TROMBONE-L Digest 2319 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Sharp trombone by Gabriel Langfur 2) Another Christian Lindberg Masterclass by "Elizabeth Lewis" 3) RE: Sharp trombone by "Kerry Family" 4) Shires bell, Greg Black Mthpc for sale by "John Olsson" 5) Re: Sharp trombone by Craig Parmerlee 6) musicians barter project by SyBrandon@aol.com 7) Re: musicians barter project by "Richard B. Human, Jr." 8) Composer/performer/audience by "Jeff Albert" 9) Re: musicians barter project by SyBrandon@aol.com 10) Conn 8H Mouthpiece by "Hugh Lee" 11) Doublers? by Bodie Pfost 12) Canada....email by "Elisabeth Frederick" 13) RE: Trombonist Josh Roseman featured on NPR by "Jon Moeller" 14) Re: musicians barter project by "Steve Beck" 15) Bass Trombone For Sale by BITEensemble@aol.com 16) A flat tuning by Bruce Faske 17) RE: A flat tuning by "Tom Izzo" 18) Re: A flat tuning by alex iles 19) Re: A flat tuning by "Adrian Drover" 20) Olds V Conn by "Steve Cordingley" 21) Re: Sharp trombone by sgreat@tpg.com.au (Simon Greatwood) 22) RE: A flat tuning by "Jon Moeller" 23) Shires bell and Greg Black mouthpiece for sale by "John Olsson" 24) Re: Doublers? by "Dean McCarty" 25) Finlandia bass part by brad.miller@highmark.com 26) Re: Sharp trombone by Craig Parmerlee 27) Re: A flat tuning by "Adrian Drover" 28) Re: Finlandia bass part by "Paul Hill" 29) Re: A flat tuning by Walter Barrett 30) B-Trb in Finlandia by Mike Mathews 31) Re: Finlandia bass part by BassBonist@aol.com 32) Re: B-Trb in Finlandia by BassBonist@aol.com 33) Re: A flat tuning by David Buckley 34) Re: B-Trb in Finlandia by "Paul Hill" 35) record collection by Eugene Grissom 36) Finlandia bass part - double tongue by Craig Parmerlee 37) Boston recital by Gabriel Langfur 38) Re: A flat tuning by "Art Triggs" 39) Re: Doublers? by Gabriel Langfur 40) RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue by "Thomas Smee" 41) RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue by Gabriel Langfur 42) Re: A flat tuning by "Dave Wank" 43) Olds V Conn by Bruce Guttman 44) Re: Finlandia bass part by AlexS15017@aol.com 45) Re:Doublers by "Denny Seifried" 46) Re:Doublers by "Dale J. Cruse" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:13:47 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sharp trombone Message-ID: <20020304181347.50124.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >I play in a ska band, and i'm finding that after almost > 10 years of > >battery (denting and repairs) my trombone is extremely > sharp, to the > >point that i have to basically play by ear all the time. I'm not sure I understand what he means by "play by ear"...and my guess is that after 10 years of playing in a ska band the battery to the chops is probably more significant than battery to the horn. The problem is more likely with the player than the horn...not that ska is necessarily bad for you, but anything done to an extreme can change things about our playing...the type of playing required might be leading to unnecessary tension, and therefore a higher pitch center. Probably needs a few lessons with a good teacher to reinforce fundamentals. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:41:55 -0600 From: "Elizabeth Lewis" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Another Christian Lindberg Masterclass Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This Saturday (3/9/02) at 2:00PM at Chicago Symphony Orchestra's Symphony Center. To my knowledge it's free and open to the public. For directions, see www.cso.org, or call them for more information. Beth Lewis 2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos. http://my.lycos.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:08:19 -0000 From: "Kerry Family" To: "Chris McClure" , Subject: RE: Sharp trombone Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm wondering if it was a trombone used in a brass band tuned to 'high pitch' at some time. This hasn't been common (in UK at least) for 25 - 30 years. Stephen Kerry -----Original Message----- From: Chris McClure [mailto:mcclurefamily@ndak.net] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 03:30 To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Sharp trombone posting this by request of a fellow member of another trombone list. Repair techs especially invited to reply either to me off list or to William at his email addy. Thanks and God bless, Chris Ann From: WILLIAM ROBERT BRUCE DAMPNEY Subject: Sharp trombone Hi all, I play in a ska band, and i'm finding that after almost 10 years of battery (denting and repairs) my trombone is extremely sharp, to the point that i have to basically play by ear all the time. I was wondering if there is any technique i can use to flatten the tuning somewhat? There aren't any dents or anything that would majorly affect it, but some advice would be helpful! ------------------------------ Çwilliam.dampney@studentmail.newcastle.edu.auÈ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:43:05 -0500 From: "John Olsson" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Shires bell, Greg Black Mthpc for sale Message-ID: <007701c1c3b4$cf7cb270$c2cd3218@olsson1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Listers! I have a Shires Bass Bell for sale 2YHW Unsoldered bell rim ,heavy weight -Conn style bell $760 excellent condition-less than 6months old (I will pay shipping-you pay insurance) Greg Black Mouthpiece 4G-5G gold plated $120 -I'll pay the shipping John Olsson jolsson@adelphia.net Instructor of Trombone/Low Brass Kent State University-Stark Campus Malone College Mt. Union College West Liberty State College ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bass Trombone Canton Symphony Orchestra Wheeling Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:16:42 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Sharp trombone Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020304151258.02886ef0@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Actually, I think Chris is onto something. Whenever there is a dent, if this dent happens to land at a pressure node for a given note, that note will be sharp. In theory at least, it is possible to get enough dents in the right places that enough notes start sounding sharp to make the whole horn feel sharp. Also if you have been playing ska loud and frequently, you may have developed a very rigid embouchure that tends to blw the pitch sharp. And of course, the smaller the mouthpiece cup, the sharper the pitch. If you want an instant adjustment to a flatter pitch, go to a larger cup. But of course, then you may be impossible to hear. :) Cheers, Craig At 04:59 PM 3/4/2002 +0000, Daniel Pliskin wrote: Chris, I play in a ska band, and i'm finding that after almost 10 years of battery (denting and repairs) my trombone is extremely sharp, to the point that i have to basically play by ear all the time. I was wondering if there is any technique i can use to flatten the tuning somewhat? There aren't any dents or anything that would majorly affect it, but some advice would be helpful! The only way I know of, to make a trombone sharp is to shorten its length. It's possible that some repairperson, somewhere along the way, shortened some tubing, rather than replace it. But I kind of doubt it. Similarly, the only way you're going to get a trombone to play more flat, than it will with the tuning slide all the way out, is to add more tubing, to increase its length. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:44:41 EST From: SyBrandon@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@po.missouri.edu Subject: musicians barter project Message-ID: <4c.780f97e.29b536b9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am an award-winning composer who has written over150 compositions in all genres and at various difficulty levels from elementary to professional. Since I have recently retired from university music teaching, I now have more time to compose and to work on preserving my music in recorded format. Therefore, I am seeking, performers, conductors, and music teachers interested in bartering their talents in exchange for a composition written especially for them. Performers, conductors, and music teachers can earn credit towards a new piece written especially for them by submitting recordings of my music, performing a piece of mine that has not yet been performed, writing a review of my music, and submitting programs of performances of my music. For more information, please visit my web site at http://cooppress.hostrack.net and click on "opportunities for performers". I look forward to making new musical friends and working with them on this project. Sy Brandon Professor Emeritus Millersville University of Pennsylvania ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:08:38 -0600 From: "Richard B. Human, Jr." To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: musicians barter project Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Interesting. Take a second and go to Mr. Brandon's web page and view the graphic at the top. http://cooppress.hostrack.net/ I've always thought of the performer being the bridge between the composer and audience, not the composer being the bridge between between the performer and audience. Not that there is anything right or wrong about either way - that graphics ust brings a new twist on an old assumption. Thoughts? Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:27:10 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: Composer/performer/audience Message-ID: <001f01c1c3c3$57f33440$42249d42@jeff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess it is true that the performers and audience members would just be sitting around shooting the bull with out the composers. But really, each group depends on the other, and the whole thing would fall apart without any one of the legs. An interesting symbiosis. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Richard B. Human, Jr. Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:09 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: musicians barter project Interesting. Take a second and go to Mr. Brandon's web page and view the graphic at the top. http://cooppress.hostrack.net/ I've always thought of the performer being the bridge between the composer and audience, not the composer being the bridge between between the performer and audience. Not that there is anything right or wrong about either way - that graphics ust brings a new twist on an old assumption. Thoughts? Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:06:21 EST From: SyBrandon@aol.com To: richard@trombone.org, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: musicians barter project Message-ID: <69.23122f2f.29b549dd@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, I feel that "live" composers can be that link as well as the performer. The composer is in the middle on my logo because too often audiences don't understand contemporary music even if it is performed well. Often performers bow to audiences wishes and don't even program contemporary music, therefore creating even a larger gulf between contemporary composers and audiences. I feel that if a composer is present at performances and can talk to the audience about the music, then the audience may understand it and appreciate it more. It is however, not so important as to who is in the middle as that we all work to bridge the gap. Sy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:53:53 -0600 From: "Hugh Lee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Conn 8H Mouthpiece Message-ID: <3C83A68B.23962.1358EE71@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I missed Richard Barrett's earlier post about changing his mouthpiece. I play an 88H and had the same experience with a 4G. I switched to a Denis Wick 5AL for a while and liked the sound. I found the sharp rim to be a little uncomfortable, however, and moved then to a Giardinelli Symphony B mouthpiece. I have stayed with that mouthpiece for most classical and brass quintet playing ever since. I use an entirely different setup for other kinds of playing. I think that Giardinelli has switched its numbering system but I'm sure that they could tell you today's equivalent. My lower range is more limited - pedal G is my lowest musically playable note - but it has really focused my sound and resulted in better projection. Hugh Lee Tuscaloosa, Alabama ______________________________________________________ Hugh M. Lee Managing Attorney, Alabama Lawyers Research Service Director, Student Legal Clinic University of Alabama School of Law Post Office Box 870383 Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35487-0383 (205) 348-0300 (phone) (205) 348-1112 (fax) hlee@law.ua.edu Nothing in this e-mail message should be construed as legal advice. This email is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Any review or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient or any retransmission without the consent of the sender is prohibited. The views or opinions expressed by the sender of this email are not necessarily those of the institution. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:00:44 -0800 From: Bodie Pfost To: Trombone Mailing List Subject: Doublers? Message-ID: <3C840AAC.E940E1C2@humboldt1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey List, Does anybody out there know of any good trombonists who double as good lead trumpeters? If you do, please send me their name and city. Thanks, Bodie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:58:48 -0800 From: "Elisabeth Frederick" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Canada....email Message-ID: <001901c1c3e9$4afa52c0$0973fb3f@d9h2z9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List... I recieved an email from someone who said they were from Canada and had come to the US to do (I believe) graduate work. If that person could resend the email, I accidentally deleted it, that would be wonderful. Elisabeth ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:53:22 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: "'Trombone List'" Subject: RE: Trombonist Josh Roseman featured on NPR Message-ID: <000001c1c3f0$ea888f30$9401a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Im probably going to order it from barnes and noble, they seem to be able to order any cds they don't have -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Cordingley Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:49 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Trombonist Josh Roseman featured on NPR To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Trombonist Josh Roseman featured on NPR That guy sounds great, I'm gonna go buy his cd... Hi Mole, I listened to the clip and I too liked it - enough to TRY to buy the CD. Looks like it's not so easy this side of the Atlantic. I also tried Amazon.com but they had it on restricted/limited availability. So if you're going to get it, can you tell me where you get it from so that I can try them? Thanks, Steve in England ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:07:23 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: musicians barter project Message-ID: <00b701c1c3f2$e316aaa0$990b0923@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .From: "Richard B. Human, Jr." <.> I've always thought of the performer being the bridge between the composer and audience, not the composer being the bridge between between the performer and audience Richard, you're reading too much into this. The performer, composer, and audience are all on the bridge. If you want to really go reaching for an analogy, the audience and performers are on the anchor spans and the composer, as usual, has us in suspension. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:13:00 EST From: BITEensemble@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Bass Trombone For Sale Message-ID: <62.1bda1912.29b59fcc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FS: King Duo Gravis Bass Trombone Dependent rotors F/D with E slide great slide lacquer is good crease removed from bell Original hard-shell case Bach 1G mouthpiece included $1700.00 obo I pay shipping/buyer pays insurance contact me privately for more information Thanks, Wes Hopper biteensemble@aol.com 617.331.6438 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:03:19 -0600 From: Bruce Faske To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: A flat tuning Message-ID: <001601c1c40b$736c8260$2503fea9@Slaveone> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_lUwNh+yVUsCGXaFdMqmrGA)" Dear list, A buddy of mine recently bought an oldÊKing 3B silversonic that is in pristine shape, with one exception. His tuning slide and receiver tubingÊisÊconsiderably shorter than a normal trombone, so much that he's almost aÊposition off on most notes. He bought the horn from an elderly woman who's husband (now long dead) played it in dance band and big band settings. We got in a bit of a dispute over the reasons for the tuning issue, and I told him that I thought the previous owner had modified the horn (it looks like he used a pipe cutter) so that he could tune to the A flat above the bass clef staff. (the note that you should NEVER play in first) I have heard of several players doing this so that they could use slide vibrato in first position on the now loweredÊB flats, F's and D's. My friend doesn't believe me, so I'm asking the list if I'm correct in my assumption or not. Thanks for your answers! Bruce ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:13:14 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: A flat tuning Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0064_01C1C3DA.8B1DFE10" Bruce, -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce Faske Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 12:03 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: A flat tuning Dear list, A buddy of mine recently bought an oldÊKing 3B silversonic that is in pristine shape, with one exception. His tuning slide and receiver tubingÊisÊconsiderably shorter than a normal trombone, so much that he's almost aÊposition off on most notes. He bought the horn from an elderly woman who's husband (now long dead) played it in dance band and big band settings. We got in a bit of a dispute over the reasons for the tuning issue, and I told him that I thought the previous owner had modified the horn (it looks like he used a pipe cutter) so that he could tune to the A flat above the bass clef staff. (the note that you should NEVER play in first) I have heard of several players doing this so that they could use slide vibrato in first position on the now loweredÊB flats, F's and D's. My friend doesn't believe me, so I'm asking the list if I'm correct in my assumption or not. Thanks for your answers! Not all Trombones are in Bb. There are Tenors in C & A, tho I've never heard of a Tenor in B natural. It could have been shortened (probably so for a King), but it could have been made during the Low & High pitch "times" too. More often Saxophes were made in Low Pitch & High Pitch models, but there have been a few Trombones this way too. Hard to tell exactly without seeing the instrument. Tom Bruce ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:49:40 -0800 From: alex iles To: brucefaske@sbcglobal.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A flat tuning Message-ID: <3C846A77.71FD5345@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------348B5A89886F7335C1218EE8" Hi Bruce, Yes, it is quite common for some players to cut their horns and play their positions extended for a few reasons... 1. As you point out, for slide vibrato on first position notes. 2. You will have room to pull in for the flatter partials in first position. [maybe not Ab. That is usually a little too low, even for most cut horns--although I have seen several fine jazz players get away splendidly with playing a few passing Ab's in first once in a while. 3. Tuning for an extended 1st position can reduce a player's fear of jamming the handslide into the receiver on fast passages. If you REALLY play first position ALL THE WAY in all the time, you can give yourself quite a wollop in the face on a descending sixteenth note Bb scale coming back in for that F and low Bb. 4. Social reasons . You might say, "Why cut the tuning slide to play extended positions? Why don't you just push the tuning slide in all the way?". Good point. The problem is, if your tuning slide LOOKS like it is pushed in all the way, you might get some funny looks from section mates. If you cut the slide, the slide looks more like it is pulled out a little, so I guess some people figure they can avoid a potentially embarrasing moment. If you cut too much, the horn can play drastically different. Some horns are cut way too much. I have found, for smaller bore horns, it is best to start with no more than 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. Much more than that, the horn loses something [response and focus, for sure]--maybe something to do with the horn's mass...You can also run the risk of losing 7th position altogether! Good luck with your argument. IMO, you both win this one [he learns something new, and you were right ;-)] Alex Bruce Faske wrote: Dear list,ÊA buddy of mine recently bought an old King 3B silversonic that is in pristine shape, with one exception. His tuning slide and receiver tubing is considerably shorter than a normal trombone, so much that he's almost a position off on most notes. He bought the horn from an elderly woman who's husband (now long dead) played it in dance band and big band settings.ÊWe got in a bit of a dispute over the reasons for the tuning issue, and I told him that I thought the previous owner had modified the horn (it looks like he used a pipe cutter) so that he could tune to the A flat above the bass clef staff. (the note that you should NEVER play in first) I have heard of several players doing this so that they could use slide vibrato in first position on the now lowered B flats, F's and D's. My friend doesn't believe me, so I'm asking the list if I'm correct in my assumption or not. Thanks for your answers!ÊBruce ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:32:19 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A flat tuning Message-ID: <006701c1c424$9292de50$0c7a68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tom Izzo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More often Saxophes were made in Low Pitch & High Pitch models, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do they still make these? In one of the bands I play with, the sax section tune to 5 different pitches. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:13:25 -0000 From: "Steve Cordingley" To: "Trombone Forum Posting Address" Subject: Olds V Conn Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi list. I'm a born again tenor player so often get lost in this modern world of this maker v that maker, bells, slides and bore sizes and could do with some advice if you have a moment. Can anyone tell me whether I might even notice a difference between an early 60's Connstellation and a 1973 Olds Custom P16. The Olds is mine and the Conn is something I'm thinking of buying to replace the Olds. I guess I want to go up a bit - but not too much - in size from the Olds. I don't know the bore size on my Olds, but the bell is seven-and-a-half-inches and the bore is pretty small. The constellation is apparently eight inch bell with .500 bore. I don't want anything too big because my interest is in jazz and small ensemble and if I enjoy anything it's making a smooth soft sound rather than ripping someone's toupee off from thirty paces. The only possible issue is that in a year or so, I might go in search of an R&B band in need of a boost in the horn section, at which time these little lovelies might suddenly be too small. My preference is to settle on an instrument and then concentrate on my playing so I don't see myself going after three different horns for the different things I do. Any thoughts you have will be appreciated, and thanks in advance. Steve in England ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:50:09 +1100 From: sgreat@tpg.com.au (Simon Greatwood) To: Subject: Re: Sharp trombone Message-ID: <3c84af2c.261829@mail.tpg.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:52 -0600, you wrote: >posting this by request of a fellow member of another trombone list. Repair >techs especially invited to reply either to me off list or to William at his >email addy. > >Thanks and God bless, Chris Ann > >From: WILLIAM ROBERT BRUCE DAMPNEY > >Subject: Sharp trombone > >Hi all, >I play in a ska band, and i'm finding that after almost 10 years of >battery (denting and repairs) my trombone is extremely sharp, to the >point that i have to basically play by ear all the time. I was wondering >if there is any technique i can use to flatten the tuning somewhat? >There aren't any dents or anything that would majorly affect it, but >some advice would be helpful! > >------------------------------ >Çwilliam.dampney@studentmail.newcastle.edu.auÈ > > William, Chris and List, I'm no expert in techy repair stiff, but do a fair bit of playing in the big band/latin/rock/runk areas. i've recently switched to a Yeo replica on Bass and have found that it lowers the pitch of my horn slightly - probably due to soft chops and lack of neccessary air... if i go straight from that combo to a small bore with appropriate mpc, i find that i have to pull a long way out to get in tune. it's quite possible and I'd say probable that over the years of playing in REALLY LOUD gigs you've probably used more and more air and that has tightened your embouchure gradually so that you don't notice it. I can't give a definative cure - i'd suggest not changing the instrument - it'll need the same work done again in another 10 years possibly! try long, low tones ala Phil Teele, I think - see archive for his book and details of method, or someone could email you privately - i've got the posts somewhere... If Sam is around, he will no doubt have comments on this idea, as it's his field - and he's a whole lot better at it than me right now... Anyway, Just a thought. Simon Greatwood 4th Year BMus/BTeach University of Melbourne (www.music.unimelb.edu.au) Australia ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 06:19:08 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: "Trombone List" Subject: RE: A flat tuning Message-ID: <000601c1c43f$f391b1c0$9401a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They are probably not just tuning their fundamental, just like we don't tune just our F. If they used both high and low pitched saxes, your sax section would be like 20-30 cents away from each other. -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Adrian Drover Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 2:32 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: A flat tuning From: Tom Izzo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More often Saxophes were made in Low Pitch & High Pitch models, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do they still make these? In one of the bands I play with, the sax section tune to 5 different pitches. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:12:42 -0500 From: "John Olsson" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Shires bell and Greg Black mouthpiece for sale Message-ID: <003101c1c447$6fcccf20$c2cd3218@olsson1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Listers-sending this again as I never saw it hit the list yesterday! I have a Shires Bass Bell for sale 2YHW Unsoldered bell rim ,heavy weight -Conn style bell $760 excellent condition-less than 6months old (I will pay shipping-you pay insurance) Greg Black Mouthpiece 4G-5G gold plated $120 -I'll pay the shipping John Olsson jolsson@adelphia.net Instructor of Trombone/Low Brass Kent State University-Stark Campus Malone College Mt. Union College West Liberty State College ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bass Trombone Canton Symphony Orchestra Wheeling Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:22:02 -0600 From: "Dean McCarty" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" , Subject: Re: Doublers? Message-ID: <003e01c1c448$bdb17e60$b30960cc@compaqcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only one that comes to my mind is Tom Malone (North Texas Grad.) out of New York (David Letterman band). Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area ----- Original Message ----- From: Bodie Pfost To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 6:00 PM Subject: Doublers? > Hey List, > > Does anybody out there know of any good trombonists > who double as good lead trumpeters? If you do, please > send me their name and city. > > Thanks, > Bodie > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:20:41 -0500 From: brad.miller@highmark.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Finlandia bass part Message-ID: <200203051314.g25DEL418645@igate.highmark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The community orchestra I play with is playing Sibelius' Finlandia for an upcoming concert and we read through it last night. Our bass trombonist pointed out to me that in one place the part has 16th notes on low Eb. His point was that, for him, they are impossible to play at that speed. Basically they'd be too muddy. He is basically a tenor player playing the bass part on a .547 horn. My questions: 1. Should he play the part up an octave or play where it's written, but water it down some? I think taking the part up an octave would double the second part. I'm not sure if the tuba is playing there. I know the chord is an Eb major. 2. Are the professional players able to play this sort of thing? Double-tounged or single? 3. Can anyone guess at Sibelius' intentions? Or is this sort of thing (quick notes below the staff) more common in the symphonic repertoire than I realize? Thanks, Brad Miller ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:16:52 -0400 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Sharp trombone Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020305101006.00b29898@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:50 PM 03/05/2002 +1100, Simon Greatwood wrote: I'm no expert in techy repair stiff, but do a fair bit of playing in the big band/latin/rock/runk areas. i've recently switched to a Yeo replica on Bass and have found that it lowers the pitch of my horn slightly - probably due to soft chops and lack of neccessary air... No need for a guilt complex. The flatness happens as a result of the cup getting bigger. It happens to all brass instruments. There is no problem with the chops. All sorts of players find they have to cut their instruments. Somewhere along the line this began a myth that the more advanced the embouchure becomes, the flatter the pitch becomes. What is really happening is that players tend to move to larger mouthpieces as their chops get stronger. The mouthpiece, not the chops, drops the pitch. Today's mouthpieces are so much larger than 70 years ago that many of those older instruments are unbearably flat when used with today's mouthpieces. The change has been most dramatic on bass trombone it seems. My 2 cents, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:38:46 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A flat tuning Message-ID: <00af01c1c44e$32147820$0c7a68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jon Moeller" > They are probably not just tuning their fundamental, just like we don't > tune just our F. If they used both high and low pitched saxes, your sax > section would be like 20-30 cents away from each other. Our saxes are more like 20-30 dollars away from each other. Guess I should have used a smiley. Which one do I use for sarcasm? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:14:26 -0800 From: "Paul Hill" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Finlandia bass part Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1C426.25C2A880" Hi Brad, I have played it several times and, yes, it is expected that a Bass Trombonist will play it as written. I play such passages single-tongued...double tonguing such passages does not provide the required/desired articulation. Have your friend take a look at the Tuba and Contrabass parts.ÊÊ*THEY* will sound like mud unless the Bass Tbn gives the ENTIRE MESS some articulation...that is Sibelius' point! This is typical of material written in octaves for Tuba and Bass Tbn: the Tuba provides the foundation (mass) and the Bass Tbn provides the punch (articulation). This is another example of the "marriage" btwn Bass Tbn and Tuba and the link that the Bass Tbn provides btwn the Tbn's and Tuba/Contra's/Celli (akin to the relationship btwn Bass Tbn and Bari in a Big Band). If your Bass Tbn'ist cannot articulate these 16th notes cleanly, ask him to play them as 8th notes but on the low Eb as written (don't double the 2nd part!). If he cannot get these as 16th notes by performance time, ask the conductor what he/she prefers.ÊÊSomething to "work on"...eh! Break out those tonguing drills! I might be going out on a limb here but this part may be "easier" on a .562 horn (less resistance)...a Bb/F would do nicely! (obviously, I have never attempted this part onÊTenor but I can't imagine getting those notes out cleanly and with "authority" on a Tenor mpc!). IÊdon't want to start any equipment wars over this because a Tenor player should certainly be able to handle that part on a .547 instrument...in my view, it is not "optimal" (just an opinion, folks!). Best Regards, Paul Paul Hill Bass Tbn Newport, RI ----- Original Message ----- From: brad.miller@highmark.com Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:23 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Finlandia bass part The community orchestra I play with is playing Sibelius' Finlandia for an upcoming concert and we read through it last night. Our bass trombonist pointed out to me that in one place the part has 16th notes on low Eb. His point was that, for him, they are impossible to play at that speed. Basically they'd be too muddy. He is basically a tenor player playing the bass part on a .547 horn. My questions: 1. Should he play the part up an octave or play where it's written, but water it down some? I think taking the part up an octave would double the second part. I'm not sure if the tuba is playing there. I know the chord is an Eb major. 2. Are the professional players able to play this sort of thing? Double-tounged or single? 3. Can anyone guess at Sibelius' intentions? Or is this sort of thing (quick notes below the staff) more common in the symphonic repertoire than I realize? Thanks, Brad Miller ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:26:32 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A flat tuning Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/5/02 3:32 AM, Adrian Drover expounded thusly... > > From: Tom Izzo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > More often Saxophes were made in Low Pitch & High Pitch models, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Do they still make these? In one of the bands I play with, the sax section > tune to 5 different pitches. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk > Gee, Adrian, you're so lucky to have such good saxophonists! Most of the ones I get to play with tune up to about 8 pitches each! -- Walter Barrett "ThereÕs more bad music in jazz than any other form. Maybe thatÕs because the audience doesnÕt really know whatÕs happening." -Pat Metheny Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 06:44:18 -0800 From: Mike Mathews To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: B-Trb in Finlandia Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have to respectfully disagree with Paul Hill when he says, "Have your friend take a look at the Tuba and Contrabass parts. *THEY* will sound like mud unless the Bass Tbn gives the ENTIRE MESS some articulation...that is Sibelius' point! This is typical of material written in octaves for Tuba and Bass Tbn: the Tuba provides the foundation (mass) and the Bass Tbn provides the punch (articulation)." I have had the pleasure of playing B-Trb next to some fine tubists (Steve Seward, Warren Deck, Ed Livingston, Gil Long -- even Roger Bobo, back in our high school days) and have found that they can articulate as well as anyone else in any register. I realize that there are some sluggish tubists out there but certainly that does not apple to all of them. Mike Mathews Mike Mathews Director of Instrumental Studies Missouri Western State College mathews@mwsc.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:53:46 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Finlandia bass part Message-ID: <155.9f89913.29b635fa@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_155.9f89913.29b635fa_boundary" brad.miller@highmark.com writes: << Our bass trombonist pointed out to me that in one place the part has 16th notes on low Eb. His point was that, for him, they are impossible to play at that speed. Basically they'd be too muddy.>> <<1. Should he play the part up an octave or play where it's written,>> Where it's written, please. << 2. Are the professional players able to play this sort of thing? Double-tounged or single?>> Yes. Single tongued, loud and with bite. << 3. Can anyone guess at Sibelius' intentions? >> The sixteenth note figures you are referring to each time they appear in Finlandia are musical representations of machine gun bursts, Russian machine guns specifically. The subtext is about the Russian oppression of the Finnish people and the Finlandia theme represents the triumph of the national spirit during a time of "Russification." Your friend needs to either learn to play it as written, or simplify it to "get through" or possibly use a larger instrument and practice like crazy, or what ever needs to be done to make it work. A long time ago (high school, college) thought it was an "impossible" lick but it is playable. You just have to practice it like anything else that seems out of reach. Matt Varho Bass Trombone South Coast Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:05:25 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: B-Trb in Finlandia Message-ID: <7e.23b9b916.29b638b5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7e.23b9b916.29b638b5_boundary" Paul Hill wrote: << the Tuba provides the foundation (mass) and the Bass Tbn provides the punch (articulation)." To which Mike Matthews chimed in: << I have had the pleasure of playing B-Trb next to some fine tubists (Steve Seward, Warren Deck, Ed Livingston, Gil Long -- even Roger Bobo, back in our high school days) and have found that they can articulate as well as anyone else in any register.>> I agree with you, Mike. I also think that in this case Paul probably should have said that the bass trombone provides the different color or timbre that Sibelius was after. The fact that the trumpet and trombones all have the figure and Sibelius wants it doubled in that register is to give it more "brute force." As I said in my previous post, they are musical representations of machine gun bursts. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:25:42 -0500 From: David Buckley To: mole2k4@attbi.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A flat tuning Message-ID: <3C84E375.3D4443F3@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't know you could tune saxs. Dave. > Do they still make these? In one of the bands I play with, the sax > section > tune to 5 different pitches. > > A. > > Adrian Drover > ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk > Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:24:45 -0800 From: "Paul Hill" To: Cc: Subject: Re: B-Trb in Finlandia Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1C42F.F8A42AE0" You have absolutely misunderstood my point, Mike! Go stand in the back of your hall and think about it! This has *NOTHING* to do with the artistry of the Tubists and Bassists!!! It has *EVERYTHING* to do with sound! With the Tubist's bell pointing up and the Contras playing into other folks backs...the Trombones are driving that figure... BTW, I have also played with some outstanding Tubists and agree with you regarding their abilities! (wasn't this originally about articulation on low Eb?) Great program notes by Matt Varho! Best Regards, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Mathews Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:49 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: B-Trb in Finlandia I have to respectfully disagree with Paul Hill when he says, "Have your friend take a look at the Tuba and Contrabass parts. *THEY* will sound like mud unless the Bass Tbn gives the ENTIRE MESS some articulation...that is Sibelius' point! This is typical of material written in octaves for Tuba and Bass Tbn: the Tuba provides the foundation (mass) and the Bass Tbn provides the punch (articulation)." I have had the pleasure of playing B-Trb next to some fine tubists (Steve Seward, Warren Deck, Ed Livingston, Gil Long -- even Roger Bobo, back in our high school days) and have found that they can articulate as well as anyone else in any register. I realize that there are some sluggish tubists out there but certainly that does not apple to all of them. Mike Mathews Mike Mathews Director of Instrumental Studies Missouri Western State College mathews@mwsc.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:01:41 -0500 (EST) From: Eugene Grissom To: Subject: record collection Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII TB & related issues forum A 78" record collection for sale as a complete unit or could be donated to an edcational institution or a not-for-profit organization. Packaged and shipped ???? Would rather it be picked up? Ammons, Auld, Armstrong, Barnet,Bechet, Basie, Berigan, Barnet, Bradley, Condon, Crosby, Carmichael, Dorseys, Ellington, Freeman, Goodman, Gray, Herman, harris, Hawkins, Hacket, Hodges, Kenton, Krupa, Kirk, Lulnsford, McShann, Ory, Whiteman, etc..etc..etc.... If interested send for a more compete listing and include stamped return envelope and/or email. Eugene E. Grissom / Professor Emeritus Frank Rosolino Memorial Fund, Inc. 4607 Clear Lake Drive Gainesville, FL 32607 (egtbone@nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:28:23 -0400 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Finlandia bass part - double tongue Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020305121924.00b8c188@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > 2. Are the professional players able to play this sort of thing? Double-tounged or single? Once again, I seem to find myself with a minority view. I don't understand the reluctance to use double tonguing as the majority seem to say here. A good double tongue cannot be distinguished from a single tongue in terms of clarity of articulation and precision of timing. Of course it gets more difficult to execute as the notes are lower, but low Eb is very achievable. Practice lots of double- and triple-tongued pedals, including moving passages in the pedal register, and you will find that the Eb is not too difficult. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Boston recital Message-ID: <20020305162028.56637.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Karna is a very talented student of Norman Bolter at New England Conservatory. I'm forwarding this along because I think it will be a very enjoyable recital...wish I could be there myself... Gabe --- Karna England wrote: > Hey all! > > Thought I'd let you all know about my recital... > > Friday, March 8, 8:30pm > New England Conservatory - Brown Hall > > I'm doing Vivaldi Cello Sonata no. 1, Norman wrote a > duet for my sister and I, also doing his "Song of King > David", Jongen Aria and Polonaise, Webern "Langsamer > Satz" for tbn. 4tet, and Mahler Songs of a Wayfarer. > > If you're free, hope to see you there! > Karna > > p.s. My mom makes great reception food. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball > http://sports.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:02 EST From: "Art Triggs" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A flat tuning Message-ID: <3c84f122.e432.0@bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian, Walter, You said they tuned up??????????? lol >On 3/5/02 3:32 AM, Adrian Drover expounded thusly... > >> >> From: Tom Izzo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> More often Saxophes were made in Low Pitch & High Pitch models, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Do they still make these? In one of the bands I play with, the sax section >> tune to 5 different pitches. >> >> A. >> >> Adrian Drover >> ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk >> Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk >> >Gee, Adrian, you're so lucky to have such good saxophonists! Most of the >ones I get to play with tune up to about 8 pitches each! >-- >Walter Barrett > >"ThereÕs more bad music in jazz than any other form. Maybe thatÕs because >the audience doesnÕt really know whatÕs happening." > -Pat Metheny > > > >Yamaha Artist/Clinician >Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones >Euphonium >Bass Trumpet >Tuba > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:34:30 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Doublers? Message-ID: <20020305163430.56987.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dean McCarty wrote: > The only one that comes to my mind is Tom Malone (North > Texas Grad.) out of > New York (David Letterman band). > He seems to play everything else too! I've never seen him pick up a trumpet on Letterman, but I've seen him play piccolo and, recently, bari sax! Cool! Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:48:06 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue Message-ID: <454FC5BC266BDB4BBA26E5BBF2F73FEF11B7BD@torxchng1.dwpv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with Craig. I double tongue it, unless the conductor goes so slow that single is possible. Its not that hard. You just have to practise it. Go from "the possible" to and beyond "the challenging". For example, do the rhythm, double tonguing, starting on low Bb, then descend on a Bb major scale pattern, repeating the pattern a couple of times on each note, down to pedal Bb. Don't blat the last note of the pattern. Rest that tongue when necessary. The lower notes probably will sound poor at first, but keep doing it and the low Eb will seem easy. Also do the pattern single tonguing, in case the tempo permits. When the coordination goes, stop and move on to something else for a while. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Parmerlee [mailto:craig@acticalc.com] Sent: March 5, 2002 11:28 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Finlandia bass part - double tongue > 2. Are the professional players able to play this sort of thing? Double-tounged or single? Once again, I seem to find myself with a minority view. I don't understand the reluctance to use double tonguing as the majority seem to say here. A good double tongue cannot be distinguished from a single tongue in terms of clarity of articulation and precision of timing. Of course it gets more difficult to execute as the notes are lower, but low Eb is very achievable. Practice lots of double- and triple-tongued pedals, including moving passages in the pedal register, and you will find that the Eb is not too difficult. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:54:10 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Finlandia bass part - double tongue Message-ID: <20020305165410.60072.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Thomas Smee wrote: > You just > have to > practise it. Go from "the possible" to and beyond "the > challenging". For > example, do the rhythm, double tonguing, starting on low > Bb, then > descend on a Bb major scale pattern, repeating the > pattern a couple of > times on each note, down to pedal Bb. I'll add another bit of practicing advice to this one - practice it softly for a while before trying to play the figure at volume. And remember, you don't have to play it as loud as you might think for the desired effect - cleanly in time is MUCH more important than overwhelming volume. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:01:49 -0500 From: "Dave Wank" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A flat tuning Message-ID: <001601c1c467$71743000$a598fea9@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They are probably not just tuning their fundamental, just like we don't tune just our F. If they used both high and low pitched saxes, your sax section would be like 20-30 cents away from each other. Quite normal, I would say! dave wank ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:02:35 -0500 From: Bruce Guttman To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Olds V Conn Message-ID: <200203051202_MC3-F46F-F9D1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message text written by INTERNET:steve@inside14.demon.co.uk >Can anyone tell me whether I might even notice a difference between an early 60's Connstellation and a 1973 Olds Custom P16< Steve: Whether you notice a difference is a function of how advanced a player you are. If you are a relatively new "reentrant" player, my opinion is you won't notice a difference. Your Olds is a fine Big Band era instrument. We had a member of the On-Line Trombone Journal Forum, Tom Mathis (sadly deceased) who used to play an Olds Super for studio work, but he was asked to switch to a Bach 8 because his sound was "old-fashioned". Understand that Tom was playing in the Los Angeles Studio area, and the people he played with were absolutely top-flight musicians. In this case, the sound of the Olds made a difference. If you are playing in the "West Eppinham Downs Big Band", it probably won't make a difference, IMO. Understand, that the Connstellation is also an excellent horn. Many people like them for jazz. A smaller bell will allow you to "cut" through on high lead lines. A larger bell will give you more sound, but it won't focus as well. The choice is yours. If I were in your shoes, I would play the Olds and put any money you would have spent on the Conn for lessons with a good teacher. Above all else, enjoy music!!! Bruce Guttman Londonderry, NH, USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:19:12 EST From: AlexS15017@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Finlandia bass part Message-ID: <195.3393fb7.29b65810@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BassBonist@aol.com writes: >The sixteenth note figures you are referring to each time they appear in Finlandia are musical representations of machine gun bursts, Russian machine guns specifically. The subtext is about the Russian oppression of the Finnish people and the Finlandia theme represents the triumph of the national spirit during a time of "Russification."< Snip. That is a very colorful, dramatic and imaginative description of the musical poem but very far from actual reality and facts. First of all in 1899 when Finlandia was written Finland was an autonomous province (guberniya) of the Russian Empire. Finland was never oppressed by Russia, on the contrary, in 1809 Russia helped the Finns to get rid of the Swedish rule and established their own government. There was no so called "Russification" of Finland as the Finnish people never had to learn Russian language as they had to learn Swedish. They still have to learn Swedish as their second language. As a matter of fact, the Russian tzar Alexander II was very much loved by the Finns and they had named after him the main street in Helsinki Aleksanterinkatu, the square in the center city - Aleksanterinaukio, the main book store - Aleksanterikirjakauppa, and a cake - Aleksanterinleivos. They even have the monument to Alexander II in front of the central cathedral! As far as the "machine guns" is concerned, the Russian Army simply didn't have enough of those guns to fight anybody in 1899. John Moses Browning produced his first machine-gun in 1890. Knowing even a little history, Russians never fought Finns until 1936. Even that war, in which the Soviet Union failed miserably, was about some territorial dispute. The border of Finland, which was collaborating with the Nazi Germany at the time, was less than 20 miles from Leningrad where all the Soviet shipyards and ammunition factories were. I am not that smart and educated, I learned half of it from my Finnish girlfriend. She says she never heard of such musical representations at the Helsinki Sibelius Academy where she studied. Sincerely, Alex Siniavski . ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:29:17 -0500 From: "Denny Seifried" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re:Doublers Message-ID: <001301c1c46b$47c80480$cf735acf@dseifried> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List Members, One really great doubler who I remember, from the year I spent at North Texas State Univ. (now University of North Texas) in 1966-67, was the great trumpet player/arranger/composer, Bill Stapelton. The year I was a NTSU, Bill played the jazz chair, on trumpet, in the One O'Clock; and I believe he played lead trombone in the 6 O'Clock Band. Bill was truly a talented guy, as many of you probably remember him from The Woody Herman Band. Denny Seifried Bass Trombone-Dayton Jazz Orchestra & Springfield Symphony Orch. Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:38:50 -0500 From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Doublers Message-ID: <037701c1c46c$9c815c00$70d92444@union1.nj.home.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT James Morrison is also a great doubler (http://www.jamesmorrison.com.au). Check out his "digital trumpet." And any guy with a web page dedicated to drummer jokes can't be all bad! Oh, and Maynard Ferguson technically plays a trombone also - the Superbone. Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com www.dalecruse.com For effective visual communication ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Seifried" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 12:29 PM Subject: Re:Doublers > List Members, > > One really great doubler who I remember, from the year I spent at North > Texas State Univ. (now University of North Texas) in 1966-67, was the great > trumpet player/arranger/composer, Bill Stapelton. The year I was a NTSU, > Bill played the jazz chair, on trumpet, in the One O'Clock; and I believe he > played lead trombone in the 6 O'Clock Band. > > Bill was truly a talented guy, as many of you probably remember him from The > Woody Herman Band. > > Denny Seifried > Bass Trombone-Dayton Jazz Orchestra & Springfield Symphony Orch. > Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2319--