Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Bear's There (Three Bears Suite?) by "Adrian Drover" 2) alto horn mouthpiece by "Daniel Pliskin" 3) RE: alto horn mouthpiece by "Jayson Rowe" 4) Re: A Rude Awakening by "Chris Waage" 5) Re: A Rude Awakening by Craig Parmerlee 6) Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H by Stephen Troy 7) Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H by "Matthew Stoecker" 8) Re: Bear's There (Three Bears Suite?) by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 9) Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H by "Hugh Lee" 10) alto horn mouthpiece by Bruce Guttman 11) re: Rude Awakening by "Paul Johnston" 12) Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H by Craig Parmerlee 13) RE: Rude Awakening by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 14) RE: On the decline in popularity of the 88H by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 15) Re: A Rude Awakening by william david proctor 16) test by Eric & Candice Swanson 17) test by Eric & Candice Swanson 18) 62H (was 88H) Anonymous by Joestanko@aol.com 19) Re: alto horn mouthpiece by Andrew Michael 20) RE: alto horn mouthpiece by "Tom Izzo" 21) Re: A Rude Awakening by "Gary D. Maxwell" 22) HELP!!! by Bruce Faske 23) Re: HELP!!! by "Richard B. Human, Jr." 24) HELP!!! by Bruce Guttman 25) Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 26) a side note to my HELP!!! dilemma... by Bruce Faske 27) Rosolino photo by Eugene Grissom 28) Re: HELP!!! by BassBonist@aol.com 29) New slide by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marius_Helg=E5?= 30) RE: New slide by "Jon Moeller" 31) Re: New slide by "Adrian Drover" 32) Re: New slide by Earl Needham 33) RE: HELP!!! by Steve Gamble 34) RE: New slide by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marius_Helg=E5?= 35) Re: HELP!!! by REOnofreyJ@aol.com 36) Horn parts prices (was "New slide") by Craig Parmerlee 37) Re: Horn parts prices (was "New slide") by Eric & Candice Swanson 38) RE: Horn parts prices (was "New slide") by Steve Gamble 39) Re: alto horn mouthpiece by "Daniel Pliskin" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:42:30 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bear's There (Three Bears Suite?) Message-ID: <009601c1c081$fe9d2430$767c68d5@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" > Adrian, > > You can have vellum, you can have laid, or you can have parchment, but > it's not like five-way chili, you can't have all three. Oh darn it! I'll just take the chilli then. Does that come with fries and maple syrup? A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:04:34 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: alto horn mouthpiece Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I just bought an alto horn. Itās very cute and itās my first experience with valves. There are evidently two different size shanks for alto horns and none of them is similar to any other instrument. Also, what is considered to be a large mouthpiece for an alto horn has a cup diameter of 19 mm. Now, I play a medium-bore tenor with a Bach 4 mouthpiece. Whatās the chance that I can compromise, somehow, and come up with a mouthpiece that I can play, while having a shank that will fit the alto horn? Iām willing to buy a trombone mouthpiece and change the shank, but is there an easier way to go about this? DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:12:02 -0500 From: "Jayson Rowe" To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: alto horn mouthpiece Message-ID: <000601c1c083$6be19840$6601a8c0@SNOOPY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I play Alto Horn as well, and I can say from experience, you won't get a good "Alto Horn" sound with a shanked down Trombone mouthpiece. It doesn't really bother me to switch around, since I play trumpet also, but I would go in the 18.5 to 19 mm range... Hope this helps. Jayson Rowe -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:05 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: alto horn mouthpiece I just bought an alto horn. It's very cute and it's my first experience with valves. There are evidently two different size shanks for alto horns and none of them is similar to any other instrument. Also, what is considered to be a large mouthpiece for an alto horn has a cup diameter of 19 mm. Now, I play a medium-bore tenor with a Bach 4 mouthpiece. What's the chance that I can compromise, somehow, and come up with a mouthpiece that I can play, while having a shank that will fit the alto horn? I'm willing to buy a trombone mouthpiece and change the shank, but is there an easier way to go about this? DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:21:35 -0800 From: "Chris Waage" To: Subject: Re: A Rude Awakening Message-ID: <200202281021.AA25952580@trombone.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Taking a year off is a dangerous thing, especially between high school and college. The odds are about 4 to 1 that the student may never go on to college. I beat the odds - I took off a year because I just didn't know what I wanted to do. Luckily, I had friends and mentors who were helping guide me to get into college. The other problem I ran into was that my study habits (which were not stellar to begin with!) were nearly nonexistent when I entered my freshman year. The year off really allowed me to let go of any good study habits that remained from college. Perhaps another solution might be the community/junior college scene. Work like a maniac on the music, and get some of the prerequesites satisfied.Ź Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Andrew Michael Reply-To: andy@coastside.net Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:57:32 -0800 >Could this student take a year off to concentrate on practice and then >reapply to colleges? How would schools view that? > >Andy > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:31:58 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: A Rude Awakening Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020228112348.00baa640@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:14 AM 2/28/2002 -0500, Paul D. Kemp, Jr. wrote: My take on this whole thing? I think it's a good thing. Here in the state of Tennessee I have seen some absolutely deplorable band directors who flat out are in it for the paycheck, and believe me, I understand the problems with public education, but who is ultimately paying the price? You get all types as High School band directors. I know many of them in my locale. Some are definitely in this paycheck mode, but some are very dedicated. However, here's the thing. If you were to ask the good ones what are the 5 most important things they are trying to accomplish, I don't believe preparing their prize students to get admitted to the best conservatory would be on anybody's list. I don't believe they think this is part of their responsibility. Their Maslov pyramid is something like this. 1. Make it through a week without having to break up a fight involving knives and/or drugs. 2. Make it through the semester without being accused of some sort of misconduct by parents who litigate at the drop of a hat 3. Make sure there are enough instruments and uniforms to go around, 4. Try to bring the lowest common denominator in your bands up to the point that you are competitive with other schools in the area. 5. It there is any time or energy left, look around to see if there are some stars to whom you can give a little extra encouragement. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:30:10 -0500 From: Stephen Troy To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020228133010.008ef100@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:48 AM 2/28/2002 -0600, Hugh Lee wrote: > >In particular, I found the Edwards, which seems to be very popular >in the south, to produce a big, solid, if somewhat indistinct and >unremarkable sound. Although this may reflect my limitations as a >player, I have to admit that I can't figure out what all the excitement >is about. Not to pick on Hugh, but I have always wondered about statements like this. There are so many combinations of Edwards parts, I doubt it is possible to say "I tried an Edwards and it's..." I have two Edwards setups - a couple 8.5" bells to go with the .547 slide and an 8" for my .525/.547 slide. These two setups play nothing at all like each other, and each have their separate uses. The smaller setup to me doesn't make a big, solid, etc. sound while my larger setup with a heavy red brass bell might qualify. I think the modular setups like Shires and Edwards are far too difficult to evaluate by trying out one or two preassembled horns. But I constantly hear "I tried an Edwards/Shires and it was wonderful/terrible/whatever." Steve Troy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:56:51 -0800 From: "Matthew Stoecker" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C046.A0645C20" Well, maybe I'm the oddball here, but I've never played aŹlarge bore tenor that I liked as well as my Elkhart 88H, except possibly my Elkhart 8H. I've tried several different Edwards configurations and found them lacking. When I asked to play my colleague's brand new Shires, I gave it back one minute later, because it just didn't compare. But this is me. I think horn choice is such a personal thing that its impossible to make a statement that such and such is better than so and so. There are many fine players that play Edwards or Shires and sound great, and they doubtless make some excellent horns. Let us not forget, though, that the 88H was at one time the pinnacle of trombone design, and is still the standard by which it is measured. I'm sure there are still many fine players who play an old 88H or Bach 42B. And finally, I have known some trombone players that would sound better on a Bundy than I ever would on any horn. So, play whatever makes you sound best. Use your ears, not your eyes. Don't give into fads for their own sake, but if the latest is truly the greatest for you, then that's what you must play. Matthew Stoecker ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Troy Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:35 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H At 10:48 AM 2/28/2002 -0600, Hugh Lee wrote: > >In particular, I found the Edwards, which seems to be very popular >in the south, to produce a big, solid, if somewhat indistinct and >unremarkable sound. Although this may reflect my limitations as a >player, I have to admit that I can't figure out what all the excitement >is about. Not to pick on Hugh, but I have always wondered about statements like this. There are so many combinations of Edwards parts, I doubt it is possible to say "I tried an Edwards and it's..." I have two Edwards setups - a couple 8.5" bells to go with the .547 slide and an 8" for my .525/.547 slide. These two setups play nothing at all like each other, and each have their separate uses. The smaller setup to me doesn't make a big, solid, etc. sound while my larger setup with a heavy red brass bell might qualify. I think the modular setups like Shires and Edwards are far too difficult to evaluate by trying out one or two preassembled horns. But I constantly hear "I tried an Edwards/Shires and it was wonderful/terrible/whatever." Steve Troy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:07:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: Adrian Drover Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bear's There (Three Bears Suite?) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Adrian Drover wrote: > Oh darn it! I'll just take the chilli then. Does that come with fries and > maple syrup? You'll have to check with someone from Cincinnati, but that's probably only legal in Canada. Carole ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:39:09 -0600 From: "Hugh Lee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H Message-ID: <3C7E32FB.11473.EE0163@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Not to pick on Hugh, but I have always wondered about statements like this. > There are so many combinations of Edwards parts, I doubt it is possible to > say "I tried an Edwards and it's..." Fair enough. I could have been more specific. The setup was a .547 bore and an 8.5 bell, although I don't remember whether it was the rose brass or yellow brass variety. Regardless, I admit that there are many, many variables which can be changed - boy how we trombone players love to tinker! - and which will effect the quality of the instrument. And I also agree that this is a very personal question - nonetheless, I would still be interested in knowing if there is any consensus or if anyone has compiled the numbers on the relative popularity of different horns. Hugh ______________________________________________________ Hugh M. Lee Managing Attorney, Alabama Lawyers Research Service Director, Student Legal Clinic University of Alabama School of Law Post Office Box 870383 Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35487-0383 (205) 348-0300 (phone) (205) 348-1112 (fax) hlee@law.ua.edu Nothing in this e-mail message should be construed as legal advice. This email is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Any review or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient or any retransmission without the consent of the sender is prohibited. The views or opinions expressed by the sender of this email are not necessarily those of the institution. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:39:10 -0500 From: Bruce Guttman To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: alto horn mouthpiece Message-ID: <200202281439_MC3-F3D2-C85B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message text written by INTERNET:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com >Now, I play a medium-bore tenor with a Bach 4 mouthpiece. Whatās the chance that I can compromise, somehow, and come up with a mouthpiece that I can play, while having a shank that will fit the alto horn?< I have an Eb "bass" flugelhorn (Couesnon). It is supposed to take a similar mouthpiece to an alto horn (at least the larger size). What I did was to have a Conn 3 mouthpiece turned down 0.020" (diameter) all through the shank. The mouthpice fits, and plays more-or-less in tune. Also, if you can measure the exact taper, Doug Elliott can custom make a shank for you to fit one of his smaller series (ST). Hope this helps Bruce Guttman Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band Section Leader, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:50:00 -0600 From: "Paul Johnston" To: "Trombone-L \(E-mail\)" Subject: re: Rude Awakening Message-ID: I have been reading this thread and as I am sitting here I have to voice my opinion. First these opinions come from someone who has taught at small rural public schools and has taught or teaches at the college level also. The biggest thing that concerns me is I am getting the idea (although I realize that this may not be the intent) that because a child has been in a bad band program or hasn't had the opportunities to be an "accomplished" high school musician, that child does not deserve to be a music major or specifically a music ed. major regardless of grade point avg. or desire. So they don't get to go the "name" school. Some of the best music educators (notice that I didn't say band directors) I have seen and known did not go to "name" schools. They are still good players and most importantly, good teachers. Is it the student's fault that because of teacher shortages they got stuck with a teacher who merely collects a paycheck and does little else? Most of the time the students really only know what they have been taught and exposed to. Do any of you teachers at the big colleges recommend other options (smaller colleges, 2 year colleges, etc...)? The area I live in.....Western Arkansas/Eastern Oklahoma is not a rich area outside of the larger cities. We have many small, fairly remote school systems in the Ozark Mountains (not to be funny, but think of the movie Deliverance). I had students in the public schools that had 1 1/2 to 2 hour bus rides to and from school and if they missed the bus they didn't get home or to school. Many of these kids families lived below the poverty level. Unless we could catch a 10 to 15 minute lesson sometime during the day, it didn't happen. Does this mean that the student should not be able to proceed on a career choice. No! But here is where I agree with Daniel. It may take longer. I currently teach at a college that was just approved to go from two year to four year on Jan. 1. We get a lot of those students. And yes, some shouldn't continue in music, but others end up doing very well. Either they have to work harder, or it may take a little longer, but they still can be successful. We hopefully will start to get students staying around for four years now, but in the past we would in a year or two get them up to, or usually better then the avg. area high schooler going into college. So it takes an extra year. Show me a current music ed. degree that just about doesn't take 5 years now anyway. If it is a successful school with a large instrument studio I have no problem with "raising the bar" for entrance, but let's not slam the door shut on some because of situation. We need to give them opportunities, but not free rides. Have options or suggestions. Sorry for the rant, it is just in this day and age the opinion of you have to be great to succeed, with scads of "talent", no one else need apply......., I get a little nuts. In the past, I taught college music education classes and I firmly believe what I taught those students.........that I can take almost any student and with some work on their part, help them to achieve success in music. I strongly believe that music may be one of the few areas that can say that. Now, for some of those students, success may just be the ability to function in a group. For others, even without the support from home and the proper background, but with desire and hard work the sky is the limit. Enough for today, I have reread my post and don't think that I contradicted myself anywhere. Some days this is a good thing. ;-) Paul Bass Trombone - Fort Smith Symphony Bass Trombone - North Arkansas Symphony Adjunct Faculty - Low Brass - University of Arkansas - Fort Smith P.S. I really am not always this way.....but with what my wife (a special education behavioral consultant) and I see in our area we need to give these kids all of the opportunities we can, because they aren't getting them from home. And the alternative is not pretty. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Paul Johnston - MCSE, MCT Instructor Business and Professional Institute University of Arkansas - Fort Smith 5210 Grand Ave. P.O. Box 3649 Fort Smith, AR 72913-3649 (479)788-7777 Fax (479)788-7780 pjohnsto@bpi.uafortsmith.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:09:07 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020228150039.00ba6d98@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Exactly I have assembled a very similar to what Stephen describes below and I agree with every word of his post. These combinations vary so widely as to defeat any generalized statement. It is like saying "I have tried American cars and they don't work for me." When you have multiple slides, bells, leadpipes, and mouthpieces to choose from, and when you want to optimize the sound for a particular musical situation, it can be hard to remember exactly how each combination behaves. Call me anal retentive, but this modular system allows so many permutations that I have taken to build an Excel spreadsheet that captures my observations about the combinations that I like best. Cheers, Craig At 01:30 PM 2/28/2002 -0500, Stephen Troy wrote: At 10:48 AM 2/28/2002 -0600, Hugh Lee wrote: > >In particular, I found the Edwards, which seems to be very popular >in the south, to produce a big, solid, if somewhat indistinct and >unremarkable sound. Although this may reflect my limitations as a >player, I have to admit that I can't figure out what all the excitement >is about. Not to pick on Hugh, but I have always wondered about statements like this. There are so many combinations of Edwards parts, I doubt it is possible to say "I tried an Edwards and it's..." I have two Edwards setups - a couple 8.5" bells to go with the .547 slide and an 8" for my .525/.547 slide. These two setups play nothing at all like each other, and each have their separate uses. The smaller setup to me doesn't make a big, solid, etc. sound while my larger setup with a heavy red brass bell might qualify. I think the modular setups like Shires and Edwards are far too difficult to evaluate by trying out one or two preassembled horns. But I constantly hear "I tried an Edwards/Shires and it was wonderful/terrible/whatever." Steve Troy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:41:28 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Rude Awakening Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E7124A3C@marshall.jmls.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This thread seems to be diverging into a number of different directions. It started out with a warning to students and their parents that if they wanted to major in music, they had to be pretty good to get into a good school. It isn't enough to drift through high school without learning to get a good sound, read music, count, etc. and then try to cram several years of experience into one crash year of lessons. Someone else pointed out, on the other hand, that at least some students in some school districts do not have the luxury of taking lessons in high school. This should not prevent them from getting into a music program in college. Others have pointed out that it is possible to make up for opportunities lost (to circumstances either beyond or within the student's control) by such expedients as taking extra time to complete the bachelors degree or starting out at a community college before trying to get in to a really good program at a four-year institution. A lot of it comes down to a student's motivation. At some point, no matter what they decide to do with their life, they will have to commit to it. They will have to work hard at something. If for whatever reason they get to college with a poor background in it, they will have to work even harder. One thing that I have often said is that students have to know what their options are and what choosing any one of them entails. They also have to have an idea of how to get from where they are to where they want to go. That can be hard for an adult. I don't suppose it is ever too early for teachers to impress on students how important it is to think ahead and develop self discipline. That's true whether the student eventually decides to become the next Joe Alessi or Abbie Conant, or a band director, or a freelance musician, or a 9th-chair tenor in a community band. In my own case, I knew from the time I was in 7th grade that I wanted to be a musician. I went to solo and ensemble contests. I took lessons with my band directors. I seem to recall my parents hiring a private teacher to come to the house, although he probably canceled as many lessons as he came for. I started taking lessons on a truly serious basis the summer after my junior year. Once in college, I made my decisions based on what I liked doing at any given moment. I tried to cram in way too many different things. I took no thought for what any of my decisions would imply for more than the immediate future. All the while, I thought I was hard working and disciplined, but I was very unfocused--and probably not as disciplined as I thought I was. I have been paying for that all my life. I wish I could make a lot of decisions all over again--a few decisions that I made after careful consideration and a lot of decisions I made so quickly that I wasn't aware I was deciding anything. Isn't that what got this thread started? A teacher wanting to minimize that kind of future regrets for his student? High school is not too soon to learn how to focus. College may be soon enough. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloging Librarian The John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:44:36 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'sctroy@erols.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: On the decline in popularity of the 88H Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FD0F7@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1C098.BC1DB4F0" There are so many combinations of Edwards parts, I doubt it is possible to say "I tried an Edwards and it's..." ... Steve Troy ========== I have to echo Steve's comments here. I just tried my old Edwards combination out with one of their dual radius tuning slides at TMEA and was amazed at the difference in the horn. When I selected my initial set up, I spent a number of hours trying different conponents, yellow, rose brass, dual bore slides, single slides. I settled on a combo that felt good for me and did not get the dual radius tuning slide at time of purchase. Now a year later, this new part helps me play the horn better, I think easier. My instructor says I sound better with it. We will see... Rick Marple San Antonio TX ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:02:03 -0700 From: william david proctor To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A Rude Awakening Message-ID: <1292642064.1014904923@dhcp-120-0424.unm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Here is a little of my development as a musician: Out of high school, I was a better-than-average player, but not by much. I wasn't ready at the time to commit my entire life to a field of study, so I went to college with an undecided major. I played in marching and concert bands, but not until the end of my first year did I decide to pursue music. Fortunately, I'd had a year of college so I had taken a lot of the required general classes and gotten used to a college lifestyle. Upon beginning study as a Music Ed major, I had to basically relearn the trombone. My embouchure required a major adjustment and my technique and musicality were way behind most of the incoming freshman music majors. But I worked. Everyday. At least three hours (not all at once!). Near the end of the year, I had made lots of progress, and my teacher felt that my somewhat thick lips and good low register made me a prime bass trombone candidate, so I made the switch. Since then, I've competed at the Eastern Trombone Workshop's competition 3 times, played in several jazz bands, orchestras, and various other concert groups, and am now doing graduate performance work on a full tuition waiver. I've advanced beyond a lot of the guys who were "ahead" of me, largely because: 1. I was determined to improve 2. I had very good teachers (excellent performers who can communicate well with students) 3. I did what my teachers recommended So, from my perspective, if a student wants to study music, by all means, he/she should be allowed to do so. But a mediocre player must be willing to push the limits and improve. Starting off slow should not deter anyone. I know because I was a "late-bloomer". But anyone who wants to pursue music had better understand that if you won't work for improvement--and work hard--you won't get much out of it. My least-favorite, too-often-heard-phrase from fellow music students was, "I don't need to practice, I just want to teach." Baloney. Great music teachers must be great musicians. Just remember, they rarely start out as such. They must be allowed to grow and learn. David Proctor bass trombone, University of New Mexico --On Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:14 AM -0500 "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." wrote: Dear List, I would like to relate an incident that has recently happened to one of my students, and all of the parties involved shall remain nameless. I have a student who is a high school senior and who scholastically is EXCELLENT--a score of 31 on the ACT, which pretty much guarantees him admittance into any college of his choice, with a promise of scholarship money, and he's carrying a strong 4.0 GPA. However, he happens to be a part of a high school band program that, quite frankly, is not very good. After hearing me play in church one Sunday morning, his parents see that their son needs private instruction, and I gladly take him on, but he's a junior, and he has come to me several days late and several dollars short. This student of mine would really like to go into music education, and I want to do everything that I can to help, naturally. He has auditioned for one school, and while the committee sees that his ACT test score is excellent, they are not very impressed with his audition. He is going to another school on Friday, and after talking with the trombone professor at this school, he asks me very pointed questions such as 1) How does he read? 2) Does he play pretty well in tune? 3) Can he play a decent phrase? After honestly answering his questions, he tells me that they have quite a large trombone studio already, and that even though he would like to hear this young man play, he feels quite certain that after hearing this round of auditions, that there will most certainly be some rejections because there is simply not enough room for borderline students in their program. I spoke with another colleague of mine, and I got pretty much the same answer, but as a courtesy to me, that he would give this student a free lesson, and also give him some very definite guidelines on how to prepare for the audition, which will be in another month. However, this colleague definitely let me know that he is getting pressure from the dean of the school that he expects college freshmen to be playing at a certain level, and to be quite frank, this kid isn't ready. I spoke with another colleague, and they are hurting for trombone players, and like I've already said, ACT score is UP THERE, and there is also the possibility of him going to the large state university, and again, getting accepted into the school is not a problem. It's getting accepted into the music department that seems to be the rub. I'm not asking for any advice this time, but to let the high school population on this list know that getting fantastic grades simply isn't good enough. If you're not taking private lessons, and you feel pretty certain that you want to major in music, even music education, FIND SOMEONE AND START TAKING LESSONS, and the earlier, the better. Don't wait until you're a junior or senior in high school. This young man's high school band situation is unfortunate, because he's not getting any kind of help at all from his band director--he's a good student, and I'm doing everything that I can to help him, but there's only so much that I can do in the private studio, and he spends far more time in band than in my studio. My take on this whole thing? I think it's a good thing. Here in the state of Tennessee I have seen some absolutely deplorable band directors who flat out are in it for the paycheck, and believe me, I understand the problems with public education, but who is ultimately paying the price? Our kids. It's a well known fact that all disciplines of education are hurting for teachers, and we need good ones, and I personally feel that the better you can play, the better you can teach. That fact seems to have gone by the wayside, and if there are trombone professors out there in these colleges who are raising the bar for the students arriving into their studios, this to me looks like a good way of rectifying a less than favorable situation. I would very much like for the college trombone professors on this list to respond to this post, and if you have any other points to make, I'd like to save these for my own future reference. Paul D. Kemp Jr. Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:04:37 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson To: trombone-l Subject: test Message-ID: <3C7E8D54.A40F3F1@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, need to test new DSL ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:05:03 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson To: trombone-l Subject: test Message-ID: <3C7E8D6F.4FC7D333@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, please delete ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:49:49 EST From: Joestanko@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: 62H (was 88H) Anonymous Message-ID: <144.a4e3a08.29affffd@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_144.a4e3a08.29affffd_boundary" In addition to the 88H, 62H bass trombone is not often seen. The 62H was used in every kind of playing situation - recording, orchestral, and opera. At what point it dropped off radar screen I don't know, but it's a great instrument. Unfortunately, in my opinion, UMI's new version of the 62H doesn't have the same character of the original. Most of the 6x Conns that turn up don't seem to be in very good condition, but remain an excellent choice of bass trombone. Joe Stanko ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:16:34 -0800 From: Andrew Michael To: Subject: Re: alto horn mouthpiece Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Message text written by INTERNET:daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com Also, if you can measure the exact taper, Doug Elliott can custom make a shank for you to fit one of his smaller series (ST). Actually, Doug even made me one that fits the LT series. Even though it is an unusual (possibly unique) horn he didn't need to measure it. He just sent me one shank and then when it didn't fit quite right made another and it was perfect based on my fit description. But, I agree with someone else who said this approach will never really get an alto horn sound. But for me, my little alto horn is really a travel instrument (it's even more compact than the Couesnon Eb flugels) that approximates an alto trombone. My mouthpiece approach is take the rim that works on my tenor, change the cup and shank from there to match my alto trombone, from there change the cup and shank so it works on the alto horn. But, by work I mean I can play it and it provides practice that translates back onto my alto trombone and doesn't screw up my tenor embrochure. So, like everything else how you approach this mouthpiece depends on what you want to do with the alto horn. It may also provide tuning problems as the volume of the mouthpiece is far larger than a true alto horn mouthpiece. Andy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:00:36 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: alto horn mouthpiece Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:05 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: alto horn mouthpiece I just bought an alto horn. Itās very cute and itās my first experience with valves. There are evidently two different size shanks for alto horns and none of them is similar to any other instrument. Also, what is considered to be a large mouthpiece for an alto horn has a cup diameter of 19 mm. Now, I play a medium-bore tenor with a Bach 4 mouthpiece. Whatās the chance that I can compromise, somehow, and come up with a mouthpiece that I can play, while having a shank that will fit the alto horn? Iām willing to buy a trombone mouthpiece and change the shank, but is there an easier way to go about this? Of course, Dan, that's what's so good about Doug Elliott mp's. Seemingly endless varieties of combinations for ANY instruments. Heck, I have a Bass Trb "mp" that fits into a Piccolo Trumpet. Tom DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:13:44 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A Rude Awakening Message-ID: <003401c1c0be$589ba880$01525d3f@garymaxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Bruce Guttman" > One thing we don't need is more incompetent teachers. Our kids have a hard > enough time with good teachers. =========================================================================== Amen brother! Now we need to look at the incompetent Administrators. 'Nuther rant. Required trombone content: I'm on a pretty good high today. A seventh grade bone student, of mine, came to lesson today and played an (unassigned) 2 Octave Eb Major scale. UP & Down. Starting in the staff and going up. It seems that he remembered an off hand remark made by myself to my woodwinds that "Unlike the brass, all woodwinds must learn the Concert Eb scale 2 octaves up and down. In fact, I'll bet a bag of Snickers that none of our brass would come close." Couple of points here: 1. Middle school students DO listen ----------- sometimes. 2. ANYTHING can be done if you want it enough. Gotta go buy some candy. Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:28:14 -0600 From: Bruce Faske To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: HELP!!! Message-ID: <001c01c1c0c0$5bff0ce0$2503fea9@Slaveone> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_AFOmt1UzZICVa2umWhJA6Q)" Greetings fellow slidemen and slidewomen! After undergraduate study at a Texas university, I have relocated to a town with one of the best junior college bands in the state, and I am currently playing euphonium with the top band. We instituted a weekly one hour session devoted to ensemble music (to help us learn to blend as a section, and for variety - many of the players get tired with the band music). The problem comes when we crack open a new piece, and more than one part is in tenor clef. We're faced with either playing bass-clef-only music, which isn't much of a challenge, or trying to teach them tenor clef THROUGH the music.ŹŹBeyond spoonfeeding them and writing the parts out in bass clef myself, what can I do? (After all, junior college IS college, and as a requirement for the top band, the players must sign up for this ensemble class) Any suggestions on selections, or clef teaching methods? Thanks for any help, Bruce ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:35:43 -0600 From: "Richard B. Human, Jr." To: , Trombone List Subject: Re: HELP!!! Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Bruce, The best text I know of is Reginald Fink's "Introducing the Tenor Clef." Daily practice (4-5 exercises a day) in that book will result in fairly-good tenor clef competency within three-four weeks. After that I think it's a matter of reading some tenor clef every day for a while until it sinks in. When doing the Fink one fun thing to do is have the students say the notes and move the slide without playing. Also, transposing the key up or down a half step makes the brain work a bit as well. Buy four or five of the Finks and spend 8 minutes of your 60 reading the exercises. You should be able to get through at least 5 in 8 minutes. Then the kids can practice the clef during the week as well. I also have my students copy their major scales into tenor clef. It is amazing how much writing those scales helps them to become familiar with the clef. Good on you for not opting for the easy bass clef! Richard on 2/28/02 7:28 PM, Bruce Faske at brucefaske@sbcglobal.net scrambled the quantum eggs of the ever-expanding universe by writing: > Greetings fellow slidemen and slidewomen! > > After undergraduate study at a Texas university, I have relocated to a town > with one of the best junior college bands in the state, and I am currently > playing euphonium with the top band. We instituted a weekly one hour session > devoted to ensemble music (to help us learn to blend as a section, and for > variety - many of the players get tired with the band music). The problem > comes when we crack open a new piece, and more than one part is in tenor clef. > > We're faced with either playing bass-clef-only music, which isn't much of a > challenge, or trying to teach them tenor clef THROUGH the music. Beyond > spoonfeeding them and writing the parts out in bass clef myself, what can I > do? (After all, junior college IS college, and as a requirement for the top > band, the players must sign up for this ensemble class) Any suggestions on > selections, or clef teaching methods? > > Thanks for any help, > > Bruce > > > -- Dr. Richard Human Jr. richard@trombone.org Assistant Professor of Music Trombone and Music Theory Mississippi State University Office: (662) 325-2871 Founder, Webmaster and Publisher trombone.org: A web site for trombonists. http://www.trombone.org/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:49:02 -0500 From: Bruce Guttman To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: HELP!!! Message-ID: <200202282149_MC3-F3F1-E81D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message text written by INTERNET:brucefaske@sbcglobal.net >We're faced with either playing bass-clef-only music, which isn't much of a challenge, or trying to teach them tenor clef THROUGH the music. Beyond spoonfeeding them and writing the parts out in bass clef myself, what can I do?< Any of the Baritones read Treble clef? They already could read tenor (if you can convince them). Next choice is to get a book like Reginald Fink's "Introducing the Tenor Clef" and working out some of the exercises with the players. Also, look for some of the 5 trombone + Rhythm charts. They are all in bass clef (although the 1st part goes pretty high!). I think they are by MacDonald? Hope this helps Bruce Guttman Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band Section Leader, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:59:05 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: sctroy@erols.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: On the decline in popularity of the 88H Message-ID: <3C7EEE79.47CF4B0E@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Steve and list, I have to support you here, Steve. I have talked to several people who have tried _one_ Edwards instrument and deemed them unlikeable. WHAT?! There are just too many combinations to make such a gross generalization. I play an Edwards so I may be biased but I do choose my words carefully when I discuss Shires instruments. I have only tried a couple and I know they play well, I just haven't found the combination of variables that works to produce I sound that I want coming out of my bell...I can hardly wait until I do! :) Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra > I think the modular setups like Shires and Edwards are far too difficult to > evaluate by trying out one or two preassembled horns. But I constantly > hear "I tried an Edwards/Shires and it was wonderful/terrible/whatever." > > Steve Troy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:58:51 -0600 From: Bruce Faske To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: a side note to my HELP!!! dilemma... Message-ID: <002601c1c0cd$04608e70$2503fea9@Slaveone> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ifaruWV1gnTzzcPdIpn3Dg)" I was referring to the weekly TROMBONE ensemble...the fact that I play euph in the band is strictly background info! After all, most tuba/euph ensemble music is in bass clef....stupid me for not clarifying... Bruce ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:37:17 -0500 (EST) From: Eugene Grissom To: Subject: Rosolino photo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Trombone & related issues forum I have a photo of Frank Rosolino performing on field - perhaps early 70's? The band uniforms hae initials of S A S (or S A C??). the second S is partly concealed by the drummers hand - I would appreciae some identification. I have looked in ;the World Almanac ( colleges/ Universities) but no help here except the list of istitustions beginning with S's - so back to square A - Let me hear from someone (perhaps) who just might remember that Frank played at their football game at halftime - about 30 years ago ????? Gene Grissom - Professor Emeritus - Frank Rosolino Memorial Fund, Inc. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:16:34 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: HELP!!! Message-ID: <50.7576168.29b068b2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_50.7576168.29b068b2_boundary" brucefaske@sbcglobal.net writes: Ź << trying to teach them tenor clef THROUGH the music. Beyond spoonfeeding them and writing the parts out in bass clef myself, what can I do?>> The Ralph Sauer books are excellent: they might as well learn alto clef too while they are at it. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:23:01 +0100 From: Marius HelgŒ To: "'trombone-l@po.missouri.edu'" Subject: New slide Message-ID: <1C5C11BC642AD41199DA00508BA5451F011E3723@victoria.nb.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Are you sitting? good, now listen to this little story Two days before christmas, I wrecked the slide of my Holton TR-181 Bass trombone. My local repairman tried to fix it, but after a short conference with the insurance company, we decided to order a new slide. Noone had such a slide in stock in Norway, so we had to order it from the US. In the beginning of february, my repairman called me, the slide had finally arrived, and I could come and pick it up. The slide felt good, and I was satisfied. The satisfaction was even bigger when I found out how much the slide would cost me, and how much the insurance company had to pay. For me: 0,- NOK (Norwegian Kroner) For my wind band: 1000,- NOK For the insurance company: close to 20 000 NOK including shipping. For your comparision, one USD equals around 9 NOK The slide is far better than my old one ever was, so the luck was on my side this time. Marius HelgŒ Bass Trombone Mo Hornmusikk DIOC Big Band Mo Orkesterforening Producer Nordland Kretskorps ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:57:42 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: New slide Message-ID: <000201c1c120$ace07530$9401a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WOAH! A $2000 slide! Thatās crazy! -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Marius HelgŒ Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:23 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: New slide Are you sitting? good, now listen to this little story Two days before christmas, I wrecked the slide of my Holton TR-181 Bass trombone. My local repairman tried to fix it, but after a short conference with the insurance company, we decided to order a new slide. Noone had such a slide in stock in Norway, so we had to order it from the US. In the beginning of february, my repairman called me, the slide had finally arrived, and I could come and pick it up. The slide felt good, and I was satisfied. The satisfaction was even bigger when I found out how much the slide would cost me, and how much the insurance company had to pay. For me: 0,- NOK (Norwegian Kroner) For my wind band: 1000,- NOK For the insurance company: close to 20 000 NOK including shipping. For your comparision, one USD equals around 9 NOK The slide is far better than my old one ever was, so the luck was on my side this time. Marius HelgŒ Bass Trombone Mo Hornmusikk DIOC Big Band Mo Orkesterforening Producer Nordland Kretskorps ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:07:43 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New slide Message-ID: <010501c1c12a$bd9bb510$609bfc3e@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jon Moeller" > WOAH! A $2000 slide! This is Mo, Norway we are are talking about. Maybe Santa has increased his delivery charges. Mo money! Jingle all the way to the bank. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:38:02 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: New slide Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020301073647.00aa1270@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 09:23 AM 3/1/2002 +0100, Marius HelgŒ wrote: The satisfaction was even bigger when I found out how much the slide would cost me, and how much the insurance company had to pay. For me: 0,- NOK (Norwegian Kroner) For my wind band: 1000,- NOK For the insurance company: close to 20 000 NOK including shipping. For your comparision, one USD equals around 9 NOK So the total that the wind band and the insurance company paid was 21,000 NOK, or $2333.33US? That sounds incredibly expensive to me. What kind of trombone is it? Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APW251,PCSAT-1*:=3425.83N/10313.55W-PHG7150/WinAPRS 2.5.1 -EARL_CLOVIS -251-<630> Did you get a letter from Nigeria offering a "deal"? See http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ and http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:38:50 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: HELP!!! Message-ID: <01C1C0F4.22B49DE0.sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce, The problem that most people have in learning a new clef is that they really never learned how to read the first clef, not properly anyway. What do I mean? Beginners tend to figure out what they're supposed to do when they see that spot on the page, instead of learning the names of the notes. This habit is carried to some degree by most players for quite a long time. Some never get over it. When the new clef is introduced, they subconsciously try to play it by the same "figure out what the spot means" method. It took them years to be able to manage playing that way. And it will take them years to learn the new clef. They are typically poor sight readers as well. Spend several minutes at each meeting just saying the names of notes written on the black board (or flash cards or whatever...) in tenor clef. You randomly point from one note to another, much like practicing solfege in theory class. Mix in other clefs. You'll see that the students who have the most difficulty with the new clefs are also slow with whatever clef they supposedly know already. Push them to go faster and faster. If they practice diligently in this manner (no horn, just the music) on their own, it only takes a couple of days before you see real progress. This is also a very good way to teach sight reading, by the way; the daily saying of names of notes, counting rhythms, just naming everything on the page. Don't skip anything. Musical literacy is the key to good sight reading. It's as simple as that. Good sight readers just know what they're looking at. Steve Gamble Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Faske [SMTP:brucefaske@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:28 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: HELP!!! << File: ATT00002.htm >> Greetings fellow slidemen and slidewomen! After undergraduate study at a Texas university, I have relocated to a town with one of the best junior college bands in the state, and I am currently playing euphonium with the top band. We instituted a weekly one hour session devoted to ensemble music (to help us learn to blend as a section, and for variety - many of the players get tired with the band music). The problem comes when we crack open a new piece, and more than one part is in tenor clef. We're faced with either playing bass-clef-only music, which isn't much of a challenge, or trying to teach them tenor clef THROUGH the music. Beyond spoonfeeding them and writing the parts out in bass clef myself, what can I do? (After all, junior college IS college, and as a requirement for the top band, the players must sign up for this ensemble class) Any suggestions on selections, or clef teaching methods? Thanks for any help, Bruce ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:43:43 +0100 From: Marius HelgŒ To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: New slide Message-ID: <1C5C11BC642AD41199DA00508BA5451F011E372B@victoria.nb.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >For me: 0,- NOK (Norwegian Kroner) > >For my wind band: 1000,- NOK > >For the insurance company: close to 20 000 NOK including shipping. > >For your comparision, one USD equals around 9 NOK > > So the total that the wind band and the insurance > company paid was > 21,000 NOK, or $2333.33US? That sounds incredibly expensive > to me. What > kind of trombone is it? no, 20000 NOK to Holton and the transport company, 1000 NOK from Mo Hornmusikk to the insurance company. 3500 NOK + VAT (24%) of the 20000 NOK was for the tansport, the rest for the slide. as i said, this was a Holton TR-181. These go for around 25000 NOK brand new here. Marius ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:13:50 EST From: REOnofreyJ@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: HELP!!! Message-ID: <6a.1bf6394e.29b0f4ae@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_6a.1bf6394e.29b0f4ae_boundary" Bruce, I had the same problem in college in a wind ensemble. ŹI could read bass and treble clefs, but was presented with several pieces of music in tenor clef. ŹMy solution? ŹI studied very hard learning the clef -- no books, no horn -- just learned the notes on the staff. ŹThen, once I picked up the horn, it was relatively easy. Ź Of course, since then, I've only seen bass and treble clef music, so would have to start from square one again. Good luck, Rick Onofrey ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:21:40 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Horn parts prices (was "New slide") Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020301101549.00b34220@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 07:38 AM 3/1/2002 -0700, Earl Needham wrote: At 09:23 AM 3/1/2002 +0100, Marius HelgŒ wrote: The satisfaction was even bigger when I found out how much the slide would cost me, and how much the insurance company had to pay. For me: 0,- NOK (Norwegian Kroner) For my wind band: 1000,- NOK For the insurance company: close to 20 000 NOK including shipping. For your comparision, one USD equals around 9 NOK So the total that the wind band and the insurance company paid was 21,000 NOK, or $2333.33US? That sounds incredibly expensive to me. What kind of trombone is it? Earl I don't know about Holton, but some of these companies really rip you off when you go for replacement parts. I'll bet UMI would charge over $1000 for a slide if you ordered it. I recently needed to buy the receiver pair used on a Bach 42 (the fittings that lock the slide to the bell section). From Selmer these two little parts were over $150. I should have been smart and bought the same part from Allied (Getzen). I think it would have been under $100 from them. The real kicker on the Selmer thing is that they sent the slide half of the receiver pair. They said they have to make some more of the bell side. It has been almost a month now. Excuse me, that bell side part is exactly the same thing that goes on new Bach 42s. Are they saying they haven't built any horns for a month? Grrrrrr. Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:38:10 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Horn parts prices (was "New slide") Message-ID: <3C7F9253.28B77654@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig Parmerlee wrote: > The real kicker on the Selmer thing is that they sent the slide half of the > receiver pair. They said they have to make some more of the bell side. It > has been almost a month now. Excuse me, that bell side part is exactly the > same thing that goes on new Bach 42s. Are they saying they haven't built > any horns for a month? Craig, That's probably true. They usually tool up and make all of one model for the year at one time. Sometimes you order something for a 42 or 50 and they are in the middle of making all the student horns. You end up waiting for a few months until they start making 42s again. And yes, the prices are ridiculous. There's no way one of those receivers should cost $70-80, but they do. What are you going to do, buy a new horn? That's just what they want you to do. By the way, on that receiver. Most of the time you can get by with replacing one side or the other, and not have to do both. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:40:04 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Horn parts prices (was "New slide") Message-ID: <01C1C0FC.B0C9EEC0.sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They probably haven't built any new 42's in a month. Bach doesn't seem to keep anything in the warehouse any more. They wait until they have a pile of orders. That's why when your favorite store is out of a Bach mouthpiece or something, it can take six months to restock. This is what I've been told, anyway. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Steve Gamble Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 x118 (520) 792-9314 fax sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org -----Original Message----- From: Craig Parmerlee [SMTP:craig@acticalc.com] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:22 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Horn parts prices (was "New slide") At 07:38 AM 3/1/2002 -0700, Earl Needham wrote: >At 09:23 AM 3/1/2002 +0100, Marius Helga wrote: >> >>The satisfaction was even bigger when I found out how much the slide would >>cost me, and how much the insurance company had to pay. >> >>For me: 0,- NOK (Norwegian Kroner) >>For my wind band: 1000,- NOK >>For the insurance company: close to 20 000 NOK including shipping. >>For your comparision, one USD equals around 9 NOK > > So the total that the wind band and the insurance company paid > was 21,000 NOK, or $2333.33US? That sounds incredibly expensive to > me. What kind of trombone is it? > > Earl I don't know about Holton, but some of these companies really rip you off when you go for replacement parts. I'll bet UMI would charge over $1000 for a slide if you ordered it. I recently needed to buy the receiver pair used on a Bach 42 (the fittings that lock the slide to the bell section). From Selmer these two little parts were over $150. I should have been smart and bought the same part from Allied (Getzen). I think it would have been under $100 from them. The real kicker on the Selmer thing is that they sent the slide half of the receiver pair. They said they have to make some more of the bell side. It has been almost a month now. Excuse me, that bell side part is exactly the same thing that goes on new Bach 42s. Are they saying they haven't built any horns for a month? Grrrrrr. Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:08:35 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: alto horn mouthpiece Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As many of you know, Iāve got lots of trombones·lots. And I got a mouthpiece or two with almost every one I bought. So last night I looked through my mouthpiece collection and found that the alto sounds pretty good with a Bach 12C, of which I had three. Now one of those Bach 12Cs has been cut down to fit my alto. And surprisingly, the horn is in pretty good tune, with itself and with the tuner, even though the mouthpiece is a bit longer than the alto mouthpiece that came with the horn. So now Iām wondering if the anti-node for a brass instrument is at the aperture, rather than at your lips. I do understand that the horn no longer sounds like an alto ćshould soundä, but it sounds good to me. So thank you all for your input. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2315--