TROMBONE-L Digest 2320 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Finlandia bass part - double tongue by "Paul Hill" 2) Bass Trombone Parts for Sale! by Scott Moore 3) Re: Finlandia bass part by "Bodie Pfost" 4) Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces by "Scott Robinson" 5) RE: Finlandia bass part by "Gary Maxwell" 6) RE: Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 7) Re: Finlandia bass part by Robert Holland 8) Finlandia Program Notes (Long-History) by BassBonist@aol.com 9) Help requested. by "Dean Hubbard" 10) Re: Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces by E P LUKAS 11) ITF 2002 by "Thomas Smee" 12) Re: ITF 2002 by Gabriel Langfur 13) Re: ITF 2002 by Eric & Candice Swanson 14) Sibelius & Machine Guns? by Mike Mathews 15) Fwd: Hall/Ferrell recital by Chris Waage 16) King Bass Bone Gone? by "Arthur Koolen" 17) Re: Sibelius & Machine Guns? by BassBonist@aol.com 18) RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue by "Tom Izzo" 19) RE: ITF 2002 by "Tom Izzo" 20) more on enlarged music by Angie Brunk 21) Re: ITF 2002 by "Joshua Brown" 22) Re: Bass Trombone For Sale by emrose79@pacbell.net 23) Re: Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces by Walter Barrett 24) Re: Doublers? by Brad Howland 25) EIN FESTE BURG for 4 trombones-new publication!! by Gordon Cherry 26) RE: Olds V Conn Tuition by "Steve Cordingley" 27) RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue by brad.miller@highmark.com 28) Re: Olds V Conn by Craig Parmerlee 29) Re: musicians barter project by Wayne Dyess 30) Re: Bass Trombone For Sale by "Keith Marr" 31) RE: Olds V Conn Tuition by Bruce Guttman 32) RE: Olds V Conn by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 33) humor by Howard Weiner ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:00:25 -0800 From: "Paul Hill" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Finlandia bass part - double tongue Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C445.B7BBA4C0" Hi Craig, I agree with you regarding double-tonguing. However, on this particular piece, I "prefer" to single-tongue this figure (more a case of preference thanÊreluctance). I also spend plenty of time working on my single-tonguing and transition to double or triple when my single-tongue speed has been overcome. I prefer to single-tongue whenever possible and do not see it as any more "burdensome" than double/triple-tonguing. Best Regards, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Parmerlee Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:12 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Finlandia bass part - double tongue > 2. Are the professional players able to play this sort of thing? Double-tounged or single? Once again, I seem to find myself with a minority view. I don't understand the reluctance to use double tonguing as the majority seem to say here. A good double tongue cannot be distinguished from a single tongue in terms of clarity of articulation and precision of timing. Of course it gets more difficult to execute as the notes are lower, but low Eb is very achievable. Practice lots of double- and triple-tongued pedals, including moving passages in the pedal register, and you will find that the Eb is not too difficult. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:04:34 -0600 From: Scott Moore To: Trombone List Subject: Bass Trombone Parts for Sale! Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've posted the following on the Trombone.org site (Online Trombone Journal): Edwards Bells 1023CF 1311 Leadpipe Edwards silver B-2 Mouthpiece Yeo Signature Go to http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp for the info. Scott Moore Music Department Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, MN 56082 (507)933-6260 http://www.gustavus.edu/~dmoore ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:50:09 -0800 From: "Bodie Pfost" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Finlandia bass part Message-ID: <3c851361.ad0.0@humboldt1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex wrote: >That is a very colorful, dramatic and imaginative description of the musical >poem but very far from actual reality and facts. > >First of all in 1899 when Finlandia was written Finland was an autonomous >province (guberniya) of the Russian Empire. Finland was never oppressed by >Russia, on the contrary, in 1809 Russia helped the Finns to get rid of the >Swedish rule and established their own government. There was no so called >"Russification" of Finland as the Finnish people never had to learn Russian >language as they had to learn Swedish. They still have to learn Swedish as >their second language. As a matter of fact, the Russian tzar Alexander II was >very much loved by the Finns and they had named after him the main street in >Helsinki Aleksanterinkatu, the square in the center city - Aleksanterinaukio, >the main book store - Aleksanterikirjakauppa, and a cake - >Aleksanterinleivos. They even have the monument to Alexander II in front of >the central cathedral! > >As far as the "machine guns" is concerned, the Russian Army simply didn't >have enough of those guns to fight anybody in 1899. John Moses Browning >produced his first machine-gun in 1890. Knowing even a little history, >Russians never fought Finns until 1936. Even that war, in which the Soviet >Union failed miserably, was about some territorial dispute. The border of >Finland, which was collaborating with the Nazi Germany at the time, was less >than 20 miles from Leningrad where all the Soviet shipyards and ammunition >factories were. > >I am not that smart and educated, I learned half of it from my Finnish >girlfriend. She says she never heard of such musical representations at the >Helsinki Sibelius Academy where she studied. > >Sincerely, > >Alex Siniavski Alex, So what does all of this mean when you are interpreting the music in Finlandia? What is the imagery then, if not machine guns? -Bodie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:38:20 -0400 From: "Scott Robinson" To: TROMBONE-L@po.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Greetings: I'm performing Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces on my junior recital in a couple of weeks, and I'm trying to collect some program notes for all the piece and have been stumped on this one. I've found some information about the composer, but nothing about the work itself. I would appreciate any information that anyone could contribute. Thanks, Scott _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:42:39 -0800 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Finlandia bass part Message-ID: <659829993461CA49942D1312DE3436918309ED@edcenmail1.bcsd.k12.ca.us> Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1C475.8693F6EB" Out of curiosity and not on thread, but do some 'puter programs send "Reply" messages in a "double space" format? Seems like an awful lot os space taken up. BTW, I would, also, single tongue these notes. On pitch indicated. Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra -----Original Message----- From: Bodie Pfost [mailto:bpfost@humboldt1.com] Sent: Tue 3/5/2002 10:50 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Cc:ÊÊÊÊ Subject: Re: Finlandia bass part Alex wrote: >That is a very colorful, dramatic and imaginative description of the musical >poem but very far from actual reality and facts. > >First of all in 1899 when Finlandia was written Finland was an autonomous >province (guberniya) of the Russian Empire. Finland was never oppressed by >Russia, on the contrary, in 1809 Russia helped the Finns to get rid of the >Swedish rule and established their own government. There was no so called >"Russification" of Finland as the Finnish people never had to learn Russian >language as they had to learn Swedish. They still have to learn Swedish as >their second language. As a matter of fact, the Russian tzar Alexander II was >very much loved by the Finns and they had named after him the main street in >Helsinki Aleksanterinkatu, the square in the center city - Aleksanterinaukio, >the main book store - Aleksanterikirjakauppa, and a cake - >Aleksanterinleivos. They even have the monument to Alexander II in front of >the central cathedral! > >As far as the "machine guns" is concerned, the Russian Army simply didn't >have enough of those guns to fight anybody in 1899. John Moses Browning >produced his first machine-gun in 1890. Knowing even a little history, >Russians never fought Finns until 1936. Even that war, in which the Soviet >Union failed miserably, was about some territorial dispute. The border of >Finland, which was collaborating with the Nazi Germany at the time, was less >than 20 miles from Leningrad where all the Soviet shipyards and ammunition >factories were. > >I am not that smart and educated, I learned half of it from my Finnish >girlfriend. She says she never heard of such musical representations at the >Helsinki Sibelius Academy where she studied. > >Sincerely, > >Alex Siniavski Alex, So what does all of this mean when you are interpreting the music in Finlandia? What is the imagery then, if not machine guns? -Bodie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:02:22 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E7124A42@marshall.jmls.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Scott Robinson wrote > I'm performing Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces on my junior recital in a > couple of weeks, and I'm trying to collect some program notes for all the > piece and have been stumped on this one. I've found some information > about > the composer, but nothing about the work itself. > > I would appreciate any information that anyone could contribute. > You have the music and, I assume, two and a half years of theory. Would it be acceptable to use what you have found on Skolnik and then provide your own analysis? You can probably find plenty of notes on other pieces (including a wealth of music for other instruments or voice) to use as a model for the kinds of things you can look for and write about. That should count for research as much as finding material in reference works would. And for pieces by little-known composers that are not frequently performed, it may actually be faster and easier. The first step is to ask your teacher if that is within the rules of your school. If so, run your analysis past both your trombone teacher and your theory teacher. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloging Librarian The John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:11:25 -0600 From: Robert Holland To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Finlandia bass part Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alex Siniavski wrote: >That is a very colorful, dramatic and imaginative description of the musical >poem but very far from actual reality and facts. > >First of all in 1899 when Finlandia was written Finland was an autonomous >province (guberniya) of the Russian Empire. Finland was never oppressed by >Russia, on the contrary, in 1809 Russia helped the Finns to get rid of the >Swedish rule and established their own government. There was no so called >"Russification" of Finland as the Finnish people never had to learn Russian >language as they had to learn Swedish. They still have to learn Swedish as >their second language. As a matter of fact, the Russian tzar Alexander II was >very much loved by the Finns and they had named after him the main street in >Helsinki Aleksanterinkatu, the square in the center city - Aleksanterinaukio, >the main book store - Aleksanterikirjakauppa, and a cake - >Aleksanterinleivos. They even have the monument to Alexander II in front of >the central cathedral! > >As far as the "machine guns" is concerned, the Russian Army simply didn't >have enough of those guns to fight anybody in 1899. John Moses Browning >produced his first machine-gun in 1890. Knowing even a little history, >Russians never fought Finns until 1936. Even that war, in which the Soviet >Union failed miserably, was about some territorial dispute. The border of >Finland, which was collaborating with the Nazi Germany at the time, was less >than 20 miles from Leningrad where all the Soviet shipyards and ammunition >factories were. > >I am not that smart and educated, I learned half of it from my Finnish >girlfriend. She says she never heard of such musical representations at the >Helsinki Sibelius Academy where she studied. I'm glad to see someone dispel fiction offered as fact. I lack the specific historical knowledge of Finland and the work's genesis to do this myself. Plus, lots of nonsense has been written about Finlandia, so much that it's difficult to separate the value from the imaginative. I've always heard that the tongueing motive is meant to depict lightning, but I've no reliable source to cite. It reminds me, though, of a very basic difficulty we have with program music vs. absolute music: does our knowledge of a program (perhaps even an arbitrary one applied to the music rather than springing from the music) change how we perform? Or just how we feel? Or aren't those connected? On the smallest level, can we tell the difference between a B-flat with smiles and a B-flat with tears? Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:42:36 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Finlandia Program Notes (Long-History) Message-ID: <3e.1a4e9d52.29b679ac@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3e.1a4e9d52.29b679ac_boundary" Dear List: I apologize in advance for drifting off trombone content. I you are not interested in some history, read no further and delete. I also apologize for listing something I had read in some liner notes on one of my Finlandia recordings (I own several) which might have been a flight of fancy by the writer of those notes, or may be based on some other source which does have merit. I don't know. Here is where I am going to get long-winded since this is a topic I know something about. Alex Siniavski wrote in part: <> Only half right: While it is true that Finns never had to learn another language as they did under Swedish rule, Russian was declared the official language in 1891, and in 1901, Finland's legislature was stripped of its power, and in 1902 her independent armed forces suddenly found themselves an extension of the Tzars' army. Young men were conscripted to fight the Tzars' wars. The press was controlled and direct petitions to the Tzar were ignored. I refer to these actions as "Russification." Perhaps an inaccurate term... << Knowing even a little history, Russians never fought Finns until 1936. Even that war, in which the Soviet Union failed miserably, was about some territorial dispute.>> On November 30, 1939, Stalin ordered 250,000 Russian troops under the cover of a coordinated air and artillery bombardment into Finland to begin one of the least publicized and most costly campaigns in the annals of military history. And last, I submit the following by Linda Mack: "The closing years of the 19th century saw Czarist Russia tightening its grip on Finland and the growing resistance to this oppression. Although Sibelius kept aloof from overt political activities, he subtly engaged in patriotic activities by nurturing nationalism through his art. For an 1899 festival organized to benefit the Press Pension fund, Sibelius composed music for a series of tableaux on themes of Finnish historical events. Finlandia accompanied the final tableaux which portrayed the devastation of Finland during the 18th century Nordic war: Mother Finland in the snowdrifts surrounded by her starving children. The piece was an instant success, bringing international attention to the composer and the cause of Finnish independence. Sibelius arranged the work as a concert piece in 1900 and, during the winter war of 1939-40, he did a choral arrangement of the hymn portion for use by soldiers serving at the front. The power exhibited by the piece proved to evoke such fervor of nationalist feelings that during times of political unrest in the struggle for Finnish independence, Czarist authorities banned its performance. The struggle against oppression and earnestness of the Finnish people is illustrated through the defiant themes of the brass contrasted with organ-like woodwinds, solemn strings, and a restless allegro with stirring trumpet calls. The peaceful, then majestic hymn-like theme portrays the composer's vision of a triumphant, independent Finland." All right then: I will go with Linda Mack's assertion that the brass punctuations are "defiant." Sorry to stir up a hornets nest with the machine gun theory, but it made sense to me when I read it and gave me some mental imagery to hang onto when playing that lick. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:53:49 -0800 From: "Dean Hubbard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." , Subject: Help requested. Message-ID: <002c01c1c47f$79690160$8502a8c0@bonedean> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, Due to a super-virus, I've lost all three thousand plus entires in my email address book. If I've written to you personally like to or you'd like to remain or subscibe to my San Francisco Bay Area Trombone Day mailing list please send me an email. Thanks for your attention, Dean Hubbard Artist/Clinican for United Musical Instruments 5849 Ascot Drive Oakland, CA USA 94611-2702 (510) 531-6047 (510) 336-0243 fax (510) 325-1877 cell ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:46:02 -0600 From: E P LUKAS To: 8guion@jmls.edu, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces Message-ID: <3C852E8A.40EC2E55@bigfoot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Way to go, David! GREAT suggestion! I wish I had sent THAT response. These young bucks had BETTER start using their own brains and trusting their own analysis. Unfortunately, in MY experience, the gray men in our universities seldom encourage and accept original thinking. I guess that's why I chose a career in private, for profit, industry. "Guion, David" wrote: > You have the music and, I assume, two and a half years of theory. Would it > be acceptable to use what you have found on Skolnik and then provide your > own analysis? You can probably find plenty of notes on other pieces > (including a wealth of music for other instruments or voice) to use as a > model for the kinds of things you can look for and write about. That should > count for research as much as finding material in reference works would. And > for pieces by little-known composers that are not frequently performed, it > may actually be faster and easier. The first step is to ask your teacher if > that is within the rules of your school. If so, run your analysis past both > your trombone teacher and your theory teacher. > > ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > David Guion, Cataloging Librarian > The John Marshall Law School > 315 S. Plymouth Ct. > Chicago, IL 60604 > Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 > 8guion@jmls.edu > > Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? > > Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. > > ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ -- Deja moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before. ERNIE PAUL LUKAS MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:17:01 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum. (E-mail)" Subject: ITF 2002 Message-ID: <454FC5BC266BDB4BBA26E5BBF2F73FEF28CE98@torxchng1.dwpv.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Other than the somewhat sketchy info on the ITA website, is there detailed information available yet on ITF 2002 in Dallas? Thanks. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:25:29 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ITF 2002 Message-ID: <20020305212529.1756.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just received a brochure with a Hickey's order...so they're available. Gabe --- Thomas Smee wrote: > Other than the somewhat sketchy info on the ITA website, > is there > detailed information available yet on ITF 2002 in Dallas? > Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:21:53 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ITF 2002 Message-ID: <3C8536F1.7369B70E@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas Smee wrote: > Other than the somewhat sketchy info on the ITA website, is there > detailed information available yet on ITF 2002 in Dallas? > Thanks. Tom, There's pretty good info in the ITA Journal most recent issue. Oh, and by the way, it's in Denton, not Dallas. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:51:42 -0800 From: Mike Mathews To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Sibelius & Machine Guns? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" bodie wrote: "So what does all of this mean when you are interpreting the music in Finlandia? What is the imagery then, if not machine guns?" I'm reminded of a (probably apocryphal) story about a concert in Paris in which N. Rimsky-Korsakov condicted some of his works. After the concert a fan was telling him how wonderful it had been and said, "And what was the clarinet saying in that very moving section?" R-K replied, "Madame, the clarinet was saying 'I am a clarinet.' " Does there have to be imagery? Mike Mathews Director of Instrumental Studies Missouri Western State College mathews@mwsc.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:52:37 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Fwd: Hall/Ferrell recital Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: "Hall, James M" Subject: Hall/Ferrell recital Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:06:14 -0600 X-RCPT-TO: Status: U Join KU Professors Mike Hall and Mark Ferrell for an evening of 20th-century music for trombone and piano, Saturday March 9, 2002, Swarthout Recital Hall, within Murphy Hall, on the campus of Kansas University. They will present the celebrated Ballade of Swiss composer, Paul Martin and Sonata for a Fool and His Trombone, a new work from Hollywood's Maria Newman. Englishman Alan Ridout, Frenchman Marc Lys and Italian Vittorio Monti will round out the evening, along with musings from American poet, Paul Laurence Dunbar. Faculty Recital Series 7:30 pm March 9, 2002 Swarthout Recital Hall free admission Mike Hall, Assistant Professor of Trombone Literature Reviews Editor, International Trombone Association Journal University of Kansas Department of Music and Dance 1530 Naismith Dr. Room 460 Murphy Hall Lawrence, KS 66045-3102 studio 785.864.4518 fax 785.864.5866 mhall@ku.edu http://www.people.ku.edu/~mhall/ -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:54:03 +0100 From: "Arthur Koolen" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: King Bass Bone Gone? Message-ID: <000001c1c4a1$080e53e0$0100a8c0@pii333> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1C4A9.69D44280" Hello List, I was looking on the United Musical site and searched for all available Bass BoneÕs. I only got 1 Benge and 3 ConnÕs. What about the King 7B? DonÕt they make it anymore? Greetings. Arthur Koolen ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:21:16 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Sibelius & Machine Guns? Message-ID: <9d.241b40ea.29b6bafc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9d.241b40ea.29b6bafc_boundary" << Does there have to be imagery? Mike Mathews >> Not at all. In some cases composers may have something in mind yet go to lengths to say, "I wasn't thinking of anything in particular when I wrote it." Then on the other hand, when asked to take notice of a magnificent mountain view, Mahler has been quoted as saying, "I don't need to look...I wrote that already." Imagery can be a useful tool in a musicians toolkit but there does not need to be ANY to make great music, nor does there need to be any for the listener to enjoy music more. Then there's that whole argument about "which imagery, which story, poem, legend, etc." is the "right" one? There isn't! An interesting thing has been going on here in Southern California classrooms and probably in other areas, namely the playing of music in class and having primary grade children draw or paint what the music inspires them to create. No "wrong" or "right" interpretation, just free reign with music as a springboard for a visual work. I was fascinated at a children's' concert recently to hear an artist/teacher explain how many of the great painters listened to music while they worked. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:40:34 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, I guess the question needs to be asked... Why is the player playing the part on a Tenor, anyway? For Beethoven I use a Tenor on the Bass part, but not for Sibelius. Inquiring minds want to know.... Tom ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:40:36 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: ITF 2002 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Thomas Smee Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 3:17 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: ITF 2002 Other than the somewhat sketchy info on the ITA website, is there detailed information available yet on ITF 2002 in Dallas? Thanks. ___________________________ I doubt it. It's not in Dallas, it's in Denton. Tom ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:01:47 -0500 From: Angie Brunk To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: more on enlarged music Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Listers, As many of you may recall, I use enlarged music. This semester I went up to 200%-yes that's big! Basically, I have half a page of music on one tabloid page in landscape orientation. I've found that gets the music into the best postion for my bi-focals. It does create some logistical problems with page turns etc. Since I now work in library preservation, I thought I would ask my colleagues, most of whom are also musicians, for advice. Our collections conservator, who is also a fiddle maker and player, thought a custom book binding would be the best solution. So far, it works very well. Page turns are much smoother, the binding adds stability to to tricky music, and I don't have to worry about pages blowing away. If you have a student using enlarged music, this might make it easier to handle. The binding used was a double fan adhesive binding with a stretch supra cloth. If you are connected with a university, the library preservation department should be able to do it. I also considered Japanese tissue hinges. (basically just what it sounds like, a flexible tissue joining two or more pieces of paper.) The average person *should* be able to do these to make difficult page turns easier, and if the right adhesive is ued, it is fully reversible. Angie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:23:55 -0600 From: "Joshua Brown" To: "Trombone L" Subject: Re: ITF 2002 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C48C.0E092370" Hi Thomas, WeÊwill be launching a site devoted to the upcoming ITF soon. In addition toÊthe information currently on the ITA site, we will also have information on theÊartists, competition finalists, venues, housing, transportation, and a festival schedule. We are waiting on the data to be finalized before we post anything. If you have any questions, please email me and I'll be happy to help. Take care, Joshua Brown http://www.ita-web.org/ http://www.itf2002.org/ >Other than the somewhat sketchy info on the ITA website, is there >detailed information available yet on ITF 2002 in Dallas? >Thanks. Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:15:12 -0800 From: emrose79@pacbell.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone For Sale Message-ID: <3C8597D0.52A6B5D9@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oh, No!!!! a defector from the Duo Gravis Owners Group! BITEensemble@aol.com wrote: > > FS: King Duo Gravis Bass Trombone > Dependent rotors F/D with E slide > great slide > lacquer is good > crease removed from bell > Original hard-shell case > Bach 1G mouthpiece included > > $1700.00 obo > I pay shipping/buyer pays insurance > > contact me privately for more information > > Thanks, > > Wes Hopper > biteensemble@aol.com > 617.331.6438 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:31:26 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 3/5/02 1:38 PM, Scott Robinson expounded thusly... > Greetings: > > I'm performing Walter Skolnik's Three Pieces on my junior recital in a > couple of weeks, and I'm trying to collect some program notes for all the > piece and have been stumped on this one. I've found some information about > the composer, but nothing about the work itself. > > I would appreciate any information that anyone could contribute. > > Thanks, > > Scott Scott- If what you want to know about the work concerns stuff like what's the form, what kind of scales, tone rows, etc. Walter used, then I refer you to David Guion's post. But, if you want to find out stuff like who he wrote it for, who premiered it, or some historical information about Walter, then you could ask the folks at Presser what you want to know. Better yet, you could ask Walter himself. I used to work at Sam Ash with him about 15-20 years ago. His quintet piece "Fantasia on G.A.B.E." was written for my quintet, the Grace Avenue Brass Ensemble, and Gabe also happens to be the name of one of his sons. Last I heard, Walter works at Patelson's, a sheet music store around the corner from Carnegie Hall. He loves to hear about his stuff getting performed, and if you send him a program and a recording, he'll be your friend for life. Really. Tell him Wally Barrett says "Hi!" Walter Barrett "Don't get old, you won't like it." -Arnold Jacobs Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:58:57 -0800 From: Brad Howland To: Bodie Pfost , Trombone Mailing List Subject: Re: Doublers? Message-ID: <004601c1c4cb$9f9a9dc0$a11a4118@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Yes I do! Mike Herriott is an excellent trombonist and lead trumpet player, living in Victoria, BC, Canada. You can find out more about him at his web site: www.the-trumpet-shall-sound.com Best Regards, Brad Howland ************************************************************ Trombone, Web Design, Income Tax, Brass Music "Specialization is for insects." ...Robert Heinlein E Mail: bhowland@shaw.ca Web Site: http://www.musicforbrass.com/ The Brass Tacks: http://www.musicforbrass.com/subTacks.html ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bodie Pfost" To: "Trombone Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: Doublers? > Hey List, > > Does anybody out there know of any good trombonists > who double as good lead trumpeters? If you do, please > send me their name and city. > > Thanks, > Bodie > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:01:24 -0800 From: Gordon Cherry To: gcherry@interchange.ubc.ca Subject: EIN FESTE BURG for 4 trombones-new publication!! Message-ID: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_O/mtnpIyan5oOCEyJRgyJw)" Dear trombone & brass colleagues: EIN FESTE BURG (A Mighty Fortress Is Our God),a FANTASIA An original composition by Wesley Hanson on the immortal chorale theme ofÊ LUTHER, is now being published for 4 trombones or trombone choir by Gordon Cherry, principal trombone of the Vancouver Symphony. Luther's grand, magnificent & spiritual chorale melody has been set for 3 tenor trombones and 1 bass trombone or trombone choir and is now for sale. This original work based on Luther's famous chorale features excellent trombone part writing, containing beautiful choral and contrapuntal scoring by Wesley Hanson. This work is in a comfortable range for all parts (first part goes to a high Bb). It would be a perfect fit for your upcoming Easter service. This work of 5 minutes in length can be performed with an ensemble of 4 trombones or a trombone choir of many players. Hanson's composition using Luther's chorale theme is beautiful as well as spiritual. It will make an excellent addition to your concert or Easter church service. You are bidding on brand new printed parts. All parts and score (unbound) are printed on 24 lb. brilliant white paper, however if you wish I can upload the arrangement to you via pdf file format using Adobe's free software, Acrobat Reader. If you don't have it already you can download load it free on Adobe's web site. Printing out this way saves you costs on shipping and valuable time. You can have it immediately!! Cost for parts and score is $12.50 US. We accept personal checks, money orders, PayPal and eBay Online Payments as a payment method for this item. Please check out my feedback ratings and take a look at my other auctions. Ask for a free complete list of my published works for brass. You won't be disappointed. Satisfaction is guaranteed!! Shipping cost by Canada Post is $2.00 air mail to North America, $3.00 internationally. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:17:20 -0000 From: "Steve Cordingley" To: "Trombone Forum Posting Address" Subject: RE: Olds V Conn Tuition Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for taking the trouble to give me your thoughts Bruce, Gary, R Carmichael and DJ. On balance, I've decided not to go in that direction at the moment, though I remain interested in finding a really good instrument to take me over the next five years or so and despite what I say about wanting to make a smooth rather than loud sound, the Olds does feel a bit sweet and gentle (though I appreciate that could be me more than it). The purchase wouldn't affect my decision on tuition too much, though I am much more circumspect about teachers than I was first time around. If you're interested, here's my experience of being taught (and if you're not, here's where to stop). I know that almost any teacher could teach me loads, but the first time around (I'm struggling to come to terms with that being 30 years ago!) I found myself not so much steered and guided as herded and corralled. The outcome was that no matter what I wanted to do, I became an orchestral player. The more I was taught to be one, the more I sounded like one so the more it was presumed that that was where my strengths and instincts lay - so the more I was taught to be one. And I was unutterably bored. I was under the strong influence of a professional orchestral player (my dad) and a professional player (my teacher) and they thought that learning to 'play properly' really meant doing the orchestral thing first and then learning to break the rules afterwards. My dad was convinced (and remains so) that I could have become a pro but by the time I was 17 or so, I found I was so far behind my contemporaries in the bands, jazz and jazz/rock outfits that I wanted to be a part of that I simply couldn't get started - they were already looking for players of the standard I'd reached in my other playing. I lost heart and then I stopped. I now see that doing that was a bit gutless of me but realising that my dad and most of his contemporaries on the professional scene were bored and less well paid than they should be played a part in that too. I've dipped in a couple of times since then but have returned with more purpose this time. I am looking for a teacher - really I am - but feel tremendously nervous of making the same mistakes again. For that reason, I've been working on all the basics (breathing, long notes, flexibilities, scales, arpeggios and learning favourite stuff by ear and struggling with a few studies) but do now need to get some time with a good teacher. Sabutin has been a help (American Trombone) as have things like Circuit Training for Trombone Players and so has the List. And a list of this quality in the UK would good! Thanks again for your help and guidance - it's much appreciated. Steve in England. -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce Guttman Sent: 05 March 2002 17:03 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Olds V Conn Message text written by INTERNET:steve@inside14.demon.co.uk >Can anyone tell me whether I might even notice a difference between an early 60's Connstellation and a 1973 Olds Custom P16< Steve: Whether you notice a difference is a function of how advanced a player you are. If you are a relatively new "reentrant" player, my opinion is you won't notice a difference. Your Olds is a fine Big Band era instrument. We had a member of the On-Line Trombone Journal Forum, Tom Mathis (sadly deceased) who used to play an Olds Super for studio work, but he was asked to switch to a Bach 8 because his sound was "old-fashioned". Understand that Tom was playing in the Los Angeles Studio area, and the people he played with were absolutely top-flight musicians. In this case, the sound of the Olds made a difference. If you are playing in the "West Eppinham Downs Big Band", it probably won't make a difference, IMO. Understand, that the Connstellation is also an excellent horn. Many people like them for jazz. A smaller bell will allow you to "cut" through on high lead lines. A larger bell will give you more sound, but it won't focus as well. The choice is yours. If I were in your shoes, I would play the Olds and put any money you would have spent on the Conn for lessons with a good teacher. Above all else, enjoy music!!! Bruce Guttman Londonderry, NH, USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:04:03 -0500 From: brad.miller@highmark.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue Message-ID: <200203061357.g26Dvj413926@igate.highmark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm pretty certain he doesn't own a bass trombone. He is a very good trombone player - most likely he would be playing 1st or 2nd, except those slots were filled already a couple of years ago when he joined. The West Shore Symphony is a volunteer orchestra. I play lead and I don't own an alto. One of these days maybe... ----- Forwarded by Brad Miller/ISG/CORP/Highmark on 03/06/02 08:57 AM ----- "Tom Izzo" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue owner-trombone-l@po.mi ssouri.edu 03/05/02 07:40 PM Please respond to jeanvaljean OK, I guess the question needs to be asked... Why is the player playing the part on a Tenor, anyway? For Beethoven I use a Tenor on the Bass part, but not for Sibelius. Inquiring minds want to know.... Tom ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:10:17 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Olds V Conn Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020306085953.00b93af0@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:02 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Bruce Guttman wrote: Message text written by INTERNET:steve@inside14.demon.co.uk >Can anyone tell me whether I might even notice a difference between an early 60's Connstellation and a 1973 Olds Custom P16< Whether you notice a difference is a function of how advanced a player you are. If you are a relatively new "reentrant" player, my opinion is you won't notice a difference. Your Olds is a fine Big Band era instrument. That is an interesting comment. A more advanced player may be able to spot some subtle differences between horns that escape a lesser player. On the other hand, the more advanced a player becomes, the less the horn matters. The more advanced players can get a wider variety of colors out of every instrument and make an "inappropriate" horn behave. It was a real shock to see Ron Wilkins a couple of years ago playing great, highly articulate jazz on a 42B with some really large mouthpiece (4G or something). It didn't matter what horn you put on his face, it was going to work and sound just great. He is an Edwards artist representative now, so I presume he is playing on "a proper jazz horn" these days. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:20:10 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: SyBrandon@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: musicians barter project Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 5:06 PM -0500 3/4/02, SyBrandon@aol.com wrote: Richard, I feel that "live" composers can be that link as well as the performer. (snip) We just hosted BOBBY SHEW here for a jazz concert, and we had a similar discussion at lunch yesterday. I thought I would share a story he told about his having taught at a large university in Canada some time ago. A course in improvisation was offered, and he got a rather large sampling of students to enroll. Not jazz improvisation, mind you -- improvisation. There were violinists, pianists, etc. in the class. Bobby made a list of emotions... sadness, happiness, anger, etc. He made a 3x5 card with one expression of emotion on each card, placed them in a hat and had each student to take a card. They were given a mode to work with which he placed on the chalkboard at the front of the class. Given that mode and that expression, he proceeded to ask each student to play for him without telling anyone what emotion they were trying to portray. Fun exercise. But it didn't stop there. As the semester progressed, Bobby played on these emotions by having the students play, and continue to play as he cued others in. After a short while, he was able to discern which students were doing which emotion, and he would build on those emotions cuing players in and out for rather long periods at a time. Before long, other students began to congregate at the door, listening to all this fun in Bobby's classroom. After this had been going on for several weeks, the students (and Bobby) were getting quite good at playing together and were having fun with their improvisations. One day, a couple of serious students came up to him after class. They had been listening just outside the door. They came in and told Mr. Shew that they really liked that work his class had been playing. He thanked them kindly and was about to go about his business when one of the student's said, "yeah, I think we played that piece when I was in high school." Had to be a freshman, right? --Wayne Dyess -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:12:29 -0000 From: "Keith Marr" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone For Sale Message-ID: <007801c1c523$888920e0$154986d9@tiny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you think we can get him into therapy before he lets go of it? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:15 AM Subject: Re: Bass Trombone For Sale > Oh, No!!!! a defector from the Duo Gravis Owners Group! > > BITEensemble@aol.com wrote: > > > > FS: King Duo Gravis Bass Trombone > > Dependent rotors F/D with E slide > > great slide > > lacquer is good > > crease removed from bell > > Original hard-shell case > > Bach 1G mouthpiece included > > > > $1700.00 obo > > I pay shipping/buyer pays insurance > > > > contact me privately for more information > > > > Thanks, > > > > Wes Hopper > > biteensemble@aol.com > > 617.331.6438 > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:05:01 -0500 From: Bruce Guttman To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Olds V Conn Tuition Message-ID: <200203061205_MC3-F4B6-B754@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message text written by INTERNET:steve@inside14.demon.co.uk >I became an orchestral player. The more I was taught to be one, the more I sounded like one so the more it was presumed that that was where my strengths and instincts lay - so the more I was taught to be one. And I was unutterably bored. I was under the strong influence of a professional orchestral player (my dad) and a professional player (my teacher) and they thought that learning to 'play properly' really meant doing the orchestral thing first and then learning to break the rules afterwards.< If it would make you feel any better, Tommy Dorsey used to study with Jaroslav Cimera. We have a fine Dixie player here named Cas Brosky who studied with Jacob Reichman (Boston Symphony). The point is, the "basics" (scales, flexibilities, range, tone, etc.) are the same whether you are playing for the London Symphony or the Buddy Rich band. Once you have those down, you can go on to learn the facets of jazz and you don't even need to work with a trombonist. Check into the Online Trombone Journal forum for the names of a lot of UK players; maybe one of them can recommend a good teacher. Bruce Guttman Londonderry, NH, USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:17:16 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'craig@acticalc.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Olds V Conn Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FD12A@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1C532.C3F1E090" Craig and List: I'm not as sure as I once was, about what exact horn is the proper jazz horn, and Ron has a lot to do with it. Ron doesn't play the 42B at this time. Ron now plays an alto, small bore tenor, large bore tenor and bass bone, (I think) all Edwards horns (his tenor mp is a Greg Black 4g-5g), and he can make all of them sing! Great dexterity, great sound. He does mostly small ensemble jazz work so blend, as in a jazz section is not so big a deal in this venue. But he also does some sectional work (non-jazz) as well with the same horns. Ron can get around on the big bore horns as though he is playing a small bore. You can argue about presence, sound that cuts through the crowd, blend etc., But Ron can do all of that with these horns. I agree Craig, the better the player, the better they play all of the horns. Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Craig Parmerlee [mailto:craig@acticalc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:10 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Olds V Conn At 11:02 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Bruce Guttman wrote: >Message text written by INTERNET:steve@inside14.demon.co.uk > >Can anyone tell me whether I might even notice a difference between an >early 60's Connstellation and a 1973 Olds Custom P16< > >Whether you notice a difference is a function of how advanced a player you >are. If you are a relatively new "reentrant" player, my opinion is you >won't notice a difference. Your Olds is a fine Big Band era instrument. That is an interesting comment. A more advanced player may be able to spot some subtle differences between horns that escape a lesser player. On the other hand, the more advanced a player becomes, the less the horn matters. The more advanced players can get a wider variety of colors out of every instrument and make an "inappropriate" horn behave. It was a real shock to see Ron Wilkins a couple of years ago playing great, highly articulate jazz on a 42B with some really large mouthpiece (4G or something). It didn't matter what horn you put on his face, it was going to work and sound just great. He is an Edwards artist representative now, so I presume he is playing on "a proper jazz horn" these days. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:28:47 +0100 From: Howard Weiner To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: humor Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306182627.009eb650@mail.sampo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Not trombone related, but it could have been... From a music software discussion list, billed as "true story": A school music teacher who had been operatically trained was talking to her class about the importance of breath control. To illustrate her point she took a deep breath and let out a loud, long note. There was no wavering of the tone, no variation of the pitch, no diminishing of the loudness of the note, and she held it for a really, really, REALLY long time. Finally, she finished the note, there was a stunned silence from the class until one voice from the back of the class said "Had this been an actual emergency........" Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2320--