Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 268 Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2005 12:15 AM From: Multiple recipients of list To: Multiple recipients of list TROMBONE-L Digest 268 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Good to be back! by "DAVID C OLIVER" 2) Re: Bach bass on eBay by "Chris Tune" 3) FW: STLtoday article: Symphony musicians reject contract by "Steve Gamble" 4) Re: Good to be back! by thetubameister@att.net 5) Pending Trombone Specific Legislation by "Charles De Paolo" 6) Re: Good to be back! by Earl Needham 7) Fibre mute versus wood mute by Craig Parmerlee 8) Re: Ear Protection, was Re: Wannabe sound engineers, how to murder by Larry White 9) Re: Haydn - was: Schubert by Raymond Horton From: DAVID C OLIVER Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:21:05 -0700 To: Trombone List Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3436] Good to be back! I changed e-mail addresses recently, and it felt weird to be off the list for about two weeks after being on it essentially continuously for 8 years. No problem though as Mearl got back in town and all is well. I do like the DSL connection. I got forwards from a local lister on the thread about Lloyd Ulyate and his "multi-Lloyd" CD. I bought that CD a few years ago, thought I can't recall exactly how I got it. Weird timing though, as I finally was cleaning out my desk a bit and came across a card from Lloyd after I'd met him the second time in Denver with Ralph's big band. He also gave me his e-mail address on the card and I remember writing him a couple of times after that. Nice fellow. I've been listening to the Ralph Carmichael big band CD's a lot lately and Lloyd does that big band lead trombone thing perfectly. David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA Trombone, Denver Concert Band Bass Trombone, Swing Inc. From: Chris Tune Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:14:22 -0800 To: , , Trombone-L Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3437] Re: Bach bass on eBay Yes, Carl. Really nicely done ad on Ebay. Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Izzo" To: ; "Trombone-L" Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:25 PM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3435] Re: Bach bass on eBay > Carl, > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your articulate ad on E-bay. > So so so many people advertise with ignorance of what > they are selling, ignorance of what the metals are, > e.g. calling brass "gold", mislabelling parts, calling > everything "vintage" and/or "rare", & normally very > poor grammar, punctuations, & spelling. Yours was a > joy to read. > > Tom > (a multi Bach owner). > > --- Carl Musholt wrote: > >> Hello list! I'm selling a Bach bass trombone on >> ebay. Item # is >> 3772615269. You may be able to get right to it by >> clicking on this >> link: >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64376&item=3772615269&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW >> but I'm not sure it works that way. >> >> Happy new year to all! >> >> Carl Musholt >> >> > > > ===== > Tom Izzo > Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; > Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; > Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; > Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Euphonium, Bass Trumpet, > Electric Bass, Timpani & Percussion. > http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ > (630) 858-7832 > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com > > From: Steve Gamble Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 06:07:03 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3438] FW: STLtoday article: Symphony musicians reject contract Hi All, For your reading pleasure... Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org Symphony musicians reject contract By Sarah Bryan Miller Post-Dispatch Classical Music Critic Below is the link to the story. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/stor y/CC78ED16CACB901F86256F7E001BE825?OpenDocument&Headline=Symphony+mu sicians+reject+contract Here is the story. UPDATE: Musicians with the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra today overwhelmingly rejected what management had called its "best and final offer." The vote was 85 to 3. Going into the vote, musicians had said they would go on strike immediately if they rejected the contract, but there was no word about whether a strike had been called. Symphony musicians said they would begin picketing on Wednesday and said that the orchestra's management had locked them out. But Jeff Trammel, a spokesman for the orchestra, said "we have not locked them out," calling the matter merely a work stoppage in the absence of a contract. After the vote, the musicians' union said it would protest unfair labor practices on the part of the symphony's management and has filed charges with the National Labor Relations Board. The Associated Press contributed information for this story. Check back with STLtoday.com for more on this breaking story. -------------- Our earlier story: Contract negotiations between the management and musicians of the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra ended in failure on Sunday evening after a seven-hour meeting. The players will vote on management's "best and final offer" at 1 p.m. today and if they turn it down, they will be on strike effective immediately. There are a number of issues under discussion, including benefits and work rules, but the biggest one is economic: Management has asked the musicians to take a pay cut, and they want a raise. The players made significant sacrifices three years ago, when they renegotiated their contract after the Symphony's near-death experience in summer 2000. With the help of two $1 million gifts from philanthropists Emily Rauh Pulitzer and Mary Strauss, salaries were held at $73,900 for 42 weeks of work. Since then, the $40 million Taylor Family challenge grant has been met to bring the endowment to healthier levels. But orchestra president Randy Adams has refused to commit to higher pay scales than the endowment will support; he wants to raise an additional $20 million for the endowment. In November, management offered the players $61,000 a year, a significant pay cut. Adams says he now has additional commitments of more than $16 million and that the final offer was more than $70,000, but less than the current rate. He refused to divulge the exact amount. "I want to compliment the musicians," he said in a telephone interview on Sunday night. "They have been honorable and forthright and very clear on what they want. I do understand their desire to improve their financial position, but there is a limit on what the Symphony can offer. There's a basic and honest disagreement as to what the economic position can be and should be." The chairman of the orchestra's negotiating committee, Jan Gippo, said, "I don't want to comment on it; we have a meeting with the orchestra (today) at the union hall. We will discuss the proposal; we will ask for a vote; and we will proceed, contingent on that vote. I want to hear what my musicians have to say. It's a collective, and I'm not ready to pre-empt any of the discussions my musicians might want to have. I want to be able to present it in a total package for my musicians." Adams pinned his hopes for greater financial health to a vote that would add the Symphony to the Zoo-Museum District, which provides tax dollars to public institutions. But in May, fearing that the issue would go down to defeat in November, Adams and the orchestra's board withdrew the measure from the ballot. Since then, Adams has been on the fund-raising trail. The current pledges for $16 million, he said, "allows me to make an offer that is close to the $73,000 (in current pay). But the musicians found that unacceptable. To be honest, raising that money in the last four months is a minor miracle, given where we could have been. The musicians have known about this situation for the last three years." The biggest divide, he said, "is that the musicians would like us to find a way to divert some of the money that is going for endowment and find a way to support their pay with that money. My problem is that the donors want it all going to the endowment. I don't think we would have matched (the Taylor challenge) without our business plan." Adams declined to discuss the other issues on the table, except to say that he thought the two sides had made "enormous progress" in those areas but that everything is contingent "on having a complete package." He also said that while the musicians had hoped for another Pulitzer-Strauss-style "bridge," "if we could find bridge money, we would just defer the problem for another two to three years, and be right back where we are today. My goal was to raise further endowment, to have a permanent bridge. It's a lot harder to raise $20 million than $2 million, but $2 million would not carry us two years. Our board executive committee fully supports taking the harder path toward permanent growth. "We want to preserve a great orchestra; to preserve artistic quality is absolutely imperative," said Adams. "But fiscal responsibility is the first goal. We have given too many commitments to the community at large, and we cannot betray those commitments." []Critic Sarah Bryan Miller[] []E-mail: sbmiller@post-dispatch.com[] []Forum: stltoday.com/thedresscircle[] []Phone: 314-340-8249[] _____________________________________________________________________ If you enjoyed getting this email about an interesting story, you might like the 3 O'Clock Stir from STLtoday.com. Sign up and you'll receive an email with 5 unique stories of the day, every Monday-Friday, at no charge. Sign up at http://newsletters.stltoday.com _____________________________________________________________________ All content copyright (c) 2004, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, L.L.C. All rights reserved. 900 N. Tucker Blvd, St. Louis MO 63101 You received this email via STLtoday.com's Email a Friend feature. If you want to block any future stories from being sent to you via STLtoday.com's Email a Friend feature, please send an email to: EMAF_Blocklist@stltoday.com From: Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:12:57 +0000 To: , Trombone List Cc: DAVID C OLIVER Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3439] Re: Good to be back! Speaking of which: Can anyone tell me how to cange e-mail addresses with the Trombone-L? AT&T has raised their price on me for the last time, and I got a new DSL setup. Sweet! J.c. From: Charles De Paolo Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:22:45 -0500 To: Trombone List Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3440] Pending Trombone Specific Legislation Subject: Fw: Pending Trombone Legislation WASHINGTON, D.C. - Each year thousands are people are killed, maimed or annoyed by trombones. The statistics of head, neck and even shoulder injuries sustained by reed players, french horn and string sections seated within reach of the deadly seventh position are truly shocking...not to mention forced early retirement due to ever-increasing hearing problems reported by classical musicians of all types who are forced to play the music of Wagner, Mahler and Brahms, as well as the hundreds of alumni of the Herman, Ferguson and Kenton bands and OKOM devotees of Kid Ory, Jack Teagarden, Abe Lincoln Jim Robinson and Lee Gifford. There is current legislation pending in Congress to restrict the sale of trombones and equip them with child-safety devices. The influential trombone lobby is, of course, opposed to this. There have even been several proposals for requiring a so-called "trigger lock" on all bass trombones! Every year there are reports of hundreds of innocent children, attracted by the shiny brass and smooth, seductive curves of an unattended instrument on a stand in the corner of a room or in an unlocked case who are traumatized for life by the attempts of a playmate to get a sound out of it, or who may suffer a collapsed lung or the effects of hyperventilation by trying the same effort themselves! The owner's feeble "I didn't know the slide was unlocked" is no excuse! Trombones should be stored out of reach of children. Efforts to enact a mandatory 10-day waiting period to purchase a trombone - which would simply allow a reasonable period of time for law enforcement officials to cross-check the purchaser's name against an International list of registered trombone offenders and Slide-O-Mix addicts, have been repeatedly thwarted by the powerful Conn-Selmer-Yamaha (CSY) lobby. Law enforcement officials are particularly alarmed over the increase in crimes involving use of the "sawed-off" trombone or "sackbut." Legislation is also pending in several progressive states, including New York and California, to make carrying a concealed alto trombone a Class A felony! Some Governors feel that there are sufficient laws already on the books that simply need stricter enforcement - such as the 1932 nation-wide ban of screw-on bells, the indiscriminate use of Pond's Cold Cream or KY Jelly and unsupervised emptying of spit valves on public property. Filthy unsanitary habit which wil;l help spread the flu this year. One popular response to the spread of delinquent behavior is the imposition of mandatory longer sentences for those using a trombone while committing a crime ("Use a trombone - Go to jail"). Surveillance video tapes have proven especially effective in identifying violators of this statute because career criminals have often tried to avoid convictions by having their lawyers insist that what eye-witnesses reported as a trombone was really only an AK-47 or other legal assaul weapon. Strict enforcement has been especially effective when used in conjunction with the new "Three sharps, you're out" statutes that have already been approved by many state legislatures. Of course the automatic and semi-automatic valved models - both piston and the middle-European rotary, are much more dangerous than the traditional single valve trombone. Interpol has also reported the sudden appearance of of rear-blasting Cavalry models that were thought to have been completely eliminated during the Great Confiscation mandated by the 1918 Treaty of Versailles signed by representatives of every civilized country of the period. You may recall that those instruments were melted down and became an integral part of the Trans-Atlantic Telephone Cable that helped to unite America and Europe. It is believed that the new source of these WMD's are isolated factories in rural areas of China. The awesome destructive power of the double trigger bass trombone could never have been imagined by the founding fathers when they granted us the right to keep and bear arms. Remember: When trombones are outlawed, only outlaws will play "I'm Gettin' Sentimental Over You." (author unknown) ............................................................ : An attachment to this post has been stripped by: : : plaintext.pl : : Original idea by Phillip Porch (ppp@theporch.com) : : Written by Stephen Modena, AB4EL (shimshon@theporch.com) : : Modifications by Mearl Danner, (jmdanner@samford.edu) : : All rights reserved. : ............................................................ From: Earl Needham Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:28:17 -0700 To: Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3441] Re: Good to be back! At 08:12 AM 1/4/2005, thetubameister@att.net wrote: >Speaking of which: Can anyone tell me how to cange e-mail addresses with >the Trombone-L? AT&T has raised their price on me for the last time, and >I got a new DSL setup. Sweet! > >J.c. Go to http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l/ and unsubscribe your old address and subscribe your new one. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk From: Craig Parmerlee Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:27:24 -0500 To: Trombone-L Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3442] Fibre mute versus wood mute I'm playing a concert including some Gershwin stuff that calls for fibre mute. I'm wondering if the Wick wood mutes have a similar character or is that a whole different sound? From: Larry White Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:44:38 -0800 To: Cc: Al MacDonald , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3443] Re: Ear Protection, was Re: Wannabe sound engineers, how to murder Hear!Hear! or is it Here! Here! Have a nice New Year. Remember those on the other side of the Pacific - at least from us here in North America, and the many many people who have suffered loss, and those who are still suffering. LJ Raymond Horton wrote: > I haven't been to a movie theater in a while, but some of the last > times I went, I complained about the excessive volume. > I have been know to leave movies during the previews and say "the > previews are WAY TOO LOUD. If the feature is that loud I'm going to > ask for my money back." > > Every time you think the volume is too high at ANYTHING - COMPLAIN! > That is the ONLY way the people in charge will learn. > > At restaurants I routinely, politely, ask, "Could the music be turned > down a little bit?" > > Unfortunately, I don't go to rock concerts, where some of the real > damage is done.. > > However, this thread has made me resolve to exert more of my > authority, as Minister of Music at my church, to keep the rock band at > the contemporary service at my church (which has been getting louder > every week for the last year and a half) under better control. > If enough people make an ass of themselves, like me, we might get > somewhere and not deafen all of our children. > > Raymond Horton > Bass Trombonist > Louisville Orchestra > > > Al MacDonald wrote: > >> Eric Swanson wrote: >> >> ECS> It seems that they are starting to turn the volume up pretty >> loud in >> ECS> movie theaters now too. I think americans are making themselves >> deaf ECS> and it is compounding. I just ordered some new ear plugs >> that are ECS> supposed to cut off 20 dB and still allow a a normal >> sound. I will post ECS> later after I have tried them out. >> >> I have a custom-fitted pair of Westone earplugs. They make a mold of >> your outer ear canal and a week or so later the earplugs are ready. I >> opted for the least protection (-9dB). The custom plugs allow you to >> hear reasonably well, the 9dB loss takes the edge off. I got them >> when I was playing in a big band, the standard setup generally has a >> trumpet playing directly behind each ear. >> >> I also use them for my "day job", which sometimes involves very loud >> recorded music in outdoor venues. >> >> When the situation gets worse, a set of foam OSHA approved earplugs >> goes in. Doesn't do much for my playing, but at that point it doesn't >> make much difference. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Al >> >> >> >> > > From: Raymond Horton Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:52:36 -0500 To: Howard Weiner Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:3444] Re: Haydn - was: Schubert Thanks for the info, Howard, and the link to the very interesting article. The falset tones on a Bb instrument, indeed, make the most sense. (I should have realized that players would have known about them before Arthur Pryor!) RBH Howard Weiner wrote: > At 15:03 01.01.05 -0500, Raymond Horton wrote: > >> Thanks, Howard, very informative. >> >> Just how common, and where, were the larger basses in Eb and F? And >> what was Haydn writing for in the _Creation_? That work, depending on >> the edition one runs into, has low Ebs, (not in every edition, I >> don't think) a "pedal" Bb and G's above the staff. The only >> instrument that could play all of those pitches would be the (rare) >> bass in Eb. Did Haydn have a particular instrument in mind, or was he >> just writing that wild bass-line part for contrabassoon and bass >> trombone - regardless of the range? > > > The larger basses were originally in D and, less frequently, in E. It > was only after pitch standards changed during the 18th century that > they became E-flat and F instruments. The bass in D was fairly common > in the 17th century. In the 18th century it suffered from the general > decline of the trombones, but was still around in some places (Leipzig > and Salzburg, for example). > > The F bass came into its own in the 19th century when the military > bands were reformed (I recently read the date 1816 for Prussia): the > "Harmoniemusik" of the 18th century (bands of 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 > horns, 2 bassoons, and sometimes a serpent) fell out of favor and > military bands more similar to those of today came into being, with > the F-bass trombone on the bottom. -- During the first half of the > 19th century, when most orchestras did not have a permanent trombone > section, because trombones were still only infrequently required, > military trombonists were often called in when needed to play the > trombone parts. > > I don't know what Haydn was thinking when he wrote that part, but I'm > pretty sure that the Viennese trombone players of the time only had > B-flat instruments. The third trombone part as it appears in the > original edition of 1800 has a low E-flat, three DÕs, two CÕs and a > pedal B-flat. (The Breitkopf & HŠrtel edition pretty much reflects the > first edition; the C.F. Peters edition has been simplified.) The > manuscript third trombone part of the first performance adds to these > two low DÕs, a C, and a pedal B-flat. (Published several years ago by > Oxford University Press in an edition by A. Peter Brown.) > > It's true that an E-flat bass trombone can play all these notes, yet > I've found evidence that this instrument was not used in Vienna in the > 18th century, and that the Viennese trombonists were versed in playing > the low falset tones on the B-flat trombone. I've played the third > part on a tenor sackbut with a somewhat larger mouthpiece, and it > worked great. > > Howard > > > -- > Howard Weiner > weiner@privat.toplink.de > _http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner_ > > If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?