Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 2 Feb 2003 to 3 Feb 2003 (#2003-34) Date: Tuesday, February 4, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 26 messages totalling 1181 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Saving Live Broadway (6) 2. Chinese instruments (4) 3. OTJ Classifieds Update - 02/03/2003 4. Testosterone Replacement Therapy (2) 5. scores 6. Chemical help 7. Test (2) 8. Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! (2) 9. TROMBONE-L Digest - 1 Feb 2003 to 2 Feb 2003 (#2003-33) 10. Miles Tonight (2) 11. ReBug 12. audience/performer vibe was Saving Live Broadway 13. Stumpy Brown 14. Live music...non-traditional venues ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:24:11 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Saving Live Broadway Unfortunately, thereŐs no stopping technology. Look at how the record companies tried to stop MP3 exchanges. It didnŐt work. Look at how movie companies tried to stop VCRs. It didnŐt work. Now check out this little poor band of musicians who are trying to keep live music on Broadway. ItŐs not going to work. If big bucks canŐt stop technology than poor underdogs donŐt have a chance. In order to keep live music happening, musicians will have to continually demonstrate to the paying public that live music is worth the money. DanP _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:30:46 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: Chinese instruments As the proud owner of a Mainland Chinese trombone, It looks great hanging on a nail in my garage. If it was structurally sound, I'd hang it by the hand slide crook and grow blowers out of the bell. Back when I did try to play it, I witnessed having it literally fall apart in my hands. Plating flaked off and got into the slide. The hand slide cross-member broke apart, taking a chunk out of the cork barrel, so that it couldn't be fixed. And the thing was nickel plated, which is to say that it couldn't be soldered. Shall I go on? DanP _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 01:55:50 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Re: Chinese instruments I'm sure that mainland China has some fine trombonists. What brand trombones do some of their professional trombonists use? Does anyone know? -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:31 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Chinese instruments As the proud owner of a Mainland Chinese trombone, It looks great hanging on a nail in my garage. If it was structurally sound, I'd hang it by the hand slide crook and grow blowers out of the bell. Back when I did try to play it, I witnessed having it literally fall apart in my hands. Plating flaked off and got into the slide. The hand slide cross-member broke apart, taking a chunk out of the cork barrel, so that it couldn't be fixed. And the thing was nickel plated, which is to say that it couldn't be soldered. Shall I go on? DanP _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:12:29 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Saving Live Broadway >Unfortunately, thereŐs no stopping technology. Look at how the record >companies tried to stop MP3 exchanges. It didnŐt work. Look at how movie >companies tried to stop VCRs. It didnŐt work. Now check out this little >poor band of musicians who are trying to keep live music on Broadway. ItŐs >not going to work. If big bucks canŐt stop technology than poor underdogs >donŐt have a chance. > >In order to keep live music happening, musicians will have to continually >demonstrate to the paying public that live music is worth the money. > >DanP ============= And the only ways to do that...the ONLY ways...is through improvisation, the production of uncapturable sounds, an emphasis on the superiority of the group audience experience and a steady attempt at educating the public in these matters., Most people...even many musicians...seem to think that recorded music sounds the same as live music. Just as good or better. 'Tain't so. It just is not true. 5 minutes in front of a great sound...J.J.'s sound, Jimmy Knepper's sound, Miles Davis's sound or Sonny Rollins, the sound of Basie's band or the Vanguard Band,...should convince anyone even remotely sensitive to such things that this is true. TECHNOLOGY CANNOT CAPTURE THE ESSENCE OF A GREAT SOUND. AND EVEN IF THEY COME CLOSE, GREAT MUSIC THAT CHANGES FROM MINUTE TO MINUTE AND NIGHT TO NIGHT IN RESPONSE TO THE CHANGES OF THE WORLD IS BOTH UNCAPTURABLE AND IRREPLACEABLE. , What you hear even on the best sound systems is a cartoon, a sketch, one p[ast ,moment in time partially delineated on a disc.. The real thing isboth unrecordable and unrepeatable. It is the present.. ________________ Great story about Pablo Picasso... He was doing a portrait of a woman...in his cubist period, nose here, ears there, mouth somewhere else. After a few days, the woman's husband came by to check out the portrait. Picasso showed it to him him, and the man said "Why that doesn't look anything LIKE my wife!!!" Picasso asked what the man thought his wife looked like, and the distraught husband whipped out a photograph of her from his wallet. All Picasso had to say was "Strange...I thought she was much larger..." ____________________________ Further, the act of SHARING music among an audience heightens the experience. No one is talking about these things...or rather, they are only mentioned in areas like this one, that are not completely dominated by big media. Time magazine is owned by Timne/Warner. (Unless I missed yet another merger...is AOL in there too, now?) ABC by Disney, NBC + CBS the same...Newsweek, The NY Times, The Washington Post...all the media of record are intertwined in a business sense w/media giants to whom this sort of information is the financial kiss of death. Do you think the public is going to hear ideas like this from the mass media? Of course not. It will hurt CD sales even more. So the system grinds on... You must step OUTSIDE this system to do real work in this sense, and this is both risky and financially relatively unrewarding. But it is worth the effort, as you will see if only you MAKE that effort. Step away from the system...get a gig in a small club; produce CDs only with an eye to getting people to come hear you live; refuse to recprd at all and make it a virtue rather than a vice; refuse to record unless accorded the same treatment as the NY Philharmonic...the possibilities are endless. I just finished two sets w/Chico O'Farrill Band at Birdland in NYC. The band was smoking, the audience was rocking; the club was making money...what more is there? It would be better if the band made more money, but that comes in time...the music must come first in such a system. In order to really even begin to capture a band like this it would cost 10 times more than the CD's short term projected earnings, so of course the bottom liners refuse to consider it; do short change projects instead...quick in, quick out and it's good enough for jazz...and then say "Seem it doesn't sell" and cut the purse strings entirely. OK...that's a given. Same w/ B'way. Our responsibility is to find a way AROUND this system. I say again...there is no shortage of music. No shortage of talent or desire. It's up to us to find a way to do this. May we have good luck in this endeavour. Goodnight... S. . > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:14:41 -0600 From: Phil Brink Subject: Re: Chinese instruments When I worked in Hong Kong I often went up to Guangzhou to coach the bass section of the Symphony there. The trombonists played Bach 42K's and another Bach Model [I think a 50B with a single trigger] on bass trombone. These were imported by the management of the orchestra and owned by them - the players could not have afforded such costly instruments... In other cities I cannot say. BTW, about "fine trombonists," you are certainly right! There are quite a few. Phil Brink -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard Z. Johnson Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:56 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Chinese instruments I'm sure that mainland China has some fine trombonists. What brand trombones do some of their professional trombonists use? Does anyone know? -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:31 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Chinese instruments As the proud owner of a Mainland Chinese trombone, It looks great hanging on a nail in my garage. If it was structurally sound, I'd hang it by the hand slide crook and grow blowers out of the bell. Back when I did try to play it, I witnessed having it literally fall apart in my hands. Plating flaked off and got into the slide. The hand slide cross-member broke apart, taking a chunk out of the cork barrel, so that it couldn't be fixed. And the thing was nickel plated, which is to say that it couldn't be soldered. Shall I go on? DanP _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:22:25 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: OTJ Classifieds Update - 02/03/2003 The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 2:21 AM CST on February 3, 2003. - - - - - Thank you for using the OTJ Classifieds! - - - - - OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp OTJ Gift Shoppe: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=trombones If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris Waage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:02:42 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Chinese instruments From: "Bill Redgate" > As one who tried those early Yamahas, I can tell you they WERE junk. Hmmm. My first bass 'bone was a Yam. Can't remember the model. Single string-operated valve. Cost UKP140 (New) in 1970. I don't remember having any problems with it, but then it was my first attempt at bass 'boning. Got me into the Maynard Ferguson band. Eventually changed to a Holton TR180 because I needed the 2nd valve. Now TR181. Still using the same mp that came with the Yam. Never found anything better. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:29:43 EST From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Testosterone Replacement Therapy Hello Jeff I've only just been picking up on some things posted last week, so this might all be too late or have been said already. However, the ins and outs of any hormone replacement therapy aside, the trombone and most any large wind instrument does, IMHO, require a certain level of athleticism in the player. Testosterone and human growth hormone levels can both be lifted through good diet and exercise so long as you're prepared to do the work. General rules would be to have a look at your overall fitness before pushing on into the areas that will raise these natural hormones to levels closer to what you would find in a younger subject and diet is crucial. If you haven't exercised in a while or in a long while, then a year getting fit would not be unrealistic. Of course, anyone over 35 should not consider anything of this kind without a full medical check-up first ‰ŰÓ especially if exercise hasn't been a part of your life routine for some time, you're significantly overweight, have a family history of blood pressure/heart problems, etc., etc.. Essential fatty acids are needed to manufacture testosterone ‰ŰÓ and so is (good) cholesterol. Amino acids play an important role and overall protein levels need to be at least at the top end of World Health Organisation and preferably a little higher recommendations (WHO levels assume sedentary male minimum to prevent illness). If you're already exercising and reasonably fit, regular heavy resistance training and interval training have been shown to significantly raise these hormone levels with wider positive effect than improving trombone playing, I might add. But, like practising the trombone, if you do it, it works. Check out the Men's Health web site for more ‰ŰÓ much more ‰ŰÓ usable and helpful advice. Best regards, Steve C England ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 05:52:35 -0800 From: David Guion Subject: Re: scores Sounds like a library assignment to me. Have you looked there? ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "James W. Yardley" Reply-To: yardlejw@UWEC.EDU Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:37:38 -0800 >Hello list. I'm searching for scores for a music history assignment and I'm >having a really difficult time finding what I'm looking for. I'm wondering >if there are standard catalogs/publishers/websites you go to when looking >for scores. I've checked Amazon, Hickeys, and other retailers and couldn't >find anything. Thanks for your help. > >Mandatory trombone content; The sooner I get this assignment done the sooner >I can go practice my trombone. > >Take care, >James > -- *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* David Guion Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? david@trombone.org *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:28:12 -0500 From: David Buckley Subject: Re: Chemical help Then you'd close down half the orchestras in the world. Dave. "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" wrote: > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, David Buckley wrote: > > > If this becomes popular, the band contesting movement will have to demand urine > > tests at contests. > > How about urine tests for betablockers? > > Carole > cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:30:30 EST From: Beldon Wade Subject: Test Test ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:44:11 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Re: Testosterone Replacement Therapy > Testosterone and human growth hormone levels can both be lifted through good > diet and exercise so long as you're prepared to do the work. -snip- > Best regards, > Steve C > England I agree. As someone who has been weight training for many years and now also running I am in better shape at 38 than I've ever been in. Seeing powerlifters maintain and even improve their strength into their 40s and even 50s proves your point. While they're doing great people who are sedentary often start to really decline before they even hit 40. In addition to the obvious health benefits exercise really does help with playing trombone too. Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:55:15 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Re: Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! A number of years ago, I had leant a student one of my horns (88H). That same day it was stolen from her car. (Can you imagine how lousy she felt?) After the police were notified, we immediately made up some flyers with a description of the goods. Fortunately, the horn was in an unusually shaped homemade case, easily recognizable. We went to every pawn shop in the city. I just wanted to get the horn back, so I told the shop keepers, "Buy the horn as cheaply as possible and I'll buy it back from you." A couple of days later two kids walked into one of the shops. The shop keeper bought the horn for $25 and videotaped the whole transaction. I got the horn and the cops got the thieves. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 520-792-9155 x118 520-792-9314 fax 520-991-7056 cel -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Dinwiddie Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 5:38 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! Robert, You are an incredibly lucky person. I never knew anyone who got their instrument back once it had been stolen. The only exception to that is when I actually caught a guy in the act of stealing my trombone, back when I attended DePaul University. I hauled him into the Dean's office and I can remember the Dean giving him a stern lecture and then bestowing upon him the Ultimate Sanction - having him ejected from the building! I'll wager that he never stole another trombone after that scare! Anyway, congratulations. Bill Dinwiddie bill752d@attbi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Slaven" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 5:31 PM Subject: [TBN-L] I found my bone! > So I had this meeting downtown this morning. When it was over, seeing as how > I was right by pawn shop central, I figured I'd take another look. Yeah, the > break-in was almost 3 months ago, but you never know, eh? > > Sure enough, in the window of pawn shop #4 (only 75,000 people here, but there > are 6 or more of 'em within 3 blocks of each other), hanging from a > jerry-rigged coathanger, with a sticker price of (Canadian) $175, was a > battered-but-beautiful King 4B. > > I recognised every single ding and lacquer-removed-by-sweat mark on it. > Having my name engraved on the latches of the case clinched it. > > Now, I paid the pawn shop $100 (they got it for $50), but I figure my > insurance company will be much happier paying me that back vs. the $2750 or > whatever if I hadn't found it. Mouthpiece has been jammed in, but a quick > call to a local repair guy should fix that. > > So, to everyone who gave me all the great advice about buying; thank you very > much!! And if I come into cash some other way, we'll see what happens. (I'd > still like a nice smallbore some day....) Time to start playing this thing! > > Robert > -- > Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca > ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too > All the other things -- victories, achievements, honors, causes -- they > bring only momentary flashes of pleasure. But binding yourself to > another person and to the children you make together, that's life." > - Orson Scott Card, 'Shadow of the Hegemon' > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 2003/01/21 > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:09:33 -0800 From: Gary Sloane Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L Digest - 1 Feb 2003 to 2 Feb 2003 (#2003-33) Hi, Steve, I might be interested in that silver 3B, but I'm writing to let you know you've got some bad links on your web page. When I click on the URL below, the page comes up fine, and I can view all the photos of the three horns (I've got 3 30H's myself); but clicking on the navigation links at the bottom of the page results in errors like the following (for the Main link): http://members.aol.com/New%20Store%20Page/Main.htm On a happier note, I was down your way in December and stopped in at Zig Kanstul's (he's gold plating one of my 32H's), where I saw one of your bells and his new valve. I'd be *really* interested on a comparison test between Zig's valve, Gary Greenhoe's, and Steve Shires's, and I'm guessing you're one of the few people who could provide it. Thanks, Gary At 12:00 AM -0600 2/3/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:51:41 EST >From: SFTrombone@AOL.COM >Subject: used horns for sale > >I have several used horns for sale: > >Conn 30H circa 1937, in great shape, all original lacquer intact, some >lacquer wear on neckpipe and part of one outer slide tube, perfect plating on >inner slide, original case, original warranty card, .497/.509 bore, 7" bell, >no mouthpiece, $600 plus shipping. > >Conn 10H circa 1952 .500" brass slide with brass outer sleeves, bright copper >8" bell, some scarring from dent removal on bell and neck pipe, some lacquer >loss, could use a slide tune up, though it is playable as is, slide action >would rate a B+, two small points of plating wear on inner stocking, in old >Conn case, but probably not the original case for this horn, this is >essentially a 6H with the "caprion" bell $475 as is or $525 and I'll have the >slide action perfected locally. > >King 3B Silversonic circa 1953 .508" nickel slide, sterling silver bell, some >lacquer loss on bell (could be polished), neckpipe and tuning slide, perfect >slide action, removable lead pipe, hard case $1000 > >Pictures of all three horns are here: > >http://members.aol.com/fergusonmusic4/usedhorns.htm > >Steve Ferguson >Los Angeles >818 951 9598 -- Gary Sloane gary.sloane@sun.com (650) 786-2229 sloane@batnet.com (650) 323-1638 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:08:32 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! Result! Book 'em Dano! Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Gamble" To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! > A number of years ago, I had leant a student one of my horns (88H). > That same day it was stolen from her car. (Can you imagine how lousy > she felt?) After the police were notified, we immediately made up some > flyers with a description of the goods. Fortunately, the horn was in an > unusually shaped homemade case, easily recognizable. We went to every > pawn shop in the city. I just wanted to get the horn back, so I told > the shop keepers, "Buy the horn as cheaply as possible and I'll buy it > back from you." A couple of days later two kids walked into one of the > shops. The shop keeper bought the horn for $25 and videotaped the whole > transaction. I got the horn and the cops got the thieves. > > Steve Gamble, Librarian > Tucson Symphony Orchestra > 2175 N. 6th Ave. > Tucson, AZ 85705 > sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org > 520-792-9155 x118 > 520-792-9314 fax > 520-991-7056 cel > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. > [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Dinwiddie > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 5:38 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! > > Robert, > > You are an incredibly lucky person. I never knew anyone who got their > instrument back once it had been stolen. The only exception to that is > when > I actually caught a guy in the act of stealing my trombone, back when I > attended DePaul University. I hauled him into the Dean's office and I > can > remember the Dean giving him a stern lecture and then bestowing upon him > the > Ultimate Sanction - having him ejected from the building! I'll wager > that he > never stole another trombone after that scare! Anyway, congratulations. > > Bill Dinwiddie > bill752d@attbi.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Slaven" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 5:31 PM > Subject: [TBN-L] I found my bone! > > > > So I had this meeting downtown this morning. When it was over, seeing > as > how > > I was right by pawn shop central, I figured I'd take another look. > Yeah, > the > > break-in was almost 3 months ago, but you never know, eh? > > > > Sure enough, in the window of pawn shop #4 (only 75,000 people here, > but > there > > are 6 or more of 'em within 3 blocks of each other), hanging from a > > jerry-rigged coathanger, with a sticker price of (Canadian) $175, was > a > > battered-but-beautiful King 4B. > > > > I recognised every single ding and lacquer-removed-by-sweat mark on > it. > > Having my name engraved on the latches of the case clinched it. > > > > Now, I paid the pawn shop $100 (they got it for $50), but I figure my > > insurance company will be much happier paying me that back vs. the > $2750 > or > > whatever if I hadn't found it. Mouthpiece has been jammed in, but a > quick > > call to a local repair guy should fix that. > > > > So, to everyone who gave me all the great advice about buying; thank > you > very > > much!! And if I come into cash some other way, we'll see what > happens. > (I'd > > still like a nice smallbore some day....) Time to start playing this > thing! > > > > Robert > > -- > > Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca > > ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too > > All the other things -- victories, achievements, honors, causes -- > they > > bring only momentary flashes of pleasure. But binding yourself to > > another person and to the children you make together, that's life." > > - Orson Scott Card, 'Shadow of the > Hegemon' > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 2003/01/21 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:56:17 -0500 From: DSlide13@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Test ummmmmmmmmm.....yer in trouble. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:14:17 -0800 From: Elisabeth Frederick Subject: Re: Miles Tonight I watched this/taped it, and it was great!! If anyone missed it, shame on you! :^) And thanks Bill for letting me know about it. Liz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dinwiddie" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Miles Tonight > Anyone who has cable TV and receives the "Bravo" network is in for a treat > tonight. Starting at 8:00 PM (Central Time)is a 2-hour special titled "The > Miles Davis Story", friends and colleagues discuss the jazz trumpeter. I > haven't seen this program, but it promises to be well worth watching. I > cannot be sure if this program is being shown on this date and time in all > areas of the U.S. Consult your TV Guide. > > Enjoy, > > Bill Dinwiddie > bill752d@attbi.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:50:41 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Miles Tonight From: "Elisabeth Frederick" > I watched this/taped it, and it was great!! If anyone missed it, shame on > you! :^) Wasn't on British TV. Jus' send me the tape. Can't cope with the shame. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:22:21 EST From: Beldon Wade Subject: ReBug List serv notified that I had a bug. returned mail. sent test, no bug, must have been attached to something I replied to as the test came throu ok. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:59:55 -0500 From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: Saving Live Broadway From: "sabutin" Most people...even many musicians...seem to think that recorded music sounds the same as live music. "Just as good" is not the point Sam. Modern home stereos sounds excellent. It used to be you really had to shell out a lot of money to get a good sound system. Now, you can have a wonderful system dirt cheap. The recording media is great also. I can have sounds in my living room that people would have died for 40 years ago. There are a lot of reasons for going to a live performance and I hope people don't stop. However, sound quality? Nope - a non issue for 99% of the people. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:10:07 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: audience/performer vibe was Saving Live Broadway > > From: "sabutin" Most people...even many musicians...seem to think > that > recorded music sounds the same as live music. > (from Steve) > "Just as good" is not the point Sam. Modern home stereos sounds > excellent. > It used to be you really had to shell out a lot of money to get a good > sound > system. Now, you can have a wonderful system dirt cheap. The recording > media is great also. I can have sounds in my living room that people > would > have died for 40 years ago. > > There are a lot of reasons for going to a live performance and I hope > people > don't stop. However, sound quality? Nope - a non issue for 99% of the > people. ======================================================== I don't think sound quality was Sam's point. There is a symbiosis amongst audience and performer that cannot exist on a recording. I have had some wonderful life changing moments listening to recordings, but they pale in comparison to the times when it all came together live, either as a performer or audience member. There was an interesting quote from saxophonist Joshua Redman, which I will paraphrase, and possibly slaughter his intended meaning but this is what it meant to me. Someone asked what a particular song meant, or what it was about, and he said that he just wrote the song, the audience provides the meaning. I think we have all seen that different audiences affect the same piece of music in different ways, and its not just the interaction between the audience and the performers, but also the shared experience and interaction within the audience, it's a communal thing. There is no community created by me and my stereo. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:34:56 -0500 From: DSlide13@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Saving Live Broadway In a message dated 2/3/2003 4:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, becks@PILOT.MSU.EDU writes: > There are a lot of reasons for going to a live performance and I hope people > don't stop. However, sound quality? Nope - a non issue > for 99% of the > people. I would agree with the fact that it's a non issue for 99% of people, but only because they don't know any better. Most people never heard JJ's sound from right in front of his bell. I'm guessing you never did either Steve. I think that the incredible technology gives us the illusion that we're hearing great sound, but it only serves to further desensitize us to the beauty of acoustic sound. And on that note, most of the time when you see live performances you're hearing the musicians through what is supposed to be sound reinforcement...and you're so far from the musicians that you're not hearing any actual acoustic sound...that even in live performance you're still being denied tone. So how is the average "joe" supposed to know the difference between live and memorex when we've only ever heard memorex? And...I might add that I sincerely hope that I don't sound the way I've been recorded. Most of the time I sound on recording the way the engineer thinks I should sound, but not the way I really sound. Thank God for engineers who actually listen to my acoustic sound before recording. Most of them don't. David Gibson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:41:20 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Saving Live Broadway >In a message dated 2/3/2003 4:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, >becks@PILOT.MSU.EDU writes: > >> There are a lot of reasons for going to a live performance and I hope people >> don't stop. However, sound quality? Nope - a non issue >> for 99% of the >> people. > >I would agree with the fact that it's a non issue for 99% of people, >but only because they don't know any better. Most people never >heard JJ's sound from right in front of his bell. I'm guessing you >never did either Steve. I think that the incredible technology >gives us the illusion that we're hearing great sound, but it only >serves to further desensitize us to the beauty of acoustic sound. >And on that note, most of the time when you see live performances >you're hearing the musicians through what is supposed to be sound >reinforcement...and you're so far from the musicians that you're not >hearing any actual acoustic sound...that even in live performance >you're still being denied tone. So how is the average "joe" >supposed to know the difference between live and memorex when we've >only ever heard memorex? > >And...I might add that I sincerely hope that I don't sound the way >I've been recorded. Most of the time I sound on recording the way >the engineer thinks I should sound, but not the way I really sound. >Thank God for engineers who actually listen to my acoustic sound >before recording. Most of them don't. > >David Gibson ===== , Amen. S. -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:40:23 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Saving Live Broadway >From: "sabutin" Most people...even many musicians...seem to think that >recorded music sounds the same as live music. > >"Just as good" is not the point Sam. Modern home stereos sounds excellent. >It used to be you really had to shell out a lot of money to get a good sound >system. Now, you can have a wonderful system dirt cheap. The recording >media is great also. I can have sounds in my living room that people would >have died for 40 years ago. > >There are a lot of reasons for going to a live performance and I hope people >don't stop. However, sound quality? Nope - a non issue for 99% of the >people. ================ I can hear the difference. Go to the Vanguard and get a good table, or Carnegie Hall in an acoustically good seat. I don't care if you have a $5000 system...you are not going to hear at home what you hear there. Nor will you FEEL it the same way. It's not all about wavelengths. As far as recording equipment...I have spent much of my life in high end NYC studios, and I swear to you, I have never heard my sound back twice the same way. Not really. Further,the very act of recording alters the performance in a deleterious way, in my opinion. ESPECIALLY today, when players are isoklated fromone another for the sake of "sound". They don't really get the sound number one, and they ruin the natural interaction of the musicians number two. Number three...the musicians' minds and approaches to the music are altered by the fact that they are recording. I do not care who it is...a live, unrecorded performance in a good sounding hall is goping to be freer and better thasn one that has the added onus of "It better be right...this is expensive..." I stand by my original statement. S., -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:56:24 -0800 From: alex iles Subject: Stumpy Brown For all you big band/bass bone fans... Nice article with many photos about bass trombonist, Stumpy Brown... www.jazzconnectionmag.com/Stumpy%20Brown%20Article.htm Enjoy, Alex Iles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:30:33 -0500 From: DSlide13@AOL.COM Subject: Live music...non-traditional venues As I mentioned in an earlier post, for those of you who are concerned that the demise of the recording industry and subsequently the MPTF, you should know that there are organizations bringing live performance to non-traditional venues. Check out this web site for more information.... www.piatigorskyfoundation.org Spread the word. Live music generates future audiences, and satiates the appetite of those who know. David Gibson ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 2 Feb 2003 to 3 Feb 2003 (#2003-34) **************************************************************