Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 15 Feb 2004 to 16 Feb 2004 (#2004-48) Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 14 messages totalling 509 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Lassus Trombones 2. More ITA Comp Results 3. Broadway show instrumentation (11) 4. OTJ Classifieds Update - 2/16/04 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:34:26 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lassus Trombones Hi Denny & All, << Yes, there is a great arrangement of Lassus, on the East meets West "Trombones Unlimited" LP and I think a very similar arrangement was on Tutti's Trombones LP, also. >> According to Ken Shroyer who did both sessions, they are the same arrangement. BTW my arrangement of Lassus on my Trombania CD is an emulation of Barker's arrangement. It was very difficult choosing what to include - and omit - while keeping the essence of the original chart. I got lucky. << Anybody remember if Tutti Cammarata was actually an alias for Warren Barker? I though this might have been tossed around the list, in the past? >> I had the great privilege to meet Warren Barker a while back. A real gentleman. One thing he told me was that he used an orchestrator for the FOUR arrangements he wrote for 10 'bones and rhythm. Until then I was only aware of Lassus. Sadly though, he couldn't remember who the orchestrator was. I mentioned Tutti Camarata, and Mr. Barker (I have a hard time calling him Warren; I'm that mu ch in awe) said that he'd used him from time to time but couldn't recall if he orchestrated Lassus or not. He was so busy back then that I'm not surprised. The other three titles? No luck. An elderly gentleman and 30+ year old memories. I've been out of the loop so long that I don't know if either Camarata or Barker is still with us. About orchestrators: You'd be amazed at how much writing was 'ghosted' back then. It's covered a little in "September In The Rain" (a Nelson Riddle bio). There's a story in it (I think that's the source) where Riddle even used Billy May once in a while. With such individual styles you'd think it wouldn't work. But they all (well, all's probably the wrong word. Let's say a group of maybe 10 peers) 'ghosted' or orchestrated for one and other frequently. Terry Woodson was his last orchestrator (and conductor). There's some funny stuff in the book from him about turning Riddle's scratches and shorthand into playable arrangements. There's also mention of writing 3 to 6 arrangements a day! Barker told me much the same. No wonder they needed orchestrators. And it is still done a lot. I attended a symposium a few weeks ago by Conrad Pope, who orchestrates for such small timers as John Williams, John Horner, Danny Elfman, and guys like that. Out here he's one of the 'go to' guys: very well known. Yet he's only done two films under his own name. His own style is very orchestral in nature. Very thick and intricate. But in the soundtrack examples they played at the symposium it was clear that he can 'sound' like anyone he chooses. That's gotta be an interesting job. All The Best, Mike Suter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:34:30 -0800 From: Joshua Brown Subject: More ITA Comp Results Hi all, Most of the results are now in: http://www.trombone.net/competitions/ The Marsteller results should be in soon. Josh __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:55:02 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Broadway show instrumentation Gang, You that play in the pit orchestras in large cities for the national tours of Broadway shows and other shows of that caliber: I just got a list of shows that will be playing here in the next few months, and I am looking for information about the low brass instrumentation for these shows, so I have some idea which shows I might be working. The Full Monty---Does it still have one tenor, one bass trombone? Urinetown---It has only one trombone, what's the part like? Miss Saigon---What's the instrumentation of the current US tour? Les Miz---Are they still carrying the bass trombone? Yankee Doodle Dandy---New show, any trombones? The King and I---not a tour, but what's the most current instrumentation? Annie---not a tour, but how many trombones? Big River---The Deaf West Theatre production. Anybody played this version? Beauty and the Beast---not the tour, one or two bones? Joseph and the Dreamcoat---any trombones? JC Superstar---No winds at all right? Thoroughly Modern Millie---US tour, still two trombones? You can answer off list if you want. Thanks, Eric Swanson Dallas/Fort Worth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:23:33 -0500 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation Eric> You that play in the pit orchestras in large cities for the national Eric> tours of Broadway shows and other shows of that caliber: I just got a Eric> list of shows that will be playing here in the next few months, and I am Eric> looking for information about the low brass instrumentation for these Eric> shows, so I have some idea which shows I might be working. [...] I don't know if this'll help out or not to know whether there are trombones in the arrangements. I've not played for tours that came through, but do a lot of pit orchestras in general. No idea about instrumentation of the tours themselves: Superstar's got a trombone part, but most often folks just do a rock combo, no winds. Joseph doesn't have a trombone book at all, just trumpet and horn. Annie orchestration's got two trombone books, the first is very key and the second's mostly useless (in my opinion). Big River has one trombone/euphonium doubling book. King & I has at least one trombone book, fairly important if I remember correctly. Les Miz tours with at least one bone, not sure if there are two. The rest of them, don't know. --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:57:46 -0800 From: Matthew Stoecker Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat? Is that the Joseph = mentioned here? If so, that DOES have a trombone/tuba book. I played it = in college. Nothing too difficult, and some nice (if short) solo lines = on 'close every door'. Matthew Stoecker ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Harlan Feinstein=20 To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Broadway show instrumentation Eric> You that play in the pit orchestras in large cities for the = national Eric> tours of Broadway shows and other shows of that caliber: I = just got a Eric> list of shows that will be playing here in the next few = months, and I am Eric> looking for information about the low brass instrumentation = for these Eric> shows, so I have some idea which shows I might be working. [...] I don't know if this'll help out or not to know whether there are = trombones in the arrangements. I've not played for tours that came through, but do = a lot of pit orchestras in general. No idea about instrumentation of the = tours themselves: Superstar's got a trombone part, but most often folks just do a rock = combo, no winds. Joseph doesn't have a trombone book at all, just trumpet and = horn. Annie orchestration's got two trombone books, the first is very key = and the second's mostly useless (in my opinion). Big River has one = trombone/euphonium doubling book. King & I has at least one trombone book, fairly = important if I remember correctly. Les Miz tours with at least one bone, not sure if = there are two. The rest of them, don't know. --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:01:15 -0000 From: David Musgrove Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation The Jesus Christ Superstar that was running in London's West End had two or three trombones - I remember seeing Dave Stewart (now of the LPO) playing bass trombone in it when I went. There must be no end of different ways to do a lot of these shows. David -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Harlan Feinstein Sent: 16 February 2004 18:24 To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Broadway show instrumentation Eric> You that play in the pit orchestras in large cities for the national Eric> tours of Broadway shows and other shows of that caliber: I just got a Eric> list of shows that will be playing here in the next few months, and I am Eric> looking for information about the low brass instrumentation for these Eric> shows, so I have some idea which shows I might be working. [...] I don't know if this'll help out or not to know whether there are trombones in the arrangements. I've not played for tours that came through, but do a lot of pit orchestras in general. No idea about instrumentation of the tours themselves: Superstar's got a trombone part, but most often folks just do a rock combo, no winds. Joseph doesn't have a trombone book at all, just trumpet and horn. Annie orchestration's got two trombone books, the first is very key and the second's mostly useless (in my opinion). Big River has one trombone/euphonium doubling book. King & I has at least one trombone book, fairly important if I remember correctly. Les Miz tours with at least one bone, not sure if there are two. The rest of them, don't know. --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:14:15 -0500 From: Mike Loewen Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Eric & Candice Swanson wrote: > You that play in the pit orchestras in large cities for the national > tours of Broadway shows and other shows of that caliber: I just got a > list of shows that will be playing here in the next few months, and I am > looking for information about the low brass instrumentation for these > shows, so I have some idea which shows I might be working. > > Thoroughly Modern Millie---US tour, still two trombones? I just got done playing Millie in Hershey, PA. The 2nd bone book doubles tuba, 60% bass trombone, 40% tuba. It requires a strong bass bone player, and there are a lot of exposed bass bone and tuba parts. Great show! Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:11:28 -0500 From: kalwas Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation When Beauty and the Beast came here a couple of years ago, there was one book which contained tenor and bass trombone and tuba. Bob Kalwas > Gang, > > You that play in the pit orchestras in large cities for the national > tours of Broadway shows and other shows of that caliber: I just got a > list of shows that will be playing here in the next few months, and I am > looking for information about the low brass instrumentation for these > shows, so I have some idea which shows I might be working. > > The Full Monty---Does it still have one tenor, one bass trombone? > Urinetown---It has only one trombone, what's the part like? > Miss Saigon---What's the instrumentation of the current US tour? > Les Miz---Are they still carrying the bass trombone? > Yankee Doodle Dandy---New show, any trombones? > The King and I---not a tour, but what's the most current instrumentation? > Annie---not a tour, but how many trombones? > Big River---The Deaf West Theatre production. Anybody played this version? > Beauty and the Beast---not the tour, one or two bones? > Joseph and the Dreamcoat---any trombones? > JC Superstar---No winds at all right? > Thoroughly Modern Millie---US tour, still two trombones? > > You can answer off list if you want. > > Thanks, > > Eric Swanson > Dallas/Fort Worth > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:59:47 -0500 From: Dansatt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation Here's what I understand: > The Full Monty---Does it still have one tenor, one bass trombone? Yes, but it has become a self-contained, non-union tour. We just got unhired for it in Ft. Lauderdale. > Urinetown---It has only one trombone, what's the part like? Tenor trombone with euphonium double on Broadway. They might be carrying someone on the tour... > Miss Saigon---What's the instrumentation of the current US tour? Last I heard, they carried a tenor/bass/tuba player. Might have changed, or been eliminated. > Les Miz---Are they still carrying the bass trombone? Still carrying the bass trombone player. > Beauty and the Beast---not the tour, one or two bones? Just bass trombone on Broadway... > Joseph and the Dreamcoat---any trombones? Last I heard, just rock band > JC Superstar---No winds at all right? Right. > Thoroughly Modern Millie---US tour, still two trombones? Yes...just like the guy from Hershey said...60% bass trombone, 40% pretty exposed tuba. Fun to play, fun show to watch from the pit, if you can see. Good luck finding a solotone mute that plays in tune in a bass trombone! Since it's mostly tutti, I just used a harmon, and the conductor was fine with it. Have fun, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:19:22 -0500 From: Lisa & Patrick Bates Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation Played Annie a couple of years ago, two trombones, two trumpets. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:38:37 -0800 From: Elliott Moxley Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation I played the so-called "Student" edition of Les Miz for a local theater company this fall. Contractor knew nothing about the book, and I couldn't get the book ahead of time, never can with this company. So I showed up at the one and only rehearsal with my trusty 78H, which I've always used with this group. Seems that someone forgot to print the word "bass" ahead of trombone on the book Played opening night with my 42B, than got my 72H back from my tuba player buddy, who had borrowed if for one of his gigs. Book has a few low B naturals, so I guess it really is a bass book- Eric & Candice Swanson wrote: > Gang, > > You that play in the pit orchestras in large cities for the national > tours of Broadway shows and other shows of that caliber: I just got a > list of shows that will be playing here in the next few months, and I am > looking for information about the low brass instrumentation for these > shows, so I have some idea which shows I might be working. > > The Full Monty---Does it still have one tenor, one bass trombone? > Urinetown---It has only one trombone, what's the part like? > Miss Saigon---What's the instrumentation of the current US tour? > Les Miz---Are they still carrying the bass trombone? > Yankee Doodle Dandy---New show, any trombones? > The King and I---not a tour, but what's the most current instrumentation? > Annie---not a tour, but how many trombones? > Big River---The Deaf West Theatre production. Anybody played this version? > Beauty and the Beast---not the tour, one or two bones? > Joseph and the Dreamcoat---any trombones? > JC Superstar---No winds at all right? > Thoroughly Modern Millie---US tour, still two trombones? > > You can answer off list if you want. > > Thanks, > > Eric Swanson > Dallas/Fort Worth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:34:33 -0500 From: Mike Loewen Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 Dansatt@AOL.COM wrote: > > Thoroughly Modern Millie---US tour, still two trombones? > Yes...just like the guy from Hershey said...60% bass trombone, 40% > pretty exposed tuba. Fun to play, fun show to watch from the pit, if > you can see. Good luck finding a solotone mute that plays in tune in a > bass trombone! Since it's mostly tutti, I just used a harmon, and the > conductor was fine with it. Don't even bother to look for a solotone for bass bone. I ended up with a Humes and Berg Cleartone (solotone) mute, and wrapped an extra layer of cork around it to get it to fit in the bass bone. Even then, it's almost a half step sharp. The lead bone had an old Shastock solotone mute, which didn't fit in my bass either. It also played 1/2 step sharp in his tenor. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:25:07 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: OTJ Classifieds Update - 2/16/04 The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 6:24 PM CST on February 16, 2004. - - - - - Thank you for using the OTJ Classifieds! - - - - - OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp OTJ Gift Shoppe: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=trombones If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris Waage -- Chris Waage Associate Webmaster, The Online Trombone Journal www. trombone.org Bass Trombonist, Western Missouri British Brass Band Bass Trombonist, Northland Cathedral Orchestra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:35:47 -0500 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: Broadway show instrumentation Matthew> Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat? Is that the Joseph Matthew> mentioned here? If so, that DOES have a trombone/tuba book. I played Matthew> it in college. Nothing too difficult, and some nice (if short) solo Matthew> lines on 'close every door'. Must be a different orchestration than the current one listed with Rodgers & Hammerstein. Double-checked on their website, and that confirms what I'd remembered: 2 reeds, trumpet, horn, guitar, bass, 2 percussion, 2 keyboards. --Harlan ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 15 Feb 2004 to 16 Feb 2004 (#2004-48) ****************************************************************