Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 18 Feb 2004 to 19 Feb 2004 (#2004-51) Date: Friday, February 20, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 7 messages totalling 388 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Alto mouthpiece (4) 2. NYC concerts Feb. 23/24 3. Swing 4. Matt Guilford's blog goes daily ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:19:31 -0800 From: John & Rossana Cather Subject: Re: Alto mouthpiece I hope nobody minds if I pipe in with my usual diatribe here. Some have not heard it yet. So delete now, if you're sick of it. :-) You guys are all talking about tenor mouthpieces on an alto instrument. Bach 11C is a tenor mpc. Marcinkiewicz 15 is a tenor mpc. Bach 15ew is a shallow tenor mpc. All of them are about 24mm rim width. A trumpet rim width is about 18mm. An alto mpc should have a rim width in between those, or about 21mm. Now, I know you guys are all basically tenor players and want to double on an alto. And I'm all for it. So why not seek a mpc that plays that 1/2 octave higher and gets that more focused sound? These are the complaints that I always hear from alto doublers, (poor high range, unfocused sound and poor endurance on the high stuff). Who would put a tuba mpc on a bass tbn, or bass tbn mpc on a tenor? It's the same thing. And you'll get the same exact results-poor high range unfocused sound etc. I know a true alto size mpc is hard to find, but makers will make them if you ask. I have made all my own alto mpc's in my garage. (I used to work for Marcinkiewicz) I have made several for other players who wanted them. They all report very happy results. Just call your favorite maker and ask them to make you one about 21-22mm rim width. You'll be amazed the difference it can make. However, the trade off is that you now have to get used to the smaller alto mpc. And it takes time and effort. Mind you, I'm not the average trombone player. Kind of strange in fact. I play soprano-alto-tenor-bass trombones. I play soprano-alto-tenor-bass mpc's on them and get the exact equivalent range on all of them. One other thing before I finish my rant. A lot of these so called altos like the Conn 36h? I call them short tenors, because they have a tenor bore and tenor size bell and even a tenor mpc shank. And to me they sound a lot like tenors. I like the one Olds used to make. Even DEG made one with the right profile-of course it's badly made. OK, done with my ranting for now. Cheers, John Cather > >Message text written by INTERNET:jeff@jeffalbert.com >>I just got a good deal on an alto trombone, so I thought I'd experiment >with >it a bit. My question for you alto players out there is: what mouthpieces >have you liked? It arrived with a no name marked 11C (that feels really >big). I've tried a Bach 11C in it, and that seems to work, and I have also >tried a Marcinkiewicz 15 that seems to work pretty well. Other suggestions? >< > >I am a "converted" Bass player and tend to use large mouthpieces. > >When I got my Conn 36H I used an older Bach 4C with good results, but the >mouthpiece that came with it (a Conn 7C) actually gave the best intonation >in the closed positions (Bb's not too sharp, G's not too flat). Bach >Mouthpiece Manual recommends 15EW. Some folks even like 22's. It's a very >personal thing. I avoid small mouthpieces, but that's just me. > >You might want to take Sam's approach and get a mouthpiece you like and >overshave the shank so you can adjust position with tape. > >Good luck. > >Bruce Guttman >Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra (MA) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:46:27 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Alto mouthpiece You're right - most "altos" are built very similarly to short tenors. That is because they are made to suit tenor players. These are tenor players who want to blend and balance with other tenor players. And this is a double for them, not a main instrument - it has to be as easy as possible, giving them the characteristic sound they want. So they use a slightly small tenor mouthpiece on their slightly small tenor, to be slightly smaller than the player next to them, who's playing on a Bach 42 or 36. I'm not saying you're wrong, and a true alto is a gem (I think the Bach counts too). But it's not what the players are looking for or have time to learn. And the conductor doesn't want "something different" either. He/She wants their trombone section (sound and all), hitting the right notes. Modern altos help this. My $.02 J.c.S. > I hope nobody minds if I pipe in with my usual diatribe here. Some > have not heard it yet. So delete now, if you're sick of it. :-) > > You guys are all talking about tenor mouthpieces on an alto > instrument. Bach 11C is a tenor mpc. Marcinkiewicz 15 is a tenor > mpc. Bach 15ew is a shallow tenor mpc. All of them are about 24mm > rim width. A trumpet rim width is about 18mm. An alto mpc should > have a rim width in between those, or about 21mm. Now, I know you > guys are all basically tenor players and want to double on an alto. > And I'm all for it. So why not seek a mpc that plays that 1/2 octave > higher and gets that more focused sound? These are the complaints > that I always hear from alto doublers, (poor high range, unfocused > sound and poor endurance on the high stuff). Who would put a tuba > mpc on a bass tbn, or bass tbn mpc on a tenor? It's the same thing. > And you'll get the same exact results-poor high range unfocused sound > etc. > > I know a true alto size mpc is hard to find, but makers will make > them if you ask. I have made all my own alto mpc's in my garage. (I > used to work for Marcinkiewicz) I have made several for other > players who wanted them. They all report very happy results. Just > call your favorite maker and ask them to make you one about 21-22mm > rim width. You'll be amazed the difference it can make. However, > the trade off is that you now have to get used to the smaller alto > mpc. And it takes time and effort. > > Mind you, I'm not the average trombone player. Kind of strange in > fact. I play soprano-alto-tenor-bass trombones. I play > soprano-alto-tenor-bass mpc's on them and get the exact equivalent > range on all of them. > > One other thing before I finish my rant. A lot of these so called > altos like the Conn 36h? I call them short tenors, because they have > a tenor bore and tenor size bell and even a tenor mpc shank. And to > me they sound a lot like tenors. I like the one Olds used to make. > Even DEG made one with the right profile-of course it's badly made. > > OK, done with my ranting for now. > > Cheers, > John Cather > > > > >Message text written by INTERNET:jeff@jeffalbert.com > >>I just got a good deal on an alto trombone, so I thought I'd experiment > >with > >it a bit. My question for you alto players out there is: what mouthpieces > >have you liked? It arrived with a no name marked 11C (that feels really > >big). I've tried a Bach 11C in it, and that seems to work, and I have also > >tried a Marcinkiewicz 15 that seems to work pretty well. Other suggestions? > >< > > > >I am a "converted" Bass player and tend to use large mouthpieces. > > > >When I got my Conn 36H I used an older Bach 4C with good results, but the > >mouthpiece that came with it (a Conn 7C) actually gave the best intonation > >in the closed positions (Bb's not too sharp, G's not too flat). Bach > >Mouthpiece Manual recommends 15EW. Some folks even like 22's. It's a very > >personal thing. I avoid small mouthpieces, but that's just me. > > > >You might want to take Sam's approach and get a mouthpiece you like and > >overshave the shank so you can adjust position with tape. > > > >Good luck. > > > >Bruce Guttman > >Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra (MA) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:19:31 -0800 From: David Guion Subject: Re: Alto mouthpiece John Cather ranted: >You guys are all talking about tenor mouthpieces on an alto >instrument. . . >One other thing before I finish my rant. A lot of these so called >altos like the Conn 36h? I call them short tenors, because they have >a tenor bore and tenor size bell and even a tenor mpc shank. And to >me they sound a lot like tenors. Preach it, brother! Preach it! Amen! I don't think I have ever heard what an alto trombone really sounds like. Even the "small bore" tenors made today seem to be larger than the medium or large bore tenors (i.e. Conn 4H) of the early 20th century. *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* David Guion Founder, Brass Band of the Piedmont Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? david@trombone.org *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ Sent via trombone.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:00:10 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Alto mouthpiece John, >These are the complaints >that I always hear from alto doublers, (poor high range, unfocused >sound and poor endurance on the high stuff). I sometimes take out my althorn. Now, I know it isnāt an alto trombone, but maybe there are some similarities. With the alto mouthpiece, it came with, it has a piercing, nasal tone, more like what youād want if you were hunting or herding sheep. Itās certainly not a tone one would want to listen to indoors. But it does give me the range and it certainly has focus. As a result, I gladly play my althorn with a trombone mouthpiece, something like a Conn 3. No, I donāt get what you would call ćfocusä and what Iād call shrieking. And, no, I donāt what youād call ćrangeä and Iād call high-pitched shrieking. But it sounds pretty good with a trombone mouthpiece and I want my playing to sound good. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:26:47 -0500 From: Monique Buzzarte Subject: NYC concerts Feb. 23/24 I'm doing two NYC concerts next week which might be of interest to local Trombone-Lers interested in new music. Monday's concert features improvisational works with live processing for a trombone/soprano duo; Tuesday's concert features the premiere of several new work for trombone and tape. Hope to see some of you there - if you stop by please say hello afterwards! Details below. Monique PS David Tayor plays tonight at Merkin! Monday, Feb. 23rd ************** >Harvestworks is pleased to present Zanana (Monique BuzzartŽ, >trombone and Kristin Norderval, voice) on Monday, February >23, 2004 at 7:00pm on DVDVDVDA, a free concert series that >explores the intersection of art and technology. > >Zanana is a collaborative duo performing improvised music that >blends acoustic sounds, electronics, and live processing. > >Harvestworks, a non-profit arts organization that provides >opportunities for the public to see and hear innovative artists. >DVDVDVDA, Artists in this series explore the potential of digital >video and 5.1 surround sound. The series is free and open to the public. > >Monday, February 23 at 7:00pm (free) >Harvestworks >596 Broadway, Suite 602 >corner of Broadway & Houston >subway: Broadway/Lafayette (F/V), Bleecker (6), Prince St. (N/R) >more information 212-431-1130 Tuesday, Feb. 24th >New Music from Women: Trombone celebrates its 20th season >with premieres of newly commissioned works for trombone and >tape, electronics and live processing on Tuesday, February 24, >2004 , at 8:00 PM at the Renee Weiler Hall of the Greenwich House >Music School located at 46 Barrow Street in Manhattan (one block >west of the intersection of Bleecker Street and Seventh Avenue South >on Barrow Street), with admission on a sliding scale (suggested >$5-$15). > >Three newly commissioned works from composers Alexandra Gardner, >Alice Shields and K. Terumi Shorb will be performed by trombonist >Monique BuzzartŽ. Alice Shields' Miortiza for trombone and tape is a >requiem for American peace activist Rachel Corrie. K. Terumi Shorb's >Three Meditations on War at Home for trombone and tape explores the >connections of a war on the other side of the globe with the Department >of Homeland Security's war on our own front door. Alexandra Gardner's >Snapdragon for live electronics and trombone weaves together the trombone >and electronic sounds into an aural landscape of >shifting rhythms and textures. >Also on the program are two works with live processing: Monique BuzzartŽ's >Resurfings and Black Hole, a collaborative composition with Pauline Oliveros > >Tuesday, February 24 at 8pm (sliding-scale admission, suggested $5-$15) >Renee Weiler Hall >Greenwich House Music School >46 Barrow Street in Manhattan >(one block west of Bleecker Street and Seventh Avenue South >Directions: >Greenwich House Music School can be reached by the A, C, E, F, V >and 1 and 9 subway lines. Bus service is available on the M8 and M20 >lines. Riders on the 1 or 9 trains should exit at the Christopher >Street/Sheridan Square station (one stop below 14th Street going >south or if traveling north one stop after Houston Street.) Walk >south and turn right onto Barrow Street, directly after Bleecker >Street. The Music School is located in the middle of the block. >Riders on the A, C, E, F, and V trains should exit at the West Fourth >Street station. Proceed to West Fourth Street and walk three blocks >west to Barrow Street. Cross Seventh Avenue to the other side of >Barrow Street. >more information 212-942-6024 -- ________________________ Monique BuzzartŽ monique@buzzarte.org http://www.buzzarte.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:29:38 -0800 From: Steve Ferguson Subject: Re: Swing Swing has 4 horns on stage, including one tenor bone. Solo bone part is played on stage with the singer in one tune, definately get the CD of the show, as almost nothing is written out in the part, but the original bone player did a great improv. Get ready, it's a pretty hard show, especially with the need to move around while playing the solo. Steve Ferguson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:25:55 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Matt Guilford's blog goes daily --Apple-Mail-1-152507830 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed For those interested, National Symphony Orchestra bass trombonist Matt Guilford's weblog is being updated daily while Matt and the NSO are on their East Coast tour. Check out: http://radio.weblogs.com/0131158/ Read and feel free to join the conversation. See you there! ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for success. --Apple-Mail-1-152507830 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII VerdanaFor those interested, National Symphony Orchestra bass trombonist Matt Guilford's weblog is being updated daily while Matt and the NSO are on their East Coast tour. Check out: 0000,6666,9999http://radio.weblogs.com/0131158/ Read and feel free to join the conversation. See you there! Lucida Grande---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for success. --Apple-Mail-1-152507830-- ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 18 Feb 2004 to 19 Feb 2004 (#2004-51) ****************************************************************