TROMBONE-L Digest 2311 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) the merits in striving for excellence by Bear Woodson 2) Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. by "Adrian Drover" 3) Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. by "Aaron Roth" 4) Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. by Chris Waage 5) Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" 6) Beer Joke.....not trombone related but I kinda made it so! by "Richard Johnson" 7) Bach 50 2nd trigger? by "R.A. Bates" 8) Re: Bach 50 2nd trigger? by Eric & Candice Swanson 9) by "Tom Izzo" 10) Re: by "Daniel Pliskin" 11) Tutti'e Trombones arranger by Sharman King 12) Re: by "Joe L. Norcross" 13) RE: by "Tom Izzo" 14) RE: by "Aaron Roth" 15) Info needed by Tony 16) RE: Info needed by "Jon Moeller" 17) Re: Please continue to keep it polite. by Bruce Guttman 18) Fwd: Tutti'e Trombones arranger by JFBermann@aol.com 19) edwards tenor trombone bell by Bruce Faske 20) Re: by "Gary D. Maxwell" 21) Online Trombone Journal Classifieds Update by Chris Waage 22) St. Louis Symphony by Walter Barrett 23) RE: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 24) Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. by Gabriel Langfur 25) Re: Eddie Bert by Walter Barrett ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:05:06 -0700 From: Bear Woodson To: Trombone List Cc: "Mr. Adrian Drover" Subject: the merits in striving for excellence Message-ID: <3C792B52.B035F87@cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > "Bear Woodson" wrote: > > > > Most violinists talk about the 3 Fugues and > > Chaconne from the 6 Sonatas and Partitas for Un- > > accompanied Violin by J.S. Bach, BUT most vio- > > linists just can't cut it themselves. No one has dared > > play my "Sonata for Unaccompanied Violin" (July > > 1994, 4 mvts., 25 min.), in public for the same > > reasons. (This is the work that has the 4-Voiced > > Fugue as its 2nd Movement, and has transcriptions > > for Viola and Cello of the entire sonata.) > Adrian Drover wrote: > > With all due respect, I cannot see any point in writing > music that is either impossible, or so difficult to play > that no soloist would bother to spend the time and > effort to polish it to performance standard. Your 25 > minute sonata, which must have taken many hours of > toil to create, has been lying on a shelf gathering dust > for 8 years. I'm not sure if I understand your point of view. I write via inspiration, filtered through years of training. There were NO musicians in my immediate family. I grew up planning to either be a medical doctor, or go into some field of biological research, ergo I think like a scientist. Classical Music grabbed me out of no-where, as I was preparing to go to college, and I started "hearing" symphonic works in my imagination in my last year of high school. I ravenously studied 20th Century Harmony and Counterpoint once I got to college. I was well trained and haven't needed to compose at a piano in 25 years. I never liked, nor used 12-Tone, but I have also never used a Key Signature in my music. (I use Quartal and Modal Centers in my music, but they change "key" often every few beats. So to use actual Key Signatures, and then change them so often, would cause a lot of confusion. It's easier to just use Individual Chromatics all the time.) If you are saying that Music that is both well crafted and Virtuoso Level is not worth it, then I mourn for you. They are hundreds of inspiring masterpieces of Counter- point and Virtuosity in the last few hundred years that you will never be able to appreciate. If you are merely saying that Virtuoso Works don't get a lot of performances, well, duh, I think I knew that already. Like I said, MANY people, who play NO Instru- ment, or something other than Violin, still know and love the recordings by Virtuosi of the J.S. Bach 6 Sonatas and Partitas for Unaccompanied Violin. Genius becomes a monument in history, and inspires others to strive for the same. Yes, I am very much aware of the fact, that the biggest Money Makers in Music History, are moronic 3-Chord-Wonder pieces, that the Music-Theory-Illiterate Public finds impressive, while still being able to follow. I may well have to write some such pieces, to pay the bills. But I still do not think it's a mistake to strive to emulate the Great Masters, who got to their station in history, by emulating the Great Masters before them. If my music is judged by history to be Hack Music, then so be it; but at least I tried. I would find it to be disappointing if you don't see the merits in striving for excellence. > The only way you will ever hear it is either in your > own mind or by typing it into a music setting > program or sequencer, and who on earth would want > to hear it played by a soleless computer? However > much you are devoted to your art, you need to earn a > living. Your dust laden sonata is not making a penny > in royalties. I "hear" all my works in my imagination, long before I write them down. Some I write quickly, as if taking Dictation from a Higher Power. Some of the more com- plex contrapuntal works require study and re-writing, but the blunt truth is, I spend almost No Time Rewriting anything for Compositional Reasons, for years. I DO, however, spend a great many more times than the Com- position Time, Re-editing Page Layouts, and all these nit-picky Neatness issues, that Publishers worry about. (I publish and distribute all my own scores.) > Above all, I'm sure that every composer needs > performer and audience feed back to make his/her > efforts worth while. Actually my "Sonata for Unaccompanied Violin" (July 1994, 4 mvts., 25 min.), was first composed for Viola and THEN was transcribed by me, for Violin and Cello. In over 250 years of the J.S. Bach 6 Sonatas and Partitas for Unaccompanied Violin, NO ONE until re- cently, has succeeded in playing ALL of these move- ments on VIOLA. Most of the Movements are linear, but the 3 Fugues and Chaconne have a lot of chords. In the last few years I have become E-Mail Friends with Messrs. Alex Deych and Scott Slapin, who have both recorded the Complete J.S. Bach 6 Sonatas and Partitas for Unaccompanied Violin on Viola! The for- mer has not been able to afford to have his set mass- printed, but he sent me a copy of his privately copied 2-CD Set, while the Slapin 2-CD Set is available through Borders Stores. Both are poetic and impres- sive performances! I encourage all of you to seek out these inspiring CD's! Both of these men, and a few other violists, have practiced my "Sonata for Unaccompanied Viola" many times. It may be long after my death for this, and other virtuoso works of mine to get public performances or CD's, nevertheless, I don't regret having written them, and have no plans to erase them. (Besides, there is al- ready one fugally-challenged composer out there, who really is trying to erase my career, and he is now being raked over the legal coals by the US Federal Govern- ment.) However I also believe in the Hindemith Concept of Practicality, and whereas I've never written works for Student Wind Band, the idea intrigues me. The music doesn't have to be poorly written, just because it's written to be easier to play. We'll see. Meanwhile, I have a new work, "Suite for Two Bas- soons" (Jan. 2002, 5 mvts., 18 min.), which I have al- ready transposed up to Bb for either a pair of Bass Clarinets or Bb Soprano Clarinets. Both the Bassoon and Clarinet Versions are doing well. Right now Dr. Dyess is swamped for the next week or so, (Does that guy ever sleep, or what?), but once he'd had the time to really play through it, it might work, as is, on 2 Tenor Trombones, or may have to be lowered a Major Second. We'll see. But no, I didn't write the new "Duo Suite" to be deliberately difficult to play, but then Bassoonists might disagree with that. (If I'm never heard from again, the Paranoids from the Quackatorium may have finally GOTTEN me!) Oh, well. Bear Woodson Fat Fuzz-Faced Theory Geek and Composer in Tucson, Arizona, USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:45:47 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. Message-ID: <003601c1bd63$96dc5a80$4894fc3e@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Aaron Roth" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arguments regarding the need to make satisfactory income notwithstanding, I wish to disagree with the pointlessness of writing extremely difficult music. Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto was reputedly unplayable for a while until a virtuoso with sufficient skill and dedication set to work on it. Unless a piece contains passages actually not executable on the instrument (like, say, a five-part double-stop tone cluster on the violin), if the composer is in fact writing at the edge of the modern player's skill level, someday someone will play that piece and play it expertly, just as teenagers have now played the Tchaikovsky with astounding display of achievement. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but would it not make more sense to find the performer who is willing to spend the time perfecting your composition and an orchestra that is willing to present it to an audience, before even contemplating writing such a piece? That way, you may be able to collect your royalties while you're still alive. BTW, wouldn't a "five-part double-stop" be called a "quintuple stop", not that it matters too much on a 4-string violin..... unless one of the chord notes is an artificial harmonic and the G string is stopped with the thumb? Nah, it couldn't be done.... could it? Anyone here got a violin to try it on? I wanna put it in my new concerto. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:08:05 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yes, but would it not make more sense to find the performer who is willing to spend the time perfecting your composition and an orchestra that is willing to present it to an audience, before even contemplating writing such a piece? That way, you may be able to collect your royalties while you're still alive. BTW, wouldn't a "five-part double-stop" be called a "quintuple stop", not that it matters too much on a 4-string violin..... unless one of the chord notes is an artificial harmonic and the G string is stopped with the thumb? Nah, it couldn't be done.... could it? Anyone here got a violin to try it on? I wanna put it in my new concerto. A. Okay, I give. :) If the artistic impulse will allow for it, it is indeed better to have music that is immediately playable. The discussion of the "artistic impulse" is one I don't want to start so I'll let that go there. As for the violin stops, well, I was accidentally using the lingo of the local student string players, "double-stop" for all such multi-note sound-events on strings. "Five-part double-stop" should be read "quintuple-stop". :) If one plays an artificial harmonic slightly inaccurately, sometimes two pitches will emanate weakly from the string, but usually only briefly. That reminds me: someone should design a prototype violin bridge optimized for multi-stops (or poly-stops?); if the bridge had somewhat less curvature along the top, one could sustain triple- and quadruple-stops. While they're at it, someone should make a trombone with two leadpipes going into the same bore to make the Xenakis multiphonics easier.... -Aaron R. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:56:27 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Yes, but would it not make more sense to find the performer who is willing to spend the time perfecting your composition and an orchestra that is willing to present it to an audience, before even contemplating writing such a piece? That way, you may be able to collect your royalties while you're still alive. BTW, wouldn't a "five-part double-stop" be called a "quintuple stop", not that it matters too much on a 4-string violin..... unless one of the chord notes is an artificial harmonic and the G string is stopped with the thumb? Nah, it couldn't be done.... could it? Anyone here got a violin to try it on? I wanna put it in my new concerto. A. Okay, I give. :) If the artistic impulse will allow for it, it is indeed better to have music that is immediately playable. The discussion of the "artistic impulse" is one I don't want to start so I'll let that go there. As for the violin stops, well, I was accidentally using the lingo of the local student string players, "double-stop" for all such multi-note sound-events on strings. "Five-part double-stop" should be read "quintuple-stop". :) If one plays an artificial harmonic slightly inaccurately, sometimes two pitches will emanate weakly from the string, but usually only briefly. That reminds me: someone should design a prototype violin bridge optimized for multi-stops (or poly-stops?); if the bridge had somewhat less curvature along the top, one could sustain triple- and quadruple-stops. While they're at it, someone should make a trombone with two leadpipes going into the same bore to make the Xenakis multiphonics easier.... -Aaron R. Perhaps we could call the new genre "MFMTSOMWGMTA" Music For Musicians To Show Other Musicians What Great Musicians They Are. To me (waiving a RED FLAG to say "It's My Opinion"), music is a tool with which we communicate to others. Be it simply to state "Gee, I should have practiced a little more." or to convey the deepest emotions of the human spirit, the sounds created by a musician with his or her instrument of choice should reach the target audience. There is a class of music that is constantly on the fringes that merely justifies itself by saying, "Yeah, you just don't get it." OK. Maybe I don't. I can still remember the first time I listened to Oliver Messian's "Quartet for the End of Time." My initial reaction? I hated it. Then I stopped and asked myself WHY I hated it. I didn't have a good answer, and I kept pondering the question while re-listening to the recording. It finally hit me that I didn't like it because it wasn't what I was used to hearing. My musical diet leans towards Romanticism and Impressionism, and listening to the tortured music that Messian composed while facing death minute-by-minute in a concentration camp shook me. Do the individual parts challenge the performer? Yes. Do they challenge the listener? Most definitely. Did the composer set out to merely write music to overwhelm the instrumentalist, to "raise the bar" of performing ability? I doubt it. However, when you go back a bit further (and yes, I'm drawing from memory, not research) to the Pagannini Caprices, he was accused of being in league with the Devil because no-one else could perform them. Today, while still incredibly challenging, they are performed. Is this circular logic? Not in the least. While Pagannini wrote incredibly challenging music, it was still _music_. It wasn't written merely to prove how fast or high he could play, but to showcase his abilities. Musicians will constantly challenge themselves (and each other) to greater abilities. Stringing notes together into a piece that is both nearly impossible to play and doesn't draw a listener is self-delusional. "Look what a great composer I am!" Why, because no-one can play it? Well, if no-one can play it, how can you tell it's a great composition? Strikes me that this could be the compositional style of the court composer for the monarch in "The Emperor's New Clothes." Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:01:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Aaron Roth wrote: > As for the violin stops, well, I was accidentally using the lingo of the > local student string players, "double-stop" for all such multi-note > sound-events on strings. "Five-part double-stop" should be read > "quintuple-stop". :) If one plays an artificial harmonic slightly > inaccurately, sometimes two pitches will emanate weakly from the string, but You could always whip out a viola d'amore or a tromba marina if you want more noise at one time than you have fingers to play strings. > quadruple-stops. While they're at it, someone should make a trombone with > two leadpipes going into the same bore to make the Xenakis multiphonics > easier.... Sudrephone. Combining the concept of saxhorn and kazoo on one lip-vibrated aerophone. I don't know if Sudre also made a sudre-bone but it's a scary thought. What vibrated was a section of "gold beater's membrane." Carole ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:54:47 -0600 From: "Richard Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Beer Joke.....not trombone related but I kinda made it so! Message-ID: <000701c1bd8e$a3f606a0$ab7aa6ac@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beer Joke After the Great Britain Beer Festival, in London, all the brewery presidents decided to go out for a beer. The guy from Corona sits down and says, "Hey Senor, I would like the world's best beer, a Corona." The bartender, a professional trombonist, dusts off a bottle from the shelf and gives it to him. The guy from Budweiser says, "I'd like the best beer in the world, give me 'The King Of Beers', a Budweiser." The bartender gives him one. The guy from Coors says, "I'd like the only beer made with Rocky Mountain spring water, give me a Coors." He gets it. The guy from Guinness sits down and says, "Give me a Coke." The bartender is a little taken aback, but gives him what he ordered. The other brewery presidents look over at him and ask "Why aren't you drinking a Guinness?" and the Guinness president replies, "Well, I figured if you guys aren't drinking beer, neither would I." **************************************************************************** ** Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr. "The Untouchables" Jazz Ensemble Shreveport Metropolitan Concert Band ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, , "There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore." J. J. Johnson **************************************************************************** ***** I'm not satisfied with anything about my playing. I know what I want. I can hear it; but it will take time and study to get it" -Sonny Rollins (1956) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:07:33 -0500 From: "R.A. Bates" To: "Trom Bone List" Subject: Bach 50 2nd trigger? Message-ID: <005e01c1bd90$6cb5f950$4defd018@bates> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01C1BD66.8371ED40" I have a Bach 50 t3 and a small hand. I understand that a repairman can bend the 2ndÊtrigger to make it more accessable.My repairman suggests replacing the trigger with a diffrent one. I like the adjustable one on the Yamaha ysl 622. Are these parts easy to get? Any other suggestions? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:53:10 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bach 50 2nd trigger? Message-ID: <3C797CE5.8A10D1@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "R.A. Bates" wrote: > I have a Bach 50 t3 and a small hand. I understand that a repairman > can bend the 2nd trigger to make it more accessable.My repairman > suggests replacing the trigger with a diffrent one. I like the > adjustable one on the Yamaha ysl 622. Are these parts easy to get? > Any other suggestions? Bend it. Take it off the horn to bend it though, it'll be hard to bend and you don't want to break the saddle off. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:58:36 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, After almost two months of computer woes, plus Holidays & traveling, I'm FINALLY back on Trombone-L. How are you? Tom ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:13:27 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Tom, You mean you only have ONE computer? DanP From: "Tom Izzo" Reply-To: jeanvaljean@ntsource.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:58:36 -0600 Hi all, After almost two months of computer woes, plus Holidays & traveling, I'm FINALLY back on Trombone-L. How are you? Tom _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:46:58 -0800 From: Sharman King To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Tutti'e Trombones arranger Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020224174658.0079f8e0@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm a digest subscriber, so I'm not always up to date when I see posts to the list. However, I'm replying to the thread concerning "Four Brothers" and Tutti's Trombones. Like many of our other older trombone players, I've been a fan of Tutti's Trombones for decades. I believe the arranger is Warren Baker, with the following justification: A few years ago I ripped the "Lassus Trombones" arrangements from "Tutti's Trombones" for our trombone quartet. (It wasn't the greatest rip in the world, because Tutti's had six more trombones plus piano, bass and drums!) We played it at a music edjucators' event. It was a social at the end of the day, and the edjucators were acting like trombone players in their imbibing. After we played "Lassus" and older gentleman headed across the floor toward us. Before I could start the next tune to ward off the inevitable "Melancholy Baby" conversataion the gentleman said, "Thank you for playing my arrangement." "Sure!" I thought. "And I'm Monica Lewinsky!" Instead, I said, "Are you Tutti Cameratta?" to which he replied, "No, I'm Warren Barker." We had a wonderful conversation, and it's one of the high points of our lives for all four of us. Warren Barker wrote the arrangements, without credit and he's very proud of the album to this day. I'm sure the players are proud of it, as well. I've heard stories of how loud it was in that studio with all those deserved egos, and I'd love to have been there for the scales in "Twelfth Street Rag." Anyway, there's a bit of trivia for our discussion group. Sharman King in Vancouver Canada ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:28:30 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Message-ID: <002f01c1bd9b$bcdc0180$a3ddaec7@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glad to see you back Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds Bass Trombone: Clovis CA Community Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg CA City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:58 PM > > > Hi all, > > After almost two months of computer woes, plus Holidays & traveling, I'm > FINALLY back on Trombone-L. > > How are you? > > Tom > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:35:25 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom, You mean you only have ONE computer? LOL, no DAn, I have 4. But I like this one best (only oneconnected to the internet), because it has 2 Dependant valves LOL Tom (nice to be back) DanP >From: "Tom Izzo" >Reply-To: jeanvaljean@ntsource.com >To: "Trombones and related issues forum." >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:58:36 -0600 > > > >Hi all, > >After almost two months of computer woes, plus Holidays & traveling, I'm >FINALLY back on Trombone-L. > >How are you? > >Tom > _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:48:16 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Tom, I still owe you a Bass Quintet. Dag-nabbit!! I have to spend so much time working on music to be performed here that I never have quite finished the score's Finale inputting. It'll get there someday. Anyhow, good to see you back, and to let you know, I've been inspired to start saving up for a contrabass trombone so that I can get working in earnest on compounding the family's solo repertoire. -Aaron R. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:10:51 -0800 From: Tony To: Pete and Megumi Link , Dick Akright , Greg Bergantz , Cc: Tuba List , Trombone List Subject: Info needed Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm looking for trombone quartet music, or other quartet music that might work with multiple euphoniums. The upper part should not go above about high Ab, nor should the lowest part go below pedal Bb. Any suggestions?? Tony Clements ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:11:58 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Info needed Message-ID: <000001c1bdaa$3606a660$9401a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out some of Michael Davis' stuff at http://www.hip-bonemusic.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 8:11 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Info needed I'm looking for trombone quartet music, or other quartet music that might work with multiple euphoniums. The upper part should not go above about high Ab, nor should the lowest part go below pedal Bb. Any suggestions?? Tony Clements ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:37:12 -0500 From: Bruce Guttman To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Please continue to keep it polite. Message-ID: <200202242237_MC3-F34E-BA64@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bear: I don't think anybody here wants to take a composer to task for writing something hard. What we want to ask for is that the composer take into account some mechanical aspects of trombone. Playing a 1 octave gliss requires us to "fake" it. There is no way to move the slide 12 positions, since we don't have 12 positions! Also, glisses that cannot be played on one partial require the same "fake". A simple check of the fingering chart for trombone can show what glisses are possible. Players with F-attachments and Gb attachments can do additional glisses. But don't expect the 1st or 2nd trombone to have a Gb attachment. Asking for mute manipulation in the trigger range is very difficult, if not impossible. Maybe we need to work on technology to allow it (like the plunger on a stick idea). I know that sometimes the arrangement (voicing) calls for it, but a grupetto between two identical notes is sometimes hard to figure out. All the other guys are going from one note to another and one poor soul has to figure out how to keep it the same. By all means, challenge us to play. Give us odd jumps, rapid-fire runs, multiphonics, mutes, etc. We won't progress as a group without some kind of challenge. Just don't ask for the truly impossible. Bruce Guttman Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band Section Leader, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:14:04 EST From: JFBermann@aol.com To: sharman@istar.ca, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Tutti'e Trombones arranger Message-ID: <120.bdc464e.29ab140c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_120.bdc464e.29ab140c_boundary" For a tremendous quartet arrangement and performance check out Mike Suter's rendition! Jim Bermann Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd04.mail.aol.com (v83.35) with ESMTP id MAILINZD46-0224202952; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:29:52 -0500 Received: from po.missouri.edu (po.missouri.edu [128.206.12.137]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (v83.35) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINZD12-0224202943; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:29:43 -0500 Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by po.missouri.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1P1TgF23022; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:29:42 -0600 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by po.missouri.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1P1TNF22942 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:29:23 -0600 Received: from ip218.ontario02.as5800.psi.ca ([154.11.81.218] helo=toshiba) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 16f9yD-0005RP-00 for trombone-l@po.missouri.edu; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:30:25 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020224174658.0079f8e0@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:46:58 -0800 Reply-To: sharman@istar.ca Sender: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sharman King To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Tutti'e Trombones arranger Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu X-Sender: sharman@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN I'm a digest subscriber, so I'm not always up to date when I see posts to the list. However, I'm replying to the thread concerning "Four Brothers" and Tutti's Trombones. Like many of our other older trombone players, I've been a fan of Tutti's Trombones for decades. I believe the arranger is Warren Baker, with the following justification: A few years ago I ripped the "Lassus Trombones" arrangements from "Tutti's Trombones" for our trombone quartet. (It wasn't the greatest rip in the world, because Tutti's had six more trombones plus piano, bass and drums!) We played it at a music edjucators' event. It was a social at the end of the day, and the edjucators were acting like trombone players in their imbibing. After we played "Lassus" and older gentleman headed across the floor toward us. Before I could start the next tune to ward off the inevitable "Melancholy Baby" conversataion the gentleman said, "Thank you for playing my arrangement." "Sure!" I thought. "And I'm Monica Lewinsky!" Instead, I said, "Are you Tutti Cameratta?" to which he replied, "No, I'm Warren Barker." We had a wonderful conversation, and it's one of the high points of our lives for all four of us. Warren Barker wrote the arrangements, without credit and he's very proud of the album to this day. I'm sure the players are proud of it, as well. I've heard stories of how loud it was in that studio with all those deserved egos, and I'd love to have been there for the scales in "Twelfth Street Rag." Anyway, there's a bit of trivia for our discussion group. Sharman King in Vancouver Canada ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:15:00 -0600 From: Bruce Faske To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: edwards tenor trombone bell Message-ID: <000d01c1bdbb$60194f50$2503fea9@Slaveone> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_umQgXyVovQsxVer3wgnUjA)" Hey everybody, I just got back from the Texas Music Educators Assn. convention in San Antonio, and much to my dismay, the Edwards product line has gone up up up since I bought my horn several years ago. I was looking for a yellow brass bell that couldÊhandle moreÊvolume than the rose bell I have right now, but for $525 bucks brand new, I'd rather buy a used bell if it's inÊgoodÊcondition. Can somebody please help???? Bruce ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:03:44 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Message-ID: <001001c1bdca$920f3c40$5e525d3f@garymaxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome Back Tom! You really haven't missed much. We're still discussin' the best shoulda, coulda, wouldas. Glad to "hear" your voice again. All the best, Gary Maxwell ================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:58 PM > > > Hi all, > > After almost two months of computer woes, plus Holidays & traveling, I'm > FINALLY back on Trombone-L. > > How are you? > > Tom > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:15:25 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L , Brass@lists.fsu.edu Subject: Online Trombone Journal Classifieds Update Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 7:05 AM on February 25, 2001 with 38 new ads. - - - - - Thank you for using the OTJ Classifieds! - - - - - OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp OTJ Gift Shoppe: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=trombones If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage, Associate Webmaster chris@trombone.org http://www.trombone.org - A web site for trombonists ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:49:45 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: Subject: St. Louis Symphony Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I thought folks might find this of interest, with some of the recent discussions of financial troubles for orchestras. Players Join Managers to Save the St. Louis Symphony Faced with a severe financial crisis, the management team and musicians of the St. Louis Symphony have joined forces for an ambitious fund-raising campaign. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/25/arts/music/25LOUI.html?todaysheadlines -- Walter Barrett "The basic difference between classical music and jazz is that in the former the music is always greater than its performance." -Andre Previn Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:20:59 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E7124A17@marshall.jmls.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bear Woodson wrote: > When I start a new virtuoso work for another instru- > ment, I work closely with a soloist of that instrument, > and too often the resulting work is described as "solidly > playable", but often exceeds the skills of most players. snip > But > how are you guys doing at virtuosity on your instruments? > Hmmm??? Are all of you tossing off the concerted works > of Zwilich, Creston, Rouse and Dr. George Walker? > One thing I have always wondered is why todays composers insist on writing music so much music that exceeds the skills of most players. Did Bach write music that to this day gives virtuosos fits? He also wrote reams of music that more ordinary perfomers can and do bring off nicely. Are there fine violinist today who speak reverently of Bach's unaccompanied partitas but can't play them well enough to perform them publicly? They only do so because they first became familiar with his more manageable music. After all, Bach also harmonized simple four part chorales that are still being sung all over the world by church congregations--people completely untrained in music. If Zwillich, Creston, Rouse, Walker, et al had written lots of music (for whatever instrument) that the average college teacher could bring off successfully on a faculty recital, people would be playing it. And then, if there were other pieces besides that were "solidly playable" but much more difficult, everyone who knew and loved the other pieces would talk about the harder ones with suitable reverence. There is another consideration, too. Bach's most difficult music is intrinsically rewarding enough to be worth the effort. Is Creston in the same league? Or is it a piece that is not only unreasonably difficult to play, but also one that will not sustain the interest of the audience? I understand that when John Swallow commissioned Gunther Schuller's Eine Kleine Posaunenmusik, he asked that it not contain notes higher than d", and that the highest note he could possibly play was f", yet the piece has multiple f"-sharps! Schuller is lucky he got paid for the piece and had it performed at all. If composers want their stuff widely performed, they should look not only to virtuosos, but also good college students. Mendelssohn consulted with Ferdinand David and came up with one of the first "adult" violin concertos that violinists learn to play. But it's good enough music that, even being over-represented on junior recitals, virtuosos can still play it and give it special sparkle. Why can't we have a trombone concerto or two like that? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloging Librarian The John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:34:46 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Composers & Performers knowing their craft. Message-ID: <20020225153446.17534.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bear Woodson wrote: > With all do respect, we need a little balance here. > I'm > days behind in reading, storing and answering my E-Mails, > so today I spent a few hours reading all the kvetching on > the Trombone List from the last few days, about composers > who don't know every detail about every instrument. I'm > sure that for all my struggles, I will never know > everything > about any one instrument, and certainly not all of them. > But > how are you guys doing at virtuosity on your instruments? > Hmmm??? Are all of you tossing off the concerted works > of Zwilich, Creston, Rouse and Dr. George Walker? Bear, I don't know how to put this delicately, so I'll just be blunt. I've never heard any of your music, so I have no idea if it's good or not. I'm willing to believe you that you're highly skilled, and that your music is worth playing, and I will listen with an open mind when I hear some. You have, however, managed to completely miss the point of the initial question. The use of a plunger in the valve register is not a virtuoso issue, it's a human body issue. You wouldn't write a double-stop for a cello with two notes four octaves apart, neither of which is on an open string. There are no 3-armed cellists, and likewise no 3-armed trombonists. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:40:29 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Eddie Bert Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 2/22/02 7:03 PM, Richard Johnson expounded thusly... > Tribute to Legendary Trombonist Eddie Bert > > Celebrating His 80th Birthday Oh man, Eddie is one of the sweetest guys around, and really funny, too! One time, I was playing steady with a big band for these Friday night dances, and Eddie would sub once in a while. One time, he goes out in front of the band to take a few choruses, and on his way up front, he slipped an adapter between his horn and his mouthpiece that held the mpce. at a right angle! He starts playing, and from the back, all you can see is the slide going out to the right, and the horn held sideways in front of Eddie's face! The whole band was rolling on the floor, and when Eddie sits back down, he says with his patented deadpan expression "What's so funny?" Another time, we were playing with a rehearsal band, and the leader would wave around his tuner, and tell you if you were sharp or flat. He gets to Eddie, who plays a couple of bars of jazz, taking care to avoid playing in first position. The leader says "How can you tune up like that?", and Eddie gives him the deadpan look, and tells him "I tune to what's going on, and there ain't nothing going on." That was the last time we saw the tuner... ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2311--