talkin' through my hat here - because I'm not sure at all...but some American front-actions' 4th piston configurations are the same as #2 (I believe that King is this way - and King, Reynolds, and Olds have a very strong relationship of similarity.) If a #2 will indeed do, the only thing that I can suggest is to look for a junker Olds/Reynolds sousa valveset on eBay (for instance, off of an old hopeless-condition fiberglass) and use the #2 piston for your #4. Assuming you have the later-1970's "small bore" Olds tuba (that, in 1980, became a "Bach" instrument) the sousaphone valves will have a larger bore (bigger port holes), but the ports in the small bore tuba pistons should still correspond to the holes in the "small bore" instrument, and you should be able to play it just fine...again, making the HUGE assumption that #2 and #4 are the same valve on these instruments. Good luck! -Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric & Candice Swanson" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 8:31 PM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3575] Re: 4th valve for Olds Tuba > eliezer aharoni wrote: > >>Hi listers >>Can anybody help: >>I am looking for a 4th valve for Olds upright tuba (original part is >>lost). >>Does anybody have an idea where can I obtain such a unit? >> >> > > I did some digging. That horn, if it was made in Fullerton, California, > should be the model O-99. It is the same tuba as the current (or recent) > Bach model 879. Selmer (Bach) bought the old Olds factory and makes some > of the former Olds models (baritones, tubas, and marching horns) as Bach > models now. Lucky for you. Your local repair shop should be able to > order the piston, and any missing valve caps etc. from Conn-Selmer or > Allied Supply. They show that the 3rd and 4th pistons are actually the > same even. > > Maybe some of the repair technicians on this list will verify that I am > correct. J.c.? Joe? Eric E.? > > Eric Swanson > From: Jeff Albert Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:06:30 -0600 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3580] ER20s was Re: Re: Ear Protection Eric, I use the ER20s also, and they are the best solution I have found, especially for the money. I haven't tried the custom ones. According to the manufacturers literature, the reason they have a 12 db marking is that the system that govt requires for determining that rating takes into account people wearing them improperly. That 12 db rating is supposed to be the average sound suppression experience by every moron that tries to use the plugs (my phrase not theirs). I have found that if I really seal them off I can get to the point that regular conversation is hard to hear, so it all depends on how you insert them. As for playing with them in, it's an acquired taste. The more you do it, the more natural it becomes. I forced myself to deal with it for a while because I knew I had to. Jeff Eric & Candice Swanson wrote: > >>>> Eric Swanson wrote: >>>> It seems that they are starting to turn the volume up pretty loud in >>>> movie theaters now too. I think americans are making themselves >>>> deaf and it is compounding. I just ordered some new ear plugs that >>>> are supposed to cut off 20 dB and still allow a a normal sound. I >>>> will post later after I have tried them out. >>> >>> > > I wrote this a few weeks ago. I'm just now getting around to > following up. > > I got these new earplugs, made by Etymotic Research, Inc., model > ER20. I bought them from Brasswind, they are in their catalog or on > their web site, $13.99. They are supposed to "reduce the overall > sound 20 decibels evenly across all frequencies. Speech and music > stay clear, just quieter, like turning down the volume." > > I used them for a few days to see how they felt and to block out our > timpani player, who is right behind me. I found that the claims were > pretty much accurate. I could hear everything in the orchestra pretty > well, but it was a little softer. To me it sounded about 10 to 20 > percent softer. When I was playing, I was less satisfied than when I > was just listening. There was some of the usual sensations you > usually experience when playing with ear plugs in (I had trouble > hearing myself), but it was not as bad as with other earplugs. > > So, all I can say is, earplugs are always a drag to wear, but if you > are in a situation where you really need to wear plugs these are > better than any others I have used. The manufacturer claims that they > provide 20dB of sound reduction, but the government required labeling > says they reduce 12 dB. I thought that was kind of odd. If you play > in a really loud band, they might not provide enough protection. But > to just knock down 12-20 decibels off at a concert or movie they > should be pretty good because the music will still sound good. > > My opinion, > > Eric Swanson > > > > > -- Jeff Albert P.O. Box 8645 Mandeville, LA 70470 (504) 782-5835 www.jeffalbert.com jeff@jeffalbert.com From: Steve Gamble Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:06:16 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3581] Re: Ear Protection I use the ER 20's mostly because I'm too cheap to pay for the expensive custom plugs that several of our musicians use (and love). I think the ER 20 plugs work extremely well for the price. They do give you a little of that muffled sound in your head experience; if you have to use them it's best to practice with them some, too. If you can position yourself in the ensemble so that the offending sound source is coming mostly from one side or the other, you can play with just one plug and the muffled quality it significantly reduced. These plugs are cheap enough so you can have a few sets around. That way you don't get caught without protection. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu [mailto:owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu] On Behalf Of Eric & Candice Swanson Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:00 PM To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3576] Re: Ear Protection >>> Eric Swanson wrote: >>> It seems that they are starting to turn the volume up pretty loud in >>> movie theaters now too. I think americans are making themselves >>> deaf and it is compounding. I just ordered some new ear plugs that >>> are supposed to cut off 20 dB and still allow a a normal sound. I >>> will post later after I have tried them out. >> I wrote this a few weeks ago. I'm just now getting around to following up. I got these new earplugs, made by Etymotic Research, Inc., model ER20. I bought them from Brasswind, they are in their catalog or on their web site, $13.99. They are supposed to "reduce the overall sound 20 decibels evenly across all frequencies. Speech and music stay clear, just quieter, like turning down the volume." I used them for a few days to see how they felt and to block out our timpani player, who is right behind me. I found that the claims were pretty much accurate. I could hear everything in the orchestra pretty well, but it was a little softer. To me it sounded about 10 to 20 percent softer. When I was playing, I was less satisfied than when I was just listening. There was some of the usual sensations you usually experience when playing with ear plugs in (I had trouble hearing myself), but it was not as bad as with other earplugs. So, all I can say is, earplugs are always a drag to wear, but if you are in a situation where you really need to wear plugs these are better than any others I have used. The manufacturer claims that they provide 20dB of sound reduction, but the government required labeling says they reduce 12 dB. I thought that was kind of odd. If you play in a really loud band, they might not provide enough protection. But to just knock down 12-20 decibels off at a concert or movie they should be pretty good because the music will still sound good. My opinion, Eric Swanson From: Daniel Pliskin Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:28:22 +0000 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3582] Re: Ear Protection The biggest problem I have with loud sounds is being caught off guard, without earplugs. If I know Iām going to be taking the subway, I usually pack some foam plugs. But if the guys ask me to go out with them for a drink, after work, then I may well be putting myself into an uncomfortably loud situation. I find that if you tare a strip of paper napkin and roll up, so that itās about the size of your ear canal, it makes a pretty good earplug, with pretty flat frequency response. If the napkin isnāt bug enough, use two strips or fold a wider strip lengthwise. DanP From: Al MacDonald Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:25:08 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3583] Re: ER20s was Re: Re: Ear Protection I have a pair or ER-20s which I used until I got the custom etymotics. The custom plugs fit better. They also give the option of a 9 db filter, which takes the edge off without attenuating too much. The ER-20s are too much for a lot of situations, but I would use them again if in an extremely loud situation. Both are in the bag, as are OSHA approved foam plugs (construction worker type) for really bad situations. I've only used the foam plugs when listening, not when playing. When all I had was the ER-20s I would usually pull them out partially to reduce the attenuation. YMMV, Al From: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:55:08 EST To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3584] Alumni Band Weekend My past weekend was very friendly, interesting, fun, funny and musically rewarding. The third annual meeting of the Cal State Fullerton Alumni Band (Wind Ensemble) was attended by a few people I knew, many others that attended that college years after me but even then I knew a couple of them as well from gigs and other opportunities. This was my second time and it was a better band overall than last year. It's great to see people who have been through the same experiences, toured together, had plenty of stories to tell and life after college experiences to share. The only real disappointments were not seeing those who could not attend (due to professional performing commitments) and the director of the bands, Benton Minor, who passed away two years ago. Going out to lunch during the first rehearsal day it seemed odd that he was not there. What was interesting for me was some literature that I had either not played while in college or newer peices that I had not known of. One particular work was "An American Elegy" written for the victims and surviving families of the Columbine tragedy. I was glad I had the chance to play on that one. Some of the best one-liners I've heard in a long time came from the current director of bands, Dr. Mitch Fennell (a bass trombonist). Too many funny moments to recall but I will say that humor is a great way to help some folks relax who've maybe not kept their chops up over the years. There were in all about five conductors and the programs had lots of variety and was put together in record time. Kudos to all the stick wavers. It was also very exciting to hear the consitent success of the Wind Ensemble program at Cal State Fullerton. Such a cross-section of people there, ranging in age from 23-55, and all still good musicians for the most part, able to rehearse with no egos, no lame questions, zero talking when it was time to stop and fix something. Another exciting thing (especially for future students there): The new concert hall and rehearsal rooms are nearing completion, due to officially open January, 2006 with gala dedicatory concerts. This is a huge development for an already recognised music school. Now the music department will not have to share stage space with the theater dept. and the new concert hall is impressively sized. (The outer walls and roof are all up so it's very easy to imagine the amount of space the hall will have inside.) Can't wait until next year when the Alumni will be able to perform in the new hall! Matt Varho "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them. 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