Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 147 Date: Friday, August 27, 2004 12:01 AM From: Multiple recipients of list To: Multiple recipients of list TROMBONE-L Digest 147 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Legs and new knees by "Adrian Drover" 2) Re: Conn 24H by "Adrian Drover" 3) Re: Legs and new knees by "Chris Tune" 4) Re: Conn 24H by "Chris Tune" 5) Re: Instrument and clothing colors by "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" 6) Lassus substitute by "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" 7) RE: TROMBONE-L digest 145 by "Adrian Drover" 8) Re: Conn 24H by "Denny Seifried" 9) Old horn smell by Bob Topper 10) RE: Old horn smell by "Eric Edwards" 11) Re- focal distonia by Jackie Harris-Stone 12) BOB McCHESNEY AT BONES WEST - GEORGE ROBERTS TOO!!! by "Randy Wallen" 13) RE: TROMBONE-L digest 145 by "Chris Tune" 14) Re: focal dystonia by alex iles 15) [Fwd: Re- focal distonia] by Eric Edwards 16) Re: Old horn smell by "Phil Brink" 17) Re: Old horn smell by "Matthew Stoecker" 18) Fwd: Re: Re: focal dystonia by sabutin From: "Adrian Drover" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:19:28 +0100 To: , "Multiple recipients of list" Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1834] Re: Legs and new knees From: "mcclurefamily" > it could have been > an elbow instead, which could have been a royal pain. We have a few of them residing in Buckingham Palace. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: "Adrian Drover" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:13:53 +0100 To: , "List Trombone" Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1835] Re: Conn 24H From: Bill Dinwiddie Amazing! Now why couldn't I figure that out? Once again the List proves its tremendous ability to overcome majorly incorrect assumptions. (Majorly?......is that a word?) I wouldn'tly know. I think the British spelling is probably 'Majourly'. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: "Chris Tune" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:36:14 -0700 To: , , "Multiple recipients of list" Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1836] Re: Legs and new knees It's a big building. . .should be able to handle MORE than just a few! Chris Tune Mandatory trombone content: SOME trombonists are a Royal Pain. . .but remarkably few! crt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: ; "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:19 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1834] Re: Legs and new knees > > From: "mcclurefamily" > > > it could have been > > an elbow instead, which could have been a royal pain. > > > We have a few of them residing in Buckingham Palace. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > From: "Chris Tune" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:05:27 -0700 To: , , "List Trombone" Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1837] Re: Conn 24H May as well have an equipment thread. . .that's one of the things trombonists talk about: I noticed in 1962 on TV (The Jazz Scene -- Steve Allen Exec Producer). The tenor bones in Kenton's band were all playing Conn horns most likely 6H models maybe 32H. Fitzpatrick for sure and the guy to his left also. I ASSUME that the bass bone might have been using Conn too, becuase Conn was very successful with bass bone. Dunno for sure. Would be interesting to hear if anybody knew the exact horns used during this time. This was the Mellophonium band. Funny. . . Dwight Carver is holding the valve body of his Mellophonium in such a way as to give the camera (and us. . ) "the finger". Looks like Kenton was kinda hooked up with Conn at this time. [Conn made the Mellophoniums] I started out on a Conn 4H of that same vintage. Around that same time: 1958. I started in 1971. The thing sounded "dark" not bright. Nevermind the .484 bore. I think that the particular bell flare that they had on the 7" bell helped a lot with that. It's more cone shaped than a 6H. The current Selmer web site mentions that more sudden flares (like a Conn 6H the flaring happens a little later down toward the open bell) contribute to "brightness", while gradual flares (with the flaring distributed more evenly from tuning slide down) contribute to more "dark" sounding horn sound. This makes sense because a Euph has it's flare starting much earlier and more gradually through out the instrument. One would think any thing that makes a horn more conical bore rather than cylindrical bore would make the sound mellower at low volume. I just looked at my King 2B and my Conn 6H (they are sitting right here). And I came up with a way of confirming the optical illusion of bell flare. Where does your first finger and thumb land when you touch them together around the bell? You try to touch them at the lowest point possible while the trombone is on the stand. Then look and figure out how far you are up from the bell. On the Kind 2b I'd say this happened about 9 inches up. The Conn 6H it was around 8 inches up. Larger horn. Less of a gradual bell flare. This Conn was an IMMENSELY (I know that's a word) popular horn here in Los Angeles through the fifties and sixties. Started to phase out in the 70's. You can see on the original vinyl record album jacket for Tutti's Trombones (roughly 1971 release probably recorded much earlier. . .the record is in the box in the garage) that Tommy Pedersen is using one and so is Herbie Harper. That's pretty good representation in a group that size. Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Drover To: billdin@comcast.net ; List Trombone Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:13 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1835] Re: Conn 24H From: Bill Dinwiddie Amazing! Now why couldn't I figure that out? Once again the List proves its tremendous ability to overcome majorly incorrect assumptions. (Majorly?......is that a word?) I wouldn'tly know. I think the British spelling is probably 'Majourly'. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:07:46 +0200 To: Raymond Horton , slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: Trombone-L Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1838] Re: Instrument and clothing colors -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Horton [mailto:rayhorton@insightbb.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 15:56 To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: walttrombone@optonline.net; Trombone-L Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1816] Re: Instrument and clothing colors >Adrian Drover >ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk >Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > > Adrian, never leave us. RBH Never fear. He's been kicked off all the other forums. Where else is he gonna go? From: "Richardson, Timothy Mr. DAC 417 BSB DPW - ERMD" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:24:35 +0200 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1839] Lassus substitute I was one who asked for an alternate suggestion. Not much out there, but I've thought of one myself. It doesn't fit all the criteria. The average community band would be unlikely to play it well, if at all. (We could discuss what playing well is, I guess. Sabutin pointed out recently the modern zero defects criterion is problematic, not just in jazz but in classical. I could argue I've played in a number of groups that were not technically proficient, but made music the audience wanted to hear. Or I could just get back on topic.) Have you ever heard the Cities Service version of "Old Oaken Bucket?" On an LP called Sunday Concert in the Park, or some such title. It's one of the few LPs I saved when I made the move to CD. It's a glorious trombone feature. I don't know who plays on it, I think Simone Mantia used to sit in that section though. If I could find my turntable, I'd move it over to CD now. I wouldn't mind hearing it redone by Slidewerke, when Mike gets back out of the hospital . It is possible Oaken Bucket is offensive to somebody, I admit I can't remember the words. Technology killed Woodup Quickstep more than a hundred years ago, it's making quite an assault on the rest of the wind band music now. Ah well, old fart syndrome. From: "Adrian Drover" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:12:48 +0100 To: , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1840] RE: TROMBONE-L digest 145 From: "walter barrett" > As long as you count the beans while doing long tones, It's OK... Would it not be easier to fill the horn up with baked beans in tomato ketchup (catsup?), then you only need to count the empty cans. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: "Denny Seifried" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:05:26 -0400 To: "Chris Tune" Cc: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1841] Re: Conn 24H Hi Chris, I was able to see the Kenton Mellophonium band, a couple of times, live, at the wonderful, old Cedar Point Ballroom, at Cedar Point Amusement Park(the sides opened-up-to make it open aired in the summer-no air conditioning in those days), in Sandusky, Ohio. The first year, I heard them, it was their first year on the road, with the mellophoniums, and they were not very good! A lot of missed and out of tune notes came from those horns, that particular year; however, one year later, and it was a different story, all together. You are right, as this was a huge Conn era, in the Kenton Band, with most of the guys on 6H's. I remember talking with some of them, during the break, and a couple may have been using the 6H bell and a 48H slide section, as the 48H slide was a little more streamlined, with lighter bracing and weight. Jiggs Whigam was on the band, the second year I heard the mellophone band, as I remember he had a lot of family members there, as he was from the Cleveland area, originally. From the late 1950's (I had seen this band a couple of times around 1959 or 60) and the bass bone of choice was the Conn 72H, single valve. Sometime during the Mellophone Era, Dave Wheeler came on the band on tuba and bass bone, and this was one of the very first dependent two valve horns, which was a Reynolds, I had ever seen. I also caught the Harry James Band right around 1961 or 62, and whoever played bass bone on Harry's Band, was also using a Reynolds two valve bass bone. During the Dick Shearer era, there were a lot of different brands in the trombone section, as Dick used a Bach or King, as Mike Suter pointed out, recently, in a Shearer thread, over on the OTJF. Bass bones were mixed, also, as I remember Mike Wallace used an Earl Williams bass, Bill Hartman used a Conn 62H or 73H. Later on, some of the Kenton bass bone players went to Holton TR-180's or TR-169's. I loaned a new TR-180 of mine, to Wallace & Hartman, at a concert, here in Springfield, OH; and a few weeks later, the Kenton Band was in the Kenosha WI area, and Mike and Bill picked-up TR-180's from Sandy Sanbourn, at Holton, in Elkhorn WI. What a great era, in big band times! Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music Forum Moderator-Online Trombone Journal Forum ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Tune To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk ; billdin@comcast.net ; List Trombone Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:05 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1837] Re: Conn 24H May as well have an equipment thread. . .that's one of the things trombonists talk about: I noticed in 1962 on TV (The Jazz Scene -- Steve Allen Exec Producer). The tenor bones in Kenton's band were all playing Conn horns most likely 6H models maybe 32H. Fitzpatrick for sure and the guy to his left also. I ASSUME that the bass bone might have been using Conn too, becuase Conn was very successful with bass bone. Dunno for sure. Would be interesting to hear if anybody knew the exact horns used during this time. This was the Mellophonium band. Funny. . . Dwight Carver is holding the valve body of his Mellophonium in such a way as to give the camera (and us. . ) "the finger". Looks like Kenton was kinda hooked up with Conn at this time. [Conn made the Mellophoniums] I started out on a Conn 4H of that same vintage. Around that same time: 1958. I started in 1971. The thing sounded "dark" not bright. Nevermind the .484 bore. I think that the particular bell flare that they had on the 7" bell helped a lot with that. It's more cone shaped than a 6H. The current Selmer web site mentions that more sudden flares (like a Conn 6H the flaring happens a little later down toward the open bell) contribute to "brightness", while gradual flares (with the flaring distributed more evenly from tuning slide down) contribute to more "dark" sounding horn sound. This makes sense because a Euph has it's flare starting much earlier and more gradually through out the instrument. One would think any thing that makes a horn more conical bore rather than cylindrical bore would make the sound mellower at low volume. I just looked at my King 2B and my Conn 6H (they are sitting right here). And I came up with a way of confirming the optical illusion of bell flare. Where does your first finger and thumb land when you touch them together around the bell? You try to touch them at the lowest point possible while the trombone is on the stand. Then look and figure out how far you are up from the bell. On the Kind 2b I'd say this happened about 9 inches up. The Conn 6H it was around 8 inches up. Larger horn. Less of a gradual bell flare. This Conn was an IMMENSELY (I know that's a word) popular horn here in Los Angeles through the fifties and sixties. Started to phase out in the 70's. You can see on the original vinyl record album jacket for Tutti's Trombones (roughly 1971 release probably recorded much earlier. . .the record is in the box in the garage) that Tommy Pedersen is using one and so is Herbie Harper. That's pretty good representation in a group that size. Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Drover To: billdin@comcast.net ; List Trombone Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:13 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1835] Re: Conn 24H From: Bill Dinwiddie Amazing! Now why couldn't I figure that out? Once again the List proves its tremendous ability to overcome majorly incorrect assumptions. (Majorly?......is that a word?) I wouldn'tly know. I think the British spelling is probably 'Majourly'. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk From: Bob Topper Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:21:42 -0400 To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1842] Old horn smell I'm in need of a home remedy here. I just bought a '30s vintage 6h with its original case. The case has that horrible, musty old horn smell which naturally gets all over the horn. Any suggestions short of trashing the case? From: "Eric Edwards" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:18:51 -0700 To: "Trombone-L" , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1843] RE: Old horn smell Try spraying the case with Lysol or Febreeze and then setting the case out in the sun for a few hours. It might take a couple of tries. Good Luck Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards bonearzt@cox.net "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price fades". -----Original Message----- From: owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu [mailto:owner-TROMBONE-L@listproc.samford.edu]On Behalf Of Bob Topper Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:22 AM To: TROMBONE-L@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1842] Old horn smell I'm in need of a home remedy here. I just bought a '30s vintage 6h with its original case. The case has that horrible, musty old horn smell which naturally gets all over the horn. Any suggestions short of trashing the case? From: Jackie Harris-Stone Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 05:51:32 -0700 (PDT) To: "K.D. Kneeburg" Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1844] Re- focal distonia Dear Don, I'm really sorry to hear about your distonia. I haven't had any experience with it myself, but I've heard from a couple sources that Jan Kagarice (University of North Texas) has had huge success in helping people with focal distonia. Good luck! Jackie Harris-Stone __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From: "Randy Wallen" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:46:10 -0700 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1845] BOB McCHESNEY AT BONES WEST - GEORGE ROBERTS TOO!!! Just one last quick update regarding the clinic at Bones West this Saturday... George Roberts, the founder of BonesWest, is going to drop by to say hello this Saturday. Please c'mon by to say hi to George and to take part in what promises to be a great clinic and workshop. WHAT: Bob McChesney Clinic at Bones West DATE: August 28, 2004 TIME: 9:30am-12:30pm LOCATION: 2050 S. Main Street, Santa Ana, CA (AFM Local #7) QUESTIONS? (949) 675-6499 About BonesWest: http://www.boneswest.org/ About Bob McChesney: http://www.bobmcchesney.com/index.html From: "Chris Tune" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:53:08 -0700 To: , , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1846] RE: TROMBONE-L digest 145 And maybe if you get enough beans accumulated and can find an Ann Margaret, you can redo the scene from Tommy (the movie). :) Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:12 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1840] RE: TROMBONE-L digest 145 > > From: "walter barrett" > > > As long as you count the beans while doing long tones, It's OK... > > > Would it not be easier to fill the horn up with baked beans in tomato > ketchup (catsup?), then you only need to count the empty cans. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > From: alex iles Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:53:56 -0800 To: trombone_76@hotmail.com Cc: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1847] Re: focal dystonia Hi Don, I am sorry to hear about your frustrating situation. There are several things that can create a "chop problem". Some of them are related to a playing issue while other problems are just not possible to "fix" with attention paid to musical/physical practice. Focal Dystonia [FD] is a neurological condition that cannot be fixed with practice. To make sure that you actually have FD, you should get positively diagnosed by a qualified physician [usually a neurologist, I believe] who is familiar with facial focal dystonia. There are several forms of dystonia. FFD, or embouchure dystonia is the one that affects wind and brass players . Sounds to me [and I am NOT a doctor!!!] like you have been experiencing something similar to the cases I have heard about anecdotally. I have a woodwind player friend who started getting an involutary "pull" [or twitch] in the corners of her mouth when she put a sax mouthpiece in playing position. After a year or so of just trying to adjust things, she eventually could not hold an embouchure at all, with or without the instrument on her face. Her condition progressed over the next couple of years. Being a diligent musician, she thought she just needed to "work on it" in the practice room. She eventually could not even hold a pencil between her lips without locking up. She also tried Botox and it relieved her a bit, but only temporarily. At this point there is no known "cure" for the condition. The medical community is actually kind of at a loss as to why this false firing of the nerves occurs at all. Some say environmental or some psychological conditions may contribute to it--but this evidence is sketchy. At one time, many observers thought it might be brought on by over-use, but some studies have suggested that even young kids who have just started playing musical instruments can develop symptoms in their first few years of playing. There are many stories about "treating" the condition. There are also a lot of "snake oil" cures out there that people offer up. Be sure to get the all the facts you need. It is important to realize this about FD...THERE IS NO KNOWN CURE!! Anyone who claims to have had "success" helping someone who has been positively diagnosed with FD will at best notice short term improvement. This is NOT an issue to "work on" with a music teacher, it is a NEUROLOGICAL condition. There is an FD bulletin board at: www.dystonia-bb.org/forumarchives/mwd-current/archive.html . Glen Estrin, a professional horn player who has FD and VERY knowledgable on this subject contributes regularly to this bulletin board. There are several resources on the 'net for you to check out. Start with the dystonia foundation website to begin informing yourself.[www.dystonia-foundation.org]. But be sure to see a neurologist familiar with FD to get a proper diagnosis! Good luck, Alex Iles ========================================= "K.D. Kneeburg" wrote: I would like to know if anyone on the listserve has had any experience with facial focal dystonia. My situation is that when I put the mouthpiece up to my face, my left corner pulls all the way back. This also happens when I chew food. This started happening about eight years ago and regardless of what I do I can't' defeat it. It is an involuntary movement. I have tried a Botox injection which helped somewhat, but I really don't like toxins like that in my body. This condition affects many musicians from violinists to flutist to pianists, to brass musicians. Any suggestions? Don Kneeburg Donāt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! From: Eric Edwards Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:01:08 -0400 To: Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1848] [Fwd: Re- focal distonia] I have a friend at UNT that has worked through FD with guidance from Jan Kagarice. He has had incredible success working with Mrs.Kagarice. I would suggest talking with her and finding a solution to deal with this affliction. Best of luck!! Eric > From: Jackie Harris-Stone > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 05:51:32 -0700 (PDT) > To: "K.D. Kneeburg" > CC: trombone-l@server5.samford.edu > Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1844] Re- focal distonia > > Dear Don, > I'm really sorry to hear about your distonia. I haven't had any experience with it myself, but I've heard from a couple sources that Jan Kagarice (University of North Texas) has had huge success in helping people with focal distonia. > Good luck! > Jackie Harris-Stone > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has faded" From: "Phil Brink" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:07:08 -0500 To: , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1849] Re: Old horn smell I just bought something which claims to clean out that "old horn smell" from the horn itself - it's called Horn Flush. I'll let you know how it works for me it you'd like - here's their home page" http://hornflush.com/ Good luck! Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Topper" To: Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:21 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1842] Old horn smell > I'm in need of a home remedy here. I just bought a '30s vintage 6h with > its original case. The case has that horrible, musty old horn smell which > naturally gets all over the horn. Any suggestions short of trashing the case? > From: "Matthew Stoecker" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:13:16 -0700 To: , , Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1850] Re: Old horn smell Use Febreeze on the case. Works wonders! Matthew Stoecker ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Brink To: topper@pav.research.panasonic.com ; TROMBONE-L@server5.samfordedu Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1849] Re: Old horn smell I just bought something which claims to clean out that "old horn smell" from the horn itself - it's called Horn Flush. I'll let you know how it works for me it you'd like - here's their home page" http://hornflush.com/ Good luck! Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Topper" To: > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:21 AM Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1842] Old horn smell > I'm in need of a home remedy here. I just bought a '30s vintage 6h with > its original case. The case has that horrible, musty old horn smell which > naturally gets all over the horn. Any suggestions short of trashing the case? > From: sabutin Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:40:07 -0400 To: TROMBONE-L@server5.SAMFORD.EDU Subject: [TROMBONE-L:1851] Fwd: Re: Re: focal dystonia Hi Don, I am sorry to hear about your frustrating situation. There are several things that can create a "chop problem". Some of them are related to a playing issue while other problems are just not possible to "fix" with attention paid to musical/physical practice. Focal Dystonia [FD] is a neurological condition that cannot be fixed with practice. To make sure that you actually have FD, you should get positively diagnosed by a qualified physician [usually a neurologist, I believe] who is familiar with facial focal dystonia. There are several forms of dystonia. FFD, or embouchure dystonia is the one that affects wind and brass players . Sounds to me [and I am NOT a doctor!!!] like you have been experiencing something similar to the cases I have heard about anecdotally. ============================================================================= Gotta be careful, here. I have suspected for some time that the entire medical profession is up the creek without a paddle about a number of things, and this includes "focal dystonia". They call every infection under the sun "a cold", lumping any NUMBER of entirely separate conditions under one catch-all and then prescribing medicines that only treat the symptoms. AND...there is a "Disease of the Month" (Year, decade....) club in effect as well. "Focal dystonia" is one of these in many cases, I suspect. I am not saying it does not exist...but I AM saying that it is WAY over-diagnosed, and that "going to a qualified doctor" can be something of a self -fulfilling prophecy in this instance if you are not VERY careful. Go to a liver doctor with some sort of disease and you are quite likely to find that indeed you do have liver problems. Take the same disease to a neurologist...a whole different look ensues. So...be careful. I had a long talk w/Jan Kagarice about this subject at the ITF this summer. She is looking at it NOT from an entirely "musical" position, but some of her views and solutions are indeed informed by music. A precursor to this "focal dystonia" epidemic ...which coincidentally only seems to happen to well educated people who have heard of it, never to jazz or latin or folk musicians who are living outside of the area of society where it is often referenced...was the so-called "Valsalva maneuver" problem where brass players lost their ability to attack, supposedly because they lost the ability to open up the back of the throat at the right time. This resulted in a stutter-like inabilty to make a clean start to notes...often only in certain ranges. Screwed up quite a few players, too. Permanently. Carmine Caruso solved thus kind of problem every day, without ever naming it. He basically said that the player had lost his inner time, and then taught him to re-establish it. This worked, too... It appears to me that much the same thing is happening to any NUMBER of brass musicians who are using the words "focal dystonia" as a sort of excuse for losing their chops. They try to play past their balance and strength abilities (especially in today's blaring symphonic brass world, being asked to play FFFFF on huge equipment before they are really developed as players), lose their embouchure focus, hear the words "focal dystonia", and jump to unnecessary conclusions. Now I am not saying this is true in EVERY case....but often enough for me to say "Be careful". Jan Kagarice agreed with me, and spoke of successful experiments using time...just like Carmine did...to help people with all SORTS of serious muscular/neurological disconnects. Makes sense to me... ================================================ I have a woodwind player friend who started getting an involutary "pull" [or twitch] in the corners of her mouth when she put a sax mouthpiece in playing position. After a year or so of just trying to adjust things, she eventually could not hold an embouchure at all, with or without the instrument on her face. Her condition progressed over the next couple of years. Being a diligent musician, she thought she just needed to "work on it" in the practice room. She eventually could not even hold a pencil between her lips without locking up. She also tried Botox and it relieved her a bit, but only temporarily. At this point there is no known "cure" for the condition. The medical community is actually kind of at a loss as to why this false firing of the nerves occurs at all. Some say environmental or some psychological conditions may contribute to it--but this evidence is sketchy. At one time, many observers thought it might be brought on by over-use, but some studies have suggested that even young kids who have just started playing musical instruments can develop symptoms in their first few years of playing. There are many stories about "treating" the condition. There are also a lot of "snake oil" cures out there that people offer up. Be sure to get the all the facts you need. It is important to realize this about FD...THERE IS NO KNOWN CURE!! Anyone who claims to have had "success" helping someone who has been positively diagnosed with FD will at best notice short term improvement. This is NOT an issue to "work on" with a music teacher, it is a NEUROLOGICAL condition. There is an FD bulletin board at: www.dystonia-bb.org/forumarchives/mwd-current/archive.html . Glen Estrin, a professional horn player who has FD and VERY knowledgable on this subject contributes regularly to this bulletin board. There are several resources on the 'net for you to check out. Start with the dystonia foundation website to begin informing yourself.[www.dystonia-foundation.org]. But be sure to see a neurologist familiar with FD to get a proper diagnosis! Good luck, Alex Iles ========================================= Again... Alex. If there is "no known cure"...why go to a doctor? Just like treating a cold or the flu. Look for other approaches instead. The medical profession is INDEED 'actually kind of at a loss" on a NUMBER of fronts. Really, they are VERY big on diagnosis but not so hot on cure. If I had this kind of problem, I would look VERY carefully at how I was playing. FIRST. And how I was living as well. I would THOROUGHLY clean out my system. Drugs, alcohol, sugar, tobacco, overeating, overweight, lack of exercise, sluggish elimination...out the window. Immediately. If nothing came of those approaches, after a few months or so I would look into acupuncture with the heaviest acupuncturist I could find. (Or maybe along WITH those ideas.) The chances are that any number of these problems...which seem to center around orchestral brass players who have tried to play past their physical abilities...have to do with nerve and muscular injury that becomes chronic. The nerve pathways get blocked by repeated stress, which is exactly what acupuncture seeks to treat. The MIND gets blocked by repeated failure, as well...a whole 'nother can of snakes. Meditation cleans out the mind. Worth a try... Y'see...this just doesn't seem to happen so often in less structured systems. It seems to me that there are a couple of possible explanations for this. First...if no one KNOWS about "focal dystonia", they can't very well HAVE it. So they treat it as a chop problem and it goes away. And/or... In less organized scenes, you are only as good as your last note. No tenure; no excuses, very little "Well, keep trying, Kid. You'll get it eventually". Quite a LOT of "Go home and practice, or at LEAST go sit on the 4th chair until you get your act together." You cannot keep on failing to do something in an achievement based scene. But in the symphonic world...especially on the lower levels and in schools...some poor tuba player or french hornist lands in a spot they can't handle and the scene is so uptight that they often stay there, trying and failing, trying and failing, until they fall apart. Sad. But not terminal. Later... Sam Burtis Sam Burtis is a NYC freelance trombonist and composer, the author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC. Visit us on the web at and/or , email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. The actual store in NYC is by appointment only. PLEASE VISIT THE OPEN HORN, A WEB FORUM Lots of interesting discussions going on every day. An introduction to the site is available at or just come on over check it out at -- Sam Burtis is a NYC freelance trombonist and composer, the author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC. Visit us on the web at and/or , email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. The actual store in NYC is by appointment only. PLEASE VISIT THE OPEN HORN, A WEB FORUM Lots of interesting discussions going on every day. An introduction to the site is available at or just come on over check it out at