Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 270 Date: Friday, January 7, 2005 12:01 AM From: Multiple recipients of list To: Multiple recipients of list TROMBONE-L Digest 270 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Memorable Melody by "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" 2) Re: sound engineers, how to murder - kinda a lengthy diatr by "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" 3) RE: Memorable Melody by Daryl Burch 4) RE: Memorable Melody by "Chris Tune" 5) SIMON KARASICK PASSES by "Mark & Ulrike Narins" 6) Re: Japan? by "Adrian Drover" 7) RE: Memorable Melody by "Adrian Drover" 8) FW: Re: sound engineers, how to murder - kinda a lengthy diatr by "Eric Edwards" 9) RE: Memorable Melody by "Keith Marr" 10) RE: Memorable Melody by Jeff Albert 11) American Idol/Blues Bros. by Jeff Albert 12) Re: Japan? by Mitsuru SUGISAKI 13) RE: American Idol/Blues Bros. by "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" 14) RE: Memorable Melody by Earl Needham 15) RE: Memorable Melody by Earl Needham 16) Re: Japan? by Earl Needham 17) RE: Memorable Melody by "Barry J. Bocaner" 18) RE: Memorable Melody by 19) RE: Memorable Melody by Craig Parmerlee 20) RE: Memorable Melody by Craig Parmerlee 21) RE: Memorable Melody by "Richard E. Onofrey, Jr., CLU, ChFC, CFP" 22) RE: Memorable Melody by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 23) RE: Memorable Melody by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 24) Memorable Melodies by "Bill Dinwiddie" 25) RE: Memorable Melody by Raymond Horton 26) Re: Memorable Melodies by Jeff Albert 27) RE: Memorable Melody by Raymond Horton 28) RE: Memorable Melody by Jeff Albert 29) RE: Memorable Melody by Tom Izzo 30) RE: Memorable Melody by 31) Re: sound engineers, how to murder - kinda a lengthy diatr by "Daniel Pliskin" 32) Re: sound engineers, how to murder - ??? by DSlide13@aol.com 33) Re: sound engineers, how to murder - ??? by Craig Parmerlee 34) RE: Memorable Melody by Angie Brunk 35) RE: Memorable Melody by "Pat McFarland" 36) More on Melodies, hearing loss and pop music of questionable taste by "Galen McQuarrie" 37) RE: Memorable Melody by Raymond Horton 38) Re: sound engineers, how to murder - ??? by "DAVID C OLIVER" 39) RE: Memorable Melody by c mandernach 40) RE: Memorable Melody by Tom Izzo From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:06:59 +0100 Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3478] RE: Memorable Melody I admit I don't see the evidence for this speculation. But I wonder if it's possible that exactly the same number of standards are being produced now as there ever were. The difference is, there are thousands of times as many nonstandards being produced, and the good stuff is just buried in the noise. Cream is supposed to rise to the top. But buoyancy is not infinite, and the top is a long way now. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Tune [mailto:crtune@adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 05:55 To: craig@acticalc.com; needhame1@plateautel.net Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3474] RE: Memorable Melody It's truly looking that way. I went to some website (I think "about.com" it came up on a Googling on Top 40 songs, or similar). I then scoured the site for any evidence that there was one of the obvious "standards" out there. . .e.g. Sunshine of my Life - Stevie Wonder. There just wasn't anything in the recent decade that stuck out. . .whoa! So far: "exactly NONE". . Chris Tune From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:17:55 +0100 To: Daniel Pliskin , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3479] Re: sound engineers, how to murder - kinda a lengthy diatr The only time I'm sure I hear pop music done live in one take is American Idol. It is striking how imperfect those performances are compared to the recorded version. Pitch and time are all over the place. At first I thought it was the difference between the real pro and the near miss. And some of that may still be true. But I guess I didn't give enough credit to the post performance magic by the sound engineer. On Blues Brothers 2000, one of the few sequels as good as or better than the original, R.E.S.P.E.C.T was supposedly one take. May be urban legend though. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Pliskin [mailto:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com] But let me suggest that it's been a long, long time, since a take was done in one pass, with one microphone, in the middle of the room. DanP From: Daryl Burch Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 00:02:00 -0800 To: List Trombone Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3480] RE: Memorable Melody I know I'm going to regret this.... "Don't Worry, Be Happy" Bobby McFerrin 1995. P.S.: "Spontaneous Inventions" is worth having in your library purely for the "wow!" factor. For _memorable melodies_ you really have to go to jingles for anything mildly recent. (i.e.: JELLO gelatin, Sprite "I Like the Sprite In You", Kit Kat's "Gimme A Break") You know... cheese like dat dere. Although, even the most memorable jingles are 30yrs. & older. -D- www.radionoise.com On Jan 5, 2005, at 4:07 PM, Earl Needham wrote: > At 05:02 PM 1/5/2005, Chris Tune wrote: >> This could be interesting: Let's see 15 years makes it about 1999 >> and forward. > > 1989. > > Earl > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info > > From: Chris Tune Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 00:23:04 -0800 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3481] RE: Memorable Melody You very well could be right about that. What if so many hundreds of thousands of tunes are being produced versus just hundreds or maybe thousands in that old bygone day. . .That would mean that the same phenomenon of a "standard" might take longer to show itself. Still, I think that the phenomenon of a "standard" is different than that. It's not just a particular rank for a tune, but rather like the love people have for a particular celebrity or political figure. It's entirely another realm for an artistic work to reach. We all know the Mona Lisa, but how many of us can recognize each and every Leonardo? Still they are all very, very skilled works of art. To Illustrate: I remember that my old Great Aunt Etta-Mae had a picture of JFK on her wall. She still had it on there in the late sixties after Kennedy was gone. She was 103 years old when she died (not long later). I remember, even as a child thinking that the picture of the President on the wall was odd. Why did she love THIS President? She had lived through so many Roosevelt, Taft, Harding, Hoover, Coolidge, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower. . .She simply had 'adopted' him. Clearly, there was an emotional bond here. . .I don't think she teased through all the political literature and the executive branch data which would allow her to assess the Kennedy Presidency, rather, she found him somehow "resonant". That is the kind of assumption I'm making about these tunes. . some things are just "resonant" with folk. If a melody (like "Twinkle, Twinkle" or "White Christmas") is resonant enough it becomes a special part of our collective consciousness. I think that standards come to us through a very personal resonance with our fundamental understanding and appreciation for music. After all, music in its purest form doesn't have many of the burdens of the written word and particularly of commercial, legal or political speech. Even the visual art forms such as painting, photography, film, animation, etc. are burdened with the fact that humans have such a tremendous faculty for decifering visual data. But acoustic data without specific words, is devoid of much of the "DEFINITIVE" aspects of speech and therefore is capable of reaching the widest and most emotional part of society, largely without taint or preconception. Don't we all feel somehow "touched" and "reached" by really good musical material. I really recall the emotional feeling I had when first hearing the Tchaikovsky 6th "Pathetique" when played by Bernard Haitink and the Concertgebouw. I was brought to outright crying and tears during the profound brass swells. There was something truly touching about the sheer SOUND. This is what happens, at least that is what I believe, when a "Girl from Ipanema" reaches the charts, or we start humming "Suicide is Painless" by J. Mandel, or we tell our girlfriend how much we like the "Linus Theme". . we love the music for life, because.it resonates with us. This is true with so many people on so many levels that the tune gets a life of its own. If there are thousands and thousands of really nice sounding but, less-than-profound tunes coming out. . .well something fundamental has changed. I don't know for sure that this has happened. What I'm saying is that I've got this eerie feeling that this IS HAPPENING and that we will become more aware of it as more developments occur. [right now, this is mostly instinct and ad hoc research and just hypothesis. . .don't take this as definitive sets of statements. . .] Another $0.02 (inflation may require a full nickel). Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:06 PM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3478] RE: Memorable Melody >I admit I don't see the evidence for this speculation. > > But I wonder if it's possible that exactly the same number of standards > are > being produced now as there ever were. > > The difference is, there are thousands of times as many nonstandards being > produced, and the good stuff is just buried in the noise. > > Cream is supposed to rise to the top. But buoyancy is not infinite, and > the > top is a long way now. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Tune [mailto:crtune@adelphia.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 05:55 > To: craig@acticalc.com; needhame1@plateautel.net > Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu > Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3474] RE: Memorable Melody > > > It's truly looking that way. I went to some website (I think "about.com" > it > > came up on a Googling on Top 40 songs, or similar). I then scoured the > site > > for any evidence that there was one of the obvious "standards" out there. > . > .e.g. Sunshine of my Life - Stevie Wonder. There just wasn't anything in > the recent decade that stuck out. . .whoa! > > So far: "exactly NONE". . > > Chris Tune > > From: Mark & Ulrike Narins Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 00:53:26 -0800 To: 'Multiple recipients of list' Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3482] SIMON KARASICK PASSES Dear colleagues, I am sorry to report that the trombonist and conductor Simon Karasick passed away at the age of 94 in November. Simon Karasick was professor of music at Mannes College of Music and University of New York at Stony Brook conducting both brass and wind ensembles at these institutions. He was also a free lance trombonist in the New York City area. He was one of the early students of Emory Remington, in the same class as Gordon Pulis. Mr. Karasick was my high school trombone teacher and influenced me greatly as a musician. He was also a very warm hearted person and was passionately dedicated to his students and the ensembles he conducted. Hopefully I will be able to post a more complete obituary which I am waiting to receive from his son. Thank you very much. Mark Narins From: Adrian Drover Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:54:38 -0000 To: , Trombone-L Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3483] Re: Japan? From: "Mitsuru SUGISAKI" > > Anybody on this list in Japan? > > Yes, right here! Where's that? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: Adrian Drover Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:09:28 -0000 To: Chris Tune , , Cc: , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3484] RE: Memorable Melody From: "Chris Tune" > There really is "some magic" to "standards", that is unexplainable. . > .they just stick to your "soul". . . They have melody that is easy to remember. They have interesting chord structures, usually involving more than one key. They have form. They have words that you can hear. New pop 'music' has none of this. Ever tried compiling a fake book of modern pop? There, I've explained it, and I have a Swiss cheese brain too. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: Eric Edwards Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 06:35:06 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3485] FW: Re: sound engineers, how to murder - kinda a lengthy diatr Kind of funny when you listen to a "perfect" performance on an album, and it seems flat and boring. I think there's something to be said for the slightly imperfect live human recording. Maybe a slight chip here, or a fuzziness there. Is that so bad? I'd rather hear a little of this "noise". Maybe the vocalist wanted a little bend in that last phrase, maybe the sax wanted a squeak on that other solo pass. How about the trumpet section arguing in the background on an old Basie live album? Much better than the musical landfill we have now. God I love that term!! Eric -----Original Message----- From: owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu [mailto:owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:44 PM To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3464] Re: sound engineers, how to murder - kinda a lengthy diatr Y'all, Delbert, thanks for your bravery., What you've sent us is an article about the ART FORM of non-linear editing. Let's see, you hiked out to an area of the country, which you happened to find, all by yourself. You dug up some of this ore and some of that ore, which you smelted and blended to make the particular type of brass, you were after and you formed it into a trombone, right? No? Well then your ability to play trombone is, to a large part, due to just a few people who you forgot to thank. Well, they did get paid for their efforts, in putting that trombone into your hands. How is that different than paying an ARTIST, behind the console, to fix up the drek that came out of your mouth or your instrument? My only objection to the scenario is that the editor's name wasn't listed up there along with that of the lead singer. Is that what I choose to listen to? Heck no! Or, at least I hope it isn't. How could I possibly know, these days. But I've also put a whole bunch of time into being a studio musician and I can affirm that there is a point where any piece of music looses its punch. Another, cleaner take won't do it. The thrill is gone. Do you throw all those takes out? No, you find an editing artist to piece something together. If you listen to pop music, you're listening to that stuff, all of the time. What is the option? Well, the option is that background tracks all be synthesized, so that they are at least "perfect" and so that it doesn't cost so much money to get to that one take where everything else is perfect. But let me suggest that it's been a long, long time, since a take was done in one pass, with one microphone, in the middle of the room. DanP From: Keith Marr Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:17:54 -0000 To: Trombone-L Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3486] RE: Memorable Melody ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Drover > > There, I've explained it, and I have a Swiss cheese brain too. > > A. That's why we're all so fondue! Keith in Bb/F/D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.299 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 03/01/2005 From: Jeff Albert Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 07:48:21 -0600 To: <"Chris Tune"@mxsf30.cluster1.charter.net> Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3487] RE: Memorable Melody I think their are tunes out there that are resonating with large parts of society, just not us. Some of the things done by Elvis or the Beatles that are standards now, probably didn't resonate with middle aged cynical musicians when they came out. jeff Chris Tune wrote: > You very well could be right about that. What if so many hundreds of > thousands of tunes are being produced versus just hundreds or maybe > thousands in that old bygone day. . .That would mean that the same > phenomenon of a "standard" might take longer to show itself. > > Still, I think that the phenomenon of a "standard" is different than > that. It's not just a particular rank for a tune, but rather like the > love people have for a particular celebrity or political figure. > It's entirely another realm for an artistic work to reach. We all > know the Mona Lisa, but how many of us can recognize each and every > Leonardo? Still they are all very, very skilled works of art. > > To Illustrate: > I remember that my old Great Aunt Etta-Mae had a picture of JFK on her > wall. She still had it on there in the late sixties after Kennedy was > gone. She was 103 years old when she died (not long later). I > remember, even as a child thinking that the picture of the President > on the wall was odd. Why did she love THIS President? She had lived > through so many Roosevelt, Taft, Harding, Hoover, Coolidge, FDR, > Truman, Eisenhower. . .She simply had 'adopted' him. > > Clearly, there was an emotional bond here. . .I don't think she teased > through all the political literature and the executive branch data > which would allow her to assess the Kennedy Presidency, rather, she > found him somehow "resonant". That is the kind of assumption I'm > making about these tunes. . some things are just "resonant" with > folk. If a melody (like "Twinkle, Twinkle" or "White Christmas") is > resonant enough it becomes a special part of our collective > consciousness. > > I think that standards come to us through a very personal resonance > with our fundamental understanding and appreciation for music. After > all, music in its purest form doesn't have many of the burdens of the > written word and particularly of commercial, legal or political > speech. Even the visual art forms such as painting, photography, > film, animation, etc. are burdened with the fact that humans have such > a tremendous faculty for decifering visual data. But acoustic data > without specific words, is devoid of much of the "DEFINITIVE" aspects > of speech and therefore is capable of reaching the widest and most > emotional part of society, largely without taint or preconception. > > Don't we all feel somehow "touched" and "reached" by really good > musical material. I really recall the emotional feeling I had when > first hearing the Tchaikovsky 6th "Pathetique" when played by Bernard > Haitink and the Concertgebouw. I was brought to outright crying and > tears during the profound brass swells. There was something truly > touching about the sheer SOUND. > > This is what happens, at least that is what I believe, when a "Girl > from Ipanema" reaches the charts, or we start humming "Suicide is > Painless" by J. Mandel, or we tell our girlfriend how much we like the > "Linus Theme". . we love the music for life, because.it resonates with > us. This is true with so many people on so many levels that the tune > gets a life of its own. > > If there are thousands and thousands of really nice sounding but, > less-than-profound tunes coming out. . .well something fundamental has > changed. I don't know for sure that this has happened. What I'm > saying is that I've got this eerie feeling that this IS HAPPENING and > that we will become more aware of it as more developments occur. > [right now, this is mostly instinct and ad hoc research and just > hypothesis. . .don't take this as definitive sets of statements. . .] > > Another $0.02 (inflation may require a full nickel). > > Chris Tune > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 > BSB DPW - ERMD" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:06 PM > Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3478] RE: Memorable Melody > > >> I admit I don't see the evidence for this speculation. >> >> But I wonder if it's possible that exactly the same number of >> standards are >> being produced now as there ever were. >> >> The difference is, there are thousands of times as many nonstandards >> being >> produced, and the good stuff is just buried in the noise. >> >> Cream is supposed to rise to the top. But buoyancy is not infinite, >> and the >> top is a long way now. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Tune [mailto:crtune@adelphia.net] >> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 05:55 >> To: craig@acticalc.com; needhame1@plateautel.net >> Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu >> Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3474] RE: Memorable Melody >> >> >> It's truly looking that way. I went to some website (I think >> "about.com" it >> >> came up on a Googling on Top 40 songs, or similar). I then scoured >> the site >> >> for any evidence that there was one of the obvious "standards" out >> there. . >> .e.g. Sunshine of my Life - Stevie Wonder. There just wasn't >> anything in >> the recent decade that stuck out. . .whoa! >> >> So far: "exactly NONE". . >> >> Chris Tune >> >> > > > > > -- Jeff Albert P.O. Box 8645 Mandeville, LA 70470 (504) 782-5835 www.jeffalbert.com jeff@jeffalbert.com From: Jeff Albert Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 07:57:44 -0600 To: Cc: Daniel Pliskin , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3488] American Idol/Blues Bros. Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD wrote: >The only time I'm sure I hear pop music done live in one take is American >Idol. > >It is striking how imperfect those performances are compared to the recorded >version. Pitch and time are all over the place. > >At first I thought it was the difference between the real pro and the near >miss. And some of that may still be true. But I guess I didn't give enough >credit to the post performance magic by the sound engineer. > > > Last year I played a gig with the Funk Brothers (which was a total gas, but that's another story). There were 5 or 6 different vocalists on the gig. Two were the background singers that travel with the Funks, and they each did a tune or two out front. The others were Chaka Khan, Joan Osborne, Ronald Isley, and Reuben Stoddard of American Idol fame, and I can tell you unequivocally that there is a difference between the real pro and the talent show winner. Like night and day. Live on stage through two rehearsals and the show, it was very obvious that there were 5 pros and a talent show winner, and there were not digital editors on the gig. >On Blues Brothers 2000, one of the few sequels as good as or better than the >original, > > > I'm sorry but this statement just shows that you either don't get it or have no taste, but I think we've had that conversation before. (I offer the previous statement not as a flame or with any malicious intent, but purely as a fun poke at Tim's thoughts about that movie.) Jeff Albert -- Jeff Albert P.O. Box 8645 Mandeville, LA 70470 (504) 782-5835 www.jeffalbert.com jeff@jeffalbert.com From: Mitsuru SUGISAKI Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:16:42 +0900 To: Trombone-L Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3489] Re: Japan? Adrian, >> > Anybody on this list in Japan? >> >> Yes, right here! > >Where's that? Osaka, it is almost the opposite side of the earth. Too far? :-) I guess you are talking about my e-mail address. It is from my former institute. Mitsuru From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 15:24:47 +0100 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3490] RE: American Idol/Blues Bros. - > > > I'm sorry but this statement just shows that you either don't get it or have no taste, but I think we've had that conversation before. *********** Ha! Let me quote the late Robert P. O'Brien. His picture used to be in those magazine ads holding an Olds trombone, caption read something like "National Catholic Bandmaster of the Year endorses Olds quality instruments." Of course that was a few decades back when he was the director of music at Notre Dame, and I was a student in the marching band. Anyway, the quote: "There's no accounting for the taste of the tasteless!" Feel free to recycle the quote as needed, he wouldn't mind. Couldn't anymore, actually. Sounds like I was right about the talent, though. The difference between a pretty darn good amateur and a pro is an unbridgable gap of miles, yet undetectable to many. Tim *********** (I offer the previous statement not as a flame or with any malicious intent, but purely as a fun poke at Tim's thoughts about that movie.) Jeff Albert -- Jeff Albert P.O. Box 8645 Mandeville, LA 70470 (504) 782-5835 www.jeffalbert.com jeff@jeffalbert.com From: Earl Needham Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 07:54:01 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3491] RE: Memorable Melody At 01:02 AM 1/6/2005, Daryl Burch wrote: >I know I'm going to regret this.... > >"Don't Worry, Be Happy" Bobby McFerrin 1995. I think you're right. It was wildly popular at the time, and a lot of us older people still remember it. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info From: Earl Needham Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 07:58:25 -0700 To: , Chris Tune , , Cc: , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3492] RE: Memorable Melody At 03:09 AM 1/6/2005, Adrian Drover wrote: >Ever tried compiling a fake book of modern pop? Geez, that's a hilarious thought! A second though might be "why would anybody want to?" Although it's really just a second point on the original idea. earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info From: Earl Needham Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:09:08 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3493] Re: Japan? At 02:54 AM 1/6/2005, Adrian Drover wrote: >From: "Mitsuru SUGISAKI" > >> > Anybody on this list in Japan? >>Yes, right here! > > >Where's that? Anybody in Ginowan City or Futenma will tell you that Japan is their suburbs! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info From: "Barry J. Bocaner" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:12:36 -0500 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3494] RE: Memorable Melody At 01:02 AM 1/6/2005, Daryl Burch wrote: >I know I'm going to regret this.... > >"Don't Worry, Be Happy" Bobby McFerrin 1995. Uhh, that song was released in 1988. There's plenty of really excellent pop music being written today, you're just not hearing it because it's drowned out by the rest. There's nothing new going on here. How many tens of thousands of pop songs from the 50s are gone and forgotten so that you can remember the 10 or so really good ones? Same thing with the 60s, 70s, 80s, AND the 90s. For that matter, how many of Mozarts contemporaries are completely forgotten? In 20 years Britney Spears and the rest will be around for nostalgia purposes, but nobody will actually listen to it as music. Barry From: Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:22:53 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3495] RE: Memorable Melody So far, no one has mentioned "If I had $1,000,000" by BNL (?!). Great group with many facinating songs... J.c.S. ---- Chris Tune wrote: > I was applying a pretty stringent standard: > > My swiss-cheese brain had to fully remember the tune. . .I had to "light up" > with the full extent of the tune and be able to really get into singing it. > Of course countless repetitions of tunes like Ipanema and Sunshine of My > Life have allowed me to "turn on the switch" on tunes like that. I had to > play "What Are You Doing for the Rest of Your Life?" the other night and it > felt like I've played it a million times, but in reality it really has only > been several times. There really is "some magic" to "standards", that is > unexplainable. . .they just stick to your "soul". . . > > I paused over several of the Clapton entries I saw--these may wind up as > standards some day. Particularly "Tears in Heaven" because it really is a > very singable and melodious song by Eric Clapton. I know the man was > inspired to write something very good at this time and he did. I have a > very great affinity and love for Eric's music. I sing kinda like him and I > once played the guitar. I also LOVE the blues. . .so Eric really is one of > my favorite musicians. . .(some may wince at this. . but I believe this man > has a true love of music, that allows him to be comfortable in his own > musical "skin", AND he's not really much of a showoff. . another real plus) > > But, unfortunately, as my friend Leroy Lovett will tell you, making a > "STANDARD" is hard. I was applying the test of: > > Which of these tunes will be the "standards" of tommorrow? > > The reference to Leroy Lovett is, perhaps interesting. I found it > interesting when Leroy told me this story" > > Lovett was hired in as an executive with Motown Records after it began to > become pretty big (sometime in the mid-to-late sixties). He continued on as > Motown moved out to Los Angeles, CA. In fact he was a Creative Director > there during much of the time that Stevie Wonder started lighting up. He > recalls being in a meeting with Berry Gordy where Gordy asked if the various > executives of Motown could not somehow work it out that a particular tune > they were releasing would become a "standard". > > Lovett, was at first taken aback, but eventually commented. . ."you can't > just MAKE something a standard. . " He went on: > > "This is something that has to . . .'HAPPEN'. . .I mean musicians and people > have to just recognize the music. . ." > > Maybe that's what we're talking about here. . . . > > are there any NEW "STANDARDS"? > > If not, why not? > > Maybe this new environment doesn't lend itself to the music "rising" to that > level. I dunno. . .interesting thought tho' . . . > > Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Albert" > To: > Cc: "Chris Tune" ; ; > ; > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 8:46 PM > Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3473] RE: Memorable Melody > > > > I'm not claiming to like any of this stuff, but these have something > > similar to a melody. > > > > 1989: > > Wind Beneath My Wings - Bette Midler > > Miss you like Crazy - Natalie Cole > > Angel of Harlem - U2 > > > > 1990: > > Here and Now - Luther Vandross > > > > 1991: > > Everything I do - Bryan Adams > > > > 1992: > > Tears in heaven - Eric Clapton > > Under The Bridge - Red Hot Chili Peppers > > > > 1993: > > well 93 is a little tough > > > > 1994: > > All I Wanna Do - Cheryl Crow > > Can you Fell the Love Tonight - Elton John > > > > skip a few years for brevity > > > > 1999: > > Smooth - Sanatana > > Believe - Cher > > > > 2000: > > Higher - Creed > > > > Does "Who Let The Dogs Out" count? > > > > I guess my point is that while I agree that most pop music is disposable, > > the art of songwriting is not completely dead,in spite of what we grumpy > > old farts think. > > > > One of the Grammy record of the year nominees this year (Heaven by Los > > Lonely Boys) is actually very good. The Green Day tune is ok, and the > > other three have no melodic content past the bassline, BUT there is one > > good song in the bunch. > > > > -- > > Jeff Albert > > P.O. Box 8645 > > Mandeville, LA 70470 > > (504) 782-5835 > > www.jeffalbert.com > > jeff@jeffalbert.com > > > > > From: Craig Parmerlee Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:54:40 -0500 Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3496] RE: Memorable Melody I applaud Jeff's list. There are some songs of quality there. Other than "Can You Feel The Love" and "Wind Beneath my Wings", I don't think they will become standards, but I may be wrong about that. I personally like a few of the songs from that list, and am inspired to write some charts for them. What makes a standard? It seems to me very few songs "grow into it". Most of them show their destiny pretty clearly within a couple of years. I mean, was there ever any doubt "Bridge over troubled water" or "Yesterday" would become standards? The main reason there aren't many standards created today is because the quality of the art is way down. Blame it on other forms (rap?) if you like. Is there such a thing as a "Rap standard?" Are there raps that people will still be rapping 50 years from now? I mean that as a serious question. I don't know much about that scene. IMHO, the main issue is that the industry has turned art into manufacturing. ClearChannel doesn't really care whether a song becomes a standard - obviously. What they care about is having new material from sources that are good enough to keep the radio sets turned on, but not so good that the producers gain the upper hand on ClearChannel. They want music -- let's not call it "music", let's call it what it is: "product" -- they want product to fill their 1000+ channels of bandwidth, fitting a particular formula and never being offensive or even mildly challenging. Have you heard the rhetorical question, "What is mortar? Is it the stuff that holds bricks together or is it the stuff that holds bricks apart?" Fact is, no pop group can get big airplay today without ClearChannel. And for ClearChannel, the ads are the bricks. The music is the mortar that holds those bricks apart. If ClearChannel could find a way to run nothing but continuous ads, they would do it. Music is simply an unpleasant necessity to them. I don't believe there will ever again be any standards that emerge from that environment. If there are any standards in the future, they are likely to come from huge movies, which is where most of the "super standards" came from anyway in the past. But this isn't happening as much as in the past for two reasons. One, movies are generally a lot crappier than they have ever been, for reasons very similar to the ClearChannel thing. And two, the life cycle is compressed radically. The Sound of Music played in theaters continuously for over a decade. Today, the hottest movies stay in theaters for 4 weeks. Real blockbusters might stay for 6 weeks. It isn't just about Americans' short attention span. It is mainly driven by a desire to move the product (there's that word again) into secondary marketing channels (pay per view, overseas theaters, and DVD) while the product is still hot. That's simply a different business model than was in play in the days of Gone With The Wind. It is a business model designed to manufacture product, not to produce art. It is more difficult for great music to emerge from this business model. There will always be a few Star Wars, Titanic, or Lion Kings that have exceptional sound tracks, but not nearly as many as the past. Chris Tune wrote: > Lovett, was at first taken aback, but eventually commented. . ."you > can't just MAKE something a standard. . " He went on: > > "This is something that has to . . .'HAPPEN'. . .I mean musicians and > people have to just recognize the music. . ." > > Maybe that's what we're talking about here. . . . > > are there any NEW "STANDARDS"? > > If not, why not? > > Maybe this new environment doesn't lend itself to the music "rising" > to that level. I dunno. . .interesting thought tho' . . . From: Craig Parmerlee Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:27:58 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3497] RE: Memorable Melody Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD wrote: >But I wonder if it's possible that exactly the same number of standards are >being produced now as there ever were. > > I don't believe so. Standards do require a certain amount of repetitions to etch themselves into our synapses. But it is the inherent quality of the song that earns it the repetitions. Great songs tend to emerge fairly quickly. Are there really any cases where a common pop song from one era became a standard in a much later era? In today's business climate, I just don't see how a song would get enough repetitions to become a standard if it doesn't start really strong. From: "Richard E. Onofrey, Jr., CLU, ChFC, CFP" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:47:33 -0500 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3498] RE: Memorable Melody Hey, I resemble that remark! I'd hardly consider myself one of the "older people" at 40, but I remember that tune very well. Rick (now I can't get that tune out of my head) Onofrey -----Original Message----- At 01:02 AM 1/6/2005, Daryl Burch wrote: >I know I'm going to regret this.... > >"Don't Worry, Be Happy" Bobby McFerrin 1995. I think you're right. It was wildly popular at the time, and a lot of us older people still remember it. Earl From: Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:46:23 EST To: , Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3499] RE: Memorable Melody If in the far future there is anyone left with hearing, and if anyone discovers him, Andrew Lloyd Weber material will probably be somewhere up in the classics almost like.... well maybe not quite like Bach. beldon wade ............................................................ : An attachment to this post has been stripped by: : : plaintext.pl : : Original idea by Phillip Porch (ppp@theporch.com) : : Written by Stephen Modena, AB4EL (shimshon@theporch.com) : : Modifications by Mearl Danner, (jmdanner@samford.edu) : : All rights reserved. : ............................................................ From: Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:51:07 EST To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3500] RE: Memorable Melody Malthus.... The bad drives out the good. beldon wade ............................................................ : An attachment to this post has been stripped by: : : plaintext.pl : : Original idea by Phillip Porch (ppp@theporch.com) : : Written by Stephen Modena, AB4EL (shimshon@theporch.com) : : Modifications by Mearl Danner, (jmdanner@samford.edu) : : All rights reserved. : ............................................................ From: Bill Dinwiddie Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:53:22 -0600 To: List Trombone Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3501] Memorable Melodies Tim Richardson said: "Ha! Let me quote the late Robert P. O'Brien. His picture used to be in those magazine ads holding an Olds trombone, caption read something like "National Catholic Bandmaster of the Year endorses Olds quality instruments." Of course that was a few decades back when he was the director of music at Notre Dame, and I was a student in the marching band. Anyway, the quote: "There's no accounting for the taste of the tasteless!" Tim, This brings to mind the wonderful quotation which, I believe, is attributed to H.L. Mencken (sp?), who said, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." There is real truth in that thought. I think, unfortunately, that statement holds as well today as it did in the 1930s, when he wrote it. But, how is it then, that many people of the 20s, 30s and 40s were wild about the music of Cole Porter, Rogers and Hart or Hammerstein, the Gershwins, and legions of others, all of whom wrote wonderful, clever, creative, and memorable music? To me, there is really no comparison, on any level, of today's "hits" and the great music of these composers of popular music. Thus spake the pre-Boomer ancient trombonist (who works mostly in a rock band and still enjoys music). Bill Dinwiddie billdin@comcast.net From: Raymond Horton Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:57:21 -0500 To: Cc: Chris Tune , , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3502] RE: Memorable Melody I don't know who wrote "Wind Beneath My Wings," but Gary Morris (an excellent musician whom the LO toured with a couple of times, BTW) had a country hit with it in 1984. I do like "All I Wanna Do" and "Higher" from your list - hard to say if they are memorable or classic. (I kept trying to get my church rock band to do "Higher" so I could sing it, but I couldn't get either of the lead guitarists to learn it. The tuning was too much for them, I guess) Raymond Horton Louisville Orchestra Jeff Albert wrote: > I'm not claiming to like any of this stuff, but these have something > similar to a melody. > > 1989: > Wind Beneath My Wings - Bette Midler > Miss you like Crazy - Natalie Cole > Angel of Harlem - U2 > > 1990: > Here and Now - Luther Vandross > > 1991: > Everything I do - Bryan Adams > > 1992: > Tears in heaven - Eric Clapton > Under The Bridge - Red Hot Chili Peppers > > 1993: > well 93 is a little tough > > 1994: > All I Wanna Do - Cheryl Crow > Can you Fell the Love Tonight - Elton John > > skip a few years for brevity > > 1999: > Smooth - Sanatana > Believe - Cher > > 2000: > Higher - Creed > > Does "Who Let The Dogs Out" count? > > I guess my point is that while I agree that most pop music is > disposable, the art of songwriting is not completely dead,in spite of > what we grumpy old farts think. > > One of the Grammy record of the year nominees this year (Heaven by Los > Lonely Boys) is actually very good. The Green Day tune is ok, and the > other three have no melodic content past the bassline, BUT there is > one good song in the bunch. > From: Jeff Albert Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:15:14 -0600 To: Cc: List Trombone Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3503] Re: Memorable Melodies Bill Dinwiddie wrote: > > But, how is it then, that many people of the 20s, 30s and 40s were > wild about the music of Cole Porter, > Rogers and Hart or Hammerstein, the Gershwins, and legions of others, > all of whom wrote wonderful, > clever, creative, and memorable music? To me, there is really no > comparison, on any level, of today's "hits" > and the great music of these composers of popular music. But the people of the 20's 30's and 40's were also wild about loads and loads of stupid schlock that has since been forgotten. There were many more pop music composers in those times, but we generally only remember the ones you listed. Just like today. Look at the turn of the century pop music scene in 50 years, and most of it will be gone and some will remain, just like the scene from 50 or 80 years ago. -- Jeff Albert P.O. Box 8645 Mandeville, LA 70470 (504) 782-5835 www.jeffalbert.com jeff@jeffalbert.com From: Raymond Horton Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:14:35 -0500 To: Cc: <"Chris Tune"@mxsf30.cluster1.charter.net>, Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3504] RE: Memorable Melody Speaking of the Beatles, which I remember more first hand than Elvis, they didn't register right away with middle aged musicians or populace, but they did eventually earn respect and more. More so than any youth-oriented group right now. Because they were better than any out there now (and they didn't "comp their vocals," either). RBH Jeff Albert wrote: > I think their are tunes out there that are resonating with large parts > of society, just not us. Some of the things done by Elvis or the > Beatles that are standards now, probably didn't resonate with middle > aged cynical musicians when they came out. > > jeff > > Chris Tune wrote: > >> You very well could be right about that. What if so many hundreds of >> thousands of tunes are being produced versus just hundreds or maybe >> thousands in that old bygone day. . .That would mean that the same >> phenomenon of a "standard" might take longer to show itself. >> >> Still, I think that the phenomenon of a "standard" is different than >> that. It's not just a particular rank for a tune, but rather like the >> love people have for a particular celebrity or political figure. >> It's entirely another realm for an artistic work to reach. We all >> know the Mona Lisa, but how many of us can recognize each and every >> Leonardo? Still they are all very, very skilled works of art. >> >> To Illustrate: >> I remember that my old Great Aunt Etta-Mae had a picture of JFK on >> her wall. She still had it on there in the late sixties after Kennedy >> was gone. She was 103 years old when she died (not long later). I >> remember, even as a child thinking that the picture of the President >> on the wall was odd. Why did she love THIS President? She had lived >> through so many Roosevelt, Taft, Harding, Hoover, Coolidge, FDR, >> Truman, Eisenhower. . .She simply had 'adopted' him. >> >> Clearly, there was an emotional bond here. . .I don't think she >> teased through all the political literature and the executive branch >> data which would allow her to assess the Kennedy Presidency, rather, >> she found him somehow "resonant". That is the kind of assumption >> I'm making about these tunes. . some things are just "resonant" with >> folk. If a melody (like "Twinkle, Twinkle" or "White Christmas") is >> resonant enough it becomes a special part of our collective >> consciousness. >> >> I think that standards come to us through a very personal resonance >> with our fundamental understanding and appreciation for music. After >> all, music in its purest form doesn't have many of the burdens of the >> written word and particularly of commercial, legal or political >> speech. Even the visual art forms such as painting, photography, >> film, animation, etc. are burdened with the fact that humans have >> such a tremendous faculty for decifering visual data. But acoustic >> data without specific words, is devoid of much of the "DEFINITIVE" >> aspects of speech and therefore is capable of reaching the widest and >> most emotional part of society, largely without taint or preconception. >> >> Don't we all feel somehow "touched" and "reached" by really good >> musical material. I really recall the emotional feeling I had when >> first hearing the Tchaikovsky 6th "Pathetique" when played by Bernard >> Haitink and the Concertgebouw. I was brought to outright crying and >> tears during the profound brass swells. There was something truly >> touching about the sheer SOUND. >> >> This is what happens, at least that is what I believe, when a "Girl >> from Ipanema" reaches the charts, or we start humming "Suicide is >> Painless" by J. Mandel, or we tell our girlfriend how much we like >> the "Linus Theme". . we love the music for life, because.it resonates >> with us. This is true with so many people on so many levels that the >> tune gets a life of its own. >> >> If there are thousands and thousands of really nice sounding but, >> less-than-profound tunes coming out. . .well something fundamental >> has changed. I don't know for sure that this has happened. What I'm >> saying is that I've got this eerie feeling that this IS HAPPENING and >> that we will become more aware of it as more developments occur. >> [right now, this is mostly instinct and ad hoc research and just >> hypothesis. . .don't take this as definitive sets of statements. . .] >> >> Another $0.02 (inflation may require a full nickel). >> >> Chris Tune >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 >> BSB DPW - ERMD" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:06 PM >> Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3478] RE: Memorable Melody >> >> >>> I admit I don't see the evidence for this speculation. >>> >>> But I wonder if it's possible that exactly the same number of >>> standards are >>> being produced now as there ever were. >>> >>> The difference is, there are thousands of times as many nonstandards >>> being >>> produced, and the good stuff is just buried in the noise. >>> >>> Cream is supposed to rise to the top. But buoyancy is not infinite, >>> and the >>> top is a long way now. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Chris Tune [mailto:crtune@adelphia.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 05:55 >>> To: craig@acticalc.com; needhame1@plateautel.net >>> Cc: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu >>> Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3474] RE: Memorable Melody >>> >>> >>> It's truly looking that way. I went to some website (I think >>> "about.com" it >>> >>> came up on a Googling on Top 40 songs, or similar). I then scoured >>> the site >>> >>> for any evidence that there was one of the obvious "standards" out >>> there. . >>> .e.g. Sunshine of my Life - Stevie Wonder. There just wasn't >>> anything in >>> the recent decade that stuck out. . .whoa! >>> >>> So far: "exactly NONE". . >>> >>> Chris Tune >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > From: Jeff Albert Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:30:03 -0600 To: Raymond Horton Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3505] RE: Memorable Melody Raymond Horton wrote: > Speaking of the Beatles, which I remember more first hand than Elvis, > they didn't register right away with middle aged musicians or > populace, but they did eventually earn respect and more. More so than > any youth-oriented group right now. Because they were better than any > out there now (and they didn't "comp their vocals," either). > > RBH Maybe there is a group or songwriter out there now that is still in the "didn't register right away with middle aged musicians or populace" space. We wouldn't know about them because they aren't registering. As for comping vocals, they could sing, but you have to realize that they pushed the available recording technology to it's limits, and if they had the technology of today available to them then, they would have used it to it's fullest. Jeff -- Jeff Albert P.O. Box 8645 Mandeville, LA 70470 (504) 782-5835 www.jeffalbert.com jeff@jeffalbert.com From: Tom Izzo Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:55:37 -0800 (PST) To: , Cc: Chris Tune , , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3506] RE: Memorable Melody --- Raymond Horton wrote: > I don't know who wrote "Wind Beneath My Wings," but > Gary Morris (an > excellent musician whom the LO toured with a couple > of times, BTW) had a > country hit with it in 1984. Very true! I think many here are confusing memorable melodies with RECORDINGS he/she remembers hearing. Due to the nature of "WBMW" being recorded by several people & lasting, it's working its way into a "standards" type list. Besides, I don't think Ms Middler wrote it. Recording a song is a lot different than writing a "memorable" melody. Oh oh, didn't mean to start a new thread on pop recordings.................... :-) But I do like the GM version. Tom ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Timpani & Percussion. http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 858-7832 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From: Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 15:30:35 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3507] RE: Memorable Melody <*GULP!!!*> J.c.S. ---- BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com wrote: > If in the far future there is anyone left with hearing, and if anyone > discovers him, Andrew Lloyd Weber material will probably be somewhere up in the > classics almost like.... well maybe not quite like Bach. > > > beldon wade > > : An attachment to this post has been stripped by: : > : plaintext.pl : > : Original idea by Phillip Porch (ppp@theporch.com) : > : Written by Stephen Modena, AB4EL (shimshon@theporch.com) : > : Modifications by Mearl Danner, (jmdanner@samford.edu) : > : All rights reserved. : > ............................................................ From: Daniel Pliskin Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:41:34 +0000 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3508] Re: sound engineers, how to murder - kinda a lengthy diatr Iâm not sure that I ever get out of Devilâs advocacy mode, but Iâm in it now. All we seem to be doing is showing our age, not superior taste in music. For one thing, those jazz standards donât have a contempory beat. Theyâre not hip-hop. Theyâre not rap. Theyâre not heavy metal. Theyâre not grunge. Theyâre not country. Theyâre scarcely going to qualify as music, to todayâs pop music listeners. In general, we (on this list) donât listen to pop. And we donât have a clue as to whatâs great and whatâs not, in todayâs contemporary music. Letâs just say that anyone who canât think of a great tune thatâs less than 15 years old, is more than 40 years old, themselves. I probably know all the lyrics to all the Elvis tunes. Was that great music? Heck no! But it had a good beat that you could dance to. So letâs try not to scare all the young players off of our list. DanP From: Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 18:33:03 -0500 To: , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3509] Re: sound engineers, how to murder - ??? no one here listens to stevie wonder, or elton john, or babyface. art of songwriting appears to be on life support, but every generation says that. the new "hook" is to create a beat and a bass line. everything that goes on top of that is usually throw away. but, there are still some people writing songs. you illustrate the point that no one here is really listening to the music to know. we're allowing ourselves to be detered by the great plethora of poor musical craftsmanship. not to mention....who are we to say what's good or bad anyway. people like what they like. food doesn't taste better when you know how to prepare it. musicians seem to condescend to their audiences. if everyone had 'great' taste, mcdonald's wouldn't be the juggernaut that it is. the trick for great musicians is to make their art as easily accessible as mcdonald's make its menu. that's not pandering, it's respecting your audience. dg From: Craig Parmerlee Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:30:45 -0500 Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3510] Re: sound engineers, how to murder - ??? DSlide13@aol.com wrote: >not to mention....who are we to say what's good or bad anyway. > I don't think anybody said that. Well, OK there's loads of really worthless music. That's not new. What *IS* new is that there are no, or almost no, songs written since 1990 that are on a path to become lasting standards. That isn't a value judgment, just an educated guess. These musical manufacturers are not trying to create lasting products. They are trying to create disposable products. And the music factories (previously called "labels") want disposable performers just as much as they want disposable musical products. It isn't a question of good or bad. I like a lot of the tunes that play on the radio, even though I understand the best of them have a half life measured in weeks. From: Angie Brunk Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 19:03:28 -0600 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3511] RE: Memorable Melody I love Bobby McFerrin's music, but I can't stand "Don't Worry, Be Happy." If you want to really here McFerrin listen to "Baby" or "The 23rd Psalm." He's a tremendous vocal talent. I think it is a real pity that he will probably be most remembered for "Don't Worry, Be Happy". Angie On Thursday, January 6, 2005, at 08:54 AM, Earl Needham wrote: > At 01:02 AM 1/6/2005, Daryl Burch wrote: >> I know I'm going to regret this.... >> >> "Don't Worry, Be Happy" Bobby McFerrin 1995. > > I think you're right. It was wildly popular at the time, and a > lot of us older people still remember it. > > Earl > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk > http://kd5xb-2.no-ip.info > From: Pat McFarland Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 19:04:31 -0600 To: Chris Tune , , Cc: , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3512] RE: Memorable Melody What about the Chicago "arrangements" and original tunes from thier "Night & Day" & Christmas CD's? Pat McFarland From: Galen McQuarrie Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:05:50 -0800 To: Trombone-L List Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3513] More on Melodies, hearing loss and pop music of questionable taste Blank I have enjoyed reading the discussions here about the current popular music scene with some interest. I would like to bring up for more discussion, an aspect of this that hasn't been previously mentioned. Beginning in the late 50 and 60 and gradually becoming worse in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. is a trend with the people who promote, fund and generally control the music scene to only promote that "music" that will sell BIG, hit platinum etc., or music that the promoters think will sell to the largest audience. This approach virtually guarantees that the lowest common denominator will be served. Music is produced only for its fiduciary return, not because of any innate quality of the product. There may very well be excellent music being made out in the trenches, but until the advent of the internet and the plethora of information available and the ability to market successfully to niches etc., has this music been generally available, at least to me. As a corollary to this, I have found that if a young person is exposed to, plays and has the chance to interact with others of like taste, they like and appreciate good music as much as those of us who are older. I, personally am virtually clueless about any pop music beyond 1960. I guess that that dates me pretty badly. Best, Galen McQuarrie From: Raymond Horton Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:33:23 -0500 To: Cc: , Chris Tune , , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3514] RE: Memorable Melody Good points, Tom. However, my point, for our discussion, was that the tune predates our 1989 limit. I know neither Midler nor Morris wrote it - Morris made quite a deal in his concerts with us of having the first hit of the song, and he told me he did not write it (he was a bit embarrassed because a reviewer of one of his concerts with us said he did).. I just don't know who did write it. I do know it was 1984 when he recorded it. RBH Tom Izzo wrote: >--- Raymond Horton wrote: > > > >>I don't know who wrote "Wind Beneath My Wings," but >>Gary Morris (an >>excellent musician whom the LO toured with a couple >>of times, BTW) had a >>country hit with it in 1984. >> >> > >Very true! > >I think many here are confusing memorable melodies >with RECORDINGS he/she remembers hearing. >Due to the nature of "WBMW" being recorded by several >people & lasting, it's working its way into a >"standards" type list. Besides, I don't think Ms >Middler wrote it. Recording a song is a lot different >than writing a "memorable" melody. > >Oh oh, didn't mean to start a new thread on pop >recordings.................... :-) > >But I do like the GM version. > >Tom > > >===== >Tom Izzo >Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; >Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; >Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; >Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Timpani & Percussion. >http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ >(630) 858-7832 > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > From: DAVID C OLIVER Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 21:21:41 -0700 To: , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3515] Re: sound engineers, how to murder - ??? Speaking of Elton John, I remember watching the broadcast of him doing that Central Park concert not too long after John Lennon (speaking of the Beatles) was killed. Even though he kept coming out in different goofy looking outfits (the duck one sticks in my mind) you couldn't help being amazed by his ability to write and perform a song - just the way *that* song should have been performed. An un-enhanced voice and piano. I think this is the secret to "hits" if there is one. I have a multi-CD set of the classic Beach Boys, and (don't laugh) you can get into the backing track (no vocals) of "I Get Around." The basic writing of Brian Wilson was that good. He took in the influence of the Four Freshman and other influences and produced each song the best way for *that* song. I remember Paul McCartney talking about his "Come and Get It," which was written for Badfinger, another group on the Apple label. He said something like "boys, this is the way you want to do it". If you hear McCartney's demo from The Beatles Anthology and compare it to the Badfinger version there is *very* little difference, down to the bass line, piano, etc., and yes, it was also a hit. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA P.S. Trombone content: At times you can hear a trombone in a Beatles or Beach Boys song. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3509] Re: sound engineers, how to murder - ??? > no one here listens to stevie wonder, or elton john, or babyface. art of > songwriting appears to be on life support, but every generation says that. > the new "hook" is to create a beat and a bass line. everything that goes > on top of that is usually throw away. but, there are still some people > writing songs. you illustrate the point that no one here is really > listening to the music to know. we're allowing ourselves to be detered by > the great plethora of poor musical craftsmanship. > > not to mention....who are we to say what's good or bad anyway. people > like what they like. food doesn't taste better when you know how to > prepare it. musicians seem to condescend to their audiences. if everyone > had 'great' taste, mcdonald's wouldn't be the juggernaut that it is. the > trick for great musicians is to make their art as easily accessible as > mcdonald's make its menu. that's not pandering, it's respecting your > audience. > > dg > > From: c mandernach Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:33:24 -0600 To: , , Cc: Chris Tune , , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3516] RE: Memorable Melody 1/6/05 I don't know how interested anyone is, but "Wind Beneath My Wings" was written by Larry Henley and Jeff Silbar, a very successful Nashville song-writing team, in 1980. It is a song that has had a rather unique, nearly universal appeal, and has been recorded by artist across a wide spectrum of musical styles. Somewhat of a prerequisite to becoming a "standard" I suppose. I haven't read quite all of the discussion going on relative to songs, standards, etc., so maybe this comment has already been made, but one reason many pretty good tunes (and there are some, though granted, maybe not many) will never become "standards"as such, is because they have been written BY the RECORDING ARTIST, whose PERFORMANCE of it is rather an integral part of that tune, and the tune, itself, is not really sufficiently adaptable, attractive, or universal enough in its appeal for other performers to pick it up. In other words, the tune can't really be well seperated from the creator, and the tune itself (without the creator's performance) does not have much of a life of its own. Obviously, there are exceptions, but I think it is predominantly the case. And, in my view anyway, a really good piece of music should be able to stand on its own. Many of the few exceptions these days (last 15 years and before) are in the country field, where Wind Beneath My Wings started out, and where song writers still work as writers, and not as performers - similar to the great song writers of the first (roughly) half of the last century. Some other exceptions, and someone has already mentioned Lloyd Webber, come from shows, and (probably) fewer these days, like The Sandpiper and The Way We Were (probably both outside the 15 year limit as well, but further make the point). Also, Stevie Wonder was mentioned in someone's earlier message, and a couple of his tunes, like a few of those of Carole King, Neil Diamond, Neil Sedaka, and Lennon/McCartney (to name a few) have been sufficiently "good", adaptable, and have enough universal appeal that they have worked for other performers and have become at least somewhat "standard". Performers who do not write their own material will look for "good" songs, but in the broad area of pop/rock music these days, they are not that many (performers looking). Country music, though many country performers also write their own material, remains a notable exception. Gary Morris, by the way, was a wonderful classically trained singer, who could "cross over" and was a performer of integrity. Chuck Mandernach on 1/6/05 1:55 PM, Tom Izzo at contrabasstrombone@yahoo.com wrote: > > --- Raymond Horton wrote: > >> I don't know who wrote "Wind Beneath My Wings," but >> Gary Morris (an >> excellent musician whom the LO toured with a couple >> of times, BTW) had a >> country hit with it in 1984. > > Very true! > > I think many here are confusing memorable melodies > with RECORDINGS he/she remembers hearing. > Due to the nature of "WBMW" being recorded by several > people & lasting, it's working its way into a > "standards" type list. Besides, I don't think Ms > Middler wrote it. Recording a song is a lot different > than writing a "memorable" melody. > > Oh oh, didn't mean to start a new thread on pop > recordings.................... :-) > > But I do like the GM version. > > Tom > > > ===== > Tom Izzo > Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; > Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; > Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; > Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, Electric > Bass, Timpani & Percussion. > http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ > (630) 858-7832 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > From: Tom Izzo Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 21:46:44 -0800 (PST) To: , Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3517] RE: Memorable Melody Welcome back, Angie! --- Angie Brunk wrote: > I love Bobby McFerrin's music, but I can't stand > "Don't Worry, Be > Happy." If you want to really here McFerrin listen > to "Baby" or "The > 23rd Psalm." He's a tremendous vocal talent. I > think it is a real pity > that he will probably be most remembered for "Don't > Worry, Be Happy". > Oh, I don't know...there are many other good things, such as the Bach Air on a G String duet he did with Yo-Yo Ma, plus he's also a conductor, he's truly a multi talent. Tom ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Timpani & Percussion. http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 858-7832 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250