Subject: TROMBONE-L Digest - 8 Jan 2003 to 9 Jan 2003 (#2003-9) Date: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:00 AM From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: "Trombones and related issues forum." To: Recipients of TROMBONE-L digests There are 41 messages totalling 1740 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Galliard Sonata No. 1 Recording (2) 2. Cleaning my rotors (5) 3. Slide O Mix (14) 4. Anodized Aluminum (was Re: putting a bass trombone together) 5. Tuning and strings 6. JAZZ CAMP FOR ADULTS Announces its 19th Season 7. Brass 5-tet, was Re: Trombone 4-tets (2) 8. Urban legends (3) 9. Freezing Slide O Mix 10. Cleaning my rotors////disassemble ez 11. Wanted: Benge 190F (3) 12. Urban Legend - The Fly Story (2) 13. The Full Monty In Sweden 14. Slide Lubricants 15. What position is C on a Bb Trombone? 16. Army Blues (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:18:05 -0700 From: James Scott Subject: Re: Galliard Sonata No. 1 Recording Jeff Reynolds (LA Philharmonic Bass Trombone) has a recording of Galliard Sonata #1 on his recording - "The Big Trombone" on Crystal Records. If this one is out of print, check Doug Yeo's web-site for his comprehensive list of bass trombone recordings. Jim Scott NMHSTrombonePlyr wrote: > > Does anybody know of a place where I can get a recording of the Galliard > Sonata No. 1, in the Six Sonatas series? > > Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:56:27 -0700 From: Mike Subject: Re: Cleaning my rotors The Edwards website has the best description on how to take apart the Thayer valves if that's the kind of valve you have. Otherwise you really shouldn't attempt it unless you really know what you are doing IMHO. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "john burton" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:41 PM Subject: [TBN-L] Cleaning my rotors > (No .. Not brakes on the car)... > > While looking thru my old "the art of Trombone playing" I found that > author Edward Kleinhammer suggests cleaning the rotors on the trombone > from time to time. > > I've never done that, and I'm not sure I relish the thought of taking a > rotor apart to clean/lube it, much less the TWO of 'em on my Bach > 50B3... > > So like any of you pros got suggestions on how I should care for the > rotors on this fine old horn? I've been taking it into the shower with > me from time to time, running hotish warm water thru it 'til the water > comes out clean. > > All this talk of slide lube, but none about the other end of the horn.. > > Ideas, help? > > --==jb==-- > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:43:18 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Slide O Mix From: "Keith Marr" > So SOM works on the slide. Has anyone tried SOB? No, nor S&M. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:50:07 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Cleaning my rotors From: "john burton" > While looking thru my old "the art of Trombone playing" I found that > author Edward Kleinhammer suggests cleaning the rotors on the trombone > from time to time. > > I've never done that, and I'm not sure I relish the thought of taking a > rotor apart to clean/lube it, much less the TWO of 'em on my Bach > 50B3... Had my TR181 now for more than 20 years. Never had the valves out of their casings. Never mess with anything I don't understand. Can't remember when I lubed them last either. Seem to work OK. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:30:14 EST From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Anodized Aluminum (was Re: putting a bass trombone together) Mike, I describe myself as a born again trombonist (began again one year ago after a thirty year break), and there are quite a few of us on the list... Welcome :-) Steve C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:41:06 EST From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tuning and strings In a message dated 08/01/03 18:55:43 GMT Standard Time, richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL writes: > Is it just really really hard to play violin, or > do they not take it seriously, or (thinking out loud) is there something > that makes it inherently hard to hear pitch in that range for them? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++===== One thing that occurs to me is that in a larger section, they don't have a single reference point and if each of their internal reference points is different (which it could easily be), they are going to be in trouble. In my brass playing experience, I remember that one strong player with a good sense of intonation can help the whole band get in the groove and so they reinforce rather than undermine each other. Steve C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:17:47 -0500 From: Byron Siegal Subject: JAZZ CAMP FOR ADULTS Announces its 19th Season Jazz Vermont, the 5 1/2 day Band Camp for Grownups announces its 19th = season at the 5 star Killington Grand Resort in Killington, Vt. July = 20-25th, 2003. Come join one of our 6 bands and wail the week away playing the music of = Basie, Ellington, Marsalis, Gillespie, Kenton, McConnell and more. First time trombonists SAVE $$ Check out our website for this special = offer! Byron Siegal, Director Jazz Vermont www.jazzcamp.com jazzvermont@attbi.com (800)242-8785 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:21:16 -0500 From: "Avery, Ray (232)" Subject: Re: Cleaning my rotors Good question. The standard rotor on my 5 year old Yamaha was getting sticky and noisy. I used to lube it about once a month or two. Had it serviced at my local Yamaha dealer (musical instruments, not motorcycles) last summer. The tech replaced some worn out parts lubed it well and adjusted. Now it seems I have to add oil at least every two weeks or else is starts to clank. Ray Avery Director, Human Resources Harvard Custom Manufacturing, Inc. 607-687-7669 -----Original Message----- From: john burton [mailto:john.burton@SANDBOX.DYNIP.COM] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:42 PM To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: [TBN-L] Cleaning my rotors (No .. Not brakes on the car)... While looking thru my old "the art of Trombone playing" I found that author Edward Kleinhammer suggests cleaning the rotors on the trombone from time to time. I've never done that, and I'm not sure I relish the thought of taking a rotor apart to clean/lube it, much less the TWO of 'em on my Bach 50B3... So like any of you pros got suggestions on how I should care for the rotors on this fine old horn? I've been taking it into the shower with me from time to time, running hotish warm water thru it 'til the water comes out clean. All this talk of slide lube, but none about the other end of the horn.. Ideas, help? --==jb==-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:22:55 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Slide O Mix No S&M either? Hmm. I have seen leather trombone accessories on websites so the fetish guys are catered for . . . 'spect you get them sent under plain cover. ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide O Mix > From: "Keith Marr" > > > So SOM works on the slide. Has anyone tried SOB? > > No, nor S&M. > > A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:01:21 -0800 From: David Guion Subject: Re: Brass 5-tet, was Re: Trombone 4-tets Wes Hopper wrote, > >Has there been a quality, enjoyable piece written for brass quintet in the >last 40 years (or ever for that matter)? Well, yes, but for whom were they >written. Certainly not for Jo Public, they were written for John Trombone. > >Being a friend of David Ohanian and having had this conversation several >times...CB played music people liked to listen to. They did not play Etler or >Taxin for a very good reason - it does not appeal to the masses. Believe it >or not, most people will leave a concert by anyone if they are beaten over >the head with such noise. I happen to love this music, but I am a brass >player. It is true that they used part of their program to introduce "serious >music" - Armenian Scenes or Suite from the Monteregian Hills (SP?) or Ewald. >These are staples of brass quintet lit. even today, but are not in the same >style as Jan Bach or Tom Pearsaon. > >So...would you rather have people know what a brass quintet is and consider >it something fun and enjoyable or have them think..."what is that" and "what >are those things they are playing?" > Sorry to quote the whole post, but there is no good way to edit it. Has there ever been an enjoyable brass quintet piece? Wes mentions a few. I mentioned the Arnold in my earlier post. That one must be considered enjoyable by general audiences; I heard it on classical radio once. As I don't play in a quintet, I don't claim to know the repertoire well, but Wes's point that much of it just plain sounds ugly to most audiences is well taken. The sad fact is that the prevailing intellectual climate of the post-World War II decades made it impossible for composers to write anything but ugly music if they wanted to be taken seriously by academics and critics. I suspect that future generations will investigate post-war composers (don't ask me to name any off hand) who bucked the tide and were scorned and ignored. There will probably be some fine music there. Anything for brass? I wouldn't bet the ranch on it. Lately, however, a new generation of composers on both sides of the Atlantic (and for all I know, both sides of the Pacific) are once again writing music that connects with the public. Could some of our commercially successful brass quintets approach composers as well known and respected as Phillip Glass or Michael Torke and commission a crowd pleaser? And then really promote it? Who is going to take a leadership role to provide us with playable, listenable music by composers whom the audience might have actually heard of? -- *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* David Guion Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? david@trombone.org *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:05:21 -0800 From: David Guion Subject: Re: Galliard Sonata No. 1 Recording >Does anybody know of a place where I can get a recording of the Galliard >Sonata No. 1, in the Six Sonatas series? > >Matthew > Those sonatas were originally written for bassoon, so don't forget to look for recordings of bassoonists. If you are a college student, ask the bassoon teacher at your school for suggestions. (Otherwise, ask the bassoon teacher at the nearest college or university music department!) -- *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* David Guion Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? david@trombone.org *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:10:52 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Slide O Mix I already gave my answer here, but I wanted to add that I used Slide-O-Mix on my Yamerha Bass for 7 years - no problems at all. Love it, with or without water... Does anyone spray their slides after slide-o-mixing? Tom Klaber told me not to, and I dutifully stopped, and basically noticed no difference. J.c. Sherman > Once again, I apologize for coming in in the middle of a thread but I had to > put in my 2 cents worth. I've used Slide O Mix for a number of years now > with no problems. Although it works fine, I'm not convinced it's any better > than the Pond's Cold Cream and water I used to use. Pond's lasts longer > and, besides, it's good for your complexion:) It has to be Cold Cream > though, not the Dry Skin Cream -- that has lanolin in it and will gum up the > slide. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike [mailto:blue_trombone@INTERFOLD.COM] > Sent: January 08, 2003 4:07 PM > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide O Mix > > Thank you for your response. The reason I was asking is because Christian > Greigo from Edwards claims that Slide O MIx crystallizes the inner slide > tube over time and he recommends that trombonists use Trombotine mixed with > pledge. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Emil & Cynthia Orth > To: Michael Cryer ; TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide O Mix > > > Michael. I have used SOM on all three of my horns for almost three years > and have not ever had a bit of trouble. I usually clean about once a month > with Dawn soap, dry out and reapply SOM. Is usually good for at least three > gigs. > Emil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:17:49 +0000 From: "J.c. Sherman" Subject: Re: Cleaning my rotors Sounds like you may be WAY overdue for a repair tech to take these apart and REALLY clean them, if they've never been disassembled. Most repair tech I know (including me) would be happy to teach you how to remove your rotors for cleaning. It's a lot easier to teach this in person than in words. You're in luck too - Bach rotors tend to be one of the easiest makes to take apart, as they are built (generally) very well. J.c. Sherman > (No .. Not brakes on the car)... > > While looking thru my old "the art of Trombone playing" I found that > author Edward Kleinhammer suggests cleaning the rotors on the trombone > from time to time. > > I've never done that, and I'm not sure I relish the thought of taking a > rotor apart to clean/lube it, much less the TWO of 'em on my Bach > 50B3... > > So like any of you pros got suggestions on how I should care for the > rotors on this fine old horn? I've been taking it into the shower with > me from time to time, running hotish warm water thru it 'til the water > comes out clean. > > All this talk of slide lube, but none about the other end of the horn.. > > Ideas, help? > > --==jb==-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:44:40 -0700 From: Dennis Clason Subject: Re: Slide O Mix > Thank you for your response. The reason I was asking is because > Christian Greigo from Edwards claims that Slide O MIx > crystallizes the inner slide tube over time and he recommends > that trombonists use Trombotine mixed with pledge. Say what? Slide-O-Mix (SoM) is a silicone oil (little bottle) and a soap solution (big bottle). I seem to recall reading somewhere that the soap is a whale oil soap. If that's the case, SoM is not good for whales. Silicone coatings have been used for decades on moving metal parts without any adverse effects. Soap solutions have been used for centuries. Besides, the inner slides are a brass alloy, or so Edwards claims. If that's the case, they're already crystallized (face-centered cubes, if I remember my chemistry correctly). Now, it's entirely possible that if misapplied, the silicone might crystallize on the inner slide. But that should clean right up with Brasso. Like Emil, I've used SoM on various instruments for a long time, and not noticed any trouble. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:16:28 -0500 From: Jim Gayfer Subject: Urban legends Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:51:32 -0000 From: Keith Marr > Subject: Re: What position is C on a Bb Trombone? Keith, Maybe this is a trombone version of an urban legend. How many more are out there? How does that story go about the trombonist who killed the player in front of him when the mute flew out of his horn during a loud passage? Jim Gayfer Trombone/baritone NorthWinds Brass Quintet Ottawa, ON (613) 523-4285 ----- Original Message ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:51:32 -0000 From: Keith Marr > Subject: Re: What position is C on a Bb Trombone? That's interesting! Teddy Roderman tells that story? Denis Wick tells the exact same story in his book Trombone Technique. Reminds me of the story of the stuffed trout in the bar in Three Men in a Boat. Every local coming into the pub claims he caught it and tells the story of landing it in great detail. Then one day the cabinet gets knocked over the trout smashes in a million pieces - turns out to be porcelain! Seems like we're all free to talk about that student that came to us complaining about no high D on their trombone. So just remember how to tell the story. You took the horn off the student and played high D several times, after which he never had a problem again. Note that it has to be a high D or higher, middle Bb doesn't impress quite so much. ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:21:54 EST From: SteveInside@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Freezing Slide O Mix In a message dated 09/01/03 14:43:19 GMT Standard Time, dclason@NMSU.EDU writes: > Slide-O-Mix (SoM) is a silicone oil (little bottle) and a soap > solution (big bottle). I seem to recall reading somewhere > that the soap is a whale oil soap. *********************************************************** Is the answer to the freezing water bottle problem hidden in there? Using screen wash solution as in a car? Steve C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:08:19 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Cleaning my rotors////disassemble ez the rotors come apart pretty ez out the side with screw on/off cap if you can restring and do linkage adjustments etc and have some handiness you can probably take rotors out- basically the rotor looks like a round drum with axles sticking out on both sides these turn in bearings -when you remove the rotor cap you can see the axle turning ---on the long axle side a thingy goes on the shaft to hold linkage usually has a screw ----sometimes busted off -- this is one of the things that can mess up - you back that screw off a little -unscrew cap on other side - take string off --then gently tap that screw ---this will knock out the bearing cup -------take a look at those little file ---marks -knife looking cuts - these are to line up the timing chain and distrubutor with the spark plugs and vacuum tubes where the memory chip goes most of you guys ---forgedidabout it if you have trouble w twist off caps and figuring out elevators rotor cleaning ---better let the shop do it especially if they are old and crudded in but if you watch the mechanic beat them out really fast you might think you could do it ---------yeah sure --- --------------------- J.c. Sherman wrote: > Sounds like you may be WAY overdue for a repair tech to take these apart and > REALLY clean them, if they've never been disassembled. Most repair tech I know > (including me) would be happy to teach you how to remove your rotors for > cleaning. It's a lot easier to teach this in person than in words. > > You're in luck too - Bach rotors tend to be one of the easiest makes to take > apart, as they are built (generally) very well. > > J.c. Sherman > > (No .. Not brakes on the car)... > > > > While looking thru my old "the art of Trombone playing" I found that > > author Edward Kleinhammer suggests cleaning the rotors on the trombone > > from time to time. > > > > I've never done that, and I'm not sure I relish the thought of taking a > > rotor apart to clean/lube it, much less the TWO of 'em on my Bach > > 50B3... > > > > So like any of you pros got suggestions on how I should care for the > > rotors on this fine old horn? I've been taking it into the shower with > > me from time to time, running hotish warm water thru it 'til the water > > comes out clean. > > > > All this talk of slide lube, but none about the other end of the horn.. > > > > Ideas, help? > > > > --==jb==-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:17:59 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Slide O Mix well this might be because the original secret v-2 formula was made with duterium - heavy water - left over in large cisterns in bavaria this aged d2o was thought to have greater moluleculear cohiveshiveness and lubricity in applied shear effects in microspherical long chain saponified olefins ---- for some reason edwards had discovered that their alloys contained a small amount of an isotope that in the presence of trace amounts of d2o emmited gamma rays so the crystallization story was fabricated as a coverup Dennis Clason wrote: > > Thank you for your response. The reason I was asking is because > > Christian Greigo from Edwards claims that Slide O MIx > > crystallizes the inner slide tube over time and he recommends > > that trombonists use Trombotine mixed with pledge. > > Say what? > > Slide-O-Mix (SoM) is a silicone oil (little bottle) and a soap > solution (big bottle). I seem to recall reading somewhere > that the soap is a whale oil soap. If that's the case, > SoM is not good for whales. Silicone coatings have been > used for decades on moving metal parts without any adverse > effects. Soap solutions have been used for centuries. > > Besides, the inner slides are a brass alloy, or so Edwards > claims. If that's the case, they're already crystallized > (face-centered cubes, if I remember my chemistry correctly). > > Now, it's entirely possible that if misapplied, the silicone > might crystallize on the inner slide. But that should clean > right up with Brasso. Like Emil, I've used SoM on various > instruments for a long time, and not noticed any trouble. > > Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:54:12 -0600 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Subject: Re: Slide O Mix "D.J. Kennedy" wrote: > well this might be because the original secret v-2 formula > was made with duterium - heavy water - > left over in large cisterns in bavaria > this aged d2o was thought to have greater moluleculear > cohiveshiveness > and lubricity in applied shear effects in microspherical long > chain > saponified olefins ---- > for some reason edwards had discovered that their alloys > contained a small > amount of an isotope that in the presence of trace amounts of d2o > emmited gamma rays > so the crystallization story was fabricated as a coverup > Is it just me, or does this make way more sense than anything else D.J. has ever said before? Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:09:53 +0000 From: rkeilitz@ATT.NET Subject: Wanted: Benge 190F Does ANYBODY have a Benge 190F that they would like to sell? I'm not as concerned about cosmetics as I am about the action of the slide and rotor. The slide must be good enough to be used in collegiate level work...or at least good enough to be brought into playable condition by sending it to the Slide Dr.. The slide must show no signs of wear on the inner tubes, or have any corrosion. Email me off-list if you have something that may be of interest. Please include pictures if you have any, as well as pricing information. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:31:12 EST From: Art Triggs Subject: Re: Slide O Mix Everything DJ sez makes sense, you just have to think about it more - he's just playin' on some different changes is all.;-0 Art >"D.J. Kennedy" wrote: > >> well this might be because the original secret v-2 formula >> was made with duterium - heavy water - >> left over in large cisterns in bavaria >> this aged d2o was thought to have greater moluleculear >> cohiveshiveness >> and lubricity in applied shear effects in microspherical long >> chain >> saponified olefins ---- >> for some reason edwards had discovered that their alloys >> contained a small >> amount of an isotope that in the presence of trace amounts of d2o >> emmited gamma rays >> so the crystallization story was fabricated as a coverup >> > >Is it just me, or does this make way more sense than anything else D.J. >has ever said before? > >Eric > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:42:09 -0600 From: Jeff Oien Subject: Re: Slide O Mix > well this might be because the original secret v-2 formula > was made with duterium - heavy water - > left over in large cisterns in bavaria > this aged d2o was thought to have greater moluleculear > cohiveshiveness > and lubricity in applied shear effects in microspherical long > chain > saponified olefins ---- > for some reason edwards had discovered that their alloys > contained a small > amount of an isotope that in the presence of trace amounts of d2o > emmited gamma rays > so the crystallization story was fabricated as a coverup DJ that was some of your finest work. And this has me thinking. Gamma rays? Green slime in trombone? Somehow the Incredible Hulk fits into this but I'm not sure how yet. Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:46:40 -0500 From: Chuck De Paolo Subject: Urban Legend - The Fly Story Alas, I just had a longtime Urban Trombone Legend dispelled the other day. When I was in grad school, a rumor was circulating that Joe Alessi used to kill flies in his practice room at Curtis by playing loud at them. The legend never described the note played nor the method used, just that he could kill them by playing at them. Hmm. Being the curious and somewhat scientific type, I set about to duplicate the results of this "discovery." In a practice room I found I could stun a fly into mindless circling on the floor and disable its ability to fly by giving it a few very sharply articulated D's (D4 - a whole step above middle C). No other note seemed to work. BTW, I was using a Bach 50B3O bass and a Bach 42 tenor in my "experiments," playing the D in 4th position. So, the other day Mike, a colleague here at Hickey's, had a lesson with Joe in New York. I had related this story to Mike a while back, and he in turn asked Joe about the fly story while packing up after the lesson. Mr. Alessi not only denied it, he said he never heard the story, although he thought it was humorous. He also stated that there were quite a few rumors out there about him of which he had no idea of the origin. Oh well, another fabulous (and truly believable) myth wiped out. FWIW In Music, ---Charles De Paolo General Manager & Webmaster Hickey's Music Center 104 Adams Street Ithaca, NY 14850 607.272.8262 (Phone) 607.272.2203 (Fax) chuck@hickeys.com (E-Mail) http://www.hickeys.com (Website) http://www.weather.com/weather/local/14850 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:51:35 -0600 From: "D.J. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Slide O Mix yeah i have a very small quantity of --top secret heavy formula from the land of wagner -developed by a research chemist..bass bone ///tuba//sousaphone /////alphorn player ----reiner deponte - the biggest obstacle to sending samples is finding the little jugs to put the joy juice into reiners formula is very syrupy and a couple of times as thick as slido --which sometimes gets thin and dribbles everywhere except the inner slide reiner calls his --formula rhinegold !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [supersnot ---superslime --gooberlube --hum maybe in regionan markets] -----anyway im still trying to get cones and samples to art triggs dan pilskin eric at mays music -- and toss in extra book 1 boptism duos ------i find reiners formula to work very good -but it likes fresh silicone application otherwise its like sooper glue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! does anybody use silicone oil that is use in model car racing there seems to be several weights available spray silicone -in large aerosol cans seems to be mostly propellent and volitile dessicant fluid -after evaporation -only a thin amount of silicone remains Jeff Oien wrote: > > well this might be because the original secret v-2 formula > > was made with duterium - heavy water - > > left over in large cisterns in bavaria > > this aged d2o was thought to have greater moluleculear > > cohiveshiveness > > and lubricity in applied shear effects in microspherical long > > chain > > saponified olefins ---- > > for some reason edwards had discovered that their alloys > > contained a small > > amount of an isotope that in the presence of trace amounts of d2o > > emmited gamma rays > > so the crystallization story was fabricated as a coverup > > DJ that was some of your finest work. > > And this has me thinking. Gamma rays? Green slime in trombone? > Somehow the Incredible Hulk fits into this but I'm not sure how yet. > Jeff Oien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:31:17 -0700 From: Mike Subject: Re: Wanted: Benge 190F The slide dr. can restore almost any slide regardless of the condition. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:09 AM Subject: [TBN-L] Wanted: Benge 190F > Does ANYBODY have a Benge 190F that they would like to sell? I'm not as > concerned about cosmetics as I am about the action of the slide and rotor. The > slide must be good enough to be used in collegiate level work...or at least > good enough to be brought into playable condition by sending it to the Slide > Dr.. The slide must show no signs of wear on the inner tubes, or have any > corrosion. > > Email me off-list if you have something that may be of interest. Please > include pictures if you have any, as well as pricing information. > > Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:02:25 -0500 From: Walter Barrett Subject: Re: Urban Legend - The Fly Story Thus spake, not Zarathustra, but Chuck De Paolo > Alas, I just had a longtime Urban Trombone Legend dispelled the other day. > > When I was in grad school, a rumor was circulating that Joe Alessi used to > kill flies in his practice room at Curtis by playing loud at them. The > legend never described the note played nor the method used, just that he > could kill them by playing at them. > > Hmm. > > Being the curious and somewhat scientific type, I set about to duplicate the > results of this "discovery." In a practice room I found I could stun a fly > into mindless circling on the floor and disable its ability to fly by giving > it a few very sharply articulated D's (D4 - a whole step above middle C). > No other note seemed to work. BTW, I was using a Bach 50B3O bass and a Bach > 42 tenor in my "experiments," playing the D in 4th position. > > So, the other day Mike, a colleague here at Hickey's, had a lesson with Joe > in New York. I had related this story to Mike a while back, and he in turn > asked Joe about the fly story while packing up after the lesson. Mr. Alessi > not only denied it, he said he never heard the story, although he thought it > was humorous. He also stated that there were quite a few rumors out there > about him of which he had no idea of the origin. > > Oh well, another fabulous (and truly believable) myth wiped out. > > FWIW > > In Music, > ---Charles De Paolo > General Manager & Webmaster Well, if anybody could kill a fly like that, it'd be Gary Valente. Walter Barrett "Can placebos cause side effects? If so, are the side effects real?" -George Carlin Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:53:26 -0000 From: Keith Marr Subject: Re: Urban legends Good point Jim! Wasn't there also something about a guy killing the trumpet player in front with his slide during marching display as well. Maybe someone should collect these legends together as The Trombotine Book of Urban Legends. We could include Joe Alessi killing flies . . . ------------------------ Keith in Bb/F/D www.allthingsmusic.co.uk/entertainers/keith.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gayfer Maybe this is a trombone version of an urban legend. How many more are out there? How does that story go about the trombonist who killed the player in front of him when the mute flew out of his horn during a loud passage? ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Marr That's interesting! Teddy Roderman tells that story? Denis Wick tells the exact same story in his book Trombone Technique. Reminds me of the story of the stuffed trout in the bar Seems like we're all free to talk about that student that came to us ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:05:06 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Slide O Mix From: "Dennis Clason" > I seem to recall reading somewhere > that the soap is a whale oil soap. Whale, oil be danged! A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:15:49 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: Slide O Mix From: "Art Triggs" Re: DJ's > >> well this might be because the original secret v-2 formula > >> was made with duterium - heavy water - > >> left over in large cisterns in bavaria > >> this aged d2o ........... > Everything DJ sez makes sense, you just have to think about it more - he's just > playin' on some different changes is all.;-0 Ah now I get it, v-2 and d2o are the changes. Nice! Wot'za tune? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:23:24 -0000 From: Adrian Drover Subject: Re: The Full Monty In Sweden Hey, having to appear on stage and memorize the music is not so bad. Just wait till they ask the band to strip too. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:44:52 EST From: Art Triggs Subject: Re: Slide O Mix uh......maybe a 12 tone version of Handels Watermusic.....?????? >Ah now I get it, v-2 and d2o are the changes. Nice! Wot'za tune? > >A. > >Adrian Drover >ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk >Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:13:03 -0600 From: Fred Hudson Subject: Re: Slide Lubricants Ah switched to Sudden Comfort yeahs ago ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat & Jo McFarland" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide Lubricants > I also recently switched from SOM to Rapid Comfort. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Avery, Ray (232)" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:39 AM > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide Lubricants > > > > Rapid Comfort by SOM. Was using superslick, but had to replace it daily > on > > my 5 year old Yamaha bass. Rapid Comfort lasts for days. > > > > Ray Avery > > Director, Human Resources > > Harvard Custom Manufacturing, Inc. > > 607-687-7669 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: NMHSTrombonePlyr [mailto:NMHSTrombonePlyr@DDCI.NET] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:22 AM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > Subject: [TBN-L] Slide Lubricants > > > > > > What kinds of slide lubricants do ya'll prefer? I thought this might > > start up an interesting conversation. > > > > Matthew > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:10:53 +0100 From: Simon Bailey Subject: Re: Urban legends On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 19:53, Keith Marr wrote: > Good point Jim! Wasn't there also something about a guy killing the trumpet > player in front with his slide during marching display as well. Maybe > someone should collect these legends together as The Trombotine Book of > Urban Legends. We could include Joe Alessi killing flies . . . that sounds like me. he didn't die. *g* [background: a trumpet player in front of me stopped while we were marching just as i was stepping forward and moving out to 6th position in a fast run. i wasn't paying attention as i was sight reading the march, and his lumbar region got slightly bruised...] [my slide didn't bend though] regards, the mad anglo-austrian... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:34 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: What position is C on a Bb Trombone? Adrian, --- Adrian Drover wrote: > > From: "Tom Izzo" > > > > But the higher up the harmonic series the more > > positions are available. Just a scant perfect 4th > up > > (F concert) can be played in EVERY position. > > Gee, my Bach's must all be made incorrectly then, I get high F in all 421 positions! Tom > According to my calculations Tom, there are only SIX > positions on which you > can play high F on an open Bb tenor 'bone, utilizing > 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, > 16th and 17th harmonics. There are an infinite > number of positions where F > will NOT sound naturally. > > Pedantically Yours, A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > > ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:37:18 -0600 From: "Isaac J. Roorda" Subject: Re: Wanted: Benge 190F Yes, but not all slide work falls under his general "Slide Setup" service, which I assume is what Bob meant. Isaac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Wanted: Benge 190F > The slide dr. can restore almost any slide regardless of the condition. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:09 AM > Subject: [TBN-L] Wanted: Benge 190F > > > > Does ANYBODY have a Benge 190F that they would like to sell? I'm not as > > concerned about cosmetics as I am about the action of the slide and rotor. > The > > slide must be good enough to be used in collegiate level work...or at > least > > good enough to be brought into playable condition by sending it to the > Slide > > Dr.. The slide must show no signs of wear on the inner tubes, or have any > > corrosion. > > > > Email me off-list if you have something that may be of interest. Please > > include pictures if you have any, as well as pricing information. > > > > Bob > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:17:35 -0800 From: Tom Izzo Subject: Re: Brass 5-tet, was Re: Trombone 4-tets Generally I agree with most of what you post, Gabe, but I find fault with you on the Brass Quintet ideas. > > I guess I'll be a wag (I'm not sure what that means, > actually), and make the distinction between a > generic > quintet of brass instruments and a "Brass Quintet" > of the > specific instrumentation that you would find on an > artist > management roster. > > And I think my original point is still valid: that > the > current state of affairs, in which, among other > important > things, most artist managers, at least in the US, > have a > brass quintet on their roster, came about because of > the > strenuous efforts of specific brass quintets, > including the > Philip Jones Brass Ensemble (which was a 5-piece > group > before it was 10), the New York Brass Quintet, the > American > Brass Quintet (which of course, uses the superior > instrumentation ;) of bass trombone on the bottom), > and > maybe some others that I don't really know about. > They > created a repertoire and generated an audience, > which the > Canadian Brass and Empire Brass expanded quite a > bit. > I think by "definition" a brass "quintet" is 5 brass "voices" (parts). I say voices, because MOST Brass quintets, yes even including the CB, use doubles. Some modern traditions label "standard BQ as 2 Trumpets, Horn, Trombone, Tuba, while others use 2 Trombones, sans Tuba. Just as most of us Trombonists double on Euph or Tuba, so we do this in our quintets as well. CB use Piccolo, Sopranino, & Soprano Trumpets, Cornets, & Flugels. Trombone doubles Euph. I personally don't like to play Bass Trombone on Tuba parts, nor Tuba on Bass Trombone parts. I double/triple/quadruple/etc. My own quintet is a roster of multi-instrumentalists (yes even including our subs). Why? Because we consider ourselves authenticionists. If the composer/arranger writes for 2 Trumpets, Horn, Tenor Trb, Bass Trb, we do that. But if the parts say Cornet instead of Trumpet & Euphonium on the bottom, we do that as well. Alan Hovhaness wrote a "Brass Quintet" for 4 Bb Trumpets & Trombone. Because of this instrumentation, would you NOT consider this Brass Quintet piece? (Yes this piece is in our repetoire as well). Now I admit that to fill my quintet I had to look a little further for quality players on multiple instruments, but it works. (& we've been performing together since 1968). When I see a piece where the bottom part yes "Bass Trombone OR Tuba", that's different. If it's a Baroque or Classical work, I tend to play it on Bass Trombone, if it's a Romantic or modern piece, I tend to play those on Tuba. Why? Usually sounds more appropriate for the given period. We play Jazz too, same 5 people. My arrangements tend to favor 5 different instruments. I often write for Flugel on the 2nd part, Tuba on the bottom. Or I'll write for 5 Trumpets (1 Piccolo, 2 Sopranos, 2 Basses/or 2 Sopranos, 1 Alto, 2 Basses) With a variaing instrumental palette both the players & the audience stay more focused. And sometimes we'll use non Brass instruments in the group as well. (Flute, Saxes, Recorders, String or Elect Bass, Drums, Keyboards, Timpani, Guitars--The same 5 people!) This tends to make a group much more versatile in different functions. I've done weddings & receptions for the same couple same day, same 5 people, vastly different repetoire. For the record our Book I (note I don't call it Trumpet 1) calls for: Piccolo Trumpet Sopranino Trumpet (F, Eb, D etc) Soprano Trumpet (C, Bb, etc) Cornets (Eb & Bb) Flugelhorn Soprano Trombone Percussion Book 2 calls for Sopranino Trumpets (F, Eb, D, etc) Soprano Trumpet (C, Bb, etc) Cornets (Eb, C, Bb) Soprano Trombone Flugehorn Alto Sax Piano Timpani Percussion Book 3 Piccolo Trumpet Soprano Trumpet (C & Bb) Alto Trumpet (F) Cornets (C & Bb) Flugelhorn Alto (Eb) Horn F Horn Soprano,Alto, Tenor & Bari Saxes Soprano Trombone Tenor Trombone Baritone Horn Organ Piano Percussion (Jim has even played Bassoon in the group on the job once!) Book 4 Bass Trumpet Tenor Trombones *** Baritone Horn Euphonuum Trombonium Harmonica Percussion Book 5 Soprano Trumpet (C & Bb) Bass Trumpet Alto Trombone Tenor Trombones *** Bass Trombone Contrabass Trombone Euphonium Tenor Tuba Bass Tuba String Bass Electric Bass Flute (Sop & Alto) Recorders Soprano Sax Digital Sax Drums (Kit) Timpani Percussion Note I listed Tenor Trombones with*** We also use the appropriate-to-the-music Tenors. For Baroque & Jazz things we will NOT use our .547 bore Tenors [I'll let you guess who our book 5 is played by] :-) Tom ===== Tom Izzo Principal Trombonist, Bristol Renaissance Faire Bass Trombonist, West Suburban Symphony Orchestra Alto/Tenor/Bass/Contrabass Trombones, Tubas, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, Electric Bass, Percussion http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ (630) 983-1985 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:08:33 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: Cleaning my rotors Thayers are easy, rotors a little less than easy (though not terribly hard). I agree with J.C.; take 'em to a good technician and have them cleaned. If you feel adventursome, read the maintenance section of Reginald Fink's, "The Trombonists Handbook" (Accura Music). He even has pictures. :-) A 50B3 shouldn't bee too bad because of mechanical linkages. In the day of the string linkage, it was more of a big production. Chris Dearth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:56 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Cleaning my rotors > The Edwards website has the best description on how to take apart the > Thayer valves if that's the kind of valve you have. Otherwise you really > shouldn't attempt it unless you really know what you are doing IMHO. > > Mike > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john burton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:41 PM > Subject: [TBN-L] Cleaning my rotors > > > > (No .. Not brakes on the car)... > > > > While looking thru my old "the art of Trombone playing" I found that > > author Edward Kleinhammer suggests cleaning the rotors on the trombone > > from time to time. > > > > I've never done that, and I'm not sure I relish the thought of taking a > > rotor apart to clean/lube it, much less the TWO of 'em on my Bach > > 50B3... > > > > So like any of you pros got suggestions on how I should care for the > > rotors on this fine old horn? I've been taking it into the shower with > > me from time to time, running hotish warm water thru it 'til the water > > comes out clean. > > > > All this talk of slide lube, but none about the other end of the horn.. > > > > Ideas, help? > > > > --==jb==-- > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:13:30 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: Slide O Mix The reasoning is that the water 'rinses' (this is the only term I can think of) off the Slide-O-Mix. I've heard others talk about that, though I think that thought is generally splitting hairs. I still find situations where a little agua on the slide is nice with Slide-O-Mix. Chris Dearth ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.c. Sherman" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide O Mix > I already gave my answer here, but I wanted to add that I used Slide-O-Mix on > my Yamerha Bass for 7 years - no problems at all. Love it, with or without > water... > > Does anyone spray their slides after slide-o-mixing? Tom Klaber told me not > to, and I dutifully stopped, and basically noticed no difference. > > J.c. Sherman > > Once again, I apologize for coming in in the middle of a thread but I had to > > put in my 2 cents worth. I've used Slide O Mix for a number of years now > > with no problems. Although it works fine, I'm not convinced it's any better > > than the Pond's Cold Cream and water I used to use. Pond's lasts longer > > and, besides, it's good for your complexion:) It has to be Cold Cream > > though, not the Dry Skin Cream -- that has lanolin in it and will gum up the > > slide. > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike [mailto:blue_trombone@INTERFOLD.COM] > > Sent: January 08, 2003 4:07 PM > > To: TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide O Mix > > > > Thank you for your response. The reason I was asking is because Christian > > Greigo from Edwards claims that Slide O MIx crystallizes the inner slide > > tube over time and he recommends that trombonists use Trombotine mixed with > > pledge. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Emil & Cynthia Orth > > To: Michael Cryer ; TROMBONE-L@PO.MISSOURI.EDU > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:17 AM > > Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide O Mix > > > > > > Michael. I have used SOM on all three of my horns for almost three years > > and have not ever had a bit of trouble. I usually clean about once a month > > with Dawn soap, dry out and reapply SOM. Is usually good for at least three > > gigs. > > Emil > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:18:44 -0500 From: Chris Dearth Subject: Re: Slide O Mix And the problem with the gamma rays caused many a player to instantly gain super-human strength, turn a dark green, and to play things loudly and angrily as possible, finishing by smashing the horn over the nearest viola. Where is Dr. David Banner when you need him...:-) Chris Dearth ----- Original Message ----- From: "D.J. Kennedy" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [TBN-L] Slide O Mix > well this might be because the original secret v-2 formula > was made with duterium - heavy water - > left over in large cisterns in bavaria > this aged d2o was thought to have greater moluleculear > cohiveshiveness > and lubricity in applied shear effects in microspherical long > chain > saponified olefins ---- > for some reason edwards had discovered that their alloys > contained a small > amount of an isotope that in the presence of trace amounts of d2o > emmited gamma rays > so the crystallization story was fabricated as a coverup > > Dennis Clason wrote: > > > > Thank you for your response. The reason I was asking is because > > > Christian Greigo from Edwards claims that Slide O MIx > > > crystallizes the inner slide tube over time and he recommends > > > that trombonists use Trombotine mixed with pledge. > > > > Say what? > > > > Slide-O-Mix (SoM) is a silicone oil (little bottle) and a soap > > solution (big bottle). I seem to recall reading somewhere > > that the soap is a whale oil soap. If that's the case, > > SoM is not good for whales. Silicone coatings have been > > used for decades on moving metal parts without any adverse > > effects. Soap solutions have been used for centuries. > > > > Besides, the inner slides are a brass alloy, or so Edwards > > claims. If that's the case, they're already crystallized > > (face-centered cubes, if I remember my chemistry correctly). > > > > Now, it's entirely possible that if misapplied, the silicone > > might crystallize on the inner slide. But that should clean > > right up with Brasso. Like Emil, I've used SoM on various > > instruments for a long time, and not noticed any trouble. > > > > Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:28:01 -0600 From: Bart Roberts Subject: Army Blues Hello All, Was wondering if anyone knew which trombonist was leaving the Army Blues. The Online Trombone Journal posted the audition yesterday. Thanks Bart Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:38:13 -0800 From: Joshua Brown Subject: Re: Army Blues I'm not aware of an audition for the Blues. The only trombone audition for the Army band listed on their website is for the Ceremonial Band. http://www.army.mil/armyband/fr_vacancies.htm --- Bart Roberts wrote: > Hello All, > > Was wondering if anyone knew which trombonist was > leaving the Army > Blues. The Online Trombone Journal > posted the audition yesterday. > > Thanks > > Bart Roberts __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of TROMBONE-L Digest - 8 Jan 2003 to 9 Jan 2003 (#2003-9) *************************************************************