Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 6 Mar 2003 to 7 Mar 2003 (#2003-66) Date: Saturday, March 8, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 14 messages totalling 757 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. U of Northern Colorado - Asst. Prof of Music (Tuba and other...) 2. mouthpiece gap - one more thought 3. Name that bass trombone player (5) 4. strike's on 5. 62H.... (2) 6. King 4B F-trigger help (2) 7. facial hair (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 05:38:17 -0500 From: Peter Fielding Subject: U of Northern Colorado - Asst. Prof of Music (Tuba and other...) Hello, thought I'd share a job posting I found. I know the positions is geared towards the lower of the low brass, but if someone's interested- enjoy -Peter Fielding ----------------------------------------- University of Northern Colorado #20453 Asst Prof of Music (Tuba & Marching Band or Music Education) Application Due: Open Until Filled Posted: 03/03/2003 Location: CO Type: Full Time Qualifications and Experience: Masters required; doctorate preferred. Evidence of outstanding performing ability required; previous successful teaching experience preferred. Secondary expertise in Marching Band and/or Music Education required. Position Description: Tuba and Marching Band or Music Education. This is a full time, non-tenure track position with a renewable yearly contract. The assignment will include teaching and advising tuba students, instructing related brass courses, performing with faculty chamber music groups, with additional teaching duties as needed in Music Education and/or Marching Band. The assignment may also include teaching euphonium and/or bass trombone. The successful candidate will assume an aggressive role in recruitment of tuba students by means of clinic and off-campus visitations/performances at state, regional, and national levels. Salary and Benefits: Commensurate with qualifications and experience. Benefits include health, life, and dental insurance as well as a selection of several defined contribution retirement programs. Starting Date: August 18, 2003 Contract and Application Deadline: Evaluation of materials will begin April 1 and continue until the position is filled. Letters of application should be accompanied by a resume; photocopies of all transcripts; the names, addresses, and phone numbers of al least three references; and a high-quality CD or cassette tape demonstrating the applicantÕs performance ability in various styles. Additional materials may be requested at a later date. Federal regulations require that the University retain all documents submitted by applicants for a period of one year after candidate selection has occurred. Materials submitted with the original application package will not be returned or copied for applicants. Location and Environment: The University of Northern Colorado is a Research Intensive Institution enrolling 11,000 graduate and undergraduate students. The University, founded in 1889, is located in the City of Greeley, which has a growing population of 76,000. Greeley is an hour north of Denver and 55 miles east of the Rocky Mountains. Further information about UNC and Greeley is available at http://www.unco.edu. Apply To Mail: Nathaniel Wickkham, Chair University of Northern Colorado School of Music Frasier Hall 105 Campus Box 28 Greeley, CO 80639 Phone: 970-351-2993 Fax: 970-351-1923 TDD: NA Online App: NA Via Email: nwickham@arts.unco.edu The University of Northern Colorado is an AAEO employer and is committed to fostering diversity in its student body, faculty and staff. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 07:58:00 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Subject: mouthpiece gap - one more thought Dan took my response as critical and it wasn't intend that way. But I apologize anyway. Here's the thing. If there is no gap, the contour of the beginning and end of the gap (the edges of the smaller diameter tubing on either side of the larger diameter gap) makes no difference. But if there is a gap, you can have a very sharp square edge, a smoothly rounded one, or even a long taper at either end. It would be fairly easy to gently round the inside of the mouthpiece. You could do the same to the leadpipe as well but if it didn't work that would effectively ruin the leadpipe so caution is probably in order. Why? well, the sharper the edge, the more turbulence you are likely to induce, and while I'm not sure what effect if might have, that part of the horn seems a bad place for it. Thinking about recorders, when plastic started to replace wood they also sounded worse. Eventually people realized wood ones had rounded edges on tone holes due to the softer material and drilling process, but plastic ones had tone holes with sharp right angle edges, and didn't sound as good. Idle Friday thoughts. Complication: is the ideal gap length with square edges the same as the ideal gap length with rounded ones? This could have Dan in his machine shop for years! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:00:55 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Subject: Name that bass trombone player West Coast List Members, Who played bass trombone on the Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle recordings? Could it have been George Roberts? Paul Kemp --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:10:46 -0000 From: Edward Solomon Subject: Re: Name that bass trombone player >> Who played bass trombone on the Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle recordings? Could it have been George Roberts? << Nope. It was Christopher Riddle (Nelson Riddle's son), if I remember correctly. __________________________________________ Edward Solomon British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:15:26 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: strike's on Well, here goes...I got a call from a friend in NY asking me if I could sub for him in the Hartford Symphony this weekend so he could picket. The Broadway musicians' strike is on. Here's the New York Times article: Broadway Musicians Declare Strike By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 10:14 a.m. ET NEW YORK -- Broadway's musicians went on strike early Friday, though theater producers said talks with the musicians' union would continue. Even if no agreement is reached by show time, the curtain will still rise on the 18 shows affected, said Pat Smith, a spokesman for the theater producers. Casts of several shows began rehearsing last week with computer-generated orchestras that could replace striking musicians. Outside the Broadway Theater, where ``La Boheme'' is playing, half a dozen musicians began picketing Friday morning. Theater producers ``are not going to reduce ticket prices. They're just going to get rid of musicians to add to their pockets. That's all this is about,'' said Marshall Coid, an onstage violin soloist for the musical ``Chicago.'' Live music on Broadway is important, Coid said. ``Theater is live. It's reactive. It's in the moment. It changes, it's never the same.'' A telephone recording at Local 802 of the American Federation of Musicians, which represents 325 musicians performing in current musicals, stated: ``As of midnight Thursday night, no agreement has been reached between Local 802 and the League of American Theatres and Producers. Local 802 musicians are on strike.'' The union is primarily wrangling over the issue of minimums -- the number of orchestra players required for Broadway shows. In negotiations last week, the producers proposed the number of musicians required for the large Broadway theaters be reduced to seven. The minimums at those large theaters currently range from 24 to 26. The producers originally wanted to do away with minimums altogether, saying they sometimes require shows to use more players than the shows need. The union says the minimums are essential to keep live music from disappearing on Broadway. It was unclear what effect, if any, the strike would have on other Broadway unions. Actors' Equity leaders planned a meeting and scheduled a late afternoon news conference to discuss the issue. ===== Gabe Langfur Boston, MA __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:11:44 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: 62H.... I would say Gabe is right. Having gone into the factory a couple times to try it, I know that they are rather strongly wed to the reagular-weight rose slide. They consider it a Conn trademark. As far as I know, there won't even be a lightweight option, but they're working on the dual bore (.562/.580) option. I've tried this and like it a little better than the straight slide. If they ever offer it with the sterling bell, that will be a fantastic horn (if the prototypes with that option are any clue...)! I would also agree with Gabe on the recommendation of the Getzen 1062. I got one over the Conn, it has the dual bore, and you can up-grade it with Edwards parts (I have a rose tuning slide and a bullet brace). J.c. Sherman > Dear list land > I have (a new ) 62H on approval, I really like it and may part with my > hard earned cash, but before I do , does anybody out there have > any reliable info on when/if UMI will offer a heavier slide? the shops > over here didn't know. > Many thanks, > Alex. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:22:51 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: King 4B F-trigger help Wow - some intricate solutions... Some thoughts, I like the 4B/5B setup, though I know many don't. It is rare these days to have the main bell brace in-plane with the trigger and in front of the thumb, instead of behind it. But unless you have a big hand, and the right design for your thumb :-) , it can be tricky. Most of these horns came with the "King-Ring", a large-ish ring soldered beneath the mouthpiece receiver. This can make the trigger eiser to operate for small hands, since you dont have to place your fingers ahead of the first slide brace, but can pull your forefinger farther back and down. If you don't have one, your's was probably removed (which is very common). You might want to replace it and try that if it's missing. The other idea, though a little more costly, is to replace the main bell brace and trigger assembly with equivalent parts from the Benge 190-F. The horns are very similar, and you would mostlikely get a good result from that (I haven't done such a conversion, so this is just an educated guess). You might also have to replace the tenon on the slide, but that's an inexpensive part. Anything else, I think, might prove cumbersome, unless your hand can fit comfortably ahead of the existing bell brace. If that's the case, any skilled repair tech could re-design the trigger assembly around you. J.c. Sherman > This is primarily for those who have had experience with the King trombones > with F-attachments. I don't know if the 3B has this design flaw or not. My > experience has been with the 4B and 5B. I'll try to explain the problem I'm > having in a way that is understandable. > > I recently purchased a 4B, which was reconditioned. A very nice job was done > on this horn by Taylor Music (www.1800bandusa.com). The problem I have is with > the F-attachment trigger. I have smallish hands, which makes for a difficult > time working the F-attachment trigger effectively. I find that if I hold the > horn so that it is correctly supported with my left hand, working the F- > trigger causes my thumb to press against the bell support between the knuckle > and the thumb joint. This is fairly uncomfortable. The problem lies in that > King places the pivot for the trigger behind the bell support, forcing the > player to bring the thumb around the bell support to work the trigger. When I > come to a section of music that calls for use of the trigger, especially a part > with a lot of trigger work, then I actually have to reposition my hand a bit in > order to allow for this. Then, the horn is not supported as well as IÕd > like. As I stated earlier, those with experience with King trombones of this > nature will know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. > > It seems that if I were able to do one of two things, that the problem would > be alleviated. First, if I could move the thumb contact point with the trigger > to a position of 11:00 or 10:00, this would greatly help. I envision that this > could be done by either bending the trigger itself (which I really donÕt want > to do), or by placing something on the thumb press which would in effect move > the contact point back sufficiently. Things come to mind such as layering > tape, or using the black foam that came with an Edwards Bullet Brace over the > thumb press. By the way, a Bullet Brace wonÕt work on this horn, for this > purpose. IÕve even thought about drilling a hole in the thumb press, which > would allow a bolt to through it. I would then take a round headed bolt, run a > nut or two all the way up to the bolt head, then run the bolt through the hole > in the thumb press, and then affix a nut on the opposite side. The bolt head > is then what I would be pressing upon. However, the bolt would have to be > fairly large in diameter in order to not cause pain in the thumb for pressing > upon it a great deal. > > The other possible solution would be to place something upon the bell support > brace that would effectively move the pivot point of my thumb rearward a bit, > enough to be able to allow my thumb to approach the thumb press from a bit more > of an angle than is currently available. > > I guess the real problem lies in the fact that the bell brace doesnÕt sit > nicely in the crook of my hand between my thumb and forefinger, like I believe > King designers had envisioned. There is a slight contact between crook and > brace, but I donÕt actually ÒrestÓ the horn in this crook. At least not like > I do my Benge 190C which has the Bullet Brace on it. > > If any of you have ever dealt with this scenario, I would certainly be glad to > know how you did so. I really donÕt want to send the horn back because of > this. I love the way it plays, and it offers me exactly what IÕve been looking > for in a horn in terms of slide action, slotting, response, and weight. > > IÕm posting this on both the ÒLÓ and in the OTJ forum. So, if you reply to > this on one source, please donÕt feel obligated to reply to it in the other, > unless you would like your reply available in both forums. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:36:02 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: King 4B F-trigger help I suppose I should've added that if you had the mechanical linkage, it is fairly easy to change to an adjustable string linkage, which also may cure the problem - you can set the thumb lever pretty high. I'm pretty sure the parts are readily available, fairly cheap, and very quiet :-) J.c. Sherman > Wow - some intricate solutions... > > Some thoughts, > > I like the 4B/5B setup, though I know many don't. It is rare these days to > have the main bell brace in-plane with the trigger and in front of the thumb, > instead of behind it. But unless you have a big hand, and the right design for > your thumb :-) , it can be tricky. > > Most of these horns came with the "King-Ring", a large-ish ring soldered > beneath the mouthpiece receiver. This can make the trigger eiser to operate > for small hands, since you dont have to place your fingers ahead of the first > slide brace, but can pull your forefinger farther back and down. If you don't > have one, your's was probably removed (which is very common). You might want > to replace it and try that if it's missing. > > The other idea, though a little more costly, is to replace the main bell brace > and trigger assembly with equivalent parts from the Benge 190-F. The horns are > very similar, and you would mostlikely get a good result from that (I haven't > done such a conversion, so this is just an educated guess). You might also > have to replace the tenon on the slide, but that's an inexpensive part. > > Anything else, I think, might prove cumbersome, unless your hand can fit > comfortably ahead of the existing bell brace. If that's the case, any skilled > repair tech could re-design the trigger assembly around you. > > J.c. Sherman > > This is primarily for those who have had experience with the King trombones > > with F-attachments. I don't know if the 3B has this design flaw or not. My > > experience has been with the 4B and 5B. I'll try to explain the problem I'm > > having in a way that is understandable. > > > > I recently purchased a 4B, which was reconditioned. A very nice job was done > > on this horn by Taylor Music (www.1800bandusa.com). The problem I have is > with > > the F-attachment trigger. I have smallish hands, which makes for a difficult > > time working the F-attachment trigger effectively. I find that if I hold the > > horn so that it is correctly supported with my left hand, working the F- > > trigger causes my thumb to press against the bell support between the knuckle > > and the thumb joint. This is fairly uncomfortable. The problem lies in that > > King places the pivot for the trigger behind the bell support, forcing the > > player to bring the thumb around the bell support to work the trigger. When > I > > > come to a section of music that calls for use of the trigger, especially a > part > > with a lot of trigger work, then I actually have to reposition my hand a bit > in > > order to allow for this. Then, the horn is not supported as well as IÕd > > like. As I stated earlier, those with experience with King trombones of this > > nature will know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. > > > > It seems that if I were able to do one of two things, that the problem would > > be alleviated. First, if I could move the thumb contact point with the > trigger > > to a position of 11:00 or 10:00, this would greatly help. I envision that > this > > could be done by either bending the trigger itself (which I really donÕt want > > to do), or by placing something on the thumb press which would in effect move > > the contact point back sufficiently. Things come to mind such as layering > > tape, or using the black foam that came with an Edwards Bullet Brace over the > > thumb press. By the way, a Bullet Brace wonÕt work on this horn, for this > > > purpose. IÕve even thought about drilling a hole in the thumb press, which > > would allow a bolt to through it. I would then take a round headed bolt, run > a > > nut or two all the way up to the bolt head, then run the bolt through the hole > > in the thumb press, and then affix a nut on the opposite side. The bolt head > > is then what I would be pressing upon. However, the bolt would have to be > > fairly large in diameter in order to not cause pain in the thumb for pressing > > upon it a great deal. > > > > The other possible solution would be to place something upon the bell support > > brace that would effectively move the pivot point of my thumb rearward a bit, > > enough to be able to allow my thumb to approach the thumb press from a bit > more > > of an angle than is currently available. > > > > I guess the real problem lies in the fact that the bell brace doesnÕt sit > > nicely in the crook of my hand between my thumb and forefinger, like I believe > > King designers had envisioned. There is a slight contact between crook and > > > brace, but I donÕt actually ÒrestÓ the horn in this crook. At least not like > > I do my Benge 190C which has the Bullet Brace on it. > > > > If any of you have ever dealt with this scenario, I would certainly be glad to > > know how you did so. I really donÕt want to send the horn back because of > > this. I love the way it plays, and it offers me exactly what IÕve been > looking > > for in a horn in terms of slide action, slotting, response, and weight. > > > > IÕm posting this on both the ÒLÓ and in the OTJ forum. So, if you reply to > > this on one source, please donÕt feel obligated to reply to it in the other, > > unless you would like your reply available in both forums. > > > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:04:45 -0800 From: Ralph Bigelow Subject: Re: Name that bass trombone player On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:10:46 -0000, Edward Solomon wrote: >>> Who played bass trombone on the Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle >>> recordings? > Could it have been George Roberts? << > > Nope. It was Christopher Riddle (Nelson Riddle's son), if I remember > correctly. > __________________________________________ > > Edward Solomon > British Trombone Society Webmaster > mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk > > Visit "The Trombonist Online" - > the online magazine of the > British Trombone Society > http://www.trombone-society.org.uk > __________________________________________ > I called Geroge this afternoon to ask him...he said that he did a few of the Linda Ronstadt things with Riddle, but that Chris did most of them. Ralph Bigelow BonesWest -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:05:45 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: facial hair >Anyone here have any thoughts on playing with a moustache? > >I've had a moustache consistently for the last 10 years. Not only >does it cover up my 'ring', but it seems to allow me to make minor >shift adjustments without too much trouble. Yesterday, I shave my >moustache and when I played it felt great. I imagine the feeling >will even out soon. I liken the euphoric state that I experienced >to trying a new mouthpiece. At first, it feels so much better, but >eventually you find that the same problems exist. ============== Forgive my late answer. Busy times... blizzards, gigs,the store, writing... When I finally got completely rid of my moustache...even after having trimmed it way up for years so I thought it wouldn't interfere too much w/my emboushure...I experienced an almost instant quantum leap in my playing. It never went away. This will not be true for everyone, but it was for me. Good luck w/it... Sam -- (Sam Burtis is a NYC freelance trombonist and composer, the author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at and/or , email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. The actual store in NYC is by appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:46:10 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: facial hair Sam, IÕm glad you resurrected the facial hair thread. I wanted to mention how wonderful itÕs been to imagine all my faceless friends with the various descriptions of their facial hair. DanP _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:10:30 -0600 From: Gary Greenhoe Subject: Re: 62H.... Hello? The regular 62-H slide is yellow brass and fairly lightweight. IF you check Conn slide kits, there is a lightweight .562 slide, again yellow brass tubes. What Alex was asking was for a heavier slide. The latest factory variant, SL 6262, is nickel sleeved rose brass tubed .562 heavier slide, which Alex doesn't have on approval. Regards. Gary -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of J.c. Sherman Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:12 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] 62H.... I would say Gabe is right. Having gone into the factory a couple times to try it, I know that they are rather strongly wed to the reagular-weight rose slide. They consider it a Conn trademark. As far as I know, there won't even be a lightweight option, but they're working on the dual bore (.562/.580) option. I've tried this and like it a little better than the straight slide. If they ever offer it with the sterling bell, that will be a fantastic horn (if the prototypes with that option are any clue...)! I would also agree with Gabe on the recommendation of the Getzen 1062. I got one over the Conn, it has the dual bore, and you can up-grade it with Edwards parts (I have a rose tuning slide and a bullet brace). J.c. Sherman > Dear list land > I have (a new ) 62H on approval, I really like it and may part with my > hard earned cash, but before I do , does anybody out there have > any reliable info on when/if UMI will offer a heavier slide? the shops > over here didn't know. > Many thanks, > Alex. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 21:11:07 -0500 From: john burton Subject: Re: Name that bass trombone player I don't have "What's New" or "Lush Life" in front of me at the moment, but just happened to have "For Sentimental Reasons" on the CD. Chauncey Welsch seems to be the man on that album. BTW... Lots of good info and a few tidbits on http://www.ronstadt-linda.com if you enjoy her music.... ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= john burton Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra South Charleston, West Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Ralph Bigelow Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:05 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Name that bass trombone player On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:10:46 -0000, Edward Solomon wrote: >>> Who played bass trombone on the Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle >>> recordings? > Could it have been George Roberts? << > > Nope. It was Christopher Riddle (Nelson Riddle's son), if I remember > correctly. __________________________________________ > > Edward Solomon > British Trombone Society Webmaster > mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk > > Visit "The Trombonist Online" - > the online magazine of the > British Trombone Society > http://www.trombone-society.org.uk > __________________________________________ > I called Geroge this afternoon to ask him...he said that he did a few of the Linda Ronstadt things with Riddle, but that Chris did most of them. Ralph Bigelow BonesWest -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 20:14:45 -0700 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: Name that bass trombone player I found a picture in a book on page 229 ("September in the Rain, The Life of Nelson Riddle," by Peter J. Levinson) that shows Nelson Riddle standing between a young looking George Roberts and an early teenage looking Chris Riddle. The caption notes that Chris was then studying with George, so there is a link. I met George at the Nashville ITF and it was a real thrill (great guy). David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA Trombone, Denver Concert Band Ralph Bigelow wrote: > On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:10:46 -0000, Edward Solomon > wrote: > > >>> Who played bass trombone on the Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle > >>> recordings? > > Could it have been George Roberts? << > > > > Nope. It was Christopher Riddle (Nelson Riddle's son), if I remember > > correctly. > > __________________________________________ > > > > Edward Solomon > > British Trombone Society Webmaster > > mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk > > > > Visit "The Trombonist Online" - > > the online magazine of the > > British Trombone Society > > http://www.trombone-society.org.uk > > __________________________________________ > > > > I called Geroge this afternoon to ask him...he said that he did a few of > the Linda Ronstadt things with Riddle, but that Chris did most of them. > > Ralph Bigelow > BonesWest > > -- ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 6 Mar 2003 to 7 Mar 2003 (#2003-66) **************************************************************