Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 8 Jan 2004 to 9 Jan 2004 (#2004-10) Date: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 12 messages totalling 494 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Jo-Ral mute (11) 2. One or two piece bells? (was: Rims-soldered or unsoldered. What is the difference) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:02:56 -0700 From: Eric Edwards Subject: Jo-Ral mute Hi All, I'm contemplating buying a Jo-Ral bucket. After playing and comparing it to my old Humes & Berg, I find it real stuffy. I know mutes are stuffy, but this really surprised me, feels worse than a practice mute. Any thoughts or suggestions, other than not buying it? I appreciate any help. Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards bonearzt@cox.net "Just shut up and play!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:26:02 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute Does it really "feel" stuffy, or does it just sound stuffy? I don't find those mutes to be stuffy, but the sound could trick you into thinking it is. Another possibility is that the filling has been pulled up into the top of the mute and over the holes, and that it really is stuffy. ?!?!? I don't know, just guessing. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric Edwards Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:03 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Jo-Ral mute Hi All, I'm contemplating buying a Jo-Ral bucket. After playing and comparing it to my old Humes & Berg, I find it real stuffy. I know mutes are stuffy, but this really surprised me, feels worse than a practice mute. Any thoughts or suggestions, other than not buying it? I appreciate any help. Eric Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared Edwards bonearzt@cox.net "Just shut up and play!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:41:47 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Jo-Ral mute Speaking of the Jo-Ral bucket, is there a size that works with small bell throats, such as the 2B. I bought what I thought was their smallest version and it is way too big for a 2B. I'm wondering if my mute was mid-labeled, as it seems to fit a 547 horn pretty well. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:36:00 EST From: JFBermann@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute Hi Eric, I agree with you about the stuffy feel of the Jo-Ral bucket. The Humes and Berg, the old standby is still my favorite. There was a fabulous mute called the Finch mute. A guy in Vegas was making them, but not too long ago passed away. I've heard nothing of his mute being passed along for it to be made by someone else. I do have another favorite, the Soft Tone mute, I believe it was designed by Ira Nepus, a fabulous mute. Steve Ferguson also has a new design mute on his website, which I haven't tried yet. The Soft Tone is is worth getting for sure. And if you have a regular section you play with, you should all get one. Happy New Year! Jim Bermann ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:57:27 -0800 From: The Millars Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute The Eazy Bucket that Steve Ferguson sells is really good. VERY easy to use - on & off fast - much more so than the clip on H & B or the Jo-Ral. Sounds and feels fine. The Soft Tone, to me, is more of a practice mute, with a lot of resistance unless it's only halfway on. It's very compact, though. ============================================= Michael W. Millar Valencia, CA millar@music.org ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Jo-Ral mute > Hi Eric, > I agree with you about the stuffy feel of the > Jo-Ral bucket. The Humes and Berg, the > old standby is still my favorite. There was > a fabulous mute called the Finch mute. A > guy in Vegas was making them, but not too > long ago passed away. I've heard nothing > of his mute being passed along for it to be > made by someone else. I do have another > favorite, the Soft Tone mute, I believe it > was designed by Ira Nepus, a fabulous > mute. Steve Ferguson also has a new > design mute on his website, which I haven't > tried yet. The Soft Tone is is worth getting > for sure. And if you have a regular section > you play with, you should all get one. > > Happy New Year! > Jim Bermann > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:58:07 -0600 From: "John.McVey" Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute I totally agree about the Soft Tone mute. You don't necessarily cover the whole bell with it. By just draping it over the bell and adjusting how much of the bell is covered, you can easily create exactly the bucket mute sound you are looking for. The best part is that it takes up practically no room in your gig bag. John ------- Original Message -------- From: JFBermann@AOL.COM To: "TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU" CC: Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Jo-Ral mute Date: 09/01/04 Hi Eric, I agree with you about the stuffy feel of the Jo-Ral bucket. The Humes and Berg, the old standby is still my favorite. There was a fabulous mute called the Finch mute. A guy in Vegas was making them, but not too long ago passed away. I've heard nothing of his mute being passed along for it to be made by someone else. I do have another favorite, the Soft Tone mute, I believe it was designed by Ira Nepus, a fabulous mute. Steve Ferguson also has a new design mute on his website, which I haven't tried yet. The Soft Tone is is worth getting for sure. And if you have a regular section you play with, you should all get one. Happy New Year! Jim Bermann _____________________________________________________________________ This mail was sent by Cablespeed Webmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:30:00 -0800 From: Steve Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute Get an e z buck bucket mute from Kanstul or your local shop. It's much better, has a great sound, and weighs about 10lbs. less. This is really important if you play a bass trombone. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Edwards" To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:02 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Jo-Ral mute > Hi All, I'm contemplating buying a Jo-Ral bucket. > After playing and comparing it to my old Humes & Berg, I find it real > stuffy. > I know mutes are stuffy, but this really surprised me, feels worse than a > practice mute. > Any thoughts or suggestions, other than not buying it? > > I appreciate any help. > > Eric > > > > Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared > Edwards > bonearzt@cox.net > "Just shut up and play!" > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:26:31 -0500 From: sabutin Subject: One or two piece bells? (was: Rims-soldered or unsoldered. What is the difference) Just as I began to think I understood something about soldered or unsoldered rims due to the info contributed here and on my web forum, Chris Stearn (Scottish orchestral bass trombonist and world class equipment freak, genus Rath) has kindly opened up yet ANOTHER can of worms ...one or two piece bells. Chris wrote: "I think that it is not fair to compare one-piece and two-piece bells in the soldered/unsoldered debate. Bachs are one piece, like most German trombones, and some people swear by them, BUT, one effect of the one piece bell is that you have to start with the same thickness of metal for the whole bell, and when finished, the metal is either a similar thickness or even thinner as it flares out. With two-piece bells you can (and Conn did) use thinner metal for the spout and thicker metal for the flare, which is then worked to provide a gradual thickening towards the rim, and a totally different sound character, soldered or unsoldered." So..anyone have anything to add about THIS subject? Later... S. -- Sam Burtis is a NYC freelance trombonist and composer, the author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC. Visit us on the web at and/or , email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. The actual store in NYC is by appointment only. PLEASE VISIT THE OPEN HORN,A WEB FORUM Lots of interesting discussions going on every day. An introduction to the site is available at ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:22:17 -0800 From: Chris Tune Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute I just bought one from Steve Ferguson. It should have the model no. TRB8S (it's on a sticker between a couple of the corks). This does seem to protrude quite a bit for a 2B, but then this is undoubtedly because of the particular dimensions of the 2B bell. The thing is not as free blowing as a Humes and Berg clip on, but then it is much easier to put in and take out. I noticed that this recent mute was more stuffed full of fibers than the one I had bought about five or six years ago. Still, I'd hesitate to call the response of the new mute "stuffy". It sounds that way but then any bucket mute makes that heavily muffled sound effect. I thought about getting the new "slide on" clip bucket mute. This is Steve's favorite after the easy to carry Ira Nepus mute (I've got one of these too, but mine is the very early model with all kinds of foam in it. . .I like to think of this as a practice mute). The reason I didn't get it was that I'm sick of dinging and marking my bells. I may have two of my horns refurbished this year, so I don't want to immediately scar the bell with a clip on model. Anyway. Keep on using the mutes. . .it's a sign of professionalism in my not-so-humble opinion. Chris Tune Los Angeles, CA http://www.christune.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Edwards" To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:02 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Jo-Ral mute > Hi All, I'm contemplating buying a Jo-Ral bucket. > After playing and comparing it to my old Humes & Berg, I find it real > stuffy. > I know mutes are stuffy, but this really surprised me, feels worse than a > practice mute. > Any thoughts or suggestions, other than not buying it? > > I appreciate any help. > > Eric > > > > Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared > Edwards > bonearzt@cox.net > "Just shut up and play!" > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:28:33 -0500 From: Roger Carmichael Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute What I did to solve the stuffy sound was to remove about 20% of the filling. It gives it more buzz but its still a mute. Roger > [Original Message] > From: Eric Edwards > To: > Date: 1/9/04 9:02:57 AM > Subject: [TBN-L] Jo-Ral mute > > Hi All, I'm contemplating buying a Jo-Ral bucket. > After playing and comparing it to my old Humes & Berg, I find it real > stuffy. > I know mutes are stuffy, but this really surprised me, feels worse than a > practice mute. > Any thoughts or suggestions, other than not buying it? > > I appreciate any help. > > Eric > > > > Eric, Leandra, Sara & Jared > Edwards > bonearzt@cox.net > "Just shut up and play!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:18:41 -0500 From: "Denver D. Seifried" Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute I have been a very happy user of the EZ Bucket Mute, which I purchased from Steve Ferguson. I feel it is, by far, the best bucket mute and the easiest to install onto a bass trombone bell. Another one of my favorite buckets was the bucket mute made by the late Jerry Finch. This was another very light weight and easy to use bucket. Sad to say, mine developed a couple of cracks in the plastic shell of the mute and I had to quit using it. The EZ Bucket is even easier to use; however, it is just slightly heavier than Jerry's great bucket. The EZ Bucket has a sound very close to the H & B Bucket. I quit using the H & B, when one fell off my bell, during a Rosemary Clooney gig, and fell onto the back of the bari sax player's new horn, who happened to be setting in front of me. That was enough of the H&B for me! I also carry and Ira Nepus Soft-Tone and find it takes much longer to get onto and off the bell, than the EZ Tone. I use it fully on--for a practice mute and half-off for the bucket mute effect. Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music Forum Moderator-OTJ (www.trombone.org) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:17:09 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: Jo-Ral mute Yes indeedy, --- Craig Parmerlee wrote: > Speaking of the Jo-Ral bucket, is there a size that > works with small > bell throats, such as the 2B. > > I bought what I thought was their smallest version > and it is way too > big for a 2B. I'm wondering if my mute was > mid-labeled, as it seems to > fit a 547 horn pretty well. Just like the clip-on models, e.g.: H&B, the Jo-ral buckets need to be the correct size to have the proper sound, and I guess, lack of stuffiness. I have 5 different sizes & they all work very well for the instruments in which I use them. If I grab the "incorrect" size (too large or too small) for the instrument I'm playing, it just doesn't feel "right", tho I never get a stuffy feeling. So like buying instruments, you need to try out different models. If your retail shop only has one, ask them to order the other sizes. Tom With sizes for 10.5", 9.5", 8 & 8.5", 7 & 7.5", and 4" (Soprano TRb). ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire; Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra; Founding Director, The Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble; Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 8 Jan 2004 to 9 Jan 2004 (#2004-10) **************************************************************