Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 275 Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:01 AM From: Multiple recipients of list To: Multiple recipients of list TROMBONE-L Digest 275 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) 4th valve for Olds Tuba by eanogmus@netvision.net.il (eliezer aharoni) 2) Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) by "Chip Tingle" 3) Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) by "Daniel Pliskin" 4) Re: Trombone? Huh? - alumni ensembles by "David A. Schwartz" 5) Re: 4th valve for Olds Tuba by Eric & Candice Swanson 6) Re: Ear Protection by Eric & Candice Swanson 7) Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) by Raymond Horton From: eliezer aharoni Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:30:40 +0300 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3571] 4th valve for Olds Tuba Hi listers Can anybody help: I am looking for a 4th valve for Olds upright tuba (original part is lost). Does anybody have an idea where can I obtain such a unit? Thanks Eliezer Aharoni Bass Trombonist, Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra Author: New Method for the Modern Bass Trombone Avilable from Hickey's (USA) Warwick, MusT (England) POB 4025, Jerusalem ISRAEL 91040 Phone ++972 2 5341333 Please avoid sending documents as attachments - we use a Macintosh computer and in some cases can not convert them. From: Chip Tingle Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:09:07 -0800 To: "Joe L. Norcross" , , Chris Tune , , Angie Brunk Cc: , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3572] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) I realize this thread has been a good, ongoing chuckle, but I thought I would jump in to say making friends with, and taking an interest in the work of your sound man can be a very good thing. Amazingly enough, there are some very good ones out there who approach their gig like any of the rest of us - trying to make the best music possible on our axes. Granted, there are many lizards...but aren't there also many lizards on our beloved slushpump? What mic and why, what eq settings and why, any effects and why, monitor placement and mix...are all good starting points for a discussion with someone who has such a huge potential impact on how you sound and feel on a gig. I have the good fortune to work with a trombonist/sound engineer whom is one of the best on both axes that I know - Jeff Cressman, the bone player for Santana. His level of awareness in the entire process on a live or recording project is truly inspirational and something that I reach for each time I'm in this situation. End of sound engineer advocacy public service announcement... Cheers, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: ; "Chris Tune" ; ; "Angie Brunk" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3570] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) > Best merathod of getting the soundman, PULL HIS POWER PLUG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil Brink" > To: "Chris Tune" ; ; "Angie Brunk" > > Cc: ; > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 3:18 PM > Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3556] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) > > > > Is anybody else kinda disturbed at the tone of this latest thread? It > seems > > to me that in view of all the death and destruction we are currently > reading > > about... we might ease up on the assassination ideas. I know [or at least > > hope] that it's all in fun and blowing off steam, but sheesh! Enough is > > enough! > > > > Phil Brink > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Tune" > > To: ; "Angie Brunk" > > Cc: ; > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:17 PM > > Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3555] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) > > > > > > > Since this is mostly story telling, I guess DISCUSSING the ice-bullet is > > > OK. Did anybody note which model trombones were demolished in the test > of > > > the "trombone myth"? I've seen it a couple of times, but they just > looked > > > like rude looking student models to me. . .I couldn't really place them. > . > > > .also, I've since decided that it would be much more fun to LAUNCH A > > > ROCKET out of the bell of a trombone than to put an explosive device in > > > the bell. Seems like the flare of a bell is pretty much close to a > solid > > > surface for something with explosive force. Seems right to me. The > tail > > > of a rocket is essentially directed explosive force (that's probably > wrong > > > terminology, but you get it). I'd think you could mount that rocket to > the > > > mute and then design a mute-shaped warhead, which would take out the > > > entire area around the sound man. . .but then there would be many > > > witnesses who would point right to the particular trombone-player as the > > > murderer. > > > > > > I was thinking about the idea of a stainless steel or some other very > hard > > > and specially designed bullet and barrel system that would provide for > > > insignificant marking of the bullet. I'm not sure such a thing even > > > exists. If it does it's probably classified and only within reach of > > > intelligence people. > > > > > > Still, from what I hear, the intelligence agencies seem to want to use > > > biological agents to perform assassinations. Isn't that what happened > to > > > the fellow in Ukraine? He became ill after dining or drinking with some > > > group, which included KGB-type folk. . . > > > > > > Even if we could infect the sound guy with some horrible fatal toxin and > > > one that would be difficult to trace, this doesn't help us with the > > > current concert or gig. The infected sound guy will still crank the > > > volume for this gig. . .but he may not make it to the next one. > > > Interestingly, some people seem to survive these nasty infections. Like > > > the guy in Ukraine. > > > > > > Maybe we could have whatever we use to deal with the guy rigged up to a > > > sound level meter, sorta like the movie with Sandra Bullock in the bus. > . > > > .when the sound level of the concert reaches a certain level then the > sure > > > fire murder is to occur. . .that way the sound guy COULD save his live > by > > > suddenly becoming more thoughtful and keeping the level down. > > > > > > Chris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Craig Parmerlee" > > > To: "Angie Brunk" > > > Cc: "Chris Tune" ; ; > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 12:58 PM > > > Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3552] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) > > > > > > > > >> Angie Brunk wrote: > > >> > > >>> Sorry, that's an urban legend. Mythbusters, the ones who tested the > > >>> trombone myth, tested it ...TWICE. It's just not possible to make ice > > >>> bullets that will adequately penetrate human flesh. > > >>> > > >>> Angie > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Friday, January 7, 2005, at 11:52 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Chris Tune wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Of course there is that nasty bullet lodged in his head. Ballistic > > >>>>> analysis can trace it to your gun, unless someone has invented > > >>>>> ballistically untraceable bullets. . .maybe out of high density > > >>>>> titanium or stainless steel. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Two words: ice bullets. Saw that one on Columbo . > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Who are you going to believe? A couple of clowns who are a product of > > >> the faux reality TV fad, and who have never actually demonstrated any > > >> credentials for doing anything other than mugging in front of cameras, > or > > >> a detective who has solved some of the most difficult cases ever, and > has > > >> never failed to get his man? In the battle of the teevee experts, I > > >> think I have to go with Columbo on this one. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 From: Daniel Pliskin Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:18:15 +0000 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3573] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) >I realize this thread has been a good, ongoing chuckle, but I thought I >would jump in to say making friends with, and taking an interest in the >work >of your sound man can be a very good thing. There are also some rooms that make it impossible to sound good, sound support or not. In Palo Alto, thereās a Quonset hut, which had been a pop music joint forever. Then the new owners decided to make it an upscale jazz performance venue. All I could do is shake my head and wonder how much money they were going to throw away before giving up on the room. If only they had read their Helmholtz, before starting on that project. DanP From: "David A. Schwartz" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:00:11 -0500 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3574] Re: Trombone? Huh? - alumni ensembles Matt Varho wrote: >How many of you out there have ever participated in an alumni performing >group? What were the plusses and outstanding memories of those get-togethers? > For me, big plusses but also a minus. Several years ago, for the fortieth anniversary season of the Greater Boston Youth Symphony Orchestras, the conductor, David Commanday (now at Peoria) invited one hundred alumni to form an alumni orchestra to rehearse and to perform Wagner's Rienzi Overture. The plusses? We got to open GBYSO's December concert at Boston's Symphony Hall. It was a fabulous orchestra, a great hall, and music I had not yet played. We got to listen to the current orchestras - and they were much better orchestras than the ones I had played in forty years earlier, when GBYSO was being created by Marvin Rabin and some inspired leaders at Boston University's school of fine arts. We got to reconnect with old friends and make new ones. I got to hear how great the younger generation of trombonists sound. Of course, the talent pool is larger and the pedagogy is better now. An extra plus for me was, prior to the concert, bringing my then fourteen year-old trombonist son on stage. I asked Andrew to play a few notes on my Shires and just listen to the sound of the hall. Priceless. That moment made me reminisce. I recalled the last time I had played at Symphony Hall. It was a Boston Symphony Orchestra youth concert with the Massachusetts All State Orchestra invited to sit in with the pro's. I got to sit between principal trombonist, William Gibson, and second trombonist, William Moyer, and close to my old teacher, Kauko Kahila. In the middle of a passage in the overture to Die Maestersinger Mr. Gibson put his horn down and let me play alone. Abruptly all trombone sound seemed to stop. My sound was tiny. Mr. Gibson pushed a fist forward, urging me to play louder. It made no difference. Mr. Gibson taught me a lesson just by stopping. A year later I'd buy bigger equipment, an 88H! The minuses? We hundred alumni made a fine orchestra and had fun. But another two thousand uninvited alumni were, in effect, excluded. Current orchestra members had to give up a portion of their performance time. We hundred rehearsed and performed, but there wasn't a lot of time to mix and socialize. Now, as a member of GBYSO's board of directors and alumni committee, we are planning for 2008, the fiftieth anniversary season. An alumni orchestra would have to be even more exclusionary! Are there good reunion alternatives? I'm looking for ideas for an appropriate reunion. Maybe a day-long college renunion-style series of talks and seminars by alumni in various fields would create opportunities for mixing. It would take a lot of planning. If listers have ideas, I'm all ears. David David A. Schwartz Belmont, Massachusetts http://www.nyx.net/~dschwart/ From: Eric & Candice Swanson Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:31:18 -0600 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3575] Re: 4th valve for Olds Tuba eliezer aharoni wrote: >Hi listers >Can anybody help: >I am looking for a 4th valve for Olds upright tuba (original part is lost). >Does anybody have an idea where can I obtain such a unit? > > > I did some digging. That horn, if it was made in Fullerton, California, should be the model O-99. It is the same tuba as the current (or recent) Bach model 879. Selmer (Bach) bought the old Olds factory and makes some of the former Olds models (baritones, tubas, and marching horns) as Bach models now. Lucky for you. Your local repair shop should be able to order the piston, and any missing valve caps etc. from Conn-Selmer or Allied Supply. They show that the 3rd and 4th pistons are actually the same even. Maybe some of the repair technicians on this list will verify that I am correct. J.c.? Joe? Eric E.? Eric Swanson From: Eric & Candice Swanson Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:59:43 -0600 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3576] Re: Ear Protection >>> Eric Swanson wrote: >>> It seems that they are starting to turn the volume up pretty loud in >>> movie theaters now too. I think americans are making themselves >>> deaf and it is compounding. I just ordered some new ear plugs that >>> are supposed to cut off 20 dB and still allow a a normal sound. I >>> will post later after I have tried them out. >> I wrote this a few weeks ago. I'm just now getting around to following up. I got these new earplugs, made by Etymotic Research, Inc., model ER20. I bought them from Brasswind, they are in their catalog or on their web site, $13.99. They are supposed to "reduce the overall sound 20 decibels evenly across all frequencies. Speech and music stay clear, just quieter, like turning down the volume." I used them for a few days to see how they felt and to block out our timpani player, who is right behind me. I found that the claims were pretty much accurate. I could hear everything in the orchestra pretty well, but it was a little softer. To me it sounded about 10 to 20 percent softer. When I was playing, I was less satisfied than when I was just listening. There was some of the usual sensations you usually experience when playing with ear plugs in (I had trouble hearing myself), but it was not as bad as with other earplugs. So, all I can say is, earplugs are always a drag to wear, but if you are in a situation where you really need to wear plugs these are better than any others I have used. The manufacturer claims that they provide 20dB of sound reduction, but the government required labeling says they reduce 12 dB. I thought that was kind of odd. If you play in a really loud band, they might not provide enough protection. But to just knock down 12-20 decibels off at a concert or movie they should be pretty good because the music will still sound good. My opinion, Eric Swanson From: Raymond Horton Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:29:39 -0500 To: Cc: "Joe L. Norcross" , , Chris Tune , , Angie Brunk , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3577] Re: Matt's Back (sound engineers) Chip, if he's a trombone player first and a sound guy second, he should be smart enough to dodge the bullet. {JOKE} RBH Chip Tingle wrote: >I realize this thread has been a good, ongoing chuckle, but I thought I >would jump in to say making friends with, and taking an interest in the work >of your sound man can be a very good thing. Amazingly enough, there are >some very good ones out there who approach their gig like any of the rest of >us - trying to make the best music possible on our axes. Granted, there are >many lizards...but aren't there also many lizards on our beloved slushpump? >What mic and why, what eq settings and why, any effects and why, monitor >placement and mix...are all good starting points for a discussion with >someone who has such a huge potential impact on how you sound and feel on a >gig. > >I have the good fortune to work with a trombonist/sound engineer whom is one >of the best on both axes that I know - Jeff Cressman, the bone player for >Santana. His level of awareness in the entire process on a live or >recording project is truly inspirational and something that I reach for each >time I'm in this situation. > >End of sound engineer advocacy public service announcement... > >Cheers, > >