Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Jan 2003 to 17 Jan 2003 (#2003-17) Date: Saturday, January 18, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 25 messages totalling 1606 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. schubert's unfinished (5) 2. All-American Youth Orchestra (1940 and 1941) (fwd) (2) 3. some university job postings 4. LATEX TRBN QT. SHORT CONCERT TOUR OK/KS 5. Advice on replacing a stolen trombone (6) 6. The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! 7. Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Advice on replacing a stolen trombone 8. Jolly Ball (3) 9. The U.S. Army Band Trombone Audition Announcement 10. the latest Shires valves 11. FS: 1960's King 3-B Silversonic w/ F Attachment 12. Calvert 13. Preparing for auditions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:14:59 +0100 From: Simon Bailey Subject: Re: schubert's unfinished thanks, roger, and everyone else who answered my question. looks like i've got some good playing to look forward to. :) have a nice day, simon. On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 00:42, Roger Hecht wrote: > At 11:45 PM 1/16/2003 +0100, Simon Bailey wrote: > >hi all, > > > >i'll probably be playing 3rd trombone in schubert's unfinished symphony > >with the uni-orchestra this semester, and wanted to ask if there's > >anything interesting in there (i won't be getting the parts for another > >few weeks)? > > Great part, quite interesting, and great piece. When Schubert used > trombones, he used them very well. > Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:15:07 +0900 From: Joseph Green Subject: Re: All-American Youth Orchestra (1940 and 1941) (fwd) Howard Weiner wrote: ... > In his book "Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind," Brian Frederiksen gives the > following roster of the brass players in the 1941 All-American Youth Orchestra: ... > Trombone 1 -- Charles Gusikoff That's probably a mistake. As Carole Nowicke wrote in a previous message (and as I heard privately from Doug Yeo, who had asked Edward Kleinhammer), Robert Lambert was in the '41 AAYO. In the photo at the U Penn website, the person playing first just looks too young to be Gusikoff. I'll have to find my copy of "Song and Wind" and compare the photos. Nitpickingly, JG PS. Maybe both Gusikoff and Lambert were in the orchestra, but only Lambert was there when the photo was taken. +++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 05:36:14 -0500 From: Peter Fielding Subject: some university job postings Hello everyone, just incase anyone was loking for a university teaching gig in the fall, here are two postings that I stumbled across. I'm interested in applying, but I really want to get my doctorate started before entering 'the real world'. All the best, Peter Fielding ------------------------------------------------------------------ Music - Assistant Professor Prairie View A&M University State/Region: TX Posted: 01/16/03 The Department of Music and Drama at Prairie View A&M University invites applications for a tenure-track position as Instructor of Low Brass, to begin the Fall semester, 2003. Applicants with the doctorate degree are preferred, but those possessing the Masters Degree will be considered. Applicants should show evidence of performance capability on a low brass instrument, demonstrated success as a teacher in this instrumental area and possess expertise in music technology applications. In addition to the teaching of low brass applied students, additional duties will include classes in Music Appreciation, Instrumental Methods and Conducting the Brass Ensemble. Salary and rank will be commensurate with experience. Applications should include a current resume', curriculum vita, undergraduate and graduate transcripts, a statement of teaching philosophy, and three letters of reference. The review of applications will begin immediately and continue until the position is filled. All materials should be sent to the below addresses: Office of Human Resources Prairie View A&M University P. O. Box 5 Prairie View, Texas 77446-0005 Apply To Mail: Gerard Rambally Prairie View A&M University College of Arts & Sciences P.O.Box 277 Prairie View, TX 77446-0277 Phone: 936 857 4710 Fax: 936 857 2118 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oklahoma State University Artist/Teacher of Trombone, Department of Music Application Due: 2/15/2003 Posted: 01/10/2003 Location: OK Type: Full Time The Department of Music, Oklahoma State University is accepting applications for the position of Artist/Teacher of Trombone. This is a tenure track position, beginning August 16, 2003. Responsibilities are as follows: Teach applied trombone and euphonium studio; teach low brass techniques to music education majors. Additional teaching assignments will be made according to the successful candidateÕs expertise and may include undergraduate and graduate level courses. In addition to instructional assignments, all music faculty are expected to be productive as scholars/artists and to engage in departmental, university and professional service. Earned doctorate preferred, Masters required. Demonstrated success in recruiting undergraduate and graduate students. Beginning date August 16, 2003. To receive full consideration, please submit letter of application, resume, transcripts, performance CD, and a minimum of three letters of recommendation to Trombone Studio Search Committee, Department of Music, 132 Seretean Center for the Performing Arts, Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK 74078-4077. Application deadline is February 15, 2003, but screening will continue until position is filled. Apply To Mail: Trombone Studio Search Committee Oklahoma State University Department of Music 132 Seretean Center for the Performing Arts Stillwater, OK 74078-4077 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 04:41:48 -0600 From: "Richard Z. Johnson" Subject: Re: LATEX TRBN QT. SHORT CONCERT TOUR OK/KS This is a very outstanding group! I had the pleasure of listening to them play at the ITF. In addition, Mike Davidson gave me trombone lessons for about a year or so. He is an outstanding teacher, professional trombonist and person. Tell Mike I said hello. I also had the pleasure of listening to the Shreveport Symphony which had Mike Davidson, Bill Mathis and Mark Thompson comprising the trombone section. They are a truly great and underrated section I also want to know how to purchase the cd! This is a can't miss concert for those who are close enough to attend! Tell Mike I said hi.....he'll remember me as being the assistant da from Mansfield! -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of ROSEBONE@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:05 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] LATEX TRBN QT. SHORT CONCERT TOUR OK/KS Dear List members, Just wanted to let all the folks know about the short tour we are doing w/ the LATEX quartet in OK and KS this week: Sunday, Jan. 19, 2003 Northwestern Oklahoma State University, Alva, OK Herod Hall, 8 p.m. Monday, Jan. 20, 2003 Oklahoma University, Norman, OK Catlett Music Center Recital Hall, 7 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 21, 2003 Wichita State University, Wichita, KS Wiedemann Recital Hall, 7:30 p.m. The group consists of Michael Davidson (Northwestern Oklahoma State Univ., alto & tenor tbn.), Dr. William Mathis(Bowling Green State University, alto & tenor tbn.), William Rose (McNeese State University, soprano, alto, tenor tbn.) and Dr. Mark Thompson (Northwestern State University [LA], tenor and bass tbn.) As many of you know, we use the consort concept much of the time, and switch horns (and sizes!) for almost every piece on the program. This mini-tour is also giving us a chance to show off our self-titled CD, which is just out. For those of you within shouting distance, we hope we will see you at one of the concerts. Bill Rose McNeese State University Lake Charles, LA rosebone@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:37:39 -0600 From: Scott Moore Subject: Re: schubert's unfinished Practice calm, quiet slurs from Eb to Ab with a diminuendo. Some guys freak out there at the end. Probably needs to be sharp too, since there's clarinets involved. DSM On Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 04:45 PM, Simon Bailey wrote: > hi all, > > i'll probably be playing 3rd trombone in schubert's unfinished symphony > with the uni-orchestra this semester, and wanted to ask if there's > anything interesting in there (i won't be getting the parts for another > few weeks)? > > regards, > simon. > > D. Scott Moore, Bass Trombone Music Department Gustavus Adolphus College phone: 507-933-6260 email: down8ve@hickorytech.net http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:48:07 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: Re: All-American Youth Orchestra (1940 and 1941) (fwd) On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Joseph Green wrote: > That's probably a mistake. As Carole Nowicke wrote in a previous message I asked Abe Torchinsky. Mr. Torchinsky had expressed his amusement on previous occasions on how "old" some of the youth were. He would have been 20 in 1940, and many of these "youth" were his senior by more than a few years. He was identifying the people he could see in the photos and would have known at the time. Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:57:13 -0500 From: David Buckley Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone I agree with Jim about the Bach 36. I have one and often use it for orchestra instead of my 88h although to be honest, my preference is to use the 88h whenever possible, maybe varying my Doug Elliot setup for subtle changes. Jay Castello, principal with Kihtcener Waterloo uses his Bach 36 whenever possible, often instead of an alto.I haven't played the Yamaha but have played beside Steve Butterworth, Yamaha Canada rep when he has used it and it sounds very good. Both are better orchestra horns than the 3B and good for all purpose stuff. BTW Jim, I think the Bach 36 is also 525 bore. Dave. Jim Gayfer wrote: > Sorry to hear about your horn. It depends a lot on the type of playing > you're going to be doing most. If you're going to be playing any classical > and you only want to buy one horn, I would suggest that you go with the Bach > 36 or Yamaha 683G (684G if you want a valve) as a good compromise horn. The > Bach I believe is a .520 bore and the Yamaha is .525 -- about halfway (well, > not quite) between an 88H and a 3B. They both work well in big band or > small group situations as well. > > Prince George!! I used to go up there when I was with the RCMP Band in > another lifetime. Is Mr. PG still standing? > > Jim Gayfer > Trombone/baritone > NorthWinds Brass Quintet > Ottawa, ON > (613) 523-4285 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Slaven [mailto:robertslaven@SHAW.CA] > Sent: January 16, 2003 3:03 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Advice on replacing a stolen trombone > > Greetings. I spent some time on the list a few years ago, but raising my > little brood has kept me away. Anyhow, I have a situation here where I'm > hoping you learned fellow bonists can help me out. > > We got broken into in November. Along with my wife's jewellery, our camera, > and my electric bass (just a Squier, no biggie), my battered-but-beloved > 1976 > King 4B was taken. > > I got that horn in Grade 10, and hauled it all around the Arctic on various > and sundry band trips. (Ever been to Tuktoyaktuk? Four times?!) Concert > band, wind ensemble, stage band, bit of orchestra, I did everything with it. > I played a bit in university, but then being a starving student and having a > young family meant I didn't play much in the 1980's. In the 90's I got back > into it, mostly playing lead in stage bands and musicals. At the time, > pushing all that air for all those hours through that big bone made me think > about buying a good used 2B or 6H or some such. > > Anyhow, I suppose the insurance company will be cutting me a cheque for > around > C$2500-3000, since I gather that's what a new 4B-with-F-attachment would > cost > me nowadays. But is that necessarily the way to go? I'm sort of looking at > five possibilities here: > > 1) Buy another 4B (or equivalent, e.g. 88H). But I find it really tiring to > push a lot of air through that horn if I continue to do lots of lead > jazz/musical work. Mind you, I'm no longer in my small hometown > (Yellowknife > NT), but am now in a less-small town (Prince George BC) where there are > enough > good players that I'd probably do more middle-part work. > > 2) Buy a 2B (or equivalent, e.g. 100H). That'd be lots of fun for lead > work; > but what if I don't get much lead work here? And would it be too bright > even > for 1st parts in a small orchestra, say? > > 3) Compromise with a 3B, or maybe a Bach 36. (I've gotta confess, that > two-bell 3B that Sabutin has on his Trombone Store site looks awfully > tempting!!) Full enough for a good orchestral sound, but small enough to be > a > nice 'efficient' horn for the lead/jazz/musical possibilities. But are > these > horns the best of both worlds, or the worst of both worlds? > > 4) Buy two used horns, a 2B/.500-ish horn and a 4B/.547 horn. I suspect I > could get such from Dillon's or somewhere for about the price of a new 4B. > But I don't have a lot of options in the area if it needs any work, so I'd > have to be *really* sure the horn was in good shape. > > 5) Sniffing around, I found that Jupiter has some decent-looking trombones > for > about the same price (new) as good used King/Conn/Bach trombones. I've > never > played a Jupiter bone, but I played a Jupiter double French horn (yes, I'm a > masochist) for a year, and it struck me as a pretty decent instrument; > well-made, played well, sounded pretty good. Blessing strikes me as being > in > the same league, although I have zero experience with that brand. For > someone > like me -- a decent amateur who plays occasionally but not constantly -- > would > dropping down to one of these brands be 'a good buy' or 'sacrificing too > much > quality'? > > Finally, if any of you are in BC or Alberta or Washington State, I'd > appreciate any recommendations for stores where I could go (e.g. in > Edmonton, > Calgary, Vancouver, or Seattle) for a decent selection of new and used horns > to try out for myself. I can't see anyone wanting to ship X horns all the > way > up here, and I suspect the local music store is more used to the > Yamaha-354/King-606 line of things for the schools. > > (And yes, there are a couple of local pros I'm going to ask for advice, too; > but I figure you can never have too much information on something like > this.) > > Thanks, everyone. It's good to be back. > > Robert > -- > Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca > ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too > You see, it's just that his brain is so tiny that the slightest > movement can dislodge it. - Monty Python's Flying Circus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:59:01 -0500 From: Jim Gayfer Subject: Re: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Thanks for info, Harlan. I had gone to the website of the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra that made the recording and it indicated that the recording released in 1994 was out of print. I'll check out CD Connection. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Harlan Feinstein [mailto:harlan@feinsteins.net] Sent: January 16, 2003 5:37 PM To: Gayfer, Jim Cc: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Jim> Don't worry, Jim, I don't make a practice of it but I understand Jim> that recording has been out of print for years. Actually, not true... just checked, and CDConnection.com (for one) has Garrison keillor's "Lake Wobegon Loyalty Days." I'm sure Amazon and others must have it too, since it's still apparently in print. --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:59:28 -0500 From: Walter Barrett Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but David Buckley > I agree with Jim about the Bach 36. I have one and often use it for orchestra > instead of my 88h although to be honest, my preference is to use the 88h > whenever possible, maybe varying my Doug Elliot setup for subtle changes. Jay > Castello, principal with Kihtcener Waterloo uses his Bach 36 whenever > possible, > often instead of an alto.I haven't played the Yamaha but have played beside > Steve Butterworth, Yamaha Canada rep when he has used it and it sounds very > good. Both are better orchestra horns than the 3B and good for all purpose > stuff. BTW Jim, I think the Bach 36 is also 525 bore. > > Dave. Yet another possibility would be to get an 88H, plus as an option, the .525/.547 slide (SL 2547????). That way, you'd have the full-out orchetra sound, plus you could lighten it up with the dual bore slide when needed. (Not to mention all the fun you can have changing leadpipes...) Walter Barrett "Music is a beautiful opiate, if you don¶t take it too seriously." -Henry Miller Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:16:19 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone I just posted this on the OTJ Forum. It applies here as well, so... ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Although things change by the month in some instances, my last contact w/the Conn .525 + .525/.547 versions of the 88H (last spring) made me think that those designs had not been developed nearly as well as their straight .547 horns. By all means, try extensively before you buy. Could be just a leadpipe or slide crook problem, and Ralph Sauer is playing principal in the LA Phil on a .525/.547, so it can't be a totally bad design. (You never know how his might have been tweaked, however...) The Bach 36 is an old and very successful design. If you get a good one (some question there w/Bach these days) it flat out works. King is coming out w/a .525 called the 3B+. Yamaha has a pretty good one too. All around the same price, I think. For another $500-$750, don't even mess around...get a Shires. My Shires .525 is flat out the best all around .525 I have ever played, and that includes some Mt. Vernon Bach 36s and Elkhart Conn 78Hs that I have owned. I have played an Edwards that was pretty good too, and I believe Rath is making one as well. Or...find a good pre-Selmer Bach or Elkhart Conn for around $1000 or less and have Gary Greenhoe convert it for about the same amount. Good luck...5 years ago you would have basically had 2 choices in new .525 horns...Bach or Yamaha. Now they are appearing everywhere. Why? Because they work. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ I might add, most of the above goes for the .525/.547 designs of those various makers as well. None from King or Bach,I don't think...maybe Yamaha...but Edwards + Shires for sure. Probably Rath too. Later... S. ================================ >Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but David Buckley > >> I agree with Jim about the Bach 36. I have one and often use it >>for orchestra >> instead of my 88h although to be honest, my preference is to use the 88h >> whenever possible, maybe varying my Doug Elliot setup for subtle >>changes. Jay >> Castello, principal with Kihtcener Waterloo uses his Bach 36 whenever >> possible, >> often instead of an alto.I haven't played the Yamaha but have played beside >> Steve Butterworth, Yamaha Canada rep when he has used it and it sounds very >> good. Both are better orchestra horns than the 3B and good for all purpose >> stuff. BTW Jim, I think the Bach 36 is also 525 bore. >> >> Dave. > >Yet another possibility would be to get an 88H, plus as an option, the >.525/.547 slide (SL 2547????). That way, you'd have the full-out orchetra >sound, plus you could lighten it up with the dual bore slide when needed. >(Not to mention all the fun you can have changing leadpipes...) > >Walter Barrett > >"Music is a beautiful opiate, if you don't take it too seriously." > -Henry Miller > > >Yamaha Artist/Clinician >Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones >Euphonium >Bass Trumpet >Tuba -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:35:53 -0500 From: Walter Barrett Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but sabutin > > I might add, most of the above goes for the .525/.547 designs of > those various makers as well. None from King or Bach,I don't > think...maybe Yamaha...but Edwards + Shires for sure. Probably Rath > too. > > > Later... > > S. Sam, et al... Yamaha isn't making a 525/547 horn or slide, although I keep mentioning it to them. Steve Turre's horn has those bore sizes, but his slide was made at Dillon's, and is not a stock item IIRC. Yamaha DOES make a German style dual bore horn, the YSL 603, and that has a removable F attachment. Bore .512" - .535" dual bore. Bell 8-4/5" gold brass. I haven't played one of those, but I have tried the German Bass (YBL 605?), and that was a sweet horn! Walter Barrett "I've always known that the trombone could be played different, that somebody'd catch on one of these days. Man, you're elected." -Dizzy Gillespie, to JJ Johnson Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:42:34 -0500 From: Randy Campora Subject: Re: schubert's unfinished Simon- Welcome to the world of orchestral music! This was the first piece I ever played with a symphony orchestra, in my Freshman year at Florida State. I recall that it was very difficult for me to figure out exactly how I should play this stuff, and I realized that I was not prepared in terms of the style and the length of some of the notes and the nuances that it demanded. I resolved to figure it out. It wasn't until another five or six years went by that I felt that I had a basic comfort with the style that Schubert was expecting of me. Here are some tips: Get an orchestral score from your music library, now, today, don't put it off. Buy a CD and listen to it so many times that your roommates will think you are going to sing it on Starsearch. Study the score with the CD. Look at who you are playing with (at different times the low strings, the trombones, the woodwinds, etc). Look at your dynamics relative to others'. Don't just go to the library and listen to it once and figure you've got it licked. Arrange to play through it with your section mates a couple times before the first rehearsal (if you do that, yours will be the only fully prepared section in the orchestra, I can guarantee you). If not before the rehearsals start, have sectionals during the rehearsal period. Listen to some of Schubert's other works, such as the C Major Symphony (subtitled The Great) to hear more of the style. If there is a more experienced orchestral bass trombonist in your area, talk to him about the piece, see if he'll play some of it for you so you can get it in your ear. Go through the score and your part, and mark on your part what member of the chord your note is, then adjust your intonation accordingly (generally speaking pull major thirds down a bit, minor thirds up a bit, make sure 5ths are not flat, and lower 7ths a bit, and center the root like an oak tree on your tuner). If in rehearsal you have a hard time getting the length and character of the staccato notes with the lower strings to sound proper, look at the bows of the lower string players and try to let that help you figure out how long they are playing and with what type of note shape. Staccatos in Schubert and Brahms are very different than in most other things that you have probably played up to this point. If I had a nickle for every time my teachers talked about a "Brahmsian staccato" I'd be Donald Trump--it's a fine point but a very important one. The notes themselves are not very difficult, so don't start practicing them on the trombone until you have done several of these preparatory steps. Your software won't be ready yet. But do start working generally on a pleasing, glowing sound in conservative F and soft PP dynamics. Scott mentioned the little soft chorale at the end, with the woodwinds, in which you have the bass line (starts and ends on middle Ab). When going from the last Eb to the last Ab, don't worry if you might have to softly tongue this to get it smooth. If your lips and your horn have a nice PP slur on those notes, go for it, but don't worry if you don't. Just work on tonguing it softly, or Doug Yeo had a very cool idea: play the last Ab on the F valve in 2nd position (it will be a flat second position) and you can use the valve as a slurring device. You'd have to work on that to get the intonation stable, though. Well, you are probably saying: man, if I did all that just for this little piece it would be overkill! Well, you would be right. But remember: overkill in preparation is rarely a bad thing. And, you are in this music thing for the long haul, may as well lay down a road of stone for yourself and not just wing it, eh? Have a good time, and the next time you see Schubert he'll say "oh, you're that guy who plays my Unfinished Symphony so nicely." Randy Campora Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:58:42 -0700 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: schubert's unfinished Scott! Don't give away the secrets! Gee, let him find out about it the same way we did ... Dennis Now that the cat's out of the bag, that slur is 3rd space Eb to fifth line Ab. It worked better for me to take the Ab in V2. If I ever play it again, I'll probably play it on the finger valve. The added resistance helps the diminuendo. > Practice calm, quiet slurs from Eb to Ab with a diminuendo. Some guys > freak out there at the end. > > Probably needs to be sharp too, since there's clarinets involved. > > DSM > > On Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 04:45 PM, Simon Bailey wrote: > > > hi all, > > > > i'll probably be playing 3rd trombone in schubert's unfinished symphony > > with the uni-orchestra this semester, and wanted to ask if there's > > anything interesting in there (i won't be getting the parts for another > > few weeks)? > > > > regards, > > simon. > > > > > D. Scott Moore, Bass Trombone > Music Department > Gustavus Adolphus College > phone: 507-933-6260 > email: down8ve@hickorytech.net > http://www.gustavus.edu/~smoore ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:07:26 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Fwd: Re: [TBN-L] Advice on replacing a stolen trombone >Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but sabutin > > > > > I might add, most of the above goes for the .525/.547 designs of > > those various makers as well. None from King or Bach,I don't > > think...maybe Yamaha...but Edwards + Shires for sure. Probably Rath > > too. > > > > > > Later... > > > > S. > >Sam, et al... > >Yamaha isn't making a 525/547 horn or slide, although I keep mentioning it >to them. Steve Turre's horn has those bore sizes, but his slide was made at >Dillon's, and is not a stock item IIRC. > >Yamaha DOES make a German style dual bore horn, the YSL 603, and that has a >removable F attachment. Bore .512" - .535" dual bore. >Bell 8-4/5" gold brass. > >I haven't played one of those, but I have tried the German Bass (YBL 605?), >and that was a sweet horn! > >Walter Barrett ==================== I've tried the .512/.535...it has a wonderful blow and feel but did not project very well, in my opinion. I A/B tested it against a far wall w/my Shires .525 at MF and above, and there was no comparison. Like many medium and smaller Bachs, the sound just didn't reach the wall. Pretty, though... S. > >"I've always known that the trombone could be played different, that >somebody'd catch on one of these days. Man, you're elected." > -Dizzy Gillespie, to JJ Johnson > > >Yamaha Artist/Clinician >Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones >Euphonium >Bass Trumpet >Tuba (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:26:25 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone YES!!! Depending on the size of the orchestra, and also the literature being performed, I have felt for years that the Bach 36 is still a very good principal trombone. It's not better than a 42 or a Conn 88H, it is DIFFERENT. I have used it on Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain before, and what I found was that I didn't have to play as loudly to be heard. What an interesting concept. More sound with less effort. BTW, it is also a very good tenor trombone when you need to blend between an alto and a bass, too. Much better than a 42. I have heard from a few people that I really respect that in the modern orchestra, the medium bore trombone really doesn't have a place. I strongly disagree. In my opinion, here it is what has happened. Everyone who plays tenor trombone in the larger orchestras plays the.547 bore instrument as their primary instrument. The mouthpiece that it is considered by-in-large to be the standard for the .547 instrument is something in the range of a 5G. That's not 100% consistent, but that's quite true. In the larger orchestras, with larger string sections, this works quite well. However, in the smaller orchestras, with smaller string sections, I think that is quite a questionable philosophy. Yes, it is about getting a true characteristic trombone sound, but it is also about blend and balance too. On many works, the idea of a .525, .547, and .562 would solve many problems in terms of balance and blend. The .547 is capable of producing an enormous amount of sound, and if you bring that concept over to the .525, it will be unfavorable, to say the least. The .525 requires a slightly smaller mouthpiece, but that's OK when you're playing principal. I haven't tried a 5GS with a small shank on a .525, but that might work very well. The 6 1/2 AL works great. I know, what do we use here in Chattanooga? Well, our principal player WILL NOT play on a smaller bore instrument unless it is a Bach 16 for big band work (which we do once a year in the orchestra) or unless he's playing alto trombone. He doesn't even own a .525 instrument. He disagrees with me on this one. So, I play ball on the team if I want a job. I'm still entitled to my opinion. Earlier this year, we tried doing Magic Flute with an alto, Bach 16 and an Edwards .547 on bass. I was not secure enough on the 16 to deal with the intonation problems, so I played the gig on my .547. It literally saved the day, and the performance. The conductor didn't even know the difference.He just knows that it was well played. I am getting a Bach 36 very soon to have for the situations that our principal uses alto trombone, as well as the big band job we do each February. The whole idea of what we're dealing here is getting the right sound, and using the right instrument in order to get that sound. That is absolutely fundamental to producing great music. I think the idea of the dual bore .525/.547 has some very real merits, particularly for principal players, perhaps even 2nd players, in the right situation. And when it comes right down to it, all of the equipment that we have in order to make the music sound right is a fraction of the price of what a good stringed instrument costs. For what my wife paid for her viola, I could have flown to Steve Shire's shop in a Lear Jet, thrown a major party, paid cash for 3 horns, and flown back. (A slight exaggeration.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Buckley" To: Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Advice on replacing a stolen trombone > I agree with Jim about the Bach 36. I have one and often use it for orchestra > instead of my 88h although to be honest, my preference is to use the 88h > whenever possible, maybe varying my Doug Elliot setup for subtle changes. Jay > Castello, principal with Kihtcener Waterloo uses his Bach 36 whenever possible, > often instead of an alto.I haven't played the Yamaha but have played beside > Steve Butterworth, Yamaha Canada rep when he has used it and it sounds very > good. Both are better orchestra horns than the 3B and good for all purpose > stuff. BTW Jim, I think the Bach 36 is also 525 bore. > > Dave. > > Jim Gayfer wrote: > > > Sorry to hear about your horn. It depends a lot on the type of playing > > you're going to be doing most. If you're going to be playing any classical > > and you only want to buy one horn, I would suggest that you go with the Bach > > 36 or Yamaha 683G (684G if you want a valve) as a good compromise horn. The > > Bach I believe is a .520 bore and the Yamaha is .525 -- about halfway (well, > > not quite) between an 88H and a 3B. They both work well in big band or > > small group situations as well. > > > > Prince George!! I used to go up there when I was with the RCMP Band in > > another lifetime. Is Mr. PG still standing? > > > > Jim Gayfer > > Trombone/baritone > > NorthWinds Brass Quintet > > Ottawa, ON > > (613) 523-4285 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Slaven [mailto:robertslaven@SHAW.CA] > > Sent: January 16, 2003 3:03 PM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > Subject: [TBN-L] Advice on replacing a stolen trombone > > > > Greetings. I spent some time on the list a few years ago, but raising my > > little brood has kept me away. Anyhow, I have a situation here where I'm > > hoping you learned fellow bonists can help me out. > > > > We got broken into in November. Along with my wife's jewellery, our camera, > > and my electric bass (just a Squier, no biggie), my battered-but-beloved > > 1976 > > King 4B was taken. > > > > I got that horn in Grade 10, and hauled it all around the Arctic on various > > and sundry band trips. (Ever been to Tuktoyaktuk? Four times?!) Concert > > band, wind ensemble, stage band, bit of orchestra, I did everything with it. > > I played a bit in university, but then being a starving student and having a > > young family meant I didn't play much in the 1980's. In the 90's I got back > > into it, mostly playing lead in stage bands and musicals. At the time, > > pushing all that air for all those hours through that big bone made me think > > about buying a good used 2B or 6H or some such. > > > > Anyhow, I suppose the insurance company will be cutting me a cheque for > > around > > C$2500-3000, since I gather that's what a new 4B-with-F-attachment would > > cost > > me nowadays. But is that necessarily the way to go? I'm sort of looking at > > five possibilities here: > > > > 1) Buy another 4B (or equivalent, e.g. 88H). But I find it really tiring to > > push a lot of air through that horn if I continue to do lots of lead > > jazz/musical work. Mind you, I'm no longer in my small hometown > > (Yellowknife > > NT), but am now in a less-small town (Prince George BC) where there are > > enough > > good players that I'd probably do more middle-part work. > > > > 2) Buy a 2B (or equivalent, e.g. 100H). That'd be lots of fun for lead > > work; > > but what if I don't get much lead work here? And would it be too bright > > even > > for 1st parts in a small orchestra, say? > > > > 3) Compromise with a 3B, or maybe a Bach 36. (I've gotta confess, that > > two-bell 3B that Sabutin has on his Trombone Store site looks awfully > > tempting!!) Full enough for a good orchestral sound, but small enough to be > > a > > nice 'efficient' horn for the lead/jazz/musical possibilities. But are > > these > > horns the best of both worlds, or the worst of both worlds? > > > > 4) Buy two used horns, a 2B/.500-ish horn and a 4B/.547 horn. I suspect I > > could get such from Dillon's or somewhere for about the price of a new 4B. > > But I don't have a lot of options in the area if it needs any work, so I'd > > have to be *really* sure the horn was in good shape. > > > > 5) Sniffing around, I found that Jupiter has some decent-looking trombones > > for > > about the same price (new) as good used King/Conn/Bach trombones. I've > > never > > played a Jupiter bone, but I played a Jupiter double French horn (yes, I'm a > > masochist) for a year, and it struck me as a pretty decent instrument; > > well-made, played well, sounded pretty good. Blessing strikes me as being > > in > > the same league, although I have zero experience with that brand. For > > someone > > like me -- a decent amateur who plays occasionally but not constantly -- > > would > > dropping down to one of these brands be 'a good buy' or 'sacrificing too > > much > > quality'? > > > > Finally, if any of you are in BC or Alberta or Washington State, I'd > > appreciate any recommendations for stores where I could go (e.g. in > > Edmonton, > > Calgary, Vancouver, or Seattle) for a decent selection of new and used horns > > to try out for myself. I can't see anyone wanting to ship X horns all the > > way > > up here, and I suspect the local music store is more used to the > > Yamaha-354/King-606 line of things for the schools. > > > > (And yes, there are a couple of local pros I'm going to ask for advice, too; > > but I figure you can never have too much information on something like > > this.) > > > > Thanks, everyone. It's good to be back. > > > > Robert > > -- > > Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca > > ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too > > You see, it's just that his brain is so tiny that the slightest > > movement can dislodge it. - Monty Python's Flying Circus > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:53:08 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Re: schubert's unfinished Randy wrote: "Scott mentioned the little soft chorale at the end, with the woodwinds, in which you have the bass line (starts and ends on middle Ab). When going from the last Eb to the last Ab, don't worry if you might have to softly tongue this to get it smooth. If your lips and your horn have a nice PP slur on those notes, go for it, but don't worry if you don't. Just work on tonguing it softly, or Doug Yeo had a very cool idea: play the last Ab on the F valve in 2nd position (it will be a flat second position) and you can use the valve as a slurring device. You'd have to work on that to get the intonation stable, though." Also try the F and Eb with the valve and play the Ab's open. That works better for me because I can get a better tone on the lower notes with the valve than I can on the higher. And it comes out really soft and smooth. But, of course, do whatever works. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 520-792-9155 x118 520-792-9314 fax 520-991-7056 cel -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Randy Campora Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 8:43 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] schubert's unfinished Simon- Welcome to the world of orchestral music! This was the first piece I ever played with a symphony orchestra, in my Freshman year at Florida State. I recall that it was very difficult for me to figure out exactly how I should play this stuff, and I realized that I was not prepared in terms of the style and the length of some of the notes and the nuances that it demanded. I resolved to figure it out. It wasn't until another five or six years went by that I felt that I had a basic comfort with the style that Schubert was expecting of me. Here are some tips: Get an orchestral score from your music library, now, today, don't put it off. Buy a CD and listen to it so many times that your roommates will think you are going to sing it on Starsearch. Study the score with the CD. Look at who you are playing with (at different times the low strings, the trombones, the woodwinds, etc). Look at your dynamics relative to others'. Don't just go to the library and listen to it once and figure you've got it licked. Arrange to play through it with your section mates a couple times before the first rehearsal (if you do that, yours will be the only fully prepared section in the orchestra, I can guarantee you). If not before the rehearsals start, have sectionals during the rehearsal period. Listen to some of Schubert's other works, such as the C Major Symphony (subtitled The Great) to hear more of the style. If there is a more experienced orchestral bass trombonist in your area, talk to him about the piece, see if he'll play some of it for you so you can get it in your ear. Go through the score and your part, and mark on your part what member of the chord your note is, then adjust your intonation accordingly (generally speaking pull major thirds down a bit, minor thirds up a bit, make sure 5ths are not flat, and lower 7ths a bit, and center the root like an oak tree on your tuner). If in rehearsal you have a hard time getting the length and character of the staccato notes with the lower strings to sound proper, look at the bows of the lower string players and try to let that help you figure out how long they are playing and with what type of note shape. Staccatos in Schubert and Brahms are very different than in most other things that you have probably played up to this point. If I had a nickle for every time my teachers talked about a "Brahmsian staccato" I'd be Donald Trump--it's a fine point but a very important one. The notes themselves are not very difficult, so don't start practicing them on the trombone until you have done several of these preparatory steps. Your software won't be ready yet. But do start working generally on a pleasing, glowing sound in conservative F and soft PP dynamics. Scott mentioned the little soft chorale at the end, with the woodwinds, in which you have the bass line (starts and ends on middle Ab). When going from the last Eb to the last Ab, don't worry if you might have to softly tongue this to get it smooth. If your lips and your horn have a nice PP slur on those notes, go for it, but don't worry if you don't. Just work on tonguing it softly, or Doug Yeo had a very cool idea: play the last Ab on the F valve in 2nd position (it will be a flat second position) and you can use the valve as a slurring device. You'd have to work on that to get the intonation stable, though. Well, you are probably saying: man, if I did all that just for this little piece it would be overkill! Well, you would be right. But remember: overkill in preparation is rarely a bad thing. And, you are in this music thing for the long haul, may as well lay down a road of stone for yourself and not just wing it, eh? Have a good time, and the next time you see Schubert he'll say "oh, you're that guy who plays my Unfinished Symphony so nicely." Randy Campora Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:31:51 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Jolly Ball A while ago somebody on the list showed us how to make a plunger mute for bass trombone from a Jolly Ball. They had a website illustrating this. I wonder if the site is still online and, if so, what's the URL? ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:39:42 -0500 From: "Amoury, Gerard SFC TUSAB" Subject: The U.S. Army Band Trombone Audition Announcement <<...OLE_Obj...>> The United States Army Band "Pershing's Own" COL Gary F. Lamb, Leader and Commander SGM Jack R. Tilbury, Enlisted Leader Announces an opening for Tenor Trombone The United States Army Band (Pershing's Own) announces an immediate opening for trombone with The U.S. Army Ceremonial Band, the premier ceremonial ensemble of the Army. The U. S. Army Band attracts graduates from the finest music institutions in the nation. Duties include performances at the White House, the U. S. Capitol and Arlington National Cemetery. The band regularly participates in nationally televised events including Presidential Inaugural parades, visits by international heads of state and wreath ceremonies at the Tomb of the Unknowns. Applicants will be expected to meet all standards required for enlistment in the Armed Forces to include a physical examination. Maximum age is 34. An extensive background investigation will be conducted on the accepted candidate to ensure suitability for White House support duties. Please submit a resume, audio recording and full-length photograph. Recording should include examples in a variety of musical styles. Take care to properly label your tape. Please include name, address, telephone number and e-mail address. Send materials postmarked no later than March 28th, 2003 to: Commander The United States Army Band ATTN: Auditions-Trombone 204 Lee Avenue Fort Myer, VA 22211-1199 (703) 696-3643 FAX (703) 696-3904 http://www.army.mil/armyband In addition to a rewarding musical experience, members enjoy a full range of military benefits to include medical and dental care, 30 days paid vacation per year, permanent duty assignment to The U.S. Army Band and educational benefits such as the College Loan Repayment Program which can help pay off existing college loans up to $65,000. Current annual salary level for Staff Sgt. is $37,900-$43,900. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:08:47 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Jolly Ball At 06:31 PM 1/17/2003 +0000, Keith Marr wrote: >A while ago somebody on the list showed us how to make a plunger mute for >bass trombone from a Jolly Ball. They had a website illustrating this. I >wonder if the site is still online and, if so, what's the URL? That would be me. See http://acticalc.com/music/JBall.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:30:00 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone Robert, if you are really getting a check for something like $2500, why not get two trombones instead of one compromise? I guess if that is $2500 Canadian, you may have to do some serious shopping to make this work, but it isn't out of the question. You should be able to get a 3B or comparable horn used in good condition for $600US or less. You should be able to find a Bach 42B or 88H un good used condition for $1000US. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:43:13 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: the latest Shires valves Greetings all. Gabe Langfur and I paid a visit to Steve Shires' factory yesterday and I got Steve's very first set of dependent bass trombone valves based on his new design. Some of you may or may not know, but Steve now builds his own axial-flow valves and his own rotary valves. Here are links to some photos: Www.dalecruse.com/valvefront.jpg Www.dalecruse.com/valveside.jpg Www.dalecruse.com/valveback.jpg You may notice that the two valves are physically very close to each other. We have found this makes a difference and really enables both valves (and especially the D side) to articulate very cleanly and with immediacy. No blips, no blops. The valve itself has been redesigned and blows freer and with a shorter linkage than the previous rotary valve design he was using. As I said, this is the very first set of these but more are being made and will start to be available for other players soon. In the meantime, if you have any questions, comments, or concerns about these babies, just contact me. :-) ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:40:39 -0800 From: Jim O'Briant Subject: FS: 1960's King 3-B Silversonic w/ F Attachment I sent this message to the Trombone-L List last Monday, but I think it got lost in cyberspace and never appeared. So here it is again. The only change is that I've extended the date for responses from the list for an extra week. -- Jim O'Briant -----Original Message----- The time has come to sell off some instruments that I'm no longer using. I mostly play tuba, and when I play trombone now I almost always use my Williams-Wallace F-Attachment Trombone from the '30's. So, my other "best" trombone is now for sale. If it doesn't sell here on Trombone-L, I'll list it on eBay at a slightly higher price to allow for eBay fees. But I want list subscribers to have first crack at it. King 3-B Trombone "Silversonic" Model (solid sterling silver bell with gold wash inside the bell) With F Attachment Serial Number 449xxx According to the Serial Number Lists at www.musictrader.com, this would place the date of manufacture between 1965 and 1969 Condition: Near-new condition (almost "mint") There's a little bit of lacquer wear at one end of the slide handgrip There's also a little bit of lacquer wear between the rotary valve and the tuning slide -- where the tubing rests against your neck I can find no dents or dings Slide is near-perfect, no visible wear on inner or outer slides Mouthpiece: Not included. Takes a standard-shank mouthpiece Accessories: The marching lyre, if there ever was one, is missing. (I don't remember whether there was or not, but there's a place for it in the case.) The original cleaning rod is included. Case: The standard late-60's King "Coffin" Case Exterior: Black with Black Leather Trim. The main carrying handle has been replaced. The other handle (on one end of the case) is splitting and will need to be replaced. Cosmetically, the exterior shows its age, with a number of bumps, scrapes, etc. Structurally, it's as sound as when it was new. Interior: Lined with green velvet, showing little or no wear. One of the two plastic straps with which you snap the slide into its storage location has broken. Most of the strap is intact, and it snaps just fine -- but it broke off just beyond the snap, so it's a little bit difficult to un-snap the strap when taking the instrument out of the case. History of this trombone: It's a one-owner horn. The trombone was ordered from King (back when King still King, and hadn't been bought out by anyone) by Stan Stone Music of Rock Island, IL, some time between about 1967 and 1970. It sat on their shelves until 1976, when the store closed. It was then purchased by Northwest Music Shop of Davenport, IA, along with much of the rest of the Stan Stone inventory and fixtures. I bought it from Northwest Music Shop in January of 1977, and I've had it ever since. I'm primarily a Tuba player, so the instrument has spent most of its life in its case. I've played it from time to time in community bands, community orchestras, and very seldom otherwise. Due to the difficulties and costs of international shipping, this instrument is for sale only to buyers in the USA. Price: Best offer over $1,700.00 received via e-mail to [ jobriant@garlic.com ] by 12:00 Noon Pacific Time, Sunday, January 26, 2003. Price does not include shipping or insurance. Payment: Payment accepted in US dollars, via PayPal, Certified Check, US Postal Money Orders (it will take more than one due to their maximum dollar amount of $700). No money orders other than US Postal Money Orders will be accepted. PayPal payments subject to a $50 surcharge due to PayPal fees. Packing: I will pay the cost of packing. I've bought and sold enough instruments to know how to pack them, with styrofoam and/or bubble wrap both inside and outside the case, to prevent dents and other damage. I'll pack it as if I were the buyer. Shipping: I can ship the instrument via FedEx or UPS, air or ground service. Buyer chooses shipping method and pays actual cost of shipping from ZIP code 95138 (San Jose, CA). Insurance is optional but recommended. I will ship the instrument within two business days of receipt of payment. Thank you in advance for your interest and your offers. Please give my trombone a good home! -- Jim O'Briant Bayside Music Press Gilroy, CA www.baysidemusicpress.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:24:25 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" Subject: Re: Calvert Well, I got tired of trying to read the blotchy part and rewrote it on Finale in bass clef. Not pretty , but effective. If anyone wants the file in Finale, let me know. As is, no promises I got every note correct, but then I have played it a dozen times and no one in the group complained. :-). Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Harlan Feinstein [mailto:harlan@FEINSTEINS.NET] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 6:12 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Calvert Jim> Intimate and regionally descriptive, Monteregian Hills is a Jim> classic. I have no doubt it will be rediscovered over and over Jim> again over the next decades. [...] I love the piece too; just to play devil's advocate, though, here's a criticism of the piece. How about those blotchy handwritten parts? Isn't that the hardest-to-read piece of music? Every time we have to refer to a rehearsal letter, we literally have to guess what the letter is. Couldn't the company re-issue the parts, nicely done up in Finale or in neat handwriting? --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:32:55 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Preparing for auditions Hi All, For a few years, I've been giving a little presentation to what is sort of a music survival skills class at the U of A. Having been on both sides of the screen many times and also run auditions for several years as personnel manager here, the prof. thinks I have something important to contribute. Anyway, I thought it might be interesting to share with this class some wisdom from Trombone-L. Anybody who has some thoughts on preparing for auditions, please feel free to send them to me. I'm sure the students will appreciate it. Many thanks. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 520-792-9155 x118 520-792-9314 fax 520-991-7056 cel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:01:29 -0800 From: Daryl Burch Subject: Re: Jolly Ball Craig, THAT is great documentation! And an even better idea! I was getting kinda tired of the looks I get from the sales persons at the local Home Depot every time I pick up a plunger and they wonder why I don't want the stick.... Thanks for posting! Daryl Burch www.radionoise.com At 03:08 PM 1/17/2003 -0500, Craig Parmerlee wrote: >At 06:31 PM 1/17/2003 +0000, Keith Marr wrote: >>A while ago somebody on the list showed us how to make a plunger mute for >>bass trombone from a Jolly Ball. They had a website illustrating this. I >>wonder if the site is still online and, if so, what's the URL? > >That would be me. See http://acticalc.com/music/JBall.html ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 16 Jan 2003 to 17 Jan 2003 (#2003-17) ****************************************************************