Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 31 Jan 2003 to 1 Feb 2003 (#2003-32) Date: Sunday, February 2, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 34 messages totalling 2041 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. What Site? (7) 2. a turning point (2) 3. Low Brass vacancies: Prairie View A&M University & Liberty University 4. Live Music Petition (2) 5. OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office (7) 6. Edwards .547 horn for sale, Elkhart Conn bass sought 7. What Site? and OTJ (2) 8. I found my bone! (2) 9. Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! 10. Testosterone Replacement Therapy (5) 11. Fw: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy (2) 12. FS: New Conn 88H CL SGX 13. Testosterone Repl. (Buddy Morrow/Will Bradley) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 00:11:47 -0600 From: Bill Dinwiddie Subject: What Site? What site? I guess I didn't receive it. Please resend. Bill Dinwiddie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:08:49 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: What Site? From: "Bill Dinwiddie" > What site? I guess I didn't receive it. Please resend. Too late. They've just synthesized the whole of Broadway. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 04:25:44 EST From: MikeSuter@AOL.COM Subject: a turning point This is about Frank Gehry, the architect. But it's sure had an impact on my wife and I as we've been struggling with my decision whether to return to music after this seven-year forced layoff. In the latest issue of the AARP magazine (I'm not that old. It's just that my driver's license - like that famous sheep of yore - lies) Gehry says: "The turning point in my creative life was when I realized that what I was doing and thinking was the only thing I could do and think. Anything else would have been contrived." Stick to your guns, folks. Stick to your guns. Mike Suter Slidewerke The National Slide Quartet PrimeSlide Design ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:09:49 -0500 From: Peter Fielding Subject: Low Brass vacancies: Prairie View A&M University & Liberty University Hello, Here are a few university vacancies that I stumbled across. All the best, Peter Fielding ---------------------- Prairie View A&M University - College of Arts & Sciences Music & Drama-Low Brass Instructor - Assistant Professor of Music Application Due: Open Until Filled Posted: 01/27/2003 Location: TX Type: Full Time The Department of Music and Drama at Prairie View A&M University invites applications for a Low Brass Instructor, with appointment beginning September 1, 2003. Doctorate or near doctorate in a low brass instructional area. Salary commensurate with qualification and experience. Applicants should show evidence of performance capability on a low brass instrument, demonstrated success as a teacher in this instrumental area and possess expertise in music technology applications. In addition to the teaching of low brass applied students, additional duties will include classes in Music Appreciation, Instrumental Methods and Conducting the Brass Ensemble. Prairie View A&M University is a part of the Texas A&M University System. The enrollment averages 6,000 plus with a cross-cultural environment. Located about 45 miles from downtown Houston. The University has strong academic programs in Engineering, Business, Nursing, Arts and Sciences, Navy and Army ROTC, Education, and Agriculture. Submit a letter of application with statement concerning applicant's philosophy on teaching, curriculum vita, three letters of reference, and certified transcript of the highest degree to: Office of Human Resources Prairie View A&M University P. O. Box 5 Prairie View, Texas 77446 For information contact: Dr. Danny R. Kelley, Head Department of Music and Drama danny_kelley@pvamu.edu Telephone: (936) 857-3919 Apply To Mail: Gerard Rambally Prairie View A&M University College of Arts & Sciences P.O.Box 277 Prairie View, TX 77446-0277 Phone: 936 857 4710 Fax: 936 857 2118 ----------- LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Liberty University is a Christian liberal arts university with over 5,700 resident students as well as several thousand students in its distance learning program. The University is seeking faculty who can demonstrate a faith commitment to its evangelical Christian purpose and who are dedicated to excellence in teaching for the following anticipated openings in the 2003-2004 academic year. Institution: Liberty University Location: Virginia Date posted: 1/31/2003 COLLEGE OF ARTS AND SCIENCES Ð Dr. Ronald E. Hawkins, Dean. Department of Fine Arts Ð Music: Assistant Professor of Low Brass, specialist in Music Education. Doctorate preferred. Teach Low Brass Methods, Music Education Methods courses, and coordinate Music Education component of the B.M. Degree. The successful candidate will be a strong performer on a low brass instrument with significant teaching experience at the college level; public school teaching experience is preferred. Send letter of interest and resume to named Dean, Liberty University, 1971 University Boulevard, Lynchburg, VA 24502. Liberty University welcomes applications from women and members of ethnic minorities. Deadline for applications is April 1, 2003. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:37:18 +0000 From: Walter Barrett Subject: Re: Live Music Petition Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but Eric & Candice Swanson > For the sake of all live music everywhere, take just a minute to go to > this site and sign this petition. If they eliminate the live orchestras > on Broadway, they will be gone when shows come to your city too. > > Thanks, > > Eric Swanson > Dallas/Fort Worth I got this email from the AFM, too, and am posting it here for all... See below Walter Barrett "If the lips are gone, the teeth are cold." -Chinese proverb. "Human mouths have two lips: whether they speak good or evil is up to you." -Chinese proverb. Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba > > As you may be aware, Local 802 President Bill Moriarity > and the musicians of New York City are about to begin > their crucial Broadway negotiations with the League > of American Theatres and Producers. > > Protecting live music on Broadway remains a vital > mission in these upcoming negotiations. As you know, > the fight to preserve live music does not end on Broadway, > but continues throughout the US and Canada as well. > > > Preserving the rich sound of a live orchestra or band > is in the best interests of all AFM members. Local > 802 has created an online petition which can be found > at: > > http://www.savelivebroadway.com . > > We urge you to visit this site and lend your voice > of support. > > Please feel free to forward this link to friends, > colleagues, fellow musicians, ticket buyers, and all > others who may be interested in preserving live music > in live theater productions. > > Thank you for your support! > > In Solidarity, > > Thomas F. Lee, President > Michael Manley, Touring Division > > American Federation of Musicians ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:30:05 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: What Site? >From: "Bill Dinwiddie" > > >> What site? I guess I didn't receive it. Please resend. > > >Too late. They've just synthesized the whole of Broadway. > >A. ====================== I know you are making a joke here, Adrian, but the truth of the matter is that most of B'way is already a synthetic product. I mean this. You cannot successfully "synthesize" something, be it advertising music, B'way, pop music, or anything else, unless it is already sadly lacking in human content. The very performance and production system of big time modern B'way...the endless exact repetition, the formulaic writing in the Disney-fied Beauty + The Beast/Phantom of the Opera/Miss Saigon style (not an original melody in a carload, I swear the melodic and lyric content of most of these shows could have been produced by a computer program w/the proper informational input), the aim for a loooooong run w/dozens of people slotted in and out of roles interchangeably, the amplification in lieu of real projecting voices and instrumental sounds...it's already 3/4 of the way there. There is no movement afoot to replace opera orchestras w/synthsesizers, nor symphony orchestras either. No serious attempt to synthesize a big jazz band, replace the jazz soloist w/a program, make a latin rhythm section drum machine. Why not? Because they are still largely dependent upon human characteristics like emotion, adjustability and improvisation. (We will disregard "jazz lite" here, which is really background music and thus eminently synthsesizable.) But the B'way orchestra? The slightest sign of human life is already frowned upon. This is nothing new...technology is simply catching up to already existing demands. There is (was?) a wonderful story on Bob Brookmeyer's website about how J.J. Johnson came over to Bob's apartment in the 1950s in absolute shock and horror after doing his first B'way performance and got uncharacteristically drunk. He was appalled at the regimentation and general lack of musicality of it. Horrified. Musicians on B'way often get that 1000 yard stare usually associated w/Vietnam vets and other post traumatic shock patients. I'm not exaggerating. They really do. Now someone is going to come on here and tell me how valuable B'way is to the culture, how many musicians make a living from playing B'way shows and tours, blah blah blah, and that is (or at least was at one time) all true. But how much does B'way really contribute to our culture today? At one time it produced a body of popular song unmatched in history...go ahead, sing me one melody from a B'way hit over the last 20 or 30 years. Can't quite recall one? Exactly. They have no content; the music is just filler for the spectacle. (I except Sondheim from this generalization and a few others as well, but he is in a class by himself.ASnd he has to deal w/this mounting cost feedback system too.) As far as musicians making a living...yes, indeed they do. At minimum wage (if you factor in all the time they spent learning how to play and maintaining their skills), under the harsh demands of a cold and unforgiving performance scene, at the mercy of contractors and largely incompetent conductors, most of whom are themselves cold, unforgiving hustlers and bottom liners whose sole preferences musically are subservient loyalty and unquestioning obedience...characteristics, I might add, perfectly filled by synthesizers w/no discomfort or strain whatsoever... It's going to happen; all that can be done is to fight a rear guard delaying action like the unions did when railroad trains changed from high maintenance steam engines to more modern technologies. Are you familiar w/the concept of "walkers"? For those of you who are not, let me fill you in. They are a symptom of a basic mistake the musicians' unions made many. many years ago. The union (in NYC at least, and probably elsewhere as well...and this is an understandable mistake, driven by an attempt to preserve work for their members) set minimum orchestra sizes in every B'way theater dependent on the seating capacity of the theater. 20 musicians, 15, 12...whatever that minimum was, that was the orchestra size that was required in that theater for a musical (and here is the conceptual error) NO MATTER WHAT THE MUSICAL DEMANDS OF THE SHOW. This was done to combat the admittedly greedy tendencies of most B'way producers, who wanted to pay as few musicians as little as possible in order to maximize profits, but it substituted LABOR demands for MUSICAL ones. The result...besides ongoing and endless friction between the union and the producers...was the concept of walkers. If a show really only needed a string quartet or a dixieland band or a 16 piece big band but had a 20 musician minimum, the producers were forced to hire the extra musicians anyway and pay them even though they did not play. Walkers. If this sounds like something out of "Catch-22"...it is. Joseph Heller himself couldn't have thought of a more ridiculous scenario. This idea, multiplied many times by other unions, helped to drive the production costs of B'way up through the roof. That in turn made maximum profitability even more of a necessity for the producers, which drove them to produce ever more elaborate and UN-musical musicals built for the long, long run. (No individualistic performance tendencies make for easier slotting in of performers as they move on and/or burn out.) Set up a feedback system of this sort, and in the end the piper must be paid. So here we are, 40 or 50+ years later, and the dehumanized tendencies of B'way and current technological advances meet on day on 44th Street. BOOM !!! No more walkers. No more MUSICIANS. The musicians' union made "union" demands come before "musical" demands, and now they are about to be forced to pay the price. Now this movement COULD fail...technology may not be as advanced as the producers think it is and productions will crash and burn as the technology fails; audiences may actually sense in their dim lower brains that something is missing (I doubt this as far as B'way musical audiences are concerned...walking through the B'way crowd before and after theater performances has always reminded me of the movie "Night Of The Living Dead"), and perhaps the rear guard labor action may be at least temporarily successful if the other B'way unions decide they too are under threat of replacement...something that is quite doubtful to me because you can't synthesize most of what stagehands, ushers and actors do. But unless the B'way musical itself is re-humanized...a very iffy proposition if production costs remain astronomical...or the audience itself changes its composition radically, which is also price dependent, then this movement will continue to its logical end. Three or four musician/technicians, a bank of synths and a conductor w/a baton or a cyber suit of some sort that controls entrances and tempos. Bet on it. And for musicians...I say again, find work where you are not replaceable background additions to the main action. Then you will not be ABLE to be replaced. Later... Sam -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:20:05 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office Hi all... For those of you who are also on the OTJ Forum, you may miss my presence there for a few days. I have been suspended for a week by Dr. Human, ostensibly for alleged insults to another member. (There are other factors here...bet on it.) This is like junior high school, being sent to the Principal's office. Dr. Human, Vice Principal in charge of discipline. Puerile and demeaning. I did not "insult" anyone, unless indeed pointing out (w/more than sufficient evidence) that someone is and has been consistently quite wrong is to be considered insulting. More developments to follow...stay tuned. S. -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:12:54 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Re: OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office Drama on the OTJ! Are the messages which precipitated the suspensions still posted. Seriously though, Sam, we all hope that you will be back. You are an invaluable asset to the forum. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:22:10 -0500 From: JB Subject: Re: OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office Sam, I agree that your suspension was premature and unwarranted. I hope you will come back to the forum when you can, as I consider both you and Actikid to be invaluable resources. -- John B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "sabutin" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:20 AM Subject: [TBN-L] OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office > Hi all... > > For those of you who are also on the OTJ Forum, you may miss my > presence there for a few days. > > I have been suspended for a week by Dr. Human, ostensibly for > alleged insults to another member. > > (There are other factors here...bet on it.) > > This is like junior high school, being sent to the Principal's office. > > Dr. Human, Vice Principal in charge of discipline. > > Puerile and demeaning. > > I did not "insult" anyone, unless indeed pointing out (w/more than > sufficient evidence) that someone is and has been consistently quite > wrong is to be considered insulting. > > More developments to follow...stay tuned. > > S. > -- > (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor > of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used > lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at > [still under construction], email us at > , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By > appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:39:32 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Live Music Petition This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------42445F9382837DD8EA0FF28C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric & Candice Swanson wrote: > For the sake of all live music everywhere, take just a minute to go to > this site and sign this petition. If they eliminate the live orchestras > on Broadway, they will be gone when shows come to your city too. > > Thanks, > > Eric Swanson > Dallas/Fort Worth Gee, I guess i would help if I'd put a link to the site. http://www.savelivebroadway.com/ --------------42445F9382837DD8EA0FF28C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3E3B5D47.EE6E24A8@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:38:14 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Reply-To: swan325@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: trombone-l Subject: Live Music Petition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the sake of all live music everywhere, take just a minute to go to this site and sign this petition. If they eliminate the live orchestras on Broadway, they will be gone when shows come to your city too. Thanks, Eric Swanson Dallas/Fort Worth --------------42445F9382837DD8EA0FF28C-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:00:44 -0600 From: Billy Cordova Subject: Re: OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office An explainaton for the suspensions can be found at http://www.trombone.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=0 00075 . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:18:10 +0100 From: Remco Wagemakers/Sandra Bouwman Subject: Re: OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office > An explainaton for the suspensions can be found at > http://www.trombone.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=0 > 00075 . Not much of an explanation... Could anyone tell me in what postings the two have been "naughty"? Remco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:26:15 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office you have the right to remain silent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you have the right of free speech ??????????????????????? you have the right to remain silent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! an attorney will be provided to speak in your behalf public relations ////// spin doctors ////// damage control sabutin wrote: > Hi all... > > For those of you who are also on the OTJ Forum, you may miss my > presence there for a few days. > > I have been suspended for a week by Dr. Human, ostensibly for > alleged insults to another member. > > (There are other factors here...bet on it.) > > This is like junior high school, being sent to the Principal's office. > > Dr. Human, Vice Principal in charge of discipline. > > Puerile and demeaning. > > I did not "insult" anyone, unless indeed pointing out (w/more than > sufficient evidence) that someone is and has been consistently quite > wrong is to be considered insulting. > > More developments to follow...stay tuned. > > S. > -- > (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor > of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used > lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at > [still under construction], email us at > , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By > appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:28:11 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: OTJ Forum and being sent to the Principal's office i know nothing no comment no statements at this time trombones re enter space in fire extremely important notes in science data rocket man final blasts -------over nogadoches texas Billy Cordova wrote: > An explainaton for the suspensions can be found at > http://www.trombone.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=0 > 00075 . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:57:18 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Edwards .547 horn for sale, Elkhart Conn bass sought I have been keeping a fairly thorough record of the selling prices of horns on ebay over the past 3 months or so.Anyone who wants to know what a given horn is selling for in the auction world...admittedly a little low. generally, compared to stores + other face to face sales...feel free to email me. Sam >Please don't take this as a flame, because it isn't intended to be. > >I have often wondered how people arrive at asking prices for used horns. >I am not questioning Ryan's pricing, because the way that auction is >going, it looks like it will make his reserve. I am also a firm >believer that a free market will set its own prices, although a used >trombone market might not be big enough to escape the affect of a few >crazies. > >Anyway, my point is Ryan (in this example) is selling a horn that is a >"few years" old. It looks to be in excellent condition, except it is >missing one of three leadpipes. His reserve is "almost $400 less than a >new one," making the reserve around $1200, according to his numbers. >Now like I said, I am not trying to flame Ryan, actually it seems that >he must be smarter than I am, because he is going to get more money for >the horn that I would have if I were selling it. It just seems to me >that 25% from new price is too close for a used horn. Is my perception >vastly different from most used trombone buyers? How do you go about >determining what you ask for a used instrument, or what you will pay for >a used instrument? > >Jeff Albert > >www.jeffalbert.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE- >> L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Ryan Miller >> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 1:02 AM >> To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU >> Subject: [TBN-L] Edwards .547 horn for sale, Elkhart Conn bass sought >> >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16216&item=250386 >98 >> 53 >> >> >> Sorry for the shameful plug of my auction. This is a great horn and >it's >> in >> nearly mint condition. It has no valve so you can add whatever your >heart >> desires. The reserve is almost $400 less than a new one like it. >> >> >> Does anyone out there have an Elkhart Conn bass trombone they want to >> sell? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> Ryan Miller >> trombonist -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:23:08 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: What Site? Sorry Sam, But I CAN sing songs from B'way shows from the last 20-30 years. ANY thing from Les MisŽrables or Miss Saigon, and both of those are well within the 30 years. Of course that's me. :-) Tom At one time it produced a body of popular song > unmatched in > history...go ahead, sing me one melody from a B'way > hit over the last > 20 or 30 years. > > Can't quite recall one? Many! Bring Him Home, At the End of the Day, Empty Chairs at empty tables, Do you hear the people sing, One Day More, etc. (and in 17 languages) :-) Tom (who plays touring shows) > > Exactly. They have no content; the music is just > filler for the > spectacle. (I except Sondheim from this > generalization and a few > others as well, but he is in a class by himself.ASnd > he has to deal > w/this mounting cost feedback system too.) > > As far as musicians making a living...yes, > indeed they do. > > At minimum wage (if you factor in all the time > they spent learning > how to play and maintaining their skills), under the > harsh demands of > a cold and unforgiving performance scene, at the > mercy of contractors > and largely incompetent conductors, most of whom are > themselves cold, > unforgiving hustlers and bottom liners whose sole > preferences > musically are subservient loyalty and unquestioning > obedience...characteristics, I might add, perfectly > filled by > synthesizers w/no discomfort or strain whatsoever... > > It's going to happen; all that can be done is to > fight a rear > guard delaying action like the unions did when > railroad trains > changed from high maintenance steam engines to more > modern > technologies. > > Are you familiar w/the concept of "walkers"? > > For those of you who are not, let me fill you > in. They are a > symptom of a basic mistake the musicians' unions > made many. many > years ago. > > The union (in NYC at least, and probably > elsewhere as well...and > this is an understandable mistake, driven by an > attempt to preserve > work for their members) set minimum orchestra sizes > in every B'way > theater dependent on the seating capacity of the > theater. > > 20 musicians, 15, 12...whatever that minimum > was, that was the > orchestra size that was required in that theater for > a musical (and > here is the conceptual error) NO MATTER WHAT THE > MUSICAL DEMANDS OF > THE SHOW. > > This was done to combat the admittedly greedy > tendencies of most > B'way producers, who wanted to pay as few musicians > as little as > possible in order to maximize profits, but it > substituted LABOR > demands for MUSICAL ones. > > The result...besides ongoing and endless > friction between the > union and the producers...was the concept of > walkers. > > If a show really only needed a string quartet or > a dixieland band > or a 16 piece big band but had a 20 musician > minimum, the producers > were forced to hire the extra musicians anyway and > pay them even > though they did not play. > > Walkers. > > If this sounds like something out of > "Catch-22"...it is. > > Joseph Heller himself couldn't have thought of a > more ridiculous scenario. > > This idea, multiplied many times by other > unions, === message truncated === ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:29:35 -0500 From: john burton Subject: Re: What Site? Y'know I started to ask about the songs from "My One and Only"... But then those songs are REALLY from a much earlier time.. (Gotta wander off and play that LP again...) ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= john burton Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra South Charleston, West Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Izzo Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 3:23 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] What Site? Sorry Sam, But I CAN sing songs from B'way shows from the last 20-30 years. ANY thing from Les MisŽrables or Miss Saigon, and both of those are well within the 30 years. Of course that's me. :-) Tom At one time it produced a body of popular song > unmatched in > history...go ahead, sing me one melody from a B'way > hit over the last > 20 or 30 years. > > Can't quite recall one? Many! Bring Him Home, At the End of the Day, Empty Chairs at empty tables, Do you hear the people sing, One Day More, etc. (and in 17 languages) :-) Tom (who plays touring shows) > > Exactly. They have no content; the music is just > filler for the > spectacle. (I except Sondheim from this > generalization and a few > others as well, but he is in a class by himself.ASnd > he has to deal > w/this mounting cost feedback system too.) > > As far as musicians making a living...yes, > indeed they do. > > At minimum wage (if you factor in all the time > they spent learning > how to play and maintaining their skills), under the > harsh demands of > a cold and unforgiving performance scene, at the > mercy of contractors > and largely incompetent conductors, most of whom are themselves cold, > unforgiving hustlers and bottom liners whose sole > preferences > musically are subservient loyalty and unquestioning > obedience...characteristics, I might add, perfectly > filled by > synthesizers w/no discomfort or strain whatsoever... > > It's going to happen; all that can be done is to > fight a rear > guard delaying action like the unions did when > railroad trains > changed from high maintenance steam engines to more > modern > technologies. > > Are you familiar w/the concept of "walkers"? > > For those of you who are not, let me fill you > in. They are a > symptom of a basic mistake the musicians' unions > made many. many > years ago. > > The union (in NYC at least, and probably > elsewhere as well...and > this is an understandable mistake, driven by an > attempt to preserve > work for their members) set minimum orchestra sizes > in every B'way > theater dependent on the seating capacity of the > theater. > > 20 musicians, 15, 12...whatever that minimum > was, that was the > orchestra size that was required in that theater for > a musical (and > here is the conceptual error) NO MATTER WHAT THE > MUSICAL DEMANDS OF > THE SHOW. > > This was done to combat the admittedly greedy > tendencies of most > B'way producers, who wanted to pay as few musicians > as little as > possible in order to maximize profits, but it > substituted LABOR > demands for MUSICAL ones. > > The result...besides ongoing and endless > friction between the > union and the producers...was the concept of > walkers. > > If a show really only needed a string quartet or > a dixieland band > or a 16 piece big band but had a 20 musician > minimum, the producers > were forced to hire the extra musicians anyway and > pay them even > though they did not play. > > Walkers. > > If this sounds like something out of > "Catch-22"...it is. > > Joseph Heller himself couldn't have thought of a > more ridiculous scenario. > > This idea, multiplied many times by other > unions, === message truncated === ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:31:37 -0800 From: Andrew Michael Subject: Re: What Site? At 9:30 AM -0400 2/1/03, sabutin wrote: > > There is no movement afoot to replace opera orchestras >w/synthsesizers, nor symphony orchestras either. Actually, the first time I heard about the conductor and machine setup it was being applied to a touring opera company or at least being proposed for that use. The stated goal was to lower costs and provide more jobs for singers. I agree that Broadway is not all it used to be, but appeasement is a dangerous policy. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:10:15 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: What Site? >Sorry Sam, But I CAN sing songs from B'way shows from >the last 20-30 years. >ANY thing from Les Misérables or Miss Saigon, and both >of those are well within the 30 years. >Of course that's me. :-) > >Tom ============= Tom... You must have perfect recall...they elude me completely. Sam -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:06:17 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: a turning point >This is about Frank Gehry, the architect. But it's sure had an impact on my >wife and I as we've been struggling with my decision whether to return to >music after this seven-year forced layoff. > >In the latest issue of the AARP magazine (I'm not that old. It's just that my >driver's license - like that famous sheep of yore - lies) Gehry says: "The >turning point in my creative life was when I realized that what I was doing >and thinking was the only thing I could do and think. Anything else would >have been contrived." > >Stick to your guns, folks. Stick to your guns. > >Mike Suter >Slidewerke >The National Slide Quartet >PrimeSlide Design ============= I couldn't agree more. Duke Ellington said: "I don't pursue anything. The only thing I always answer is my own impulse." And Hazrat Inayat Khan, a Northern Indian musician and spiritual teacher, said "Success comes when reason, the store of experience, surrenders to will", "He who thinks against his own desire, he is his own enemy" and also "Sincerity is the jewel that forms in the shell of the heart". There y'have it. Play on, Mike...if you are acting from your heart, you're in good company. S. -- -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:25:33 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: What Site? and OTJ From: "sabutin" > >Too late. They've just synthesized the whole of Broadway. > > > I know you are making a joke here, Adrian, but the truth of the > matter is that most of B'way is already a synthetic product. It was written in a jocular (sarcastic, maybe) manner Sam, but it describes the way I feel about the direction the whole music business is going. I'm amazed at the way you were able to expand my one-liner into a full length essay, and brilliant it was. I've never yet visited the OTJ, but I'm sure those who do will be worse off for not having you around. Cheers, A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:31:59 -0800 From: Robert Slaven Subject: I found my bone! So I had this meeting downtown this morning. When it was over, seeing as how I was right by pawn shop central, I figured I'd take another look. Yeah, the break-in was almost 3 months ago, but you never know, eh? Sure enough, in the window of pawn shop #4 (only 75,000 people here, but there are 6 or more of 'em within 3 blocks of each other), hanging from a jerry-rigged coathanger, with a sticker price of (Canadian) $175, was a battered-but-beautiful King 4B. I recognised every single ding and lacquer-removed-by-sweat mark on it. Having my name engraved on the latches of the case clinched it. Now, I paid the pawn shop $100 (they got it for $50), but I figure my insurance company will be much happier paying me that back vs. the $2750 or whatever if I hadn't found it. Mouthpiece has been jammed in, but a quick call to a local repair guy should fix that. So, to everyone who gave me all the great advice about buying; thank you very much!! And if I come into cash some other way, we'll see what happens. (I'd still like a nice smallbore some day....) Time to start playing this thing! Robert -- Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too All the other things -- victories, achievements, honors, causes -- they bring only momentary flashes of pleasure. But binding yourself to another person and to the children you make together, that's life." - Orson Scott Card, 'Shadow of the Hegemon' --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 2003/01/21 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:38:13 -0600 From: Bill Dinwiddie Subject: Fw: [TBN-L] I found my bone! Robert, You are an incredibly lucky person. I never knew anyone who got their instrument back once it had been stolen. The only exception to that is when I actually caught a guy in the act of stealing my trombone, back when I attended DePaul University. I hauled him into the Dean's office and I can remember the Dean giving him a stern lecture and then bestowing upon him the Ultimate Sanction - having him ejected from the building! I'll wager that he never stole another trombone after that scare! Anyway, congratulations. Bill Dinwiddie bill752d@attbi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Slaven" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 5:31 PM Subject: [TBN-L] I found my bone! > So I had this meeting downtown this morning. When it was over, seeing as how > I was right by pawn shop central, I figured I'd take another look. Yeah, the > break-in was almost 3 months ago, but you never know, eh? > > Sure enough, in the window of pawn shop #4 (only 75,000 people here, but there > are 6 or more of 'em within 3 blocks of each other), hanging from a > jerry-rigged coathanger, with a sticker price of (Canadian) $175, was a > battered-but-beautiful King 4B. > > I recognised every single ding and lacquer-removed-by-sweat mark on it. > Having my name engraved on the latches of the case clinched it. > > Now, I paid the pawn shop $100 (they got it for $50), but I figure my > insurance company will be much happier paying me that back vs. the $2750 or > whatever if I hadn't found it. Mouthpiece has been jammed in, but a quick > call to a local repair guy should fix that. > > So, to everyone who gave me all the great advice about buying; thank you very > much!! And if I come into cash some other way, we'll see what happens. (I'd > still like a nice smallbore some day....) Time to start playing this thing! > > Robert > -- > Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca > ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too > All the other things -- victories, achievements, honors, causes -- they > bring only momentary flashes of pleasure. But binding yourself to > another person and to the children you make together, that's life." > - Orson Scott Card, 'Shadow of the Hegemon' > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 2003/01/21 > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:45:00 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Testosterone Replacement Therapy This is on topic. Really! As someone who was into competitive powerlifting I marveled at how strong some of the older lifters are. People who train steadily all their life maintain strength for a much longer time than what most people would guess. But inevitably there is a decline at some point. Now that I'm back at it with trombone I marvel at you old folks still playing in orchestras into your late 50s and 60s. The smaller muscles of the face seem to be able to be maintained a little longer than the larger muscles in the body. Most are familiar with testosterone replacement therapy but if you're not, it's used, as far as I know, either for someone who has abnormally low testosterone levels that needs them brought up to normal, or it's used as someone ages to maintain the testosterone level that a younger male will have. (I have no idea how this would apply to women, I don't mean to exclude them, I realize there are plenty of female trombone players.) As this idea of keeping the testosterone level at younger levels becomes more popular, I wonder if this would have any application in helping men (not sure about women) to play later in years. I haven't thought through the ethical concerns yet. It may turn out to be something I'm opposed to for all I know at this point. I assume what I'm talking about would be legal. But on the off chance anyone has undergone this and would be willing to talk about it, that would be interesting to hear if it improved your endurance and strength. Or maybe the muscles in the face are too small and insignificant to be affected to a great degree? I realize this isn't like an athlete using steroids for performance (I wouldn't put it past some people to try it for brass playing), it's much more subtle. Or maybe if anyone wanted to just talk about how late in life they are able to maintain their chops and how their practice has changed later in life. Sorry for all the words. I'm not meaning to start an ethical debate or stir up trouble. Just wondering how this could affect playing a brass instrument in later year. I'm only 38 and have plenty of time. :) Here's an article on it: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-01-28-testosterone-usat_x.htm Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:57:52 -0600 From: Chris Waage Subject: Re: I found my bone! I do hope that you put the local police in touch with the pawn shop as well. Nothing feels better than getting your horn back, unless it's getting your horn back AND putting the scumbag who stole it in prison. Chris On 2/1/03 5:31 PM, "Robert Slaven" wrote: > So I had this meeting downtown this morning. When it was over, seeing as how > I was right by pawn shop central, I figured I'd take another look. Yeah, the > break-in was almost 3 months ago, but you never know, eh? > > Sure enough, in the window of pawn shop #4 (only 75,000 people here, but there > are 6 or more of 'em within 3 blocks of each other), hanging from a > jerry-rigged coathanger, with a sticker price of (Canadian) $175, was a > battered-but-beautiful King 4B. > > I recognised every single ding and lacquer-removed-by-sweat mark on it. > Having my name engraved on the latches of the case clinched it. > > Now, I paid the pawn shop $100 (they got it for $50), but I figure my > insurance company will be much happier paying me that back vs. the $2750 or > whatever if I hadn't found it. Mouthpiece has been jammed in, but a quick > call to a local repair guy should fix that. > > So, to everyone who gave me all the great advice about buying; thank you very > much!! And if I come into cash some other way, we'll see what happens. (I'd > still like a nice smallbore some day....) Time to start playing this thing! > > Robert > -- > Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca > ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too > All the other things -- victories, achievements, honors, causes -- they > bring only momentary flashes of pleasure. But binding yourself to > another person and to the children you make together, that's life." > - Orson Scott Card, 'Shadow of the Hegemon' > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 2003/01/21 > -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:00:30 -0500 From: "Hector Bourg Jr." Subject: Re: Testosterone Replacement Therapy Jeff, Things are not anywhere near as bleak as you seem to think. I'm one of those "old guys"...64 to be precise...and I'm still playing...and actually playing better than at anytime in my life! We had another guy in our band who was still playing professionally (on bass trombone) when he was 81! Plus, I have personally witnessed Buddy Morrow play Dorsey's IGSOY entirely UP AN OCTAVE...and he was somewhere in his mid to late 70s at that point. Now, there MIGHT be a reason for testosterone therapy, but this list is not the place...... Butch **************************************************************************** *** Hector "Butch" Bourg Jr. - Graphic and Web Design - Atlanta, GA **************************************************************************** *** Trombonist - Sentimental Journey Orchestra - http://www.thesjo.com ** NOW CELEBRATING TWENTY-SEVEN SWINGIN' YEARS ** **************************************************************************** *** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Oien" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:45 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy > This is on topic. Really! > > As someone who was into competitive powerlifting I marveled > at how strong some of the older lifters are. People who train > steadily all their life maintain strength for a much longer time > than what most people would guess. But inevitably there is > a decline at some point. > > Now that I'm back at it with trombone I marvel at you old folks > still playing in orchestras into your late 50s and 60s. The smaller > muscles of the face seem to be able to be maintained a little > longer than the larger muscles in the body. > > Most are familiar with testosterone replacement therapy but if > you're not, it's used, as far as I know, either for someone who > has abnormally low testosterone levels that needs them brought > up to normal, or it's used as someone ages to maintain the > testosterone level that a younger male will have. (I have no idea > how this would apply to women, I don't mean to exclude them, > I realize there are plenty of female trombone players.) > > As this idea of keeping the testosterone level at younger levels > becomes more popular, I wonder if this would have any application > in helping men (not sure about women) to play later in years. I > haven't thought through the ethical concerns yet. It may turn out > to be something I'm opposed to for all I know at this point. I > assume what I'm talking about would be legal. > > But on the off chance anyone has undergone this and would be > willing to talk about it, that would be interesting to hear if it improved > your endurance and strength. Or maybe the muscles in the face > are too small and insignificant to be affected to a great degree? > I realize this isn't like an athlete using steroids for performance > (I wouldn't put it past some people to try it for brass playing), it's > much more subtle. > > Or maybe if anyone wanted to just talk about how late in life they > are able to maintain their chops and how their practice has changed > later in life. > > Sorry for all the words. I'm not meaning to start an ethical debate > or stir up trouble. Just wondering how this could affect playing > a brass instrument in later year. I'm only 38 and have plenty of > time. :) > > Here's an article on it: > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-01-28-testosterone-usat_x.htm > > Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:11:35 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: Re: Testosterone Replacement Therapy On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Jeff Oien wrote: > As someone who was into competitive powerlifting I marveled Have you competed against Jack Robinson? I heard tell he was an over-50 power lifting champion. > But on the off chance anyone has undergone this and would be > willing to talk about it, that would be interesting to hear if it improved > your endurance and strength. Or maybe the muscles in the face One of the euphonium players in my brass band was using testosterone patches a few years ago. I don't know if he's still using them. I haven't noticed that he's looking any more buff, and he's not as aggressive as the women in the section... He's also twice your age. The NPR program > Sorry for all the words. I'm not meaning to start an ethical debate I don't think you'll stir up any upset about male hormone replacement therapy. I don't know where testosterone for that purpose comes from--unlike estrogen, which is collected from pregnant mare urine. Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:22:15 -0600 From: Bill Dinwiddie Subject: Fw: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy I'd like to second Butch's experience in hearing Buddy Morrow play the trombone. I heard him when he was over 80. He blew me away! Buddy was certainly one of the most underrated players of the 20th century. Bill Dinwiddie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hector Bourg Jr." To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy > Jeff, > > Things are not anywhere near as bleak as you seem to think. I'm one of those > "old guys"...64 to be precise...and I'm still playing...and actually playing > better than at anytime in my life! We had another guy in our band who was > still playing professionally (on bass trombone) when he was 81! Plus, I have > personally witnessed Buddy Morrow play Dorsey's IGSOY entirely UP AN > OCTAVE...and he was somewhere in his mid to late 70s at that point. > > Now, there MIGHT be a reason for testosterone therapy, but this list is not > the place...... > > Butch > > **************************************************************************** > *** > Hector "Butch" Bourg Jr. - Graphic and Web Design - Atlanta, GA > **************************************************************************** > *** > Trombonist - Sentimental Journey Orchestra - http://www.thesjo.com > ** NOW CELEBRATING TWENTY-SEVEN SWINGIN' YEARS ** > **************************************************************************** > *** > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Oien" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:45 PM > Subject: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy > > > > This is on topic. Really! > > > > As someone who was into competitive powerlifting I marveled > > at how strong some of the older lifters are. People who train > > steadily all their life maintain strength for a much longer time > > than what most people would guess. But inevitably there is > > a decline at some point. > > > > Now that I'm back at it with trombone I marvel at you old folks > > still playing in orchestras into your late 50s and 60s. The smaller > > muscles of the face seem to be able to be maintained a little > > longer than the larger muscles in the body. > > > > Most are familiar with testosterone replacement therapy but if > > you're not, it's used, as far as I know, either for someone who > > has abnormally low testosterone levels that needs them brought > > up to normal, or it's used as someone ages to maintain the > > testosterone level that a younger male will have. (I have no idea > > how this would apply to women, I don't mean to exclude them, > > I realize there are plenty of female trombone players.) > > > > As this idea of keeping the testosterone level at younger levels > > becomes more popular, I wonder if this would have any application > > in helping men (not sure about women) to play later in years. I > > haven't thought through the ethical concerns yet. It may turn out > > to be something I'm opposed to for all I know at this point. I > > assume what I'm talking about would be legal. > > > > But on the off chance anyone has undergone this and would be > > willing to talk about it, that would be interesting to hear if it improved > > your endurance and strength. Or maybe the muscles in the face > > are too small and insignificant to be affected to a great degree? > > I realize this isn't like an athlete using steroids for performance > > (I wouldn't put it past some people to try it for brass playing), it's > > much more subtle. > > > > Or maybe if anyone wanted to just talk about how late in life they > > are able to maintain their chops and how their practice has changed > > later in life. > > > > Sorry for all the words. I'm not meaning to start an ethical debate > > or stir up trouble. Just wondering how this could affect playing > > a brass instrument in later year. I'm only 38 and have plenty of > > time. :) > > > > Here's an article on it: > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-01-28-testosterone-usat_x.htm > > > > Jeff Oien > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:27:52 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Re: Testosterone Replacement Therapy > Jeff, > > Things are not anywhere near as bleak as you seem to think. I'm one of those > "old guys"...64 to be precise...and I'm still playing...and actually playing > better than at anytime in my life! We had another guy in our band who was > still playing professionally (on bass trombone) when he was 81! Plus, I have > personally witnessed Buddy Morrow play Dorsey's IGSOY entirely UP AN > OCTAVE...and he was somewhere in his mid to late 70s at that point. > > Now, there MIGHT be a reason for testosterone therapy, but this list is not > the place...... > > Butch Hey, that's great to hear. Sounds like it might be best to drop the original subject if that's the case and only talk about how practice may change (or not) while getting older. > Dr. Carole Nowicke: > Have you competed against Jack Robinson? I heard tell he was an over-50 > power lifting champion. No, I only competed once and it was small potatoes. Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:45:20 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: Re: Testosterone Replacement Therapy > The NPR program Sorry this didn't stick... http://www.thislife.org/pages/archive02.html Testosterone August 30, 2002 Episode 220 Can listen to some of it, if not all. Had nothing to do with trombone playing, but I happened to listen to this piece twice on long car trips. In one segment, a group of colleagues from the radio program (male and female) decided to have their testosterone tested and to see if they could guess, by personality characteristics, etc. who had the highest levels of testosterone. Among the women tested, the pregnant woman tested highest, and the men were upset that their male colleague who was self-described as "bald, gay, French-Canadian and Jewish" was highest. Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:55:06 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: FS: New Conn 88H CL SGX Greetings. I have for sale a brand-new Conn 88H CL SGX straight .547 bore tenor trombone with F attachment. It comes complete with original locking hard shell case, all documentation, gold-plated Christian Lindberg mouthpiece, and two rotor caps. Here are the specs from Conn: Sterling silver bell, .547" (13.89mm) bore with patented CL2000 F rotor system, open wrap .562" (14.27mm) bore through F rotor, 8-1/2" (216mm) Sterling silver bell with 24K gold plated inner bell, tuning slide. Silver plated rose brass outer slide, 24K gold plated trim, C.G. Conn mouthpiece, 7521L woodshell case. 40% faster roter action & virtually no response difference between F & Bb sides. You can see photos at: Www.dalecruse.com/88h1.jpg Www.dalecruse.com/88h2.jpg I must emphasize that this is NOT a used horn - it is brand new and still has the tags on the case. If you or anyone you know is interested, please contact me directly. Serious offers only. ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:53:52 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: What Site? and OTJ >From: "sabutin" > > >> >Too late. They've just synthesized the whole of Broadway. >> > >> I know you are making a joke here, Adrian, but the truth of the >> matter is that most of B'way is already a synthetic product. > > >It was written in a jocular (sarcastic, maybe) manner Sam, but it describes >the way I feel about the direction the whole music business is going. > >I'm amazed at the way you were able to expand my one-liner into a full >length essay, and brilliant it was. ============== Just good morning coffee, Adrian... Sam ================ > >I've never yet visited the OTJ, but I'm sure those who do will be worse off >for not having you around. > >Cheers, A. > >Adrian Drover >ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:33:29 -0600 From: Fred Hudson Subject: Re: Fw: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy Buddy Morrow and the TD Orchestra played here in September. At 82 Buddy is still going strong. He turned the IGSOY solo over to the young lead player but he still blew me away with "Night Train" just like he did in 1952 when his band played at one of our college dances. Fred Hudson (Old guy trying to regain his chops) What's the name of that stuff again? ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dinwiddie" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Fw: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy > I'd like to second Butch's experience in hearing Buddy Morrow play the > trombone. I heard him when he was over 80. He blew me away! Buddy was > certainly one of the most underrated players of the 20th century. > > Bill Dinwiddie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hector Bourg Jr." > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:00 PM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy > > > > Jeff, > > > > Things are not anywhere near as bleak as you seem to think. I'm one of > those > > "old guys"...64 to be precise...and I'm still playing...and actually > playing > > better than at anytime in my life! We had another guy in our band who was > > still playing professionally (on bass trombone) when he was 81! Plus, I > have > > personally witnessed Buddy Morrow play Dorsey's IGSOY entirely UP AN > > OCTAVE...and he was somewhere in his mid to late 70s at that point. > > > > Now, there MIGHT be a reason for testosterone therapy, but this list is > not > > the place...... > > > > Butch > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > *** > > Hector "Butch" Bourg Jr. - Graphic and Web Design - Atlanta, GA > > > **************************************************************************** > > *** > > Trombonist - Sentimental Journey Orchestra - http://www.thesjo.com > > ** NOW CELEBRATING TWENTY-SEVEN SWINGIN' YEARS ** > > > **************************************************************************** > > *** > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeff Oien" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:45 PM > > Subject: [TBN-L] Testosterone Replacement Therapy > > > > > > > This is on topic. Really! > > > > > > As someone who was into competitive powerlifting I marveled > > > at how strong some of the older lifters are. People who train > > > steadily all their life maintain strength for a much longer time > > > than what most people would guess. But inevitably there is > > > a decline at some point. > > > > > > Now that I'm back at it with trombone I marvel at you old folks > > > still playing in orchestras into your late 50s and 60s. The smaller > > > muscles of the face seem to be able to be maintained a little > > > longer than the larger muscles in the body. > > > > > > Most are familiar with testosterone replacement therapy but if > > > you're not, it's used, as far as I know, either for someone who > > > has abnormally low testosterone levels that needs them brought > > > up to normal, or it's used as someone ages to maintain the > > > testosterone level that a younger male will have. (I have no idea > > > how this would apply to women, I don't mean to exclude them, > > > I realize there are plenty of female trombone players.) > > > > > > As this idea of keeping the testosterone level at younger levels > > > becomes more popular, I wonder if this would have any application > > > in helping men (not sure about women) to play later in years. I > > > haven't thought through the ethical concerns yet. It may turn out > > > to be something I'm opposed to for all I know at this point. I > > > assume what I'm talking about would be legal. > > > > > > But on the off chance anyone has undergone this and would be > > > willing to talk about it, that would be interesting to hear if it > improved > > > your endurance and strength. Or maybe the muscles in the face > > > are too small and insignificant to be affected to a great degree? > > > I realize this isn't like an athlete using steroids for performance > > > (I wouldn't put it past some people to try it for brass playing), it's > > > much more subtle. > > > > > > Or maybe if anyone wanted to just talk about how late in life they > > > are able to maintain their chops and how their practice has changed > > > later in life. > > > > > > Sorry for all the words. I'm not meaning to start an ethical debate > > > or stir up trouble. Just wondering how this could affect playing > > > a brass instrument in later year. I'm only 38 and have plenty of > > > time. :) > > > > > > Here's an article on it: > > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-01-28-testosterone-usat_x.htm > > > > > > Jeff Oien > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:44:50 -0700 From: David Oliver Subject: Re: Testosterone Repl. (Buddy Morrow/Will Bradley) This talk (actually writing) about Buddy Morrow being underrated made me remember a section of Paul Tanner's book "Sideman, Stories About the Band" (Cosmo Space of America, Co, Ltd.) The book is about the Miller band obviously and is mainly various interviews over the years and lots of pictures. There is no index so I plodded through until I found what I was looking for. I'm not quoting it because "Oliver" is mentioned twice - really, honest... I thought I'd quote a revealing paragraph on page 55. The background is that the Miller, Dorsey, and Bradley bands were all combined together at Madison Square Garden once. "Well, Oliver Nelson or Si Oliver or someone had written a thing for three trombones, a terribly hard thing. And Dorsey and Bradley and Miller were to play it as a trio, and the band was to play an accompaniment for them. And when Glenn came back, it was a terribly hard thing, I figured that Dorsey was going to play lead. Glenn said, 'Bradley rescued us! He played the lead for us so we could get through it.' That's the opinion they had of Bradley. Of course Miller knew his playing from the Ray Noble days. He had organized the Ray Noble band for him." David Oliver Broomfield, Colorado USA Denver Concert Band Bill Dinwiddie wrote: > I'd like to second Butch's experience in hearing Buddy Morrow play the > trombone. I heard him when he was over 80. He blew me away! Buddy was > certainly one of the most underrated players of the 20th century. > > Bill Dinwiddie > ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 31 Jan 2003 to 1 Feb 2003 (#2003-32) ***************************************************************