Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 15 Jan 2004 to 16 Jan 2004 (#2004-17) Date: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 26 messages totalling 1107 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. New Publication from Cherry Classics Music (3) 2. gig bags from ebay (2) 3. Slide stops (13) 4. Bean Counting 5. Pro/Amateur Bone Section Evaluation of Tuneup: Bootcamp 6. Tribute to J.J. with no trombone? 7. Early music 8. Slide Stops / slide length (4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:58:31 -0800 From: Gordon Cherry Subject: New Publication from Cherry Classics Music Cherry Classics Music announces a new publication of interest to all brass musicians: A STUDY IN MUSICAL INTONATION by CHRISTOPHER LEUBA This book was written in 1962 and is in its 4th revision. This latest edition (11th printing) is printed and published with permission of the author by Cherry Classics Music. Mr. Leuba's book offers the student, amateur and professional a detailed study of the "Science" of Intonation. The standard method of teaching intonation by the intuitive method is discussed and shown to be flawed. This book first addresses the physical and acoustic phenomena relating to the problems of Intonation and Tuning and then makes suggestions concerning the use of "mechanical aids" in training the musician's perception, and some practical applications. You may view or download a free pdf sample of this book by clicking on the following link: http://www.cherry-classics.com/samples/BrassSheet/Leuba_Intonation_Book_sample.pdf A native of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Mr. Leuba is a noted music performer, pedagogue and author. Having started playing the horn during his senior year in high school, Mr. Leuba went on to study with noted hornists Aubrey Brain and Philip Farkas. Mr. Leuba served two terms in the United States Army and later performed with the Minneapolis Symphony, eventually rising to principal horn. He served as principal horn with the Chicago Symphony under Fritz Reiner during the 1960-1962 seasons. He has also appeared with the Philharmonica Hungarica under the direction of Antal Dorati. During his extensive career, he has performed fourteen complete Wagner Ring cycles and appeared with Sarah Vaughan, Quincy Jones and the Bill Russo big band. Mr. Leuba taught at the University of Washington for eleven years, during which time he published several books on music performance. Mr. Leuba's A Study of Musical Intonation is highly regarded as a seminal work for teaching the principles of just intonation to musicians. His other publications include Rules of the Game, Phrasing Concepts and Dexterity Drills and are used by brass teachers around the country. He has been an invited clinician at the Annual Conference of The International Trombone Association at Belmont College. Mr. Leuba is presently in his 20th season as Principal Hornist with the Portland Opera in Portland, Oregon. This 40 page book bound with spiral binding may be ordered through Cherry Classics Music. Cost $10.00 US Shipping $ 3.00 US (North America) $5.00 US (Internationally) Total $13.00 US (Northe America $15.00 US (Internationally) Please mail payment by check or money order to: Cherry Classics Music 5462 Granville Street Vancovuer, BC V6M 3C3 CANADA (postage to Canada is $.60 from the US) or PayPal payment to the PayPal account of gcherry@Cherry-Classics.com or VISA/Mastercard payment by phone (604) 261-5454 Pacific Time. Sincerely, Gordon Cherry Cherry Classics Music Principal Trombone Vancouver Symphony ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:51:44 -0800 From: "James W. Yardley" Subject: gig bags from ebay Hello everyone. Recently I have had two packages, each containing a Tuxedo Bass Trombone gig bag, delivered and then stolen from my front door. I'm in the process of trying to find out who has taken them, and my first guess is that they've tried to sell them on ebay. If you bought a bag from ebay between Nov. 19 and Dec. 31 can you please contact me off list so that I might get the seller information from you to find out if they live near me. Please contact me off list if you can help. Thanks. Take care, James Yardley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:28:55 -0500 From: Roger Carmichael Subject: Re: gig bags from ebay FWIW, might I suggest you contact the shipping service and advise that you live in a high-risk area. This will set you up to have to sign a receipt for package deliveries, or you could ask the seller to send future packages with "signature required." That assures you of avoiding another package theft. Also, were the police notified? The shipping company would have an exact time the packages were left. That might help in the investigation and possible recovery. -----Original Message----- From: "James W. Yardley" Sent: Jan 16, 2004 2:51 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] gig bags from ebay Hello everyone. Recently I have had two packages, each containing a Tuxedo Bass Trombone gig bag, delivered and then stolen from my front door. I'm in the process of trying to find out who has taken them, and my first guess is that they've tried to sell them on ebay. If you bought a bag from ebay between Nov. 19 and Dec. 31 can you please contact me off list so that I might get the seller information from you to find out if they live near me. Please contact me off list if you can help. Thanks. Take care, James Yardley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:07:04 -0600 From: Mearl Danner Subject: Re: New Publication from Cherry Classics Music A bad link. Should be: http://www.cherry-classics.com/samples/BrassSheet/Leuba_Intonation_Book-sample.pdf Mearl Danner Systems Programmer jmdanner@samford.edu Samford University http://www.samford.edu >>> Gordon Cherry 1/15/2004 11:58:31 PM >>> Cherry Classics Music announces a new publication of interest to all brass musicians: A STUDY IN MUSICAL INTONATION by CHRISTOPHER LEUBA This book was written in 1962 and is in its 4th revision. This latest edition (11th printing) is printed and published with permission of the author by Cherry Classics Music. Mr. Leuba's book offers the student, amateur and professional a detailed study of the "Science" of Intonation. The standard method of teaching intonation by the intuitive method is discussed and shown to be flawed. This book first addresses the physical and acoustic phenomena relating to the problems of Intonation and Tuning and then makes suggestions concerning the use of "mechanical aids" in training the musician's perception, and some practical applications. You may view or download a free pdf sample of this book by clicking on the following link: http://www.cherry-classics.com/samples/BrassSheet/Leuba_Intonation_Book_sample.pdf A native of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Mr. Leuba is a noted music performer, pedagogue and author. Having started playing the horn during his senior year in high school, Mr. Leuba went on to study with noted hornists Aubrey Brain and Philip Farkas. Mr. Leuba served two terms in the United States Army and later performed with the Minneapolis Symphony, eventually rising to principal horn. He served as principal horn with the Chicago Symphony under Fritz Reiner during the 1960-1962 seasons. He has also appeared with the Philharmonica Hungarica under the direction of Antal Dorati. During his extensive career, he has performed fourteen complete Wagner Ring cycles and appeared with Sarah Vaughan, Quincy Jones and the Bill Russo big band. Mr. Leuba taught at the University of Washington for eleven years, during which time he published several books on music performance. Mr. Leuba's A Study of Musical Intonation is highly regarded as a seminal work for teaching the principles of just intonation to musicians. His other publications include Rules of the Game, Phrasing Concepts and Dexterity Drills and are used by brass teachers around the country. He has been an invited clinician at the Annual Conference of The International Trombone Association at Belmont College. Mr. Leuba is presently in his 20th season as Principal Hornist with the Portland Opera in Portland, Oregon. This 40 page book bound with spiral binding may be ordered through Cherry Classics Music. Cost $10.00 US Shipping $ 3.00 US (North America) $5.00 US (Internationally) Total $13.00 US (Northe America $15.00 US (Internationally) Please mail payment by check or money order to: Cherry Classics Music 5462 Granville Street Vancovuer, BC V6M 3C3 CANADA (postage to Canada is $.60 from the US) or PayPal payment to the PayPal account of gcherry@Cherry-Classics.com or VISA/Mastercard payment by phone (604) 261-5454 Pacific Time. Sincerely, Gordon Cherry Cherry Classics Music Principal Trombone Vancouver Symphony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:08:57 -0600 From: Bob Keilitz Subject: Slide stops One of the things I've grown to love about my Benge, and the Conn 88H I had years ago, is the fact that both of these horns have spring slide stops. Recently, I had a really nice Bach 36BO which I wound up selling, because of the stops on the horn. I'm in search of a small bore horn which has spring stops. Do the King 2B or 3B horns, or any other smaller bore horns (.525 or smaller) come with spring slide stops?? Acceptable brands would be Getzen, Holton, Blessing (or any of their stencils), King, and of course, Conn. I know that neither Bach nor Yamaha use spring stops. I'd be willing to pick up an older Conn, as long as I know they have spring stops. I don't know if the spring stops are particular to the 88H, or if this is/has been a feature of all of Conn's horns over the years. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:21:33 EST From: "Thomas B. Cox" Subject: Re: Slide stops I'm not sure exactly which Conn horns did and did not have spring stops, but as a general rule, the smaller ones did not and the larger ones did, until recently. I have a 4H from 1955, and it does not have spring stops. I am not sure if the 78/79H (.522) had spring stops or not, but I guess it is a possibility. 78H was a straight horn, while 79H had an F-attachment (I think that's correct) -Tommy Cox Thomas B. Cox University of Alabama Music Education/Trombone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:22:58 -0500 From: Keith Davis Subject: Re: Bean Counting "Obtain the average weight of a bean and weigh the refried bean concoction. Remove the weight of any additives such as oil or lard, and then divide the net weight by the value of the average bean. You will come up with a close approximation of the number of beans in the refritos. Chris Tune" Applied to musical discussion: Determine the average beats per minute. Multiply by number of beats in a measure times the total number of measures in the rest. You You will come up with a close approximation of when to come in for the next trombone part... ;) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:25:35 -0700 From: Eric Edwards Subject: Re: Slide stops I'm pretty sure this is a feature found only on Conn 88H and King 4B's. Yup, just checked my '78 4B, gots em. You could probably get someone to put springs in place of the cork or felts. Thanks Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards bonearzt@cox.net "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price fades". -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob Keilitz Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:09 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Slide stops One of the things I've grown to love about my Benge, and the Conn 88H I had years ago, is the fact that both of these horns have spring slide stops. Recently, I had a really nice Bach 36BO which I wound up selling, because of the stops on the horn. I'm in search of a small bore horn which has spring stops. Do the King 2B or 3B horns, or any other smaller bore horns (.525 or smaller) come with spring slide stops?? Acceptable brands would be Getzen, Holton, Blessing (or any of their stencils), King, and of course, Conn. I know that neither Bach nor Yamaha use spring stops. I'd be willing to pick up an older Conn, as long as I know they have spring stops. I don't know if the spring stops are particular to the 88H, or if this is/has been a feature of all of Conn's horns over the years. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:43:20 EST From: Stephen Colley Subject: Pro/Amateur Bone Section Evaluation of Tuneup: Bootcamp Hey Folks, If you are like me, intonation is one of those areas that escaped me in school. As a result, a lot of us are out there in orchestras, bands and other ensembles really struggling to find what "in tune" means. That's the reason, of course, I developed Tuneup. Tuneup is now augmenting the programs of some of the top music schools in the country, but that leaves out the folks already out of school. I'd like to remedy that if I could! If you are a member of a bone section in pretty much any ensemble or in a brass quintet, I would like to give the whole section the chance to see how Tuneup locks the section together. We used the new Bootcamp System at the IU Trombone Workshop with Joe Alessi with incredible results in a very short period of time. Joe has been a friend of Tuneup for a long time, but he he quite convinced that the new Tuneup: Basic Training is an important tool. If you will contact me privately, I will arrange for a chance for your section to use Tuneup: Basic Training and Bootcamp for 30 days free of charge. Let's raise the bar on intonation! Best, Stephen Colley www.tuneupsystems.com Stephen Colley www.tuneupsystems.com 804-852-8219 "Rhythm - Metronome. Intonation - TuneUp." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:17:55 -0500 From: Steve Carr Subject: Re: Slide stops I've seen various Conns, Kings and Benges with spring bumpers. = Sometimes these things change through the production life of a horn. I = had a Benge 290 with spring bumpers - a friend's 290 doesn't have them. = I wouldn't pick a horn based on it alone - have the springs put in a = horn you like otherwise. Steve ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eric Edwards=20 To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide stops I'm pretty sure this is a feature found only on Conn 88H and King = 4B's. Yup, just checked my '78 4B, gots em. You could probably get someone to put springs in place of the cork or = felts. Thanks Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards bonearzt@cox.net "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of = low price fades". -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob Keilitz Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:09 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Slide stops One of the things I've grown to love about my Benge, and the Conn 88H = I had years ago, is the fact that both of these horns have spring slide = stops. Recently, I had a really nice Bach 36BO which I wound up selling, = because of the stops on the horn. I'm in search of a small bore horn which = has spring stops. Do the King 2B or 3B horns, or any other smaller bore = horns (.525 or smaller) come with spring slide stops?? Acceptable brands = would be Getzen, Holton, Blessing (or any of their stencils), King, and of course, Conn. I know that neither Bach nor Yamaha use spring stops. = I'd be willing to pick up an older Conn, as long as I know they have = spring stops. I don't know if the spring stops are particular to the 88H, or = if this is/has been a feature of all of Conn's horns over the years. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:24:55 -0000 From: David Musgrove Subject: Re: Slide stops The problem with this is that if you don't have enough spare on the main tuning slide, you end up with a flat horn or having to cut a bit out of it. The extra length you add in the springs has to be lost somewhere. David -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Carr Sent: 16 January 2004 15:18 To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide stops I've seen various Conns, Kings and Benges with spring bumpers. Sometimes these things change through the production life of a horn. I had a Benge 290 with spring bumpers - a friend's 290 doesn't have them. I wouldn't pick a horn based on it alone - have the springs put in a horn you like otherwise. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Edwards To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide stops I'm pretty sure this is a feature found only on Conn 88H and King 4B's. Yup, just checked my '78 4B, gots em. You could probably get someone to put springs in place of the cork or felts. Thanks Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards bonearzt@cox.net "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price fades". -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob Keilitz Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:09 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Slide stops One of the things I've grown to love about my Benge, and the Conn 88H I had years ago, is the fact that both of these horns have spring slide stops. Recently, I had a really nice Bach 36BO which I wound up selling, because of the stops on the horn. I'm in search of a small bore horn which has spring stops. Do the King 2B or 3B horns, or any other smaller bore horns (.525 or smaller) come with spring slide stops?? Acceptable brands would be Getzen, Holton, Blessing (or any of their stencils), King, and of course, Conn. I know that neither Bach nor Yamaha use spring stops. I'd be willing to pick up an older Conn, as long as I know they have spring stops. I don't know if the spring stops are particular to the 88H, or if this is/has been a feature of all of Conn's horns over the years. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:53:59 -0800 From: Gordon Cherry Subject: New Publication from Cherry Classics Music Sorry for the repeat, it was found that I had a bad link in the address below. This is the last time. Gordon Cherry ====================== Cherry Classics Music announces a new publication of interest to all brass musicians: A STUDY IN MUSICAL INTONATION by CHRISTOPHER LEUBA This book was written in 1962 and is in its 4th revision. This latest edition (11th printing) is printed and published with permission of the author by Cherry Classics Music. Mr. Leuba's book offers the student, amateur and professional a detailed study of the "Science" of Intonation. The standard method of teaching intonation by the intuitive method is discussed and shown to be flawed. This book first addresses the physical and acoustic phenomena relating to the problems of Intonation and Tuning and then makes suggestions concerning the use of "mechanical aids" in training the musician's perception, and some practical applications. You may view or download a free pdf sample of this book by clicking on the following link: http://www.cherry-classics.com/samples/BrassSheet/Leuba_Intonation_Book-sample.pdf A native of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Mr. Leuba is a noted music performer, pedagogue and author. Having started playing the horn during his senior year in high school, Mr. Leuba went on to study with noted hornists Aubrey Brain and Philip Farkas. Mr. Leuba served two terms in the United States Army and later performed with the Minneapolis Symphony, eventually rising to principal horn. He served as principal horn with the Chicago Symphony under Fritz Reiner during the 1960-1962 seasons. He has also appeared with the Philharmonica Hungarica under the direction of Antal Dorati. During his extensive career, he has performed fourteen complete Wagner Ring cycles and appeared with Sarah Vaughan, Quincy Jones and the Bill Russo big band. Mr. Leuba taught at the University of Washington for eleven years, during which time he published several books on music performance. Mr. Leuba's A Study of Musical Intonation is highly regarded as a seminal work for teaching the principles of just intonation to musicians. His other publications include Rules of the Game, Phrasing Concepts and Dexterity Drills and are used by brass teachers around the country. He has been an invited clinician at the Annual Conference of The International Trombone Association at Belmont College. Mr. Leuba is presently in his 20th season as Principal Hornist with the Portland Opera in Portland, Oregon. This 40 page book bound with spiral binding may be ordered through Cherry Classics Music. Cost $10.00 US Shipping $ 3.00 US (North America) $5.00 US (Internationally) Total $13.00 US (Northe America $15.00 US (Internationally) Please mail payment by check or money order to: Cherry Classics Music 5462 Granville Street Vancovuer, BC V6M 3C3 CANADA (postage to Canada is $.60 from the US) or PayPal payment to the PayPal account of gcherry@Cherry-Classics.com or VISA/Mastercard payment by phone (604) 261-5454 Pacific Time. Sincerely, Gordon Cherry Cherry Classics Music Principal Trombone Vancouver Symphony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:49:14 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: Tribute to J.J. with no trombone? No, on *trombone.* David Baker played trombone for many years and studied with J.J. Johnson. He played on George Russell's "Stratusphunk" album (among others) and was honored by DownBeat Magazine before an accident sidetracked his trombone playing career. To me, him presenting a tribute to J.J. is as natural as can be. Dale Cruse Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Dale Cruse wrote: > > >>And for those of you who never heard David Baker play trombone with >>George Russell's band (among others) treat yourself to some killin' playing. > > > On *cello*. > > I think it'd be equally weird if it were a tribute to Casals with all the > solos played on trombone. > > > Carole Nowicke > cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:51:46 -0500 From: David Carter Subject: Re: Slide stops I've added springs to horns that did not come with them. By removing the cork or felt slide stops in the barrel that recieves the slide tubes a little more space can be made for springs. I've found that I can add a half to a third of a Conn 88H slide spring to horns that are not made with springs and have 1st position not move out much. It's nice if the spring pushes the slide up to the slide lock similar to an 88H. I've known at least one player who had the slide shortened to take the full Conn spring. This is OK, and if you check an 88H slide you will fing the outside slide a little shorter than other horns. I don't like to shorten the slide, becuase someday I might sell the horns, and the next person may want a stock slide. In all fairness not everyone likes springs, and some have had the springs removed from horns that came with them. I like the spring on F valve horns to be able to pull up to tune the low f in first, when needed. I no longer add springs to small bore ho! rns, as I've learned to adjust to a floating first on them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:05:33 -0500 From: Lisa & Patrick Bates Subject: Re: Slide stops My 6B too! Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Edwards" To: Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide stops > I'm pretty sure this is a feature found only on Conn 88H and King 4B's. > Yup, just checked my '78 4B, gots em. > You could probably get someone to put springs in place of the cork or felts. > Thanks > Eric > > > > Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared > Edwards > bonearzt@cox.net > "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low > price fades". > > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob Keilitz > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:09 AM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Slide stops > > One of the things I've grown to love about my Benge, and the Conn 88H I had > years ago, is the fact that both of these horns have spring slide stops. > Recently, I had a really nice Bach 36BO which I wound up selling, because > of the stops on the horn. I'm in search of a small bore horn which has > spring stops. Do the King 2B or 3B horns, or any other smaller bore horns > (.525 or smaller) come with spring slide stops?? Acceptable brands would > be Getzen, Holton, Blessing (or any of their stencils), King, and of > course, Conn. I know that neither Bach nor Yamaha use spring stops. I'd > be willing to pick up an older Conn, as long as I know they have spring > stops. I don't know if the spring stops are particular to the 88H, or if > this is/has been a feature of all of Conn's horns over the years. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:38:33 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Slide stops Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com I am not sure if the 78/79H (.522) had spring stops or not, but I guess it is a possibility. 78H was a straight horn, while 79H had an F-attachment (I think that's correct) -Tommy Cox =================================================== I own a 78H and have owned a 79H and neither had springs. I also own or have owned 2 6Hs and neither had springs. My 88H does have springs. I play a somewhat long "floating first" as someone called it on all of my horns, so the addition of springs would not really affect where my slide is in first position. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:48:57 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Slide stops My King Duo Gravis has springs. I always assumed all Kings did, but noticed at big band last night that my colleagues' 2B+ and 3B didn't. So I assume it varies depending on when they were made. Reckon that's the sort of detail DJ might know: Cheers Keith in Bb/F/D --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 - Release Date: 13/01/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:00:57 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Slide stops I don't think the smaller horns ever did. The 2B from the 60's and 3BF from the 80s that I have owned did not have them. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Keith Marr Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 11:49 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide stops My King Duo Gravis has springs. I always assumed all Kings did, but noticed at big band last night that my colleagues' 2B+ and 3B didn't. So I assume it varies depending on when they were made. Reckon that's the sort of detail DJ might know: Cheers Keith in Bb/F/D --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 - Release Date: 13/01/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:11:54 -0800 From: Chris Tune Subject: Re: Slide stops I've seen countless 2B's and 3B's and I've never seen any that came equipped with springs. I think this is a feature of the 8H/88H and it's direct knockoffs and the competitor King 4B. A great alternative is to cut down the tuning slide and play 1st a half inch or so out. That would be a further difference down in seventh, but would most likely be about 3/4 of an inch. Chris Tune ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Marr" To: Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide stops > My King Duo Gravis has springs. I always assumed all Kings did, but noticed > at big band last night that my colleagues' 2B+ and 3B didn't. So I assume it > varies depending on when they were made. > > Reckon that's the sort of detail DJ might know: > > Cheers > > Keith in Bb/F/D > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 - Release Date: 13/01/2004 > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:25:56 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Slide stops I, too, have replace cork and felt slide stops with springs. Itās not that difficult to do, although it might get expensive, if your technician has to take a trip to the hardware store, to pick out the spring. And it doesnāt have to effect where first position is, although this takes a bit of fiddling, to get the spring length right. Most of the time, I use something in between springs and cork, for slide stops. I take out the cork and felt stops and use O-rings. Theyāre really easy to use and not hard to remove, with a hook, made of piano-wire. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up ÷ fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:14:07 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Slide stops Bob Keilitz wrote: >.....Do the King 2B or 3B horns, or any other smaller bore horns >(.525 or smaller) come with spring slide stops?? ..... > No they don't and never did. Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:32:37 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" Subject: Early music I've been asked by my friend David to post this: jw The 6th Maryland Early Brass Festival will be held at Goucher College in Towson Md on April 3rd, 2004. Current information will be posted at www.goucher.edu/earlybrass. This year, we are fortunate to have the Federal City Brass Band (Jari Villanueva, dir) as our ensemble-in-residence. They will perform at the festival concert, but will also conduct a workshop on mid-19th century American brass music. Performing participants in the workshop will be = able to play period instruments from their collection, but must pre-register = and be approved. Also scheduled to perform are the Washington Cornett and Sackbutt = Ensemble (Michael Holmes, dir) and the Maryland Early Brass Consort. Contact information is on the website. Dave Baum ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:04:20 -0600 From: Bob Keilitz Subject: Re: Slide Stops / slide length As usual, a great response, and thank you to all who have offered their experience thus far. I am very interested to hear that some of you have had success with putting springs on your smaller bore horns. I thought that I remembered reading, either here or on the OTJ, that putting springs on a trombone which was originally designed for cork/felt was 1)a bad thing to do, in general; 2) not possible because the space was not large enough to place the spring in the slide receiver; 3)not possible because there was no place to anchor the spring (which is apparently possible on Conn, Benge, King, and Blessing large bore horns); and 4)if you wanted to use your slide lock, then it was not something you should do. I'll have to do some searching to see if I can find that thread. Yes, playing with the horn tuned so that I can play "1st" pulled out a bit is a possibility. However, it's not an option I would really like to pursue, because it makes 6th position even further out. With short arms, I tend to have a hard time playing 6th in tune as it is, let alone 7th. The idea of an "O" ring was intriguing. Did the O-ring really make that much of a difference? If it did, it's an option I would certainly try. Sounds much less drastic than having to make cuts on the tuning slide. This raises another question for those of you wishing to tackle it. I'm wondering about slide length, in general here. I don't have access to the instruments to make these measurements, but maybe some of you do, or have the figures at hand to address this. In my mind, I'm comparing a slide which is made so that the tubes are closer together, to a slide which is wider. The slide which is wider (like a Bach slide), because there is more material in the slide crook between the tubes, does this compact the slide positions? Would the bore of the horn also make a difference??? I'll have to do some measuring on a couple of horns I have here. For example, I have a Yamaha YSL-354, where the slide is built with the legs much closer together than my Benge 190F. This might give me some initial insight into this question, but I'm sure that the bore of the horn must play an important part. Well, off to find that darn tape measure. Darn questions!!! They always lead to more questions (which I know is a good thing!!!) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:32:32 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: Slide Stops / slide length From: "Bob Keilitz" The slide which is wider (like a Bach slide), because there is more material in the slide crook between the tubes, does this compact the slide > positions? It shouldn't. The width is a constant. It effects the "starting point" if you will. Each successive slide position is still only a function of 2 times the distance between positions. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:37:46 -0800 From: Robert Keilitz Subject: Re: Slide Stops / slide length On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:32:32 -0500, Steve Beck wrote: >> It shouldn't. The width is a constant. It effects the "starting point" if you will. Each successive slide position is still only a function of 2 times the distance between positions.<< If the width is constant, then how does that explain that some horns have narrower legs than others?? Is this a function of the type of crook which might be on a horn?? Some are rounded (Kings and Benge, for example) while some are more like the Bach crooks? ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:42:05 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Slide Stops / slide length 3)not possible because there was >no place to anchor the spring All you need to do is bend the spring, a bit, so that its diameter is large enough to hold onto the outside of the cork barrel. You donāt want it to fit too snuggly, because youāre going to have to take it out, with an L-shaped hook, a few times, until youāve got the length just right, so that the slide lock works. Besides, whatās going to cause it to fall out? Only gravity. But also remember that the spring has to fit over the stocking, so if the open end of the outer slide isnāt built up to be thick, itās not going to hit on the spring right. Also, if the open end of the outer slide isnāt beefed up, itās going to bet beat up. Remember that it will be hitting a metal spring, every time you go into first position. >Yes, playing with the horn tuned so that I can play "1st" pulled out a bit >is a possibility. However, it's not an option I would really like to >pursue, because it makes 6th position even further out. With short arms, I >tend to have a hard time playing 6th in tune as it is, let alone 7th. I shorten slides on ćLPä (low pitch) trombones from yesteryear, if thereās enough extra tubing to cut off, to get them up to pitch. Most trombones I see need a considerable amount of work done to have their slides, anyway. >Did the O-ring really make that much >of a difference? I use O-rings, mostly because theyāre so easy. But I also believe that they give you a softer thump than cork or felt. They do NOT give you the ability to push on them, to get seventh partial in tune, like you can kind of do with a spring. But also remember that you first have to get the old cork/felt bumper out. Itās not hard to do, but you need to make or buy tools to do it. I made mine. Iāve got a brass tube, with a crude saw-like edge on it, to take most of the bumper out. Then I use a hook to clean out the rest. >In my mind, I'm comparing a slide >which is made so that the tubes are closer together, to a slide which is >wider. It ćseemsä as if thereās a price to pay for taking the pressure wave around a tight turn. It ćseemsä as if single-radius crooks sound mellower than double-radius crooks. But there are so many variables in the equation of what makes a trombone sound like it does, one canāt quite draw conclusions, like that. Which is why Iāve been putting ćseemsä in quotes. Iām particularly fond of Buescher Elkharts, which have the narrowest, dual-radius slides, Iāve ever seen. Meanwhile, my Frankenbone, the trombone I mostly play, has single-radius crooks and a Bach slide. Go figure. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed Īnet deals ÷ comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 15 Jan 2004 to 16 Jan 2004 (#2004-17) ****************************************************************