TROMBONE-L Digest 2308 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: let's take a vote by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 2) RE: let's take a vote by Craig Parmerlee 3) FW: Eastern Trombone Workshop by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 4) RE: let's take a vote by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 5) Re: let's take a vote by "J L Jensen" 6) greetings/for sale by BITEensemble@aol.com 7) Thanks for dual bore slide responses by BassBonist@aol.com 8) Re: let's take a vote by James Scott 9) Re: mouthpiece materials (glass mouthpiece) by James Gicking 10) Re: let's take a vote by Craig Parmerlee 11) Re: let's take a vote by "Aaron Roth" 12) Re: let's take a vote by "Adrian Drover" 13) Re: let's take a vote by "Adrian Drover" 14) Rochester Trombone Circus 2002 by silversonic@att.net 15) RE: let's take a vote by "Steve Cordingley" 16) Re: let's take a vote by Gabriel Langfur ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:20:47 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: sarapete@sympatico.ca, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: let's take a vote Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F89E@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1BB04.7B8C7370" Neither. That is, neither have him fix the music nor figure a mechanical way to do plunger work. How hard is it to sound like a plunger on an unmuted horn? 7th grade beginners do it every day. True, you won't sound like Alessi playing with a plunger, but you probably will sound like a plungered trombone. The composer had something in mind when he/she wrote that part. He failed to know the mechanical idiosyncracies of one particular instrument, i.e. that some trombone notes can be plunged and others cannot, but he had a sound in his head he was trying to get out. Let's not tell him he was stupid, let's try to find that sound. (Then tell him he was stupid - noh, don't bother, he'll either notice if it sounds bad or not notice, there's nothing you can do about either). By all means, explain the difficulty to him tactfully, and show him your best effort to get that tone, and see if it is close enough. Orchestral trombonists are so used to striving for that ringing Alessi tone they forget the trombone can have plenty of variety, as some of us demonstrate daily.Ê Sorry for using Alessi as the example, fill in your own preference, I happened to notice he'll be at ETW in three weeks. How to do it? Shoot, I dunno, come sit in at rehearsal with me, I betcha I blow at least one note like that by accident, you can stop me quick and say "how'd you do that?" But smile when you say that.Ê In fact, do you need a mute at all?ÊÊ -----Original Message----- From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur [mailto:sarapete@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:22 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: let's take a vote Hi all, And now for something completely different... I have a new music concert coming up next week and I have come across a classic new music composer characteristic. I have a piece that is not very difficult (at least at first glance) but contains plunger work down into the valve register (low C's to be specific). Should I: 1. Approach the composer or conductor and tactfully suggest some other options and simply explain the difficulties with said writing. Or, 2. Figure out a way to do it, i.e., attach plunger to stand, attach plunger to stick attached to leg (a la somebody's post from last week), have the second player work the plunger for me, etc., Or, 3. Both. Thanks for all your input, I will be taking tabs of all votes that come in whether they go to the list or to me personally. I will post the results before the first rehearsal which is on Sunday afternoon. Yours in good fun (but with a hint of seriousness...) Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:54:31 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: let's take a vote Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221134659.00b7d208@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:20 PM 2/21/2002 -0500, richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: How hard is it to sound like a plunger on an unmuted horn? ... How to do it? I do an exaggerated breath attack starting with the lips really bunched up and the cheeks completely collapsed. Basically it is a matter of doing the "wow" syllable in an exaggerated way. Notice that the plunger affects intonation as well as attack. If you lip a little to match that, you can come pretty close to a simple plunger effect. Of course you have to deliver the air in a way that simulates the attack envelope of a plunger. This doesn't give the barking, edgy sound that you can get by attacking a plunger hard, but composers who write for a plunger below the staff probably don't know what they are looking for anyway. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:09:03 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: FW: Eastern Trombone Workshop Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F8A0@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1BB0B.3A3FAB10" Whoops, operator error. -----Original Message----- Sure, 14 - 16 March at Ft Myer, in Washington DC near the Navy Yard, Pentagon, etc.Ê Here's an URL: http://www.army.mil/armyband/fr_trombone.htm If you don't have access I could try to copy a text file and paste it in, but try that link first, it has the schedule, directions for getting there, etc.Ê Great time, I highly recommend attending one. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Elliott Moxley [mailto:edm5970@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 1:28 PM To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Subject: Eastern Trombone Workshop Hi, could you please do us all a favor and post info on the ETW? Sorry if you have and I just missed it, but I don't think I always get all the posts. Thanks, Sue Moxley richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: Neither. That is, neither have him fix the music nor figure a mechanical way to do plunger work. How hard is it to sound like a plunger on an unmuted horn? 7th grade beginners do it every day. True, you won't sound like Alessi playing with a plunger, but you probably will sound like a plungered trombone. The composer had something in mind when he/she wrote that part. He failed to know the mechanical idiosyncracies of one particular instrument, i.e. that some trombone notes can be plunged and others cannot, but he had a sound in his head he was trying to get out. Let's not tell him he was stupid, let's try to find that sound. (Then tell him he was stupid - noh, don't bother, he'll either notice if it sounds bad or not notice, there's nothing you can do about either). By all means, explain the difficulty to him tactfully, and show him your best effort to get that tone, and see if it is close enough. Orchestral trombonists are so used to striving for that ringing Alessi tone they forget the trombone can have plenty of variety, as some of us demonstrate daily. Sorry for using Alessi as the example, fill in your own preference, I happened to notice he'll be at ETW in three weeks. How to do it? Shoot, I dunno, come sit in at rehearsal with me, I betcha I blow at least one note like that by accident, you can stop me quick and say "how'd you do that?" But smile when you say that. In fact, do you need a mute at all? -----Original Message----- From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur [mailto:sarapete@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:22 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: let's take a vote Hi all, And now for something completely different... I have a new music concert coming up next week and I have come across a classic new music composer characteristic. I have a piece that is not very difficult (at least at first glance) but contains plunger work down into the valve register (low C's to be specific). Should I: 1. Approach the composer or conductor and tactfully suggest some other options and simply explain the difficulties with said writing. Or, 2. Figure out a way to do it, i.e., attach plunger to stand, attach plunger to stick attached to leg (a la somebody's post from last week), have the second player work the plunger for me, etc., Or, 3. Both. Thanks for all your input, I will be taking tabs of all votes that come in whether they go to the list or to me personally. I will post the results before the first rehearsal which is on Sunday afternoon. Yours in good fun (but with a hint of seriousness...) Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:39:09 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: let's take a vote Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E7124A10@marshall.jmls.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > At 01:20 PM 2/21/2002 -0500, richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: > >How hard is it to sound like a plunger on an unmuted horn? ... > > > >How to do it? > And Craig Parmerlee answered: > I do an exaggerated breath attack starting with the lips really bunched up > > and the cheeks completely collapsed. > And don't forget that, in the second partial, you can bend and color the sound with your mouth much more easily than higher notes. Has anyone heard "General Speech" by Robert Erickson? The trombonist is supposed to deliver a speech by Douglas MacArthur through the trombone, playing mostly second-partial E, F, F#. Erickson intended the actual words to be intelligible by calling for different kinds of attack and forming various vowels with the mouth. And also remember the "Why?" in Berio's Sequenza V. I expect you could approximate plunger sounds by changing the position of your tongue. Try saying "oo ah oo ah oowah" without moving your lips. Close enough, I'm sure. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloging Librarian The John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > ---------- > From: Craig Parmerlee[SMTP:craig@acticalc.com] > Reply To: craig@acticalc.com > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:54 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: RE: let's take a vote > > Basically it is a matter of doing the > "wow" syllable in an exaggerated way. Notice that the plunger affects > intonation as well as attack. If you lip a little to match that, you can > come pretty close to a simple plunger effect. Of course you have to > deliver the air in a way that simulates the attack envelope of a plunger. > > This doesn't give the barking, edgy sound that you can get by attacking a > plunger hard, but composers who write for a plunger below the staff > probably don't know what they are looking for anyway. > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:46:51 -0500 From: "J L Jensen" To: "Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: let's take a vote Message-ID: <004801c1bb10$82b2a0a0$1c412c42@jljbone> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently the composer is ignorant about an instrument he has chosen to write for. You have an excellent opportunity to educate him. The writer might even learn to write for the trombone in a way that promotes the instrument. Probably will if you handle it right. Good for you, good for him, good for future performers of his music. If the composer fails to grasp his problem with this kind of writing then you have another issue to deal with. At that point he becomes an idiot. Hope not. Good luck, John Jensen ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:21 PM Subject: let's take a vote > Hi all, > > And now for something completely different... > > I have a new music concert coming up next week and I have come across a > classic new music composer characteristic. I have a piece that is not > very difficult (at least at first glance) but contains plunger work down > into the valve register (low C's to be specific). Should I: > > 1. Approach the composer or conductor and tactfully suggest some other > options and simply explain the difficulties with said writing. > > Or, > > 2. Figure out a way to do it, i.e., attach plunger to stand, attach > plunger to stick attached to leg (a la somebody's post from last week), > have the second player work the plunger for me, etc., > > Or, > > 3. Both. > > Thanks for all your input, I will be taking tabs of all votes that come > in whether they go to the list or to me personally. I will post the > results before the first rehearsal which is on Sunday afternoon. > > Yours in good fun (but with a hint of seriousness...) > > Peter Collins > Bass Trombone > Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:19:35 EST From: BITEensemble@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: greetings/for sale Message-ID: <46.22df64bb.29a6be67@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello gang, Wes Hopper here. I have been away for a little while, but I missed you guys/gals so here I am again. My first order of business is to sell a horn... For sale: Elkhart (1960) - Conn 30h $500 obo great shape, finish worn in the obvious places, no counterweight, slide is fast, but probably could use alignment This is a prototype horn -- not many out there. I has a great altissimo register (added free of charge ;-). Case is original and has seen better days, but it works. I use this horn for lead, but found a Martin "Urbie" I like better. Email me off the list for more info. and PICS. -Wes ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:28:47 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Thanks for dual bore slide responses Message-ID: <15e.92e02ca.29a6c08f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_15e.92e02ca.29a6c08f_boundary" Listers: Thanks for all the leads and emails for dual bore (.547/.562) slides for sale. I'm posting this message to say that I do not need one anymore so there is no need to send any more emails to me with notices of slides available to purchase. Matt Varho ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:56:41 -0700 From: James Scott To: jljbone@erols.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: let's take a vote Message-ID: <3C757B29.DA5EF74E@ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll agree with John's response. There are a lot of composers out there who haven't learned their craft. Of course, we could be talking about a young composer still studying, and in that case, I will be more patient and understanding. Still, I wish more composition programs in universities emphasized the study of orchestration. If you look at the great classical music of the 20th century - Stravinsky, Berg, Hindemith, etc. - you find difficult passages that challenge performers, but not something written for a 3- armed bass trombonist! I've read that Hindemith actually taught himself how to play each instrument of the orchestra well enough to be able to play his own Sonatas for each of them (at what quality of performance we can only guess). That showed a true dedication to understanding the mediums he was writing for. If you think of Stravinsky's big gliss in "The Firebird" ( high G in 6th to high C in 1st and back to F Sharp in 7th), that showed someone who had actually consulted a slide position chart. It's a difficult spot, but completely playable. Anyway, after all this ranting, I would suggest pointing out the problem with his orchestration to the composer and working with him to come up with a better alternative. He should be made aware of his mistake, but be given an oppotunity to fix it without a lot of fuss. Jim Scott J L Jensen wrote: > Apparently the composer is ignorant about an instrument he has chosen to > write for. You have an excellent opportunity to educate him. The writer > might even learn to write for the trombone in a way that promotes the > instrument. Probably will if you handle it right. > Good for you, good for him, good for future performers of his music. > If the composer fails to grasp his problem with this kind of writing then > you have another issue to deal with. > At that point he becomes an idiot. > Hope not. > Good luck, > John Jensen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:21 PM > Subject: let's take a vote > > > Hi all, > > > > And now for something completely different... > > > > I have a new music concert coming up next week and I have come across a > > classic new music composer characteristic. I have a piece that is not > > very difficult (at least at first glance) but contains plunger work down > > into the valve register (low C's to be specific). Should I: > > > > 1. Approach the composer or conductor and tactfully suggest some other > > options and simply explain the difficulties with said writing. > > > > Or, > > > > 2. Figure out a way to do it, i.e., attach plunger to stand, attach > > plunger to stick attached to leg (a la somebody's post from last week), > > have the second player work the plunger for me, etc., > > > > Or, > > > > 3. Both. > > > > Thanks for all your input, I will be taking tabs of all votes that come > > in whether they go to the list or to me personally. I will post the > > results before the first rehearsal which is on Sunday afternoon. > > > > Yours in good fun (but with a hint of seriousness...) > > > > Peter Collins > > Bass Trombone > > Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:12:38 -0500 From: James Gicking To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: mouthpiece materials (glass mouthpiece) Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 2/21/02 12:14 AM, TRBNTERRY at TRBNTERRY@webtv.net wrote: > Dr. Donald S. Reinhardt equipped all of his trumpet and trombone > students with clear plastic mouthpieces. This was a long time ago, maybe > 50 years. This was the only way to see what was going on with the > embouchre, and from there it was much easier to make corrections. > > Mike Terry > Funny you should mention clear plastic mouthpieces. My ebay disease just netted me a HI-FI copy of Teagarden/Hackett "Jazz Ultimate." Big photo on the cover and Teagarden is clearly (no pun) playing with an all-glass or all-plastic mouthpiece. I also have the Mosaic Teagarden set, and the photos there, on second glance, show the same thing. The things I've read about Teagarden suggest he was a tinkerer, I think he made some mouthpieces over the years. FWIW Jim Gicking ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:25:26 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: let's take a vote Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020221192027.01e95d90@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:56 PM 2/21/2002 -0700, James Scott wrote: I'll agree with John's response. There are a lot of composers out there who haven't learned their craft. ... I would suggest pointing out the problem with his orchestration to the composer and working with him to come up with a better alternative. He should be made aware of his mistake, but be given an oppotunity to fix it without a lot of fuss. Certainly, and do it privately so that the composer is not in a position where he/she will feel defensive. And keep in mind this low plunger business is a fairly esoteric technicality. The fact that the composer is not conversant with our valve systems doesn't mean that he/she is a poor composer. I doubt that there are many composers who know exactly how a high F# works on a bassoon, what is a difficult fingering sequence on a french horn, and exactly how long it takes to accomplish a certain tuning on tympani. I dare say if a person does know all those technicalities, maybe they have been thinking about the hardware more than the music. Later, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:57:18 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: let's take a vote Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I consider this response to be pretty much on-point. Composers can exercise a kind of common knowledge when doing conventional writing for instruments, i.e. regular notes. When specialized techniques come into play, though, the composer has to have a pretty solid idea of what's going on in the hardware department. Trombone music, second only to percussion music, utilizes a myriad of special techniques and notations, many of which many composers don't fully comprehend. The most common misconception is that of glissando ranges, but the trigger use is pretty little-known, too. Even though my composition lessons consist almost exclusively of review of technical errors and notational issues, my professor is quick to let me know if he believes a particular passage to uncharactistically tough or even impossible. I always ask him about special techniques for instruments if I can't find them in either the Kurt Stone or Andrew Stiller books. Anyway, the best way to address the composer of the work in question is the polite, friendly way. Maybe just tell him that you can't play exactly what he specifies. I know that if someone told me that I'd start working pretty fast on a compromise effect...like on the spot, I'd suggest the quick solution, then go to the manuscript and make the informed adjustment. I'll argue that in some styles, the composer HAS to be completely hardware-savvy. The music of Xenakis is tremendously challenging but still playable because it lies right at the cutting edge of what the instruments can do. Anyhow, I think all composers should spend a week with Stuart Dempster and James Fulkerson.... Rather rambly, Aaron Roth I'll agree with John's response. There are a lot of composers out there who haven't learned their craft. Of course, we could be talking about a young composer still studying, and in that case, I will be more patient and understanding. Still, I wish more composition programs in universities emphasized the study of orchestration. If you look at the great classical music of the 20th century - Stravinsky, Berg, Hindemith, etc. - you find difficult passages that challenge performers, but not something written for a 3- armed bass trombonist! I've read that Hindemith actually taught himself how to play each instrument of the orchestra well enough to be able to play his own Sonatas for each of them (at what quality of performance we can only guess). That showed a true dedication to understanding the mediums he was writing for. If you think of Stravinsky's big gliss in "The Firebird" ( high G in 6th to high C in 1st and back to F Sharp in 7th), that showed someone who had actually consulted a slide position chart. It's a difficult spot, but completely playable. Anyway, after all this ranting, I would suggest pointing out the problem with his orchestration to the composer and working with him to come up with a better alternative. He should be made aware of his mistake, but be given an oppotunity to fix it without a lot of fuss. Jim Scott _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:11:25 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: let's take a vote Message-ID: <004601c1bb91$bf02ac40$f091fc3e@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "James Scott" > I'll agree with John's response. There are a lot of composers out there who > haven't learned their craft. Of course, we could be talking about a young > composer still studying, and in that case, I will be more patient and > understanding. Still, I wish more composition programs in universities > emphasized the study of orchestration. I agree. In the past few years, I have been working as a part time instructor in jazz composition and arranging in three different colleges. Many of the students that come to me have already done some work in classical composition, yet most of them appear to have no idea about instrument ranges, let alone characteristics of any instrument. The first thing I tell my students is "If you want to be a good writer, go out there and learn to play a little on as many different instruments as you can". As a young self taught arranger, I guess this came easy to me. I was never happy with the instrument I was playing. I always had a curiosity of what it was like to play those other funny shaped horns. Before I discovered and stuck to the trombone, I had played professionally on every modern wind instrument bar the bassoon and French horn. The instruments I hadn't played, I made a point of reading up on. I understand the basic methods of fingering and characteristics of register for all the wind and string instruments. When ever I get rusty on anything, I never tire of re-reading Walter Piston's excellent book on "Orchestration". In my professional working life as a composer/arranger, I have learned that a chart sounds so much better in performance, even when written for the cream of the session world, if it is written so that it is easy to play. It saves time and patience when you don't have to fix things during the session. That doesn't mean however that the chart should be uninteresting to play. Unless there has been a fussy producer, the recording sessions that I have written for and directed have usually needed only one run through per chart to get a balance before the red light goes on. Finally, when you are writing a specially commissioned solo virtuoso piece, always consult with the performer if you think any part of it might be tricky to perform. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:33:22 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: <8guion@jmls.edu>, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: let's take a vote Message-ID: <007701c1bb9d$2fc9d2e0$f091fc3e@homel29g9mgyk9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> Try saying "oo ah oo ah oowah" without moving your lips. That's much easier to do in the summer time when young ladies are strolling around in mini-skirts, T-shits and bare midriff. (Female subscribers can make up your own fantasy). A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:56:49 +0000 From: silversonic@att.net To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu (Trombone List) Cc: chris@trombone.org, bassbone@aol.com Subject: Rochester Trombone Circus 2002 Message-ID: <20020222135650.YUYD11926.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Hello All: I have received a large number of inquiries about Rochester Trombone Circus over the past month. FINALLY, I feel that the event has taken a firm enough shape that I'm passing along the following. Below is the very latest info on Rochester Trombone Circus 2002. Advance sale tickets are available at all Rochester Area Wegman's stores, as well as by returning a Trombone Circus registration form to The Harley School. If you require ANY information regarding the Circus, please e-mail me off of th list and I can forward the printed matter to you electronically... OR via "snail- mail". I have information sheets, posters, registration forms and lodging info. Here's hoping that you'll join us for an AWESOME day full of trombone activity! Peace, Tom Sousa -- Rochester Trombone Circus Committee, Co-Chair _________________________________________________________ Trombone Circus 2002 When: Saturday, March 23, 2002 Workshop/Clinic----> 11:30am-5:00pm(doors open at 11:00) 15-Minute Trombone Lessons/Coachings ----> 5:00-6:30pm (provided by area “Artist Educators”) Evening Jazz Concert----> 8:00-10:00pm Where: The Harley School 1981 Clover Street Rochester, NY 14618 Guest Artists: Ralph Sauer, Principal Trombone, Los Angeles Philharmonic Steve Turré, Jazz Artist/Trombonist for Saturday Night Live Band Fred Wesley, Funk & Jazz Artist/ Trombonist for James Brown ______________________________________________________ Workshop/Clinic - FREE OF CHARGE Workshop/Clinic Highlights include: •Performance/Clinics by Sauer, Turré and Wesley •Performances by Trombone Choirs from Eastman, Cleveland Institute of Music and Ithaca College •Break-Out Sessions covering a wide array of topics •Instrument and Music Vendor Displays •Mass Trombone Choir, group warm-ups and readings (featuring a premiere performance of Fred Wesley’s work, composed for Circus 2002) •Free Lessons/Coachings Make sure to bring your trombone, and a music stand ______________________________________________________ An Evening Concert of Jazz 8:00 PM Steve Turré, Fred Wesley and the Bob Stata Quartet along with the Eastman School’s Bionic Bones Jazz Trombone Choir (This concert will include performance of original "J & Kai charts, which are housed at Eastman!) Concert Tickets: (payable to: The Commission Project--Trombone Circus) $7.00 Students $15.00 Adults $25.00 Premium Seats (incl. "preferred seating and reception after the concert) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:52:56 -0000 From: "Steve Cordingley" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: let's take a vote Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come on guys. We all acknowledge that the Trombone is fiendishly difficult to learn and play but my old man claims that the French Horn is more difficult and my daughter the Cello, etc. etc. Most choose to work on a single instrument because it takes that kind of focus to do it and do it well. Yet we probably all know that ripple of pleasure and fear that comes when we see/hear someone doing it so much better than we do and then go on to do it better ourselves. It doesn't seem reasonable to expect a fellow musician (composer) to grasp everything there is to know about every instrument when we can't truly claim do that for our own specialisations. And anyway, just how far ahead of the envelope can he or she go before it becomes an invalid move? Isn't Stravinsky supposed to have stated that there was no way The Rite Of Spring could be written down? If it's true, it seems plausible that what we have today is an approximation of what the great man intended. I guess for me, it's as much about a kind of accidental development pushed for by others as it is the consistent hard work of the practitioners on any one instrument that keeps the whole thing moving forward. And when that stops, we should all chuck our trombones, horns, cellos and wotnot in the river because it will all become exceedingly dull and on the whole, I'd rather have a beer. STEVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Adrian Drover Sent: 22 February 2002 11:11 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: let's take a vote From: "James Scott" > I'll agree with John's response. There are a lot of composers out there who > haven't learned their craft. Of course, we could be talking about a young > composer still studying, and in that case, I will be more patient and > understanding. Still, I wish more composition programs in universities > emphasized the study of orchestration. I agree. In the past few years, I have been working as a part time instructor in jazz composition and arranging in three different colleges. Many of the students that come to me have already done some work in classical composition, yet most of them appear to have no idea about instrument ranges, let alone characteristics of any instrument. The first thing I tell my students is "If you want to be a good writer, go out there and learn to play a little on as many different instruments as you can". As a young self taught arranger, I guess this came easy to me. I was never happy with the instrument I was playing. I always had a curiosity of what it was like to play those other funny shaped horns. Before I discovered and stuck to the trombone, I had played professionally on every modern wind instrument bar the bassoon and French horn. The instruments I hadn't played, I made a point of reading up on. I understand the basic methods of fingering and characteristics of register for all the wind and string instruments. When ever I get rusty on anything, I never tire of re-reading Walter Piston's excellent book on "Orchestration". In my professional working life as a composer/arranger, I have learned that a chart sounds so much better in performance, even when written for the cream of the session world, if it is written so that it is easy to play. It saves time and patience when you don't have to fix things during the session. That doesn't mean however that the chart should be uninteresting to play. Unless there has been a fussy producer, the recording sessions that I have written for and directed have usually needed only one run through per chart to get a balance before the red light goes on. Finally, when you are writing a specially commissioned solo virtuoso piece, always consult with the performer if you think any part of it might be tricky to perform. A. Adrian Drover ADIOS, Scotland www.adios.co.uk Personal email: adrian@adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:40:24 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: let's take a vote Message-ID: <20020222164024.96803.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Adrian Drover wrote: > In my professional working life as a composer/arranger, I > have learned that > a chart sounds so much better in performance, even when > written for the > cream of the session world, if it is written so that it > is easy to play. It > saves time and patience when you don't have to fix things > during the > session. That doesn't mean however that the chart should > be uninteresting > to play. Absolutely! I've had the pleasure over the last couple of weeks of playing for a young big band composer named Ayn Inserto. She studied with Bob Brookmeyer at New England Conservatory, and he was guest soloist on a gig with her band last week (marvelous...incredibly nice man, and he's playing great). She has written several pieces on commission from high school jazz bands, and they are great - melodic but harmonically complex, interesting but sight-readable for good players, challenging but not unplayable for young players. My sense is that the limitations of the commission forced her to think in terms of playability, and the charts are that much better for it. If anyone is interested I can put you in touch with her. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2308--