Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Feb 2003 to 17 Feb 2003 (#2003-48) Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 27 messages totalling 1071 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Yamaha YSL-643 / 643 II (3) 2. bone/trumpet double (3) 3. brass doubling 4. OTJ Classifieds Update- 2/17/2003 5. I've got to preview what I send; ITA Latin Trombonists article 6. Vladislav Blazhevich (3) 7. Mark Twain on Trombone 8. In replies... 9. Responses to my question 10. (Thanks) Vladislav Blazhevich 11. Yamaha YSL-643 / 643 II///////681 b play test 12. Lacquer Questions (8) 13. Understatement of the week! 14. Fwd: Valve Trombones ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:02:08 +0000 From: rkeilitz@ATT.NET Subject: Yamaha YSL-643 / 643 II Hi folks! Can anyone speak authoritatively to the differences between the Yamaha YSL-643R and the 643R II? Both are supposed to be .551 bore instruments. There is one web page at the Yamaha site where I can look short specs on older horns, but it only lists the 643. And if anyone can speak directly as to a comparison between either of the models listed above, and the new YSL-682G horns, that would be appreciated too! I've also posted this question in the OTJ Forum, Instruments section. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:00:30 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Yamaha YSL-643 / 643 II ask kurt witt of yamaha ----might be change in outerslide or something ysl 653///651 may have undergone simian evolution rkeilitz@ATT.NET wrote: > Hi folks! > > Can anyone speak authoritatively to the differences between the Yamaha YSL-643R > and the 643R II? Both are supposed to be .551 bore instruments. There is one > web page at the Yamaha site where I can look short specs on older horns, but it > only lists the 643. > > And if anyone can speak directly as to a comparison between either of the > models listed above, and the new YSL-682G horns, that would be appreciated too! > > I've also posted this question in the OTJ Forum, Instruments section. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 02:21:58 -0500 From: TRBNTERRY Subject: Re: bone/trumpet double I've been doing it for 40 some years. At first it was doubling on valve trombone. Later I switched to slide. Today it's trumpet, tenor trombone, bass trombone, euphonium, tuba, tenor sax and vibes. I play a lot of gigs using trumpet, trombone, euphonium and tenor sax. Once, when a tuba player failed to show up on a dixieland gig, I ended up playing melody on trumpet, jazz choruses on trombone and tuba behind the other soloists. Amazingly, I kept feeling stronger by the hour. There's not enough to be said about having the right equipment and setup to make this possible. Just one poor combination of horn and mouthpiece can kill all the joy of doubling. The only horns I practice on a daily basis are trumpet and trombone. Since the purpose of this forum is based on sharing info which someone might find beneficial, here's my setup after many years of hit and miss, for what it's worth: TRUMPET: Wild Thing w/ Mark Curry 5M mpc TROMBONE: Martin Urbie Green w/ Schilke 42B mpc BASS TROMBONE: Blessing B98 with converted open wrap, 1 1/2 GM mega mpc. EUPHONIUM: Besson 967 w/ Schilke 51C4 mpc TUBA: Tourville circa 1900 Eb w/ Bach 30E mpc (originally low pitched F tuba, converted to Eb using two mouthpiece bits and extended tuning slide. Requires about 10 extra inches of tubing to lower pitch one step) TENOR SAX: Selmer Mark VI w/ Runyon red plastic mpc, Rico Royal #3 reeds. Needless to say, I've spent a lot of time, energy and money trying to find the combinations that work for me. In the long run, it's paid off. It's such a jungle today in trying to find quality in both horns and mouthpieces. After all these years, I can honestly say that I've just about reached the end of that road, equipment-wise. After that, it's the challenge of staying in shape and the relentless pursuit of perfection. That's what helps making music such a joy. Best Regards, Mike Terry "No man is so ignorant as the one who claims he isn't. Life is far too short to become enlightened on all subjects. We are all ignorant, except on different subjects. A musician's training begins at a very early age and lasts a lifetime. Excellence requires many years of hard work and struggle and deserves reward in like manner to the other top-rated professions." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:42:00 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: brass doubling From: "Tom Izzo" > Oh heck, my Brass Quintet still does this. We ALL play > Trumpet & we ALL play Trombone, (1 plays F Horn, & 1 > plays Tuba), and we ALL pkay Percussion. > For the record (since this conversation intrigues many > of you): > Player 1: Picc, Sopranino & Sop Trumpets, Sopranino & > Sop Cornets, Flugel, Sop Trb, Perc. > Player 2: Sopranino & Sop Trpts, Bb Cornet, Flugel, > Sop & Tenor Trbs, Alto Sax, Piano, Perc, Timp. > Player 3: Picc& Sop Trpts, Sopranino & Sop Cornets, > Flugel, F Horn, Sop & Tenor Trbs, SATB Saxes, Bassoon, > Clar, Keyboards, Perc. > Player 4: Bass Trpt, Tenor Trbs (sm & lge), Tenor & > Bar Hns, Euph, Harmonica, Perc. > Player 5 (me): Sop & Bass Trpts, Alto, Tenor, Bass & > CBTrbs, Euph, Tuba, String & Elect Bassi, Recorders, > Flute, Oboe, Drums. Sop Sax, Perc Tom, what do the neighbours have to say about the two 18-wheelers parked in your driveway? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:47:36 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: OTJ Classifieds Update- 2/17/2003 The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 6:47 AM CST on February 17, 2003. - - - - - Thank you for using the OTJ Classifieds! - - - - - OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp OTJ Gift Shoppe: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=trombones If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris Waage -- Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal "A Website for Trombonists" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:36:12 -0800 From: Chip Tingle Subject: I've got to preview what I send; ITA Latin Trombonists article Greetings again, I have to pass on my apology for including the entire digest of email from the previous day in my last post - a rookie move for sure. I hope you were able to keep scrolling to find the rest of the day's news. On a separate note, I'm in the middle of Gerald Sloan's great article in the most recent ITA journal entitled "Los Huesos - A Closer Look at Latin Trombonists". Highly recommended, and encouraging to see in what can be a less-than-diverse journal. Cheers, Chip Tingle SF bay area freelancer 415.898.8381 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:07:10 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo Subject: Re: Vladislav Blazhevich Your local college/music school library may have back issues of the ITA Journal. Alternatively, they can be purchased from: ITA, Box 305338, Denton, TX 76203. Vol 10, 1 can be purchased for $5.00 + $1.00 postage. Vladislav Mikhailovich Blazhevich (properly pronounced "Blah-ZAY-vitch"), who lived from 1881-1942, was a distinguished professor of trombone at the Moscow Conservatory from 1920-1942. A fine trombonist as well, he played in the Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra for over 20 years before beginning his teaching career at the Conservatory. He wrote over a dozen trombone concertos and is probably best known in the West as the composer of the "Clef Studies" and his "Concert Duets" for trombones. The "Clef Studies" are excellent exercises which were first published in the USA in 1948 in an edition published by "Am-Rus" (Leeds Music), edited by Blazhevich's former pupil in Moscow, Jacob Raichman who was principal trombonist in the Boston Symphony from 1926-1955 (from 1926-1929 he was co-principal trombonist of the BSO along with Joannes Rochut). The Am-Rus editions were authorized editions of music of Soviet composers which paid royalties to them (unlike most other publications of Blazhevich's works in the West which, before the GATT, paid no royalties to composers from the USSR and many other countries because there was no reciprocal agreement of copyright recognition between the USA and those countries - and vice versa). Raichman played with Blazhevich in the Bolshoi Theatre (what Raichman always referred to as the "Moscow Opera House") where he played principal trombone along with Blazhevich before Raichman came to Boston by way of South American and Cuba. In 1985 and 1986, a new edition of the "Clef Studies," simply titled, "Studies," was issued in the USSR. These are remarkable books, containing all of what we know as the "Clef Studies" plus many more high quality etudes which have extreme range demands. Clearly bass trombonists can better enjoy the new edition, but unfortunately it is not available in the West and I've had no success in getting copies for distribution here (I have a copy which was given to me by Viktor Venglovsky, former principal trombonist in the Leningrad Philharmonic for many years who was a "pen pal" of sorts of mine for nearly two decades until his death a few years ago). A pity, since these new volumes contain much excellent music and some of the best trombone etudes I have ever seen and played. Blazhevich's "School for Trombone" was the standard method book for Russian trombone players for generations. Accura Music published an English translation of it a few years ago edited by Louis Van Haney, although it erroneously stated the book had originally been written in 1958. In fact, it was first published in Russia in 1925, in an edition in both Russian and German. I have a hard bound copy of that edition, autographed by Blazhevich to his pupil, Jacob Raichman, dated May 21, 1926, a year after publication. Raichman later edited the "School for Trombone" for publication in the USA in the "Am-Rus" series and Am-Rus also published the first English edition of Vlazhevich's "26 Sequences." The ITA Journal referenced above has a photograph of Blazhevich which accompanies his the short biographical sketch. There is no author given for the article, but I believe it was written by Viktor Venglovsky, although I heard that story long enough ago that I may have just remembered it wrong. The late William Cramer did some extensive research on Blazhevich's trombone Concerti, only a few of which were ever published in the USA. Somewhere along the line I heard someone had done a dissertation about Blazhevich's Concerti, but I don't recall who that might have been. -Doug Yeo At 8:54 PM -0800 2/16/03, James W. Yardley wrote: >Does anyone know where I might find information on Vladislav Blazhevich? >I've checked Grove, searched on Google and haven't found anything. I found >out that there was an article written about him in I.T.A. Journal, Vol. 10, >No. 1, January 1982, but 1982 was the year I was born so I don't have that >issue. It'd be nice to know something about him while playing his music. -- Douglas Yeo Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra Music Director, The New England Brass Band dyeo@rcn.com /// yeo@yeodoug.com http://www.yeodoug.com <>< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:13:35 -0500 From: "Peter W. Schroth" Subject: Re: Vladislav Blazhevich Doug (or anyone), are recordings of any of the Blazhevich concerti available somewhere? Peter Douglas Yeo wrote: > > Vladislav Mikhailovich Blazhevich (properly pronounced > "Blah-ZAY-vitch"), who lived from 1881-1942, was a distinguished > professor of trombone at the Moscow Conservatory from 1920-1942. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:04:07 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: Mark Twain on Trombone Quite an interesting story: http://www.hannibal.net/twain/works/jumping_frog_1867/gw_boyhood_pp.html Chris -- Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal "A Website for Trombonists" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:33:16 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: bone/trumpet double Jeff, I used to do it all through college, and for sometime afterwards - tuba and pic tpt too. I don't do it anymore, which probably says it all. I tend to practice whichever instrument was going to be used next for the next gig, and I was finding that the time it took me to get ready and strong on trumpet was getting longer and longer, particularly pic. 2-3 days in college, then five, then it was up to a couple weeks... On top of that, it was getting harder to go back to bass bone and tuba - I've never done a lot of tenor. That's a pretty big span of embouchers, and I finally had to say enough! I sold my trumpets (except for the novelty horns) and only play for family and friends (weddings and the like). It now takes quite a while to switch over! I have just enough chops to playtest a trumpet for a few minutes, that's it. I imagine if I was just doing tenor bone, I could play and maintain the trumpet. But that's not where the gigs are for me now. Anyway, that's my story... J.c. Sherman > Have any of you had any experience doubling on trumpet and trombone? I > know there are a couple of known players that do it well (Tom Malone, > James Morrison, Tower of Power usually has a trumpet player that doubles > valve bone). I was just look for any experience and insight into the > trials and tribulations of any list members that do it, or have tried to > do it. > > Jeff Albert > > www.jeffalbert.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:01:12 +0000 From: Jason Akai Subject: Re: In replies... Hello Can I ask the list to only retain pieces of messages in replying to messages which have some meaning behind them to the message of the sender - instead of whole chunks of replies and even yesterday a message containing the entire journal from the day before. I am a journal reader (I only get the messages once a day) and reading and re reading copied posts drives me crazy and... (mandatory Trombone Content) takes away from my practice time on my Trombone. Thanks Jason Akai Bass Trombonist American Wind Band http://www.americanwindband.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:10:53 +0000 From: Jason Akai Subject: Re: Responses to my question I wanted to thank everyone who responded so far - The highlights are: Lord of the Rings, by DeMeji Trombone Rag, by ? (Only thing I have found has been in the Hal Leonard series for Marching band...) Russian Christmas Music, by A. Reed Harrison's Dream, by Peter Graham (I might be interested in finding out how to hear a copy of this - I haven't heard it yet) And my opening suggestions: Elsa's Procession, by Wagner Night on Bald Mountain, by Mussorgsky Keep them coming! Jason Akai Bass Trombonist American Wind Band http://www.americanwindband.org _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:38:18 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Yamaha YSL-643 / 643 II rkeilitz@ATT.NET wrote: > Hi folks! > > Can anyone speak authoritatively to the differences between the Yamaha YSL-643R > and the 643R II? Both are supposed to be .551 bore instruments. There is one > web page at the Yamaha site where I can look short specs on older horns, but it > only lists the 643. > > And if anyone can speak directly as to a comparison between either of the > models listed above, and the new YSL-682G horns, that would be appreciated too! > I have a 1990 price list that lists the YSL-643R as .547" bore, so I guess that would be the difference. The older 643 and 643-II were .551" as you stated. The bells were pretty much the same from what I remember. Red brass bell...looks a lot like an 88H except no brace on the tuning slide. The 682G is a totally different horn. Looks more like a Bach than a Conn. Yamaha's semi-open wrap F attachment, gold brass bell. Eric Swanson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:54:51 -0500 From: clenthe Subject: Re: Vladislav Blazhevich Thank you for this, Doug! Very helpful, indeed. Carl Lenthe www.indiana.edu/~trombone/StudioLenthe.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Yeo" To: Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Vladislav Blazhevich > Your local college/music school library may have back issues of the > ITA Journal. Alternatively, they can be purchased from: ITA, Box > 305338, Denton, TX 76203. Vol 10, 1 can be purchased for $5.00 + > $1.00 postage. > > Vladislav Mikhailovich Blazhevich (properly pronounced > "Blah-ZAY-vitch"), who lived from 1881-1942, was a distinguished > professor of trombone at the Moscow Conservatory from 1920-1942. A > fine trombonist as well, he played in the Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra > for over 20 years before beginning his teaching career at the > Conservatory. He wrote over a dozen trombone concertos and is > probably best known in the West as the composer of the "Clef > Studies" and his "Concert Duets" for trombones. The "Clef Studies" > are excellent exercises which were first published in the USA in 1948 > in an edition published by "Am-Rus" (Leeds Music), edited by > Blazhevich's former pupil in Moscow, Jacob Raichman who was principal > trombonist in the Boston Symphony from 1926-1955 (from 1926-1929 he > was co-principal trombonist of the BSO along with Joannes Rochut). > The Am-Rus editions were authorized editions of music of Soviet > composers which paid royalties to them (unlike most other > publications of Blazhevich's works in the West which, before the > GATT, paid no royalties to composers from the USSR and many other > countries because there was no reciprocal agreement of copyright > recognition between the USA and those countries - and vice versa). > > Raichman played with Blazhevich in the Bolshoi Theatre (what Raichman > always referred to as the "Moscow Opera House") where he played > principal trombone along with Blazhevich before Raichman came to > Boston by way of South American and Cuba. > > In 1985 and 1986, a new edition of the "Clef Studies," simply titled, > "Studies," was issued in the USSR. These are remarkable books, > containing all of what we know as the "Clef Studies" plus many more > high quality etudes which have extreme range demands. Clearly bass > trombonists can better enjoy the new edition, but unfortunately it is > not available in the West and I've had no success in getting copies > for distribution here (I have a copy which was given to me by Viktor > Venglovsky, former principal trombonist in the Leningrad Philharmonic > for many years who was a "pen pal" of sorts of mine for nearly two > decades until his death a few years ago). A pity, since these new > volumes contain much excellent music and some of the best trombone > etudes I have ever seen and played. > > Blazhevich's "School for Trombone" was the standard method book for > Russian trombone players for generations. Accura Music published an > English translation of it a few years ago edited by Louis Van Haney, > although it erroneously stated the book had originally been written > in 1958. In fact, it was first published in Russia in 1925, in an > edition in both Russian and German. I have a hard bound copy of that > edition, autographed by Blazhevich to his pupil, Jacob Raichman, > dated May 21, 1926, a year after publication. Raichman later edited > the "School for Trombone" for publication in the USA in the "Am-Rus" > series and Am-Rus also published the first English edition of > Vlazhevich's "26 Sequences." > > The ITA Journal referenced above has a photograph of Blazhevich which > accompanies his the short biographical sketch. There is no author > given for the article, but I believe it was written by Viktor > Venglovsky, although I heard that story long enough ago that I may > have just remembered it wrong. The late William Cramer did some > extensive research on Blazhevich's trombone Concerti, only a few of > which were ever published in the USA. Somewhere along the line I > heard someone had done a dissertation about Blazhevich's Concerti, > but I don't recall who that might have been. > > -Doug Yeo > > > > > > At 8:54 PM -0800 2/16/03, James W. Yardley wrote: > >Does anyone know where I might find information on Vladislav Blazhevich? > >I've checked Grove, searched on Google and haven't found anything. I found > >out that there was an article written about him in I.T.A. Journal, Vol. 10, > >No. 1, January 1982, but 1982 was the year I was born so I don't have that > >issue. It'd be nice to know something about him while playing his music. > > -- > > > Douglas Yeo > Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra > Music Director, The New England Brass Band > > dyeo@rcn.com /// yeo@yeodoug.com > http://www.yeodoug.com > > <>< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:35:46 -0800 From: "James W. Yardley" Subject: (Thanks) Vladislav Blazhevich Thanks for all of the help with my question regarding biographical information on Blazhevich. Many offered to photocopy the article from ITA and send it to me and I greatly appreciate that. My library doesn't carry the ITA Journal (sigh), but we do have Interlibrary loan and I was able to request a copy. If it doesn't come through I will take someone up on their offer. I learned something in the process of doing this that I thought my be helpful to others on the list. When I was filling out my request I was asked for page numbers of the article. In order to find this out I had to use an index that can be found at http://wwwartsci.clarion.edu/music/jaw/ita/itaindexes.htm. It gives you everything you need to know about an article. It was a great resource for me to discover, and I hope others will benefit from this. Thanks again to Doug and everyone else for the help! Take care, James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:36:06 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Yamaha YSL-643 / 643 II///////681 b play test thanks for answering the yamaha question i just got in a 681b--001189 ysl lb fresh from australia its great ---bach looking --outer slides round brass bow [king style] needed a weight !!!!!!--a besson 2 screw with a piece of paper fit perfectly mouthpiece depth with std bach not deep deep so leadpipe might be i dunno smaller than 42 std is a guess -----great slide vibrant tone comparing now to an old 643 --its darker -but not deader --- as it has a heavier bell thats not dead soft dull a little more push for higher register -i can see this horn will be hard to make a splatty note on -------- ------------------- i think this model is called the bousefield model ------- it does not feel as massive as the older straight model 64_ [641 645 ??????] which is in 551 --more king 5b //mini bass bonesque the earlier horn has nickle outers ---very crisp tone ------------ shipping from oz no case -----49 dollars ---that is 49 rainbow bucks not usd !!!! ------ young ben stanton is playing a 1960 2b in original trim in a big big salsa band thanks ben -- Kurt Witt wrote: > DJ, > > Usually when we use the II (Mark-2) designation, it's for a subtle change in how the horn is made, not necessarily a different specification. I can't find in any literature anything about the 643R, it's always referred to as a 643RII, so I can't be for sure. Perhaps it was in how the bell was made or the slide, but likely NOT a specific change to the specifications (like bore size). > > Kurt > > >>> "D.J. Kennedy" 02/17/03 03:00AM >>> > ask kurt witt of yamaha > ----might be change in outerslide or something > ysl 653///651 may have undergone simian evolution > > rkeilitz@ATT.NET wrote: > > > Hi folks! > > > > Can anyone speak authoritatively to the differences between the Yamaha YSL-643R > > and the 643R II? Both are supposed to be .551 bore instruments. There is one > > web page at the Yamaha site where I can look short specs on older horns, but it > > only lists the 643. > > > > And if anyone can speak directly as to a comparison between either of the > > models listed above, and the new YSL-682G horns, that would be appreciated too! > > > > I've also posted this question in the OTJ Forum, Instruments section. > > > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:34:36 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Lacquer Questions I see you rolling your eyes. I hope some of these questions haven't been brought up. Is lacquer mainly used for cosmetics and ease of care or is it also considered something to affect the sound in a positive way? Do Shires and Edwards ever have people try bells without lacquer? Do less bass trombone players remove lacquer compared with smaller bore tenor players? Has anyone removed the lacquer only on the outside of the bell so that the drips of water on the inside can be cleaned easier? Did it still make as much of a difference in sound? Why do oboe players always raise their eyebrows when they play? I'm not an equipment junkie, I've only owned 3 trombones in my life, so I'm relying on some of your experience. I also realize removing lacquer makes a minuscule difference in sound if any. Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:49:49 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Lacquer Questions > I see you rolling your eyes. I hope some of these questions > haven't been brought up. Who us? Roll our eyes? > > Is lacquer mainly used for cosmetics and ease of care or is > it also considered something to affect the sound in a positive > way? I think it is cosmetic. > > Do Shires and Edwards ever have people try bells without > lacquer? I bought a raw brass Edwards bell, but I think it may have been lacquered and they removed the lacquer before they sent it to me. Side note, I have since had that bell silver plated, mostly for ease of care reasons. > > Do less bass trombone players remove lacquer compared with > smaller bore tenor players? I don't know, but my bass has lacquer and my 78H doesn't. It might be because I spend a lot more time on the 78H than the bass. > > Why do oboe players always raise their eyebrows when they > play? They are just relieved that the reed knife didn't hit a vein in their wrist. > >I also realize > removing lacquer makes a minuscule difference in sound if any. I disagree. I think it is a noticeable but small difference in sound, and definitely a noticeable difference in how the horn plays. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:24:59 -0600 From: Mike Switzer Subject: Re: bone/trumpet double I bought a slide trumpet about a year ago. Fiddled around on it a bit, and played it on one disco tune in the musical I was in last summer. Started playing it a bit more regularly when our trumpet player disappeared on us in our "jazz" group. I find that with a good warm up I can start on the trumpet, or start on trombone and move to trumpet, but going back to the trombone seems much more difficult. I'm sure part of that is the fact that I am exhausted by the end of practice anyway... Mike "Seek and learn to recognize who and what, in the midst of the inferno, are not inferno, then make them endure, give them space." -Italo Calvino ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:47:39 +0000 From: Walter Barrett Subject: Re: Lacquer Questions Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but Jeff Oien > I see you rolling your eyes. I hope some of these questions > haven't been brought up. > > Is lacquer mainly used for cosmetics and ease of care or is > it also considered something to affect the sound in a positive > way? > I think both, but whether the effect on the sound is positive or not is usually open to debate. > Has anyone removed the lacquer only on the outside of the bell > so that the drips of water on the inside can be cleaned easier? > Did it still make as much of a difference in sound? > Never did that, but I've found that cleaning the water drips has little to no effect on the sound. ;-) > Why do oboe players always raise their eyebrows when they > play? > It's the backpressure. Either that, or it's their way of signaling that it's just as painful for them to play as it is for us to listen to. > I'm not an equipment junkie, I've only owned 3 trombones in > my life, so I'm relying on some of your experience. I also realize > removing lacquer makes a minuscule difference in sound if any. > Jeff Oien Walter Barrett " these bits of metal are nothing until you add talent and dedication..." -D.J. Kennedy Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:56:12 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Lacquer Questions cosmetics but really thick epox often on redone horns -doesnt do much for vibrancy waxing with a hard wax like carnuba -will keep oxidation down before laq -bare metal l or plating --plating was the preferred finish but who knows maybe sym players were purists and liked bare bones Jeff Oien wrote: > I see you rolling your eyes. I hope some of these questions > haven't been brought up. > > Is lacquer mainly used for cosmetics and ease of care or is > it also considered something to affect the sound in a positive > way? > > Do Shires and Edwards ever have people try bells without > lacquer? > > Do less bass trombone players remove lacquer compared with > smaller bore tenor players? > > Has anyone removed the lacquer only on the outside of the bell > so that the drips of water on the inside can be cleaned easier? > Did it still make as much of a difference in sound? > > Why do oboe players always raise their eyebrows when they > play? > > I'm not an equipment junkie, I've only owned 3 trombones in > my life, so I'm relying on some of your experience. I also realize > removing lacquer makes a minuscule difference in sound if any. > Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:26:01 -0500 From: Steve Carr Subject: Re: Lacquer Questions > Do less bass trombone players remove lacquer compared with > smaller bore tenor players? > I've had the lacquer removed for the bells of two bass trombones. I liked both of them better without. I also think the difference was significant. > Has anyone removed the lacquer only on the outside of the bell > so that the drips of water on the inside can be cleaned easier? > Did it still make as much of a difference in sound? interesting idea . . . I doubt anyone has done it. When you go un-lacquered it's for sound/feel reasons. If you care more for appearence and ease of cleaning you stay with lacquer. Everyone I know with un-lacquered bells just let's them stay dull. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 02:33:05 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Lacquer Questions > > Is lacquer mainly used for cosmetics and ease of care or is > > it also considered something to affect the sound in a positive > > way? >I think both, but whether the effect on the sound is positive or not is >usually open to debate. Lacquer damps the vibrating metal. I generally prefer the sound of bells which have been stripped. ThatÕs generally, but not always. Most bells are only lacquered for the last eight inches of the bell flair. > > Why do oboe players always raise their eyebrows when they > > play? > > >It's the backpressure. Either that, or it's their way of signaling >that >it's just as painful for them to play as it is for us to listen to. I play oboe. We raise our eyebrows when we play because weÕre really curious about the last note, if you can call it that, that just came out of our horns. The back-pressure answer is a good one too. To be a bit more vivid, though, IÕd say that there are times when youÕre blowing so hard that youÕve got to be a cautious about what happens when you squeeze that hard. In other words, it looks as if youÕre raising your eyebrows but youÕre really so tight assed that youÕre lowering the rest of your body. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:48:26 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Lacquer Questions > > Most bells are only lacquered for the last eight inches of the bell flair. > > You mean on the inside right? Jeff Albert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:48:40 -0800 From: Randy Fendrick Subject: Understatement of the week! As we finished Mozart's Magic Flute Saturday nite, the bass trombonist commented, "Something that looks so simple on paper is so difficult to play!" But it was fun! Randy Fendrick Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra Southside Chicago Seven ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:34:48 -0600 From: Fred Hudson Subject: Re: Lacquer Questions > > > Why do oboe players always raise their eyebrows when they > > > play? > In other words, it looks as if you're raising your eyebrows but you're really so > tight assed that you're lowering the rest of your body. > > DanP > An opinion long held by the rest of the orchestra! *grin* Fred H ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:32:40 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Fwd: Valve Trombones Anyone got the answer to this question from a friend of mine??? WD ================================================== >Hey, man - > >Do you happen to know what make valve bone Bob Brookmeyer uses? > >TB > -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Feb 2003 to 17 Feb 2003 (#2003-48) ****************************************************************