Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 6 Feb 2004 to 7 Feb 2004 (#2004-39) Date: Sunday, February 8, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 17 messages totalling 822 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Accord Cases (2) 2. Works for Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombone (2) 3. Shires Display at TMEA (4) 4. Comments on slide geometry and other conditions 5. BONETOWN in Texas 6. Dancing trombonist, step aside! (4) 7. WAS Dancing trombonist, step aside! NOW How cool is this LIST? 8. WAS Dancing trombonist, step aside! NOW How cool is this LIST? 9. List get-togethers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:54:37 -0500 From: David Shriver Subject: Accord Cases Does anyone have any experience with Accord cases? http://www.accordcase.com/wind.html I'm looking for a hard case for my Shires bass and the Accord cases look interesting. Clear Skies, David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:04:25 -0600 From: Jay Heltzer Subject: Re: Works for Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombone Quadrabone (working title?) is being written for Charlie to be played in the 06-07 season. Alto, tenor, bass, and contrabass all by the same player (Charlie, of course), being written my Mr. Lindberg. Apparently Mr. Lindberg made the CSO an offer they couldn't refuse...$1. He just wants the piece to be performed. When Charlie told me, I offered to pay it! (side note: obviously my computer doesn't know me very well. Why are you spell checking "CSO"? I think I have typed it more than once) Jay > From: JFBermann@AOL.COM > Reply-To: JFBermann@AOL.COM > Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 01:39:44 EST > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Works for Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombone > > Matt, > The Chicago Symphony has comissioned Christian Lindberg > to write a piece for Charlie Vernon to be performed in the 2006 > season I believe. It was Lindberg's idea to have each movement > feature Vernon on a different instrument. > > Jim Bermann ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:22:11 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur Subject: Re: Accord Cases Hi everybody, I would also be interested to know more about these cases if anyone has experience with them. They look very slick and modern etc. but not sure about the design for holding the instrument itself. I am sure many of us will have assumptions but I would be interested to hear from somebody that has real life experience with the case. Thanks. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra David Shriver wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience with Accord cases? > http://www.accordcase.com/wind.html > > I'm looking for a hard case for my Shires bass and the Accord cases look > interesting. > > Clear Skies, > David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:09:08 -0600 From: Matt & Abby Erickson Subject: Shires Display at TMEA For those of you going to the San Antonio TMEA conention: Upcoming (Feb 12-14) Exhibit of S.E. Shires Trombones: =20 Innova Brass, Inc. and Sheridan Brass will exhibit new Shires trombones = at the TMEA (Texas Music Educator's Association) convention in San = Antonio, TX, Feb. 12-14. Literally hundreds of custom Shires = combinations will be there. Mike Corrigan, a "Slide Specialist" from = the Shires factory will also be at the exhibit! =20 The new Innova Brass BoneZillaTM bass slide trombone and Tu-BoneTM BBb = bass valve trombone will be featured. BoneZillaTM and Tu-BoneTM (patents = and tradmarks pending by Innova Brass, Inc.) are manufactured (under = license) for Innova Brass by the S.E. Shires Co. Tu-BoneTM is a double B-flat (BBb) bass valve trombone which enables = tuba and euphonium players to "double" as bass trombonists. It puts = easy playing, powerful bass trombone sound in the hands of low brass = valve players. BBb Tubists may play it immediately with no new learning = required. An important application of Tu-BoneTM will be found in middle = school, high school, and small college jazz bands, whenever a strong = bass slide trombonist cannot be recruited. In this case, the Tu-BoneTM = offers tuba and euphonium players a jazz band opportunity that they = would not otherwise have. =20 Two Shires trombone exhibits will occur Feb 12-14! The first is a small = TMEA exhibit by Innova Brass, which will share space with the Altieri = Instrument Bags booth (TMEA booth #5082 in the San Antonio convention = center.) The second much larger exhibit will be kitty-corner across the = street from the TMEA convention center in the Fairmount Hotel (401 South = Alamo Street). It will be in the "Director's Room", basement floor of = the hotel. Conference registration is required to visit the TMEA Innova = Brass/Altieri booth (#5082), but not for the larger Fairmount Hotel = exhibit. Get free coffee and a BoneZillaTM button at the Fairmount! =20 The Fairmount Hotel exhibit is open from 10am - 6pm Feb. 12, 13 and 10am = - 3 pm Feb. 14. It will also be open evening hours by appointment only = on Feb. 12 and 13. (Call (205) 541-3258 or (402) 680-3799 for an = evening appointment.) =20 The TMEA convention center exhibit (#5082) is open 9am-5:30pm Feb.12, = 10am-6pm Feb.13, and 10am-3pm Feb.14. =20 =20 Don't miss this opportunity to test BoneZillaTM, Tu-BoneTM and a variety = of optimized custom Shires Trombones selected especially for you by our = team of Innova Brass experts. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:42:25 -0800 From: Frank Doting Subject: Comments on slide geometry and other conditions My record keeping of trombone slide data has now reached a total of 30 with some known to be in original (new and used) condition. Several had traces of being repaired in the past. That many more passed through my hands before I started logging the mechanical details of slides in a systematic way. Rather than bore those on the list with columns of data, I have decided to simply outline what I have found in summary form with comments. Some definitions will be necessary. The list immediately below is what I consider to be basic trombone slide design geometry; another list points out items that are sub-tier to basic geometry. 1) Clearance between inner tube stockings and the outer slide tubes - 8 thousandths of an inch as an average. There was some evidence that the high-end instruments are built to smaller clearances where the smallest measured was 3 (note that all measurements will be noted in thousandths). 2) Difference between the inner tube and stocking diameters - an average of 10, student models were larger and high-end assemblies were less. 3) Parallelism of the tubes of the outer hand slide assembly. This compares the center to center width of the tubes at the hand brace and crook ends of the hand slide assembly using the crook end as the reference. At first I thought this would be a sensitive item however I found some slides with parallelism values of up to 30 and the action was still quite good. Most of the assemblies were more in the category of 10 or less. 4) Centering compares the center to center width of the inner fork tubes at the brace end with the width of the outer tubes at the crook end. Some discussion now follows. Using the crook tube width as the reference for both the parallelism and centering measurements has a purpose. If for example these measurements are +5 and +7 respectively, then it is known that the inner and outer tube widths are matched within 2 thousandths at the top end - a very good situation! It has been my observation that as long as these measurements are matched within 7 or so, the slide action can be very good if other conditions are also in control. One might wonder why parallelism could be larger yet the slide action is still possibly quite good. The answer is simple; the inner fork has the flexibility to accommodate the narrow or wide condition at the crook end. My Bach 6 had a parallelism/centering offset of -28 and -35 respectively yet the action was smooth and light. I corrected this to +4/-1 and the action was improved just slightly. Other conditions that should be in control: 1) Dents in the inner/outer tubes. 2) Twists in the inner/outer tubes. 3) Bends and bows in the inner/outer tubes. 4) Inner/outer clearances. a) bad parts b) lubrication build-up c) oxidation/calcium build-up 5) Out of round tubes (sometimes found on stocking ends). 6) Stocking axis alignment (on the same axis as the rest of the tube). 7) Lubrication (most use too much, be certain to remove the old lube first) Getting all of these parameters under control is no small feat! Measuring some of these features is a challenge in itself. I have spent hours measuring some slides over and over just to determine my repeatability. Special V-block tools were fabricated to accurately measure the tube widths. If you have a repair craftsman (note I do not use the word technician) that knows how to make a slide really perform, praise him and do everything to keep him as a friend. Repairing a damaged or improperly built trombone slide is NOT an easy task! There is a lot more to this story however it is mostly of interest to those who do the repair. My analysis of stocking axis alignment, for example, led me to the challenge of how to measure this VERY small error angle (on the order of a tenth of a degree). I would rather discuss these subjects on a one-on-one situation rather than promote sleepiness in the majority of the list members. Regards, Grass Valley Frank ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:45:59 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: BONETOWN in Texas For those of you in Texas, please try to support trombone playing/education by attending a BONETOWN clinic/concert in your area. I'm sorry that I do not have a complete itinerary to post... but for those in the Houston area and for those going to the upcoming Texas Music Educators Association convention in San Antonio... Michael Davis - New York trombonist; toured and recorded with Frank Sinatra, the Rolling Stones, and appeared on CD with the bands of Buddy Rich and Bob Mintzer among others. Bill Reichenbach - L.A. bass trombonist; if you have been to the movies lately, you have no doubt heard the amazing sound of B.R.! This is an event not to be missed! Those of us in education know that the key to successful teaching is MOTIVATION. And Bonetown will definitely motivate your kids toward better fundamentals and daily practice habits. Sunday - Houston (Alvin Lockhart, host) Cost, $10 Alvin Lockhart Monday - Beaumont, TX (Wayne Dyess, host) Cost, FREE. 4:30-6:30 p.m. LU Recital Hall. Wayne Dyess Participants are encouraged to bring instruments, as we all will play with BONETOWN at some point. TMEA -- consult the TMEA website for date and times. I believe the site is http://www.tmea.org I apologize for not having more details handy... but if you know about it, you should be able to find out what you need to know. My server wouldn't let me online to the web so I could do the search myself. Argh! WD This tour is being sponsored by United Musical Instruments and local music stores. Swicegood Music in Beaumont; H&H in Houston. -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:47:27 -0800 From: Michele L Tune Subject: Re: Dancing trombonist, step aside! Where is that? Somewhere in Europe seemingly... crt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Tall" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Dancing trombonist, step aside! > Would this guy count as a percussionist? > > http://www.hugi.is/hahradi/bigboxes.php?box_id=51208&f_id=681 > > > > > Dave Tall > Bass Trombonist > New Mexico Symphony > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:42:11 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Shires Display at TMEA Matt & Abby Erickson wrote: > The new Innova Brass BoneZillaTM bass slide trombone and Tu-BoneTM BBb bass valve trombone will be featured. BoneZillaTM and Tu-BoneTM (patents and tradmarks pending by Innova Brass, Inc.) are manufactured (under license) for Innova Brass by the S.E. Shires Co. > > > > Matt, Anywhere we can see pictures of these animals? I can't make it to San Antonio. Eric Swanson > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:43:49 -0500 From: "Peter W. Schroth" Subject: Re: Dancing trombonist, step aside! The written language is Icelandic, but he is speaking French. Peter W. Schroth Michele L Tune (or Chris, more likely) wrote: > > Where is that? Somewhere in Europe seemingly... > > crt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:59:41 -0800 From: Galen McQuarrie Subject: Re: Dancing trombonist, step aside! I think it's Israel. "dot 'is' " Galen McQuarrie -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Michele L Tune Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:47 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Dancing trombonist, step aside! Where is that? Somewhere in Europe seemingly... crt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Tall" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Dancing trombonist, step aside! > Would this guy count as a percussionist? > > http://www.hugi.is/hahradi/bigboxes.php?box_id=51208&f_id=681 > > > > > Dave Tall > Bass Trombonist > New Mexico Symphony > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:02:39 -0800 From: Michele L Tune Subject: Re: WAS Dancing trombonist, step aside! NOW How cool is this LIST? I'm impressed with how cool this group is. . .I have only to ask and almost invariably get a real good answer. Also, I see so many of the same folks on here year after year. . .I must have seen some for close to ten years now. . . I think it would be cool to arrange a get-together of the LIST members in some advantageous location (e.g. one of the major Trombone days like those sponsored by the ITA). I'd be thrilled to finally get together and tip a few with Dave Tall, Sabutin, the various Franks (Doting, Darmiento, etc.) Izzo, and this fine, fine group of trombonists. We could certainly get a good trombone ensemble together and show 'em a thing or two! Chris Tune - Los Angeles PS-Yes, I'm using Michele's computer so I guess now she is an "honorary trombonist". crt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W. Schroth" To: "Michele L Tune" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Dancing trombonist, step aside! > The written language is Icelandic, but he is speaking > French. > > Peter W. Schroth > > Michele L Tune (or Chris, more likely) wrote: > > > > Where is that? Somewhere in Europe seemingly... > > > > crt > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:33:06 -0500 From: "Peter W. Schroth" Subject: Re: Dancing trombonist, step aside! Israel is .il. Iceland is .is. The complete list is here: http://www.iana.org/cctld/cctld-whois.htm Galen McQuarrie wrote: > > I think it's Israel. "dot 'is' " > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:34:42 -0600 From: Matt & Abby Erickson Subject: Re: Shires Display at TMEA Eric- I am glad you asked, however, I think I should give you some background information on how these instruments have come into being. Innova Brass is still in its "growing stages." The company was started about a year ago to expand the resources (i.e. instruments) for school band directors. Steve Shires and his company have been the manufacturers of the Innova products. Shires and Innova have also been working closely to develop other instruments and accessories for trombonists, band directors, and other brass players. In the coming months, you should see more growth in the Innova product line with help from the Shires factory. The "BoneZilla", as it is called, is a Bass Trombone with slightly larger bore progressions than a typical bass trombone. This instrument was a "test dummy" for the Tu-Bone(TM) instrument (see below). Since a bass trombone is less expensive to build than a 4 valved instrument, Innova asked Shires to build a few bass trombones from his current designs with the following specs: Dual bore slide: .578/.594 bore light weight nickel Double Inline Rotors: .625 bore B and C Yellow Tuning Slides Standard 10.5 inch bass bells (various models) To our surprise, the Big Bass exceeded our expectations, both in sound and how it blows. I know there are some people who will flame a me for saying this, but the larger bored bass trombone played very well in many different situations. Due to the manufacturing success of the Big Bass, Innova decided to put this instrument on the market. If you look at Matt Guilford's website, I believe he is playing a "BoneZilla" at Steve's factory and with the NSO and Iraqi trombones The "BoneZilla" will begin making the rounds at the various conventions and festivals. Please give the horn a blow if you get a chance and feel free to give us any feedback. Pictures (not great quality) are also available on Innova's website of the Big Bass with Axial Flow valves. www.innovabrass.com The Tu-Bone is a 4 valved rotary BB-flat instrument, similar in design to a cimbasso. The instrument is can be played with either a tuba or bass trombone mouthpiece and utilizes a 10.5 inch Shires Bass Trombone bell. The 4 rotors and valve tubing are placed between the legs of the player with the bell coming over the player's left shoulder. The bore progression of the Tu-Bone is based on the "BoneZilla", but with different lengths of specific bores. The Tu-Bone was built with the Tubist in mind, specifically a high schooler. I have not personally played the Tu-Bone. but all reports from the Shires factory have been positive. Unfortunately, there are no pictures of this instrument at this time. Please check back in a few months at the Innova Brass website. Innova Brass is also a authorized S.E. Shires retailer and have set up dealers in Denver CO, Chicago IL, Birmingham AL, and Omaha NE . Please see the Shires website for more details on the dealers nearest you. I am a dealer and would be glad to speak with anyone about the purchase or trial of a Shires trombone or other Innova Brass products. Regards, Matt Erickson > > > Matt, > > Anywhere we can see pictures of these animals? I can't make it to San > Antonio. > > Eric Swanson > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:56:41 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: Works for Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombone Jay, --- Jay Heltzer wrote: > Quadrabone (working title?) is being written for > Charlie to be played in the > 06-07 season. Alto, tenor, bass, and contrabass all > by the same player > (Charlie, of course), MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I want this piece when Charlie's done with it!!!!!!!!! I wonder if Lindberg would add a coda for Sopranino or Picc? :-) Tom being written my Mr. Lindberg. > Apparently Mr. > Lindberg made the CSO an offer they couldn't > refuse...$1. He just wants the > piece to be performed. When Charlie told me, I > offered to pay it! > ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:03:24 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: Shires Display at TMEA Matt & all, > I think this is mis-named. This sounds like a valved CONTRABASS Trombone or a BBb Cembasso. Any other opinions? Tom Owner of a slided BBb Contra. > > > The new Innova Brass BoneZillaTM bass slide > trombone and Tu-BoneTM BBb bass valve trombone will > be featured. BoneZillaTM and Tu-BoneTM (patents and > tradmarks pending by Innova Brass, Inc.) are > manufactured (under license) for Innova Brass by the > S.E. Shires Co. > > > > Tu-BoneTM is a double B-flat (BBb) bass valve > trombone which enables tuba and euphonium players to > "double" as bass trombonists. It puts easy playing, > powerful bass trombone sound in the hands of low > brass valve players. BBb Tubists may play it > immediately with no new learning required. An > important application of Tu-BoneTM will be found in > middle school, high school, and small college jazz > bands, whenever a strong bass slide trombonist > cannot be recruited. In this case, the Tu-BoneTM > offers tuba and euphonium players a jazz band > opportunity that they would not otherwise have. > > > > Two Shires trombone exhibits will occur Feb 12-14! > The first is a small TMEA exhibit by Innova Brass, > which will share space with the Altieri Instrument > Bags booth (TMEA booth #5082 in the San Antonio > convention center.) The second much larger exhibit > will be kitty-corner across the street from the TMEA > convention center in the Fairmount Hotel (401 South > Alamo Street). It will be in the "Director's Room", > basement floor of the hotel. Conference registration > is required to visit the TMEA Innova Brass/Altieri > booth (#5082), but not for the larger Fairmount > Hotel exhibit. Get free coffee and a BoneZillaTM > button at the Fairmount! > > > > The Fairmount Hotel exhibit is open from 10am - 6pm > Feb. 12, 13 and 10am - 3 pm Feb. 14. It will also > be open evening hours by appointment only on Feb. > 12 and 13. (Call (205) 541-3258 or (402) 680-3799 > for an evening appointment.) > > > > The TMEA convention center exhibit (#5082) is open > 9am-5:30pm Feb.12, 10am-6pm Feb.13, and 10am-3pm > Feb.14. > > > > Don't miss this opportunity to test BoneZillaTM, > Tu-BoneTM and a variety of optimized custom Shires > Trombones selected especially for you by our team of > Innova Brass experts. ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:08:42 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: WAS Dancing trombonist, step aside! NOW How cool is this LIST? Michele, > I think it would be cool to arrange a get-together > of the LIST members in > some advantageous location (e.g. one of the major > Trombone days like those > sponsored by the ITA). > Many of us attend the ITF. (This year at Ithaca, NY 6/15-23) > I'd be thrilled to finally get together and tip a > few with Dave Tall, > Sabutin, the various Franks (Doting, Darmiento, > etc.) Izzo, Why, thank you. How about going to Ithaca in June? and this fine, > fine group of trombonists. We could certainly get a > good trombone ensemble > together and show 'em a thing or two! > And we do! > Chris Tune - Los Angeles > > PS-Yes, I'm using Michele's computer so I guess now > she is an "honorary > trombonist". > Cool. Tom ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:25:45 -0700 From: Dave Tall Subject: List get-togethers Chris, At the ITF in Boulder, CO several years ago, I arranged a Trombone-L dinner. I solicited through the list, got reservations at a local restaraunt for one evening, and I believe 20+ people showed up. I think there was also an official or unofficial marking on the ITF badge that year to indicate that one was a Trombone-L subscriber. It was certainly fun meeting people in person and chewing the fat (and the Italian food, in that case) with everyone. Attendance varied from college students to university teachers to freelancers to retired amateurs...just like the list membership itself. The list membership is so geographically widespread that there will likely never be a time when most of us are all in one place, but things like the ITF, Midwest Band/Orchestra clinic, TMEA festival, Eastern trombone workshop, etc. are times when a few people may be in the same place. I don't know yet whether I'll be able to attend the ITF this year (at least it's in June this year, when I have some time off). I'm almost always working during ETW. Various members have different schedules; when something comes up where you plan to attend and you think others will, drop a line to the list and organize something. The dinner in Boulder wasn't official either for the list or for the ITF; I just decided it would be fun to do. Anyone who wants to organize something similar should just go ahead and do it! Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 6 Feb 2004 to 7 Feb 2004 (#2004-39) **************************************************************