Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 29 Jan 2004 to 30 Jan 2004 (#2004-31) Date: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 26 messages totalling 1467 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. A little Friday humor 2. Noisy F-attachment (9) 3. Trombone writing in Janacek (7) 4. Recital 2/4 5. Cosmic Bb (from the New York Times 1/30/04) 6. Noisy F-attachment --Clarify #2 (2) 7. DOW Vacuum Grease, was Noisy F-attachment 8. Works for Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombone (2) 9. Please update your contact information (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:18:59 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: A little Friday humor A person is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes that they are lost. They reduce the height and spot a person on the ground below. They lower the balloon further and shout, "Excuse me. Can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am." The person below says, "Yes, you are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees North latitude and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude." "You must be a band leader," says the balloonist. "I am," replies the person below, "how did you know?" "Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have not idea what to make of you information, and the fact is, I am still lost." The person below says, "You must be a booking agent". "I am," replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?" "Well," say the person below, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise that you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is, you are in exactly the same position as you were before we met, but now it is somehow my fault." -- Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal "A Website for Trombonists" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:14:33 -0500 From: Lisa & Patrick Bates Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment If it's the same linkage as my old 42B, and your'e sure it's not the bumpers, just pull it apart, put some grease on the balls, and put it back together. Use whatever you're using in the tuning slides. I use Superlube from Permatex, available at autoparts stores or tool suppliers. It's cheap, clear to white, doesn't stain or go hard. No smell either! Patrick Bates Bass bone Chatham Concert Band & Primitive Roots Jazz Band > My vintage (any horn older than 25 years is vintage, right?) Bach 36B > that dates from the mid-70's has served me well these many years. > However, it has developed quite a clank in the f-attachment when the > trigger is depressed and released. I am pretty sure that the noise is > coming from the metal ball-and-socket linkage and would like some advice > on how to quiet this noise. I am not interested in replacing the valve, > just in reducing the 'clankety-clank'. Suggestions? > > Bob Woodard > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:31:48 -0700 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment What Patrick said, but ... After lubing the ball and socket, you need to adjust the linkage. Tighten the cap nut (fingers on the lever, a screwdriver on the rotor axle) until the joint binds then back off 1/8 of a turn. Tighten the locknut. That's all it takes. I use Dow vacuum grease on mine -- a Teflon-impregnated silicone grease. It is nonreactive, nontoxic and not generally available unless you have a friend in a chemistry lab. Dennis ------------------------------------- If it's the same linkage as my old 42B, and your'e sure it's not the bumpers, just pull it apart, put some grease on the balls, and put it back together. Use whatever you're using in the tuning slides. I use Superlube from Permatex, available at autoparts stores or tool suppliers. It's cheap, clear to white, doesn't stain or go hard. No smell either! Patrick Bates Bass bone Chatham Concert Band & Primitive Roots Jazz Band > My vintage (any horn older than 25 years is vintage, right?) Bach 36B > that dates from the mid-70's has served me well these many years. > However, it has developed quite a clank in the f-attachment when the > trigger is depressed and released. I am pretty sure that the noise is > coming from the metal ball-and-socket linkage and would like some advice > on how to quiet this noise. I am not interested in replacing the valve, > just in reducing the 'clankety-clank'. Suggestions? > > Bob Woodard > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:09:11 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Trombone writing in Janacek I've had a couple of gigs recently where I've played Janacek for the first time. Whilst playing bass my curiosity has been raised by the part my neighbour on 2nd has to play. In the Sinfonietta he had to play a series of rapid quavers alternating Bb and Cb. On an open tenor this would be 1st to 7th. At the speed required this would, at best, look like a fairground act. In The Cunning Little Vixen, which we're playing tomorrow night, the 2nd part is written down to Db and B below the bass stave at one point. The question this raises in my mind is: What equipment were Czech trombonists using in the 1920s? Is it possible that they played the second part on bass, or did they have F triggers in Czechoslovakia that far back. The bass part goes down to pedal A and way down to pedal Eb in Vixen, neither of which notes is available on the F bass used in Germany. (Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.) Keith in Bb/F/D --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.574 / Virus Database: 364 - Release Date: 29/01/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:42:07 -0000 From: Edward Solomon Subject: Re: Trombone writing in Janacek > The question this raises in my mind is: What equipment were > Czech trombonists using in the 1920s? Is it possible that > they played the second part on bass, or did they have F > triggers in Czechoslovakia that far back. As far as I know, the Czechs have always been fond of the valve trombone and it wouldn't therefore be in the least bit surprising to know that they were still using valve trombones in the 1920s. Provided with a fourth valve, the valve trombone can quite easily cover the parts written for it by Janacek. However, whilst we do know that they were using valve trombones at the time of Dvorak, it is clear that by the turn of the 20th century, they were teaching the slide instrument at the Prague conservatoire, so it is quite likely that the trombonists were playing on slide instruments. Equipped with a rotary valve actuated F attachment, the 2nd and 3rd trombonists can quite easily cover the parts in the Sinfonietta. It is worth knowing, too, that Dvorak wrote as low as B flat for the (F) bass valve trombone in the Stabat Mater, so clearly the bass trombone must have had a fourth valve to facilitate low passage work. This chart may help to settle some of the nagging doubts about slide/valve trombone use in that part of the world. Professors of Trombone at the Prague Conservatoire of Music, 1826-present Name Type of trombone taught Years taught Josef KAIL valve trombone 1826-1867 August BOLZE slide trombone 1860-1863 Aruosl TESKE slide trombone 1864-1874 V‡clav SMITA valve and slide trombone 1874-1903 Josef HILMER slide trombone only 1903-1934 Anton’n KOULA slide trombone 1934-1938 Jaroslav SIMSA slide trombone 1938-1950/1952 Jaroslav U©çK slide trombone 1940-1956 Miloslav HEJDA slide trombone 1956-1986 Josef STçDNêK slide trombone [Unknown] Jaroslav VêTEK slide trombone [Unknown] Jolen’k PULEC slide trombone [Unknown] Jaron’n HAVEL slide trombone 1986-1989 Mastinvic PELC slide trombone [Unknown] Jin JANDêK slide trombone 1988-1989 Jon SAILER slide trombone [Unknown] Josef ©IMEK slide trombone 1986- V‡clav FEREBAUER slide trombone 1990- __________________________________________ Edward Solomon British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:46:47 -0700 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: Trombone writing in Janacek >I've had a couple of gigs recently where I've played Janacek for the first >time. Whilst playing bass my curiosity has been raised by the part my >neighbour on 2nd has to play. >In the Sinfonietta he had to play a series of rapid quavers alternating Bb >and Cb. On an open tenor this would be 1st to 7th. At the speed required >this would, at best, look like a fairground act. >In The Cunning Little Vixen, which we're playing tomorrow night, the 2nd >part is written down to Db and B below the bass stave at one point. >The question this raises in my mind is: What equipment were Czech >trombonists using in the 1920s? Is it possible that they played the second >part on bass, or did they have F triggers in Czechoslovakia that far back. >The bass part goes down to pedal A and way down to pedal Eb in Vixen, >neither of which notes is available on the F bass used in Germany. The F-attachment came into use in the mid-19th Century. Wagner wrote for what he called a tenor-bass posaune, a large bore tenor with an F-side. The David Concertino was written for a tenor-bass instrument as well. Stravinsky wrote a part in L'Histoire du Soldat that is not playable on a Bb instrument. Milhaud's Creation du Monde has glisses that are impossible on a Bb instrument but playable on a Bb/F instrument. Composers knew of the instrument, knew its capabilities and wrote for it. I think it probable that Czech orchestral trombonists were using Bb/F instruments in the 20s. The histories I've seen suggest that the F-bass (quart posaune) and Eb bass (quint posaune) were extinct in Germany by the late 19th Century. The F-bass at least apparently survived into the early 20th C in central Europe. I think if you check, though, a pedal Eb is available on either of those instruments. The F-bass gives out between low B to pedal F, the Eb bass between low A to pedal Eb. With their long slides and handles, the instruments are unwieldy (to say the least). Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:02:20 -0700 From: Al MacDonald Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment Not sure why you say that Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease is "not generally available". I found at least three suppliers with a quick search. Best price was $19.50 for a 5 oz. tube at http://www.datacompscientific.com/Vac_Components/VC_Other1.PDF (first price I found was $31.50. Ouch.) btw, this is the stuff that Doug Yeo recommends for tuning slides. It works well for that application, and if my valves clanked I would use it on the linkages as well. The best answer to clanking valves is to convert to a plastic linkage, as has been mentioned. I won't bother the list with a lecture on the superiority of string... Al MacDonald DC> What Patrick said, but ... DC> After lubing the ball and socket, you need to adjust the linkage. Tighten DC> the cap nut (fingers on the lever, a screwdriver on the rotor axle) until DC> the joint binds then back off 1/8 of a turn. Tighten the locknut. That's DC> all it takes. I use Dow vacuum grease on mine -- a Teflon-impregnated DC> silicone grease. It is nonreactive, nontoxic and not generally available DC> unless you have a friend in a chemistry lab. DC> Dennis DC> ------------------------------------- DC> If it's the same linkage as my old 42B, and your'e sure it's not the DC> bumpers, just pull it apart, put some grease on the balls, and put it back DC> together. Use whatever you're using in the tuning slides. I use Superlube DC> from Permatex, available at autoparts stores or tool suppliers. It's cheap, DC> clear to white, doesn't stain or go hard. No smell either! DC> Patrick Bates DC> Bass bone DC> Chatham Concert Band & DC> Primitive Roots Jazz Band >> My vintage (any horn older than 25 years is vintage, right?) Bach 36B >> that dates from the mid-70's has served me well these many years. >> However, it has developed quite a clank in the f-attachment when the >> trigger is depressed and released. I am pretty sure that the noise is >> coming from the metal ball-and-socket linkage and would like some advice >> on how to quiet this noise. I am not interested in replacing the valve, >> just in reducing the 'clankety-clank'. Suggestions? >> >> Bob Woodard >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:01:40 -0500 From: Raymond Horton Subject: Re: Trombone writing in Janacek According to Ken Shifrin (see http://www.trombone-society.org.uk/shifrin/ , see chapter 5) , valve trombones held tight in Bohemia into the 20th century. The slide trombone was not taught seriously in the Prague Conservatory until 1903. It seems quite plausible to me that Janacek had valve trombones in mind, just as did Dvorak before him. The solo in the Sinfonietta is much more idiomatic on valves than slide, for certain. Ken Shifrin told me that Dvorak's bass trombone was a four-valve instrument in Bb. I wonder if the low valve ranges in the tenors (You didn't even mention the low Bs in the 2nd AND 1st in the Sinfonietta!) meant that Janacek could have had that 4 valve Bb instrument (obviously with some non-standard tuning necessary for a low B) in mind for all four trombones in the Sinfonietta. There was supposed to be a new edition of the Sinfonietta coming out some time - has anybody seen it? One odd thing in the old edition - I'm convinced that Janacek meant for the 4th trombone and tuba to be a double - they only play simultaneously at one place, when they triple the bass line with the 3rd trombone. Also, I've had arguments about the "tenor tuba" parts in the first movement - I'm sure they are meant to be Wagner tuba, played by two of the horn players, because when they return in the finale there are only two horn parts in the score. But others argue they should be euphoniums because it is a town band. I wonder if the new edition will clear some of this stuff up. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist Louisville Orchestra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:09 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Trombone writing in Janacek > I've had a couple of gigs recently where I've played Janacek for the first > time. Whilst playing bass my curiosity has been raised by the part my > neighbour on 2nd has to play. > > In the Sinfonietta he had to play a series of rapid quavers alternating Bb > and Cb. On an open tenor this would be 1st to 7th. At the speed required > this would, at best, look like a fairground act. > > In The Cunning Little Vixen, which we're playing tomorrow night, the 2nd > part is written down to Db and B below the bass stave at one point. > > The question this raises in my mind is: What equipment were Czech > trombonists using in the 1920s? Is it possible that they played the second > part on bass, or did they have F triggers in Czechoslovakia that far back. > > The bass part goes down to pedal A and way down to pedal Eb in Vixen, > neither of which notes is available on the F bass used in Germany. > > (Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.) > > Keith in Bb/F/D > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.574 / Virus Database: 364 - Release Date: 29/01/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:30:23 -0700 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment Not sure why you say that Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease is "not generally available". I found at least three suppliers with a quick search. Best price was $19.50 for a 5 oz. tube at http://www.datacompscientific.com/Vac_Components/VC_Other1.PDF (first price I found was $31.50. Ouch.) btw, this is the stuff that Doug Yeo recommends for tuning slides. It works well for that application, and if my valves clanked I would use it on the linkages as well. The best answer to clanking valves is to convert to a plastic linkage, as has been mentioned. I won't bother the list with a lecture on the superiority of string... Al MacDonald ------------------------------- Al: Because anything I have to order meets my definition of not generally available. The last time I looked, the suppliers didn't sell it by the tube, but by case lots. A 5 oz tube will last a very long time, and a case of the stuff? The sun will be a cold cinder before a trombonist could use a case of it. I'm still working on the tube I got in the auld days when I was a biology undergrad student. It's about empty, but 26 years isn't too bad. I use it for tuning slides, too. The stuff lasts forever. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:39:20 -0500 From: John Burton Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment String may be superior, but have you ever tried to engineer modifying a Bach 50B to string? Gads! Two pulleys and a block and tackle I'm thinking. I too suffer from noisy linkage, and have found a solution that works for me was to simply take apart, clean and reassemble the linkage bits and pieces once or twice a month. Takes me 10 or 15 minutes, and sure is better than having your F trigger disassemble itself during a concert!! The plastic (nylon) linkage intrigues me. Osmun offers them for $60/valve .. Gotta send your bell section in if you're not local tho. According to Osmun, it ain't a drop-in job. Naturally your mileage may vary. ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= john burton Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra South Charleston, West Virginia > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Dennis Clason > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:30 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Noisy F-attachment > > > Not sure why you say that Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease is > "not generally available". I found at least three suppliers > with a quick search. Best price was $19.50 for a 5 oz. tube > at http://www.datacompscientific.com/Vac_Components/VC_Other1.PDF > > (first price I found was $31.50. Ouch.) > > btw, this is the stuff that Doug Yeo recommends for tuning > slides. It works well for that application, and if my valves > clanked I would use it on the linkages as well. > > The best answer to clanking valves is to convert to a plastic > linkage, as has been mentioned. I won't bother the list with > a lecture on the superiority of string... > > Al MacDonald > > ------------------------------- > > Al: > > Because anything I have to order meets my definition of not > generally available. The last time I looked, the suppliers > didn't sell it by the tube, but by case lots. A 5 oz tube > will last a very long time, and a case of the stuff? The sun > will be a cold cinder before a trombonist could use a case of it. > > I'm still working on the tube I got in the auld days when I > was a biology undergrad student. It's about empty, but 26 > years isn't too bad. I use it for tuning slides, too. The > stuff lasts forever. > > Dennis > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:53:48 -0000 From: David Musgrove Subject: Re: Trombone writing in Janacek My understanding was always that the fourth trombone part in Sinfonietta was simply a copyist's error, and that Janacek wanted three trombones and tuba. The old edition with this part had either tuba or fourth trombone in each of the five movements, and they never played together. The piece ended with the fourth trombone blaring out low Ds or D flats at the bottom of a brass section of over twenty, whilst the tuba player disappeared to get the beers in (or whatever tuba players do at the ends of concerts). The fourth part was great fun to play, but it seems pretty clear that it is a tuba part (you can try and sound as big as you like playing the low D flat and pedal G flat entry, but it will only ever sound really right on a tuba). David Musgrove Bass Trombone -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Raymond Horton Sent: 30 January 2004 18:02 To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone writing in Janacek According to Ken Shifrin (see http://www.trombone-society.org.uk/shifrin/ , see chapter 5) , valve trombones held tight in Bohemia into the 20th century. The slide trombone was not taught seriously in the Prague Conservatory until 1903. It seems quite plausible to me that Janacek had valve trombones in mind, just as did Dvorak before him. The solo in the Sinfonietta is much more idiomatic on valves than slide, for certain. Ken Shifrin told me that Dvorak's bass trombone was a four-valve instrument in Bb. I wonder if the low valve ranges in the tenors (You didn't even mention the low Bs in the 2nd AND 1st in the Sinfonietta!) meant that Janacek could have had that 4 valve Bb instrument (obviously with some non-standard tuning necessary for a low B) in mind for all four trombones in the Sinfonietta. There was supposed to be a new edition of the Sinfonietta coming out some time - has anybody seen it? One odd thing in the old edition - I'm convinced that Janacek meant for the 4th trombone and tuba to be a double - they only play simultaneously at one place, when they triple the bass line with the 3rd trombone. Also, I've had arguments about the "tenor tuba" parts in the first movement - I'm sure they are meant to be Wagner tuba, played by two of the horn players, because when they return in the finale there are only two horn parts in the score. But others argue they should be euphoniums because it is a town band. I wonder if the new edition will clear some of this stuff up. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist Louisville Orchestra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:09 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Trombone writing in Janacek > I've had a couple of gigs recently where I've played Janacek for the first > time. Whilst playing bass my curiosity has been raised by the part my > neighbour on 2nd has to play. > > In the Sinfonietta he had to play a series of rapid quavers alternating Bb > and Cb. On an open tenor this would be 1st to 7th. At the speed required > this would, at best, look like a fairground act. > > In The Cunning Little Vixen, which we're playing tomorrow night, the 2nd > part is written down to Db and B below the bass stave at one point. > > The question this raises in my mind is: What equipment were Czech > trombonists using in the 1920s? Is it possible that they played the second > part on bass, or did they have F triggers in Czechoslovakia that far back. > > The bass part goes down to pedal A and way down to pedal Eb in Vixen, > neither of which notes is available on the F bass used in Germany. > > (Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.) > > Keith in Bb/F/D > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.574 / Virus Database: 364 - Release Date: 29/01/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:23:53 -0500 From: Lisa & Patrick Bates Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al MacDonald" Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Noisy F-attachment > Not sure why you say that Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease is "not > generally available". I found at least three suppliers with a quick > search. Best price was $19.50 for a 5 oz. tube at > http://www.datacompscientific.com/Vac_Components/VC_Other1.PDF > > (first price I found was $31.50. Ouch.) I use Dow vacuum grease on mine -- a Teflon-impregnated silicone grease. It is nonreactive, nontoxic and not generally available unless you have a friend in a chemistry lab. Dennis I use Superlube from Permatex, available at autoparts stores or tool suppliers. It's cheap, clear to white, doesn't stain or go hard. No smell either! The package is out in the car, but if I remember right, it's a silicon grease with Teflon, food grade. I paid about 6 bucks Canadian (4 US) for a 4 ounce tube at Fastenal, an industrial nut , bolt, etc. supplier we deal with at my day job. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:13:47 -0700 From: Al MacDonald Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment I bought a single tube from a supplier about three years ago, although you're right that some suppliers only sell case lots. Yes, it does last a very long time. Dow says it has a shelf life of five years, but I'm guessing that fifty is closer to reality for our applications. Al DC> Not sure why you say that Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease is "not DC> generally available". I found at least three suppliers with a quick DC> search. Best price was $19.50 for a 5 oz. tube at DC> http://www.datacompscientific.com/Vac_Components/VC_Other1.PDF DC> (first price I found was $31.50. Ouch.) DC> btw, this is the stuff that Doug Yeo recommends for tuning slides. It DC> works well for that application, and if my valves clanked I would use DC> it on the linkages as well. DC> The best answer to clanking valves is to convert to a plastic linkage, DC> as has been mentioned. I won't bother the list with a lecture on the DC> superiority of string... DC> Al MacDonald DC> ------------------------------- DC> Al: DC> Because anything I have to order meets my definition of not generally DC> available. The last time I looked, the suppliers didn't sell it by the DC> tube, but by case lots. A 5 oz tube will last a very long time, and a case DC> of the stuff? The sun will be a cold cinder before a trombonist could use a DC> case of it. DC> I'm still working on the tube I got in the auld days when I was a biology DC> undergrad student. It's about empty, but 26 years isn't too bad. I use it DC> for tuning slides, too. The stuff lasts forever. DC> Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:10:53 -0000 From: Edward Solomon Subject: Re: Trombone writing in Janacek > My understanding was always that the fourth trombone part in > Sinfonietta was simply a copyist's error, and that Janacek > wanted three trombones and tuba. This is my understanding, too. Having seen the recent Eulenberg edition of the score, the foreword by, if I remember correctly, Norman Del Mar explains the erroneous fourth trombone part and confirms Janacek's original intention to use three trombones and tuba, which it would seem is a much better "fit" considering his other works. I am not aware of any of his works which set a precedent by using four trombones, nor of any subsequent ones either. In fact, as a rule Slavonic composers have always stuck with tried and tested means: either three trombones or three trombones and tuba. It is the Germans and Austrians who indulged in larger trombone sections. __________________________________________ Edward Solomon British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:23:49 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Recital 2/4 I will be performing Romance by William Grant Still (transcribed for trombone by Doug Yeo) in a recital of music by African-American = Composers at Xavier University in New Orleans on Wednesday February 4, 2004 at 7PM. There are other performers on the recital, and I am not yet sure where I = am on the program, but the entire recital should be about an hour long. Admission is free. If you are in the area, please come by and say = hello. =20 For more info and links with directions, etc., please visit http://www.jeffalbert.com/upcomingevents.html . =20 Thanks, =20 Jeff Albert =20 www.jeffalbert.com =20 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:25:35 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment > >Yes, it does last a very long time. Dow says it has a shelf life of >five years, but I'm guessing that fifty is closer to reality for our >applications. > Iâd be willing to believe that it would take some pretty serious chemicals to attack silicone vacuum grease with Teflon. But also, high vacuum work is about impurities in parts per trillion. Chances are that Dow Corning is covering their rears, but stating that their grease only lasts five years. But thereâs another scenario that also comes into play. When Dow Corning wanted to start selling their high vacuum grease, they didnât want to wait for 1000 years, first, just to see what the shelf life might be. So they simulated (environmentally control tested) what five hard years might do to the grease, and decided that that would be good enough. Chances are that the package degrades before the grease, but the degraded package contaminating the grease, with impurities in parts per trillion. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:54:05 -0800 From: Elliott Moxley Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment I put a Clonitz linkage on my wife's 42 BO maybe ten years ago, and it's been quiet and trouble free. My 42 B, before I got it, had made a trip to Osmun for rotor porting and their linkage; again real quiet. I thought King had a real winner, though, thirty years ago, with the flat piece of Teflon or Delrin that they were using on the 3B and 1480, maybe others. Simplest thing out there- Bob Woodard wrote: > My vintage (any horn older than 25 years is vintage, right?) Bach 36B > that dates from the mid-70's has served me well these many years. > However, it has developed quite a clank in the f-attachment when the > trigger is depressed and released. I am pretty sure that the noise is > coming from the metal ball-and-socket linkage and would like some advice > on how to quiet this noise. I am not interested in replacing the valve, > just in reducing the 'clankety-clank'. Suggestions? > > Bob Woodard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:51:26 -0800 From: sloane@BATNET.COM Subject: Cosmic Bb (from the New York Times 1/30/04) In case you haven't seen this, it was in today's New York Times. The list of famous compositions has a few glaring omissions, such as Big Pig, not to mention The Death of the Bb7 Chord at the Hands of Worker Trombones, but may yet be of interest. Gary The Speculative Case for the Cosmic B Flat By JOHN ROCKWELL Published: January 30, 2004 Who knew? All those philosophers and scientists and theoreticians and composers who believed in the ancient notion of a Music of the Spheres were onto something. There is such a music, and it's the note of B flat. Or so scientists told us a few months ago when they announced that the Perseus galaxy cluster, 250 million light years from our little planet, was emitting that note, or a series of those notes, which "appear as pressure waves roiling and spreading as a result of outbursts from a supermassive black hole," in the words of Dennis Overbye, a science reporter for The New York Times. The notes have a period of oscillation of 10 million years, which makes them "the lowest note in the universe." So said Dr. Andrew Fabian, an X-ray astronomer at Cambridge University in England and the leader of the team that discovered the note. Most of the commentary since has been about the implications of this discovery for the study of black holes and hence of the physical properties of the universe. My interest is, to put it mildly, less scientifically informed and more aesthetically speculative. These B flats may be the oldest and the longest notes in the universe, but just how universal are they? My eye was caught by another recent article in The Times, this one about a mysterious low hum that bedevils some people, a kind of basso variant of tinnitus, which is a high pitch likewise heard in the ears of sufferers. Are those sounds, I wondered, also in B flat, suggesting an even more cosmic implication for this once-humble pitch? Courtesy of Mindy Sink, who wrote the article, I entered into e-mail correspondence with Dr. James Kelly of the University of New Mexico, who undertook studies of hum sufferers in Taos. Dr. Kelly first clarified for me the difference between frequency and pitch. "Frequency is a physical measure," he wrote. "Pitch is what you perceive." Since the black-hole B flat is 57 octaves lower than middle C, it cannot be heard, thus only questionably qualifying as a pitch. As for the hum, Dr. Kelly reported that it was close to 66 hertz, two octaves below middle C. But he suggested that other patients heard hums as low as the lowest E on a piano. No specific correspondence with B flat, but one can always hope. Back to the macro picture, the black hole B flat. If that frequency (or pitch) is now the acoustical bedrock of the universe, perhaps our entire tuning system, centered on middle C, needs revision. The Western harmonic system involves keys with increasing numbers of sharps and flats exfoliating out from middle C, or from C major, all white keys on the piano. Now, perhaps, we have to exfoliate from B flat. Maybe this is as big a shift in human thinking as that from a flat-earth-centered universe to the solar system. Or maybe not. As a digression, I thought of the California composer Terry Riley. Mr. Riley, always something of a cosmic mystic, won his first fame in 1964 with his composition "In C," which has been endlessly recorded and played, in part because it's so beautiful and in part because it's so ingenious: a series of simple melodic figures that any group of any kind of instrumentalists may play according to certain simple rules, setting up a dappled tapestry of sound. Mr. Riley's most recent piece attests to his fascination with the cosmos. It's called "Sun Rings," and although lavishly praised on the West Coast (the Kronos Quartet performs it), it hasn't yet made it to our benighted Eastern outback. "Sun Rings" is based on "space sounds" recorded by Dr. Don Gurnett of the University of Iowa. One wonders idly if B flat plays any special role. To judge from "In C," Mr. Riley is a C man. According to the music encyclopedias, the Internet and Jamie James's chatty book "Music of the Spheres: Music, Science and the Natural Order of the Universe," thinkers and artists have been less interested in what might be designated a universal fundamental tone as in the relations between the tones: scales and modes and keys. Tables ascribing emotional characteristics to keys have poured out over the centuries, back to the ancient Greeks. The most complete compendium of these descriptions was compiled by Dr. Rita Steblin in a book published by the University of Rochester Press and titled "A History of Key Characteristics in the 18th and Early 19th Centuries," although she ranges far earlier and later than that. Check it out for $95 plus shipping on Amazon.com. The descriptions were always highly subjective, but those in Dr. Steblin's book for B flat major (let's try to keep this reasonably simple, avoiding B flat minor) generally call it a happy key. "Magnificent and joyful," as per one early French source. "Noble," thought another Frenchman. "Condescending greatness mixed with venerable seriousness," said a late-18th-century German. "Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope, aspirations for a better world," wrote another. "Tender, soft, sweet, love, charm, grace," according to an Italian. If we listen to these sages, a B flat universe is not such a bad place to be. And if we buy into August Gathy, a Frenchman who wrote in 1835, the key relates to "noble womanliness," too. Maybe there's something to Erda or Gaia, after all. Check out www.gaiaconsort.com, a site devoted to "music for freethinking pagans, humanists, psychedelics, visionaries, wiccans, mystics." Perhaps Mr. Riley already has. Before we reluctantly leave the concept of keys, here is a highly selective list of well-known compositions in B flat major; make of them what you will: Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" Piano Sonata and Symphony No. 4, Brahms's Piano Concerto No. 2, Haydn's Symphonies Nos. 98 and 102, Prokofiev's Symphony No. 5, Schubert's Symphony No. 5, Schumann's Symphony No. 1. But perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves, besides managing to annoy any serious acoustician or physicist or musical theorist. The universe has not yet been detected as emitting music in any key or mode. It is just steadily (and very slowly) singing the note of B flat, over and over. What song did the Sirens sing? What note? What key? We await further word from our intrepid scientists, ears cocked to the cosmos. The Speculative Case for the Cosmic B Flat By JOHN ROCKWELL Published: January 30, 2004 Who knew? All those philosophers and scientists and theoreticians and composers who believed in the ancient notion of a Music of the Spheres were onto something. There is such a music, and it's the note of B flat. Or so scientists told us a few months ago when they announced that the Perseus galaxy cluster, 250 million light years from our little planet, was emitting that note, or a series of those notes, which "appear as pressure waves roiling and spreading as a result of outbursts from a supermassive black hole," in the words of Dennis Overbye, a science reporter for The New York Times. The notes have a period of oscillation of 10 million years, which makes them "the lowest note in the universe." So said Dr. Andrew Fabian, an X-ray astronomer at Cambridge University in England and the leader of the team that discovered the note. Most of the commentary since has been about the implications of this discovery for the study of black holes and hence of the physical properties of the universe. My interest is, to put it mildly, less scientifically informed and more aesthetically speculative. These B flats may be the oldest and the longest notes in the universe, but just how universal are they? My eye was caught by another recent article in The Times, this one about a mysterious low hum that bedevils some people, a kind of basso variant of tinnitus, which is a high pitch likewise heard in the ears of sufferers. Are those sounds, I wondered, also in B flat, suggesting an even more cosmic implication for this once-humble pitch? Courtesy of Mindy Sink, who wrote the article, I entered into e-mail correspondence with Dr. James Kelly of the University of New Mexico, who undertook studies of hum sufferers in Taos. Dr. Kelly first clarified for me the difference between frequency and pitch. "Frequency is a physical measure," he wrote. "Pitch is what you perceive." Since the black-hole B flat is 57 octaves lower than middle C, it cannot be heard, thus only questionably qualifying as a pitch. As for the hum, Dr. Kelly reported that it was close to 66 hertz, two octaves below middle C. But he suggested that other patients heard hums as low as the lowest E on a piano. No specific correspondence with B flat, but one can always hope. Back to the macro picture, the black hole B flat. If that frequency (or pitch) is now the acoustical bedrock of the universe, perhaps our entire tuning system, centered on middle C, needs revision. The Western harmonic system involves keys with increasing numbers of sharps and flats exfoliating out from middle C, or from C major, all white keys on the piano. Now, perhaps, we have to exfoliate from B flat. Maybe this is as big a shift in human thinking as that from a flat-earth-centered universe to the solar system. Or maybe not. As a digression, I thought of the California composer Terry Riley. Mr. Riley, always something of a cosmic mystic, won his first fame in 1964 with his composition "In C," which has been endlessly recorded and played, in part because it's so beautiful and in part because it's so ingenious: a series of simple melodic figures that any group of any kind of instrumentalists may play according to certain simple rules, setting up a dappled tapestry of sound. Mr. Riley's most recent piece attests to his fascination with the cosmos. It's called "Sun Rings," and although lavishly praised on the West Coast (the Kronos Quartet performs it), it hasn't yet made it to our benighted Eastern outback. "Sun Rings" is based on "space sounds" recorded by Dr. Don Gurnett of the University of Iowa. One wonders idly if B flat plays any special role. To judge from "In C," Mr. Riley is a C man. According to the music encyclopedias, the Internet and Jamie James's chatty book "Music of the Spheres: Music, Science and the Natural Order of the Universe," thinkers and artists have been less interested in what might be designated a universal fundamental tone as in the relations between the tones: scales and modes and keys. Tables ascribing emotional characteristics to keys have poured out over the centuries, back to the ancient Greeks. The most complete compendium of these descriptions was compiled by Dr. Rita Steblin in a book published by the University of Rochester Press and titled "A History of Key Characteristics in the 18th and Early 19th Centuries," although she ranges far earlier and later than that. Check it out for $95 plus shipping on Amazon.com. The descriptions were always highly subjective, but those in Dr. Steblin's book for B flat major (let's try to keep this reasonably simple, avoiding B flat minor) generally call it a happy key. "Magnificent and joyful," as per one early French source. "Noble," thought another Frenchman. "Condescending greatness mixed with venerable seriousness," said a late-18th-century German. "Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope, aspirations for a better world," wrote another. "Tender, soft, sweet, love, charm, grace," according to an Italian. If we listen to these sages, a B flat universe is not such a bad place to be. And if we buy into August Gathy, a Frenchman who wrote in 1835, the key relates to "noble womanliness," too. Maybe there's something to Erda or Gaia, after all. Check out www.gaiaconsort.com, a site devoted to "music for freethinking pagans, humanists, psychedelics, visionaries, wiccans, mystics." Perhaps Mr. Riley already has. Before we reluctantly leave the concept of keys, here is a highly selective list of well-known compositions in B flat major; make of them what you will: Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" Piano Sonata and Symphony No. 4, Brahms's Piano Concerto No. 2, Haydn's Symphonies Nos. 98 and 102, Prokofiev's Symphony No. 5, Schubert's Symphony No. 5, Schumann's Symphony No. 1. But perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves, besides managing to annoy any serious acoustician or physicist or musical theorist. The universe has not yet been detected as emitting music in any key or mode. It is just steadily (and very slowly) singing the note of B flat, over and over. What song did the Sirens sing? What note? What key? We await further word from our intrepid scientists, ears cocked to the cosmos. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:20:57 -0600 From: Harold Smith Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment --Clarify #2 On the top of the outer valve body, where the linkage attaches to the = rotor, (if this is a mechanical linkage and not string driven), is half = circle piece in which the rubber or cork stops are held. It sort of = looks like a large letter "C", with two small "c's" -- one on either end = -- attached. This piece on my Bach 50, and 42 (relatively newer vintage) is = attached with two machine screws. Many times, when my linkage still = clanks, I have found that the screws have loosened over time. The = result of this is the stops aren't stopping and everything is moving. = When this happens, "clank-clank." Since I don't know the technical name for this part, all I can do is = try to describe it. Hope this helps. Harold Smith Austin, Tx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:37:37 -0500 From: bonearzt@COX.NET Subject: Re: Noisy F-attachment --Clarify #2 This part is called a stop plate or cork stop plate. Also, try using a very low strength thread lock to secure the screws, I believe it's the "Red" formula of Lock-tite. Thanks Eric > > From: Harold Smith > Date: 2004/01/30 Fri PM 05:20:57 EST > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Noisy F-attachment --Clarify #2 > > On the top of the outer valve body, where the linkage attaches to the rotor, (if this is a mechanical linkage and not string driven), is half circle piece in which the rubber or cork stops are held. It sort of looks like a large letter "C", with two small "c's" -- one on either end -- attached. > > This piece on my Bach 50, and 42 (relatively newer vintage) is attached with two machine screws. Many times, when my linkage still clanks, I have found that the screws have loosened over time. The result of this is the stops aren't stopping and everything is moving. When this happens, "clank-clank." > > Since I don't know the technical name for this part, all I can do is try to describe it. Hope this helps. > > Harold Smith > Austin, Tx > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:55:33 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: DOW Vacuum Grease, was Noisy F-attachment --- Dennis Clason wrote: > The last time I looked, the suppliers didn't > sell it by the > tube, but by case lots. Not true. I just bought a single tube recently. Quick 'net search. I got a good price too. I can dig out the receipt for the contact info if anyone cares. ===== Gabe Langfur Boston, MA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:27:35 -0500 From: David Shriver Subject: Works for Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombone I'm looking for something different for a recital. I'd like to find a piece that calls for the soloist to play alto, tenor and bass trombone in the same piece. I know about OF MOUNTAINS, LAKES AND TREES for alto, tenor and bass but there is no piano reduction. Only LAKES is out with reduction and its for tenor trombone and harp. I need to find something with piano reduction. So does anyone know of a piece for alto, tenor and bass, and that has piano reduction? Clear Skies, David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:54:40 -0600 From: Matt & Abby Erickson Subject: Re: Works for Alto, Tenor, and Bass Trombone I have heard that Charles Vernon had a piece composed for him with the aforementioned instrumentation. I am unsure if it is published nor do I know the name of the work. Maybe someone on the list does... Matt Erickson > I'm looking for something different for a recital. I'd like to find a > piece that calls for the soloist to play alto, tenor and bass trombone > in the same piece. > > > > I know about OF MOUNTAINS, LAKES AND TREES for alto, tenor and bass but > there is no piano reduction. Only LAKES is out with reduction and its > for tenor trombone and harp. I need to find something with piano > reduction. > > > > So does anyone know of a piece for alto, tenor and bass, and that has > piano reduction? > > > > Clear Skies, > > David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:21:27 -0000 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Subject: Please update your contact information This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_-------==3393794717 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU, I'm updating my address book. Please take a moment to update your latest contact information. Your information is stored in my personal address book and will not be shared with anyone else. Plaxo is free, if you'd like to give it a try. Click the following link to correct or confirm your information: https://www.plaxo.com/edit_contact_info?r=4295185599-21787836--1753792614 Name: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Job Title: Company: Work E-mail: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Work Phone: Work Fax: Work Address Line 1: Work Address Line 2: Work City, State, Zip: Mobile Phone: Home E-mail: Home Phone: Home Fax: Home Address Line 1: Home Address Line 2: Home City, State, Zip: Birthday: My current contact information: P.S. I've included my personal card below so that you have my current information. I've also attached a copy as a vCard. +----------------- | Paul D. Kemp Jr. | trbnplyr@comcast.net | | 6006 Porter Drive | Harrison, TN 37341 | home: 423-344-9445 | mobile: 423-364-7251 +------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you by trbnplyr@comcast.net via Plaxo. To have Plaxo automatically handle these messages in the future, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/autoreply Plaxo's Privacy Policy: http://www.plaxo.com/support/privacy --_-------==3393794717 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Paul D. Kemp Jr..vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Paul D. Kemp Jr..vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-PLAXO-VERSION:1.0 N:Kemp;Paul;D.;;Jr. FN:Paul D. Kemp Jr. ADR;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;6006 Porter Drive;Harrison;TN;37341;USA TEL;HOME;VOICE:423-344-9445 TEL;CELL;VOICE:423-364-7251 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:trbnplyr@comcast.net END:VCARD --_-------==3393794717-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:21:57 -0500 From: Raymond Horton Subject: Re: Trombone writing in Janacek But the second movement is clearly four trombones, correct? The running, muted, eighth notes - 1st and 2nd trbs in unison vs. 3rd and 4th in unison. It would not work well with tuba subbing for the latter. Like I guessed, 4th and tuba were meant as a double? If 4th trombone was a bass valve trombone (Bb 4 valve) it would, conceivably, have been an easy double to tuba. I have neither a score nor parts near me now, and I can't run down the rest of the work in my head to think of the sequence of 4th trombone / tuba writing, but the 2nd movement is quite vivid in my memory. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist Louisville Orchestra ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Musgrove" To: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Trombone writing in Janacek > My understanding was always that the fourth trombone part in Sinfonietta was > simply a copyist's error, and that Janacek wanted three trombones and tuba. > The old edition with this part had either tuba or fourth trombone in each of > the five movements, and they never played together. The piece ended with the > fourth trombone blaring out low Ds or D flats at the bottom of a brass > section of over twenty, whilst the tuba player disappeared to get the beers > in (or whatever tuba players do at the ends of concerts). > > The fourth part was great fun to play, but it seems pretty clear that it is > a tuba part (you can try and sound as big as you like playing the low D flat > and pedal G flat entry, but it will only ever sound really right on a tuba). > > David Musgrove > Bass Trombone > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:25:39 -0600 From: Pete Soukup Subject: Re: Please update your contact information I believe that Plaxo is spyware, and I would not recommend using it -----Original Message----- From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Sent: Jan 30, 2004 9:21 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Please update your contact information TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU, I'm updating my address book. Please take a moment to update your latest contact information. Your information is stored in my personal address book and will not be shared with anyone else. Plaxo is free, if you'd like to give it a try. Click the following link to correct or confirm your information: https://www.plaxo.com/edit_contact_info?r=4295185599-21787836--1753792614 Name: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Job Title: Company: Work E-mail: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Work Phone: Work Fax: Work Address Line 1: Work Address Line 2: Work City, State, Zip: Mobile Phone: Home E-mail: Home Phone: Home Fax: Home Address Line 1: Home Address Line 2: Home City, State, Zip: Birthday: My current contact information: P.S. I've included my personal card below so that you have my current information. I've also attached a copy as a vCard. +----------------- | Paul D. Kemp Jr. | trbnplyr@comcast.net | | 6006 Porter Drive | Harrison, TN 37341 | home: 423-344-9445 | mobile: 423-364-7251 +------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you by trbnplyr@comcast.net via Plaxo. To have Plaxo automatically handle these messages in the future, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/autoreply Plaxo's Privacy Policy: http://www.plaxo.com/support/privacy Pete Soukup psoukup@mindspring.com ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 29 Jan 2004 to 30 Jan 2004 (#2004-31) ****************************************************************