Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 22 Feb 2003 to 23 Feb 2003 (#2003-54) Date: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 13 messages totalling 394 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Mouthpiece Tone Enhancer Question 2. Mouthpiece Suggestions for G Bass (3) 3. Tone enhancers (2) 4. TEST 5. Trombone Choir Concert in Minneapolis 6. was mouthpiece: now plaster 7. While we're on the topic of mouthpieces... 8. Urgent help needed! Ricky Martin Horn Chart (2) 9. Urgent help needed! Ricky Martin Horn Chart ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:23:25 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Mouthpiece Tone Enhancer Question From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" > Walter F. Smith discovered back in the '20's that encasing an Army > regulation bugle in a block of plaster did not affect its tone. I presume he had a very understanding and sympathetic drill sergeant. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:28:47 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Mouthpiece Suggestions for G Bass From: "Robert E. Brown" > I recently acquired a G bass without mouthpiece. One suggestion has been to > take a 1-1/2 G or similar and have the shank turned down to fit the smaller > receiver. Any other thoughts, particularly from those with experience in > playing this beastie? The few G basses I've ever seen came with green brass mps with fur growing inside. Don't know if that has anything to do with their tone quality. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 05:39:32 -0600 From: Corliss Subject: Tone enhancers In my last post I asked this question: "I would like to know whether = there is any real difference whether the mass is added to the mouthpiece = itself or to the shaft of the mouthpiece as the enhancers do." In the = middle of the night I woke and said to myself, "Dummy, you have the = material to do some checking on this yourself!"=20 Here's what I was thinking. I said that I had a heavy early New York 15c = that is heavier than normal. Looking more closely I see that it is a = 15d. For those not familiar with the 'New York' name on Bach mouthpiece, = they came out earlier than the Mt Vernon ones. In other words they were = the very first. I also have a Mt Vernon 15d that has the normal weight. = So, why not add my substitute tone enhancer - a heavy nut - to the Mt = Vernon 15d and compare it with the New York 15d! I did that and they = ended up sounding very much the same to me. It would have been nice to = have a second party check to see whether that party heard what I heard, = but that was not possible. The same applies to what I say below.=20 The work 'dark' is controversial when it comes to describing the result = of tone enhancers so I am going to avoid using it and talk=20 about degrees of brightness - less bright may not involve being dark. = Everyone I think will recognize that a 11c is less bright than a 12c and = a 11 is less bright than a 11c. What happens if I add the heavy nut to = the 12c? On the brightness scale it comes very close to the 11. In fact = both the heavy 15d and the 15d with nut come close to the 11 on the = brightness scale. What seems to happen is that certain overtones = resulting from a shallow mouthpiece get cancelled when significant = weight is added.=20 Two more interesting things happened. When I added the heavy nut to the = heavy 15d there was not much difference in brightness. In other words = the added weight of the 15d seems to cancel overtones and the added = weight may have cancelled more but I=20 couldn't detect it.=20 I did these experiments on an Olds Super. It was the brightness of the = Super that got me into these experiments. When I do the same experiments = on the King 2b the results were not as obvious. In other words the Super = seems to have more of the overtones that can be cancelled by added = weight.=20 This thread began, as I recall, with a bass trombonist asking about tone = enhancers and most who have participated in this thread have been bass = trombone players. It would be nice for some who work with small bores to = perform the same kind of experiments to see whether they get a similar = result.=20 Richard Corliss ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:01:08 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Mouthpiece Suggestions for G Bass My set up for my G bass (1972 Besson International, so 0.53"ish bore with D trigger) is a Doug Elliot XT J cup with a J8E shank. I use an XT 106 rim. Makes a nice round sound, comparable with a modern bass but with more edge. Very popular with brass band conductors for playing marches so I swap over to the G/D for those. You don't need a broad tone when there's four tubas pumping away. Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Scott" To: Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Mouthpiece Suggestions for G Bass > One other option is to try some Doug Elliott parts - I'm sure he can > make a shank to fit, and you can experiment with different cups and rims > to find a balance between your comfort, and what will fit the bore of > the horn. I would guess that you wouldn't want much deeper than his "G" > or "H" cup, but he can supply that with a larger rim if you want, to be > closer to whatever you play on regular bass trombone. > > Jim Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:02:35 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Mouthpiece Suggestions for G Bass From: "Keith Marr" > Makes a nice round sound, comparable with a modern bass but with more edge. > Very popular with brass band conductors for playing marches so I swap over > to the G/D for those. You don't need a broad tone when there's four tubas > pumping away. You're not kiddin' Keith. I've always maintained that the brass band is swamped by saxhorn and tuba tone. Put a quartet of trumpets in place of that back row of cornets. Use french horns instead of those tenor and baritone thingies. In the meantime, instead of trying to blend in with the rest of them, maybe some REAL trombone tone might help. Ducking for cover. The wrath of the traditionalists is upon me. Ouch, that hurt. Pardon moi, the trombone's not supposed to go at that end. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:39:22 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hugo_Garc=EDa_Sampedro?= Subject: TEST just a test mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:06:04 -0500 From: Roger Carmichael Subject: Re: Tone enhancers Yeah, it was probably me that started all this. Of the "Yes, a mouthpiece enhancer darkens the tone" responses, most were from tenor trombonists. Practically all the "no" votes were from fellow bass trombonists who told me what would happen, and it did. Percentage wise, the addition of weight to a lightweight horn (ie, straight tenor) probably makes more difference than when one adds approximately the same poundage to the mouthpiece of a double rotor bass trombone already pushing 9 lbs. In the test on my trombone, the tone got nasty. I take the position that if I don't like the sound, neither will my audience. Roger Carmichael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corliss" To: Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:39 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Tone enhancers This thread began, as I recall, with a bass trombonist asking about tone enhancers and most who have participated in this thread have been bass trombone players. It would be nice for some who work with small bores to perform the same kind of experiments to see whether they get a similar result. Richard Corliss ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:50:57 -0800 From: "James W. Yardley" Subject: Trombone Choir Concert in Minneapolis Sorry for the such short notice, but if anyone from the Twin Cities area finds themselves with nothing to do tonight (Sunday, Feb. 23), the Minneapolis Trombone Choir and UW-Eau Claire Trombone Choir will be giving a concert at Judson Memorial Baptist church at 7:30pm. The address of the church is 4101 Harriet Avenue South, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55409. I'm not sure what the Minneapolis Trombone Choir has planned, but the Eau Claire group will be performing Ewazen's Posaunenstadt, Mendelssohn's Holy Is God The Lord, from Elijah (Ostrander), and Michael Davis' Points West to name a few. Hope to see you there. Take care, James Yardley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:05:48 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: was mouthpiece: now plaster On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Adrian Drover wrote: > > Walter F. Smith discovered back in the '20's that encasing an Army > > regulation bugle in a block of plaster did not affect its tone. > > > I presume he had a very understanding and sympathetic drill sergeant. > He himself was the sergeant major, and 2nd leader of the Marine Band. Just liked experimentin'. Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:23:09 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: While we're on the topic of mouthpieces... Has anyone experimented with different materials? If so, to what effect. Different brass mixtures (yellow brass vs. gold brass vs. rose brass). I know Yamaha makes a Sterling Silver trumpet mouthpiece (now that is an expensive one). I've also heard of others having their mouthpieces heat treated. Since everybody got on the mouthpiece jag, I just had to ask. ;-) On an interesting side note, I remember seeing a mouthpiece Andrew Glendenning did as a Winter Term project at Oberlin where he made a trombone with a cup out of parafin to see if it would work (I know that's an over-simplification of his project, but at least mostly right). I think that will be my next mouthpiece; a Greg Black Heavy-Weight, Parafin Cup, 1 1/2G rim with a 12C cup. Oughta be pretty sweet...(tongue firmly planted in cheek) :-) Chris Dearth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:44:39 -0800 From: Jim Robins Subject: Urgent help needed! Ricky Martin Horn Chart I know I have uttered a trombone blasphemy in my subject line, but I need help! I have a rehearsal tomorrow for the cover band I'm in and am in quite the pickle on coming up for a chart for "She Bangs" by Ricky Martin. If any of you club types out there have a chart that you'd be willing to pass along, it would be much appreciated. E-mail me and we can talk prices too! Thanks! Jim ===== James Robins Band Director - Hampstead Middle School, Hampstead, NH Freelance Trombonist - New England Area Kappa Kappa Psi - Iota Phi Alumni http://www.geocities.com/nhtrombone __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:47:11 -0800 From: Jim Robins Subject: Urgent help needed! Ricky Martin Horn Chart I know I have uttered a trombone blasphemy in my subject line, but I need help! I have a rehearsal tomorrow for the cover band I'm in and am in quite the pickle on coming up for a three horn chart for "She Bangs" by Ricky Martin. If any of you club types out there have a chart that you'd be willing to pass along, it would be much appreciated. E-mail me and we can talk prices too! Thanks! Jim ===== James Robins Band Director - Hampstead Middle School, Hampstead, NH Freelance Trombonist - New England Area Kappa Kappa Psi - Iota Phi Alumni http://www.geocities.com/nhtrombone __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:33:26 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Urgent help needed! Ricky Martin Horn Chart you are in big trouble --i suggest you fess up --and work out the chords w guitarist after listening to the recording ----you can always lie too and say -uh i did an arrangement but its in another key parallel universe or something Jim Robins wrote: > I know I have uttered a trombone blasphemy in my subject line, but I > need help! I have a rehearsal tomorrow for the cover band I'm in and > am in quite the pickle on coming up for a chart for "She Bangs" by > Ricky Martin. If any of you club types out there have a chart that > you'd be willing to pass along, it would be much appreciated. E-mail > me and we can talk prices too! Thanks! > > Jim > > ===== > James Robins > Band Director - Hampstead Middle School, Hampstead, NH > Freelance Trombonist - New England Area > Kappa Kappa Psi - Iota Phi Alumni > http://www.geocities.com/nhtrombone > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 22 Feb 2003 to 23 Feb 2003 (#2003-54) ****************************************************************