Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 4 Mar 2004 to 5 Mar 2004 (#2004-66) Date: Saturday, March 6, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 43 messages totalling 1954 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Pneumo thorax (3) 2. "Dancing Nightly" 3. Conn 78H (2) 4. Victory for Public Broadcasting 5. New Mahler 3 Recording 6. TROMBONE-L Digest - 3 Mar 2004 to 4 Mar 2004 (#2004-65) 7. The Slide Heard 'Round the World 2004 8. Solfege (8) 9. Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant (6) 10. Mahler 3 and shameless plug 11. Trombone-L Is Closing (15) 12. New Mexico State at CBDNA (2) 13. Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone-L Is Closing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:10:45 -0800 From: Galen McQuarrie Subject: Re: Pneumo thorax List folk, I'll try to give an MD perspective on this condition. I don't think that this is a tension pneumothorax, from the description, It sounds like a "spontaneous" pneumothorax, a condition that is associated with a "bleb" or thinning of the lung tissue. (It's a little hard to talk in laymen terms here.) These blebs will break and allow aire into the pleural space and allow the lung to collapse. I have taken care of individuals with this condition in the past, and my wife has a nephew that has had severe difficulties with it. There are proceedures that can correct the problem in many instances. The condition is markedly varible. In some they may have only one episode. and not have further difficulties. In other people it can be a persistent and debilitating condition. A person needs to give the affected area time to heal, hence the period of time off the horn. Blowing an instrument causes increased intra thoracic pressure. After that healing period, many can resume playing. Others, unfortunately, have continuing difficulties. Without knowing the particulars of this case, it would be hard to say what the outlook is. A "tension" pneumothorax usuallly occurs after a severe injury to the chest. Hope this helps Galen McQuarrie -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of walter barrett Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:45 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Pneumo thorax On 3/4/04 11:10 PM, Karl Hinterbichler smote the keyboard with... > A trombone student here at the University of New Mexico recently came down > with pneumo thorax. His doctor told him it was partially caused by his > playing and that he would have to stop until at least the end of the > semester. Possibly it could end his career. > Does anyone on the list have any experience with this lung condition? > > Karl Hinterbichler > University of New Mexico There's some info here... http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000087.htm I'm guessing, but it seems most likely to be a "Tension pneumothorax", caused by excess of tension in the chest. (Pneumothorax is when air is outside the lung, between the lung and chest wall. It can also be caused by a punctured lung- Traumatic pneumothorax) Ending his career would be bad, but it sounds like it could kill him, too. If it is a tension type, at the very least, he'll need to take a hard look at his approach to breathing and tone production. If Jake were still with us, I'm sure he'd have some ideas, mayhaps Brian Frederickson will chime in? Walter Barrett "...you don't want a mouthpiece the size of a latte mug!" -Dr. Carole Nowicke Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:12:49 -0600 From: David Johansen Subject: Re: Pneumo thorax Karl, The only time I've heard mention of this was when it was described as a condition experienced while scuba diving. Pneumothorax is caused by the overexpansion and rupturing of the lung alveoli. The rupture of the lung surface occurs through a weakened area and air enters the space between the lungs and lining of the chest wall. Severe and sharp chest pain occurs and short breathing occurs. In almost 30 years of diving, I've never seen this occur. I don't suppose that this student is a diver? The treatment (at least 30 years ago) involves inserting a syringe through the chest wall into the air pocket and relieving the pressure and re-inflating the lung. Sounds ghastly. Dave Johansen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Hinterbichler" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Pneumo thorax > A trombone student here at the University of New Mexico recently came down > with pneumo thorax. His doctor told him it was partially caused by his > playing and that he would have to stop until at least the end of the > semester. Possibly it could end his career. > Does anyone on the list have any experience with this lung condition? > > Karl Hinterbichler > University of New Mexico > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:12:41 -0000 From: Kevan Lomas Subject: Re: Pneumo thorax Hi Sounds most likely to be a spontaneous pneumothorax, these are often found in young thin men, more often than not following a coughing fit. This may well be a one off for the student concerned but he does need to take the Drs advice and lay off playing untill he has healed. Also no aircraft flights. Tension pneumothorax is a medical emergency, and normaly due to direct chest trauma, if this was the case I'm sure the student would have been sent to hospital. He needs to take proper medical advice re the long term. Regards Kevan Lomas UK -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Karl Hinterbichler Sent: 05 March 2004 04:11 To: Subject: [TBN-L] Pneumo thorax A trombone student here at the University of New Mexico recently came down with pneumo thorax. His doctor told him it was partially caused by his playing and that he would have to stop until at least the end of the semester. Possibly it could end his career. Does anyone on the list have any experience with this lung condition? Karl Hinterbichler University of New Mexico ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:33:40 -0500 From: John Burton Subject: "Dancing Nightly" Is there a BASS trombone chart for this Maynard standard? I've been taking a lot from both 2Trombone and 3Trombone and kinda making a Bass chart, but wondering if there isn't a chart around of a bit higher quality. Have a gig Saturday night backing Jim Manley and he pulled out "Dancing Nightly"... Thanks! ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= john burton Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra South Charleston, West Virginia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:19:25 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Re: Conn 78H On Thursday, March 4, 2004, at 11:18 PM, Price Taylor wrote: > To echo Jeff's comments about that 6 1/2AL -- I have read from several > sources that it was designed for the Conn 78H -- this would also > include the > Bach 36B but a lot of folks (like me) use them on a 3B. > > Price Or a Bach 16M.... :-) Wayne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:24:42 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: Victory for Public Broadcasting >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:58:56 -0000 >From: Adrian Drover >Subject: Re: Victory for Public Broadcasting > >From: "Jeff Oien" > >> I hope not! I was thinking of trying an experiment where >> I would use flammable slide lube instead of the safer >> non-flammable. Then playing a hot bebop riff (or whatever >> term you jazz musicians like to use {notice I didn't use >> the term "jazzer" so as not to offend anybody}) > >So "jazzer" is now a politically incorrect word too? Geez!, if I have to >take any more words out of my dictionary, there won't anything left to >write with. >> and seeing >> if my slide catches on fire. Only problem is I don't have >> a digital video camera. Would that keep you on the list? >You be careful with that stuff now. It could do serious harm to your spit >valve cork. >A. And if that happens, the only thing you can do is put it out to pasture. And did I mention I have a very nice pasture...:-) Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:34:45 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: New Mahler 3 Recording >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:16:29 -0500 >From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." >Subject: New Mahler 3 Recording >Dear Listers, > OK, here it is---a brand spanking new recording of Mahler 3, on the >Telarc label with the New Philharmonia Orchestra. It still might even be on >sale for $16.99. I have never heard of Brian Fulcher, the principal >trombone, but I can tell you this much, this is the recording that I plan >to >use to really study this piece. Brian appears to be one of those trombone >players in the world who is in the unsung hero class, and the way that he >plays the solo is absolutely magnificent. The conductor is Benjamin Zander, >and the playing of the entire orchestra is absolutely magnificent. I just >listened to the first movement, and IT IS A KEEPER. If any of our friends >from the UK can tell us more about Brian Fulcher, I for 1 would be very >interested in knowing more about him. >Paul Kemp >Chattanooga Symphony While we're talking about new recordings of Mahler 3, I recently picked the Vienna Philharmonic with Boulez doing this work on the Deutsche Grammophon label. Ian Bousfield had joined Vienna by this point and is the one playing the solos. The overall recording is MAGNIFICENT!! Boulez's tempos tend to be on the slow side (when ARE his tempos not on the slow side IMHO), but what the band does with the music at the tempo is wonderful. Ian's playing is very good. If you are looking for an alternative to the NY/Bernstein recording, this is VERY worthy. Great orchestra, Great trombone player, nuff said. Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:39:00 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 3 Mar 2004 to 4 Mar 2004 (#2004-65) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:53:21 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: polishing silver? Hi folks, I'm having a really hard time polishing some tarnished sliver-plated mouthpieces. Suggestions? ===== Gabe Langfur Boston, MA Here at the store I work at, our repairman uses Hagerty Silver Polish and a Selmer silver polishing cloth. The polishing cloth can get most tarnish off without resorting to the Hagerty's. The Hagerty's is a jewelers silver polish that comes in an aerosol can. It is about as big as the old hairspray canisters. Between the two, the mouthpiece should clean up fine. Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:36:39 -0500 From: "David A. Schwartz" Subject: The Slide Heard 'Round the World 2004 Dear Listers, International Trombone Week is coming up in April. I'm making plans for an online seminar, April 8, 2004. Last year I took part in an Internet2 web conference, The Slide Heard 'Round the World, among three Rhode Island middle schools, The Austin Bones from the University of Texas, with hosts Collen Wheeler of Wheaton College in nearby Norton, Massachusetts, and Matthew McGarrell of Brown University. This year, in addition to a similar master class session with the List's Gabriel Langfur, we three are plotting a virtual visit with Steve Shires, our own Massachusetts Master Trombone Builder. This session will be aimed at college and graduate school level trombonists who want to learn about equipment choices and developments in professional level trombone making. If you are a trombone teacher or a trombone student whose univeristy is a member of Internet2 (There are 205 member universities! Below is a link to a list of members.) ... If you and a group - it can be a small group - at your school would like to take part in a live Internet2 session... If you're available Thursday, April 8, 2004, for an hour somewhere in the 1PM to 3PM EST vicinity... ...Please get in touch with me to discuss possible participation. Please reach me off line either today this coming week. You can email me here or you can telephone me at 617 484-1490. David David A. Schwartz Belmont, Massachusetts For a list of the 205 member univesities, visit the Internet2 member site: http://members.internet2.edu/university/universities.cfm For more information, including streaming video of last year's Slide Heard 'Round the World, visit this URL: http://www.wheatonma.edu/IT_S/internet2/Trombone/home.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:55:09 -0800 From: David Guion Subject: Re: Solfege Why not sing ãone, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eightä? >Those are the names they will need to know later on, if they do study music. Four reasons: 1))The numbers have meaning outside a musical context, while the syllables are unambiguously musical. 2) Mi-fa and ti-do are specifically half steps (while 3-4 and 7-8 are not) and other adjacent syllables are specifically whole steps. All the syllables refer to the relationship of one pitch to another within the context of the scale. Even singing note names will accomplish that. 3) The syllables are the same pattern of whole steps and half steps regardless of mode. C is do whether it is in C major or A minor; C has to be 1 in C major and 3 in A minor. 4) 1 and 8 are different octaves of the same note. Why use 8 at all? Because 7 up to 1 is counterintuitive. But then if you sing past the tonic, what's higher than 8? 9? 2? *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* David Guion Founder, Piedmont Brass Band Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? david@trombone.org *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ Sent via trombone.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:14:45 -0500 From: "David A. Schwartz" Subject: Re: Solfege Reason 5: The solfege "syllables" end in vowel sounds, helping one experience the resonance of each interval against the tonic. The mind and body are very good at feeling the consonant intervals, 2:1, 3:2 for the fifth, 4:3 for the fourth, etc. According to W.A. Mathieu, in his book, /Harmonic Experience/, even better resonances are experienced in Sargam, from Sanskrit. Do, re, mi, fa, sol are replaced by sa, re, ga, ma pa, dha, ni and sa. Have any listers tried Sargam? David Guion wrote: > Why not sing ãone, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eightä? > > >>Those are the names they will need to know later on, if they do study music. >> >> > >Four reasons: 1))The numbers have meaning outside a musical context, while the syllables are unambiguously musical. 2) Mi-fa and ti-do are specifically half steps (while 3-4 and 7-8 are not) and other adjacent syllables are specifically whole steps. All the syllables refer to the relationship of one pitch to another within the context of the scale. Even singing note names will accomplish that. 3) The syllables are the same pattern of whole steps and half steps regardless of mode. C is do whether it is in C major or A minor; C has to be 1 in C major and 3 in A minor. 4) 1 and 8 are different octaves of the same note. Why use 8 at all? Because 7 up to 1 is counterintuitive. But then if you sing past the tonic, what's higher than 8? 9? 2? > >*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* >David Guion >Founder, Piedmont Brass Band > >Who is General Failure? And why is he >reading my hard drive? > >david@trombone.org > > >*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* > > > >______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ >Sent via trombone.org > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:29:40 -0600 From: Emil Orth Subject: Re: Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant Hi Craig, I' m very pleased that you have found replacements for Pledge. Its too much of a shame that you should to have jump thru so many hoops and go thru so many steps (7 or 8) with Meguires or Armor All and trombotine and water mist to get a slick slide on any horn you may own. I zeroed in on you're mention of a 3B slide as I also am a 3 B fan and player.. I am old enough (75)to have tried everything known to mankind to make for a good slide. I was on SOM for about 4-5 years and thot' I had arrived, but then last December I decided to try a bottle of "Reka Superslide". My God, this stuff is SO much above the other stuff that I can 't hide my enthusiasm (and I'm not on their payroll).!!! I do not carry water with me anymore as it only dilutes...don't need it. One application usually lasts me thru about 3-4 gigs. When it begins to lose that buttery/cushioned feeling I simply wipe with my bare hand skin up and down the slide and simply reapply a drop or so to the inners and then work it in smoothly and then were off and running. Of course, if you change over to this Reka you really should clean out all that other gummy goop and really give it a chance. It sure works great for me.....would like to hear from you if you care to try it! Emil Orth, Beale St Jazz Band, Memphis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant > At 10:42 PM 3/1/2004, JFBermann@AOL.COM wrote: > >I found a terrific replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant. > >It doesn't have that lemon smell, but is non-flammable, non-toxic, > >non-corrosive, and odorless. Works fantastic on the slide and > >for cleaning lacquered surfaces. And it comes in a pump spray > >plastic bottle. > > As long as we're talking about it, there is a brand new product just > coming onto the shelves right now. It is Meguiar's "nxt [sic] > generation TECH PROTECTANT". It comes in a purple spray bottle, like > the Armor All. This is a finish polish with lots of micro polymers > (i.e. improved Teflon). Because these products are made to be safe on > clear coat, they should be completely safe on the slides. Clear coat > is a lot softer than brass. I have a King 3B slide that is good, but > never has been great no matter what I do. Alignment seems to be > perfect, but it just gets sluggish. Here's my procedure: > > 1) Clean outers thoroughly with Wrights. Wash with soap and swap > completely clean and dry with cheesecloth. > > 2) Wipe the inners clean, then clean again with alcohol. > > 3) Assemble the slide. Dribble a generous amount of Meguiars down the > tubes. It comes out like a runny gel. Work the Meguiars thoroughly > into both tubes. Wipe the inners and work it some more. Keep wiping > the inners until you have smoothed out and removed the excess Meguiar's. > > 4) Remove the inner slide and wipe clean. Clean again with > alcohol. Leave the outer alone for 15 minutes to let the remaining > Meguair's bond to the tubes. > > 5) Swap the outers thoroughly with clean cheesecloth until the cloth > comes out clean. > > 6) Apply a microscopically thin layer of Trombotine (Superslick or cold > creme). The purpose is to make water bead, not to provide lubrication. > > 7) Assemble the slide, then give each tube a shot of Armor All > Protectant (silicone solution). > > 8) Work the slide. If it isn't really fast, swab the outers again, > clean the inners and reapply Trombotine and Armor All. > > For the first time ever on this slide, step 8 was not necessary. The > slide is as fast as I have ever seen it. Moreover, with the Meguiar's, > it feels more "buttery", no sense of scratching at all. > > A lot of slides work great without any special attention, but this King > one has always been borderline good. If you have a slide like this, > try it. Maybe it will work for you. > > Now on to my next project: turning a Thrush glass pack muffler into a > cimbasso mute. (I wonder if I'm spending too much time at the auto > parts store.) > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:44:19 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Solfege From: "David Guion" Four reasons: 1))The numbers have meaning outside a musical context, while the syllables are unambiguously musical. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that David. Doh's a doe, a female deer. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:08:08 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur Subject: Mahler 3 and shameless plug Hi all, Speaking of Mahler 3... There will be four performances of the work in southern Ontario next week for those that are interested. Orchestra London Canada has combined forces with the Kitchener-Waterloo Symphony Orchestra to perform the work on March 10 and 11 in London at Centennial Hall and March 12 and 13 in Kitchener at the Centre in the Square. The low brass section will be: Dave Pell, Jay Castello, Doug Lavell, Peter Collins and Jane Manness on tuba. We have had one rehearsal already and it sounds fabulous from where I am sitting. I am sure it will not disappoint anyone. Dave sounds great on the solos, he is a fantastic musician and is very excited about the opportunity to play the piece. (we all are!) Contact me if you want more information. Come and say hello after the concert. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra Chris Dearth wrote: > > >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:16:29 -0500 > >From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > >Subject: New Mahler 3 Recording > > >Dear Listers, > > OK, here it is---a brand spanking new recording of Mahler 3, on the > >Telarc label with the New Philharmonia Orchestra. It still might even be on > >sale for $16.99. I have never heard of Brian Fulcher, the principal > >trombone, but I can tell you this much, this is the recording that I plan > >to > >use to really study this piece. Brian appears to be one of those trombone > >players in the world who is in the unsung hero class, and the way that he > >plays the solo is absolutely magnificent. The conductor is Benjamin Zander, > >and the playing of the entire orchestra is absolutely magnificent. I just > >listened to the first movement, and IT IS A KEEPER. If any of our friends > >from the UK can tell us more about Brian Fulcher, I for 1 would be very > >interested in knowing more about him. > > >Paul Kemp > >Chattanooga Symphony > > While we're talking about new recordings of Mahler 3, I recently picked the > Vienna Philharmonic with Boulez doing this work on the Deutsche Grammophon > label. Ian Bousfield had joined Vienna by this point and is the one playing > the solos. The overall recording is MAGNIFICENT!! Boulez's tempos tend to > be on the slow side (when ARE his tempos not on the slow side IMHO), but > what the band does with the music at the tempo is wonderful. Ian's playing > is very good. If you are looking for an alternative to the NY/Bernstein > recording, this is VERY worthy. Great orchestra, Great trombone player, > nuff said. > > Chris Dearth > Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony > 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:32:54 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Solfege David, > Why not sing ãone, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eightä? > >Those are the names they will need to know later on, if they do study >music. >Four reasons: 1))The numbers have meaning outside a musical context, while >the syllables are unambiguously musical. Yes, but anyone who is going to seriously study music will need to learn the numbers, sooner or later. And unlike economics, where common words are given specific meanings, a confusion I have yet to recover from, the numbers in music mean exactly the same as what the numbers mean in the vernacular. 2) Mi-fa and ti-do are specifically half steps (while 3-4 and 7-8 are not) and other adjacent syllables are specifically whole steps. All the syllables refer to the relationship of one pitch to another within the context of the scale. Even singing note names will accomplish that. Excuse me, if mi-fa is a half step, then 3-4 is going to be a half-step, as well. They refer to the same two notes. Anyone who can remember that mi-fa is a half-step can also remember that 3-4 is a half-step. 3) The syllables are the same pattern of whole steps and half steps regardless of mode. C is do whether it is in C major or A minor; C has to be 1 in C major and 3 in A minor. OOH, youâre talking about non-moveable solfege. Well, ãCä already has a name. Itâs ãCä. Giving it another name will only create confusion. 4) 1 and 8 are different octaves of the same note. Why use 8 at all? Because 7 up to 1 is counterintuitive. But then if you sing past the tonic, what's higher than 8? 9? 2? David, wake up. Yes the next number is 9. And donât forget 11 and 13. Perhaps I should make myself clear, here. Iâve got an AA in music composition. Granted itâs nothing compared with lots of people on this list, but what it means is that Iâve taken the study of music beyond the point where do-re-me· fails. If I had used do-re-me to learn ear training, Iâd have only had to relearn all my terminology for talking about jazz of for doing harmony assignments. So teaching solfege is teaching something that will have to be relearned by anyone who studies music past high school. Teaching solfege actually keeps students from understanding jazz chords, until they relearn music, as one, two, three· I can go on, but I wonât bother. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ö 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:57:53 -0800 From: Matthew Stoecker Subject: Re: Solfege When I was in college, we were required to take two semesters of ear = training and sight singing. My first semester, we were allowed to sight = sing using whichever system we preferred. I chose numbers, because I had = a good theory background and it made the most sense to me. Then second = semester comes along and the professor insists that everyone sight sing = in fixed Do. I still to this day do not understand what he was trying to = accomplish. Fixed Do provides absolutely no connection to the tonality = of the music. I suppose it might be useful for atonal sight singing, but = that was third semester I only knew a handful of people who weren't = theory majors who took it. I think people should be encouraged to use = whatever works best for them, be it numbers, fixed do, movable do, = whatever, because isn't the whole point to increase the connection = between the ear and the brain? Matt Stoecker ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Daniel Pliskin=20 To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Solfege David, > Why not sing "one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight"? > >Those are the names they will need to know later on, if they do = study >music. >Four reasons: 1))The numbers have meaning outside a musical context, = while >the syllables are unambiguously musical. Yes, but anyone who is going to seriously study music will need to = learn the numbers, sooner or later. And unlike economics, where common words = are given specific meanings, a confusion I have yet to recover from, the = numbers in music mean exactly the same as what the numbers mean in the = vernacular. 2) Mi-fa and ti-do are specifically half steps (while 3-4 and 7-8 are = not) and other adjacent syllables are specifically whole steps. All the = syllables refer to the relationship of one pitch to another within the context = of the scale. Even singing note names will accomplish that. Excuse me, if mi-fa is a half step, then 3-4 is going to be a = half-step, as well. They refer to the same two notes. Anyone who can remember that = mi-fa is a half-step can also remember that 3-4 is a half-step. 3) The syllables are the same pattern of whole steps and half steps regardless of mode. C is do whether it is in C major or A minor; C has = to be 1 in C major and 3 in A minor. OOH, you're talking about non-moveable solfege. Well, "C" already has = a name. It's "C". Giving it another name will only create confusion. 4) 1 and 8 are different octaves of the same note. Why use 8 at all? = Because 7 up to 1 is counterintuitive. But then if you sing past the tonic, = what's higher than 8? 9? 2? David, wake up. Yes the next number is 9. And don't forget 11 and = 13. Perhaps I should make myself clear, here. I've got an AA in music composition. Granted it's nothing compared with lots of people on = this list, but what it means is that I've taken the study of music beyond = the point where do-re-me. fails. If I had used do-re-me to learn ear = training, I'd have only had to relearn all my terminology for talking about jazz = of for doing harmony assignments. So teaching solfege is teaching = something that will have to be relearned by anyone who studies music past high = school. Teaching solfege actually keeps students from understanding jazz = chords, until they relearn music, as one, two, three. I can go on, but I won't bother. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - 4 plans to choose = from! = http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:03:56 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant Thanks for the suggestion, Erin. I will give Reka a try. I had not used it because it sounded a lot like SoM and I have a pretty dim view f that stuff. Every SoM user I know raves on and on about the stuff, all the while they are applying the big bottle for the third time in a 60 minute session. It's like, "Dude, do you realize you spend more time talking about SoM and applying the stuff than you do playing the trombone?" It also accumulates a level of crud that is hard to remove. SoM is like heroin. At first it is great (I'm told), but as time passes, you have to use more and more of it as the "high" steadily declines. If Reka is different, I look forward to that. One other thing about SoM, it makes a lot of slides fast at first. But it doesn't make them "buttery", if that makes any sense. In my experience, a scratchy slide will become more so with SoM. Personally I like the feel of a "buttery"" slide. To me, it makes the difference between what feels like a professional horn and a student horn. I've never felt a 3B slide that felt "professional" to me. The Meguiar's finally made the 3B feel professional. OK, I admit it. I'm off my rocker. :) Craig At 07:29 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote: >Hi Craig, I' m very pleased that you have found replacements for Pledge. >Its too much of a shame that you should to have jump thru so many >hoops and >go thru so many steps (7 or 8) with Meguires or Armor All and >trombotine and >water mist to get a slick slide on any horn you may own. I zeroed in on >you're mention of a 3B slide as I also am a 3 B fan and player.. I am old >enough (75)to have tried everything known to mankind to make for a good >slide. I was on SOM for about 4-5 years and thot' I had arrived, but then >last December I decided to try a bottle of "Reka Superslide". My God, >this >stuff is SO much above the other stuff that I can 't hide my >enthusiasm (and >I'm not on their payroll).!!! I do not carry water with me anymore as it >only dilutes...don't need it. One application usually lasts me thru about >3-4 gigs. When it begins to lose that buttery/cushioned feeling I simply >wipe with my bare hand skin up and down the slide and simply reapply >a drop >or so to the inners and then work it in smoothly and then were off and >running. Of course, if you change over to this Reka you really should >clean >out all that other gummy goop and really give it a chance. It sure works >great for me.....would like to hear from you if you care to try it! > > Emil > Orth, >Beale St Jazz Band, Memphis >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Craig Parmerlee" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:57 PM >Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant > > > > At 10:42 PM 3/1/2004, JFBermann@AOL.COM wrote: > > >I found a terrific replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant. > > >It doesn't have that lemon smell, but is non-flammable, non-toxic, > > >non-corrosive, and odorless. Works fantastic on the slide and > > >for cleaning lacquered surfaces. And it comes in a pump spray > > >plastic bottle. > > > > As long as we're talking about it, there is a brand new product just > > coming onto the shelves right now. It is Meguiar's "nxt [sic] > > generation TECH PROTECTANT". It comes in a purple spray bottle, like > > the Armor All. This is a finish polish with lots of micro polymers > > (i.e. improved Teflon). Because these products are made to be safe on > > clear coat, they should be completely safe on the slides. Clear coat > > is a lot softer than brass. I have a King 3B slide that is good, but > > never has been great no matter what I do. Alignment seems to be > > perfect, but it just gets sluggish. Here's my procedure: > > > > 1) Clean outers thoroughly with Wrights. Wash with soap and swap > > completely clean and dry with cheesecloth. > > > > 2) Wipe the inners clean, then clean again with alcohol. > > > > 3) Assemble the slide. Dribble a generous amount of Meguiars down the > > tubes. It comes out like a runny gel. Work the Meguiars thoroughly > > into both tubes. Wipe the inners and work it some more. Keep wiping > > the inners until you have smoothed out and removed the excess > Meguiar's. > > > > 4) Remove the inner slide and wipe clean. Clean again with > > alcohol. Leave the outer alone for 15 minutes to let the remaining > > Meguair's bond to the tubes. > > > > 5) Swap the outers thoroughly with clean cheesecloth until the cloth > > comes out clean. > > > > 6) Apply a microscopically thin layer of Trombotine (Superslick or cold > > creme). The purpose is to make water bead, not to provide lubrication. > > > > 7) Assemble the slide, then give each tube a shot of Armor All > > Protectant (silicone solution). > > > > 8) Work the slide. If it isn't really fast, swab the outers again, > > clean the inners and reapply Trombotine and Armor All. > > > > For the first time ever on this slide, step 8 was not necessary. The > > slide is as fast as I have ever seen it. Moreover, with the Meguiar's, > > it feels more "buttery", no sense of scratching at all. > > > > A lot of slides work great without any special attention, but this King > > one has always been borderline good. If you have a slide like this, > > try it. Maybe it will work for you. > > > > Now on to my next project: turning a Thrush glass pack muffler into a > > cimbasso mute. (I wonder if I'm spending too much time at the auto > > parts store.) > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:01:25 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Solfege From: "Daniel Pliskin" Teaching solfege actually keeps students from understanding jazz chords, until they relearn music, as one, two, three. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not wishing to start a war here, but I tend to agree with everything Dan has offered. I don't know if Solfege has any advantages over intervals, but I'm certain that my training hasn't suffered for lack of fluency in the former system of pitch recognition. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:06:56 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Re: Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant Craig, Maybe you should try this: http://www.tasteyoulove.com/products.asp?section=products/spray Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax (520) 991-7056 cel sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Craig Parmerlee Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:04 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant Thanks for the suggestion, Erin. I will give Reka a try. I had not used it because it sounded a lot like SoM and I have a pretty dim view f that stuff. Every SoM user I know raves on and on about the stuff, all the while they are applying the big bottle for the third time in a 60 minute session. It's like, "Dude, do you realize you spend more time talking about SoM and applying the stuff than you do playing the trombone?" It also accumulates a level of crud that is hard to remove. SoM is like heroin. At first it is great (I'm told), but as time passes, you have to use more and more of it as the "high" steadily declines. If Reka is different, I look forward to that. One other thing about SoM, it makes a lot of slides fast at first. But it doesn't make them "buttery", if that makes any sense. In my experience, a scratchy slide will become more so with SoM. Personally I like the feel of a "buttery"" slide. To me, it makes the difference between what feels like a professional horn and a student horn. I've never felt a 3B slide that felt "professional" to me. The Meguiar's finally made the 3B feel professional. OK, I admit it. I'm off my rocker. :) Craig At 07:29 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote: >Hi Craig, I' m very pleased that you have found replacements for Pledge. >Its too much of a shame that you should to have jump thru so many >hoops and >go thru so many steps (7 or 8) with Meguires or Armor All and >trombotine and >water mist to get a slick slide on any horn you may own. I zeroed in on >you're mention of a 3B slide as I also am a 3 B fan and player.. I am old >enough (75)to have tried everything known to mankind to make for a good >slide. I was on SOM for about 4-5 years and thot' I had arrived, but then >last December I decided to try a bottle of "Reka Superslide". My God, >this >stuff is SO much above the other stuff that I can 't hide my >enthusiasm (and >I'm not on their payroll).!!! I do not carry water with me anymore as it >only dilutes...don't need it. One application usually lasts me thru about >3-4 gigs. When it begins to lose that buttery/cushioned feeling I simply >wipe with my bare hand skin up and down the slide and simply reapply >a drop >or so to the inners and then work it in smoothly and then were off and >running. Of course, if you change over to this Reka you really should >clean >out all that other gummy goop and really give it a chance. It sure works >great for me.....would like to hear from you if you care to try it! > > Emil > Orth, >Beale St Jazz Band, Memphis >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Craig Parmerlee" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:57 PM >Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant > > > > At 10:42 PM 3/1/2004, JFBermann@AOL.COM wrote: > > >I found a terrific replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant. > > >It doesn't have that lemon smell, but is non-flammable, non-toxic, > > >non-corrosive, and odorless. Works fantastic on the slide and > > >for cleaning lacquered surfaces. And it comes in a pump spray > > >plastic bottle. > > > > As long as we're talking about it, there is a brand new product just > > coming onto the shelves right now. It is Meguiar's "nxt [sic] > > generation TECH PROTECTANT". It comes in a purple spray bottle, like > > the Armor All. This is a finish polish with lots of micro polymers > > (i.e. improved Teflon). Because these products are made to be safe on > > clear coat, they should be completely safe on the slides. Clear coat > > is a lot softer than brass. I have a King 3B slide that is good, but > > never has been great no matter what I do. Alignment seems to be > > perfect, but it just gets sluggish. Here's my procedure: > > > > 1) Clean outers thoroughly with Wrights. Wash with soap and swap > > completely clean and dry with cheesecloth. > > > > 2) Wipe the inners clean, then clean again with alcohol. > > > > 3) Assemble the slide. Dribble a generous amount of Meguiars down the > > tubes. It comes out like a runny gel. Work the Meguiars thoroughly > > into both tubes. Wipe the inners and work it some more. Keep wiping > > the inners until you have smoothed out and removed the excess > Meguiar's. > > > > 4) Remove the inner slide and wipe clean. Clean again with > > alcohol. Leave the outer alone for 15 minutes to let the remaining > > Meguair's bond to the tubes. > > > > 5) Swap the outers thoroughly with clean cheesecloth until the cloth > > comes out clean. > > > > 6) Apply a microscopically thin layer of Trombotine (Superslick or cold > > creme). The purpose is to make water bead, not to provide lubrication. > > > > 7) Assemble the slide, then give each tube a shot of Armor All > > Protectant (silicone solution). > > > > 8) Work the slide. If it isn't really fast, swab the outers again, > > clean the inners and reapply Trombotine and Armor All. > > > > For the first time ever on this slide, step 8 was not necessary. The > > slide is as fast as I have ever seen it. Moreover, with the Meguiar's, > > it feels more "buttery", no sense of scratching at all. > > > > A lot of slides work great without any special attention, but this King > > one has always been borderline good. If you have a slide like this, > > try it. Maybe it will work for you. > > > > Now on to my next project: turning a Thrush glass pack muffler into a > > cimbasso mute. (I wonder if I'm spending too much time at the auto > > parts store.) > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:15:31 -0500 From: walter barrett Subject: Re: Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant On 3/5/04 2:03 PM, Craig Parmerlee smote the keyboard with... > > OK, I admit it. I'm off my rocker. :) > Craig Buying a car muffler to make a cimbasso mute would be a pretty good indicator, too! ;-) Walter Barrett "What exactly is wrong with inmates running the asylum? It seems to me they're in the ideal position to know what's needed." -George Carlin Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:30:11 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: Conn 78H From: "James Scott" > I have an old 78H that I bought on ebay (from the '30s). Ebay from the 30's? Man, that must make you one of the very first users. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:49:48 -0800 From: Eric Nicklas Subject: Trombone-L Is Closing Trombone-L Members, This message is to officially announce that Trombone-L will be permanently shut down on March 31, 2004. I will be resigning my listownership and the list will be shut down at that time. I started the list in January of 1994 as an single full-time graduate student. I now have a beautiful wife, two spectacular children and work full-time. I no longer have the time necessary to keep the list running as smoothly as it should be. As of today, trombone-l does not have a new home. It is my most sincere hope that someone will allow Trombone-L to continue by offering to host and manage trombone-l. Please contact me if you are interested in hosting trombone-l. I will be glad to assist in making the transition to a new host as seamless as possible. Should a volunteer to host the list come forward before March 31, 2004, the new list information will be sent to all current subscribers of Trombone-L. I would like to thank the staff at the University of Missouri for their spectacular support of the technical aspects of maintaining the list for all these years. They have done a remarkable job in keeping the list operational. I wish I could thank all the individuals who regularly contributed to the list. Your willingness to share your thoughts, experiences, and humor has touched an audience worldwide. Thank you very much for ten great years! Eric Nicklas Listowner Trombone-L eric@ericnicklas.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:52:18 -0800 From: Greg Bergantz Subject: Re: Solfege Solfeggio is simply *one* method used to teach ear training. I believe it's safe to say that Movable Do is the most popular. It's used in music schools internationally. Including Berklee. I recently came across a very well written 3-part article written by Gunharth Randolf: http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/44 http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/67 http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/116 Whether you personally find Solfeggio effective or not, it *is* an effective technique for many. I'm sure you know that learners are not all the same. Many learners require many different approaches to teaching. A *good* teacher strives to provide whatever tools and resources available to the learner. If a teacher limits tools and resources only to those that were effective with the teacher, the success of learners suffer. Guys, once you've stated that you don't care for one ear training method and that you get more from another, terrific. That's helpful. But constant beating up on a method that others find effective? What's the point? If it works for you, use it. If not, find something that does. BTW: Mi-Fa is a 1/2 step. Me-Fa (e.g., minor key) is a whole step. How do you handle that with 3-4? Just curious. Greg On Friday, March 5, 2004, at 10:57 AM, Matthew Stoecker wrote: > So teaching solfege is teaching something > that will have to be relearned by anyone who studies music past high > school. > Teaching solfege actually keeps students from understanding jazz > chords, > until they relearn music, as one, two, three. > > I can go on, but I won't bother. > > DanP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:13:11 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant At 02:06 PM 3/5/2004, Steve Gamble wrote: >Craig, > >Maybe you should try this: >http://www.tasteyoulove.com/products.asp?section=products/spray mmmmmm. Buttery. Why do I have this urge to eat popcorn every time I play my horn? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:08:50 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing I am sorry to hear this. I wish I had the resources to host this list...but I do not. I am glad your life is working so well, Eric. Congratulations. All things pass, and all things remain the same. I extend an open invitation to anyone who wishes to be involved in a discussion system that is trying to be as good as the trombone list was at its peak to come take a look at the forum on my website, The Open Horn. For a statement of its aims and purposes, go to and check it out. Or just log on () and read through the last 1 1/2 year's worth of discussion. I hope to see some of you there. It's been an interesting ride here. Literally changed my life. Later... Sam Burtis >Trombone-L Members, > >This message is to officially announce that Trombone-L will be >permanently shut down on March 31, 2004. I will be resigning my >listownership and the list will be shut down at that time. > >I started the list in January of 1994 as an single full-time >graduate student. I now have a beautiful wife, two spectacular >children and work full-time. I no longer have the time necessary to >keep the list running as smoothly as it should be. > >As of today, trombone-l does not have a new home. It is my most >sincere hope that someone will allow Trombone-L to continue by >offering to host and manage trombone-l. Please contact me if you >are interested in hosting trombone-l. I will be glad to assist in >making the transition to a new host as seamless as possible. > >Should a volunteer to host the list come forward before March 31, >2004, the new list information will be sent to all current >subscribers of Trombone-L. > >I would like to thank the staff at the University of Missouri for >their spectacular support of the technical aspects of maintaining >the list for all these years. They have done a remarkable job in >keeping the list operational. > >I wish I could thank all the individuals who regularly >contributed to the list. Your willingness to share your thoughts, >experiences, and humor has touched an audience worldwide. > >Thank you very much for ten great years! > >Eric Nicklas >Listowner Trombone-L >eric@ericnicklas.com -- Sam Burtis is a NYC freelance trombonist and composer, the author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC. Visit us on the web at and/or , email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. The actual store in NYC is by appointment only. PLEASE VISIT THE OPEN HORN,A WEB FORUM Lots of interesting discussions going on every day. An introduction to the site is available at ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:15:11 -0800 From: Chris Tune Subject: Re: Solfege I always figured that the main advantage of solfege was the easily sung nature of the syllable: They are all single syllables, starting with a consonant and ending in a vowel. Since "one" and "seven" don't fit that setup it makes it hard to enunciate the words during a quick passage of music. I've done a little of both, but really the ear training happens mostly inside the head by hearing distinctly in the mind. . . .just like Beethoven must have done. . . This situation with the solfege syllables is a little bit like French. The words are set up so that they flow very quickly (unfortunatley, the numbers also have similar problems regarding quick singing. . .quatre and cinq for four and five are a little awkward if pronounced distinctly. . .). English and German aren't like that and therefore the spoken rate of words is slower. The part about the brain learning better or something like that always seemed so indistinct and murky to me. Maybe it's my murky brain. . . Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Solfege > From: "Daniel Pliskin" > > Teaching solfege actually keeps students from understanding jazz chords, > until they relearn music, as one, two, three. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Not wishing to start a war here, but I tend to agree with everything Dan has > offered. I don't know if Solfege has any advantages over intervals, but I'm > certain that my training hasn't suffered for lack of fluency in the former > system of pitch recognition. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:42:07 -0500 From: Eric Edwards Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing Holly S-O-M Batman!! I've got the same horrible feeling of loss as when I lost my job last year!!!! Eric, I for one cannot thank you enough for this list. I'm sure everyone else is feeling the same. Congratulations on your personal life. Best of luck in your future endeavors!! Thanks again! Eric > From: Eric Nicklas > Date: 2004/03/05 Fri PM 03:49:48 EST > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Trombone-L Is Closing > > Trombone-L Members, > > This message is to officially announce that Trombone-L will be permanently shut down on March 31, 2004. I will be resigning my listownership and the list will be shut down at that time. > > I started the list in January of 1994 as an single full-time graduate student. I now have a beautiful wife, two spectacular children and work full-time. I no longer have the time necessary to keep the list running as smoothly as it should be. > > As of today, trombone-l does not have a new home. It is my most sincere hope that someone will allow Trombone-L to continue by offering to host and manage trombone-l. Please contact me if you are interested in hosting trombone-l. I will be glad to assist in making the transition to a new host as seamless as possible. > > Should a volunteer to host the list come forward before March 31, 2004, the new list information will be sent to all current subscribers of Trombone-L. > > I would like to thank the staff at the University of Missouri for their spectacular support of the technical aspects of maintaining the list for all these years. They have done a remarkable job in keeping the list operational. > > I wish I could thank all the individuals who regularly > contributed to the list. Your willingness to share your thoughts, experiences, and humor has touched an audience worldwide. > > Thank you very much for ten great years! > > Eric Nicklas > Listowner Trombone-L > eric@ericnicklas.com > Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has faded" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:52:35 EST From: Matmutt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing Hey Sam; So how come I've tried to sign onto your "forum" for the last four days, and been refused entry? No response from " contact Sam" either. Larry Priori, member in good standing of this list since 1997 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:55:20 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing I am sure another solution can be reached to keep the list alive. Stay tuned. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric Nicklas Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 2:50 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Trombone-L Is Closing Trombone-L Members, This message is to officially announce that Trombone-L will be permanently shut down on March 31, 2004. I will be resigning my listownership and the list will be shut down at that time. I started the list in January of 1994 as an single full-time graduate student. I now have a beautiful wife, two spectacular children and work full-time. I no longer have the time necessary to keep the list running as smoothly as it should be. As of today, trombone-l does not have a new home. It is my most sincere hope that someone will allow Trombone-L to continue by offering to host and manage trombone-l. Please contact me if you are interested in hosting trombone-l. I will be glad to assist in making the transition to a new host as seamless as possible. Should a volunteer to host the list come forward before March 31, 2004, the new list information will be sent to all current subscribers of Trombone-L. I would like to thank the staff at the University of Missouri for their spectacular support of the technical aspects of maintaining the list for all these years. They have done a remarkable job in keeping the list operational. I wish I could thank all the individuals who regularly contributed to the list. Your willingness to share your thoughts, experiences, and humor has touched an audience worldwide. Thank you very much for ten great years! Eric Nicklas Listowner Trombone-L eric@ericnicklas.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:48:39 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Replacement for Pledge, Armor All Protectant > > OK, I admit it. I'm off my rocker. :) > > Craig >Buying a car muffler to make a cimbasso mute would be a pretty good >indicator, too! OK, Walter, youâre on. Iâve certainly had enough of solfege. When I read: >I think people should be encouraged to use whatever works best for them, be >it numbers, fixed do, movable do, whatever, because isn't the whole point >to increase the connection between the ear and the brain? , I could only believe that here was a peacemaker and itâs well known that Iâm a peacemonger. But then, what would we argue about? And Walter has come up with something worth taking a stand about. Iâm ready and willing to jump right in. I believe that the use of a car muffler, especially one of those cherry-red glass-packs would be a great looking mute for anyone who wanted to attract a little attention. And certainly performers need to attract a little attention. In that regard, it wouldnât even matter if the muffler did anything, as long as it was recognizable as a muffler. And although it would probably be quite heavy, it still might be less painful than what I used to do on stage, in the Î60s and Î70s. I used to run across the stage and slide on my knees, over to my guitar amplifier. There Iâd prey to the gods of feedback. As far as I know, nobody pondered if I was sane. And just being able to do that meant that I was on significantly lower doses of drugs than those in the audience. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:40:14 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing A sad day in trombone-ville. As Sam said, this list "Literally changed my life." I cannot minimize the profound effect this list has had on my abilities and attitude on the trombone. Somehow Thank you doesn't cut it. But thank you it will have to be. I certainly hope the Trombone-L can continue in some way. In the meantime. as Sam mentioned, he has a website worth checking out. I also strongly recommend the On-line Trombone Journal (OTJ). I know many of you know of it, but for those less familiar, or for those gone for a while, check out the OTJ forum at: http://forum.trombone.org/index.php Actually, the OTJ has more to offer than just a great Forum as you can see at: http://www.trombone.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:45:40 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Steve Beck wrote: > A sad day in trombone-ville. > > I certainly hope the Trombone-L can continue in some way. I see you end in an "EDU." You might consider adopting the list. I adopted Dressage-L years ago when its owner left academe (and am the official co-owner of a couple of other lists). IU, for example, is quite open to list hosting and the list admin people here are helpful. For the most part I don't bother them, and vice-versa. Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:54:43 -0600 From: Marco Guerrero Subject: New Mexico State at CBDNA Hey for all you in the Ft. Worth area the New Mexico State University Symphonic Winds Ensemble will be performing at TCU this coming week (Shamless plug) come out and hear a excellent lowbrass section. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:14:38 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science wrote: >On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Steve Beck wrote: > > > >>A sad day in trombone-ville. >> >>I certainly hope the Trombone-L can continue in some way. >> >> > >I see you end in an "EDU." You might consider adopting the list. > > > Or you, Carole. With all your other lists, what's one more? Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:20:38 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: New Mexico State at CBDNA Marco Guerrero wrote: >Hey for all you in the Ft. Worth area the New Mexico State University >Symphonic Winds Ensemble will be performing at TCU this coming >week (Shamless plug) come out and hear a excellent lowbrass >section. > > > Marco, I received this message from Dr. Kaplan, which actually tells the day, what time, and where the band plays: >If you have the time and desire, our Wind ensemble has won the right to >perform at the CBDNA (annual meetings of "big dog" college band directors) >on Thursday March 11 at 1:30 in Ed Landreth Hall at TCU. Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:53:38 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing Steve Beck wrote: >A sad day in trombone-ville. > >I also strongly recommend the On-line Trombone Journal (OTJ). >Actually, the OTJ has more to offer than just a great Forum ... > I have tried to check out the OTJ Forum, and hate the format of it. I hope someone will carry on the Tbn-l, PLEASE! Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:03:28 -0500 From: Jayson Rowe Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing I have sent an email to Eric to see what is involved. I'm an IT professional with a lot of resources at my fingertips. I will help keep it going if I can :) Jayson -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric & Candice Swanson Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:54 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone-L Is Closing Steve Beck wrote: >A sad day in trombone-ville. > >I also strongly recommend the On-line Trombone Journal (OTJ). >Actually, the OTJ has more to offer than just a great Forum ... > I have tried to check out the OTJ Forum, and hate the format of it. I hope someone will carry on the Tbn-l, PLEASE! Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:10:37 -0500 From: DSlide13@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing Eric, You've fought the good fight for some time, and no doubt, you've been wrestling with this decision for some time. I'm glad that you've chosen your family's happiness over the time you've spent managing this list. Your diligent effort has given a residence to thousands of conversations and has sparked hundreds of life long friendships between contributors to this forum. Thank you for your imagination and hard word over the years. We all owe you a huge "thank you". Thank you, DG/David Gibson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:02:45 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone-L Is Closing >Hey Sam; > So how come I've tried to sign onto your "forum" for the last >four days, and been refused entry? No response from "contact Sam" >either. > > Larry Priori, member in good standing of this list since 1997 I don't know, Larry. I'll ask my webmaster. About 6 people have successfully signed on in the last week, and as far as I can recall I have never before heard from someone who was having trouble subscribing. Got no emails from you either. I'll get back to you... Sam -- Sam Burtis is a NYC freelance trombonist and composer, the author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC. Visit us on the web at and/or , email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. The actual store in NYC is by appointment only. PLEASE VISIT THE OPEN HORN,A WEB FORUM Lots of interesting discussions going on every day. An introduction to the site is available at ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:56:40 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing At 07:53 PM 3/5/2004, Eric & Candice Swanson wrote: >Steve Beck wrote: > >>A sad day in trombone-ville. >> >>I also strongly recommend the On-line Trombone Journal (OTJ). >>Actually, the OTJ has more to offer than just a great Forum ... > >I have tried to check out the OTJ Forum, and hate the format of it. I >hope someone will carry on the Tbn-l, PLEASE! Well, there is always Yahoo eGroups. That is free and doesn't require much administration. It would maintain the email list orientation, but comes with lots of other features (data bases, file storage, calenders, polls, etc). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:25:15 -0500 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing Craig> Well, there is always Yahoo eGroups. That is free and doesn't require Craig> much administration. It would maintain the email list orientation, Craig> but comes with lots of other features (data bases, file storage, Craig> calenders, polls, etc). Yeah, one of the horn-lists runs on that, and I can't recall them having difficulties with it. --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:00:29 -0800 From: The Millars Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing > Well, there is always Yahoo eGroups. Ugh. Although there are alleged privacy settlings, I was inundated with a veritable mountain of spam beginning the instant I first joined a Yahoo group. Never again........ Michael Millar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:48:40 -0800 From: Price Taylor Subject: Re: Trombone-L Is Closing Also comes with ads that I find totally annoying. -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of The Millars Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:00 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone-L Is Closing > Well, there is always Yahoo eGroups. Ugh. Although there are alleged privacy settlings, I was inundated with a veritable mountain of spam beginning the instant I first joined a Yahoo group. Never again........ Michael Millar ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 4 Mar 2004 to 5 Mar 2004 (#2004-66) **************************************************************