Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 17 Feb 2004 to 18 Feb 2004 (#2004-50) Date: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 18 messages totalling 671 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Yankee Doodle Dandy 2. Slide Plating (4) 3. FW: [TBN-L] Slide Plating 4. Swing (7) 5. Alto mouthpiece (2) 6. TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Feb 2004 to 17 Feb 2004 (#2004-49) 7. Raph date (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:11:47 -0600 From: Fred Hudson Subject: Re: Yankee Doodle Dandy "Yankee Doodle Dandy" was the name of a movie - bio of George M Cohan. Came out in early '40's. Don't know if it was originally a stage event but it sounds like a revival. If so it would be a lot of fun - bound to have good trombone book. Fred H ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric & Candice Swanson" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:47 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Yankee Doodle Dandy > Anybody know anything about a Broadway show called "Yankee Doodle > Dandy"? Apparently, it's a new show. I'm wondering if anybody has > played it yet. > > Thanks, > > Eric Swanson > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:25:12 +1100 From: Simon Greatwood Subject: Re: Slide Plating >Simon, > >I would think it's because chrome is harder and slipperier than monel. > I don't think anyone has found anything better than chrome to use for >inner slide tubes yet. > >Eric Swanson Hmm, fair enough, but surely a valve's gotta move pretty fast Eric? Has anyone made a solid nickel or chrome slide? They'd be heavier and more expensive, but trumpet valves are generally fairly solid tubes of monel with brass tubes in them. Just curious. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:40:11 -0700 From: Eric Edwards Subject: FW: [TBN-L] Slide Plating I believe it's a matter of how to work with the material. I don't think you can draw Monel out like you can the nickel or brass tubing. Pistons made of Monel are machined on a lathe to the correct dimensions. Also, I'm pretty sure the inner tubes are made of nickel and then chromed. Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards bonearzt@cox.net "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price fades". -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Simon Greatwood Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:25 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide Plating >Simon, > >I would think it's because chrome is harder and slipperier than monel. > I don't think anyone has found anything better than chrome to use for >inner slide tubes yet. > >Eric Swanson Hmm, fair enough, but surely a valve's gotta move pretty fast Eric? Has anyone made a solid nickel or chrome slide? They'd be heavier and more expensive, but trumpet valves are generally fairly solid tubes of monel with brass tubes in them. Just curious. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:11:21 -0600 From: Erik Berggren Subject: Swing Since there have been many posts about Broadway show instrumentation, etc., lately, does anyone have any experience playing "Swing". It's coming up for me next month and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips or recommendations on how best to play the T-bone book. By the way I've solicited comments, I fully expect to get both comical and serious responses! :-) =20 Thanks! =20 Erik Berggren - AAA (Always An Amateur) =20 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:33:28 -0500 From: Bruce Guttman Subject: Alto mouthpiece Message text written by INTERNET:jeff@jeffalbert.com >I just got a good deal on an alto trombone, so I thought I'd experiment with it a bit. My question for you alto players out there is: what mouthpieces have you liked? It arrived with a no name marked 11C (that feels really big). I've tried a Bach 11C in it, and that seems to work, and I have also tried a Marcinkiewicz 15 that seems to work pretty well. Other suggestions? < I am a "converted" Bass player and tend to use large mouthpieces. When I got my Conn 36H I used an older Bach 4C with good results, but the mouthpiece that came with it (a Conn 7C) actually gave the best intonation in the closed positions (Bb's not too sharp, G's not too flat). Bach Mouthpiece Manual recommends 15EW. Some folks even like 22's. It's a very personal thing. I avoid small mouthpieces, but that's just me. You might want to take Sam's approach and get a mouthpiece you like and overshave the shank so you can adjust position with tape. Good luck. Bruce Guttman Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra (MA) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:45:19 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Feb 2004 to 17 Feb 2004 (#2004-49) I use a Doug Elliott. 101 rim (the rim size I used when I regularly played Elliott; kind of a 5G size rim), C cup (fairly shallow) with a C2 shank. I also occassionally use a Denis Wick 10CS. Chris Dearth Principal Trombone, West Virginia Symphony 2nd Trombone, Evansville Philharmonic Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:51:10 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Alto mouthpiece I just got a good deal on an alto trombone, so I thought I'd experiment with it a bit. My question for you alto players out there is: what mouthpieces have you liked? It arrived with a no name marked 11C (that feels really big). I've tried a Bach 11C in it, and that seems to work, and I have also tried a Marcinkiewicz 15 that seems to work pretty well. Other suggestions? Jeff Albert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:50:41 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Slide Plating Simon Greatwood wrote: >>Simon, >> >>I would think it's because chrome is harder and slipperier than monel. >>I don't think anyone has found anything better than chrome to use for >>inner slide tubes yet. >> >>Eric Swanson >> >> > > >Hmm, fair enough, but surely a valve's gotta move pretty fast Eric? >Has anyone made a solid nickel or chrome slide? They'd be heavier and >more expensive, but trumpet valves are generally fairly solid tubes of >monel with brass tubes in them. > > Simon, Yes, I have seen some trombone inner slides that were solid nickel (with no plating). That works pretty well, but I think the manufacturers have found that chrome plating still works better. Why else would pretty much 100% of trombones made have chrome plated slides? I'm not a metallurgist, but I don't think that they could be made of solid chrome, I think it only exists as a plating (I could be wrong about that). Yes, trumpet valves have to move plenty fast. The difference, I guess, is that a piston is about 3-4" long and a trombone slide is 26-29" long so there's a lot more friction involved. I think that having undoubtedly tried almost everything available, the big manufacturers have decided that chrome works the best for trombone inner slides. I'm sure monel would work OK, but probably about like solid nickel or nickel plate, which seems to be second best. A lot of the student line horns used to have nickel plated slides, and they worked just OK. Even they have gone to chrome nowadays. Having said all that, I don't know why it is that piston valves are not chrome plated, but there is probably some reason. Maybe because they have to be lapped in, which doesn't work too well with chrome. I tried to lap in a trombone slide with pumice once--ended up wearing the chrome off the stockings on a brand new set of inner slides. Monel valves aren't plated, they are solid monel, so there's no plating to wear off which is a good thing when you're lapping in the valves. I think that's why they use the monel valves...they don't have to be plated. I didn't mean to get so long winded, sorry. Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:18:00 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Swing Erik Berggren wrote: >Since there have been many posts about Broadway show instrumentation, >etc., lately, does anyone have any experience playing "Swing". It's >coming up for me next month and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips or >recommendations on how best to play the T-bone book. > Erik, Unless I'm mixing it up with some other show, Swing is the show that uses all recorded music. There was a big stink a couple years back when it won a Tony for "Best Musical" and it didn't even have any live music. No band, no singing, just dancing to old big band recordings I believe. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I have the right show. Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:47:22 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Alto mouthpiece You don't say which alto you got Jeff. I had a Conn 36H which worked very well with a Bach 7C. I now use an Amati, which is smaller, and with that I use a Doug Elliot XT106 with a D cup and D2 shank. This is a happy combination with a fairly solid high register. Keith in Bb/F/D (but in Eb occasionally!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Guttman" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:33 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Alto mouthpiece > Message text written by INTERNET:jeff@jeffalbert.com > >I just got a good deal on an alto trombone, so I thought I'd experiment > with > it a bit. My question for you alto players out there is: what mouthpieces > have you liked? It arrived with a no name marked 11C (that feels really > big). I've tried a Bach 11C in it, and that seems to work, and I have also > tried a Marcinkiewicz 15 that seems to work pretty well. Other suggestions? > < > > I am a "converted" Bass player and tend to use large mouthpieces. > > When I got my Conn 36H I used an older Bach 4C with good results, but the > mouthpiece that came with it (a Conn 7C) actually gave the best intonation > in the closed positions (Bb's not too sharp, G's not too flat). Bach > Mouthpiece Manual recommends 15EW. Some folks even like 22's. It's a very > personal thing. I avoid small mouthpieces, but that's just me. > > You might want to take Sam's approach and get a mouthpiece you like and > overshave the shank so you can adjust position with tape. > > Good luck. > > Bruce Guttman > Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra (MA) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release Date: 13/02/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:32:47 -0500 From: Mike Purdy Subject: Re: Swing Swing had a moderate Broadway run and used a live but small band on stage. The band is an integral part of the show and the trombone player even has a bit that calls for hamming it up with a female vocalist on a drag tempo tune caressing her legs and sides with the slide while playing. The player, at least on the Broadway version, comes out onto the stage front and shares spotlight w/ the singer. The music in the show is pretty much nonstop and is a lexicon of all swing styles from up tempo jump to country swing. I said the band is small and if I remember correctly is 3 reeds, 2 tpts, 1 tbn and rhythm. Really nice arrangements of a lot of standard tunes. Best of my recollections. Mike Erik Berggren To Sent by: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU "Trombones and cc related issues forum." Subject 02/18/04 09:11 AM Please respond to Erik Berggren Since there have been many posts about Broadway show instrumentation, etc., lately, does anyone have any experience playing "Swing". It's coming up for me next month and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips or recommendations on how best to play the T-bone book. By the way I've solicited comments, I fully expect to get both comical and serious responses! :-) Thanks! Erik Berggren - AAA (Always An Amateur) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:55:17 -0600 From: Bill Dinwiddie Subject: Re: Swing Mike Purdy said: "The band is an integral part of the show and the trombone player even = has a bit that calls for hamming it up with a female vocalist on a drag tempo tune caressing her legs and sides with the slide while playing."=20 Hey Mike,=20 I would like to do a few months of that show, but I could not pay them = more than $500.00 per week. Bill Dinwiddie billdin@comcast.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:00:47 -0600 From: Jay Heltzer Subject: Raph date Hi List, I am performing Alan Raph's "Rock" on a recital in a few weeks. Can anyone tell me of his birth year for the program? I can't seem to come up with it. Thanks. Jay Heltzer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:16:41 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: Raph date I don't know about a date, but here's the link to his website: http://home.earthlink.net/~araph/ ===== Gabe Langfur Boston, MA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:30:50 EST From: Matmutt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Swing The band id onstage. The tune is "Cry Me a River",bone plunger solo and female vocal duet. Larry Priori In a message dated 2/18/2004 1:58:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, billdin@COMCAST.NET writes: "The band is an integral part of the show and the trombone player even has a bit that calls for hamming it up with a female vocalist on a drag tempo tune caressing her legs and sides with the slide while playing." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:53:36 EST From: ALFORDMB@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Swing In a message dated 2/18/2004 1:58:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, billdin@COMCAST.NET writes: Mike Purdy said: "The band is an integral part of the show and the trombone player even has a bit that calls for hamming it up with a female vocalist on a drag tempo tune caressing her legs and sides with the slide while playing." Hey Mike, I would like to do a few months of that show, but I could not pay them more than $500.00 per week. Bill Dinwiddie ========================= This may be the funniest thing I seen on the list to date! Thanks Bill !! Mike Alford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:54:18 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Slide Plating Actually, many piston valves are chrome plated on cheeper horns and tubas... J.c.S. > Simon Greatwood wrote: > > >>Simon, > >> > >>I would think it's because chrome is harder and slipperier than monel. > >>I don't think anyone has found anything better than chrome to use for > >>inner slide tubes yet. > >> > >>Eric Swanson > >> > >> > > > > > >Hmm, fair enough, but surely a valve's gotta move pretty fast Eric? > >Has anyone made a solid nickel or chrome slide? They'd be heavier and > >more expensive, but trumpet valves are generally fairly solid tubes of > >monel with brass tubes in them. > > > > > > Simon, > > Yes, I have seen some trombone inner slides that were solid nickel (with > no plating). That works pretty well, but I think the manufacturers have > found that chrome plating still works better. Why else would pretty > much 100% of trombones made have chrome plated slides? I'm not a > metallurgist, but I don't think that they could be made of solid chrome, > I think it only exists as a plating (I could be wrong about that). > > Yes, trumpet valves have to move plenty fast. The difference, I guess, > is that a piston is about 3-4" long and a trombone slide is 26-29" long > so there's a lot more friction involved. > > I think that having undoubtedly tried almost everything available, the > big manufacturers have decided that chrome works the best for trombone > inner slides. I'm sure monel would work OK, but probably about like > solid nickel or nickel plate, which seems to be second best. A lot of > the student line horns used to have nickel plated slides, and they > worked just OK. Even they have gone to chrome nowadays. > > Having said all that, I don't know why it is that piston valves are not > chrome plated, but there is probably some reason. Maybe because they > have to be lapped in, which doesn't work too well with chrome. I tried > to lap in a trombone slide with pumice once--ended up wearing the chrome > off the stockings on a brand new set of inner slides. Monel valves > aren't plated, they are solid monel, so there's no plating to wear off > which is a good thing when you're lapping in the valves. I think that's > why they use the monel valves...they don't have to be plated. > > I didn't mean to get so long winded, sorry. > > Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:59:32 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Slide Plating Whoops! what I MEANT to say was valved brasses, including tubas. I've never seen a horn with that sor of set-up. As for using monel - a chrome plated nickle-silver slide is flexible, and therein lies it's strength, like an airplane wing. Monel is not, and thus works well honed and lapped to tolerance in a piston valve. > Actually, many piston valves are chrome plated on cheeper horns and tubas... > > J.c.S. > > Simon Greatwood wrote: > > > > >>Simon, > > >> > > >>I would think it's because chrome is harder and slipperier than monel. > > >>I don't think anyone has found anything better than chrome to use for > > >>inner slide tubes yet. > > >> > > >>Eric Swanson > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >Hmm, fair enough, but surely a valve's gotta move pretty fast Eric? > > >Has anyone made a solid nickel or chrome slide? They'd be heavier and > > >more expensive, but trumpet valves are generally fairly solid tubes of > > >monel with brass tubes in them. > > > > > > > > > > Simon, > > > > Yes, I have seen some trombone inner slides that were solid nickel (with > > no plating). That works pretty well, but I think the manufacturers have > > found that chrome plating still works better. Why else would pretty > > much 100% of trombones made have chrome plated slides? I'm not a > > metallurgist, but I don't think that they could be made of solid chrome, > > I think it only exists as a plating (I could be wrong about that). > > > > Yes, trumpet valves have to move plenty fast. The difference, I guess, > > is that a piston is about 3-4" long and a trombone slide is 26-29" long > > so there's a lot more friction involved. > > > > I think that having undoubtedly tried almost everything available, the > > big manufacturers have decided that chrome works the best for trombone > > inner slides. I'm sure monel would work OK, but probably about like > > solid nickel or nickel plate, which seems to be second best. A lot of > > the student line horns used to have nickel plated slides, and they > > worked just OK. Even they have gone to chrome nowadays. > > > > Having said all that, I don't know why it is that piston valves are not > > chrome plated, but there is probably some reason. Maybe because they > > have to be lapped in, which doesn't work too well with chrome. I tried > > to lap in a trombone slide with pumice once--ended up wearing the chrome > > off the stockings on a brand new set of inner slides. Monel valves > > aren't plated, they are solid monel, so there's no plating to wear off > > which is a good thing when you're lapping in the valves. I think that's > > why they use the monel valves...they don't have to be plated. > > > > I didn't mean to get so long winded, sorry. > > > > Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:46:28 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Swing Mike Purdy wrote: >Swing had a moderate Broadway run and used a live but small band on stage. >The band is an integral part of the show ....... > I stand corrected. Eric ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 17 Feb 2004 to 18 Feb 2004 (#2004-50) ****************************************************************