TROMBONE-L Digest 2325 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Text of Woodsan's message by Wayne Dyess 2) Re: List Monitor by Wayne Dyess 3) Re: Bending pitches by Wayne Dyess 4) Re: List Monitor by sabutin 5) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by Servo149@aol.com 6) The Bear by Wayne Dyess 7) Re: List Monitor by Wayne Dyess 8) RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) by Douglas Yeo 9) List monitor and the Elgar enigmas by Roger Hecht 10) RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) by Roger Hecht 11) RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) by Craig Parmerlee 12) RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) by "Edward Solomon" 13) RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by Joseph Green 14) Re: Bending pitches by Joseph Green 15) Memphis Symphony Opening by E P LUKAS 16) Chicago Civic Orchestra by "Brian Frederiksen" 17) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by Charles Perron 18) Bob Anderson on Stretching by David Fetter 19) Bill Hughes, trombonist with Basie by Dave Tall 20) Online Trombone Journal Classifieds Update - 3/11/2002 by Chris Waage 21) Re: Chicago Civic Orchestra by "Adrian Drover" 22) RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 23) RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by sabutin 24) Question probably already answered, but... by "Gary Maxwell" 25) Re: Question probably already answered, but... by Listmonitor Trombone-L 26) FW: NEW CD! by "Thomas Smee" 27) Re: Vegas by tom harris 28) Re: Chicago Civic Orchestra by "Fred Hudson" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:20 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: jeanvaljean@ntsource.com Cc: Trombone-L:; Subject: RE: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Someone wrote in saying they thought that Chris Waage is the List Monitor. Chris MAY have been the LM at one time, but we all know the list has changed in recent months. Perhaps the LM is not the same from day to day. Ever think of that? It's a busy list. I think the LM's anonymity is a good thing, so why don't we just continue to wonder about it (much like the SABUTIN discussion a few years ago) -- and move on to trombone discussions? Just my 2 cents... for what that's worth, Wayne The List Monitor has that right, and that is spelled out for anyone who subscribes to the list. I don't believe the current LM is the person who started this list, but I could be mistaken. The list was started by Eric Nicklas, and when his wife had a child a while ago the announcement was made by the LM in the third person. So I don't believe Eric is the current Monitor. That is correct, the List Monitor (LM) is NOT the List owner. Tom Could be wrong, though. -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:45:09 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: sabutin@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sam is right. I first came on the list when Sam was only known as Sabutin. I rather enjoyed his anonymity, too. It was fun to wonder who this guy was. But all I REALLY needed to know about the man was this: he KNOWS da trombone and he knows MUSIC! It really isn't important who Sabutin is, or who Sam Burtis is, as far as that goes. Read what he has to say. Learn from it. I certainly do. As for the List Monitor issue, I would rather NOT know. But I do like the fact that we have someone in charge, ready to take charge if anyone gets out of line, someone keeping the list running smoothly. It doesn't matter one iota WHO is doing that work. Just THANK THEM for doing it. "Nuff said. And by the way -- Slide-o-Mix is the best stuff I've EVER used. It has rejuvenated my tired old slides on more than one "axe". Gotta love that!!!! Frum Texas, Wayne At 7:12 AM -0500 3/10/02, sabutin wrote: Once again...please FUGGEDABOUDIT. What earthly difference does it make who the listmonitor is or isn't? He/she/it is doing an excellent job, as the several posts favorably comparing this list to many others will attest. I mean...first Bear Whatsisname (who has been on my automatic don't read list since his first vaguely paranoid post), now "Who's the listmonitor?" Spring MUST be coming...it's silly season right here in River City. (It's enough to make you yearn for another good old Slide-O-Mix debate.) Later... S. -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:53:21 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: "Adrian Drover" Cc: Trombone-L:; Subject: Re: Bending pitches Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Koala Woodwind???? How funny!!!!!! And you laugh? Well, wait a minute my friend. I wuz on da phone wit Bear for over an hour yesterday. Talk about fun. Hmmmmm. And I DID receive an envelope (no white powder though) with his "new" Sonata No. 2" with a dedication on it to me. Since YOU, Mr. Woodwind, didn't promise me that perk, I'll just have to just say "no" to your kind offer of that concerto. Go ahead and ban the trombone from future performances, if you like. I am also a pretty fair whistler and can play "Stars and Stripes" with my hands and knees. Seriously, I didn't mind the phone call yesterday. But it did have a tendency to run about as long as his e-mails, with a bit of a ramble to it as well. I'll say it one last time --- our List Monitor NEEDS his anonymity. :-) (and no -- it ain't ME, thank you very much). Wayne If you think that's bad, wait till you find a manila envelope in your mailbox containing my new concerto number two and five eighths for solo trombone in Db with massed bagpipe choir (originally scored for 3 Ab bassoons and motorbike). If you don't include it in your next concert and say nice things about it, I will be getting in touch with my private army of lawyers. They will delight in banning the trombone from all public performances internationally. This may mean a lot of extra work on my part, having to rescore all of my trombone repertoire to feature piccolo, oboe, Eb clarinet, violin, contrabassoon, double bass and Navajo nose pipe, but it will be well worth the effort if I can rid the world of a silly slide instrument that resembles a Swannee whistle with a brass mouthpiece. Getting sent and mental over you, Koala Woodwind. -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:04:54 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ---snip--- And by the way -- Slide-o-Mix is the best stuff I've EVER used. It has rejuvenated my tired old slides on more than one "axe". Gotta love that!!!! Frum Texas, Wayne ========================= I DIDN'T MEAN IT!!! I DIDN'T MEAN IT!!! S. ============ At 7:12 AM -0500 3/10/02, sabutin wrote: ---snip--- (It's enough to make you yearn for another good old Slide-O-Mix debate.) Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:05:43 EST From: Servo149@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <2d.19c73f0f.29bd0887@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What amazes me is that someone who's making threats like this is putting they're home address with the e-mails they're sending out. Some people just don't think things through. Tate Addis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:07:10 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: Trombone-L:; Subject: The Bear Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1196335261==_ma============" Bear, bear, bear. Just having a little fun. Trombone issue? I personally LOVED Sabutin's post regarding the high register. And usual, I saved it. Thanks SAM!!!!!! Wayne The Bear (hit DELETE now if you are offended by bar type humor) A bear walks into a bar in Billings, Montana and sits down. He bangs on the bar with his paw and demands a beer. The bartender approaches and says, "We don't serve beer to bears in bars in Billings." The bear, becoming angry, demands again that he be served a beer. The bartender tells him again, more forcefully, "We don't serve beer to belligerent bears in bars in Billings." The bear, very angry now, says, "If you don't serve me a beer, I'm going to eat that lady sitting at the end of the bar." The bartender says, "Sorry, we don't serve beer to belligerent, bully bears in bars in Billings." The bear goes to the end of the bar, and, as promised, eats the woman. He comes back to his seat and again demands a beer. The bartender states, "Sorry, we don't serve beer to belligerent, bully bears in bars in Billings who are on drugs." The bear says, "I'm NOT on drugs." .........You're gonna love this.......... (scroll down) The bartender says, "You are now. That was a barbitchyouate. -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:23:26 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: sabutin@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1196334286==_ma============" At 2:04 PM -0500 3/10/02, sabutin wrote: >>---snip--- >> >>And by the way -- Slide-o-Mix is the best stuff I've EVER used. It has rejuvenated my tired old slides on more than one "axe". Gotta love that!!!! >> >>Frum Texas, >>Wayne > > >========================= > > I DIDN'T MEAN IT!!! > > I DIDN'T MEAN IT!!! > > S. > >============ Oh, but I do. I do. Click here: I Am The Flag Sincerely and best wishes, Wayne > > >> >> >>At 7:12 AM -0500 3/10/02, sabutin wrote: > > >---snip--- > >>> >>> (It's enough to make you yearn for another good old Slide-O-Mix debate.) >>> >>> Later... >>> >>> S. >> >> -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:54:53 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 1:01 PM +0000 3/10/02, Edward Solomon wrote: Actually, the in-line double valve concept dates back to 1921: Ernst Dehmels' "new" contrabass trombone was designed to replace the BBb double-slided contrabass trombone with an F bass trombone equipped with valves to complete the range by adding the notes between low B and (pedal) F. This was later improved by Hans Kunitz in 1963 when Alexander of Mainz built the "Cimbasso" model based on his design. So it's not a new concept at all. It was just applied to the F bass trombone to make a bass/contrabass instrument and replace the older (true) contrabass in BBb. Right. The question I was asking was why did it take so long to implement the inline (or even double valve) concept to the Bflat bass trombone. It just seems curious that an idea which had been around for some time took 50+ years to find its way to the most frequently used bass trombone. The F bass and various contrabass trombones never caught on in the USA (notwithstanding people who might have periodically used them) for orchestra performance. The B flat bass trombone has been the standard for over 150 years here. Perhaps therein lies the rub - in the years before the internet, museum catalogs and rapid communication, players in the USA simply weren't aware of developments on instruments being made in Europe and other countries. Both Kleinhammer and Kahila told me they came to their "idea" of a double valve B flat bass trombone "cold" and that Bach (who Kleinhammer approached about the idea first, and was rebuffed), Holton and Reynolds had never thought of it. Perhaps it tells you more about the American way of thinking than anything else. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:54:52 -0500 From: Roger Hecht To: Subject: List monitor and the Elgar enigmas Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020310145418.00a59080@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It's hard for the Elgarian in me to miss the similarities between all this pondering over the identity of the List Monitor and the various riddles regarding Edward Elgar: 1) the identity of the enigma(s) in Enigma Variations; 2) Who is *** in the penultimate variation of EM 3) Who is implied by the elipses in the Violin Concerto; 4) What, if anything, did Elgar supposedly confess to Ernest Newman on the composer's deathbed? Elgarians have had a lot of fun and spent a lot time poring over these riddles. (And Elgar loved riddles.) All this LM stuff reminds me of this. Soon may follow the scholarly articles positing solutions. Then we'll know we have something. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:02:20 -0500 From: Roger Hecht To: Subject: RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020310150128.00a698a0@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1152346==_.ALT" At 02:54 PM 3/10/2002 -0500, Douglas Yeo wrote: Right. The question I was asking was why did it take so long to implement the inline (or even double valve) concept to the Bflat bass trombone. It just seems curious that an idea which had been around for some time took 50+ years to find its way to the most frequently used bass trombone. The F bass and various contrabass trombones never caught on in the USA (notwithstanding people who might have periodically used them) for orchestra performance. The B flat bass trombone has been the standard for over 150 years here. Perhaps therein lies the rub - in the years before the internet, museum catalogs and rapid communication, players in the USA simply weren't aware of developments on instruments being made in Europe and other countries. Both Kleinhammer and Kahila told me they came to their "idea" of a double valve B flat bass trombone "cold" and that Bach (who Kleinhammer approached about the idea first, and was rebuffed), Holton and Reynolds had never thought of it. Perhaps it tells you more about the American way of thinking than anything else. The last sentence explains it to me. Our way or the highway is very often the American way. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:33 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020310170423.0283c2e0@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:54 PM 3/10/2002 -0500, Douglas Yeo wrote: Right. The question I was asking was why did it take so long to implement the inline (or even double valve) concept to the Bflat bass trombone. It just seems curious that an idea which had been around for some time took 50+ years to find its way to the most frequently used bass trombone. ====== It seems it could have happened a little sooner. But maybe the players at the time didn't see a need. G and F basses were still in common use so the low register was covered. Those "big slide" horns aren't very practical for the more challenging technical passages that have gradually found their way into the literature. I'd say what pushed the inclusion of the second valve in Bb instruments was a realization that the F, G, and BBb horns just couldn't navigate some of the more difficult music. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:57:10 -0000 From: "Edward Solomon" To: "Trombone-L@Po.Missouri.Edu" Subject: RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug Yeo said: "Right. The question I was asking was why did it take so long to implement the inline (or even double valve) concept to the Bflat bass trombone. It just seems curious that an idea which had been around for some time took 50+ years to find its way to the most frequently used bass trombone." I was under the impression that the first in-line bass trombone was developed by Boosey & Hawkes in the 1970s under the auspices of Denis Wick. It does perhaps seem ludicrous that it took until then to happen, considering the Bb/F trombone has been in existence since 1839, but it has a lot to do with performance practice in the UK. Denis Wick's generation grew up with the G bass trombone (or G/D orchestrally speaking). There was little incentive to do anything about it, because the G/D was a perfectly adequate trombone at the time and was easily capable of descending down to AA (or AAb with a C slide in the valve attachment). The low B was not an issue at all. The Bb/F bass trombone didn't really take hold in the UK until the late 1950s/early 1960s and by the time the 1970s came, experience had told players that the distinct lack of a reliable low B was a catalyst for developing a new model of bass trombone. Hence the desire to design a new instrument that Denis Wick and B&H capitalised on. It was very popular, unsurprisingly, and probably consolidated the already strengthened position of the Bb/F bass trombone in the UK. Ray Premru, when interviewed for a book called "Orchestra" by Andre Previn, claimed that the Wick/B&H instrument was being widely copied in the USA at the time, which was in the 1970s, so I am not going to argue with him on that one. I think his voice is one of authority when it comes to playing bass trombone! __________________________________________ Edward Solomon British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:55:19 +0900 From: Joseph Green To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <3C8BE454.9DF@twics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ?I think the "Tah-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh" is a technique used by baroque trumpet players when they play in the range that gives them diatonic scales. I distinctly remember reading an article in Scientific American about the "rediscovery" of methods used by baroque trumpeters (April 1986, or was it the one in 1973?). One of the diagrams in that article clearly showed that what was going on behind the teeth (i.e. the shape and volume of the space behind the teeth) was very closely related to the vibration of the lips. Those on the list who know more than I do about the baroque trumpet, please correct me if I'm wrong. JG ++++++++ sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > > Hi all... > > > I originally posted this on the OTJ Forum, and thought I'd like to > share it w/the trombone-l as well. Any comments or questions, please > feel free...I am in (for me) fairly new territory, and would love > some input from others. > > ================ > > > Originally posted by stonebone: > > I use Charles Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities. With this book you > proceed through the intervals without tonguing anything. You must use > the force of your air column (via your diaphragm) while controlling > that column with your lips to produce the notes. This gives you great > practice at supporting high notes. The exercises are at an > ever-increasing range. > > ---snip--- > > ======================== > > Here's another look at just HOW exercises that don't use the > tongue (and there are many...much of Scholssberg, Carmine Caruso and > Remington, for example) help the high range. All the ranges, really?> > I am just beginning to understand and appreciate the dynamics of > the tongue and its effects on the airstream in relation to the > various ranges of the horn. I have for several years advocated m'pce > buzzing and free buzzing as ways to improve the embouchure, and one > of the ways that I have believed these techniques worked was to > center the necessary resistance at the lips, where it could be > controlled, rather than relying on the equipment to provide it. It is > becoming increasingly clear to me that this resistance is properly > controlled not only by the lips but by the tongue as well. > > There have been mentions in the mainstream brass literature of the > tongue as being the sole mechanism in the production of so-called lip > trills. I can't recall just where I have seen this, but especially in > trumpet literature the idea that rapidly doing something that would > produce an effect like "Tah-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh" with the > tongue while playing a note would in itself produce a change in > pitch. When I tried this many years ago, all it did was change the > timbre of the note, so I forgot about it. > > However?n the process, I forgot completely about the tongue and > its relation to pitch and air. This is not necessarily a "bad" > thing?he less you are consciously thinking about when you play or > practice, the better off you will be, in my opinion?ut then again, > every bite of the apple of knowledge can have potentially good > effects as well, if used correctly. > > Which brings us to?n the course of practicing slow, untongued > harmonics from the lower ranges into the higher, it dawned on me > about 2 months ago that my tongue (and when I say "tongue", I mean > the whole thing?ront, middle and back) was VERY involved in the > guidance of the airstream, most noticeably in the altissimo register > around and above the F at the top of the treble clef. It was arching > in the middle and back in that range to produce an almost > supercharged effect?ssentially providing a guided resistance that > sped up and centered the air. > > Further, I found that when I tried to TONGUE up there, the act of > tonguing itself destabilized this system somewhat. > > Eureka time!!! > > I had read somewhere?lease, anyone who knows who this trumpet > teacher is, let me know (Maggio? Stevens?)?f a trumpet tonguing > system that utilized a sort of 1/2 double tonguing technique, where > the actual articulation in the higher ranges was to be done w/the > middle of the tongue rather than the tip, the idea apparently being > to keep the tip of the tongue out of the way of the airstream When I > tried it on trombone, it didn't work very well and I discarded it, > thinking that it was probably trumpet specific. However, this tongue > positioning concept made me consider in a new light the essentially > tongueless approaches of so many great jazz players., especially > upper register players. Frank Rosolino, Lawrence Brown, Urbie Green, > Willie Dennis, Jimmy Knepper?nd possibly the doodle tonguers as > well?arl Fontana, Bill Watrous?> > Now back to the original idea?racticing untongued exercises of > any kind will help the high register enormously, because the tongue > doesn't have to do double duty. Once the phrase is initially started, > the tongue can stop being an articulator and concentrate on being a > partial resistor, a valve that concentrates and directs the airstream > and helps the lips produce the necessary resistance. > > Further, even in other ranges the same concept holds true. I have > added to my repertoire of connecting exercises variations that use no > tongue at all after the initial attack?hort and long scales and > scale patterns particularly, through every range from pedals to > altissimo.. I just use a straight, uninterrupted airstream, > utilizing the natural breaks of the horn and the slide (glisses and > all) to do all of the work of changing notes. This allows the tongue > to do its thing unencumbered by other responsibilities, and an as a > side effect makes me move my slide REALLY quickly, accurately and > efficiently. (No tongue to mask sloppy slide work.) > > I've only scratched the surface of this, and have no idea how (or > even if) I will reintegrate the tongue into this system?ut I've been > thinking about writing to the forum about it recently, and the above > post spurred me to do so. > > I haven't covered these ideas in my method book or articles on > the OTJ so far, because I'm still up in the air about them, and > welcome any and all comments or questions you may have. > > Later?> > Sam Burtis > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:03:54 +0900 From: Joseph Green To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bending pitches Message-ID: <3C8BE656.1CB6@twics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ?Thanks to all who responded to my question. For those who don't remember -- or weren't on the list then -- I asked why bending pitches down is so much easier than bending them up. I didn't expect the answers to require an understanding of quantum physics, so I'm still working on those. Exploring the alternate harmonic series will also take time; and if this really has something to do with the bell flare, then I have an idea... JG (Actually, I can change the fundamental from Bb to B just by inserting the "correct" practice mute!) ++++++++++++++++ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:30:31 -0600 From: E P LUKAS To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Memphis Symphony Opening Message-ID: <3C8BFAA7.532F7481@bigfoot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Just spreading the work about the fact that there is 2nd trombone opening in the Memphis Symphony starting with 2002/03 season. It is a per service position but it could be decent position for someone in a certain chapter of his/her career/life. Anyone interested in more info please feel to write back to me. The audition is scheduled for April 14th at 1:30 I believe. The job is advertised in the International Musician. Interested individuals may write to: The Memphis Symphony Orchestra 3100 Walnut Grove,Suite 501 Attn.Mr. Doug Mayes,Personnel Manager Memphis,Tennessee 38111 Sincerely, Greg Luscombe Principal trombone trom7805@aol.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:46:14 -0600 From: "Brian Frederiksen" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Subject: Chicago Civic Orchestra Message-ID: <001501c1c896$30659da0$fbb1fea9@studio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been asked to post the following message: The following official notice was issued by the acting executive director of the Civic Orchestra of Chicago, Ms. Karen Deschere. Here it is verbatim: Due to CSO budget restraints, there have been changes made to the instrumentation of the Civic Orchestra of Chicago for the 2002 - 03 season. Civic will have a string section of 14, 12, 10, 8, 6. We will have winds of 3333 and to start the year will have brass of 4200 [4 horns, 2 trumpets, 0 trombones, 0 tubas]. Mid-year 3 trombones and tuba as well as harp and percussion will be added. Timpani will be a full-year position. Civic will start the year with the smaller orchestra, focusing on repertoire of Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven as well as contemporary pieces. Mid-year we will begin to program works requiring larger orchestras. We believe that this makes sense pedagogically, and it helps us to be responsible to our current fiscal restraints. The Civic members who fill these partial year positions will receive a stipend of $1,500. Additionally, these musicians will be able to participate for the full season in Civic's other programming, including seminars, master classes, chamber ensembles and LaSalle Bank MusiCorpsSM. Auditions for these instruments will be in Chicago in the fall of 2002. The dates will be posted shortly. For further information, check the Civic web page at civicorchestra.org or email us at civic@cso.org. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:54:49 -0500 From: Charles Perron To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <002101c1c8a8$1c2da960$6401a8c0@glst3401.nj.comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Sabutin wrote: > There have been mentions in the mainstream brass literature of the > tongue as being the sole mechanism in the production of so-called lip > trills. I can't recall just where I have seen this, but especially in > trumpet literature the idea that rapidly doing something that would > produce an effect like "Tah-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh" with the > tongue while playing a note would in itself produce a change in > pitch. When I tried this many years ago, all it did was change the > timbre of the note, so I forgot about it. A couple of years ago at the NYC Brass Conference there was a lecture by brass teacher and trumpet player Malte Burba where he taught exactly what you said here. He demonstrated how when we *say* "Tah-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh" we tend to vary the pitch of our voice up and down as we move our tongue. He warned against this tendency since it doesn't reflect what we should be doing while playing (ie. the vocal cords shouldn't be engaged while playing). But he used the exercise of saying "Tah-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh" to bring attention to the role of the tongue. He even demonstrated trills on various notes by using only the tongue in this fashion (ieieieieiei). That role being to regulate air pressure. Here is a quote from his book "Brass Master-Class Method for brass players." "We thus require two outlets, of which one affects primarily the amount of air (volume) and the other air pressure (pitch). If we look at our anatomy there are only a few possibilities. The first outlet, which can have an effect on the air permeability, is formed by the glottis which, by varying the size of the opening, can change the amount of air passing through and is thus essentially responsible for the volume of the sound. The second outlet still available to us is the tongue, which can modify the passage of air in the oral cavity and, since it ranks second, primarily affects the air pressure and thus the pitch." (p19) He likens this to receiving water from the tap at home. The water is pumped from the pumping station (lungs), the volume is regulated by how much we turn on the faucet (glottis) and we could control the speed of the water by placing our thumb over the end of the hose (tongue). He writes: "When we need more or less water we do not call the water works, but simply turn on or off the water-tap. This means that the water-tap is like the glottis, it regulates the quantity, i.e. the volume. Our thumb held on the front of the water hose is like our second outlet, the tongue, and regulates the pressure, i.e. pitch." (p 19) Sabutin continues: > Which brings us toSin the course of practicing slow, untongued > harmonics from the lower ranges into the higher, it dawned on me > about 2 months ago that my tongue (and when I say "tongue", I mean > the whole thingSfront, middle and back) was VERY involved in the > guidance of the airstream, most noticeably in the altissimo register > around and above the F at the top of the treble clef. It was arching > in the middle and back in that range to produce an almost > supercharged effectSessentially providing a guided resistance that > sped up and centered the air. This is just as Malte Burba describes the role of the tongue. It is also the way many high note trumpet players describe what they do. Bud Brisbois and John Madrid both spoke of the tongue as supercharging the air. John even used the same "thumb on the end of the hose" analogy to describe the role of the tongue. When you hear Bud Brisbois or John Madrid or Cat Anderson or any of the players who do that extreme stuff, it is clear that there is something radically different going on in their mouth than players with average range. John Madrid said that Jim Trimble used this technique. I don't know if that is true or not, but I do know that Jim Trimble's power and range are (were?) astounding. > Further, I found that when I tried to TONGUE up there, the act of > tonguing itself destabilized this system somewhat. John Madrid said the same thing, but you would have never known it to listen to him play. Nor would you think it was the case with Bud Brisbois. They evidently overcame this inherent problem. > I had read somewhereSplease, anyone who knows who this trumpet > teacher is, let me know (Maggio? Stevens?)Sof a trumpet tonguing > system that utilized a sort of 1/2 double tonguing technique, where > the actual articulation in the higher ranges was to be done w/the > middle of the tongue rather than the tip, the idea apparently being > to keep the tip of the tongue out of the way of the airstream Malte Burba teaches something similar to this. He says it is the logical next step from using the tongue to change the pitch. I'm sure I'm not doing his ideas justice, so forgive this oversimplification, but he writes: "The fixed position of the tip of the tongue on the lower incisors must not change." ... "If the [a Œ e i] sounds [NOTE: These are Cardinal Vowel sounds that he introduced earlier in the book which represent various tongue positions] run automatically we may first discover a strange fact. In a physically ideal situation there is no principle difference between legato and staccato but only a gradual difference. If we move the tongue somewhat further to the front with a voiceless motion [eieieiei], or it tightens a little more so that it becomes narrower, this does not result in a narrowing of the air passage but an interruption! Whether we use the tongue to change the pitch (compression) or for articulation (interruption) depends in principle on the same movement process. Some readers will now have difficulty in imagining that it is not the tip of the tongue that is responsible for articulation but the front ridge of the tongue. Upon closer examination, however, we must accept the fact that there are basic disadvantages in articulating with the tip of the tongue..." I have heard this referred to as "anchor-tonguing" but Malte Burba does a good job of fitting it into a bigger picture of what goes on inside our mouth when we play. I don't know if this is exactly what Sabutin was referring to, but it sure sounds similar. The question of the role of the tongue is definitely being looked at; perhaps even more so among trumpet players (this topic comes up regularly on TPIN). This is all a far cry from what Will Bradley taught me 25 years ago and what the Arbans book teaches: "To start the tone, the tongue must be drawn back as one would when trying to throw off a small seed; at the same time, the column of air must be allowed to go forward and in doing so the lips will vibrate and cause tone-production.... For a trombone-sized mouthpiece, it is a very practical attack, and it should be observed that a pencil or finger held vertically against the lips is barely touched with the tip of the tongue." Arbans book from instructive comments by Charles L. Randall Tongue between your lips! And in the case of Will Bradley you could actually hear it. He had a very distinctive articulation (not so much on record, but in person you couldn't miss it). I'm still trying to get over it (single tonguing being something I have always had problems with!). In case anyone is interested in reading a challenging book, Malte Burba's Brass Master-Class that I quoted will force you to think differently about many things that most of us take for granted. It is 45 pages of text and some photographs plus a 15 page glossary. I believe it was translated from German (I say this because he apologized for his English at the seminar and the wording in the book is a bit awkward at times). It is short and sometimes confusing, but it is FULL of ideas. I have adopted a couple of his ideas and have become a much better player because of them. I found the book on Amazon.com (the German site). My question is this: Is there a common use of the tongue/air that is happening with the great players? The more I listen to Urbie Green, the less I understand how to do those things. Dave Steinmeyer - same thing. Buddy Morrow - incredible. Si Zentner - what a player (you may not like the vibrato, but you just don't hear control in the extreme upper register like that). I have a decent upper range, but when I play it doesn't sound ANYTHING like these great players. There is something very different that they are doing and I would REALLY like to know what it is. Put that in a book and put me on the list to buy a copy! Chuck ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:46:07 -0500 (EST) From: David Fetter To: Trombone Forum Subject: Bob Anderson on Stretching Message-ID: <1015818366.3c8c287f02752@webmail.toad.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Re: Bob Anderson on Stretching I endorse Doug Yeo's recommendation of the book, in whatever edition, by Bob Anderson. The 1980 edition was called simply "Stretching." Then it was available from Shelter Publications, PO. Box 279 Bolinas, CA 92924. I've seen a current jazzed-up version of it on the sports shelf at Borders Books - an 8.5 x 11 paperback. The 1980 edition has general stretches. It has individual stretching routines as warm-ups and warm-downs for specific sports (and we all LOVE warm-ups). It also offers simple conditioning exercises. It enabled me to exercise as a runner for years longer than I would have, and more comfortably. It is important to remember that stretching can be overdone - do not go beyond mild tension - no bouncing. "Stretching, when done correctly, is not painful." Extreme stretching can cause physical damage. One will ask, what are trombone-specific stretches? The book offers many stretches aimed at the neck and upper body. But, in my view, it is better to exercise generally and to stretch generally than to limit yourself to working only the parts of your body which play the trombone. David Fetter Peabody Conservatory and Preparatory Trombone Faculties Associate Dean for Performance Activities and Placement 1 East Mt. Vernon Place Baltimore, MD 21202 David Fetter - Music for Brass (Mostly) Home page: gigue.peabody.jhu.edu/~davidf/ _________________________________________________________________________ This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:21:44 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Bill Hughes, trombonist with Basie Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020310212144.0365e1e0@mail.comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I just got back from a concert by the Count Basie band. They sound great! Incredible time, DYNAMICS!, super tight ensemble, great sound. I spent a couple of minutes speaking with Bill Hughes, who plays bass trombone with the band. In addition to being a monster section player, he's a true gentleman. Noting that he had been with the band every time I've seen them over the past 20 or so years, and I think his name is on the personnel list of every Basie recording I have, I asked him how long he had been on the band. "With the exception of 6 years, continuously since 1952." FIFTY YEARS! As long as (or more often, longer than) the most long-lived orchestra players. Maybe as long as Freddie Green was with the band! I just thought I'd share this fact, which I hadn't really realized until I spoke with him. Seems like a good subject for an ITA Journal interview. Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:52:50 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L , Brass@lists.fsu.edu Subject: Online Trombone Journal Classifieds Update - 3/11/2002 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 12:52 AM on March 11, 2002 with forty-three new ads. - - - - - Thank you for using the OTJ Classifieds! - - - - - OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp OTJ Gift Shoppe: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=trombones If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:27:20 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Chicago Civic Orchestra Message-ID: <008201c1c8ce$3fdeaaa0$00e568d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Brian Frederiksen" > Civic will have a string section of 14, 12, 10, 8, 6. We will have winds of > 3333 and to start the year will have brass of 4200 [4 horns, 2 trumpets, 0 > trombones, 0 tubas]. Mid-year 3 trombones and > tuba as well as harp and percussion will be added. Timpani will be a > full-year position. Woodwind in 3s, but no low brass? Seems a little unbalanced to me. Please forgive my jazz-minded ignorance of the SO, but have any composers actually written for this combination? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:01:35 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: shoshani@attbi.com, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F8D3@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1C8FC.DFCF67B0" Well, here's an opposite opinion. Singers who don't use their tongue, and who sing most of the time on pure vowels, producing the most pure and powerful tones, are completely un-understandable. There are lots of these, they are called opera singers, and before you jump all over me, I know it is in some dead language. But I've heard it done in English and guess what, you can't understand it any better. Now compare this to singers who articulate with the tongue, like some Broadway singers, oh, maybe Liza Minelli, etc. You can hear every word. Still beautiful, but now the text carries meaning. Why would we give that up? More importantly, I don't feel it ruins the tone at all.Ê Similarly with trombone - excessive avoidance of tongue use produces slop for all but a few of the top players, and we've grown so accustomed to it we think it's good. Oops, getting carried away. I suspect in the low range you want your tongue out of the way and in the high range you need it working. After reading Sam's post on the forum last night I played trying to pay attention to my tongue. It's subtle; I think when I shift setting to play high, the middle of my tongue comes forward and arches a little. Playing long tones low I think it tries to get out of the way, but also it didn't seem to make as much difference. This is not conscious and I'm not sure it's doing it, I'm going to pay attention for awhile and see.Ê Several years ago someone on this list mentioned a European system where you played with various vowel shapes. Instead of tah, tah, (or AH, AH for some of you guys ) you played tah, toh, too, tee, etc. It was supposed to give you fine control of timbre. For some time I tried playing exercises that way, it didn't seem to make much difference though.ÊÊÊ -----Original Message----- From: Michael Shoshani [mailto:shoshani@attbi.com] Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:02 AM To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue We've secretly replaced sabutin 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: > I had read somewhereSÿplease, anyone who knows who this trumpet >teacher is, let me know (Maggio? Stevens?)Sÿof a trumpet tonguing >system that utilized a sort of 1/2 double tonguing technique, where >the actual articulation in the higher ranges was to be done w/the >middle of the tongue rather than the tip, the idea apparently being >to keep the tip of the tongue out of the way of the airstream When I >tried it on trombone, it didn't work very well and I discarded it, >thinking that it was probably trumpet specific. However, this tongue >positioning concept made me consider in a new light the essentially >tongueless approaches of so many great jazz players., especially >upper register players. Frank Rosolino, Lawrence Brown, Urbie Green, >Willie Dennis, Jimmy KnepperSÿand possibly the doodle tonguers as >wellSÿCarl Fontana, Bill WatrousSÿ > I have a book on speaking and singing by one Dr. Montefiore, who was apparently the ear-nose-throat physician for "The Other" Caruso, Enrico. The book is called "The Caruso Method of Singing", and in it Dr. Montefiore compares the way phonetic sounds were produced (circa 1921) by those who lived life in the open air, such as Italians, who devloped great diction and clarity of speech, and those who lived in close quarters, such as the English and Americans, whose speech tended to be mumbled through clenched teeth with no opening of the vocal apparatus. He then diagrammed the position of the tongue and teeth for every phoneme in English and Italian, both the "right" way and the "wrong" way. In nearly every instance, particularly with vowels, the "right" way had the tongue lying as flat as possible on the floor of the mouth. The "wrong" way had the tongue up in the middle of the airstream, near the roof of the mouth. It was Dr. Montefiore's opinion that the tongue should be out of the way as much as possible when speaking and singing, because its presence in the airflow affected the production of vowel sounds, which he considered more important that that of consonants. The idea of consonants, to him, is to softly modify the vowels as they come out of the mouth--not to impede them in any way. I'm starting to see a parallel between these ideas and what's being discussed lately regarding embouchre and tonguing for the trombone: the lips produce the tone, and perhaps resonances inside the mouth and chest color the tone a bit, but the tongue works better the less it's used; it serves better as a modifier than as a stop-start valve. SINGERS don't use their tongues, lips, or epiglotti to start and stop their own tones; perhaps we rely too much on the tongue when starting tones or changing notes. Experiment time for me!Ê Michael Shoshani Chicago IL ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:52:29 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Interesting stuff, still coming. Here are a couple of additional posts I made to thr OTJ Forum on this matter. ================ (In response to an idea about the tongue + whistling) Thanks for your ideas. This is just the kind of thing I am looking for. I agree w/what you say here, but I think BOTH things are happening. To use your whistling ideaÉI have two whistlesÉa "normal" one and a "stop-that-cab-at-any-cost-in-the-middle-of-the-noisy-city" one. The normal one uses the tongue as you suggest. The high, VERY loud one, however, is done by folding the tongue in the middle and rifling the air through the resulting small opening in the front. Pitch is still controlled by the tongue, but rather than the middle and friont of the tongue being used, it is done more with the back end of it, where it meets the soft palate. The front of the tongue in the loud, high version is more or less immobilized by its function as a supercharger, funneling a large mass of air through a small opening. The resulting sound, pitch and relative lack of effort or tension stands VERY much the same in relation to my "normal" whistle as the altissimo tongue technique I am trying stands to my "normal" tongue position in the middle and lower ranges. Up until about C or D in the treble clefÉalthough I'm beginning to think this thing actually starts to happen more in the Ab area below that (which might help to explain the almost universal high G-Ab barrier that most tenor players encounter)Éyour idea about tongue position is pretty consistent and relatively symmetricalÉthat is, lower notes and higher notes have relatively open and closed tongue positions. It is in the octave ABOVE that rangeÉparticularly around F in the treble clefÉthat I am seeing some sort of quantum change, a radically different, "supercharging": effect.. Thanks againÉ Sam Burtis ======== More on thisÉ People have mentioned trumpet and saxophone approaches, and of course those approaches are fine, as far as they go Éfine for trumpet and sax, for ANY instrument that has a built in articulation device of some sort. Valves, keysÉarticulation is almost unnecessary to produce discrete notes in a musical line when you have such things on a horn. It gets much more complicated with a slide instrument, and if we were to use ANY models for this thing, it would probably be vocalists. The role of our tongue is necessarily much more complicated than ANY other wind instrument, including the voice. Aside from the extremely asymmetrical breaks between the partials (which any number of great jazz trombonists have used as almost their sole means of rapid articulationÉthink Willie Dennis, Frank Rosolino, Jimmy Knepper to some degree), our tongue is our ONLY tool to define notes so that we don't sound like a glissando machine at ANY tempoÉslow, fast, in the middle. Other wind instruments have their keys + valves, the voice has almost unlimited rapid portamento possibilitiesÉMUCH quicker than the slide, to the point of being almost unnoticeable (listen to any great opera singer's trill)É all we have is out tongue. That is all well and good, of course, as long as we are willing to forego some of the tongue's apparent OTHER function in brass playing. It acts as a pitch É"facilitator", I guess you might call it. This is alright as long as that "facilitating" function does not put it in a position that interferes w/its normal articulation duties. That range appears to be through the extreme middle registers of the hornÉ a range from about G-Gb-F-E at the bottom of the bass clef to Bb-B-C-Db-D in the middle of the treble clef. (Lower w/bigger m'pces, higher w/smaller onesÉthe tongue doesn't seem to need to come into serious play as a pitch facilitator as early in the extreme registers when the m'pce favors those registers.) Where the trouble starts for most of us is at the extremes, in those ranges (and volumes, let's not forget volumes) where we have to open or close our system past a point that allows us to tongue w/out somehow destabilizing that system, and this is where the techniques and analogies to other instruments begin to break down for us. The Claude Gordon/Herbert L. Clarke "modified K tongue" is one attempt at dealing w/this for trumpetÉI mean, it would be nice of THEY could tongue up there tooÉ but it appears to me that an approach of this sort is still somewhat trumpet specific. They say the tip of the tongue should be anchored behind the lower teeth for this technique, and the position the tip of my tongue needs to take to act as a supercharger in the high range appears to be UNanchored, more as if it were narrowing the channel between itself and my upper teeth. (This of course could simply be a personal idiosyncrasyÉthat's one of the reasons I have opened this discussion in the first place, to get feedback from other players on this matter.) If however this is the general case w/trombonists, then how are we to articulate in the altissimo register? Starting notes is not that much of a problemÉonce the stroke is accomplished, the tongue can go wherever it must to help produce the noteÉbut to help shape a melodic line??? Every time the tongue moves the airstream is disturbed. This same syndrome sometimes happens at very soft volumes as well, in all registers. The tongue, if not used very delicately, will sometimes cut off or destabilize the airstream during changes in notes, resulting in a wobbly sound or losing the vibration at the lips completely. In these cases, I have found great concentration on support of the airstream coupled w/very careful tonguing to work well, but although the problem seems similar to the one in the high range, the solutions appear to be quite different. The airstream in the upper register is of necessity well supported, or the note wouldn't be happening in the first place. Anyway,,, just wandering around here, trying to get more feedback. Fire away, por favorÉ Sam Burtis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:16:39 -0800 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: Subject: Question probably already answered, but... Message-ID: <659829993461CA49942D1312DE3436918309F8@edcenmail1.bcsd.k12.ca.us> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1C90F.BE469F1A" Good morning all, I'll be quick. How is it that I don't receive same messages at two different addresses? Couple times a week there will be a thread going on and I'll see a reference to someones post that I never received, and then check at my other location, and there it is. Like someone else on the list, Inquiring minds want to know. All the best on theis "Sixth Month", Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:41:38 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Question probably already answered, but... Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The most common variable is the Internet service provider used. The listprocessor is also somewhat finicky. It is rather old software (I believe the current revision date is 1995, or nearly a century ago in computer years), and is not being actively maintained by The University of Missouri's staff. Sometimes messages do not go through and must be resent several times, then all the copies sent miraculously appear. When there's an error, the listprocessor sends an e-mail to my address, alerting me to the error. On average, it generates over 100 errors per day. The joys of technology. LM Good morning all, I'll be quick. How is it that I don't receive same messages at two different addresses? Couple times a week there will be a thread going on and I'll see a reference to someones post that I never received, and then check at my other location, and there it is. Like someone else on the list, Inquiring minds want to know. All the best on theis "Sixth Month", Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra -- --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:06:01 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum. (E-mail)" Subject: FW: NEW CD! Message-ID: <454FC5BC266BDB4BBA26E5BBF2F73FEF28CEBA@torxchng1.dwpv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FYI, I received the following email announcement today. Listen to the samples on the web site. Sounds great! ===================== For those of you who are interested, Joseph Alessi's new cd, "Trombonastics" is s now ready to be shipped to you today!! This cd features terrific new arrangments by Robert Elkjer for trombone and piano, trombone and harp, and trombone choir. Please visit www.slidearea.com now to order your copy today! Slidearea.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:42:22 -0700 (MST) From: tom harris To: George Apgar Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Vegas Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Give Capazolli's a call when you get there (or before). This is a 24 hour Italian Restaurant on Maryland, with a "locals" feel to it. They have live music on the weekend, beginning at midnight. There is an ongoing recording series at this locale. A number of CDs have been produced, including 3 CDs of performances that Carl Fontana has done for the "Live at Capazolli's" series. I enjoyed the show "The Rat Pack is Back", at the Sahara. It is supposed to be a recreation of a 1961 show by Frank, Dean, and Sammy. The humor (in my opinion) is very dated, but the music is great, with a live big band accompaniment. You might also consider either of the Cirque de Soleil shows as well as Blue Man Group. Both feature live music throughout and are exceptional shows. You might also check out the UNLV web site for concerts from their music department. The Las Vegas Jazz Society also has a site with a calendar. I have had varying degrees of success gaining additional info using their "contact us" option. And remember, "Have some fun!" *********************** On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, George Apgar wrote: > We'll be in Vegas from March 17 to 20th. Does anyone know if there is > any good listening music there, or is it all in the genres of Wayne > Newton, Britney Spears, or other Disneyfied, celebrity oriented, song > and dance routines heavy on the smoke and amplification? > > George > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:39:29 -0600 From: "Fred Hudson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Chicago Civic Orchestra Message-ID: <009f01c1c923$b40131a0$311298d8@s0024172501> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beethoven introduced trombones to the symphony (or should I say introduced the symphony to trombones) in the 4th movement of his fifth. Prior to that, Mozart and Haydn in particular did not include us in their Symphonic works. Therefore there is substantial symphonic literature to sustain a "low-brassless" orchestra for several seasons. Fred Hudson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 1:27 AM Subject: Re: Chicago Civic Orchestra > > From: "Brian Frederiksen" > > > Civic will have a string section of 14, 12, 10, 8, 6. We will have winds > of > > 3333 and to start the year will have brass of 4200 [4 horns, 2 trumpets, 0 > > trombones, 0 tubas]. Mid-year 3 trombones and > > tuba as well as harp and percussion will be added. Timpani will be a > > full-year position. > > > Woodwind in 3s, but no low brass? Seems a little unbalanced to me. Please > forgive my jazz-minded ignorance of the SO, but have any composers actually > written for this combination? > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2325--