TROMBONE-L Digest 2324 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: searching out #s by Earl Needham 2) Re: Vegas by Chris Waage 3) Re: Trouble with the "Bear" by "Keith Marr" 4) Text of Woodsan's message by "richard human" 5) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by "Rod Ellard" 6) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by E P LUKAS 7) RE: Text of Woodsan's message by "Gary Maxwell" 8) RE: Text of Woodsan's message by "Jon Moeller" 9) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by Atlbrvsnt@aol.com 10) newly minted net.kook visits trombone-l by Dave Tall 11) Reynolds Instruments by Bruce Guttman 12) RE: Reynolds Instruments by "Tom Izzo" 13) Re: Bending pitches by Wayne Dyess 14) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by Bruce Faske 15) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by "Paul Hill" 16) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by Michael Shoshani 17) Re: Text of Woodsan's message by Michael Shoshani 18) List Monitor by "Keith Marr" 19) Re: List Monitor by Michael Shoshani 20) RE: Text of Woodsan's message by "The Snead Family" 21) Re: List Monitor by Bredmanjr@aol.com 22) Woodson and the big fuss by sabutin 23) Forward: Memphis Symphony Opening by E P LUKAS 24) Re: List Monitor by Earl Needham 25) Re: List Monitor by Michael Shoshani 26) Re: List Monitor by "Aaron Roth" 27) Re: List Monitor by Listmonitor Trombone-L 28) RE: Text of Woodsan's message by "Tom Izzo" 29) Re: searching out #s by emrose79@pacbell.net 30) Re: List Monitor by Bodie Pfost 31) Vacancies for March 2002 by Nigel Horne 32) Re: List Monitor by sabutin 33) RE: The "orchestral teacher" pitfall (was RE: Olds V Conn Tuition) by "Steve Cordingley" 34) Re: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) by Douglas Yeo 35) Re: List Monitor by "John McVey" 36) Re: Bending pitches by "Adrian Drover" 37) RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) by "Edward Solomon" 38) Re: List Monitor by Listmonitor Trombone-L 39) Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by sabutin 40) Re: List Monitor by Michael Shoshani 41) Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue by Michael Shoshani 42) Re: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) by "Joe L. Norcross" 43) I'm not suggesting anything here by Wayne Dyess ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:13:38 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: searching out #s Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020309111215.00aa1710@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:52 PM 3/8/2002 -0600, Jeff Albert wrote: That's what I get for answering before I do someone else's web search. 300,000 is the approximate 1950 number, not 500,000. http://www.unitedmusical.com/ is the website. They cloak the addresses, so I can't give you the straight link, but click on King, then serial # history. That little windows at the bottom of Internet Explorer shows the address to be http://www.unitedmusical.com/King/serialno.htm Sneaky, huh? Hehehe....... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1*:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:36:07 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Vegas Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I stayed there about two years ago, and Don Menza was playing then - a great show! Chris Check out the Riviera on Monday Night - Don Menza has had a big band gig there for about 7-8 years. I am pretty sure it is still going. -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:08:45 -0000 From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trouble with the "Bear" Message-ID: <002801c1c79d$dfeb0980$d10986d9@tiny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hear, hear Mr Adios! Am I right in thinking this is the same individual LM had to ask to desist from a thread late last year concerning legal action between he and an academic institution? Is he the guy we get the phrase "like a bear with a sore head" from? Wonder why the determination to make lawyers rich! Keith in Bb/F/D, and I'll sue anyone that says otherwise. ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Drover I just want everyone to know that I fully support whatever action LM has taken to ensure the smooth running of our list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:35:54 -0800 From: "richard human" To: Subject: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <200203091135.AA39911504@trombone.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is the message sent to a small subset of people from Mr. Woodsan. >     ......this is what's going to happen. If the Trom- >bone List Monitor does NOT re-instate me to the Trom- >bone List by Monday Evening, March 9, 2002, and >apologize publicly to the entire Trombone List by >Tuesday, March 10, 2002, I will contact my lawyer and >begin the Lawsuit against the Trombone List Monitor. > >     The US Federal Department of Education can tell >you that I have already proven my case to them: that >the University of Arizona and Professor Daniel Asia, >are indeed guilty of numerous violations State and >Federal Education and Disability Laws, plus lying to >Federal Investigators and Obstructing Justice. They are >looking down the barrel of actual jail time, not to men- >tion the end of their careers. They are not supposed to >reveal their findings until sometime in May 2002, but >we all know I will win. > >     Then in the Summer of 2002 comes the Civilian >Lawsuit, which will get me several million dollars, >likely over 20 Million. However nothing can improve >my rare genetic trait for bad liver, and my Adult On- >Set Diabetes, so nothing will change the fact that I >only have a few years left. Since I was never capable >of greed, I will establish Foundations to help Disabled >People and Talented Musicians for the rest of the >century, long after I'm dead. > >     I am now wallowing in good lawyers, and therefore >have a lot of clout, but I don't need it. I have broken >NO FCC Laws of any kind, so the accusations of the >Trombone List Monitor are Defamations of Character. > >     When I sue, I will insist that THAT List Monitor be >banned from the Internet for at least One Year, and >be required to have Psychological help. If I have to >close This Trombone List forever, so be it. They can >always open a New Trombone List, as long as THAT >List Monitor is NOT on the Internet. > >     Since, in a few months, I will have more money >than I can ever need, (and I need fairly little for myself), >any proceeds from the Lawsuit against the Trombone >List Monitor, (who sees insults and threats that aren't >there), can go to help real people with real problems. >But THIS Trombone List is due to have severe changes, >if not a complete ending SOON! > >     Just in case you, ............., are not able to read >this E-Mail during your busy weekend, I will copy it >to a few other members of the Trombone List. Some >of them have already expressed confusion of the List >Monitors extreme reaction to my ordinary E-Mail a >week ago. Now he'll have something real to worry >about. Either way, That List Monitor is going to be >removed from the Internet for a long time, if not per- >manently. Frankly, I think he'd be better helped by a >psychiatrist. This Lawsuit could end the Trombone >List. > > >     Bear Woodson >     Composer in Tucson, Arizona, USA > >"Bear" Thomas C. Woodson >3636 N. Campbell Ave. >         Apt. 3119 >Tucson,     AZ,     U. S. A. >         8 5 7 1 9 - 1 5 4 5 As his message is a threat to both the members of this list and the people who work to support it, this is a rightful and appropriate place to post it. Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:46:15 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <000c01c1c7a3$14156e30$61cffea9@rodcomp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A comment: > > > > I am now wallowing in good lawyers...<< A pride of lions, a murder of crows, a wallow of lawyers ... Rod (a lawyer by the way) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:01:13 -0600 From: E P LUKAS To: richard@trombone.org Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <3C8A6A09.745E2F18@bigfoot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit richard human wrote: > > Here is the message sent to a small subset of people from Mr. > Woodsan. > > As his message is a threat to both the members of this list and the > people who work to support it, this is a rightful and appropriate > place to post it. > > Richard My opinion is that List Monitor does good work and I respect his judgement. Personally, I've got Mr. Bear Woodson on my IGNORE LIST. -- ERNIE PAUL LUKAS MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:21:19 -0800 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <659829993461CA49942D1312DE3436918309F7@edcenmail1.bcsd.k12.ca.us> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1C7A7.F8E82E9A" From: E P LUKAS [mailto:eplukas@bigfoot.com] My opinion is that List Monitor does good work and I respect his judgement. Personally, I've got Mr. Bear Woodson on my IGNORE LIST. ============================================================= In complete agreement here. Mr. Bear Woodson, who? Never heard of him. Gary Maxwell Bakersfield, California -- ERNIE PAUL LUKAS MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:33:17 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: "Trombone List" Subject: RE: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <000201c1c7a9$a5ac56a0$3101a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This threat is so empty its not even funny. -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of richard human Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 1:36 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Text of Woodsan's message Here is the message sent to a small subset of people from Mr. Woodsan. >ÊÊÊÊÊ......this is what's going to happen. If the Trom- >bone List Monitor does NOT re-instate me to the Trom- >bone List by Monday Evening, March 9, 2002, and >apologize publicly to the entire Trombone List by >Tuesday, March 10, 2002, I will contact my lawyer and >begin the Lawsuit against the Trombone List Monitor. > >ÊÊÊÊÊThe US Federal Department of Education can tell >you that I have already proven my case to them: that >the University of Arizona and Professor Daniel Asia, >are indeed guilty of numerous violations State and >Federal Education and Disability Laws, plus lying to >Federal Investigators and Obstructing Justice. They are >looking down the barrel of actual jail time, not to men- >tion the end of their careers. They are not supposed to >reveal their findings until sometime in May 2002, but >we all know I will win. > >ÊÊÊÊÊThen in the Summer of 2002 comes the Civilian >Lawsuit, which will get me several million dollars, >likely over 20 Million. However nothing can improve >my rare genetic trait for bad liver, and my Adult On- >Set Diabetes, so nothing will change the fact that I >only have a few years left. Since I was never capable >of greed, I will establish Foundations to help Disabled >People and Talented Musicians for the rest of the >century, long after I'm dead. > >ÊÊÊÊÊI am now wallowing in good lawyers, and therefore >have a lot of clout, but I don't need it. I have broken >NO FCC Laws of any kind, so the accusations of the >Trombone List Monitor are Defamations of Character. > >ÊÊÊÊÊWhen I sue, I will insist that THAT List Monitor be >banned from the Internet for at least One Year, and >be required to have Psychological help. If I have to >close This Trombone List forever, so be it. They can >always open a New Trombone List, as long as THAT >List Monitor is NOT on the Internet. > >ÊÊÊÊÊSince, in a few months, I will have more money >than I can ever need, (and I need fairly little for myself), >any proceeds from the Lawsuit against the Trombone >List Monitor, (who sees insults and threats that aren't >there), can go to help real people with real problems. >But THIS Trombone List is due to have severe changes, >if not a complete ending SOON! > >ÊÊÊÊÊJust in case you, ............., are not able to read >this E-Mail during your busy weekend, I will copy it >to a few other members of the Trombone List. Some >of them have already expressed confusion of the List >Monitors extreme reaction to my ordinary E-Mail a >week ago. Now he'll have something real to worry >about. Either way, That List Monitor is going to be >removed from the Internet for a long time, if not per- >manently. Frankly, I think he'd be better helped by a >psychiatrist. This Lawsuit could end the Trombone >List. > > >ÊÊÊÊÊBear Woodson >ÊÊÊÊÊComposer in Tucson, Arizona, USA > >"Bear" Thomas C. Woodson >3636 N. Campbell Ave. >ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊApt. 3119 >Tucson,ÊÊÊÊÊAZ,ÊÊÊÊÊU. S. A. >ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ8 5 7 1 9 - 1 5 4 5 As his message is a threat to both the members of this list and the people who work to support it, this is a rightful and appropriate place to post it. Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:34:21 EST From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com To: Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <18.1b763dc0.29bbcbce@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my opinion, it's time to get back to trombones and related issues, and not worry about one disgruntled former listmember. -Tommy In a message dated Sat, 9 Mar 2002 3:03:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, E P LUKAS writes: > richard human wrote: > > > > Here is the message sent to a small subset of people from Mr. > > Woodsan. > > > > As his message is a threat to both the members of this list and the > > people who work to support it, this is a rightful and appropriate > > place to post it. > > > > Richard > > My opinion is that List Monitor does good work and I respect his > judgement. > Personally, I've got Mr. Bear Woodson on my IGNORE LIST. > -- > > ERNIE PAUL LUKAS > MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:24:27 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: newly minted net.kook visits trombone-l Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020309142427.0365e1e0@mail.comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The threat is of course hollow. I'm sure he's going to go directly to the President of the Internet to have the monitor removed. The monitor has done an outstanding job of managing this list. The previous problem posters have been dealt with quietly and efficiently; the discussions are allowed to be wide-ranging, but are never allowed to descend into namecalling and rancor. I've been using the net since before it was the Internet and this is one of the best job of management of an open discussion list I've seen. Sadly, due to a technicality of where the postings occurred, Mr. Woodson is not qualified for nomination for Usenet Kook of the Month (see alt.usenet.kooks for further information, and a lot of fun postings). I hope that his wallow of lawyers can remedy this situation. As KOTM nominees go, he's not close to being there yet, but I sense in him great determination. Thanks, Unknown Monitor, for a job very well done. Dave ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:01:00 -0500 From: Bruce Guttman To: "INTERNET:rlkarren@cc.usu.edu" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Reynolds Instruments Message-ID: <200203091801_MC3-F509-E399@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message text written by INTERNET:rlkarren@cc.usu.edu >Company History (what happened to the Company?)< Here is a little background on Reynolds: According to Richard Dundas, Foster Reynolds left the H.N. White Company (King) in 1934 to found his own company located in Cleveland. He specialized in "harmony brasses", i.e. tubas, sousaphones, french horns, baritones, and bass trombones. Around World War II, Reynolds added trumpets, cornets, and trombones to the mix. He became a major supplier to the US military. Instruments from this period have a "US" marked on the bell. In 1964, Reynolds and Olds merged under the ownership of Norlin music. Reynolds and Olds instruments from this point on become almost identical. In 1979, Norlin discontinued both Olds and Reynolds. Reynolds build some of the earliest double valve bass trombones; dependant in F and E. They had a unique wrap where part of the F-attachment actually pointed forward toward the bell. You can probably find some Reynolds serial number at any of the Serial Number sites listed in "Brass Resources". Hope this helps. Bruce Guttman Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band Section Leader, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:19:54 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Reynolds Instruments Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just curious........... you said: In 1964, Reynolds and Olds merged under the ownership of Norlin music. Reynolds and Olds instruments from this point on become almost identical. In 1979, Norlin discontinued both Olds and Reynolds. __________________________________ If Norlin discontinued both Olds & Reynolds, what does Norlin do now? Are they still in business? Tom ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:42:57 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: Trombone-L: Subject: Re: Bending pitches Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: "sabutin" Toblerone...it has a kind of a rich, deep, chocolatey sound... Sounds like my first visit to the bathroom this morning. Not quite pedal Bb, but close. Tho' it wasn't Toblerone. More like Guinness and mutton vindaloo. Very rich in overtones. ===================== Hey WAIT!!!!! My new G16 Appletosan computer has smell-o-vision, and I am highly offended by your post to trombone-L. Peeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuu. Trombone content???? Is Bb close enough? We play that note, right? :-) Wayne -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:53:16 -0600 From: Bruce Faske To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <002701c1c7c5$95067e40$2503fea9@Slaveone> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As far as I'm concerned, I think Mr. Woodsan needs the psychiatrist, not the List Monitor. I've known many people with adult onset diabetes and various terminal organ diseases, and THEY don't take their anger out on others this way. I don't think one single court in this land would try this case. It would be dismissed within minutes. Maybe I'm crazy or stupid (probably both), but doesn't the list monitor (who I assume is also the person who created the list) have the right to dismiss anyone from membership if they feel justified to do so? I dont' think the monitor would just arbitrarily dismiss someone without a valid reason. To Mr. Woodsan, I say this. It's unfortunate that you are this angry at this point in your life. Is it really worth all of the effort you're willing to put in, when you know that your time here is limited? I would use my time left to clear my debts (both financially and emotionally) and enjoy what time I have left, thanking whoever gave me the chance to experience life for the time that I've been given here. It would be unfortunate if this list had to die because of one man's anger and frustration. Very sad, indeed. Here is the message sent to a small subset of people from Mr. Woodsan. > ......this is what's going to happen. If the Trom- >bone List Monitor does NOT re-instate me to the Trom- >bone List by Monday Evening, March 9, 2002, and >apologize publicly to the entire Trombone List by >Tuesday, March 10, 2002, I will contact my lawyer and >begin the Lawsuit against the Trombone List Monitor. > > The US Federal Department of Education can tell >you that I have already proven my case to them: that >the University of Arizona and Professor Daniel Asia, >are indeed guilty of numerous violations State and >Federal Education and Disability Laws, plus lying to >Federal Investigators and Obstructing Justice. They are >looking down the barrel of actual jail time, not to men- >tion the end of their careers. They are not supposed to >reveal their findings until sometime in May 2002, but >we all know I will win. > > Then in the Summer of 2002 comes the Civilian >Lawsuit, which will get me several million dollars, >likely over 20 Million. However nothing can improve >my rare genetic trait for bad liver, and my Adult On- >Set Diabetes, so nothing will change the fact that I >only have a few years left. Since I was never capable >of greed, I will establish Foundations to help Disabled >People and Talented Musicians for the rest of the >century, long after I'm dead. > > I am now wallowing in good lawyers, and therefore >have a lot of clout, but I don't need it. I have broken >NO FCC Laws of any kind, so the accusations of the >Trombone List Monitor are Defamations of Character. > > When I sue, I will insist that THAT List Monitor be >banned from the Internet for at least One Year, and >be required to have Psychological help. If I have to >close This Trombone List forever, so be it. They can >always open a New Trombone List, as long as THAT >List Monitor is NOT on the Internet. > > Since, in a few months, I will have more money >than I can ever need, (and I need fairly little for myself), >any proceeds from the Lawsuit against the Trombone >List Monitor, (who sees insults and threats that aren't >there), can go to help real people with real problems. >But THIS Trombone List is due to have severe changes, >if not a complete ending SOON! > > Just in case you, ............., are not able to read >this E-Mail during your busy weekend, I will copy it >to a few other members of the Trombone List. Some >of them have already expressed confusion of the List >Monitors extreme reaction to my ordinary E-Mail a >week ago. Now he'll have something real to worry >about. Either way, That List Monitor is going to be >removed from the Internet for a long time, if not per- >manently. Frankly, I think he'd be better helped by a >psychiatrist. This Lawsuit could end the Trombone >List. > > > Bear Woodson > Composer in Tucson, Arizona, USA > >"Bear" Thomas C. Woodson >3636 N. Campbell Ave. > Apt. 3119 >Tucson, AZ, U. S. A. > 8 5 7 1 9 - 1 5 4 5 As his message is a threat to both the members of this list and the people who work to support it, this is a rightful and appropriate place to post it. Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:59:22 -0800 From: "Paul Hill" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C79C.864E7980" If the Trom->bone List Monitor does NOT re-instate me to the Trom- >bone List by Monday Evening, March 9, 2002, and >apologize publicly to the entire Trombone List by >Tuesday, March 10, 2002, I will contact my lawyer and >begin the Lawsuit against the Trombone List Monitor. > >ÊÊÊÊÊThe US Federal Department of Education can tell >you that I have already proven my case to them: that >the University of Arizona and Professor Daniel Asia, >are indeed guilty of numerous violations State and >Federal Education and Disability Laws, plus lying to >Federal Investigators and Obstructing Justice. They are >looking down the barrel of actual jail time, not to men- >tion the end of their careers. They are not supposed to >reveal their findings until sometime in May 2002, but >we all know I will win. > >ÊÊÊÊÊThen in the Summer of 2002 comes the Civilian >Lawsuit, which will get me several million dollars, >likely over 20 Million. However nothing can improve >my rare genetic trait for bad liver, and my Adult On- >Set Diabetes, so nothing will change the fact that I >only have a few years left. Since I was never capable >of greed, I will establish Foundations to help Disabled >People and Talented Musicians for the rest of the >century, long after I'm dead. > >ÊÊÊÊÊI am now wallowing in good lawyers, and therefore >have a lot of clout, but I don't need it. I have broken >NO FCC Laws of any kind, so the accusations of the >Trombone List Monitor are Defamations of Character. > >ÊÊÊÊÊWhen I sue, I will insist that THAT List Monitor be >banned from the Internet for at least One Year, and >be required to have Psychological help. If I have to >close This Trombone List forever, so be it. They can >always open a New Trombone List, as long as THAT >List Monitor is NOT on the Internet. > >ÊÊÊÊÊSince, in a few months, I will have more money >than I can ever need, (and I need fairly little for myself), >any proceeds from the Lawsuit against the Trombone >List Monitor, (who sees insults and threats that aren't >there), can go to help real people with real problems. >But THIS Trombone List is due to have severe changes, >if not a complete ending SOON! > >ÊÊÊÊÊJust in case you, ............., are not able to read >this E-Mail during your busy weekend, I will copy it >to a few other members of the Trombone List. Some >of them have already expressed confusion of the List >Monitors extreme reaction to my ordinary E-Mail a >week ago. Now he'll have something real to worry >about. Either way, That List Monitor is going to be >removed from the Internet for a long time, if not per- >manently. Frankly, I think he'd be better helped by a >psychiatrist. This Lawsuit could end the Trombone >List. > > >ÊÊÊÊÊBear Woodson >ÊÊÊÊÊComposer in Tucson, Arizona, USA > >"Bear" Thomas C. Woodson >3636 N. Campbell Ave. >ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊApt. 3119 >Tucson,ÊÊÊÊÊAZ,ÊÊÊÊÊU. S. A. >ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ8 5 7 1 9 - 1 5 4 5 As his message is a threat to both the members of this list and the people who work to support it, this is a rightful and appropriate place to post it. Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:17:39 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <0pcl8ugi68b1efqgeeev7nso8e416ls3k1@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced "Jon Moeller" 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >This threat is so empty its not even funny. > Yeah, I think in order to sue someone you have to know who it is. :) Since our LM has pretty well concealed his/her identity from 99% of us (and I'm sure that Eric Nicklas no longer has time for it, so I don't think it's him), that's going to be a fun quest. So far as suing because he was removed from the list? When the judge recovers his/her composure from laughing on the bench, it will all be over with. You can't sue for being removed from a mailing list anymore than you can sue because someone refused to let you drive their car. It's ludicrous. Allegedly. Michael Shoshani Chicago IL ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:20:07 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced Bruce Faske 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >I don't think one single court in this land would try this case. It would >be dismissed within minutes. Maybe I'm crazy or stupid (probably both), but >doesn't the list monitor (who I assume is also the person who created the >list) have the right to dismiss anyone from membership if they feel >justified to do so? I dont' think the monitor would just arbitrarily >dismiss someone without a valid reason. The List Monitor has that right, and that is spelled out for anyone who subscribes to the list. I don't believe the current LM is the person who started this list, but I could be mistaken. The list was started by Eric Nicklas, and when his wife had a child a while ago the announcement was made by the LM in the third person. So I don't believe Eric is the current Monitor. Could be wrong, though. MS Chicago ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:22:47 -0000 From: "Keith Marr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: List Monitor Message-ID: <002701c1c7d2$1a46ed40$e60086d9@tiny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First one to find out who the LM is emails the list with the message "The List Monitor is and I claim my $10". ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:29:31 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced "Keith Marr" 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >First one to find out who the LM is emails the list with the message "The >List Monitor is and I claim my $10". Don't. LM wants to be incognito. Perhaps there's an extremely good reason for that. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:01:40 -0800 From: "The Snead Family" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: <000c01c1c7d7$8557e2b0$0600a8c0@k6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In the off chance that this isn't a joke ... I'm on a number of internet mail lists and this one is by far the most vibrant and soulful. This means that there is a spark among us that can't be extinguished by one toad. The wonder of the internet is that if he manages to kill this venue we will simply reconvene elsewhere ... -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of richard human Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 11:36 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Text of Woodsan's message Here is the message sent to a small subset of people from Mr. Woodsan. >ÊÊÊÊÊ......this is what's going to happen. If the Trom- >bone List Monitor does NOT re-instate me to the Trom- >bone List by Monday Evening, March 9, 2002, and >apologize publicly to the entire Trombone List by >Tuesday, March 10, 2002, I will contact my lawyer and >begin the Lawsuit against the Trombone List Monitor. > >ÊÊÊÊÊThe US Federal Department of Education can tell >you that I have already proven my case to them: that >the University of Arizona and Professor Daniel Asia, >are indeed guilty of numerous violations State and >Federal Education and Disability Laws, plus lying to >Federal Investigators and Obstructing Justice. They are >looking down the barrel of actual jail time, not to men- >tion the end of their careers. They are not supposed to >reveal their findings until sometime in May 2002, but >we all know I will win. > >ÊÊÊÊÊThen in the Summer of 2002 comes the Civilian >Lawsuit, which will get me several million dollars, >likely over 20 Million. However nothing can improve >my rare genetic trait for bad liver, and my Adult On- >Set Diabetes, so nothing will change the fact that I >only have a few years left. Since I was never capable >of greed, I will establish Foundations to help Disabled >People and Talented Musicians for the rest of the >century, long after I'm dead. > >ÊÊÊÊÊI am now wallowing in good lawyers, and therefore >have a lot of clout, but I don't need it. I have broken >NO FCC Laws of any kind, so the accusations of the >Trombone List Monitor are Defamations of Character. > >ÊÊÊÊÊWhen I sue, I will insist that THAT List Monitor be >banned from the Internet for at least One Year, and >be required to have Psychological help. If I have to >close This Trombone List forever, so be it. They can >always open a New Trombone List, as long as THAT >List Monitor is NOT on the Internet. > >ÊÊÊÊÊSince, in a few months, I will have more money >than I can ever need, (and I need fairly little for myself), >any proceeds from the Lawsuit against the Trombone >List Monitor, (who sees insults and threats that aren't >there), can go to help real people with real problems. >But THIS Trombone List is due to have severe changes, >if not a complete ending SOON! > >ÊÊÊÊÊJust in case you, ............., are not able to read >this E-Mail during your busy weekend, I will copy it >to a few other members of the Trombone List. Some >of them have already expressed confusion of the List >Monitors extreme reaction to my ordinary E-Mail a >week ago. Now he'll have something real to worry >about. Either way, That List Monitor is going to be >removed from the Internet for a long time, if not per- >manently. Frankly, I think he'd be better helped by a >psychiatrist. This Lawsuit could end the Trombone >List. > > >ÊÊÊÊÊBear Woodson >ÊÊÊÊÊComposer in Tucson, Arizona, USA > >"Bear" Thomas C. Woodson >3636 N. Campbell Ave. >ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊApt. 3119 >Tucson,ÊÊÊÊÊAZ,ÊÊÊÊÊU. S. A. >ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ8 5 7 1 9 - 1 5 4 5 As his message is a threat to both the members of this list and the people who work to support it, this is a rightful and appropriate place to post it. Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:20:05 EST From: Bredmanjr@aol.com To: shoshani@attbi.com, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: <96.22fed91a.29bc1cd5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/9/02 7:30:10 PM Central Standard Time, shoshani@attbi.com writes: << Don't. LM wants to be incognito. Perhaps there's an extremely good reason for that. >> The List Monitor for the Trombone-L is Chris Waage. This is not a guarded secret. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:22:35 -0500 From: sabutin To: sneads@gte.net Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Woodson and the big fuss Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Please...this is just another poor fool. He's not dangerous, except possibly to himself. Enough already...FUGGEDABOUDIT!!! S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:34:33 -0600 From: E P LUKAS To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: trom7805@aol.com Subject: Forward: Memphis Symphony Opening Message-ID: <3C8AC639.8671493D@bigfoot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Just spreading the word about the fact that there is 2nd trombone opening in the Memphis Symphony starting with 2002/03 season. It is a per service position but it could be decent position for someone in a certain chapter of his/her career/life. Anyone interested in more info please feel to write back to me. The audition is scheduled for April 14th at 1:30 I believe. The job is advertised in the International Musician. Interested individuals may write to: The Memphis Symphony Orchestra 3100 Walnut Grove,Suite 501 Attn.Mr. Doug Mayes, Personnel Manager Memphis,Tennessee 38111 Sincerely, Greg Luscombe Principal trombone My Email address is: trom7805@aol.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:29:52 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020309202912.0197c308@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:22 AM 3/10/2002 +0000, Keith Marr wrote: First one to find out who the LM is emails the list with the message "The List Monitor is and I claim my $10". The List Monitor is Mr. Insert Name of Blanksville, Pennsylvania, and I claim my $10. :-) Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1*:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:29:14 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced Bredmanjr@aol.com's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: >In a message dated 3/9/02 7:30:10 PM Central Standard Time, >shoshani@attbi.com writes: > ><< Don't. LM wants to be incognito. Perhaps there's an extremely good > reason for that. >> > >The List Monitor for the Trombone-L is Chris Waage. This is not a guarded >secret. That's been asserted on the OTJ Forum as well, but I've never seen Chris say anything about it. He posts under his own name as well, when announcing OTJ Classifieds updates; if it were out in the open, why would List Monitor posts only be signed "LM"? I'm on several mailing lists and Trombone-L is the only one I'm on where the monitor/administrator assumes an identityless identity. All the others I'm on, we know the name and personal email box for the administrator. MS ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:35:39 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I, too, am pretty sure that the LM is a discrete individual, involved only as such. Incidentally, the LM is not the one who created the Trombone-L, as that was Eric Nicklas (if I spelled that right) and he always posted under his own name. -Aaron R. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:04:50 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" When Eric Nicklas set up the listmonitor position several years ago, it was one individual who was charged with all tasks on the list. However, over the past several years, this has evolved into one individual who handles the technical aspects of the list (subscription issues, posting issues, etc.) and a group of individuals who provide advice when major decisions have to be made, such as the removal of someone who choses to ignore repeated warnings or blatantly violates list guidelines. There have been times when immediate action was required, and the original listmonitor took the action then consulted the others. Each of the advisors was chosen based upon his or her qualifications, either as an educator, performer, or as a non-music professional. It was attempted to form a group representing a cross-section of the list's membership, and it works quite well. How did the listmonitor end up with a "trombone.org" e-mail address? Richard Human of the Online Trombone Journal graciously offered me an e-mail address when the OTJ offered to host the trombone-l digest archives (available at http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l/). This made his job of adminstering the list easier, and provided an easy-to-remember e-mail address for list members to e-mail. 99.5% of the time, the trombone-l is an open and honest meetingplace for musicians to exchange ideas, information and the occasional joke. Adrian Drover once created the analogy of the list being like the traditional Irish neighborhood pub. The listmonitor is like the tapster who makes sure everyone gets served, clears the empties, and occasionally has to remind someone to "Mind their P's and Q's." Usually, it's a fun position, but there are times when it isn't. There are times when difficult things must be done, and while not an enjoyable activity, someone must do them. The anonymity issue has been a continued area of discussion, and quite frankly, it does make for interesting discussion. However, I would ask that the discussion move back to trombones and related issues, rather than the listmonitor. LM -- --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:51:42 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Michael Shoshani" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Text of Woodsan's message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The List Monitor has that right, and that is spelled out for anyone who subscribes to the list. I don't believe the current LM is the person who started this list, but I could be mistaken. The list was started by Eric Nicklas, and when his wife had a child a while ago the announcement was made by the LM in the third person. So I don't believe Eric is the current Monitor. That is correct, the List Monitor (LM) is NOT the List owner. Tom Could be wrong, though. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:38:24 -0800 From: emrose79@pacbell.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: searching out #s Message-ID: <3C8AFF60.9E66CC20@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I bought my Duo Gravis in 1968, but the # list says 1970-1975. Ed Fred Hudson wrote: > > I bought my 2B #299013 new in 1950 which coincides nicely with the UMI -King > SN list > > Fred Hudson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Albert" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:52 PM > Subject: RE: searching out #s > > > That's what I get for answering before I do someone else's web search. > > 300,000 is the approximate 1950 number, not 500,000. > > > > http://www.unitedmusical.com/ is the website. They cloak the > > addresses, so I can't give you the straight link, but click on King, > > then serial # history. > > > > It lists #95x xxx as 1983-1984. It lists 206730 as 1935-1940, although > > I am not disputing that Butch got his 201 xxx in 1951. It might just > > speak to the accuracy of that list. > > > > Jeff Albert > > > > www.jeffalbert.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu > > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Hector Bourg > > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:33 PM > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > Subject: Re: searching out #s > > > > Jeff Albert wrote: > > > > >The UMI site has a rough King serial number list. My understanding is > > >that 500,000 was roughly 1950, > > > > > > > Jeff, > > > > My 2B's # is 206730 and was manufactured in 1951 (when I received it > > new)...so I would assume that #950000 was much, much later. > > > > Butch > > > > ****************************************************** > > Hector "Butch" Bourg Jr. - Graphic and Web Design - Atlanta, GA > > Trombonist - Sentimental Journey Orchestra - http://www.thesjo.com > > ** NOW CELEBRATING TWENTY-SIX SWINGIN' YEARS ** > > ****************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > >and 600,000 was roughly 1965. #956240 > > >would be 80's or newer, in my estimate. > > > > > >Jeff Albert > > > > > >www.jeffalbert.com > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu > > >[mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of E Anderson > > >Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:05 PM > > >To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > >Subject: searching out #s > > > > > >Is there a web site or other place? where a person can determine what > > >model > > >a trombone is by serial #? > > >I have a lead on a King with #956240. It is old and going cheap. It > > >may be > > >nothing more than a 606, but I am curious and the owner has no idea > > what > > >bore size or anything and lives far away. > > > > > > > > >Later, > > > > > >Elliott > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:22:19 -0800 From: Bodie Pfost To: Trombone Mailing List Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: <3C8B25CB.1766553B@humboldt1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear "List Monitor", Why is it that we still don't know who YOU are? I didn't elect you, and nobody else here did. Who says that YOU should be anonymous? Why do YOU get to make decisions about the list personnel when nobody even knows who YOU really are? Who owns this list? They should be the ONLY one who can remove a subscriber. All of my posts go to lists.missouri.edu. Seems to me that someone from the University of Missouri-Columbia is the owner of the list. Well, are you? Listmonitor Trombone-L wrote: > The anonymity issue has been a continued area of > discussion, and > quite frankly, it does make for interesting > discussion. However, I > would ask that the discussion move back to trombones > and related > issues, rather than the listmonitor. > > LM God forbid we might ask questions as to who or what we are being governed by. You quoted an analogy to an Irish Pub, but it was all wrong. You see, in an Irish Pub, you know the bartender's name, you see his face, and you know that he will serve you a pint of Guinness if you give him money. A) I don't know who you are. B) I don't know what services you are providing the list. Or rather, I don't know what services you should be providing the list. I have been debating continuing my subscription to the Trombone-L. It seems to me that I spend more time checking my email than I do practicing my trombone. This is definitely not a good thing. I suppose you would like it if I were to unsubscribe... that would be one less person asking questions. Really, the only thing that keeps me on this list is reading the posts everyday that truly are beneficial to me. More often than not, everybody's posts are beneficial, including "Bear" Woodson. I don't think that a list member should be removed from the list for suggesting contrary ideas. Even if they are contrary to (gasp) the List Monitor's ideas!!! Just because you don't like what a list member says, doesn't mean that that person doesn't have the right to say it. What exactly was it that caused you to remove Mr. Woodson from Trombone-L anyway. Don't you think that we have a right to know? Sincerely, Bodie Pfost ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:59:52 +0000 From: Nigel Horne To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Cc: TboneCentral@yahoogroups.com Subject: Vacancies for March 2002 Message-ID: <02031010595200.02474@smsltd.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is a list of brass bands with vacancies for trombone players. For the most up to date list, visit http://www.bandsman.co.uk. To advertise a vacancy here fill out the form on-line at http://www.bandsman.co.uk/vform.htm Vacancies will be deleted after 3 months and are listed in order of Country, County/State/Province and Town. Surfers Paradise Brass Band (updated 14/1/02), Gold Coast, QUEENSLAND, AustraliaMoreland Brunswick Band (updated 18/2/02), Melbourne, VICTORIA, Australia Thames Citizens Band (updated 28/2/02), Thames, WAIKATO, New Zealand Titan Hutt City Brass (updated 15/1/02), Lower Hutt, WELLINGTON, New Zealand Sdertrns Brass (updated 23/12/01), Stockholm, Sweden Dodington Parish Band (updated 20/1/02), Yate, AVON, United Kingdom Pangbourne and District Silver Band (updated 9/1/02), Reading, BERKSHIRE, United Kingdom Broseley Brass (updated 14/2/02), Loughton, BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, United Kingdom Marlow Town Band (updated 7/3/02), Marlow, BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, United Kingdom Histon and Impington Band (updated 28/2/02), Histon, CAMBRIDGESHIRE, United Kingdom Carrbrook Brass (updated 28/2/02), Stalybridge, CHESHIRE, United Kingdom Liskeard Silver Band (updated 12/12/01), Liskeard, CORNWALL, United Kingdom Sacriston Colliery Silver Band (updated 5/1/02), Durham, COUNTY DURHAM, United Kingdom Bearpark and Esh Colliery Band (updated 20/2/02), Esh Winning, COUNTY DURHAM, United Kingdom Aunt Bessies East Yorkshire Brass (updated 14/2/02), Driffield, EAST YORKSHIRE, United Kingdom Fullwell Brass Band (updated 12/12/01), Barkingside, ESSEX, United Kingdom Grays Town Band (updated 19/2/02), Grays, ESSEX, United Kingdom Rayleigh Brass (updated 18/1/02), Rayleigh, ESSEX, United Kingdom Basingstoke Silver Band (updated 7/3/02), Basingstoke, HAMPSHIRE, United KingdomHannington Silver Band (updated 27/2/02), Basingstoke, HAMPSHIRE, United KingdomPortsmouth City Band (updated 11/1/02), Portsmouth, HAMPSHIRE, United Kingdom Ocean Brass (updated 28/2/02), Southampton, HAMPSHIRE, United Kingdom Potters Bar Town Band (updated 11/1/02), Potters Bar, HERTFORDSHIRE, United Kingdom City Of Rochester Brass (updated 28/2/02), Strood, KENT, United Kingdom Blackburn and Darwen Band (updated 21/2/02), Blackburn, LANCASHIRE, United Kingdom Freckleton Brass Band (updated 25/2/02), Preston, LANCASHIRE, United Kingdom Poulton Le Fylde Silver Band (updated 28/12/01), Poulton Le Fylde, LANCASHIRE, United Kingdom Whitworth Vale and Healey Band (updated 21/2/02), Rochdale, LANCASHIRE, United Kingdom Standish Brass Band (updated 15/12/01), Standish, LANCASHIRE, United Kingdom Kibworth Band (updated 28/12/01), Kibworth, LEICESTERSHIRE, United Kingdom Enderby Band (updated 7/3/02), Leicester, LEICESTERSHIRE, United Kingdom Capital Concert Brass (updated 29/1/02), Greenford, LONDON, United Kingdom Flixton Band (updated 15/1/02), Flixton, MANCHESTER, United Kingdom Irlam Brass (updated 5/3/02), Irlam, MANCHESTER, United Kingdom Staines Brass (updated 28/1/02), Staines, MIDDLESEX, United Kingdom Skipton Brass (updated 4/3/02), Skipton, NORTH YORKSHIRE, United Kingdom Brackley and District Silver Band (updated 10/12/01), Brackley, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, United Kingdom Daventry Brass (updated 7/3/02), Daventry, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, United Kingdom Ashington Colliery Band (updated 14/1/02), Ashington, NORTHUMBERLAND, United Kingdom Carlton Brass (updated 14/12/01), Nottingham, NOTTINGHAMSHIRE, United Kingdom Kirkby Colliery Welfare Band (updated 20/2/02), Sutton-in-Ashfield, NOTTINGHAMSHIRE, United Kingdom Wem Jubilee Band (updated 29/1/02), Wem, SHROPSHIRE, United Kingdom Tongwynlais Temperance Silver Band (updated 20/1/02), Tongwynlais, SOUTH GLAMORGAN, United Kingdom Oughtibridge Brass Band (updated 11/1/02), Sheffield, SOUTH YORKSHIRE, United Kingdom Haverhill Silver Band (updated 24/1/02), Haverhill, SUFFOLK, United Kingdom The Wrentham Band (updated 28/2/02), Lowestoft, SUFFOLK, United Kingdom Cobham Band (updated 2/1/02), Cobham, SURREY, United Kingdom Haslemere Town Band (updated 5/3/02), Haslemere, HAMPSHIRE, United Kingdom Phoenix West Midlands Brass (updated 6/12/01), Old Hill, WEST MIDLANDS, United Kingdom Shirley Band (updated 11/1/02), Shirley, WEST MIDLANDS, United Kingdom Hebden Bridge Junior Band (updated 25/2/02), Hebden Bridge, WEST YORKSHIRE, United Kingdom Yorkshire Traction and Honley Silver Band (updated 16/1/02), Huddersfield, WEST YORKSHIRE, United Kingdom Stanley Newmarket Colliery Band (updated 22/12/01), Leeds, WEST YORKSHIRE, United Kingdom Silsden Town Band (updated 28/1/02), Silsden, WEST YORKSHIRE, United Kingdom Swindon Pegasus Brass (updated 18/1/02), Swindon, WILTSHIRE, United Kingdom West Mercia Constabulary Band (updated 4/1/02), Worcester, WORCESTERSHIRE, United Kingdom Brass Band Northwest (updated 16/1/02), Bellevue, WA, United States -- Nigel Horne. Arranger, Composer, Typesetter. Owner of the brass band group of the Internet. ICQ#20252325 njh@bandsman.co.uk http://www.bandsman.co.uk/music.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:12:18 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Once again...please FUGGEDABOUDIT. What earthly difference does it make who the listmonitor is or isn't? He/she/it is doing an excellent job, as the several posts favorably comparing this list to many others will attest. I mean...first Bear Whatsisname (who has been on my automatic don't read list since his first vaguely paranoid post), now "Who's the listmonitor?" Spring MUST be coming...it's silly season right here in River City. (It's enough to make you yearn for another good old Slide-O-Mix debate.) Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:13:26 -0000 From: "Steve Cordingley" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: The "orchestral teacher" pitfall (was RE: Olds V Conn Tuition) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1C82C.FB8B2140" Steve OHHHHHH...this is EXACTLY the path down which so many good young players are herded, and precisely the reason I wrote The American Trombone and have gotten so involved in writing on the net over the past several years. May I have your permission to quote this when I try to make the argument that there is more than one valid way to learn the horn? Hi Sam, Good to hear from you again. IÕm glad you see things that way Ð though I imagined you would. Please feel free to quote me any time you like. And IÕll get myself a T shirt saying Sam Burtis quotes me Ð IÕm *that* famousÉ :-D) And thanks to you ad the other list contributors for your supporting and encouraging words. Steve in England -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of sabutin Sent: 08 March 2002 20:49 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: The "orchestral teacher" pitfall (was RE: Olds V Conn Tuition) ======================= I now see that doing that was a bit gutless of me but realising that my dad and most of his contemporaries on the professional scene were bored and less well paid than they should be played a part in that too. =============== Some quit playing; others quit trying to play jazz amd NONE of it is necessary. ================== I've dipped in a couple of times since then but have returned with more purpose this time. I am looking for a teacher - really I am - but feel tremendously nervous of making the same mistakes again. For that reason, I've been working on all the basics (breathing, long notes, flexibilities, scales, arpeggios and learning favourite stuff by ear and struggling with a few studies) but do now need to get some time with a good teacher. Sabutin has been a help (American Trombone) as have things like Circuit Training for Trombone Players and so has the List. And a list of this quality in the UK would good! Thanks again for your help and guidance - it's much appreciated. Steve in England. ========== Well, in a sense, this list IS "in" the UK. it has no nationality...the more UK members join it, the more "UK-ish" it will be. Later... Sam ---snip--- ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:20:06 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 6:01 PM -0500 3/9/02, Bruce Guttman wrote: Reynolds build some of the earliest double valve bass trombones; dependant in F and E. They had a unique wrap where part of the F-attachment actually pointed forward toward the bell. The development of the modern double valve trombone in the early 60's was due to the nearly simulatneous thinking of Edward Kleinhammer, bass trombonist of the Chicago Symphony, and Kauko Kahila, bass trombonist of the Boston Symphony. The Bartok Concerto for Orchestra glissando from low B---->F was the precipitating factor which led both Kleinhammer and Kahila to try to find a solution to the problem (the gliss is easily played on the F bass trombone which Bartok had in mind, but not on the B flat trombone with one valve). Kleinhammer began working with the Holton Company and their solution was to have a detachable 2nd valve which could be put into the first valve tubing. A long linkage was attached to a paddle which was attached to the main bell brace. Kleinhammer played on this horn for a few years in the 60's and it was a sensible solution to the problem. Kahila worked with the Reynolds Company and they came up with the idea of a permanently attached 2nd valve. It worked well, and the dependent valve bass trombone became the standard double valve trombone until the in-line trombone came around in the 1970's (I and many other players still prefer the dependent set up for a variety of reasons). Kahila still has his horn and still practices an hour a day on it. Kahila and Kleinhammer are both 82 years old this year and are in excellent health. Interestingly enough, when I was in Edinburgh last summer, I saw an E flat contrabass trombone made in the 1930's which had been owned by the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. The trombone had 2 IN LINE valves. This was quite a surprise to me, and evidence that the development of the inline bass trombone in the 1970's was not a new thing. Question: why did it take so long for someone to think to put 2 valves on a bass trombone when it had been done to a contrabass trombone in the 1930's.... -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:41:04 -0500 From: "John McVey" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: <09c301c1c830$d806e340$6501a8c0@mhjlm00> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Trombone-L list operates at the the pleasure and discretion of its creators and owners. It is a free-for-all roundtable dicussion vehicle on the Internet. It is not a right. It could disappear tomorrow or you could be unsubscribed tomorrow, and there is, nor should there be, any recourse, other than a reasonable off-line discussion, after which, if you agree to follow the rules, you might be reinstated. If you do not like what you read, or don't like or want to follow the rules under which it is operated, then leave. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:52:39 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Wayne Dyess" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bending pitches Message-ID: <004a01c1c832$a91e74b0$8098fc3e@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Wayne Dyess" > >Sounds like my first visit to the bathroom this morning. Not quite pedal > >Bb, but close. Tho' it wasn't Toblerone. More like Guinness and mutton > >vindaloo. Very rich in overtones. > > ===================== > > Hey WAIT!!!!! My new G16 Appletosan computer has smell-o-vision, > and I am highly offended by your post to trombone-L. If you think that's bad, wait till you find a manila envelope in your mailbox containing my new concerto number two and five eighths for solo trombone in Db with massed bagpipe choir (originally scored for 3 Ab bassoons and motorbike). If you don't include it in your next concert and say nice things about it, I will be getting in touch with my private army of lawyers. They will delight in banning the trombone from all public performances internationally. This may mean a lot of extra work on my part, having to rescore all of my trombone repertoire to feature piccolo, oboe, Eb clarinet, violin, contrabassoon, double bass and Navajo nose pipe, but it will be well worth the effort if I can rid the world of a silly slide instrument that resembles a Swannee whistle with a brass mouthpiece. Getting sent and mental over you, Koala Woodwind. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:01:15 -0000 From: "Edward Solomon" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug Yeo said: "Interestingly enough, when I was in Edinburgh last summer, I saw an E flat contrabass trombone made in the 1930's which had been owned by the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. The trombone had 2 IN LINE valves. This was quite a surprise to me, and evidence that the development of the inline bass trombone in the 1970's was not a new thing. Question: why did it take so long for someone to think to put 2 valves on a bass trombone when it had been done to a contrabass trombone in the 1930's...." Actually, the in-line double valve concept dates back to 1921: Ernst Dehmels' "new" contrabass trombone was designed to replace the BBb double-slided contrabass trombone with an F bass trombone equipped with valves to complete the range by adding the notes between low B and (pedal) F. This was later improved by Hans Kunitz in 1963 when Alexander of Mainz built the "Cimbasso" model based on his design. So it's not a new concept at all. It was just applied to the F bass trombone to make a bass/contrabass instrument and replace the older (true) contrabass in BBb. __________________________________________ Edward Solomon British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:03:40 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Mr. Pfost: The list's owner is Eric Nicklas, who founded the trombone-l. Due to work and family concerns, Eric reached a point where he was unable to keep up with the trombone-l, and recruited help. As was stated in this post, it started as one individual, but as the situation developed, that one individual chose to start relying on the judgement of several trusted long-term list members. I will answer your concerns to the best of my ability. A) I don't know who you are. Does it truly matter? In the electronic age, as has been proven on many instances, the "name" given on any e-mail can easily be forged. While this may not satisfy your curiousity, please rest assured that Mr. Nicklas has complete and total overseeing powers and, along with the several members of the informal "advisory group," is always consulted on serious list-related issues. B) I don't know what services you are providing the list. Or rather, I don't know what services you should be providing the list. On a regular basis, the listmonitor deals with new subscriptions, changing member e-mail addresses, handling errors generated by the listprocessor software (between 100 to 500 or more per day), dealing with attempted spamming of the list which happens on a frequent basis, and helping users who are having problems posting or receiving messages. It is a rather dull, tedious affair, and is rather time-consuming for a completely volunteer position. I don't think that a list member should be removed from the list for suggesting contrary ideas. Even if they are contrary to (gasp) the List Monitor's ideas!!! Just because you don't like what a list member says, doesn't mean that that person doesn't have the right to say it. What exactly was it that caused you to remove Mr. Woodson from Trombone-L anyway. Don't you think that we have a right to know? Mr. Woodson was not removed from the list for suggesting contrary ideas. This is a discussion group, and the decisions for list removal are based upon a strict interpretation of the list guidelines (a copy of which you received when you originally subscribed). I do not discuss the removal of list members on the list. The reason for this is to avoid the waste of bandwidth such is occuring with the current issue of the removal of Mr. Woodson. I will not change this policy. I am sorry if you have an issue with the anonymity of the listmonitor, and you are completely entitled to your opinion. If you would like the position, there are times when it would freely be given to you. Do you honestly belive that the constant flow of abusive e-mails received is enjoyed? I have been called every name in the book, threatened with physical violence, deluged with unsolicited bulk e-mail, and spent far too much of my personal time attempting to pacify individuals who are acting in a childish manner simply because they disagreed over some trivial issue. Now I have the dubious honor of being threatened with "Being Banned from the Internet for One Year" along with legal action. The listmonitor position was created to provide rapid support to list members in the event of any list-related problems. It is believed that this goal is constantly being met, and I make no apologies whatsoever for remaining anonymous. LM -- --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:37:58 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all... I originally posted this on the OTJ Forum, and thought I'd like to share it w/the trombone-l as well. Any comments or questions, please feel free...I am in (for me) fairly new territory, and would love some input from others. ================ Originally posted by stonebone: I use Charles Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities. With this book you proceed through the intervals without tonguing anything. You must use the force of your air column (via your diaphragm) while controlling that column with your lips to produce the notes. This gives you great practice at supporting high notes. The exercises are at an ever-increasing range. ---snip--- ======================== Here's another look at just HOW exercises that don't use the tongue (and there are many...much of Scholssberg, Carmine Caruso and Remington, for example) help the high range. All the ranges, reallyÉ I am just beginning to understand and appreciate the dynamics of the tongue and its effects on the airstream in relation to the various ranges of the horn. I have for several years advocated m'pce buzzing and free buzzing as ways to improve the embouchure, and one of the ways that I have believed these techniques worked was to center the necessary resistance at the lips, where it could be controlled, rather than relying on the equipment to provide it. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that this resistance is properly controlled not only by the lips but by the tongue as well. There have been mentions in the mainstream brass literature of the tongue as being the sole mechanism in the production of so-called lip trills. I can't recall just where I have seen this, but especially in trumpet literature the idea that rapidly doing something that would produce an effect like "Tah-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh-ee-ahh" with the tongue while playing a note would in itself produce a change in pitch. When I tried this many years ago, all it did was change the timbre of the note, so I forgot about it. HoweverÉin the process, I forgot completely about the tongue and its relation to pitch and air. This is not necessarily a "bad" thingÉthe less you are consciously thinking about when you play or practice, the better off you will be, in my opinionÉbut then again, every bite of the apple of knowledge can have potentially good effects as well, if used correctly. Which brings us toÉin the course of practicing slow, untongued harmonics from the lower ranges into the higher, it dawned on me about 2 months ago that my tongue (and when I say "tongue", I mean the whole thingÉfront, middle and back) was VERY involved in the guidance of the airstream, most noticeably in the altissimo register around and above the F at the top of the treble clef. It was arching in the middle and back in that range to produce an almost supercharged effectÉessentially providing a guided resistance that sped up and centered the air. Further, I found that when I tried to TONGUE up there, the act of tonguing itself destabilized this system somewhat. Eureka time!!! I had read somewhereÉplease, anyone who knows who this trumpet teacher is, let me know (Maggio? Stevens?)Éof a trumpet tonguing system that utilized a sort of 1/2 double tonguing technique, where the actual articulation in the higher ranges was to be done w/the middle of the tongue rather than the tip, the idea apparently being to keep the tip of the tongue out of the way of the airstream When I tried it on trombone, it didn't work very well and I discarded it, thinking that it was probably trumpet specific. However, this tongue positioning concept made me consider in a new light the essentially tongueless approaches of so many great jazz players., especially upper register players. Frank Rosolino, Lawrence Brown, Urbie Green, Willie Dennis, Jimmy KnepperÉand possibly the doodle tonguers as wellÉCarl Fontana, Bill WatrousÉ Now back to the original ideaÉpracticing untongued exercises of any kind will help the high register enormously, because the tongue doesn't have to do double duty. Once the phrase is initially started, the tongue can stop being an articulator and concentrate on being a partial resistor, a valve that concentrates and directs the airstream and helps the lips produce the necessary resistance. Further, even in other ranges the same concept holds true. I have added to my repertoire of connecting exercises variations that use no tongue at all after the initial attackÉshort and long scales and scale patterns particularly, through every range from pedals to altissimo.. I just use a straight, uninterrupted airstream, utilizing the natural breaks of the horn and the slide (glisses and all) to do all of the work of changing notes. This allows the tongue to do its thing unencumbered by other responsibilities, and an as a side effect makes me move my slide REALLY quickly, accurately and efficiently. (No tongue to mask sloppy slide work.) I've only scratched the surface of this, and have no idea how (or even if) I will reintegrate the tongue into this systemÉbut I've been thinking about writing to the forum about it recently, and the above post spurred me to do so. I haven't covered these ideas in my method book or articles on the OTJ so far, because I'm still up in the air about them, and welcome any and all comments or questions you may have. LaterÉ Sam Burtis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:49:27 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: List Monitor Message-ID: <3qvm8ucqncvgso8n4q5i23et2mjor8pcmo@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced sabutin 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: > Once again...please FUGGEDABOUDIT. > > What earthly difference does it make who the listmonitor is or isn't? > > He/she/it is doing an excellent job, as the several posts >favorably comparing this list to many others will attest. Yes, my argument exactly. LM wants to remain anonymous (and perhaps there are more than one) but is doing a great job considering the occasional pressures. My mentioning of his remaining anonymous doesn't mean I deplore it; personally, I'd rather not know. Makes it more fun. :) But I think it's unnecessary to mention names of persons who already post here under their own names, because if the LM wanted all of us to know his identity he would have removed his mask, stood up in his saddle, and announced I AM DAN REID, THE LONE RANGER. I'm sure that our LM could use a pint himself today :) MS ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:02:05 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Various ranges (especially high range) and the tongue Message-ID: <980n8u4cjujc9dnl4eg8dkiqkka58c1mrn@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've secretly replaced sabutin 's message with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if anyone notices: > I had read somewhereÉplease, anyone who knows who this trumpet >teacher is, let me know (Maggio? Stevens?)Éof a trumpet tonguing >system that utilized a sort of 1/2 double tonguing technique, where >the actual articulation in the higher ranges was to be done w/the >middle of the tongue rather than the tip, the idea apparently being >to keep the tip of the tongue out of the way of the airstream When I >tried it on trombone, it didn't work very well and I discarded it, >thinking that it was probably trumpet specific. However, this tongue >positioning concept made me consider in a new light the essentially >tongueless approaches of so many great jazz players., especially >upper register players. Frank Rosolino, Lawrence Brown, Urbie Green, >Willie Dennis, Jimmy KnepperÉand possibly the doodle tonguers as >wellÉCarl Fontana, Bill WatrousÉ > I have a book on speaking and singing by one Dr. Montefiore, who was apparently the ear-nose-throat physician for "The Other" Caruso, Enrico. The book is called "The Caruso Method of Singing", and in it Dr. Montefiore compares the way phonetic sounds were produced (circa 1921) by those who lived life in the open air, such as Italians, who devloped great diction and clarity of speech, and those who lived in close quarters, such as the English and Americans, whose speech tended to be mumbled through clenched teeth with no opening of the vocal apparatus. He then diagrammed the position of the tongue and teeth for every phoneme in English and Italian, both the "right" way and the "wrong" way. In nearly every instance, particularly with vowels, the "right" way had the tongue lying as flat as possible on the floor of the mouth. The "wrong" way had the tongue up in the middle of the airstream, near the roof of the mouth. It was Dr. Montefiore's opinion that the tongue should be out of the way as much as possible when speaking and singing, because its presence in the airflow affected the production of vowel sounds, which he considered more important that that of consonants. The idea of consonants, to him, is to softly modify the vowels as they come out of the mouth--not to impede them in any way. I'm starting to see a parallel between these ideas and what's being discussed lately regarding embouchre and tonguing for the trombone: the lips produce the tone, and perhaps resonances inside the mouth and chest color the tone a bit, but the tongue works better the less it's used; it serves better as a modifier than as a stop-start valve. SINGERS don't use their tongues, lips, or epiglotti to start and stop their own tones; perhaps we rely too much on the tongue when starting tones or changing notes. Experiment time for me! Michael Shoshani Chicago IL ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:01:35 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) Message-ID: <009b01c1c855$3dfdc0a0$020a56d1@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Alex is a great horn, love playing mine Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds Bass Trombone: Clovis CA Community Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg CA City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Solomon" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:01 AM Subject: RE: Reynolds Instruments (double valve bass) > Doug Yeo said: > > "Interestingly enough, when I was in Edinburgh last summer, I saw an E > flat contrabass trombone made in the 1930's which had been owned by > the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. The trombone had 2 IN LINE valves. > This was quite a surprise to me, and evidence that the development of > the inline bass trombone in the 1970's was not a new thing. > Question: why did it take so long for someone to think to put 2 > valves on a bass trombone when it had been done to a contrabass > trombone in the 1930's...." > > Actually, the in-line double valve concept dates back to 1921: Ernst > Dehmels' "new" contrabass trombone was designed to replace the BBb > double-slided contrabass trombone with an F bass trombone equipped with > valves to complete the range by adding the notes between low B and (pedal) > F. This was later improved by Hans Kunitz in 1963 when Alexander of Mainz > built the "Cimbasso" model based on his design. > > So it's not a new concept at all. It was just applied to the F bass trombone > to make a bass/contrabass instrument and replace the older (true) contrabass > in BBb. > > __________________________________________ > > Edward Solomon > British Trombone Society Webmaster > mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk > > Visit "The Trombonist Online" - > the online magazine of the > British Trombone Society > http://www.trombone-society.org.uk > __________________________________________ > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:55:45 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: Trombone-L: Subject: I'm not suggesting anything here Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Howdy friends, I'm not suggesting anything here relative to the recent mailings to the list, but just thought THIS might have been the start of it all: http://www.densa.org/ Visit and see if you agree, Wayne -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2324--