Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 15 Jan 2003 to 16 Jan 2003 (#2003-16) Date: Friday, January 17, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 45 messages totalling 2785 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Calvert (4) 2. Suggestion 3. All-American Youth Orchestra (1940 and 1941) (fwd) (2) 4. oral cavity questions (5) 5. Messy Grondahl Orchestra Parts 6. Horns for sale, my website, etc. (2) 7. The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! (7) 8. webpage update 9. The "Skatch" Anderssen Orchestra returns!!! (Long post) 10. Colorado Springs Symphony - Chapter 11 situation 11. Mind-boggling thoughts on oral cavity questions 12. Parts for Benge 190C (2) 13. Collapsed lung and trombone playing (2) 14. Advice on replacing a stolen trombone (4) 15. Carl 16. Edwards stuff for sale... 17. "CD Settlement" by music industry - check it out (2) 18. [Fwd: [TBN-L] "CD Settlement" by music industry - check it out] 19. schubert's unfinished (2) 20. LATEX TRBN QT. SHORT CONCERT TOUR OK/KS 21. John Fedchock Clinic/Concert (2) 22. Calvert - One Liner ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:00:19 -0800 From: jimandcat@JUNO.COM Subject: Calvert Not much to add here, just want to say that when my brass quintet used to do regular mall concerts here in San Diego (Horton Plaza, Fashion Valley, Mission Valley--2 to 10 a month) we always played Monteregian Hills. I have probably performed it 100 times. Excellent piece, excellent scoring, excellent emotion in the music. The audience and the performers always enjoyed it. Not an easy piece though, takes really good players on every part. And a lot of balancing of dynamics, and an understanding of which part to bring out when. I miss playing that piece. As we got more successful individually, and the malls stopped hiring Union players (they are using school and amatuer players, and no one stops to sit and listen like they used to, the malls now have musical potted plants ornamenting their hallways), we got more commercially oriented (weddings and private parties). The other quintets in this area that do concerts seem to focus on a "theme". Wonderful pieces like Calvert's do not fit most of the "themes" (Music of the Renaissance, Music of the Californias, French music for brass, etc.) Intimate and regionally descriptive, Monteregian Hills is a classic. I have no doubt it will be rediscovered over and over again over the next decades. It is one of the best examples of what chamber music is supposed to be--personal statements of music by small ensembles. Jim Prindle San Diego ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:18:38 -0800 From: jimandcat@JUNO.COM Subject: Suggestion I don't mean to cause a problem. But sometimes I get confused as to who is sending what. I don't think it needs to an official rule, but as a courtesy, could listers conclude their posts with their name (or pseudonym) and where they are posting from. I see a lot of the same e-mail addresses, but often cannot immediately connect the person or where they live from the simple e-mail address. I know many of you have posted so many times that you assume everyone knows who you are, but in reality, there are lots of us who do not have a clue who is making the point you are making. Sorry for the fussiness. Jim Prindle San Diego, CA ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:33:03 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: All-American Youth Orchestra (1940 and 1941) (fwd) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" > The tuba player was Phil Silverman (aka Phil Cadway). Not Sergeant Bilko? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:00:44 +0100 From: Howard Weiner Subject: Re: All-American Youth Orchestra (1940 and 1941) (fwd) At 18:00 15.01.03 -0500, Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science wrote: >Identification from someone formerly with the Philadelphia Orchestra: > >The '40 orchestra was loaded with principals from the Philadelphia >Orchestra, for instance, Saul Caston, trumpet. Charley Gusikoff, trombone >and others. The tuba player was Phil Silverman (aka Phil Cadway). [NB: >Cadway also played in the National Symphony before Abe Torchinsky] > >Arnold Jacobs was in the '41 group, as was Bob Lambert. If he could >enlarge the pictures, he said, he would really be able to give me a >run-down on all the "over aged" people in '40 group posing as young >people. In his book "Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind," Brian Frederiksen gives the following roster of the brass players in the 1941 All-American Youth Orchestra: Principal Horn -- Edward Murphy Asst. Prin. Horn -- Americus Tomei Horn 2 -- James Chambers Horn 3 -- Helen Kotas Horn 4 -- Hilbert Moses Trumpet 1 -- Saul Caston Trumpet 2 -- John Clyman Trumpet 3 -- Lloyd Geisler Trombone 1 -- Charles Gusikoff Trombone 2 -- Robert Marsteller Trombone 3 -- Howard Cole Tuba -- Arnold Jacobs Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:12:25 -0500 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: Calvert Jim> Intimate and regionally descriptive, Monteregian Hills is a Jim> classic. I have no doubt it will be rediscovered over and over Jim> again over the next decades. [...] I love the piece too; just to play devil's advocate, though, here's a criticism of the piece. How about those blotchy handwritten parts? Isn't that the hardest-to-read piece of music? Every time we have to refer to a rehearsal letter, we literally have to guess what the letter is. Couldn't the company re-issue the parts, nicely done up in Finale or in neat handwriting? --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:41:15 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Subject: Re: oral cavity questions Craig asks (I'm paraphrasing) why get complicated, just assume the lips don't close and pre-lips vibrations pass through? Answer: The lips do close, high speed photography proves it beyond any doubt. That doesn't eliminate pre-lips vibration from passing through, witness multiphonics, but I look for the effects on the main vibration source. Besides, if you think you have prelips vibrations contributing to the timbre, you have to explain how those vibrations are generated. Here's the real problem with looking for the effects, and it applies to a lot more influences than just oral cavity, and it has no convincing answer. Overtone series are unique to each note. Timbre consists of the relative strengths of the overtones. Any change that affects more than one note in the same method is somehow changing more than one overtone series. How can an element that is basically fixed and has one set of characteristic frequencies possibly do this? If the oral cavity has a volume and/or length it has a characteristic frequency or frequencies, and hence can act as a filter or amplifier at those frequencies. But we would expect those frequencies to be within the overtone series of some notes and not others, and the effect on timbre should be in one direction for some notes, opposite for others, and meaningless for others. It only makes sense if the effect is directly on the primary vibration generating mechanism, the lips. And even there it's a bit of a stretch. Unless you chop an entire range of frequencies, maybe, like in a mute. But mutes are pretty well explainable in terms of the filter analogy, I'm not seeing that for the oral cavity yet. Mouthpieces, same thing, fairly decent understanding of how they work for more than one note. This "note unique overtone series" objection is general in nature and can be applied in some fashion to many of the things we argue about, including choice of alloy and lacquer thickness, and really demands an answer in each case. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:07:33 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Re: Messy Grondahl Orchestra Parts Hi Andy, Unfortunately, the situation you describe is not unusual in the music rental business. They have a monopoly and...I'll spare you the tirade. But your circumstance does sound worse than average. Typically, if your complaint is diplomatic, most rental houses will send you cleaner parts if you ask. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 520-792-9155 x118 520-792-9314 fax 520-991-7056 cel -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Andrew Michael Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:59 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Messy Grondahl Orchestra Parts Hello all, Tonight I had my first rehearsal of the Grondahl with the orchestra. It went quite well (phew!), but that's not my question. The parts we rented from Peters are a bit of a mess. Actually, the piano part is really a mess. The original parts were heavily marked and what we got are photocopies so the markings are really now part of the parts! The pianist is a bit dismayed. As she said, I know what key I'm in but apparently this person didn't! It's actually a bit hard for her to find the notes! I also enjoyed the tempo marking on the first Rondo in movement III in the score. It was marked at 92! Geez, even Alessi's recording only goes about 84 and its only supposed to go 80. I assume there are other people on the list that have played this with orchestra. So, my question is: are these parts typical? If we complain to Peters might they send us a cleaner piano part (I think it is the worst). But, if they all look like this then I imagine this is just the way it is. Despite the parts, the orchestra really likes the piece and I got numerous thanks for choosing it because they are enjoying playing it. Cheers, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:15:15 -0700 From: Steve Gamble Subject: Re: Calvert When we play that piece here, there is a long running joke during rehearsal: "Could we take it from blob?" or "What's your note two after blob?" too subtle for some, I'm sure. It gets funny after about the 50th time. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 520-792-9155 x118 520-792-9314 fax 520-991-7056 cel -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Harlan Feinstein Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 5:12 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Calvert Jim> Intimate and regionally descriptive, Monteregian Hills is a Jim> classic. I have no doubt it will be rediscovered over and over Jim> again over the next decades. [...] I love the piece too; just to play devil's advocate, though, here's a criticism of the piece. How about those blotchy handwritten parts? Isn't that the hardest-to-read piece of music? Every time we have to refer to a rehearsal letter, we literally have to guess what the letter is. Couldn't the company re-issue the parts, nicely done up in Finale or in neat handwriting? --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:14:36 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: oral cavity questions At 08:41 AM 1/16/2003 -0500, richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: >Answer: The lips do close, high speed photography proves it beyond any >doubt. That doesn't eliminate pre-lips vibration from passing through, >witness multiphonics, but I look for the effects on the main vibration >source. Besides, if you think you have prelips vibrations contributing to >the timbre, you have to explain how those vibrations are generated. Whack! (The sound of a softball leaving the yard.) The obvious answer is that some of the vibrations are produced by the lips. Why do you assume the sound waves produced at the lips can only go one direction? Clearly some of those vibrations could go into the mouth cavity. If they are in the mouth cavity, then some of that sound could in turn be reflected back through the lips after being conditioned by the shape of the mouth cavity. After all, you have already conceded that the lips allow through the vibrations from the larynx. Surely you aren't going to argue that the lips are smart enough to permit the larynx vibrations but block any other vibrations. You are concentrating on the first order effects, and clearly they come from the lips directly. But timbre is a very subtle thing. Second order effects need not be very strong in order to impart a different sensation to the timbre. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:39:20 -0500 From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Subject: Re: Calvert On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Steve Gamble wrote: > When we play that piece here, there is a long running joke during > rehearsal: "Could we take it from blob?" or "What's your note two > after blob?" too subtle for some, I'm sure. It gets funny after about > the 50th time. I'm surprised there are still parts extant. I recall it as being in blue ink on some highly acidic paper...(but it's been 20+ years since I've played it). Carole Nowicke cnowicke@indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:00:06 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Horns for sale, my website, etc. Hi all... My websites are beginning to contain some interesting things, and I thought I'd mention them to you. I just posted a fairly thorough article about attacks and the tongue on It can be found under under "Articles" and then "Brass Techniques". (Maybe not yet...my webmaster will put it up w/in the next 24 hours, and I'll post a URL as soon as it appears. I also will soon have a section called "The Chop Clinic" where I will answer trombone related questions from people and also entertain differing opinions and discussions. Further, on I am offering several very nice horns, including a 1954 Conn 6H and a 1960 Silver Sonic 3B w/two bells...one straight and one w/an F attachment, plus a case that holds both bells + the slide. Come visit...they are growing by the day now. Later... S. -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:14:49 -0600 From: Erik Berggren Subject: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Being a Lutheran trombone player, I found this to be entertaining! = Sorry for the length, but I figure it makes up for all those times I = haven't posted to the List! =20 Erik Berggren - AAA (Always An Amateur) =20 The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra by Garrison Keillor To each person, God gives some talent such as comedy, just to name one, = or the ability to suffer, and to some persons God has given musical = talent, though not to as many as think so. So for a young Lutheran = considering an orchestral career, the first question to ask yourself is, = "Do I have a genuine God-given talent, or do I only seem talented = compared to other young Lutherans?" Because most Lutherans aren't = musicians, they're choir members. Mostly altos and basses. And they = can be sure that their gift is God-given, because who else but God would = be interested? Nobody goes into choir music for the wrong reasons. But = orchestra... do you know what you're getting into? You're getting into opera for one thing. Don Juan and Mephistopheles, = pagan goddesses screeching and being strangled and thrown off = balconies. And even if you stick to concert music, where are the = Christian composers? Modern ones are existentialists, the romantics = were secular humanists, the 18th century was all rationalists, and the = 17th were Italian except for Bach. And you can't make a living playing = Bach. In the Bible, we read about people singing and playing musical = instruments, including the harp, the last trump, the cymbal, the = psaltery. But in the Bible, music was in praise of the Lord, not for = amusement. We don't read that our Lord Himself ever played an instrument = or enjoyed hearing other people play theirs. The apostles did not attend = concerts. They weren't in the arts--maybe there's a reason for that. You = play in an orchestra, you're going to be devoting your life to music = that sort of swirls around in spiritual mystery. Searching for answers = that people could find in the Epistle to the Romans if somebody just = showed them where it is.=20 But if you're determined to play in an orchestra, then you ought to ask = yourself, "Which instrument is the best one for a Lutheran to play?" = Which instrument would our Lord have chosen, assuming He played an = instrument? And assuming He was Lutheran.=20 Probably not a French horn: the French horn takes too much of a person's = life. French horn players hardly have time to marry and have children. = The French horn is practically a religious belief all by itself. In = some orchestras, the horn players are required to be celibate--sometimes = by their wives. Because they think about the horn all the time anyway.=20 Should a Lutheran play the bassoon? Not if you want to be taken = seriously, I don't think so. The name kind of says it all: bassoon. It's = an instrument that isn't playing with a full deck of marbles. Maybe it's = something you'd do for a hobby ("Hey honey, let's go bassooning this = weekend!"), but not as your life's work. Some bassoonists filling out = applications for home loans just say "orthodontist." =20 Many Lutherans start out playing clarinets in marching band and think of = it as a pretty good instrument and kind of sociable. You pick up a = clarinet, and you feel like getting together with other people and = forming an "M." But the symphonic clarinet is different: clever, = sarcastic, kind of snooty. It's a nice small town instrument that went = to college and after that you can't get a simple answer out of them. It = is a French instrument, you know. Ever wonder why there are no French = Lutherans? Probably the wine wasn't good enough for them. =20 The oboe is the sensualist of the woodwind section, and if there is one = wind Lutherans should avoid, it's probably this one. In movie = soundtracks, you tend to hear the oboe when the woman is taking her = clothes off. Also a little later when she asks the man for a cigarette. = You start playing the oboe, you're going to have babies, take my word = for it.=20 The English horn sounds Christian, maybe because we think of it as the = Anglican horn, but it's so mournful, so plaintive. And so are English = horn players. They all have deep complicated problems. They're all down = in the dumps, especially at night, which is when most concerts are. = Maybe because they want what oboists have, I don't know. =20 The flute is the show-off of the wind section, the big shot: Jean-Pierre = Rampal, James Galway--both millionaires. (How many millionaire = bassoonists can you name real fast?) Well, that's fine. Everybody knows = it's the hardest, blowing across a tiny hole with your head tilted all = your life: it's like soloing on a pop bottle. The problem with the flute = is that it vibrates your brain, and you start wearing big white caftans = and smocks and eat roots and berries. You become a pantheist and sit in = meadows, and you believe that all is one and God is everything--God is a = column of air vibrating--and you know that's not right. The last member = of the woodwind family is the flakiest and that's the piccolo. It's = never in tune. Never has been, never will be. All you can play with it = is the blues. Which, being a Lutheran, we don't have anyway. =20 We come now to the string section. Strings are mentioned in scripture = and some young Christians are tempted to become string players. But you = want to be careful. =20 Bass, for example. A very deliberate instrument, the plow horse of the = orchestra: and bass players do tend to be more methodical, not so = spontaneous or witty or brilliant necessarily, but reliable. Which makes = the instrument appealing to German Lutherans. And yet bass notes do = have a certain texture and a tone, a darkness, a depth that--my gosh, = when you see those guys pick up their bows back there, doesn't it make = you think the same thing that I do? And if we do, just think what = they're thinking about.... =20 The cello section seems pleasant, and cellists seem like such nice = people. The way they put their arms around their instruments, they look = like parents at a day care center zipping up snowsuits. They seem like = us: comfortable, mid-range, able to see both sides of things. And yet, = there's something about the cello that's hard to put your fingers on. It = just doesn't seem right. Maybe, it's the way they hold the instrument = the way they do. Why can't they hold it across their laps? Or beside = themselves? I'm only asking. =20 The viola section is no place for a Lutheran and here you have to take = my word for it, because I know violists and they're okay until late at = night, they like to build a fire in a vacant lot and drink red wine and = roast a chicken on a clothes hanger and talk about going to Mexico = with somebody named Rita. Violists have this dark, moody, gypsy streak, = especially when they get older, and they realize that their instrument = for some reason cannot be heard beyond the stage. You think you hear the = violas, but it's really the second violins. =20 The first violin is a problem for a Christian because it's a solo = virtuoso instrument and we Christians are humble and decent people. The = first violins see the maestro look to them first, and most of them = believe that he secretly takes his cue from watching their bows go up = and down. =20 The maestro, who has a great nimbus of hair and is here on a temporary = work permit, is hypnotized by listening to the violins and forgets which = page he's on and looks to the violins to find out what's going on--this = is what most violinists believe in their hearts.=20 That if the maestro dropped dead, the orchestra would just follow the = violins while his little body was carried off into the wings, and nobody = in the audience would notice any difference except that now they would = have an unobstructed view of the violin section. Is this a place for a = Lutheran to be? Did our Lord say "Blessed are they who stand up in front = and take deep bows for they shall receive bigger fees?" No, He did not. = The second violin section is attractive to Lutherans because these = people are steady, supportive and helpful, but look who it is they = help--they help out the first violins. You want to play second fiddle = to that crowd? (No, I hope not.) One thing you may not know about = second violins is that the parts are so easy they never practice and = they wind up staying out late in singles bars on the freeway near the = airport and dancing with software salesmen. But I guess that's their = way. =20 Let's be clear about one thing about the brass section. The rest of the = orchestra wishes the brass were playing in another room. So does the = conductor. His back is toward you so that you can't see what he's saying = to them but what he's saying is, "Would you mind taking that thing = outside?"=20 The brass section is made up of men who were at one time in the = construction trades. They went into music because the hours are better = and there's less dust. They're heavy dudes and that's why composers = wrote so few notes for them. Because after they play, you can't hear for = a while. =20 The tuba player is normally a stocky, bearded guy whose hobby is = plumbing. The only member of the orchestra who bowls over 250 and gets = his deer every year and changes his own oil. In his locker downstairs, = he keeps a pair of lederhosen for free-lance jobs. Anyway, there's only = one tuba in the bunch and he's it.=20 The trombonist is a humorist, sort of the brother-in-law of the = orchestra. He carries a water spray gun to keep his slide moist and = often uses it against his neighbors. That's why they duck down back = there. He's nobody you'd ever want to see become artistic director; you = just hope he doesn't sit right behind you. =20 The trumpet is the brass instrument you imagine as Christian, thinking = of Gideon and Gabriel, and then you meet one in real life, and you = realize how driven these people are. They don't want to wear black tie; = they want to wear capes and swords and tassels; they want to play as = loud as they can and see mallards drop from the ceiling. Of the people = who've keeled over dead at orchestra concerts, most of them were killed = by a long trumpet passage. And most of them were glad to go. =20 There are two places in the orchestra for a Lutheran and one is the = percussion section. It's the most Christian instrument there is. = Percussionists are endlessly patient because they hardly ever get to = play. Pages and pages of music go by when the violins are sawing away = and the winds are tooting and the brass are blasting, and the = percussionist sits there and counts the bars like a hunter in the blind = waiting for a grouse to appear. A percussionist may have to wait for = twenty minutes just to play a few beats, but those beats have to be = exact, and they have to be passionate, climactic. All that the Epistles = of Paul say a Christian should be--faithful, waiting, trusting, filled = with fervor--are the qualities of the good percussionist. =20 The other Lutheran instrument, of course, is the harp. It's a good = instrument for any Christian because it keeps you humble and keeps you = at home. You can't run around with a harp. Having one is like living = with an elderly parent in very poor health: it's hard to get them in = and out of cars, and it's hard to keep them happy. It takes fourteen = hours to tune a harp, which remains in tune for about twenty minutes, or = until somebody opens the door. It's an instrument for a saint. If a = harpist could find a good percussionist, they wouldn't need anybody = else. They could settle down and make perfectly good music, just the two = of them.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:14:48 EST From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Horns for sale, my website, etc. In a message dated 16/01/03 15:18:18 GMT Standard Time, sabutin@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > Come visit...they are growing by the day now. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I made a visit last week and it's excellent! Every horn has a history and some context background with it. The site itself is damn fine and everything that I saw on it was at a very high standard. Sadly, I'm in London! Very best wishes and congratulations on a great web site. Best wishes, Steve C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:28:00 -0500 From: Jim Gayfer Subject: Re: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Thanks for that, Erik. I mentioned the Guide to a friend of mine recently who happened to have a recording of it and made me a copy. It's funny to read it but even better the way Garrison Keillor presents it. I love the part about mallards dropping from the ceiling. You should try and find a recording of it. If you're stuck, drop me an e-mail off-line and I'll burn you a copy of it. Jim Gayfer Trombone/baritone NorthWinds Brass Quintet Ottawa, ON (613) 523-4285 -----Original Message----- From: Erik Berggren [mailto:Erik.Berggren@OSBCKANSAS.ORG] Sent: January 16, 2003 11:15 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Being a Lutheran trombone player, I found this to be entertaining! Sorry for the length, but I figure it makes up for all those times I haven't posted to the List! Erik Berggren - AAA (Always An Amateur) The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra by Garrison Keillor To each person, God gives some talent such as comedy, just to name one, or the ability to suffer, and to some persons God has given musical talent, though not to as many as think so. So for a young Lutheran considering an orchestral career, the first question to ask yourself is, "Do I have a genuine God-given talent, or do I only seem talented compared to other young Lutherans?" Because most Lutherans aren't musicians, they're choir members. Mostly altos and basses. And they can be sure that their gift is God-given, because who else but God would be interested? Nobody goes into choir music for the wrong reasons. But orchestra... do you know what you're getting into? You're getting into opera for one thing. Don Juan and Mephistopheles, pagan goddesses screeching and being strangled and thrown off balconies. And even if you stick to concert music, where are the Christian composers? Modern ones are existentialists, the romantics were secular humanists, the 18th century was all rationalists, and the 17th were Italian except for Bach. And you can't make a living playing Bach. In the Bible, we read about people singing and playing musical instruments, including the harp, the last trump, the cymbal, the psaltery. But in the Bible, music was in praise of the Lord, not for amusement. We don't read that our Lord Himself ever played an instrument or enjoyed hearing other people play theirs. The apostles did not attend concerts. They weren't in the arts--maybe there's a reason for that. You play in an orchestra, you're going to be devoting your life to music that sort of swirls around in spiritual mystery. Searching for answers that people could find in the Epistle to the Romans if somebody just showed them where it is. But if you're determined to play in an orchestra, then you ought to ask yourself, "Which instrument is the best one for a Lutheran to play?" Which instrument would our Lord have chosen, assuming He played an instrument? And assuming He was Lutheran. Probably not a French horn: the French horn takes too much of a person's life. French horn players hardly have time to marry and have children. The French horn is practically a religious belief all by itself. In some orchestras, the horn players are required to be celibate--sometimes by their wives. Because they think about the horn all the time anyway. Should a Lutheran play the bassoon? Not if you want to be taken seriously, I don't think so. The name kind of says it all: bassoon. It's an instrument that isn't playing with a full deck of marbles. Maybe it's something you'd do for a hobby ("Hey honey, let's go bassooning this weekend!"), but not as your life's work. Some bassoonists filling out applications for home loans just say "orthodontist." Many Lutherans start out playing clarinets in marching band and think of it as a pretty good instrument and kind of sociable. You pick up a clarinet, and you feel like getting together with other people and forming an "M." But the symphonic clarinet is different: clever, sarcastic, kind of snooty. It's a nice small town instrument that went to college and after that you can't get a simple answer out of them. It is a French instrument, you know. Ever wonder why there are no French Lutherans? Probably the wine wasn't good enough for them. The oboe is the sensualist of the woodwind section, and if there is one wind Lutherans should avoid, it's probably this one. In movie soundtracks, you tend to hear the oboe when the woman is taking her clothes off. Also a little later when she asks the man for a cigarette. You start playing the oboe, you're going to have babies, take my word for it. The English horn sounds Christian, maybe because we think of it as the Anglican horn, but it's so mournful, so plaintive. And so are English horn players. They all have deep complicated problems. They're all down in the dumps, especially at night, which is when most concerts are. Maybe because they want what oboists have, I don't know. The flute is the show-off of the wind section, the big shot: Jean-Pierre Rampal, James Galway--both millionaires. (How many millionaire bassoonists can you name real fast?) Well, that's fine. Everybody knows it's the hardest, blowing across a tiny hole with your head tilted all your life: it's like soloing on a pop bottle. The problem with the flute is that it vibrates your brain, and you start wearing big white caftans and smocks and eat roots and berries. You become a pantheist and sit in meadows, and you believe that all is one and God is everything--God is a column of air vibrating--and you know that's not right. The last member of the woodwind family is the flakiest and that's the piccolo. It's never in tune. Never has been, never will be. All you can play with it is the blues. Which, being a Lutheran, we don't have anyway. We come now to the string section. Strings are mentioned in scripture and some young Christians are tempted to become string players. But you want to be careful. Bass, for example. A very deliberate instrument, the plow horse of the orchestra: and bass players do tend to be more methodical, not so spontaneous or witty or brilliant necessarily, but reliable. Which makes the instrument appealing to German Lutherans. And yet bass notes do have a certain texture and a tone, a darkness, a depth that--my gosh, when you see those guys pick up their bows back there, doesn't it make you think the same thing that I do? And if we do, just think what they're thinking about.... The cello section seems pleasant, and cellists seem like such nice people. The way they put their arms around their instruments, they look like parents at a day care center zipping up snowsuits. They seem like us: comfortable, mid-range, able to see both sides of things. And yet, there's something about the cello that's hard to put your fingers on. It just doesn't seem right. Maybe, it's the way they hold the instrument the way they do. Why can't they hold it across their laps? Or beside themselves? I'm only asking. The viola section is no place for a Lutheran and here you have to take my word for it, because I know violists and they're okay until late at night, they like to build a fire in a vacant lot and drink red wine and roast a chicken on a clothes hanger and talk about going to Mexico with somebody named Rita. Violists have this dark, moody, gypsy streak, especially when they get older, and they realize that their instrument for some reason cannot be heard beyond the stage. You think you hear the violas, but it's really the second violins. The first violin is a problem for a Christian because it's a solo virtuoso instrument and we Christians are humble and decent people. The first violins see the maestro look to them first, and most of them believe that he secretly takes his cue from watching their bows go up and down. The maestro, who has a great nimbus of hair and is here on a temporary work permit, is hypnotized by listening to the violins and forgets which page he's on and looks to the violins to find out what's going on--this is what most violinists believe in their hearts. That if the maestro dropped dead, the orchestra would just follow the violins while his little body was carried off into the wings, and nobody in the audience would notice any difference except that now they would have an unobstructed view of the violin section. Is this a place for a Lutheran to be? Did our Lord say "Blessed are they who stand up in front and take deep bows for they shall receive bigger fees?" No, He did not. The second violin section is attractive to Lutherans because these people are steady, supportive and helpful, but look who it is they help--they help out the first violins. You want to play second fiddle to that crowd? (No, I hope not.) One thing you may not know about second violins is that the parts are so easy they never practice and they wind up staying out late in singles bars on the freeway near the airport and dancing with software salesmen. But I guess that's their way. Let's be clear about one thing about the brass section. The rest of the orchestra wishes the brass were playing in another room. So does the conductor. His back is toward you so that you can't see what he's saying to them but what he's saying is, "Would you mind taking that thing outside?" The brass section is made up of men who were at one time in the construction trades. They went into music because the hours are better and there's less dust. They're heavy dudes and that's why composers wrote so few notes for them. Because after they play, you can't hear for a while. The tuba player is normally a stocky, bearded guy whose hobby is plumbing. The only member of the orchestra who bowls over 250 and gets his deer every year and changes his own oil. In his locker downstairs, he keeps a pair of lederhosen for free-lance jobs. Anyway, there's only one tuba in the bunch and he's it. The trombonist is a humorist, sort of the brother-in-law of the orchestra. He carries a water spray gun to keep his slide moist and often uses it against his neighbors. That's why they duck down back there. He's nobody you'd ever want to see become artistic director; you just hope he doesn't sit right behind you. The trumpet is the brass instrument you imagine as Christian, thinking of Gideon and Gabriel, and then you meet one in real life, and you realize how driven these people are. They don't want to wear black tie; they want to wear capes and swords and tassels; they want to play as loud as they can and see mallards drop from the ceiling. Of the people who've keeled over dead at orchestra concerts, most of them were killed by a long trumpet passage. And most of them were glad to go. There are two places in the orchestra for a Lutheran and one is the percussion section. It's the most Christian instrument there is. Percussionists are endlessly patient because they hardly ever get to play. Pages and pages of music go by when the violins are sawing away and the winds are tooting and the brass are blasting, and the percussionist sits there and counts the bars like a hunter in the blind waiting for a grouse to appear. A percussionist may have to wait for twenty minutes just to play a few beats, but those beats have to be exact, and they have to be passionate, climactic. All that the Epistles of Paul say a Christian should be--faithful, waiting, trusting, filled with fervor--are the qualities of the good percussionist. The other Lutheran instrument, of course, is the harp. It's a good instrument for any Christian because it keeps you humble and keeps you at home. You can't run around with a harp. Having one is like living with an elderly parent in very poor health: it's hard to get them in and out of cars, and it's hard to keep them happy. It takes fourteen hours to tune a harp, which remains in tune for about twenty minutes, or until somebody opens the door. It's an instrument for a saint. If a harpist could find a good percussionist, they wouldn't need anybody else. They could settle down and make perfectly good music, just the two of them. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:37:22 -0500 From: "Avery, Ray (232)" Subject: Re: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Great stuff. Garrison puts things into perspective wonderfully. Ray Avery Director, Human Resources Harvard Custom Manufacturing, Inc. 607-687-7669 -----Original Message----- From: Erik Berggren [mailto:Erik.Berggren@OSBCKANSAS.ORG] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:15 AM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Being a Lutheran trombone player, I found this to be entertaining! Sorry for the length, but I figure it makes up for all those times I haven't posted to the List! Erik Berggren - AAA (Always An Amateur) The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra by Garrison Keillor To each person, God gives some talent such as comedy, just to name one, or the ability to suffer, and to some persons God has given musical talent, though not to as many as think so. So for a young Lutheran considering an orchestral career, the first question to ask yourself is, "Do I have a genuine God-given talent, or do I only seem talented compared to other young Lutherans?" Because most Lutherans aren't musicians, they're choir members. Mostly altos and basses. And they can be sure that their gift is God-given, because who else but God would be interested? Nobody goes into choir music for the wrong reasons. But orchestra... do you know what you're getting into? You're getting into opera for one thing. Don Juan and Mephistopheles, pagan goddesses screeching and being strangled and thrown off balconies. And even if you stick to concert music, where are the Christian composers? Modern ones are existentialists, the romantics were secular humanists, the 18th century was all rationalists, and the 17th were Italian except for Bach. And you can't make a living playing Bach. In the Bible, we read about people singing and playing musical instruments, including the harp, the last trump, the cymbal, the psaltery. But in the Bible, music was in praise of the Lord, not for amusement. We don't read that our Lord Himself ever played an instrument or enjoyed hearing other people play theirs. The apostles did not attend concerts. They weren't in the arts--maybe there's a reason for that. You play in an orchestra, you're going to be devoting your life to music that sort of swirls around in spiritual mystery. Searching for answers that people could find in the Epistle to the Romans if somebody just showed them where it is. But if you're determined to play in an orchestra, then you ought to ask yourself, "Which instrument is the best one for a Lutheran to play?" Which instrument would our Lord have chosen, assuming He played an instrument? And assuming He was Lutheran. Probably not a French horn: the French horn takes too much of a person's life. French horn players hardly have time to marry and have children. The French horn is practically a religious belief all by itself. In some orchestras, the horn players are required to be celibate--sometimes by their wives. Because they think about the horn all the time anyway. Should a Lutheran play the bassoon? Not if you want to be taken seriously, I don't think so. The name kind of says it all: bassoon. It's an instrument that isn't playing with a full deck of marbles. Maybe it's something you'd do for a hobby ("Hey honey, let's go bassooning this weekend!"), but not as your life's work. Some bassoonists filling out applications for home loans just say "orthodontist." Many Lutherans start out playing clarinets in marching band and think of it as a pretty good instrument and kind of sociable. You pick up a clarinet, and you feel like getting together with other people and forming an "M." But the symphonic clarinet is different: clever, sarcastic, kind of snooty. It's a nice small town instrument that went to college and after that you can't get a simple answer out of them. It is a French instrument, you know. Ever wonder why there are no French Lutherans? Probably the wine wasn't good enough for them. The oboe is the sensualist of the woodwind section, and if there is one wind Lutherans should avoid, it's probably this one. In movie soundtracks, you tend to hear the oboe when the woman is taking her clothes off. Also a little later when she asks the man for a cigarette. You start playing the oboe, you're going to have babies, take my word for it. The English horn sounds Christian, maybe because we think of it as the Anglican horn, but it's so mournful, so plaintive. And so are English horn players. They all have deep complicated problems. They're all down in the dumps, especially at night, which is when most concerts are. Maybe because they want what oboists have, I don't know. The flute is the show-off of the wind section, the big shot: Jean-Pierre Rampal, James Galway--both millionaires. (How many millionaire bassoonists can you name real fast?) Well, that's fine. Everybody knows it's the hardest, blowing across a tiny hole with your head tilted all your life: it's like soloing on a pop bottle. The problem with the flute is that it vibrates your brain, and you start wearing big white caftans and smocks and eat roots and berries. You become a pantheist and sit in meadows, and you believe that all is one and God is everything--God is a column of air vibrating--and you know that's not right. The last member of the woodwind family is the flakiest and that's the piccolo. It's never in tune. Never has been, never will be. All you can play with it is the blues. Which, being a Lutheran, we don't have anyway. We come now to the string section. Strings are mentioned in scripture and some young Christians are tempted to become string players. But you want to be careful. Bass, for example. A very deliberate instrument, the plow horse of the orchestra: and bass players do tend to be more methodical, not so spontaneous or witty or brilliant necessarily, but reliable. Which makes the instrument appealing to German Lutherans. And yet bass notes do have a certain texture and a tone, a darkness, a depth that--my gosh, when you see those guys pick up their bows back there, doesn't it make you think the same thing that I do? And if we do, just think what they're thinking about.... The cello section seems pleasant, and cellists seem like such nice people. The way they put their arms around their instruments, they look like parents at a day care center zipping up snowsuits. They seem like us: comfortable, mid-range, able to see both sides of things. And yet, there's something about the cello that's hard to put your fingers on. It just doesn't seem right. Maybe, it's the way they hold the instrument the way they do. Why can't they hold it across their laps? Or beside themselves? I'm only asking. The viola section is no place for a Lutheran and here you have to take my word for it, because I know violists and they're okay until late at night, they like to build a fire in a vacant lot and drink red wine and roast a chicken on a clothes hanger and talk about going to Mexico with somebody named Rita. Violists have this dark, moody, gypsy streak, especially when they get older, and they realize that their instrument for some reason cannot be heard beyond the stage. You think you hear the violas, but it's really the second violins. The first violin is a problem for a Christian because it's a solo virtuoso instrument and we Christians are humble and decent people. The first violins see the maestro look to them first, and most of them believe that he secretly takes his cue from watching their bows go up and down. The maestro, who has a great nimbus of hair and is here on a temporary work permit, is hypnotized by listening to the violins and forgets which page he's on and looks to the violins to find out what's going on--this is what most violinists believe in their hearts. That if the maestro dropped dead, the orchestra would just follow the violins while his little body was carried off into the wings, and nobody in the audience would notice any difference except that now they would have an unobstructed view of the violin section. Is this a place for a Lutheran to be? Did our Lord say "Blessed are they who stand up in front and take deep bows for they shall receive bigger fees?" No, He did not. The second violin section is attractive to Lutherans because these people are steady, supportive and helpful, but look who it is they help--they help out the first violins. You want to play second fiddle to that crowd? (No, I hope not.) One thing you may not know about second violins is that the parts are so easy they never practice and they wind up staying out late in singles bars on the freeway near the airport and dancing with software salesmen. But I guess that's their way. Let's be clear about one thing about the brass section. The rest of the orchestra wishes the brass were playing in another room. So does the conductor. His back is toward you so that you can't see what he's saying to them but what he's saying is, "Would you mind taking that thing outside?" The brass section is made up of men who were at one time in the construction trades. They went into music because the hours are better and there's less dust. They're heavy dudes and that's why composers wrote so few notes for them. Because after they play, you can't hear for a while. The tuba player is normally a stocky, bearded guy whose hobby is plumbing. The only member of the orchestra who bowls over 250 and gets his deer every year and changes his own oil. In his locker downstairs, he keeps a pair of lederhosen for free-lance jobs. Anyway, there's only one tuba in the bunch and he's it. The trombonist is a humorist, sort of the brother-in-law of the orchestra. He carries a water spray gun to keep his slide moist and often uses it against his neighbors. That's why they duck down back there. He's nobody you'd ever want to see become artistic director; you just hope he doesn't sit right behind you. The trumpet is the brass instrument you imagine as Christian, thinking of Gideon and Gabriel, and then you meet one in real life, and you realize how driven these people are. They don't want to wear black tie; they want to wear capes and swords and tassels; they want to play as loud as they can and see mallards drop from the ceiling. Of the people who've keeled over dead at orchestra concerts, most of them were killed by a long trumpet passage. And most of them were glad to go. There are two places in the orchestra for a Lutheran and one is the percussion section. It's the most Christian instrument there is. Percussionists are endlessly patient because they hardly ever get to play. Pages and pages of music go by when the violins are sawing away and the winds are tooting and the brass are blasting, and the percussionist sits there and counts the bars like a hunter in the blind waiting for a grouse to appear. A percussionist may have to wait for twenty minutes just to play a few beats, but those beats have to be exact, and they have to be passionate, climactic. All that the Epistles of Paul say a Christian should be--faithful, waiting, trusting, filled with fervor--are the qualities of the good percussionist. The other Lutheran instrument, of course, is the harp. It's a good instrument for any Christian because it keeps you humble and keeps you at home. You can't run around with a harp. Having one is like living with an elderly parent in very poor health: it's hard to get them in and out of cars, and it's hard to keep them happy. It takes fourteen hours to tune a harp, which remains in tune for about twenty minutes, or until somebody opens the door. It's an instrument for a saint. If a harpist could find a good percussionist, they wouldn't need anybody else. They could settle down and make perfectly good music, just the two of them. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:04:07 +0000 From: posaune rex Subject: webpage update Hello, For anyone interested, I've updated the Events section on my webpage this morning, adding info about the status of some orchestral positions, among other things. stacy werblin http://remember.to/practice _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:04:39 -0500 From: Eric Dregne Subject: The "Skatch" Anderssen Orchestra returns!!! (Long post) Greetings listers, This may be a bit of a stretch for a pure trombone posting and I know it's long, but work with me here...hear me out. I am the bass trombonist and leader of the "Skatch" Anderssen Orchestra; a 16 piece big band based in NE Ohio (Cleveland area). The band has once again emerged from hibernation to start performing in the east side area. We are looking for support from any and all folks in town that love to come and dance or listen to good music. We perform a wide range of tunes and styles spanning 60+ years of big band music. On any given night you could hear things made popular by bands like Glen Miller, Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Woody Herman, Buddy Rich and other more modern bands as well. Starting January 30th (8:30 -11:30pm), the band will be performing at Sneakee Pete's in Eastlake and are hoping that this can become a every-other-week event. The trombone section will include: Mark Mauldin - Mark played the lead book recently here in Cleveland with Slide Hampton's World Of Trombones and is an incredible composer and arranger as well. ) Andy Hunter (www.andrewhunter.org) - Andy was the winner of the Frank Rosolino Jazz award this year and is currently in Shanghai playing gigs. Monster player!! Eric Rowles - Bass trombonist of the Youngstown (OH) Symphony and an incredible all around player. As in Mel's band, he will be playing Bass Trombone on the 3rd book for an even fatter section sound. Eric "Girth" Dregne (saorchestra@hotmail.com) - Leader and founder of the banned. Free lance Tenor and Bass trombonist in the Cleveland area that has played with all kinds of people (like everyone else listed here) too long to name. The rest of the band should be great also, but the trombone section will be fun to hear!! Who Is "Skatch" Anderssen you ask? The History of Olaf "Skatch" Anderson ?translated from the memoirs of a family member Born in a small town in Norway, Olaf Anderssen had a passion for music and sounds. As a child, he would drive us all crazy with the constant whistling and pounding on everything. As he got older he dreamed of becoming a drummer/percussion player in a couple of local bands that frequented through the area. He would stay up late into the night playing on anything in the barn he could find until very late hours. Mother and Father gave up getting him to bed because he seemed to never need to sleep. After the passing of his family in the middle part of the 20th century, he had become an accomplished "Tusselfloyte" (Norwegian flute) player and still played percussion instruments. He made his way to the New England area of the United States at age 27 after divorcing from his wife and having no children. In fits of depression, he frequented a town bar in Massachusetts on the corner of the street he was living on and was introduced to Scotch Whiskey. Because of the strong accent of the people in the area, he learned the word as "Skatch" instead of "Scotch" and since locals were fond of nicknames, his became "Skatch" because it is what he would only drink. Somehow, he never seemed to lose his "sorts". He stumbled one night into another local bar and heard a group playing swing music. He immediately fell in love with the music and asked if he could sit in and play. He started to play and was awful. He practiced and practiced and then decided we was going to start a band like that of Count Basie and Duke Ellington. He assembled the best local jazz players and worked on creating a large jazz orchestra. He had booked his first gig in a local hall in the town he lived in with the band and named the band after himself. On the weekend before the first performance, he was to return to Norway for a family get together. While on that flight, the weather was very bad and his plane crashed into the ocean and the band never played. We now keep the dream alive of a man that put together a band that no one heard? If you are anywhere near the NE Ohio area on this date (January 30th), please come out and support the band. I have lots of fantastic originals and arrangements in the book and would love to have this turn into a regular gig on the east side of cleveland. Thanks for your time for reading all of this (if you get this far) and for those of you wondering, no, he is not a real person Peace and good music to all, Eric M. Dregne Bass Trombonist and Leader "Skatch" Anderssen Orchestra Please use saorchestra@hotmail.com to respond to this e-mail PS I have about 150 charts that i would be willing to trade with those interested. Drop me a line and I'll send you my library listing. Thanks!! Your Name Here ¬ Customer Service Group Representative Global Information Services ¬ Training & Client Services Jones Day ¬ 901 Lakeside Ave ¬ Cleveland, Ohio 44114 Phone 6-HELP (6-4357) ¬ Phone (External): 216-586-7615 ¬ (Toll Free): 1-877-656-5377 ========== The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains information that may be confidential, be protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privileges, or constitute non-public information. It is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. ========== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:09:47 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: oral cavity questions A trombone extends from about 9 feet long to 12 feet long. And the pedal tone wavelengths that a trombone produces are actually twice that long. My mouth is about 4 inches wide. Chances are pretty good that there wonÕt be any standing waves in my mouth, that contribute significantly to the tone of the note coming out of the trombone. TheyÕd be frequencies up around 3300 Hz. But that isnÕt top say that the mouth wonÕt have an effect on the tone. Surely the impedance of vibrating lips is high enough such that their effects on the trombone wonÕt be isolated from their effects on the respiratory system. But a respiratory system is not as rigid as a trombone. And as the respiratory system flexes with the pressure waves being created there, certain frequencies will be damped more than others. So perhaps my warm sound isnÕt because I have a big mouth, after all. Rather, itÕs a function of my flabby body. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:54:12 -0700 From: "Holst, Bill" Subject: Colorado Springs Symphony - Chapter 11 situation Fellow musicians and trombonists, We, the musicians of the Colorado Springs Symphony Orchestra, need your help. David Oliver is correct. The Colorado Springs Symphony Orchestra did file for Chapter 11 last Friday, January 10. There has been a feeble attempt to try to rectify the situation by asking the musicians take substantial cuts: 1) a 10% reduction of pay, 2) eliminating the January 15 payroll entirely, 3) not hiring 7 empty string positions, and 4) elimination of approximately 20 services in the remainder of this season. We are in the third year of our three year contract: future items the board would like to see (over the next 3 years) include: continuing the 10% pay cut, reducing the number of services from 144 to 101, reduction of benefits, elimination of 7 string positions, the list goes on. All of this in spite of the fact that season ticket sales were up about 17% over last year, and fund raising was almost $200k ahead of last year at the end of December. While the 9/11 situation and overall market situation has hurt arts organizations everywhere, I know of nowhere else where the musicians have been asked to bear the entire brunt of the problem. Our music director, Larry Smith, has threatened to resign if the situation is not resolved soon. The latest in this saga is that the musicians, about 40, showed up at the office the morning of Jan. 15 to pick up music for the next concert and hopefully paychecks. We were told that we could not take the music and that there was no money for payroll. There was plenty of media there, so hopefully, some decent coverage will come of the event. The coverage in the local paper, the CS Gazette is fairly biased against the musicians. The Denver Post has been more willing to explain both sides of the issue. Anyone on the trombone list that would like to offer support in the form of a letter to the editor of the local papers or local 154 please send letters or comments to: Symphony board members (forwarded to all): mailto:cssboard@springsprelude.org Colo Spgs Gazette: mailto:gtop@gazette.com CS Independent: mailto:letters@csindy.com Local 154: mailto:PPMA154@aol.com Also, I have attached an information sheet from the local that lays out the situation. There are some suggestions of things that you might say in your letters... Thanks for any support, Bill Holst, trombonist, Colorado Springs Symphony Orchestra Attachment from Local 154: Musicians threatened with bankruptcy filing one day after receiving proposal to restructure CBA On January 10, 2003 the CSSO Association filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy after first notifying the Union of financial difficulties on New Year's Day. A proposal was presented on January 6 in which the musicians were asked to agree to forego January 15 paychecks, reduce per service wages by 10% for the balance of the season, reduce service counts by 30%, forfeit all remaining paid leave, and be paid "per performance." Other components of the proposal included these and other cuts through 2006. (Currently, musician's average annual salaries are between $12,000 and $13,000.) We were asked to respond by 3pm the following day, prior to the CSSO board meeting at 4pm on January 7. At the January 7 board meeting, the CSSO board authorized the filing of Chapter 11 bankruptcy on January 10 if the musicians had not agreed to their proposal by 9pm on January 9. Music Director Lawrence Leighton Smith threatened his resignation if the bankruptcy was filed; an official announcement is expected within the next 24 hours. The Union and the Orchestra Players Committee hand- delivered a response the afternoon of January 9 offering to confer and negotiate and to reopen the contract to incorporate agreed-upon changes only at such time as an agreement was reached. We also asked for a plan which would contain their ideas for meeting future budget deficits without having musicians subsidize them. We actively engaged in getting our message to the media, at the same time secured the legal counsel of Leonard Leibowitz, and made arrangements to meet with the orchestra. Following our offers to meet with the management, they accused us of delaying, stonewalling, and " prevarication!" As of this date they have been unable to provide us with financial information through December 31, but have managed to give us yet another proposal more severe than the first, which would take the orchestra backward more than 20 years. In this proposal, they would only pay the musicians if there was enough money left after other expenses were paid. Musicians are united in their disgust, shock, disappointment and outrage. On Wednesday January 15, the designated payday, orchestra members appeared at the CSSO office to pick up paychecks and folders for the next concert set. We gave the media advance notice of the event and held a press conference while musicians were being told by the Executive Director that there was no music or paychecks. Grievances and NLRB charges are being prepared. These events are the culmination of over a year's effort by the Executive Committee of the CSSO Board of Directors to systematically destroy the orchestra, the CBA and the union in order to have total control and to operate with minimal effort and cost. The extent of the "crisis" has not been proven; no evidence exists that such action is warranted. They have gone on record saying they have raised $620K in 60 days prior to the end of December, but have provided no information on how it was spent. They have also stated that this amount was under target, but ahead of prior years. They have declared that adequate funds are actually available for payroll, but have been escrowed to cover other expenses that will likely never occur. We are forming committees to handle various activities as the process moves forward. We have applied for the ROPA-ERF and our Player's Assembly fund will provide some short-term relief. Many of our musicians will be out of money to cover basic expenses very soon. We are still investigating ways to keep health insurance intact. We are asking for your help in two ways: 1. If your orchestra as a whole can make a donation in any amount, or if individuals wish to contribute, we would be extremely grateful. You may send donations made payable to: CSSO Players Assembly (a non-profit organization with its own tax ID#) c/o Mary Anne Lemoine 1942 Essex Ln. Colorado Springs, CO 80909 2. We urge you to express your outrage to the CSSO Executive Director and the CSSO Board of Directors. We have created a special web address for you to e-mail letters to the entire Board of Directors quickly; (we will also receive a copy simultaneously). It is: cssboard@springsprelude.org Letters may also be sent snail mail to: Larry Barrett, Executive Director CSSO Board of Directors Colorado Springs Symphony P.O. Box 1692 Colorado Springs, CO 80901 Please emphasize the following points: 1. That the board has recklessly endangered the future of the CSSO by its recent actions and by its inaction over the past year. 2. That the board should have focused on their responsibility to insure the existence of this 75 year-old orchestra and the artistic achievement that has been accomplished by showing respect for the musicians, not destroying their livelihoods. 3. That the drastic measures they are proposing will do nothing but harm the organization and will prevent it from achieving its mission of supporting the community of Colorado Springs. 4. That no professional orchestra in the United States operates in the manner that has been proposed to our musicians. Many, many thanks for any help you can provide! We'll provide updates as time allows; we're pretty busy right now. Submitted by Diane Merrill, President, Pikes Peak Musicians Association, on behalf of the CSSO Players Committee. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:18:58 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee Subject: Re: oral cavity questions At 05:09 PM 1/16/2003 +0000, Daniel Pliskin wrote: >A trombone extends from about 9 feet long to 12 feet long. And the pedal >tone wavelengths that a trombone produces are actually twice that long. My >mouth is about 4 inches wide. Chances are pretty good that there won't be >any standing waves in my mouth, that contribute significantly to the tone of >the note coming out of the trombone. They'd be frequencies up around 3300 >Hz. I agree, but consider two points: 1) Timbre is all about overtones. The overtones are all shorter than the fundamental, and some of them are very short indeed. 2) You don't need a standing wave to produce sound. You can have a stream of transients that sum up to the total acoustic effect. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:29:48 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Mind-boggling thoughts on oral cavity questions DP's interesting facts culminated with: From: "Daniel Pliskin" > So perhaps my warm sound isn't because I have a big mouth, after all. > Rather, it's a function of my flabby body. Ever heard of the Chaos Theory? "A butterfly flapping its wings in Australia could have a significant effect on the weather in Scotland". I wish they'd get rid of their butterflies. It might then stop raining here..... ......So, is it then not possible that my lips flapping on a pedal Bb may have caused many people to be burned out of their homes due to the last spate of brush fires around Sydney? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:34:32 +0000 From: rkeilitz@ATT.NET Subject: Parts for Benge 190C I recently came into ownership of a Benge 190C. It's a beautiful older horn with lots of character, however it is missing the straight section. I'm also interested in picking up another slide for it, and maybe another bell, if they are available. I'm looking to see if anybody has a 190C that could be used for spare parts. Or if someone would just like to part with their current straight section because they never use it, that would be cool too. As far as the slide is concerned, it can be either new, or used. If used, do not worry if it is in "great" condition or not. That isn't necessary. As long as it is in a condition where the good Slide Doctor can bring it into line, that's fine. Oh, and keep in mind that the "twist-ring" that is used to secure the slide to the bell section is on the slide, and looks like the same kind of ring that was on an old King. I don't know if the bells for this horn were ever made in any other finish besides the lacquer, but I'd like to pick up another bell which again can be either new or used. If used, I don't mind some small dents (normal wear) which can be fixed when I send it in to have it stripped and plated. What I'm after here is a silver-plated bell. Now, none of these are immediate needs. Just putting the word out to see what may be available out there in the world. Bob Keilitz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:27:45 -0500 From: gmills Subject: Collapsed lung and trombone playing Hi Everyone, I just spent four days in the hospital with a collapsed lung(pneuothorax). I have been told not to play trombone for an indefinite period of time(also no scuba diving or air travel).Has anyone had experience with this condition? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd hate to think I couldn't play anymore. Glenn Mills NYC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:03:12 -0800 From: Robert Slaven Subject: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone Greetings. I spent some time on the list a few years ago, but raising my little brood has kept me away. Anyhow, I have a situation here where I'm hoping you learned fellow bonists can help me out. We got broken into in November. Along with my wife's jewellery, our camera, and my electric bass (just a Squier, no biggie), my battered-but-beloved 1976 King 4B was taken. I got that horn in Grade 10, and hauled it all around the Arctic on various and sundry band trips. (Ever been to Tuktoyaktuk? Four times?!) Concert band, wind ensemble, stage band, bit of orchestra, I did everything with it. I played a bit in university, but then being a starving student and having a young family meant I didn't play much in the 1980's. In the 90's I got back into it, mostly playing lead in stage bands and musicals. At the time, pushing all that air for all those hours through that big bone made me think about buying a good used 2B or 6H or some such. Anyhow, I suppose the insurance company will be cutting me a cheque for around C$2500-3000, since I gather that's what a new 4B-with-F-attachment would cost me nowadays. But is that necessarily the way to go? I'm sort of looking at five possibilities here: 1) Buy another 4B (or equivalent, e.g. 88H). But I find it really tiring to push a lot of air through that horn if I continue to do lots of lead jazz/musical work. Mind you, I'm no longer in my small hometown (Yellowknife NT), but am now in a less-small town (Prince George BC) where there are enough good players that I'd probably do more middle-part work. 2) Buy a 2B (or equivalent, e.g. 100H). That'd be lots of fun for lead work; but what if I don't get much lead work here? And would it be too bright even for 1st parts in a small orchestra, say? 3) Compromise with a 3B, or maybe a Bach 36. (I've gotta confess, that two-bell 3B that Sabutin has on his Trombone Store site looks awfully tempting!!) Full enough for a good orchestral sound, but small enough to be a nice 'efficient' horn for the lead/jazz/musical possibilities. But are these horns the best of both worlds, or the worst of both worlds? 4) Buy two used horns, a 2B/.500-ish horn and a 4B/.547 horn. I suspect I could get such from Dillon's or somewhere for about the price of a new 4B. But I don't have a lot of options in the area if it needs any work, so I'd have to be *really* sure the horn was in good shape. 5) Sniffing around, I found that Jupiter has some decent-looking trombones for about the same price (new) as good used King/Conn/Bach trombones. I've never played a Jupiter bone, but I played a Jupiter double French horn (yes, I'm a masochist) for a year, and it struck me as a pretty decent instrument; well-made, played well, sounded pretty good. Blessing strikes me as being in the same league, although I have zero experience with that brand. For someone like me -- a decent amateur who plays occasionally but not constantly -- would dropping down to one of these brands be 'a good buy' or 'sacrificing too much quality'? Finally, if any of you are in BC or Alberta or Washington State, I'd appreciate any recommendations for stores where I could go (e.g. in Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, or Seattle) for a decent selection of new and used horns to try out for myself. I can't see anyone wanting to ship X horns all the way up here, and I suspect the local music store is more used to the Yamaha-354/King-606 line of things for the schools. (And yes, there are a couple of local pros I'm going to ask for advice, too; but I figure you can never have too much information on something like this.) Thanks, everyone. It's good to be back. Robert -- Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too You see, it's just that his brain is so tiny that the slightest movement can dislodge it. - Monty Python's Flying Circus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:21:55 -0600 From: Bill Dinwiddie Subject: Carl The following is from the website "Trombone Page of the World". I think Rene has really made a terrific point. We should not allow Carl Fontana to drift away without knowing that he has a great many friends in this world. I don't know much about Carl's current state, but maybe it doesn't matter - I'm sure someone at the Aegis can read our letters to him. I would hope that it would make a big difference to him. I think that we can all agree that this man has contributed more to the art of jazz trombone performance than any other living person. I have listened to his music since 1956 and I am still absolutely in awe of him. I am going to write a letter today and I hope many of you will join me. Thank you, Bill Dinwiddie bill752d@attbi.com ************************************************************************** Carl Fontana's Alzheimer's Carl Fontana now resides in an Alzheimer's Care Facility, called Aegis of Las Vegas. He needs old pals and friends to contact him, painful as that may be to his fans, we owe him at least that. He gets to perform in house at Aegis every Monday with a piano player (if possible). Now look here, if we all care and adore Carl as we obviously do, can we make some impact on his twilight years? Don't let us turn our heads as he may waste away. All we can do is help. And we can send Carl letters and mail. Thanks! Renˇ Laanen (webmaster) The Hague, Netherlands Please write to Carl at: Mr. Carl Fontana Aegis of Las Vegas Room 126 9100 West Desert Inn Road Las Vegas, NV 89117 USA Phone: (702) 240-3070 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:32:49 +0000 From: rkeilitz@ATT.NET Subject: Re: Parts for Benge 190C Oh, and I'm looking for a used, but fully functional case as well. It does not have to be a Benge case. Please contact me off list regarding anything you may have which may be of interest to me. Bob > I recently came into ownership of a Benge 190C. It's a beautiful older horn > with lots of character, however it is missing the straight section. I'm also > interested in picking up another slide for it, and maybe another bell, if they > are available. I'm looking to see if anybody has a 190C that could be used for > spare parts. Or if someone would just like to part with their current straight > section because they never use it, that would be cool too. > > As far as the slide is concerned, it can be either new, or used. If used, do > not worry if it is in "great" condition or not. That isn't necessary. As long > as it is in a condition where the good Slide Doctor can bring it into line, > that's fine. Oh, and keep in mind that the "twist-ring" that is used to secure > the slide to the bell section is on the slide, and looks like the same kind of > ring that was on an old King. > > I don't know if the bells for this horn were ever made in any other finish > besides the lacquer, but I'd like to pick up another bell which again can be > either new or used. If used, I don't mind some small dents (normal wear) which > can be fixed when I send it in to have it stripped and plated. What I'm after > here is a silver-plated bell. > > Now, none of these are immediate needs. Just putting the word out to see what > may be available out there in the world. > > Bob Keilitz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:38:17 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Edwards stuff for sale... Howdy, A good friend is selling some Edwards bass bone parts. If interested, you can contact him directly (bonechops@yahoo.com), or reply to me off-list. 1) Edwards 9-1/2 inch yellow brass bell, 23 gauge, unsoldered rim, CF treatment (bell is marked 1317CF). Bell was hardly ever used (he switched to a Bach bell), and is near-perfect to my eye. 2) Edwards rose brass, single radius tuning slide. Also nearly perfect. 3) Edwards "straight-pipe" attachment - converts your single or dual Thayer Edwards Bass into the largest straight horn in existence - no valves. Again - nearly perfect! 'Nuff said :-) J.c. Sherman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:48:48 -0600 From: Jeff Albert Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone I would either Buy Sam's two bell 3B (just cause it looks like a cool horn) or get two used horns (.500 or .508 and .547). Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE- > L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Slaven > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 2:03 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] Advice on replacing a stolen trombone > > Greetings. I spent some time on the list a few years ago, but raising my > little brood has kept me away. Anyhow, I have a situation here where I'm > hoping you learned fellow bonists can help me out. > > We got broken into in November. Along with my wife's jewellery, our > camera, > and my electric bass (just a Squier, no biggie), my battered-but-beloved > 1976 > King 4B was taken. > > I got that horn in Grade 10, and hauled it all around the Arctic on > various > and sundry band trips. (Ever been to Tuktoyaktuk? Four times?!) Concert > band, wind ensemble, stage band, bit of orchestra, I did everything with > it. > I played a bit in university, but then being a starving student and having > a > young family meant I didn't play much in the 1980's. In the 90's I got > back > into it, mostly playing lead in stage bands and musicals. At the time, > pushing all that air for all those hours through that big bone made me > think > about buying a good used 2B or 6H or some such. > > Anyhow, I suppose the insurance company will be cutting me a cheque for > around > C$2500-3000, since I gather that's what a new 4B-with-F-attachment would > cost > me nowadays. But is that necessarily the way to go? I'm sort of looking > at > five possibilities here: > > 1) Buy another 4B (or equivalent, e.g. 88H). But I find it really tiring > to > push a lot of air through that horn if I continue to do lots of lead > jazz/musical work. Mind you, I'm no longer in my small hometown > (Yellowknife > NT), but am now in a less-small town (Prince George BC) where there are > enough > good players that I'd probably do more middle-part work. > > 2) Buy a 2B (or equivalent, e.g. 100H). That'd be lots of fun for lead > work; > but what if I don't get much lead work here? And would it be too bright > even > for 1st parts in a small orchestra, say? > > 3) Compromise with a 3B, or maybe a Bach 36. (I've gotta confess, that > two-bell 3B that Sabutin has on his Trombone Store site looks awfully > tempting!!) Full enough for a good orchestral sound, but small enough to > be a > nice 'efficient' horn for the lead/jazz/musical possibilities. But are > these > horns the best of both worlds, or the worst of both worlds? > > 4) Buy two used horns, a 2B/.500-ish horn and a 4B/.547 horn. I suspect I > could get such from Dillon's or somewhere for about the price of a new 4B. > But I don't have a lot of options in the area if it needs any work, so I'd > have to be *really* sure the horn was in good shape. > > 5) Sniffing around, I found that Jupiter has some decent-looking trombones > for > about the same price (new) as good used King/Conn/Bach trombones. I've > never > played a Jupiter bone, but I played a Jupiter double French horn (yes, I'm > a > masochist) for a year, and it struck me as a pretty decent instrument; > well-made, played well, sounded pretty good. Blessing strikes me as being > in > the same league, although I have zero experience with that brand. For > someone > like me -- a decent amateur who plays occasionally but not constantly -- > would > dropping down to one of these brands be 'a good buy' or 'sacrificing too > much > quality'? > > Finally, if any of you are in BC or Alberta or Washington State, I'd > appreciate any recommendations for stores where I could go (e.g. in > Edmonton, > Calgary, Vancouver, or Seattle) for a decent selection of new and used > horns > to try out for myself. I can't see anyone wanting to ship X horns all the > way > up here, and I suspect the local music store is more used to the > Yamaha-354/King-606 line of things for the schools. > > (And yes, there are a couple of local pros I'm going to ask for advice, > too; > but I figure you can never have too much information on something like > this.) > > Thanks, everyone. It's good to be back. > > Robert > -- > Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca > ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too > You see, it's just that his brain is so tiny that the slightest > movement can dislodge it. - Monty Python's Flying Circus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:59:56 -0800 From: Jim O'Briant Subject: Re: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Jim Gayfer wrote, in part: > You should try and find a recording of it. > If you're stuck, drop me an e-mail off-line > and I'll burn you a copy of it. Please don't do that! If you own a copyrighted recording, it's legal for you to make a copy of it for your own personal use. But making a copy for someone else is copyright infringement. If you give him a copy, then he doesn't buy one, and that takes money out of the pockets of the musicians who made the recording, 'cause they don't get their royalties. Jim O'Briant Bayside Music Press Gilroy, CA www.baysidemusicpress.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:04:11 -0000 From: Mike Thorn Subject: Re: Collapsed lung and trombone playing I recall a dear old friend, an elderly tuba player who, in his 70s, had = one and a half lungs removed due to lung cancer. His doctor's advice was = (amongst other things) to drink a pint of guinness a day to keep up his = iron intake, and to quit smoking. Some time later he returned to playing tuba in his band again, always = with his pint close at hand! I recall his playing was affected = considerably, but his outlook wasn't. He would frequently stop playing = to gasp and clutch his chest, then reach for his fag (conveniently = resting on his music stand!) followed by a sup from his pint before = regaining his strength to carry on. Not suggesting this is the healthiest way of living after lung problems. = But Bernard was a dear old sod who loved his banding, and nothing would = get in the way of it! Mike www.greatyarmouthbrass.org.uk =20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:32:34 -0400 From: sabutin Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone >I would either Buy Sam's two bell 3B (just cause it looks like a cool >horn) or get two used horns (.500 or .508 and .547). > >Jeff Albert > >www.jeffalbert.com ============= The trigger bell's gone already... S. -- (Sam Burtis, author of "The American Trombone" and proud proprietor of The Trombone Store in NYC, featuring only the finest new and used lower brass instruments and accessories. Visit us on the web at [still under construction], email us at , or call us at [718] 796-4413. By appointment only.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:56:35 -0600 From: Bill Dinwiddie Subject: "CD Settlement" by music industry - check it out I occasionally work for a very nice guy named Bob, a real fine bass player and leader. He sent me this and says that he checked it out and believes it to be true. It looks legit, and it might mean that you can collect $20.00 from the record industry. All you are giving up is your name and address. I think I will give it a shot. I know there are a million scams but, I mean, a double sawbuck is a double sawbuck. Am I right or am I right? Paste the link into your browser if clicking doesn't work. http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/default.htm Good Luck, Bill Dinwiddie Chicago, IL bill752d@attbi.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:08:23 -0500 From: Jim Gayfer Subject: Re: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Don't worry, Jim, I don't make a practice of it but I understand that recording has been out of print for years. -----Original Message----- From: Jim O'Briant [mailto:jobriant@garlic.com] Sent: January 16, 2003 4:00 PM To: Gayfer, Jim; TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: RE: [TBN-L] The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Jim Gayfer wrote, in part: > You should try and find a recording of it. > If you're stuck, drop me an e-mail off-line > and I'll burn you a copy of it. Please don't do that! If you own a copyrighted recording, it's legal for you to make a copy of it for your own personal use. But making a copy for someone else is copyright infringement. If you give him a copy, then he doesn't buy one, and that takes money out of the pockets of the musicians who made the recording, 'cause they don't get their royalties. Jim O'Briant Bayside Music Press Gilroy, CA www.baysidemusicpress.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:09:59 -0600 From: Eric Edwards Subject: [Fwd: [TBN-L] "CD Settlement" by music industry - check it out] There is an article in the Dallas Morning News about this settlement. I believe it's legit. I signed up so let's see what happens. Eric > > From: Bill Dinwiddie > Date: 2003/01/16 Thu PM 03:56:35 CST > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: [TBN-L] "CD Settlement" by music industry - check it out > > I occasionally work for a very nice guy named Bob, a real fine bass player > and leader. He sent me this and says that he checked it out and believes it > to be true. It looks legit, and it might mean that you can collect $20.00 > from the record industry. All you are giving up is your name and address. I > think I will give it a shot. I know there are a million scams but, I mean, a > double sawbuck is a double sawbuck. Am I right or am I right? Paste the link > into your browser if clicking doesn't work. > > > http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/default.htm > > Good Luck, > Bill Dinwiddie > Chicago, IL > bill752d@attbi.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:24:47 -0500 From: Jim Gayfer Subject: Re: Advice on replacing a stolen trombone Sorry to hear about your horn. It depends a lot on the type of playing you're going to be doing most. If you're going to be playing any classical and you only want to buy one horn, I would suggest that you go with the Bach 36 or Yamaha 683G (684G if you want a valve) as a good compromise horn. The Bach I believe is a .520 bore and the Yamaha is .525 -- about halfway (well, not quite) between an 88H and a 3B. They both work well in big band or small group situations as well. Prince George!! I used to go up there when I was with the RCMP Band in another lifetime. Is Mr. PG still standing? Jim Gayfer Trombone/baritone NorthWinds Brass Quintet Ottawa, ON (613) 523-4285 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Slaven [mailto:robertslaven@SHAW.CA] Sent: January 16, 2003 3:03 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Advice on replacing a stolen trombone Greetings. I spent some time on the list a few years ago, but raising my little brood has kept me away. Anyhow, I have a situation here where I'm hoping you learned fellow bonists can help me out. We got broken into in November. Along with my wife's jewellery, our camera, and my electric bass (just a Squier, no biggie), my battered-but-beloved 1976 King 4B was taken. I got that horn in Grade 10, and hauled it all around the Arctic on various and sundry band trips. (Ever been to Tuktoyaktuk? Four times?!) Concert band, wind ensemble, stage band, bit of orchestra, I did everything with it. I played a bit in university, but then being a starving student and having a young family meant I didn't play much in the 1980's. In the 90's I got back into it, mostly playing lead in stage bands and musicals. At the time, pushing all that air for all those hours through that big bone made me think about buying a good used 2B or 6H or some such. Anyhow, I suppose the insurance company will be cutting me a cheque for around C$2500-3000, since I gather that's what a new 4B-with-F-attachment would cost me nowadays. But is that necessarily the way to go? I'm sort of looking at five possibilities here: 1) Buy another 4B (or equivalent, e.g. 88H). But I find it really tiring to push a lot of air through that horn if I continue to do lots of lead jazz/musical work. Mind you, I'm no longer in my small hometown (Yellowknife NT), but am now in a less-small town (Prince George BC) where there are enough good players that I'd probably do more middle-part work. 2) Buy a 2B (or equivalent, e.g. 100H). That'd be lots of fun for lead work; but what if I don't get much lead work here? And would it be too bright even for 1st parts in a small orchestra, say? 3) Compromise with a 3B, or maybe a Bach 36. (I've gotta confess, that two-bell 3B that Sabutin has on his Trombone Store site looks awfully tempting!!) Full enough for a good orchestral sound, but small enough to be a nice 'efficient' horn for the lead/jazz/musical possibilities. But are these horns the best of both worlds, or the worst of both worlds? 4) Buy two used horns, a 2B/.500-ish horn and a 4B/.547 horn. I suspect I could get such from Dillon's or somewhere for about the price of a new 4B. But I don't have a lot of options in the area if it needs any work, so I'd have to be *really* sure the horn was in good shape. 5) Sniffing around, I found that Jupiter has some decent-looking trombones for about the same price (new) as good used King/Conn/Bach trombones. I've never played a Jupiter bone, but I played a Jupiter double French horn (yes, I'm a masochist) for a year, and it struck me as a pretty decent instrument; well-made, played well, sounded pretty good. Blessing strikes me as being in the same league, although I have zero experience with that brand. For someone like me -- a decent amateur who plays occasionally but not constantly -- would dropping down to one of these brands be 'a good buy' or 'sacrificing too much quality'? Finally, if any of you are in BC or Alberta or Washington State, I'd appreciate any recommendations for stores where I could go (e.g. in Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, or Seattle) for a decent selection of new and used horns to try out for myself. I can't see anyone wanting to ship X horns all the way up here, and I suspect the local music store is more used to the Yamaha-354/King-606 line of things for the schools. (And yes, there are a couple of local pros I'm going to ask for advice, too; but I figure you can never have too much information on something like this.) Thanks, everyone. It's good to be back. Robert -- Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too You see, it's just that his brain is so tiny that the slightest movement can dislodge it. - Monty Python's Flying Circus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:28:23 -0600 From: Mearl Danner Subject: Re: "CD Settlement" by music industry - check it out Here are the details of the cash settlement. It appears that if enough people apply, the cash goes to charities, etc. $67,375,000 is the amount. If there were no attorney's fees - ha!! - 13 million can apply before it goes to other than the claimants. Shhhhh!!! Or, tell everyone you know and maybe some school music programs might get a windfall. The cash paid by the Defendants, after the payment of attorneys' fees, litigation and Settlement administration costs, shall be distributed to consumers who purchased Music Products. The number of claims filed will determine the actual amount of the individual refund but will not exceed $20.00 per claimant. If the number of claims filed would result in refunds of less than $5.00 per claimant, there will be no cash distribution to individual consumers. Rather, the cash portion of the Settlement shall be distributed to not-for-profit, charitable, governmental or public entities to be used for music-related purposes or programs for the benefit of consumers who purchased Music Products. -----Original Message----- From: Trombones and related issues forum. [mailto:TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Dinwiddie Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 3:57 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] "CD Settlement" by music industry - check it out I occasionally work for a very nice guy named Bob, a real fine bass player and leader. He sent me this and says that he checked it out and believes it to be true. It looks legit, and it might mean that you can collect $20.00 from the record industry. All you are giving up is your name and address. I think I will give it a shot. I know there are a million scams but, I mean, a double sawbuck is a double sawbuck. Am I right or am I right? Paste the link into your browser if clicking doesn't work. http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/default.htm Good Luck, Bill Dinwiddie Chicago, IL bill752d@attbi.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:37:26 -0500 From: Harlan Feinstein Subject: Re: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Jim> Don't worry, Jim, I don't make a practice of it but I understand Jim> that recording has been out of print for years. Actually, not true... just checked, and CDConnection.com (for one) has Garrison keillor's "Lake Wobegon Loyalty Days." I'm sure Amazon and others must have it too, since it's still apparently in print. --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:45:23 +0100 From: Simon Bailey Subject: schubert's unfinished hi all, i'll probably be playing 3rd trombone in schubert's unfinished symphony with the uni-orchestra this semester, and wanted to ask if there's anything interesting in there (i won't be getting the parts for another few weeks)? regards, simon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:57:26 -0800 From: Randy Fendrick Subject: Re: The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra - Long! Garrison Keillor has a video out re: this using I believe the St Paul Orchestra, very, very funny. The playing is very good also. later, Randy Fendrick Southside Chicago Seven Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra On Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 08:14 AM, Erik Berggren wrote: > Being a Lutheran trombone player, I found this to be entertaining! > Sorry for the length, but I figure it makes up for all those times I > haven't posted to the List! > > Erik Berggren - AAA > (Always An Amateur) > > The Young Lutheran's Guide to the Orchestra > > by Garrison Keillor > > To each person, God gives some talent such as comedy, just to name > one, or the ability to suffer, and to some persons God has given > musical talent, though not to as many as think so. So for a young > Lutheran considering an orchestral career, the first question to ask > yourself is, "Do I have a genuine God-given talent, or do I only seem > talented compared to other young Lutherans?" Because most Lutherans > aren't musicians, they're choir members. Mostly altos and basses. > And they can be sure that their gift is God-given, because who else > but God would be interested? Nobody goes into choir music for the > wrong reasons. But orchestra... do you know what you're getting into? > > You're getting into opera for one thing. Don Juan and Mephistopheles, > pagan goddesses screeching and being strangled and thrown off > balconies. And even if you stick to concert music, where are the > Christian composers? Modern ones are existentialists, the romantics > were secular humanists, the 18th century was all rationalists, and the > 17th were Italian except for Bach. And you can't make a living > playing Bach. In the Bible, we read about people singing and playing > musical instruments, including the harp, the last trump, the cymbal, > the psaltery. But in the Bible, music was in praise of the Lord, not > for amusement. We don't read that our Lord Himself ever played an > instrument or enjoyed hearing other people play theirs. The apostles > did not attend concerts. They weren't in the arts--maybe there's a > reason for that. You play in an orchestra, you're going to be devoting > your life to music that sort of swirls around in spiritual mystery. > Searching for answers that people could find in the Epistle to the > Romans if somebody just showed them where it is. > > But if you're determined to play in an orchestra, then you ought to > ask yourself, "Which instrument is the best one for a Lutheran to > play?" Which instrument would our Lord have chosen, assuming He > played an instrument? And assuming He was Lutheran. > > Probably not a French horn: the French horn takes too much of a > person's life. French horn players hardly have time to marry and have > children. The French horn is practically a religious belief all by > itself. In some orchestras, the horn players are required to be > celibate--sometimes by their wives. Because they think about the horn > all the time anyway. > > Should a Lutheran play the bassoon? Not if you want to be taken > seriously, I don't think so. The name kind of says it all: bassoon. > It's an instrument that isn't playing with a full deck of marbles. > Maybe it's something you'd do for a hobby ("Hey honey, let's go > bassooning this weekend!"), but not as your life's work. Some > bassoonists filling out applications for home loans just say > "orthodontist." > > Many Lutherans start out playing clarinets in marching band and think > of it as a pretty good instrument and kind of sociable. You pick up a > clarinet, and you feel like getting together with other people and > forming an "M." But the symphonic clarinet is different: clever, > sarcastic, kind of snooty. It's a nice small town instrument that > went to college and after that you can't get a simple answer out of > them. It is a French instrument, you know. Ever wonder why there are > no French Lutherans? Probably the wine wasn't good enough for them. > > The oboe is the sensualist of the woodwind section, and if there is > one wind Lutherans should avoid, it's probably this one. In movie > soundtracks, you tend to hear the oboe when the woman is taking her > clothes off. Also a little later when she asks the man for a > cigarette. You start playing the oboe, you're going to have babies, > take my word for it. > > The English horn sounds Christian, maybe because we think of it as the > Anglican horn, but it's so mournful, so plaintive. And so are English > horn players. They all have deep complicated problems. They're all > down in the dumps, especially at night, which is when most concerts > are. Maybe because they want what oboists have, I don't know. > > The flute is the show-off of the wind section, the big shot: > Jean-Pierre Rampal, James Galway--both millionaires. (How many > millionaire bassoonists can you name real fast?) Well, that's fine. > Everybody knows it's the hardest, blowing across a tiny hole with your > head tilted all your life: it's like soloing on a pop bottle. The > problem with the flute is that it vibrates your brain, and you start > wearing big white caftans and smocks and eat roots and berries. You > become a pantheist and sit in meadows, and you believe that all is one > and God is everything--God is a column of air vibrating--and you know > that's not right. The last member of the woodwind family is the > flakiest and that's the piccolo. It's never in tune. Never has been, > never will be. All you can play with it is the blues. Which, being a > Lutheran, we don't have anyway. > > We come now to the string section. Strings are mentioned in scripture > and some young Christians are tempted to become string players. But > you want to be careful. > > Bass, for example. A very deliberate instrument, the plow horse of > the orchestra: and bass players do tend to be more methodical, not so > spontaneous or witty or brilliant necessarily, but reliable. Which > makes the instrument appealing to German Lutherans. And yet bass > notes do have a certain texture and a tone, a darkness, a depth > that--my gosh, when you see those guys pick up their bows back there, > doesn't it make you think the same thing that I do? And if we do, just > think what they're thinking about.... > > The cello section seems pleasant, and cellists seem like such nice > people. The way they put their arms around their instruments, they > look like parents at a day care center zipping up snowsuits. They > seem like us: comfortable, mid-range, able to see both sides of > things. And yet, there's something about the cello that's hard to put > your fingers on. It just doesn't seem right. Maybe, it's the way they > hold the instrument the way they do. Why can't they hold it across > their laps? Or beside themselves? I'm only asking. > > The viola section is no place for a Lutheran and here you have to take > my word for it, because I know violists and they're okay until late at > night, they like to build a fire in a vacant lot and drink red wine > and roast a chicken on a clothes hanger and talk about going to > Mexico with somebody named Rita. Violists have this dark, moody, gypsy > streak, especially when they get older, and they realize that their > instrument for some reason cannot be heard beyond the stage. You think > you hear the violas, but it's really the second violins. > > The first violin is a problem for a Christian because it's a solo > virtuoso instrument and we Christians are humble and decent people. > The first violins see the maestro look to them first, and most of > them believe that he secretly takes his cue from watching their bows > go up and down. > > The maestro, who has a great nimbus of hair and is here on a temporary > work permit, is hypnotized by listening to the violins and forgets > which page he's on and looks to the violins to find out what's going > on--this is what most violinists believe in their hearts. > > That if the maestro dropped dead, the orchestra would just follow the > violins while his little body was carried off into the wings, and > nobody in the audience would notice any difference except that now > they would have an unobstructed view of the violin section. Is this a > place for a Lutheran to be? Did our Lord say "Blessed are they who > stand up in front and take deep bows for they shall receive bigger > fees?" No, He did not. > > The second violin section is attractive to Lutherans because these > people are steady, supportive and helpful, but look who it is they > help--they help out the first violins. You want to play second > fiddle to that crowd? (No, I hope not.) One thing you may not know > about second violins is that the parts are so easy they never practice > and they wind up staying out late in singles bars on the freeway near > the airport and dancing with software salesmen. But I guess that's > their way. > > Let's be clear about one thing about the brass section. The rest of > the orchestra wishes the brass were playing in another room. So does > the conductor. His back is toward you so that you can't see what he's > saying to them but what he's saying is, "Would you mind taking that > thing outside?" > > The brass section is made up of men who were at one time in the > construction trades. They went into music because the hours are better > and there's less dust. They're heavy dudes and that's why composers > wrote so few notes for them. Because after they play, you can't hear > for a while. > > The tuba player is normally a stocky, bearded guy whose hobby is > plumbing. The only member of the orchestra who bowls over 250 and gets > his deer every year and changes his own oil. In his locker > downstairs, he keeps a pair of lederhosen for free-lance jobs. > Anyway, there's only one tuba in the bunch and he's it. > > The trombonist is a humorist, sort of the brother-in-law of the > orchestra. He carries a water spray gun to keep his slide moist and > often uses it against his neighbors. That's why they duck down back > there. He's nobody you'd ever want to see become artistic director; > you just hope he doesn't sit right behind you. > > The trumpet is the brass instrument you imagine as Christian, thinking > of Gideon and Gabriel, and then you meet one in real life, and you > realize how driven these people are. They don't want to wear black > tie; they want to wear capes and swords and tassels; they want to play > as loud as they can and see mallards drop from the ceiling. Of the > people who've keeled over dead at orchestra concerts, most of them > were killed by a long trumpet passage. And most of them were glad to > go. > > There are two places in the orchestra for a Lutheran and one is the > percussion section. It's the most Christian instrument there is. > Percussionists are endlessly patient because they hardly ever get to > play. Pages and pages of music go by when the violins are sawing away > and the winds are tooting and the brass are blasting, and the > percussionist sits there and counts the bars like a hunter in the > blind waiting for a grouse to appear. A percussionist may have to > wait for twenty minutes just to play a few beats, but those beats have > to be exact, and they have to be passionate, climactic. All that the > Epistles of Paul say a Christian should be--faithful, waiting, > trusting, filled with fervor--are the qualities of the good > percussionist. > > The other Lutheran instrument, of course, is the harp. It's a good > instrument for any Christian because it keeps you humble and keeps you > at home. You can't run around with a harp. Having one is like living > with an elderly parent in very poor health: it's hard to get them in > and out of cars, and it's hard to keep them happy. It takes fourteen > hours to tune a harp, which remains in tune for about twenty minutes, > or until somebody opens the door. It's an instrument for a saint. If > a harpist could find a good percussionist, they wouldn't need anybody > else. They could settle down and make perfectly good music, just the > two of them. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:42:58 -0500 From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: schubert's unfinished At 11:45 PM 1/16/2003 +0100, Simon Bailey wrote: >hi all, > >i'll probably be playing 3rd trombone in schubert's unfinished symphony >with the uni-orchestra this semester, and wanted to ask if there's >anything interesting in there (i won't be getting the parts for another >few weeks)? Great part, quite interesting, and great piece. When Schubert used trombones, he used them very well. Roger Hecht ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:04:36 -0500 From: ROSEBONE@AOL.COM Subject: LATEX TRBN QT. SHORT CONCERT TOUR OK/KS Dear List members, Just wanted to let all the folks know about the short tour we are doing w/ the LATEX quartet in OK and KS this week: Sunday, Jan. 19, 2003 Northwestern Oklahoma State University, Alva, OK Herod Hall, 8 p.m. Monday, Jan. 20, 2003 Oklahoma University, Norman, OK Catlett Music Center Recital Hall, 7 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 21, 2003 Wichita State University, Wichita, KS Wiedemann Recital Hall, 7:30 p.m. The group consists of Michael Davidson (Northwestern Oklahoma State Univ., alto & tenor tbn.), Dr. William Mathis(Bowling Green State University, alto & tenor tbn.), William Rose (McNeese State University, soprano, alto, tenor tbn.) and Dr. Mark Thompson (Northwestern State University [LA], tenor and bass tbn.) As many of you know, we use the consort concept much of the time, and switch horns (and sizes!) for almost every piece on the program. This mini-tour is also giving us a chance to show off our self-titled CD, which is just out. For those of you within shouting distance, we hope we will see you at one of the concerts. Bill Rose McNeese State University Lake Charles, LA rosebone@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:38:38 -0500 From: Denver Seifried Subject: John Fedchock Clinic/Concert List Members: Another one of those shameless plugs----The Ohio Music Educators Association District 12 Honors Jazz Band function, this year, will be a concert/clinic with New York Big Band trombonist, John Fedchock and the Dayton Jazz Orchestra. The concert/clinic will begin around 1:30 p.m., in the Centerville High School Auditorium, this Saturday, January 18th. This will be an informal clinic and a great chance to hear and see one of the great jazz trombonist/arrangers of our times. While in Dayton, don't forget that list member Doug Yeo, of the BSO, will also be in town Friday through Sunday, for the Univ. of Dayton's Brass Festival. It is really hard to believe that two, great trombonists, like John and Doug, will be in Dayton, Ohio, at the same time! Great chance to hear and meet two fine trombone players! Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:42:57 -0800 From: Larry White Subject: Re: Calvert - One Liner Shows you what people always said about Morley. He was ahead of his time. He was writing in 'bilingual' even before it was the 'Law' in Canada and of course Unilingual Quebec! Seriously though, I had the distinct priviledge of being tutored by Morley at the Salvation Army Camp in Quebec, a music camp at Lac Lachigan, north of Montreal when I was quite a bit younger than I am now. He was a prince of a guy and man was he ever a wizzard on the Organ. He would very often play the offeratory - I think that is correct, in other words play during the collection, and you never knew what he was going to play. Quite often it was an improvisation of some familiar Hymn tune or something like that. Even as a youngster, I would sit up and listen! The years - 1953 to 1956 when my parents were posted in Montreal. Larry White Harlan Feinstein wrote: > How about those blotchy handwritten parts? Isn't that the hardest-to-read piece of music? Every time we have to refer to a rehearsal letter, we literally have to guess what the letter is. > > > > --Harlan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:45:38 -0500 From: Dale Cruse Subject: Re: John Fedchock Clinic/Concert Those who have had the pleasure of playing with "Fed" know that he has a really fun arrangement of "The Flintstones" theme set to rhythm changes titled, "Flintstoned." And he just shreds on it! Should be a great show! ---- Dale Cruse www.dalecruse.com Setting you up for online success. On 1/16/03 10:38 PM, "Denver Seifried" wrote: > List Members: > > Another one of those shameless plugs----The Ohio Music Educators Association > District 12 Honors Jazz Band function, this year, will be a concert/clinic > with New York Big Band trombonist, John Fedchock and the Dayton Jazz > Orchestra. The concert/clinic will begin around 1:30 p.m., in the > Centerville High School Auditorium, this Saturday, January 18th. This will > be an informal clinic and a great chance to hear and see one of the great > jazz trombonist/arrangers of our times. > > While in Dayton, don't forget that list member Doug Yeo, of the BSO, will > also be in town Friday through Sunday, for the Univ. of Dayton's Brass > Festival. It is really hard to believe that two, great trombonists, like > John and Doug, will be in Dayton, Ohio, at the same time! > > Great chance to hear and meet two fine trombone players! > > Denny Seifried > Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra > Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 03:48:35 +0000 From: Daniel Pliskin Subject: Re: oral cavity questions >>A trombone extends from about 9 feet long to 12 feet long. And the pedal >>tone wavelengths that a trombone produces are actually twice that long. >>My mouth is about 4 inches wide. >>They'd be frequencies up around 3300 Hz. >1) Timbre is all about overtones. The overtones are all shorter than the >fundamental, and some of them are very short indeed. At 3300 Hz, minimum, the tonal contribution of your mouth would be a very minor scratchy sound, at the most. Remember that telephones don't produce anything hear 3300 Hz. It's pretty far up there. >2) You don't need a standing wave to produce sound. You can have a stream >of transients that sum up to the total acoustic effect. Yes, but unless you're growling, there are no transients. DanP _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 15 Jan 2003 to 16 Jan 2003 (#2003-16) ****************************************************************