Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 28 Feb 2004 to 29 Feb 2004 (#2004-61) Date: Monday, March 1, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 20 messages totalling 816 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Reka Super Slide (4) 2. The List, the List Monitor, and Some History 3. Future of the Trombone-L (2) 4. OTJ Reviews Editor 5. Solfege (5) 6. re-subscribing (value/future of list) 7. Resubscribing 8. Reka superslide... (2) 9. re-subscribing 10. NYC Hora Decima brass ensemble web site 11. Greg Harper @ Mississippi State ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:28:45 -0800 From: jimandcat@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: Reka Super Slide Re: Reka Super Slide Where can you buy it? Especially mail order. Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:11:41 -0800 From: jimandcat@JUNO.COM Subject: The List, the List Monitor, and Some History Good post Chris, thanks for all you have done. Ever since I first tried to subscribe and was turned down because I used free e mail (I think my friend Alan Charlesworth put in a good word for me and got me subscribed), I have been baffled by how weird some people can get about posting thoughts about trombone playing and trombone parts. . The guys who wrote long-winded philosophical dissertations were kind of interesting, but a little boring at the same time. But you had to love the passion they had for what they were saying. Being in the business a long time, it is not uncommon for me to see and hear fine musicians become very egostistical and opinionated. But if you stay calm and listen through the bullshit, you often find very interesting and thought provoking insights. Not to mention learning a lot when they just stick to talking about the craft. The troll thing was the weirdest. Talk about losers in life. To have to resort to maligning and picking on a bunch of guys that sit around trying to figure out how to buzz their lips effectively through telescoping tubing is the definition of someone very unhappy with where their life has gone. That is the kind way of describing a lunatic. But all that is such a small part of this community. I get the digest, every morning after I get up, exercise, and get my day ready. I sit down with my breakfast and read the trombone L. It used to be the paper, then the Smithsonian (the paper is always the same boring stuff--the world is going to hell and politicians pretend to know how to fix it). But for the past 6 years I delight in reading the posts of many trombonists on this planet. It is different than a forum BB--no particular topic, just folks talking and joking about the world of trombone. I am so sorry we lost the beatnik DJ, such a different cat. Likewise, the always articulate, inspiring Doug Yeo. I don't always agree with sabutin, but when he talks about trombones, I sit up and listen. The real delights are Adrian, Wayne, Jim Bermann (how many horns and pieces of horns do you have Jim?), Paul Kemp, Paul Hill (we got to get him back), Tom Izzo and others. People I have never met who have corresponded with me by e mail (Paul Kemp called me out the blue one night when I posted something and we talked for an hour, even sent me a CDR of a piece of Dave Stenemeyer, a real good trombone "church meetin' ", huh, Paul :-) ) Much more than a Bulletin Board of topics, we are a community of trombonists. Not a magazine, but postcards sent electronically every day--to read and write back if we want. We are visiting each other daily through the e mail, from all parts of the planet. Truly amazing. We don't like the visitor, we don't have to be rude, slam the door, say nasty things, we just touch the delete button. A lot easier than face to face confrontation. I hope we can all just remember we are all different, some of us are screwed up and want someone to just listen, some of us are bursting with knowledge we want to share, some of us don't care a wit about the political or philosophical bents of people (that's me), we just want to talk about the trombone and trombone music because it is our passion in life. So lighten up everybody, and keep posting your trombone tidbits and questions. Hey, which kid on the playground is the trombonist's kid? The one who is afraid of the slide and doesn't know how to swing. Lets laugh at and with each other as we talk about tromboning. It beats the alternative. Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:00:28 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Future of the Trombone-L This is my 2 cents on the resubscribing thread. I am also a long time subscriber - and before that a peruser of the List archives. Like many here, I received a lifetime of "private" lessons from this list, and owe much of my modest abilities to following the advice of masters. I am still humbled that people like Doug Yeo, Gordon Cherry, Wayne Dyess, etc. etc., would take the time to give complete strangers the benefits of years and years of collective wisdom. The practice routines, the equipment suggestions, the music appreciation lessons, the lists goes on and on. Certainly, after many years, much of the value of this is list becomes a repeated message. That would be true of any format. I stay here out of loyalty more than the hopes of gleaning new information. In addition, I reluctantly agree that there are technology issues with this list as well. Forums such as the On-line Trombone Journal (OTJ) have formats more conducive to picking and choosing your topics. However, I take exception of those who say this list is heavy in censorship. (This is particularly in the case of one who this list went to great lengths to protect from a troll several years ago.) I think this list is guilty, not of censorship, but of trying to keep people on target. That target, for those who easily forget is TROMBONE. Chris, I personally thank you for the time and effort that you have put into this effort. Yes, Eric deserves a lot of credit. However, his educational pursuits limited his time and you stepped up and made this list keep going. -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:09:11 -0600 From: Richard Human Subject: OTJ Reviews Editor Hi All, I am currently seeking a Reviews Editor for the OTJ Library. It doesn't pay, but you do get to work on the site, a trombone.org email address, and you'll get to hear and see some good music along the way. This is an excellent way for a graduate student or young teacher/performer to make contacts in the trombone world and stay up on what's "out there." Requirements: 1. Knowledge of HTML, FTP and a commitment to work with me on the OTJ redesign. (very minimal HTML required - all publishing is forms-based) 2. Interpersonal skills necessary to recruit and manage a profossional collection of reviewers, and to maintain a review turn-around time of 4 weeks, maximum. 3. The ability to scan CD covers and produce web-compatible graphics. 4. A commitment to soliciting performers and publishers to submit items for review in the OTJ. 5. The desire to assist the OTJ in continuing to be the premiere location for information and ideas for trombonists on the Internet. Qualifications: 1. Play the trombone. 2. Have a degree in music (education or performance). 3. Have a professional "get-it-done" attitude. Closing date: I'd like to have someone in the position at the beginning of April. Please send me a brief, one-page, resume and three profesisonal references (including telephone numbers and emails) via email to: richard@trombone.org. Thank you. Richard Human, Jr. Publisher ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- Dr. Richard Human, Jr, Assistant Professor of Music Mississippi State University http://www.msstate.edu/dept/musiced/ Email: richard@trombone.org Office Phone: (662) 325-8021 Founder and Webmaster Online Trombone Journal "A web site for Trombonists" http://www.trombone.org/ "The more you know, the less you understand." --Tao Te Ching ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:08:31 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Reka Super Slide > >I just bought and tried a bottle of Reka Super Slide. It worked very well >on >my Bach 42 slide. As well as S-O-M or Rapid Comfort. It does seem to last a >little longer. However, the stuff didn't work worth a damn on my Shires >slide. It gummed it up something terrible. "Gunned it up" sounds like you mixed different slide lubes. >I >would think that refrigeration would make the Reka stuff congeal. I don't >think that temperature extremes improve slide lubs, and may even make them >worse. Just some of my observations. The question about refrigerating Reka makes sense for those who live in colder climates. Whether they like it or not, their slide lube gets "refrigerated" when they travel. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ö 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:20:30 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Solfege My kid's school has recently switched from a conventional music program, to exclusively teaching all the beginners solfege. I believe the six and seventh graders get strictly solfege with the eighth graders being introduced to traditional music reading. So far, the HS has not seen the effects of this training. My junior and freshman sons went through before this change. I think next year's freshman class will be the first solfege exclusively trained class. My concern is this, my daughter will start sixth grade next year. Certainly, I can supplement her training with traditional music reading. However, it would seem to me that I should not have to do this, if a solfege exclusive training is just as good,or better, than traditional methods. Have any of you experienced this complete reliance on solfege in your schools? Do I have a worry or will this prove to be a superior way of learning music? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:15:46 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: re-subscribing (value/future of list) > >I attribute a lot of my drastic improvement in playing and knowledge of the >instrument that happened in the end of my junior year/all through my senior >year in high school to what I learned on this list. A combination of this >list, >private lessons for a semester with Dr. Scott McBride, and joining a >community >band all aided this transformation. > I too have gotten a world of information from this list. Could it be that we who have been on the list, for many years have been though most of the threads, several times, now, and that they no longer move us as they used to? Could it be that enough of us know where a thread on SOM, and the like, is going to go and head off the major battles, before they start? Before we all decide that the list no longer serves us and drop out, we should hear from some of the newbies, who are still getting their world of information from the list. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ö 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:43:16 -0600 From: Douglas Rowe Subject: Re: Solfege Steve, Is the Solfege moveable Do or immovable Do? With moveable Do "Do" is the tonic pitch of whatever key they are in. The student needs to recognize the key that the tune begins in so that they can determine what pitch is tonic, what the fifth is, etc. With immovable Do, (generally) C is designated as "Do" and, no matter what key they are in, written C is "Do," written D is "Re" etc. Basically it's replacing pitch names with solfege names. I don't have enough experience with Solfege to answer your questions ("Then why are you writing in?" someone could and very well may ask) but I think that making this distinction is important--in college ear training we used moveable Do, which required us to process the key signature (to figure out tonic)(which can get confusing when you start dealing with tunes that are undeterminably major, minor, or both) and then figure out the relative starting pitch. In my opinion immovable Do is not quite as useful--it just requires learning solfege syllables instead of note names, which really doesn't seem (to me) to hold much educational potential aside from confusion later on when real pitch names are introduced. I would think that using solfege would help young students begin HEARING the foundations of music--how pitches relate to their key and each other. In this way it could be a very important learning tool--after the course you're going to have kids who, at least on solfege, will have had a huge sight singing advantage over people who haven't gone through this (I never learned to sight sing until college--I'm still not great at it, although I can take dictation and hear pitches/intonation etc. pretty well). However, 2 years of strict solfege seems a little over kill to me. I'd be interested in hearing other peoples real world experiences (vs. my theoretical opinions) with this. Doug Steve Beck wrote: > My kid's school has recently switched from a conventional music program, to > exclusively teaching all the beginners solfege. > > I believe the six and seventh graders get strictly solfege with the eighth > graders being introduced to traditional music reading. > > So far, the HS has not seen the effects of this training. My junior and > freshman sons went through before this change. I think next year's freshman > class will be the first solfege exclusively trained class. > > My concern is this, my daughter will start sixth grade next year. > Certainly, I can supplement her training with traditional music reading. > However, it would seem to me that I should not have to do this, if a solfege > exclusive training is just as good,or better, than traditional methods. > > Have any of you experienced this complete reliance on solfege in your > schools? Do I have a worry or will this prove to be a superior way of > learning music? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:49:39 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Future of the Trombone-L Hi Steve & All, << (This is particularly in the case of one who this list went to great lengths to protect from a troll several years ago.) >> >From the outside it may have looked that way. But the 'inside' story - the one that was never fully told to the list because the list didn't need to know - was EXTREMELY vile, hurtful, and even expensive. It came far closer to killing the list than this current tremor. Along with many others, I was on the receiving end of some of it. Believe me when I say it wasn't a frivolous little exercise by a few 'miffed' listers. It's over now but, please, don't think it wasn't important just because you (universal, not specific) weren't touched by it. Eric and Chris did a great job of guiding/dragging the list through that awful time. It's a debt I can't adequately repay. I still get a lot from this list. If I didn't, I'd be gone in a Cleveland minute. (I chose Cleveland because I don't like New York - along with classical music, contemporary education, cats, liver, getting old, having babes call me 'sir', emission laws, being fat, being bald, and . . . Well, you get my point.) AND DON'T EXPECT ANY OF THOSE DAMN SMILEY THINGIES TO HELP YOU SEE THIS IS IN FUN, EITHER!!) Mike Suter Mike Suter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:55:58 -0600 From: Emil Subject: Re: Reka Super Slide John, Sorry for just now picking up on your question about Reka supersilde. Refridgerating it does one thing....just makes it more gummy and take longer to properly slick up the slide. I have been on the stuff for about 3 mo's now and find it to be head and shoulders better than SOM. It lasts so much longer and really gives more of a "cushioned " feel to my slides. It's the slickest stuff ever! My .02 cts. Emil Orth, Beale St. Jazz Band, Mempis, Tn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:07:04 EST From: BITEensemble@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Solfege In a message dated 2/29/2004 11:19:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, becks@MSU.EDU writes: My kid's school has recently switched from a conventional music program, to exclusively teaching all the beginners solfege. I believe the six and seventh graders get strictly solfege with the eighth graders being introduced to traditional music reading. So far, the HS has not seen the effects of this training. My junior and freshman sons went through before this change. I think next year's freshman class will be the first solfege exclusively trained class. My concern is this, my daughter will start sixth grade next year. Certainly, I can supplement her training with traditional music reading. However, it would seem to me that I should not have to do this, if a solfege exclusive training is just as good,or better, than traditional methods. Have any of you experienced this complete reliance on solfege in your schools? Do I have a worry or will this prove to be a superior way of learning music? I think I am misunderstanding the problem. Is it that the students are being fed the pitches by rote and not actually reading the music? Or is it that the kids are being taught "Do" rather than "C" (if it is fixed Do system)? The key here is ear training. There is absolutely NO TEACHING method that can replace ear training. So the fact that the kids are saying "Do" rather than "C" makes little difference until they get to harmony and the have no idea what a 5 of 5 chord is in a minor (for example). I cannot imagine they are being taught solfege without being taught to read music first (or at the same time). Give us more details on the teaching method and maybe we (the list) can come up with something more definitive. -Wes Wesley Hopper Trombone, Triton Brass Quintet Adjunct Professor of Trombone, Boston College 617.331.6438 www.tritonbrass.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:40:54 -0500 From: "Eiden, Peter" Subject: Resubscribing Walter Barrett asked me to forward the following to the list: ++++++++++++++++++ Pete- Would you forward this to the list for me, Thanks! I have tried to resubscribe numerous times since Christmas, due to a change of email address, and have gotten zero response from the List Owner, at several email addresses. If I'm not wanted back, please have the guts to explain why directly to me, at WaltTrombone@optonline.net. If there's a technical problem, a simple note would go a long way quelling the frustration that I (and, as it turns out, others!) am experiencing. Mr. Nicklas, are you out there? Walter Barrett "The problem with the world is everyone is a few drinks behind." - Humphrey Bogart Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba **************************************************************************** This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:52:57 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: Solfege From: > Give us more details on the teaching method and maybe we (the list) can come > up with something more definitive. Sorry, I have no details. Six and seventh graders are not taught musical notation. No notes, staffs whatever. I don't know if it is movable does or immovable bucks. For all I know they have Julie Andrews come and sing that silly song. So I'll ask again, is anyone aware of a school system that has had success completely replacing standard music "learning" with solfege? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:24:01 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Subject: Re: Solfege For whatever my opinion is worth, solfege is fine if you start as a young child, but there are numerous musicians, myself included, who learned to read music quite well without it, and if that really is the case, it isn't necessary to muddy the waters with it later, even at the university level in ear training classes. Just let them use one syllable on every note, but insist that every change of pitch is correct. However, this malarkey about not using any kind of musical notation at all is absolute garbage. My feeling is that there are too many students out there now who have been allowed to participate in music programs who never read to music, and considering that if it is taught properly and systematically, music is much easier to read than English because the rules never change, it is a real tragedy. Is this another attempt to "dumb down" our society so that everyone gets a chance? It's really not that difficult. The older systems where it is necessary to learn note values only requires students to have a basic knowledge of mathematics, which they will certainly need for the rest of their lives anyway. We have to know the alphabet in order to read in English, and different clefs will change the names of the lines and spaces, but they still only use the first 7 letters of the alphabet. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Beck" To: Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Solfege > From: > > Give us more details on the teaching method and maybe we (the list) can > come > > up with something more definitive. > > Sorry, I have no details. Six and seventh graders are not taught musical > notation. No notes, staffs whatever. I don't know if it is movable does or > immovable bucks. For all I know they have Julie Andrews come and sing that > silly song. > > So I'll ask again, is anyone aware of a school system that has had success > completely replacing standard music "learning" with solfege? > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:27:46 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Reka superslide... Ok, I feel totally out of the loop. When did the Reka lube come out? What distribution channels is it available (at the store I work at, we get Slide-O-Mix from Conn-Selmer)? Just curious. Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:55:02 -0700 From: Earl Needham Subject: Re: re-subscribing At 08:46 PM 2/27/2004, Jeff Oien wrote: > >I agree with this and if we could just get to the point where people >could subscribe to the list, there would be more people to participate. >People like Paul Hill, Dean McCarty etc etc etc are all trying to get >back on and can't. There are also people who are subscribed who can't >post for some reason. >Jeff Oien In June of 2002 there were some changes. At the risk of sounding patronizing (I don't mean it to be), please have them try the following: All commands are sent to: listserv@po.missouri.edu Subscribe: sub trombone-l Also, someone wanted to know specifics about membership numbers. I remember, when the list troll popped up, the list had around 1200 members. On Aug 9, 2002, we were down to 696 subscribers. Today we have 718 members. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1%:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> SETI@Home: 11385WU/7.39yrs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:56:01 -0500 From: Joestanko@AOL.COM Subject: NYC Hora Decima brass ensemble web site The NYC based brass ensemble, Hora Decmia, has a new web site. Included is information about the group and its founder/conductor, Dave Chamberlain, their new CD featuring Joe Alessi and James Markey, and clips from this CD. The address is - www.horadecima.com Joe Stanko ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:25:18 -0700 From: Delbert Pakiser Subject: Re: Reka Super Slide Hello Trombone Musicians, Most lubes do not mix well. They tend to gum up the valve and /or slide. We all know to clean the slide before we apply new lube. Might I suggest a good rinse to be added. When it is time, I clean the slide, rinse the slide with rubbing alcohol, then apply the new lube. When you think the slide is clean, take a clean white rag and get it wet with rubbing alcohol and wipe the slide. You might be surprised at what comes of the clean slide. I like to clean the valves and slide, rinse them with alcohol, and finally apply a lube. Del Pakiser Bass Trombone Denver, CO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Reka Super Slide > > > >I just bought and tried a bottle of Reka Super Slide. It worked very well > >on > >my Bach 42 slide. As well as S-O-M or Rapid Comfort. It does seem to last a > >little longer. However, the stuff didn't work worth a damn on my Shires > >slide. It gummed it up something terrible. > > "Gunned it up" sounds like you mixed different slide lubes. > > >I > >would think that refrigeration would make the Reka stuff congeal. I don't > >think that temperature extremes improve slide lubs, and may even make them > >worse. Just some of my observations. > > The question about refrigerating Reka makes sense for those who live in > colder climates. Whether they like it or not, their slide lube gets > "refrigerated" when they travel. > > DanP > > _________________________________________________________________ > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - 4 plans to choose from! > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:00:36 -0600 From: Richard Human Subject: Greg Harper @ Mississippi State Hi all, Greg Harper, the bass trombonist of the Colorado Symphony, was a guest artist at Mississippi State this past week. What a great sound and musicality he modeled for our students! On Tuesday he worked with our Wind Ensemble trombone section (Joel Oakley, Austin Walton, David McLaurin, Tison Reno, Lewis Baston and Lee Whitehead) on their current program. On Wednesday, Greg performed "New Orleans" and Lebedev's "Concerto" for our recital hour. He then worked with three of our low brass students on solo pieces. The overriding theme of his teaching was connection of the tone and music. I think he helped our students move towards a more vocal style of playing and also a more relaxed approach of production. I was most impressed at how he was able to meet each student "where they were" and not only help them see the next level, but also suggest exercises and approaches to achieve that next level. Greg also spoke cogently about the role of a bass trombonist in the symphony orchestra, taking auditions and working as a freelance performer. If you are looking for a bass trombone guest artist, I would highly recommend Greg to you. Richard ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- ----- --- Dr. Richard Human, Jr, Assistant Professor of Music Mississippi State University http://www.msstate.edu/dept/musiced/ Email: richard@trombone.org Office Phone: (662) 325-8021 Founder and Webmaster Online Trombone Journal "A web site for Trombonists" http://www.trombone.org/ "The more you know, the less you understand." --Tao Te Ching ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:26:39 -0500 From: TRBNTERRY Subject: Re: Reka superslide... Chris, it's available at both Brasswind and Hickey's Mike Terry ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 28 Feb 2004 to 29 Feb 2004 (#2004-61) ****************************************************************