Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 4 Mar 2003 to 5 Mar 2003 (#2003-64) Date: Thursday, March 6, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 10 messages totalling 410 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Was ideal gap? - now Remington 2. Was ideal gap?-now Remington (2) 3. John Fedchock with the DJO 4. Is there an ideal gap? 5. 62H.... (4) 6. King 4B F-trigger help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:47:10 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Was ideal gap? - now Remington >Wayne (and Sam)...the reason that I jumped in on this is that the used Bach >6 1/2 A that I have SEEMS to work fine. Contrary to the thread, it isn't >loose. It has what I believe to be the original leadpipe. And...it's not a >Remington shank. > >I keep getting told it isn't the right shank...so that's why I asked. It >fits snug -- and supposedly it shouldn't. > >Any theories? I also have a "receiver" that a small shank will fit in and >play in the 88H. Putting a small shank 6 1/2 AL in it makes it about 3/8" >longer than the 6 1/2 A. > >Price ========= Price... There are so many possible variables...original workmanship on the m'pce and receiver, wear, changes over the years if they are not first owner equipment...I just go w/what works and don't ask too many questions, myself. Also...3/8" is a big difference. 1/16" increments can make a difference. Good luck... S. >-----Original Message----- >From: Trombones and related issues forum. >[mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Wayne Dyess >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:02 PM >To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU >Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Was ideal gap? - now Remington > > >>From: "Price Taylor" >>> I have a 1959 Conn 88H...which has the Remington shank. >> >>I'm surprised your large bore Bach mouthpiece fits properly - unless you >>meant the mouthpiece itself has a Remington shank. Bach makes a special >>mouthpiece - such as the 5GR - R meaning Remington which fits perfectly. >> >>I find that Schilke's are a decent compromise while standard Bach's do not >>fit well. > > >I have a couple of Bach mouthpieces that fit perfectly, too. But you >have to ASK for the Remington or Conn 88H shank. Then and only then >do they fit right. > >:-) >Wayne >-- >========================= > Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music > Lamar University Music Department > P. O. Box 10044 > Beaumont, Texas 77710 > 409-880-8146 > FAX: 409-880-8143 >dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu >http://www.lamar.edu -- (Sam Burtis is a NYC freelance trombonist and composer, the author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at and/or , email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. The actual store in NYC is by appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:33:23 -0500 From: Denver Seifried Subject: Re: Was ideal gap?-now Remington I have owned an Elkhart Conn 62H since the early 1970's, and before I had Larry Minick make me a couple of his lead pipes (with Bach shank tapers), I always ordered the Conn Remington shank on all of my mouthpieces, such as Schilkes and Bachs. I remember comparing a standard shank Bach 1.5G with the special Remington shank Bach 1.5G and there was quite a distinct difference, especially in the overall length of the two mouthpieces. The Remington shanked 1.5G was slightly longer in total length, and of course, the shank had a special taper Gary Greenhoe referred to. I especially remember the long wait, about 8 months, to get that special order 1.5G from Bach! Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:49:06 -0500 From: Denver Seifried Subject: John Fedchock with the DJO SW Ohio trombonists please be aware that The Dayton Jazz Orchestra, along with featured trombonist, John Fedchock, will have their monthly Pasta & Jazz & John Fedchock evening at Dayton's Spaghetti Warehouse, this Thursday evening (March 6th), from 7:30-9:30. This will be a great chance to meet John, as this is a very casual gig and a good chance to meet and talk with John Fedchock. I would highly checking for reservations, as our monthly gig a Spaghetti Warehouse usually gets booked very full. Call this number to check on table space--937-461-3913. Please check the DJO webpage for more info and driving directions: www.daytonjazzorchestra.com and the bone section will be: Linda Landis (lead), Vaughn Wiester (2nd), John Hoff (3rd), and Denny Seifried (bass). As an added bonus, John Fedchock will also appear earlier in the afternoon in a clinic session at Kettering Fairmont High School from 3:30 to 5:00. Kettering Fairmont H.S. is located in the southern part of Dayton, at 3301 Shroyer Road, Kettering OH. See you there! Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Dayton Jazz Orchestra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:21:13 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Is there an ideal gap? I have a King Duo-Grav slide on my reynolds/bach bell. I have the same issue - mouthpieces go in too far (making it impossible to use a tone intensifier/mouthpiece weight - grrrr...) I've checked it out and it's just how the venturi tube/leadpipe is shaped. I suspect that those duo-grav receivers stretch out over time - just a guess. They're not heavily reinforced against stretching. J.c.S. > Bob Osmun said > > "Gabe is right that there is no "gap" on most trombones. It only is present > on some small bore models i.e. King 2B with a machined "trumpet style" > receiver." > > I wondered about this on my King for some time, thinking maybe I had a piece > missing? I have this "gap" and any mouthpiece I've tried in the horn fits in a > lot farther than my other horns. There is a definite lip just past the end of > the mouthpiece. It's not a small bore though, it's a Duo Gravis. What gives? Do > I have an oddball? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:14:23 -0700 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: Was ideal gap?-now Remington Not only length, but the special order Bach with Remington shanks have a much larger lip at the end of the mouthpiece. It's pretty clear the *only* thing Bach does with those is to turn them to proper taper. > > I have owned an Elkhart Conn 62H since the early 1970's, and before I had > Larry Minick make me a couple of his lead pipes (with Bach shank > tapers), I > always ordered the Conn Remington shank on all of my mouthpieces, such as > Schilkes and Bachs. I remember comparing a standard shank Bach > 1.5G with the > special Remington shank Bach 1.5G and there was quite a distinct > difference, > especially in the overall length of the two mouthpieces. The Remington > shanked 1.5G was slightly longer in total length, and of course, the shank > had a special taper Gary Greenhoe referred to. > > I especially remember the long wait, about 8 months, to get that special > order 1.5G from Bach! > > Denny Seifried > Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra > Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:09:30 -0000 From: Lisa Nelsen Subject: 62H.... Dear list land I have (a new ) 62H on approval, I really like it and may part with my hard earned cash, but before I do , does anybody out there have=20 any reliable info on when/if UMI will offer a heavier slide? the shops=20 over here didn't know. Many thanks, Alex.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:15:38 -0800 From: Gabriel Langfur Subject: Re: 62H.... --- Lisa Nelsen wrote: > Dear list land > I have (a new ) 62H on approval, I really like it and may > part with my > hard earned cash, but before I do , does anybody out > there have > any reliable info on when/if UMI will offer a heavier > slide? the shops > over here didn't know. > Many thanks, > Alex. If I had to guess I'd say never, but I'm always skeptical of the big companies. The 62H is a very nice horn as is, but I can see why you'd want a heavier slide for it - the sound is ultimately a little light for my tastes. You might try adding a counterweight to it, or maybe the Ralph Sauer Brace from Gary Greenhoe. Either option would be much less expensive than an additional slide and would accomplish similar things. If you want a similar horn with a more weighty sound, you might try the Getzen 1062, which I understand now comes with a couple of different slide options. I think most retailers even sell it for less than the Conn. ===== Gabe Langfur Boston, MA __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:28:53 -0600 From: Gary Greenhoe Subject: Re: 62H.... HI Alex, Yes, the 62-H is available ..if not right now..soon, with a heavier slide. SL6262 is the reference #. Also feel free to visit us for information on the Greenhoe/Conn 62-H possibilities. These horns will outperform any bass trombone on the market. Gary Greenhoe Greenhoe Musical Instrument Components Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra gary@greenhoe.com http://www.greenhoe.com 262-677-0460 -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Lisa Nelsen Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 3:10 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] 62H.... Dear list land I have (a new ) 62H on approval, I really like it and may part with my hard earned cash, but before I do , does anybody out there have any reliable info on when/if UMI will offer a heavier slide? the shops over here didn't know. Many thanks, Alex. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:40:42 -0600 From: Barry Green Subject: Re: 62H.... on 3/5/03 6:28 PM, Gary Greenhoe at gary@GREENHOE.COM wrote: > HI Alex, > > Yes, the 62-H is available ..if not right now..soon, with a heavier slide. > SL6262 is the reference #. > > Also feel free to visit us for information on the Greenhoe/Conn 62-H > possibilities. These horns will outperform any bass trombone on the market. > > Gary Greenhoe > Greenhoe Musical Instrument Components > Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra > gary@greenhoe.com > http://www.greenhoe.com > 262-677-0460 > Dear listers, I was in San Antonio for TMEA a couple of weeks ago to play with the Modern Jazz Tuba Project and had the pleasure of playing several Greenhoe Conns and they felt and sounded awesome! Also Kevin Saunders was very helpful and informative. Barry Green Nashville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 04:20:53 +0000 From: rkeilitz@ATT.NET Subject: King 4B F-trigger help This is primarily for those who have had experience with the King trombones with F-attachments. I don't know if the 3B has this design flaw or not. My experience has been with the 4B and 5B. I'll try to explain the problem I'm having in a way that is understandable. I recently purchased a 4B, which was reconditioned. A very nice job was done on this horn by Taylor Music (www.1800bandusa.com). The problem I have is with the F-attachment trigger. I have smallish hands, which makes for a difficult time working the F-attachment trigger effectively. I find that if I hold the horn so that it is correctly supported with my left hand, working the F- trigger causes my thumb to press against the bell support between the knuckle and the thumb joint. This is fairly uncomfortable. The problem lies in that King places the pivot for the trigger behind the bell support, forcing the player to bring the thumb around the bell support to work the trigger. When I come to a section of music that calls for use of the trigger, especially a part with a lot of trigger work, then I actually have to reposition my hand a bit in order to allow for this. Then, the horn is not supported as well as IÕd like. As I stated earlier, those with experience with King trombones of this nature will know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It seems that if I were able to do one of two things, that the problem would be alleviated. First, if I could move the thumb contact point with the trigger to a position of 11:00 or 10:00, this would greatly help. I envision that this could be done by either bending the trigger itself (which I really donÕt want to do), or by placing something on the thumb press which would in effect move the contact point back sufficiently. Things come to mind such as layering tape, or using the black foam that came with an Edwards Bullet Brace over the thumb press. By the way, a Bullet Brace wonÕt work on this horn, for this purpose. IÕve even thought about drilling a hole in the thumb press, which would allow a bolt to through it. I would then take a round headed bolt, run a nut or two all the way up to the bolt head, then run the bolt through the hole in the thumb press, and then affix a nut on the opposite side. The bolt head is then what I would be pressing upon. However, the bolt would have to be fairly large in diameter in order to not cause pain in the thumb for pressing upon it a great deal. The other possible solution would be to place something upon the bell support brace that would effectively move the pivot point of my thumb rearward a bit, enough to be able to allow my thumb to approach the thumb press from a bit more of an angle than is currently available. I guess the real problem lies in the fact that the bell brace doesnÕt sit nicely in the crook of my hand between my thumb and forefinger, like I believe King designers had envisioned. There is a slight contact between crook and brace, but I donÕt actually ÒrestÓ the horn in this crook. At least not like I do my Benge 190C which has the Bullet Brace on it. If any of you have ever dealt with this scenario, I would certainly be glad to know how you did so. I really donÕt want to send the horn back because of this. I love the way it plays, and it offers me exactly what IÕve been looking for in a horn in terms of slide action, slotting, response, and weight. IÕm posting this on both the ÒLÓ and in the OTJ forum. So, if you reply to this on one source, please donÕt feel obligated to reply to it in the other, unless you would like your reply available in both forums. Bob ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 4 Mar 2003 to 5 Mar 2003 (#2003-64) **************************************************************